January 27, 2020

"For some Democrats, it’s a scenario they say they’ve dreaded and feared: waking up to the reality that the 78-year-old Vermont senator, an independent who has reshaped party policy and promised to bring a revolution to Washington, has a real shot..."

"... at capturing the nomination. For the Sanders campaign, it’s been part rallying cry, part admonition: At events across Iowa this weekend, the candidate and his top surrogates repeatedly warned of a coming fight with forces that would try to stop them, at points celebrating the clash, at points cautioning supporters to stay positive.... 'In these last eight days, things are gonna get crazy,' Ocasio-Cortez said on Sunday. 'I don't even know what's gonna happen. And that's why we've gotta stay focused and committed as possible. And let's make it joyous, y'all... Let's make it joyous.'... Michael Moore... told supporters, 'The knives are out. The rich woke up this morning, and they read these articles and they're like, "Oh no, oh no, what are we going to do?" So we'll see what they're going to do.'... The 11 candidates in the race have largely declined to attack Sanders directly...."

From BuzzFeedNews.

ADDED: Here's how the new Iowa polls look today, with Bernie spiking. Look at that, and then answer this:

In this last week, will we see the other candidates attack Bernie directly?
 
pollcode.com free polls

207 comments:

1 – 200 of 207   Newer›   Newest»
Heartless Aztec said...

Bernie for the win!

Shouting Thomas said...

Just what we need... a second Bolshevik revolution.

Lurker21 said...

'In these last eight days, things are gonna get crazy,' Ocasio-Cortez

And that's coming from somebody who really knows crazy.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The indirect attacks will become more obviously against Bernie.

Bernie didn't hang himself. Just wanted to get that on the record, beforehand.

gilbar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gilbar said...

just like the Democrat party KNEW, All Along, that Trump wasn't going to be removed;
and so, it was all for show

the Democrat party KNOWS, All Along, that Trump is going to be reelected;
and so, this election is all for show

WHY anger the Bernie Bros? Might need them in 2024

Leland said...

The other outsiders will continue to stay on message, but the careerists will attack Bernie. Personally, I believe the socialist threat of Bernie Sanders is real and I'm not even interested in games to help him win under the guise he is easier to beat in the general.

Richard Fagin said...

If we're at all lucky, a Bernie/Trump match will have a similar result to the recent Corbyn/Johnson match in Britain: a wipeout for the Commie/racist/misogynist/infanticide-promoting/eco-wacko criminal enterprise masquerading as a political party. Although it's been said that cockroaches will survive the H-bomb, let's hope that doesn't apply to the electoral version. The Dems seem to have become that bad.

stevew said...

I voted that at least some will attack Bernie, specifically the some that are in striking distance of him in the polls.

gilbar said...

Bernie's reasons for becoming President

A) President Trump is TOO OLD... We need someone OLDER
B) The Economy is doing Great... We need to STOP THAT!
C) The Russians have influence.. We need to INCREASE THAT INFLUENCE!
D) Millions of aliens are here.. LETS MAKE THAT HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS!

hawkeyedjb said...

Glenn Reynolds like to say how awful our current political class is. I thought it couldn't get worse than Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump. But now we may get an actual communist as nominee of a major political party. Never, never think "It can't get any worse."

AllenS said...

Not if the super delegates have anything to say about it. Sorry, Bernie, but not 4 years ago, and not today.

henry said...

could be worse. they could nominate Warren.

AllenS said...

Iowa voters in the Democrat primary, are mostly college students. After New Hampshire, the voters are not so Socialist in nature.

David Begley said...

When I vote, I almost always end up picking the most popular choice.

Popular!

gilbar said...

AllenS said...
Iowa voters in the Democrat primary, are mostly college students.


ummm, No. Iowa Caucus goers are almost completely the elderly
When i lived in Ames (Iowa State University), students at THOSE Caucuses (Cauci?) were mostly the elderly.

Here in Fayette county? Even More Elderly

rehajm said...

could be worse. they could nominate Warren

We had a client who went to dinner with Warren Buffett a few months ago. Speaking of the Democrats their biggest fear was that Warren would win...

Automatic_Wing said...

And it's going to be harder for the DNC to screw him out of the nomination this time. Everyone is wise to their shenanigans now.

rehajm said...

It’s just Iowa remember. The race isn’t coming down to IA and NH. Nit this cycle. Not when there’s this many candidates with this much money to burn...and an entitled sociopath waiting in the wings and still pulling the strings.

Lincolntf said...

It wouldn't hurt any of the candidates below the Buttigieg line to directly attack Bernie. Will Biden and Warren go after him directly? I don't know, I think Hillary will do it for them.

Jersey Fled said...

They are not going to let Bernie win the nomination. For the second time in a row. Then we'll have to see what the Bernie Bros do - fall in line behind Biden or just stay home.

BTW, Biden can't beat Trump. If you thought mailgate was tough on Clinton, wait till you see Hunter-Gate once Biden is nominated.

Aunty Trump said...

I think it’s a fever that needs to break. As noted upthread, Corbyn/BoJo style.

rehajm said...

Everyone is wise to their shenanigans now

Kavanaugh and impeachment. They are rather enjoying producing and performing these fables. I’m sure the trilogy’s summer blockbuster is in the can already...

Lurker21 said...

Timing is everything. If the other candidates and the media had known Bernie was going to be doing this well in the polls, they would have gone after him weeks ago, and his numbers would have sunk by now. Instead, after the also-rans dropped out, it was Liz Warren who took the heat. She sinks and Bernie rises. Right on time for the beginning of the primaries and caucuses. If Sanders gets the nomination, he ought to thank Warren for the help.

Bernie benefits from ambivalence about the old left. In a lot of ways they were awful, but they can appear saner than the current left. A Democrat who isn't always talking about race, gender and sexual preferences can look refreshing by contrast. And if every Democrat gets called a Communist, the word gets worn out. But it would be a mistake to elect Bernie.

J. Farmer said...

I voted for indirect attacks, but I may have been influenced, as I was just reading 'They let him get away with murder': Dems tormented over how to stop Bernie on Politico before popping over here.

My favorite line: "Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, who recently shifted his support from Steve Bullock to Biden, argued that Sanders would harm down-ballot Democrats in battleground districts." Steve Bullock? Clearly Mr. Miller has his finger on the pulse of America.

This certainly has echoes of the RNC assuring us how doomed the party would be if Donald Trump secured the nomination. Gee, it's as if professional political prognosticators don't know everything.

tim maguire said...

gilbar said...
just like the Democrat party KNEW, All Along, that Trump wasn't going to be removed;
and so, it was all for show

the Democrat party KNOWS, All Along, that Trump is going to be reelected;


From a palace intrigue perspective, the best thing the Democrats could do is nominate Bernie. If you accept that Trump will win, then nominating Bernie creates a no-lose situation.

If Sanders loses big as expected, the DNC power brokers can purge the crazies and restore their control of the party. If Sanders somehow squeaks out a victory, he won't have a power base, just a soapbox, and they can get all the goodies they want just by throwing him a bone now and then and otherwise ignoring him. Then, when his presidency turns out to be a disaster and they take a shellacking in 2024, they can purge all the crazies and restore their control of the party.

Skookum John said...

A vote for Bread Line Bernie is a vote to eat your pets by the light of a candle.

Bruce Hayden said...

If his proposals aren’t bad enough, guaranteeing a stock market crash, major recession, and a massive increase in unemployment, there is also apparently a huge trove of Crazy Bernie TV footage from his time in local politics, before moving to DC. he will likely be very easy fot Trump to run against. he is old, and really really, crazy. But Biden is very possibly, if possible, even More vulnerable. He isn’t all there, and his senility seems to be worsening, and now much of the country is now exposed to his endemic corruption. It has long been known in DC and in political circles, that he may have been the most corrupt politician in DC, after Crooked Hillary, of course. But now the Trump impeachment has been permanently tied to Biden’s corruption by Adam Schifty picking the Ukrainian phone call as the basis of his impeachment. I think that it is likely that Trump could convince a majority of legal voters in this country that we can’t afford either of these two - both are old and crazy. Biden is senile and Bernie is really crazy, and, as a good socialist, now owns three nice houses. Which is probably why so much of the Dem establishment is behind charisma impaired Fauxhauntis Warren, with her tin ear and her own crazy ideas and corruption. She at least seems healthy enough for the job, a little lying that got her affirmative action preferences and some questionable scholarship, is probable little worse than is found with many Dem politicians. except that no one likes her, except, apparently her husband, who seems willing to cater to her craziness. I almost envision him patting her on the head, while telling her that her proposals to bankrupt the country are just fine.

jeremyabrams said...

A Bernie spike that lasts into the early primaries will undermine any nominee who isn't Bernie in the general. The Bernie Bros just won't accept a second loss, even if it's fair and square, especially after the CNN/establishment media/Hillary attempted takedown of last week. His supporters are primed to be aggrieved, and if he spends some time actually in first place, they won't turn out for Biden or anyone else.

Wince said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fernandistein said...

Vote Barney Saunders!

Bruce Hayden said...

“Steve Bullock? Clearly Mr. Miller has his finger on the pulse of America.”

In Bullock’s defense, he is a Democrat who is repeatedly re-elected with good margins in a state that Trump is likely win by at least 10 points running against Biden, Sanders, or Warren. I would expect him to have far more appeal across middle America and the rest of flyover country than those three leading candidates from the deep blue northeast. While there is a lot of justifiable hate against the state’s senior Senator, there was almost none against Bullock in the recent election where both were re-elected. The consensus is that while he is a Democrat he isn’t one of the bad Democrats like they have in DC or in the deep blue portions of the country. And like Tester is, who brought in huge amounts of out of state money to buy reelection by swamping the airways with his advertising.

Wince said...

They will rely on the same backroom party machinery that keeps them from attacking Biden on corruption to "take care" of Bernie for them.

Certainly not the candidates that have been running for 2024 anyway, both still in and out of the race. A Bernie loss to Trump might even set them up as the more moderate successor.

AllenS said...

gilbar, are you saying that it will be the elderly that vote for Socialist Bernie?

Amadeus 48 said...

Who knows what they will do?? They are Democrats. They are like wild animals or children.

J. Farmer said...

Has anyone yet figured out how, if Bernie wins, he'd manage to get his domestic agenda through Congress? I'm almost ready to root for Bernie to take the whole thing just for the schadenfreude of it all. This country's already screwed six ways to Sunday. Might as well go out with a bang instead of a whimper.

Temujin said...

From Michael Moore: "And let's make it joyous, y'all... Let's make it joyous.'... Michael Moore... told supporters, 'The knives are out. The rich woke up this morning, and they read these articles and they're like, "Oh no, oh no, what are we going to do?" So we'll see what they're going to do.'...

If there's one thing socialists/communists are good at, it's being joyous about destruction and killing people.

Imagine how far the Democrat Party has become when an old Communist is leading the charge, flanked by AOC and Michael Moore. Can it get any more delicious?

Can you imagine turning this country's economy over to this crew?

Tommy Duncan said...

"I don't even know what's gonna happen."

Even AOC doesn't know what's going to happen. How crazy is that? She knows everything.

Amadeus 48 said...

This Iowa caucus thing has proved to be so decisive over the years. Just like the New Hampshire primary. Usually, they identify someone who isn’t going to be the nominee.

Go at it folks. You are all losers.

MadisonMan said...

Bernie at least isn't obviously corrupt like Biden. I would rather have Sanders than Biden. Buttigieg just doesn't have the experience needed. Warren and Klobuchar would be nowhere if they weren't female (and Warren is way too scoldy; I don't know anything about Klobuchar, maybe she's better than Bernie?)

Perhaps this Sanders thing might wake up the Democratic Party to the realization of just how damaging the Clinton/Obama way of doing things was to their brand.

Amadeus 48 said...

I think AOC was the joy girl. Pelosi is going to have to do something about her.

Kalli Davis said...

It's not every day that an established, 200 old party, nominates a full throated Communist for PResident

Tank said...

J. Farmer said...
Has anyone yet figured out how, if Bernie wins, he'd manage to get his domestic agenda through Congress? I'm almost ready to root for Bernie to take the whole thing just for the schadenfreude of it all. This country's already screwed six ways to Sunday. Might as well go out with a bang instead of a whimper


Dear Farmer,

Tank is already pretty old. Please wait until I am gone to blow up the country. Thank you.

Tank

Rumpletweezer said...

The question for Democrats is: Do you hate Trump so much that you're willing to vote for an avowed Socialist?

Mr Wibble said...

Never, never think "It can't get any worse."



"Ah!" God says. "A challenge."

rehajm said...

As he tells it and as his voting record in Congress tells it, he’s not even a member of the Democratic party.

AllenS said...

J. Farmer said...
This country's already screwed six ways to Sunday. Might as well go out with a bang instead of a whimper

Things are going pretty good around here, and everyone that I know is happy about it. As far as that bang you'll hear, it will be people like me and my friends shooting people trying to ruin things.

narciso said...

he's plenty corrupt, as Schweitzer has pointed out, does he have a mass movement, like lopez obrador's Morena party, that's yet to be seen,

Francisco D said...

From my 10 years in Eastern Iowa, it seems that the Democrat caucus goers are people in college (Ames, Iowa City) and union (Davenport, Des Moines, Dubuque) towns. Some are students, but most are union folks, university affiliated, white collar liberals and seniors with time on their hands.

They mostly watch PBS and listen to NPR because they see themselves as intellectually sophisticated and morally centered "nice" people. In my experience, a lot of them are nice people. Unfortunately they drank the Democrat Kool-Aid a long time ago and think that Republicans are greedy, uneducated farmers and White supremacists.

However, it would be interesting if there is an influx of college student in the Iowa caucuses thanks to the efforts of political organizers. That would give it to Bernie in a cake walk. The results of the caucus really depend on the persuasive appeal of organizers. He has those people.

narciso said...

I used to listen to npr, in the 90s, on the weekends, trying to figure out what was the point,

Mr Wibble said...

The political class brought this on themselves. Their arrogance, stupidity, and incompetence created a strong disdain by the rest of the country for the nitwits in DC and to a lesser extent in the state capitols.

Obama's decision to push the party hard left at the cost of the moderate Dems gutted the party and left it a mixture of the old guard deep-blue dems, and the young activist class who aren't willing to compromise and aren't willing to wait their turn. Meanwhile, the Dem money is increasingly young tech and finance folks who identify more with the activists. The blue-collar union workers who made up much of the Dem rank-and-file for generations are being discarded, and Trump was there to sweep them up.

On the right, the alliance between libertarians and social conservatives is dead with the end of the Cold War. There might have been some attempt to paper over fractures back after 9/11, but those fractures have grown too great, IMHO, to mend.

Gahrie said...

I still don't understand why they allow Sanders to run for the Democratic nomination.

rhhardin said...

The rich are the ones who invest the extra dollar they make rather than consuming it. So it's really efficient to have extra money in the hands of the rich. They don't spend it on themselves but on something efficient for the economy to do.

You can lure regular people to do the same thing by encouraging savings for retirement.

The activist base would spend in on themselves, which is what they want. Economy collapses, elections cancelled.

Gahrie said...

I think AOC was the joy girl. Pelosi is going to have to do something about her.

She's going to lose her seat to redistricting.

Krumhorn said...

Is anyone still seriously believing the polls??

- Krumhorn

rhhardin said...

The rich in socialist nations invest in offshore bank accounts. No property rights in their own country that you can count on.

Narayanan said...

Why can't #Resistance ? Continue and impeach Sanders ... Explain and discuss.

Robert Cook said...

If the Dems truly want nothing more than to get Trump out of office, they should join in unison behind the candidate who offers the greatest challenge to Trump. So far, polls indicate this is Sanders. Therefore, Dem attacks on Sanders clear signal that the Dems do not actually see defeating Trump as their primary objective. This is because the Dem party has sold itself to the corporate parasites who are Washington's only true constituents.

Krumhorn said...


The rich are the ones who invest the extra dollar they make rather than consuming it. So it's really efficient to have extra money in the hands of the rich. They don't spend it on themselves but on something efficient for the economy to do.

You can lure regular people to do the same thing by encouraging savings for retirement.

The activist base would spend in on themselves, which is what they want. Economy collapses, elections cancelled


Accurate! And cogently stated. While I voted for Mittens, I was furious that he never made this argument.

- Krumhorn

Bay Area Guy said...

Run, Bernie, Run!

Because if history has taught us anything it's the joys and prosperity of a Socialist State!

narciso said...

recall his pixieish comm director, locked her accounts down, because she didn't want any questions about their bane like organizers in south Carolina and iowa,

Robert Cook said...

For the record, I don't think that Sanders, even if were to win the election, will be able (and may not even try) to get most or any of his promised policy changes implemented.

JML said...

Bernie’s corruption is not as obvious or as deep as Biden’s. I feel so much better.

Todd said...

Skookum John said...

A vote for Bread Line Bernie is a vote to eat your pets by the light of a candle.

1/27/20, 7:37 AM


Wait, what? There will still be candles?!?

If nothing else, those crazy cat ladies won't look so crazy then. They will just have been doing prudent food stockpiling for the future...

TreeJoe said...

The idea Bernie hasn't been attacked directly...

The DNC handed over it's operational authority to the Clinton campaign and actively subverted Bernie in 2016. The only reason we know this is because the "Russians" supposedly hacked their servers + Clinton's campaign manager e-mail. An unknown person or group - with no evidence this person was linked to the russian government - then leaked it to Wikileaks. Wikileaks then controlled the leak.

The irony is this:
- The DNC ignored and violated it's own charter to help one candidate over another
- The DNC lied about it
- An apparent foreign adversary who hacked their servers is the only reason we ever found out
- The DNC did not engage the FBI or allow the FBI direct access to their servers. They directed the FBI to a 3rd party firm the DNC engaged. Those servers were never handed over by the DNC to the 3rd party or the FBI, only copied and re-copied.

As a minor note: In a chain of evidence approach, the original servers would be locked down. Then a copy would be made. Then a copy-of-the-copy would be made to work off of while the original servers and first copy are protected. Given the DNC, nor Crowdstrike, nor FBI appeared to have done this.....they don't appear to be actually trying to prove or disprove anything.

Todd said...

jeremyabrams said...

A Bernie spike that lasts into the early primaries will undermine any nominee who isn't Bernie in the general. The Bernie Bros just won't accept a second loss, even if it's fair and square, especially after the CNN/establishment media/Hillary attempted takedown of last week. His supporters are primed to be aggrieved, and if he spends some time actually in first place, they won't turn out for Biden or anyone else.

1/27/20, 7:43 AM


That might not be a bad thing, in the end. Bernie LOOKS like he has a real shot and he gets crushed in the general. The Burnie Bros go nuclear and pull a BLM on all the socialist city strong-holds (the only places they feel safe enough to do it). Seattle burns, SF burns, etc. Clears out the trash and allows it all to be rebuilt from the ground up OR they burn them just enough to finish shoving their financials over the edge and a few of them are forced to declare bankruptcy. They beg for Fed money and Trump says yes but with so many strings attached to end much of the crazy. Could work out...

Krumhorn said...

This is because the Dem party has sold itself to the corporate parasites who are Washington's only true constituents.

I don’t believe that Bernie presents much of a challenge to Trump. He’s a shouty, angry, unfunny Old Jewish Socialist who is a caricature of an Old Jewish Socialist. However, the crony capitalism and rent-seeking is invidious and coming from all sides. It’s the Deep State.

- Krumhorn

Michael K said...

I tend to agree with tim mmaguire. If Bernie does get the nomination, the contest for VP will get really hot.

Bernie would make William Henry Harrison the second shortest presidential term.

Arkancide would be immortalized in his bio.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

rumpletweezer: The question for Democrats is: Do you hate Trump so much that you're willing to vote for an avowed Socialist?

Cook: Dem attacks on Sanders clear signal that the Dems do not actually see defeating Trump as their primary objective. This is because the Dem party has sold itself to the corporate parasites who are Washington's only true constituents.

I think you're right about that, Cookie, which is a shame, because I was kinda looking forward to some "the conservative case for Bernie Sanders" articles from National Review, The Bulwark, and the house conservatives at NYT and WaPo.

narciso said...

well we see the example of Corbyn's recent immolation as a warning sign,

Michael K said...


Blogger Robert Cook said...

For the record, I don't think that Sanders, even if were to win the election, will be able (and may not even try) to get most or any of his promised policy changes implemented.


Tough to get much accomplished from the grave, even in Arlington. It's all about who his VP is.

tcrosse said...

The DNC handed over it's operational authority to the Clinton campaign and actively subverted Bernie in 2016. The only reason we know this is because the "Russians" supposedly hacked their servers + Clinton's campaign manager e-mail.

We also know this because Donna Brazile wrote all about it

J. Farmer said...

@AllenS:

Things are going pretty good around here, and everyone that I know is happy about it. As far as that bang you'll hear, it will be people like me and my friends shooting people trying to ruin things.

Sorry, I couldn't hear you I was laughing too hard. What now? Oh right, you're going to shoot "people trying to ruin things," whatever that means. A couple of things. First, econometrics only tells you so much about the overall health of a society. Second, once demographics do their work on Texas and Florida (as it has done in California and more recently Virginia), the fact that "things are going pretty good around here" won't amount to a hill of beans. You might even say, it's immigration, stupid.

AllenS said...

Even it Crazy Bernie does not get the nomination, he'll just shrug his shoulders, and buy another house, and it won't be in Cuba.

gilbar said...

AllenS said...
gilbar, are you saying that it will be the elderly that vote for Socialist Bernie?


We'll see soon, if those polls have anything to do with reality
All i know, is past caucuses (cauci?) that i've been exposed to.

But Yeah! Here in iowa, there are PLENTY of geriatric geezers that are FULL BLOODED COMMIES

So far, here in Fayette county; EVERY SINGLE canvasser that has knocked on my door has been:
A) over 60
B) for a socialist

Now, That consists of ONE old guy, that was for Lizzy Warren; but still.

rcocean said...

People aren't bringing up the fact that Bernie got 49% in Iowa in 2016, and he won NH in 2016 with 60% of the vote. Yet, today he's not getting anywhere near these numbers.

Plus, Bernie got creamed in the SC and that's exactly what will happen in 2020. Does anyone think he's going to beat Biden one on one? Where are his votes going to come from?

Levi Starks said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JAORE said...

The rich in socialist nations invest in offshore bank accounts. No property rights in their own country that you can count on.

A much under appreciated reason for the financial success of Americans.

Levi Starks said...

Bernie and Joe really need to team up.
Between them they have over 150 years of experience.

gilbar said...

oh, and (to me), elderly means: older than me (57)
College Age means: WAY too young to date (57/2+7)

There just are NOT that many college age people in iowa; and those are, are in Johnson and Story counties
(and when i lived in Story (until 2018), the caucuses (cauci?) were mostly 50-70 year olds THERE!)

I have Friends in Ames that THINK that they are college aged... They're ALL over 40

gilbar said...

rcocean said...
People aren't bringing up the fact that Bernie got 49%


Because of Liarawatha. If you add up the Socialist votes (Bernie AND LIZ)
you're looking at 47% or so

MadisonMan said...

I would have a lot more sympathy for Bernie -- or, indeed, any Democrat -- if they would come out hard and loud against the invidious corruption that is Biden (and, by extension, Clinton and Obama) personified. That might even get them my vote.

mikee said...

The idea that Democrats fear the man, Bernie, as a candidate is real.
The idea that Democrats fear his policy preferences for totalitarian socialism, is laughable.

The ONLY problem the Democrat Party has with Bernie is that he isn't the one who's supposed to be in charge of the totalitarianism, it's supposed to be the rest of them. They think he won't share the spoils of victory, which is a valid worry, as he is a totalitarian socialist.

tim maguire said...

One reasons for the ascendancy of Sanders is the failure of our educational institutions. It's not enough to say, "he's a socialist!" as, to a growing number of people, socialism means free stuff and who's not for free stuff?

People need to be educated on why "he's a socialist!" is an epithet.

Aunty Trump said...

The left has become a top-bottom against the middle coalition worldwide, which is why it is so hard for them to do real class warfare. It’s largely internecine.

https://twitter.com/helloitsthao/status/1221805274798813185

BTW, you should probably follow that girl.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Last time I checked - Michael Moore and Bernie Sanders ARE BOTH RICH.

Aunty Trump said...

"Dem party has sold itself to the corporate parasites who are Washington's only true constituents.”

The Democrats are a machine that gets huge amounts of money from selling indulgences to the very rich. Michael Moore is pretty rich, but the very rich are their bread and butter. Sanders doesn’t need them.

Drago said...

MadisonMan: "I would have a lot more sympathy for Bernie -- or, indeed, any Democrat -- if they would come out hard and loud against the invidious corruption that is Biden (and, by extension, Clinton and Obama) personified. That might even get them my vote."

Indeed.

Unfortunately, as with 2016 re: Hillary emails (where Hillary put her hand up Bernies back and made him say the emails should not be discussed) we find ourselves in 2020 where Bernie has ALREADY taken back what little criticism of Biden's corruption that he (Sanders) had mentioned.

This is why there are some that keep saying deep down, Bernie doesn't really want to run hard enough to win. Just hard enough to keep campaign donations coming in and living a comfortable lifestyle without any real governing responsibility.

It's hard to argue against that take when we see Bernie studiously avoiding the most salient and powerful establishment corruption issues available against his opponents.

gilbar said...

J Farmer pointed out, that...
You might even say, it's immigration, stupid.


remember back in the '90's? When our national population was about 270 million?
remember back then, how many children we were having? SO MANY, that it was 2.2 per woman!

SO, now; we;re at 330 million or so? If we were breeding at a level that barely maintained population; how come our population is 25% higher?
You might even say, it's immigration, stupid.

n.n said...

the joys and prosperity of a Socialist State

It's a suboptimal solution to reconciliation of individual rights with finitely available and accessible resources at best. A threat to human and civil rights at worst. That said, religious/moral philosophy for people capable of self-moderation. Competing interests to mitigate progress of others.

pacwest said...

I think the US is doomed to try some sort of Marxist experiment in the near future due to the educational indoctrination in our schools. I also believe the Republic is strong enough to survive it. Four years of Trump followed by four years of Bernie would provide a pretty stark contrast to chose from, ideology wise, and might even be best in the long run. Not that I think that is what is going to happen this election. Creeping socialism is the biggest threat. Better Bernie than Warren or Obama lite (Buttigeig). Biden is a non-entity. His VP pick is who would be running for President.

Drago said...

As predicted, Michelle Obama wins the Grammy for Best Spoken Word.......you know, reading her book!

This is the standard Grammy prize given to whichever lefty is currently angling for elective office and is most desired by the democrat establishment.

Brokered convention = ----> Michelle Obama as the candidate.

Nonapod said...

The problem for the DNC is that if they sabatage Bernie again in favor of Biden they may end up losing millions of Bernie voters. But if they don't sabatage Bernie and he ends up winning, they'll (most likely) get slaghtered in the general election. But if Biden legitimately wins the nomination, many Bernies supporters may not believe that there was no manipulations and they could still end up losing a lot of votes in the general. It's sort of a lose-lose-lose situation.

Big Mike said...

Mr. Wibble’s analysis at 8:15 is pretty accurate. I note that Nancy Pelosi’s deliberate decision to force her Blue Dog caucus to vote in lockstep with the extreme leftists regarding impeachment is going to cost many of them their seats in November. It seems likely that she and the billionaires who bankroll the Democrats (and call the shots) have decided that a party that is ideologically pure beats a party that has a majority in the House.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The Democrat's fear that Bernie might be the candidate, or that Biden will be the candidate is what is fueling their insane lust to Impeach Trump. The rest of the field are also just as bad

They know that Bernie won't win in the General Election because the normal people in America do not want socialism. He and his Bernie Bros are just to radical and divisive. Biden won't win either because he is a doddering corrupt old fool who inspires no one's passion to vote for him.

Trump as the Candidate is a sure winner. Ergo....they must try to knee cap him before the election and create this Impeachment Circus show.

The Democrats are desperate and dangerous. Desperate people will do ANYTHING to keep power.

gilbar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Todd said...

J. Farmer said...

Sorry, I couldn't hear you I was laughing too hard. What now? Oh right, you're going to shoot "people trying to ruin things," whatever that means. A couple of things. First, econometrics only tells you so much about the overall health of a society. Second, once demographics do their work on Texas and Florida (as it has done in California and more recently Virginia), the fact that "things are going pretty good around here" won't amount to a hill of beans. You might even say, it's immigration, stupid.

1/27/20, 8:44 AM


Why is it that you seem so "pleased" to contemplate the possible end of this experiment call America? It is that awful here? Compared to where? Sure there are issues but again where is better for the majority? What other country has bothered to try an codify the natural rights of its citizens? What other country gets so worked up analyzing its own shortfalls? What other country WANTS to be better than is currently is? Why do so many prefer to burn this to the ground instead of going to these other "better" countries?

Mr Wibble said...

Mr. Wibble’s analysis at 8:15 is pretty accurate. I note that Nancy Pelosi’s deliberate decision to force her Blue Dog caucus to vote in lockstep with the extreme leftists regarding impeachment is going to cost many of them their seats in November. It seems likely that she and the billionaires who bankroll the Democrats (and call the shots) have decided that a party that is ideologically pure beats a party that has a majority in the House.

I get the impression that Pelosi is stuck between a rock and a hard place. She's facing a rebellion to her left and a party base that has decided to go insane in their hatred of Trump. The result is that she has to move left to appease them, but doing so means sacrificing any moderate Dems. Don't be surprised if the Dems lose the House, and she announces her retirement after this next term.


gilbar said...

found one!
Who Caucuses? A Demographic Snapshot of Iowa Caucusgoers

65+.. 28%
45-65 36%
30-44 19%
17-29 18%

So,
64% of 2016 caucus goers were OVER 45 (that's TWO THIRDS! Which is MOST)
18% were under 30 (that's NOT MANY!)

Aunty Trump said...

Thao Nguyen@helloitsthao
·
23m
Replying to @helloitsthao
there is a way for the left to become "working class" again but it's not through economic policy

it's through immigration

the left-wing social democrats in denmark embraced an extreme anti-immigration platform in 2019 and won power

gilbar said...

Todd said about what ...J. Farmer said...
Why is it that you seem so "pleased"


I don't think J Farmer is Pleased, I think he thinks it's funny that y'all haven't noticed that we're not Being overrun... WE'VE BEEN OVER RUN

(sorry J, I'm sure it bothers you as much for me to defend you, as it does me to do it
I'll try to let you fight your own fights)

ThunderChick said...

Iowa voters in the Democrat primary, are mostly college students.

ummm, No. Iowa Caucus goers are almost completely the elderly
When i lived in Ames (Iowa State University), students at THOSE Caucuses (Cauci?) were mostly the elderly.

Here in Fayette county? Even More Elderly


Totally agree with gilbar. My inlaws (he -80s, she -70s) live in Johnson County, where the U. of Iowa is located, and have been heavily involved in the Iowa Caucuses for years. To the surprise of my husband and I, they are supporting Buttigieg, not Biden. They are staunch Democrats, but have some common sense (i.e., opposed to illegal immigration). My guess is if Sanders get the nomination, they will vote for him, by convincing themselves of the delusion that Sanders' brand of socialism isn't really like the Soviet socialism. It's more along the lines of Norway and Sweden.

gilbar said...

65+.. 28%
17-29 18%

So, IF we assume that a 29 year old is a "college student"
That means that there were LITERALLY MORE THAN ONE AND A HALF retired people for Each "college student"

robother said...

"Some Democrats" say? Where would modern journalism be without the ever-reliable "Some" to channel the Narrative? In the business of manufacturing consent, Some has never punched out from the factory floor since the 1920s.

Sam L. said...

Bernie? Dems just DON'T learn from history, do they.

frenchy said...

I hope Bernie does win the nomination. A professed capitalist versus a professed communist. Long overdue. Bring it on and get it over with.

MBunge said...

Democrats have no one to blame but themselves for Bernie. Remember, there were only SIX Dems running for the nomination in 2016 and three of them dropped out before Iowa. That’s how blatantly they tried to clear the decks for Hillary. But like most people who aren’t nearly as smart as they think they are, the Dems forgot there was always going to be a “not Hillary” vote and with so few choices, Bernie quickly became THE “not Hillary” candidate and that’s how a footnote from Vermont gets elevated into a top tier contender in 2020.

Mike

Nonapod said...

gilbar said...

64% of 2016 caucus goers were OVER 45 (that's TWO THIRDS! Which is MOST)
18% were under 30 (that's NOT MANY!)


Yeah, the people who actually vote in caucuses tend to be older. That fact doesn't bode well for Bernie whose base strongly skews younger obviously. This is one of the main reasons I've held to my belief that Biden will ultimately end up as the nominee. I don't really care too much about what the polls suggest since I'm hugely skeptical of them for a number of reasons.

There's a very large contigent of young radicals but I think the main core of the Democrat voting base is still fairly old guard. The problem for the Dems is getting that group of radicals to vote for Biden in the general rather than casting a Jill Stein-type throwaway vote of simply staying home.

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

Todd: "Why is it that you seem so "pleased" to contemplate the possible end of this experiment call America? It is that awful here? Compared to where? Sure there are issues but again where is better for the majority? What other country has bothered to try an codify the natural rights of its citizens? What other country gets so worked up analyzing its own shortfalls? What other country WANTS to be better than is currently is? Why do so many prefer to burn this to the ground instead of going to these other "better" countries?"

JF isn't the one burning down the house, or advocating burning down the house. He's expressing his opinion that policies which he has always been opposed will inevitably destroy what made America the America you're lauding, above.

This is descriptive, not prescriptive. That you find Cassandra's tone distasteful is irrelevant to whether her predictions are right or wrong. As is the preferability of the U.S. as a place to live, relative to other countries.

MBunge said...

By the way, it’s hilarious that after all the hate Dems have directed at small and red states and old white voters, if Bernie loses the nomination it will probably be due to the older white voters in those same small and red states.

Mike

Chris N said...

To me, this goes along with a deeper criticism of liberal political philosophy. The most principled Democrat is likely a man whose principles would lead us all to eventual corruption and moral, economic and political failure.

Trump has many moral failures, mind you, and some economic and political ones. Clearly I’d rather have Trump.

Worst case scenario is some kind of period of tyranny before some kind of reset? Too much change, too quickly and some deeper currents leading us to such a failure. That would be ugly.

Better cases involve muddling through, able to again rebuild the kinds of people who can keep a Republic, but probably a much more European looking political class, with a much slower growth economy and a pretty tight leadership and limited opportunity ladder.

mockturtle said...

I hope Bernie does win the nomination. A professed capitalist versus a professed communist. Long overdue. Bring it on and get it over with.

Frenchie, I've been saying that for some time. It's a debate that needs to happen.

Mr Wibble said...

Back in 2016 I told a lib acquaintance that Trump's election might be the best thing for the Dems in the long run. He broke the Clinton machine's hold on the party, allowing for the rise of the young, radical left. We're actually going to have to hash out where we stand as a country, or if we can even live together peacefully. And sure, the Dems were in the wilderness, but there's an advantage to that: the wilderness is where you go to get right with God.

traditionalguy said...

It's Trump's fault.The Orange Man has whetted the voter's appetite for authenticity. And as Joe Rogan says, Bernie is 100% authentic. He tells us straight up that he plans to use the Cuban and Venezuelan model to remake the USA.

That's crazy authentic.

Iman said...

Chopped livah and salsa. Yuck!!!

Iman said...

Tubby Riefenstahl can see the future as easily as he can see his johnson.

chickelit said...

No worries. Hillary will step in at the ;last minute and bring the party back to its censors.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"In this last week, will we see the other candidates attack Bernie directly?"
It's impossible to figure out what crazy people will do.
Will leatherface use his chainsaw to cut of the baby sitter's head? Or will he drive an ice pick into the ear canal of the state patrolman?
It wouldn't be entertaining if you knew the answer!

tcrosse said...

[Trump] broke the Clinton machine's hold on the party, allowing for the rise of the young, radical left.

Except for Tulsi Gabbard.

Iman said...

OT, but I find it amusing that Chuck Schumer still seems to think people give a rip about what he has to say on ANY subject.

Infinite Monkeys said...

Has Hillary called Bernie a Russian asset? Because leaving the commie off her "asset list" makes the whole business of accusing others even more absurd.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

"Tubby Riefenstahl

LOL! So stealing that.

Known Unknown said...

You forgot in your poll a "who cares" option.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Millions of Trump voters are "Russian Assets" doncha know.

WE! colluded with Russia. Mueller has the real story. He just hasn't unlocked it yet because he's an old doddering Corruptocrat stooge.

Rick said...

'The knives are out. The rich woke up this morning, and they read these articles and they're like, "Oh no, oh no, what are we going to do?"

Ruining the ability to make money doesn't anger people who already have money (The Rich) as much as it does those devoting considerable effort to making money (The Middle).

Howard said...

Slavoj Zizek explains how Trump is making the Democrat Party more authentically liberal

Yancey Ward said...

The attacks will stay indirect, but will increasingly be obviously anti-Sanders. I mean, this is easy to guess since it is already happening in the last week or so.

Sanders has one huge advantage over the rest of the field- his base of 20% is rock solid behind him. Every other candidate's base is much softer than that of Sanders- their 15-20% of the polling support is probably significantly less likely to turn out to vote/caucus, so if Sanders is leading 2nd place by, let's say 5%, it might well result in Sanders winning Iowa and New Hampshire by 10-20%.

The real test for Sanders, if he wins IA, NH, and NV- will be SC. The problem for Sanders is that he has basically zero support among black voters- his support is lily white people, but in SC, black voters make up over half the voters Democrats get in SC in the general election. He can win the nomination if, through the South, black voters just don't turn out for any of the candidates, or if Sanders can make some inroads with them and start getting 30% of them in a heads up contest with one of the other three candidate (Warren, Biden, and Buttuvwxyz). I think his most likely path just involves thems staying home in the primaries altogether, and Sanders did catch a break with Harris and Booker dropping out of the race before it actually got the voters.

I still don't expect Sanders will get the nomination- I think if it comes down to Biden and Sanders, Biden's support with blacks will be decisive, but SC will give you really good clue to whether or not that will save Biden.

As of right now, with the newest polls, I think Sanders might well win IA, NH, and NV- if he does, and can finish within 5% of the top in SC, then I might reassess his chances to win the nomination. Open attacks on him, especially in the big Dem media are likely to backfire the same way the attacks against Trump in the big Rep media did in 2016. Sanders is the outsider here, and outsider status got him fairly close in 2016, and is serving him well in 2020, too.

Yancey Ward said...

J. Farmer,

I had read the same article earlier and had the exact same impressions.

narciso said...

I call him 'the mouth of the flint river' but 'tubby reifenstahl' works as well,

Howard said...

Leni was an actual artist. Michael Moore is just a simpleton propagandist.

chuck said...

When will Hillary accuse Bernie of being a Russian tool?

LakeLevel said...

I can smell 1968 coming. Milwaukee : Chicago. Antifa : Yippees. Abby Hoffman : Michael Moore.

The Demcrats will screw Bernie again and all hell will break loose.

Iman said...

Sanders?!?! It looks like Soleimani may be the Dem to beat, he’s at 15% and leavening...

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/dnc%20poll%2020200127.jpg

Yancey Ward said...

MBunge wrote:

"Democrats have no one to blame but themselves for Bernie. Remember, there were only SIX Dems running for the nomination in 2016 and three of them dropped out before Iowa."

True, and O'Malley, the third candidate, was a non-entity. In 2016, it was heads up Clinton vs Sanders right from the starting gate of voting. The main problem for Sanders this time is that it isn't heads up from the start. If he could have had only Biden as an opponent at the start, he might well be the favorite, but the non-Biden vote is being split with two other candidates this time, and Sanders, to win, really does need to sweep the first three races, and I am not sure that is going to be enough anyway.

Iman said...

or is it moldering... I forget...

Jeff said...

On the right, the alliance between libertarians and social conservatives is dead with the end of the Cold War. There might have been some attempt to paper over fractures back after 9/11, but those fractures have grown too great, IMHO, to mend.

No, the divide for now is between Trump supporters and the Never-Trumpers. The latter are neither social conservatives nor libertarians. They're mostly neocons who never met a war they didn't like. Many of them are former Scoop Jackson Democrats who left that party when McGovern got the 1972 nomination. No one reading the "American Greatness" stuff in the Weekly Standard in the late 90's and early 2000's could possibly mistake those guys for libertarians. Nor did they try very hard to conceal their disdain for social conservatives.

Back in the first Reagan Administration, libertarians feared that social conservatives were trying to use their influence to enforce their mores on the rest of us. Remember the panics over the supposed malign influence of Jerry Falwell and The Moral Majority? These days social conservatives find that libertarians are their allies in opposing progressive attempts to use the levers of government against their churches. Lois Lerner is equally despised by social conservatives and libertarians.

rcocean said...

Libertarians are worthless allies. They want their tax cuts, but then piss and moan when those dreaded "social conservatives" wanted their agenda passed. That's not how an alliance works, but I don't think the Chamber of Commerce and the dumbshit libertarians even understand how alliances work.

As stated above, the Never trumpers are just globalist FAKE Cons who want middle-wars, open borders, and no tariffs. The working class and middle class are supposed to shut up and support the New World Order -no matter what. Almost all of them have stamped their little feet, pouted, and left the Republican party. Almost of all them are AWOL in the fight with Left-wing Democrats. Because they don't care about anything but more wars and globalism.

rcocean said...

Bernie has no support in the South. He has no support with Blacks. There's no reason to think he can beat Biden.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger tcrosse said...
[Trump] broke the Clinton machine's hold on the party, allowing for the rise of the young, radical left.

Except for Tulsi Gabbard.


Tulsi Gabbard is my congressman.
She is a left-populist. Very far left.

Jack Klompus said...

It's alright Cookie. You can just keep peppering all of your insights with the word "corporate" and everyone will genuflect before your brilliance.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

I wouldn't worry too much about Bernie. I suspect James O'Keeffe has got a lot more footage he's sitting on.

rehajm said...

Yancey is right about Bernie with that solid base. He’s got wherever he goes- maybe a little more or less to be fair, but if he gets those early wins and maintains the base as we travel the rest of the country he makes it to summer. Now throw in a biden exposure and associated slump...

....now add to the mix a couple of billionaires spending their own money on themselves or on someone else of they choose. Add to that an entitled sociopath with a strong backing of the deep state and a former winner still revered by his party and still connected...

Hmmmmm...

rehajm said...

Given the current state of the Democratic party does Bernie’s cuckoo for cocoa puffs vintage footage hurt him...or help him? He’s not running for the GOP nomination, remember...

Bruce Hayden said...

“The DNC handed over it's operational authority to the Clinton campaign and actively subverted Bernie in 2016. The only reason we know this is because the "Russians" supposedly hacked their servers + Clinton's campaign manager e-mail. An unknown person or group - with no evidence this person was linked to the russian government - then leaked it to Wikileaks. Wikileaks then controlled the leak.”

Actually, very likely it was an inside job by a DNC staffer, very likely a Bernie Bro, such as the conveniently murdered Seth Rich. DNI Clapper, along with CIA Director Brennan and FBI Director Comey put together a hand picked team (including the ubiquitous Peter Strzok for the FBI) to arrive at the political solution that they wanted. They wanted to pin it on the Russians because they were, at that time, using Russian collusion as their justification for spying on Trump. It was pretty obviously a setup, by the way that the investigation was setup, not using the entire Intelligence Community, but just those two, plus the NSA, under Adm Rogers, that didn’t fully endorse the findings desired by Clapper, Brennan, and Comey. Plus, instead of the usual experts, who would normally have been assigned to the investigation, they used corrupt political operatives like Strzok instead.

Then Russian involvement was explicitly and vehemently denied by the one person who would know the source of the material published by Wikileaks- the Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange, who spent the next several years holed up in a foreign embassy as his penance. And this was later corroborated by experts not beholden to Clinton, Clapper, Brennan, and Comey determining that the transfer times of the data precluded the data having been transmitted to Russia or Eastern Europe over the Internet (and if it had been transferred as claimed, at the required speeds, the NSA would have noticed, and didn’t), plus the the DNC emails had been stored on a FAT formatted device which, any more, almost always means a Flash memory drive, though it could mean a DVD or Blue Ray device.

J. Farmer said...

@Lewis Wetzel:

Very far left.

What is the difference between left, far left, and very far left?

J. Farmer said...

@Todd:

Why is it that you seem so "pleased" to contemplate the possible end of this experiment call America?

Thanks, gilbar and Angle-Dyne for the backup. I agree with your takes. I am certainly not "pleased" about what is happening. I spent 20 years trying to warn people away from it. Instead we got George W. Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. But I do have to admit that I find it tragically comic that so many conservatives are doing dances in the end zone while missing the fact that they've completely lost. All of the things that have contributed to our decline, mass immigration, globalization, and foreign adventurism, were all enthusiastically backed by the pro-business wing of the GOP. The oligarchs that run the place benefit from those things, and that's what we are getting. And they have pretty successfully neutralized Trump.

J. Farmer said...

I mean, honestly, just how fucking out to lunch do you have to be to actually think that "communism" is a big threat America faces in 2020. Business-friendly neoliberalism has ruled the day for 40 years.

tcrosse said...

Tulsi Gabbard is my congressman.
She is a left-populist. Very far left.


My point being that if the Clinton Machine's hold on the party had been broken, Tulsi would be more in evidence in the debates.

Michael K said...

plus the the DNC emails had been stored on a FAT formatted device which, any more, almost always means a Flash memory drive, though it could mean a DVD or Blue Ray device.

And Crowdstrike, with deep ties to the DNC, covered for them. And the hysteria about Trump asking about Crowdstrike is a "Tell."

mccullough said...

If the Clinton machine were that strong, then Hillary would have beaten Obama in 2008.

Bernie’s popularity, like Trump’s, is a reaction to the past 30 years.

Trump isn’t a Republican. And Bernie isn’t a Democrat. They just co-opted the label to run for President.

MBunge said...

"I mean, honestly, just how fucking out to lunch do you have to be to actually think that "communism" is a big threat America faces in 2020."


Have you heard of this place called "Venezuela?"

Mike

narciso said...

this is much like 72, the 60s generations are much like millennials, sanders is about 20 years older than McCarthy, the sandernistas have pledged to burn down Milwaukee,...profit,

Yancey Ward said...

If you look at the polls after NH, Sanders could benefit a lot if Warren finishes 3rd or worse in IA and NH. She could easily finish 4th or worse in both. If that happens, most of her support in SC and the March 3rd primairies could easily accrue to Sanders for the most part, putting him over the top in places like MA, CA, and even TX. That is what Sanders needs to happen to win the nomination.

Of course, we won't get really many updated polls in the March 3rd primary states until after New Hampshire- a lot of the data going into the averages is very stale.

J. Farmer said...

@Mike:

Have you heard of this place called "Venezuela?"

Yes, Michael. I've even heard of a much closer placed called Cuba. So what? Venezuela and Cuba are very different countries than the US with very different histories, cultures, demographic compositions, and issues. Worrying about the US becoming Venezuela or Cuba is a little like worrying about dying by spontaneous human combustion.

J. Farmer said...

this is much like 72

Except with a lot more ethnic minorities and single women voting.

Shouting Thomas said...

Worrying about the US becoming Venezuela or Cuba is a little like worrying about dying by spontaneous human combustion.

Venezuelans were saying the same thing about Venezuela not long ago.

It was supposed to be a remarkable exception to the usual failures of Latin America countries.

You’re remarkably sanguine about the catastrophe of communism. I was when I was young and stupid, too.

The reservoir of wealth can be drained and stolen much more quickly than you imagine.

Rick said...

Worrying about the US becoming Venezuela or Cuba is a little like worrying about dying by spontaneous human combustion.

Venezuela isn't what it is because of its culture or history. The Venezuelan population believed a demagogue who convinced them the difficulty of life was created by a small number of rich people and if they just took their resources everything would be easy. This is the same economic plan Dems offer as Democratic Socialism. But as each offering fails to achieve its goals Dems will offer an even more extreme "solution". So as Obamacare failed Dems moved on to Medicare For All. When that fails Dems will advocate further government control. Interestingly even though this was entirely predicted left wingers will claim to be surprised by this outcome.

That it might take longer than 20 years to reach the current Venezuelan stage is no reason to get started.

rehajm said...

Sufficient legislative taxation to incentivize capital flight and its all over. It wouldn’t take 20 years...

Warren’s policies would do, especially since she’s adding the added incentive of criminalization of resisting government takeover of private enterprise...

Michael K said...

Worrying about the US becoming Venezuela or Cuba is a little like worrying about dying by spontaneous human combustion.

Says the guy who is predicting immanent collapse. Got it.

Rabel said...

"Has anyone yet figured out how, if Bernie wins, he'd manage to get his domestic agenda through Congress?"

He'll still have a ручка and a телефон.

Howard said...

Zizek (see video link above) makes J Farmer's point about how you cucks think that the US is a few steps away from Venezuela.

Szoszolo said...

Michael K said: "It's all about who his VP is."

Ditto Biden. The thought that he could get the nomination, pick Harris or Warren as his VP, win because he's a "moderate," and then die? Terrifying.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

J. Farmer asks: Has anyone yet figured out how, if Bernie wins, he'd manage to get his domestic agenda through Congress?

Silly boy! He doesn't intend to actually implement his agenda. He just wants to get elected.

mccullough said...

I don’t think the US is a few steps away from Venezuela.

But with the increasing number of Hispanics and single women, it’s closer than 1972.

mccullough said...

Bernie and AOC make a cute couple.

traditionalguy said...

NB:Crazy Bernie wants a UN World Government that temporarily rules by force like the Communist International planned.Most of his young disciples straight from Marxist College indoctrination love that idea. And they also love his idea of taking all private property for the collective. It seems that their college Communist Party minders never told them about the need for round up and murder of the proletariat and temporary rule by Secret Police empowered to kill off any opposition.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"Blogger J. Farmer said...
@Mike:

Have you heard of this place called "Venezuela?"

Yes, Michael. I've even heard of a much closer placed called Cuba. So what? Venezuela and Cuba are very different countries than the US with very different histories, cultures, demographic compositions, and issues. Worrying about the US becoming Venezuela or Cuba is a little like worrying about dying by spontaneous human combustion."

Hmmm. Just the other day you were saying Latin American demographics in the US were going to result in a Latin American polity.

Jim at said...

They're all going to attack Bernie. It's in the leftist DNA.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Free stuff - then collapse. It will so be worth it.

narciso said...

I doubt it, they would be attacking their own voters,

what explains Scandinavian stupidity long before the great migrations from turkey and the near east,

Sebastian said...

Well, at least a Bernie nomination would make life easier for Althouse: surely voting for him would be beyond even her powers of rationalization--wouldn't it?

Big Mike said...

@Sebastian, nice joke.

Greg the class traitor said...

It's a collective action problem, and none of the Democrat collectivists have a way to solve it:

They all want Bernie to go down

But attacking Bernie takes you down, whether or not your attack also takes him down
2016 GOP Primary:
Chris Christie took down Rubio before NH Primary voting. But he got no boost out of it, and probably went down because of it
Rubio went after Trump in one of the debates. he landed some good hits, and Trump's support dropped. But, at the same time, Rubio's support dropped

Since all the Democrat candidates are monomaniacal egotists who desperately want to be President, none of them will risk themselves by going after Bernie

I'm willing to have events prove me wrong, but i don't expect them to

Greg the class traitor said...


Robert Cook said...
For the record, I don't think that Sanders, even if were to win the election, will be able (and may not even try) to get most or any of his promised policy changes implemented.


Ah, the old "Vote for Sanders! Sure, he's a dangerous nut, but, don't worry, Congress will stop him after the voters pick him!"

Sorry, but when the best thing you can say about your candidate is "hey, don't worry, he won't get to do what he wants to do", the better choice is to just not vote for him

Greg the class traitor said...

OTOH, i'm totally OK with Democrats nominating Bernie, with the slogan: "Make sure you vote Republican for House and Senate, so Bernie can't get his nutty ideas implemented, even if he wins!"

Then we have a Trump led GOP sweep

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

Says the guy who is predicting immanent collapse. Got it.

I think you mean imminent, but hey, I'm no one to call it other people's typos. And I have never predicted a "collapse." The United States will still be a rich and powerful country. It just won't be America. It'll be some kind of Balkanized amalgam. Imagine the Californication of the US federal government.

J. Farmer said...

@Rick:

The Venezuelan population believed a demagogue who convinced them the difficulty of life was created by a small number of rich people and if they just took their resources everything would be easy. This is the same economic plan Dems offer as Democratic Socialism.

That betrays an exceptionally facile understanding of Venezuela's history and of democratic socialism. A term that can be used to describe Venezuela and Norway is not a very useful term.

J. Farmer said...

@The Cracker Emcee Refulgent:

Hmmm. Just the other day you were saying Latin American demographics in the US were going to result in a Latin American polity.

Not quite. There will be no single dominant polity. It will be a patchwork of competing ethnic interests, with whites, Jews, and East Asians accumulating at the top, and blacks and Hispanics accumulating at the bottom. We can expect lots of corruption, ethnic nepotism, and a lot of the old banana republic problems. But that is not the same thing as communism, which the overwhelming majority of Latin America is not.

Gk1 said...

I would think just having Bernie explain how we could possibly afford "free" healthcare for all or how he understands "locking up CEO's for climate change" could possibly work in a country with a functioning constitution and due process would finish him off in the primaries.

The other reason I am not worries is Bernie is not pro war enough so the deep state would neuter him way before he could even take the oath of office. As I already suspected his VP selection will be the thing to keep your eyes on.

Iman said...

A Bullschiffick® Revolution!

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quaestor said...

Biden, Warren, and the others (How many are they? A dozen? I've lost the will to count.) will play nice and rag on the President, at least for a week. The Iowa Caucus is important only because it captivates the MSM. It gives idiots who are paid to idiotically pontificate something to blather about.

The Caucus is attended chiefly by lunatics and people who get excited by politics, which is borderline lunacy in any case. Looneys love Bernie, but the Democratic National Committee is probably not composed of lunatics. (I could be wrong about this.) They want to stay in some position of power. The WH is out of reach, but there are Congressional seats, governorships, and state legislatures that will fall to the GOP if Sanders tops the ticket.

By hook or by crook, Bernie is doomed.

Greg the class traitor said...

Blogger J. Farmer said...
this is much like 72

Except with a lot more ethnic minorities and single women voting.


Except as a response, the Democrats have become even more lunatic, thus driving a lot more "white males" to vote GOP

J. Farmer said...

@Greg the class traitor:

Except as a response, the Democrats have become even more lunatic, thus driving a lot more "white males" to vote GOP

Certainly true. Appealing to work-class whites, the so called "Sailer strategy," was precisely the method Trump used to win. That is why the left is so giddy over the fact that whites are heading for minority status in this country. For the last several years, non-white births of outnumbered white births. Non-whites already outnumber whites in K-12 education.

People have been trying to sound this alarm for many years. Peter Brimelow wrote Alien Nation almost 25 years ago. Pat Buchanan wrote The Death of the West almost 20 years ago. But instead of heeding such advice, the GOP decided to go the way of the Bushes, Newt Gingrich, Karl Rove, and Ana Navarro to assure us all that Hispanics were "natural Republicans."

Birkel said...

Remember that all the Cruise Bros and LLRs are going to vote for the Democratics.

Including Bernie.

Bilwick said...

In related news, thousands are starting to hoard toilet paper. . .

alanc709 said...

Narciso called Michael Moore 'tubby reifenstahl'. Nice one, that made me chuckle.

alanc709 said...

Sorry, Iman, didnt see that he was quoting you with that appellation. Well done, in any case.

pious agnostic said...

Let the DNC choke on Bernie. He was only allowed to run against Hillary so that she would have someone to run to the right of, and everybody else was excluded from the primary. And they were amazed how many DEMOCRATS supported him instead of Her Corruptness. Four years later, they've created a monster and they don't know what to do about it!

Choke on it, I say.

Aunty Trump said...

It would be cool to have a president that I can say I bumped into more than once at the farmers’ market.

Rick said...

J. Farmer said...
A term that can be used to describe Venezuela and Norway is not a very useful term...


...and there are no true Scotsman.

15 years ago left wingers praised Venezuela's striving for the same values they praise in Norway, the countries weren't so different then. Venezuela clearly demonstrates the results of an unopposed left - something that may not yet exist elsewhere. But the left is overcoming that by creating rule by unelected bureaucracy which can ignore opposition (see the left's Tile IX debacle). Ultimately it's the policies which matter. Culture might have an indirect impact by influencing the change people are willing to accept. But that only buys time, in the end Venezuelan policies result in Venezuela no matter what you start as.

Once America starts down the road to socialism the euros will increase their own centralization as well. When keeps them from going all the way is our example. This is similar to how our example triggered the end of the Cold War. It's true Reagan's buildup caused some pressure by convincing them to spend money they didn't have. But the end of the regime came because the economic performances of the two systems were so unbelievably disparate they simply could not be denied. This is a lesson Western socialists understood explaining why they chose incrementalism rather than revolution. Of course now that they have institutional control many now believe incrementalism is no longer necessary and advocate a sprint to the finish.

To consider how this will happen understand the cause of Venezuela's crash. They destroyed their oil industry by replacing expertise with government employees selected for their loyalty and connections. Effectively they believed expertise doesn't matter and anyone could do those jobs. Think about how this fits with the left's various discussions about businesses. And what is their current model here? Forcing businesses to hire based on "diversity" [i.e., political loyalty] all while forcing them to act as politicians want rather than satisfying their voluntary customers. So we already see the American left adopting similar plans as Venezuela. They aren't consciously modelling Venezuela. But since their goals and principles are the same they naturally come up with very similar plans like price controls and forced employment.

Michael K said...

It just won't be America. It'll be some kind of Balkanized amalgam. Imagine the Californication of the US federal government.

Thanks for the correction. I find autocorrect useless these days. Some sort of plot, probably.

I am not totally opposed to an "amalgam" (did I spell that right?). Maybe I misunderstood "doomed" as "collapse."

"America 3.0" is a book that came out a few years ago suggesting a peaceful version of what Kurt Schlicter has suggested. It might be better than what we have now. Getting there is the problem.

The Godfather said...

When the Republicans nominated the "extremist" Goldwater and were crushed, they moved to the "moderate" Nixon, won two elections, and THEN were crushed because the moderate turned out to be "a crook". They were then saved when they went to the "extemist" Reagan, who turned out to be a fairly moderate, but successful, extremist.

When the Democrats nominated the "extremist" McGovern and were crushed, they eventually went to the apparently "moderate" (or at least flexible) Clinton, and began winning again.

If the Democrats nominate Sanders or Warren, even never-Trumpers are going to have to vote against them or at least stay home. Could a Trump "landslide" (Trump would call 51-49 victory a landslide) push the Democrats away from the edge of the extremism cliff? I'd love to see that. Because history tells us the Democrat candidate is going to win the Presidency in 2020.

Big Mike said...

@Godfather, history tells us that Trump will win reelection.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, perhaps you'd like to enlighten us as to why you chose future tense? I make it that Warren, with her bullshit claim that Bernie said a woman cannot win the presidency (he's been saying the opposite for 30 years) the opening salvo in "anyone but Bernie."

The Godfather said...

@Big Mike: I’ve been saying for YEARS on this blog that the pattern since 1952 favors Trump’s re-election.

walter said...

Bilwick said...In related news, thousands are starting to hoard toilet paper. . .
--
Well, with all the Schitt we've been exposed to...

Birkel said...

The Godfather:
The pattern I notice is terrible Big Government policies (1963-1980) led to a Republican presidential takeover for 12 years, followed by a "third-way" bull shit artist who governed (because he had to) relatively conservatively.

That was followed by 16 years of Big Government presidents. And now we have Trump. I'd say the odds favor a Republican in 2024, too.

The Godfather said...

@Birkel: You may be right. I hope you are. But 8 years per party (with rare exceptions) is the way to bet.

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