Althouse: "The President demanded that the newly-elected Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, publicly announce investigations into a political rival that he apparently feared the most, former Vice President Joe Biden..."

December 3, 2019

"The President demanded that the newly-elected Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, publicly announce investigations into a political rival that he apparently feared the most, former Vice President Joe Biden..."

"... and into a discredited theory that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that interfered in the 2016 presidential election. To compel the Ukrainian President to do his political bidding, President Trump conditioned two official acts on the public announcement of the investigations: a coveted White House visit and critical U.S. military assistance Ukraine needed to fight its Russian adversary."

From the just-released Trump-Ukraine Impeachment Inquiry Report.

198 comments:

Gospace said...: Trouble is - no one, including Zelensky, can point out where or when he demanded this investigation, they just know it was done.

Except Dems don't see that that's a problem.; 12/3/19, 1:11 PM
Qwinn said...: Control F... "Crowdstrike".

No results found.

What a crock of shit.; 12/3/19, 1:12 PM
Dave Begley said...: Nobody - least of all Trump - fears Joe Biden. He's a corrupt senile old man who was never very smart to begin with.

I can't remotely imagine Biden as President. I think he's a total joke and always has been.; 12/3/19, 1:12 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Guilty! because we say so!; 12/3/19, 1:13 PM
tcrosse said...: I do not know the number but I know who placed the call
'Cause Zelensky took the message and he wrote it on the wall.; 12/3/19, 1:14 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: President Vindman will now seize power and Trump will be frogmarched to the execution chair.
Schitt-Strokz high five*; 12/3/19, 1:14 PM
Michael K said...: Schiff had ambitions as a screen writer. I see his fiction skills are approaching Ben Rhodes.; 12/3/19, 1:14 PM
Mich McCormick said...: “Trump conditioned two official acts on the public announcement of the investigations: a coveted White House visit and critical U.S. military assistance Ukraine needed to fight its Russian adversary."

I just don’t think this rises to the level of impeachment. Don’t presidents have these arrows in their quiver in dealing w other countries? They use WH visits as rewards for favored heads of state. And for sure we qualify $$ to other nations. Is it unseemly the reasons he had: yes but I’d argue that it’s still w in the realm of his discretion. And in any case we have an election in 11 months where the voters can decide if this behavior was unacceptable. Why should 50 Senators get to make that decision?

I’m with Prof Althouse—Ds aren’t betting on a successful 2020.; 12/3/19, 1:15 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: I like when the hack press announce, with full certainly, that Trump "demanded investigations into his RIVALS" . Plural.

Joe Biden counts as 2 people. + son.; 12/3/19, 1:16 PM
Browndog said...: If true....where's the "Impeachable offense"?; 12/3/19, 1:17 PM
Ken B said...: False, and false.

It’s probably also false he fears Biden at all, much less “the most”.; 12/3/19, 1:18 PM
phantommut said...: Yawn.; 12/3/19, 1:18 PM
Qwinn said...: "The allegations about Vice President Biden were without evidence,"

Except, you know, the widely circulated video of him bragging about it, and the fact that there's no other plausible reason in the world why Hunter Biden would have gotten that position on Burisma's board. Other than that evidence.

"and the U.S. Intelligence Community had unanimously determined that Russia, not Ukraine, interfered in the 2016 election to help the candidacy of Donald Trump. "

No one ever suggested that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election *to help Donald Trump*. The Ukraine *admitted* that they did it to help Hillary Clinton, per Politico. But you notice how they act as if ONLY Russia OR Ukraine could have interfered, and if their tools in the IC decided that Russia did it, then the Ukraine couldn't possible have? As if it's an Exclusive Or proposition?; 12/3/19, 1:20 PM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: I admit they won’t be able to prove that Trump feared Biden the most.; 12/3/19, 1:20 PM
Seeing Red said...: and the U.S. Intelligence Community had unanimously determined that Russia, not Ukraine, interfered in the 2016 election to help the candidacy of Donald Trump. "

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa; 12/3/19, 1:25 PM
mccullough said...: So they are going to impeach Trump for "apparently fearing Joe Biden" the most?; 12/3/19, 1:26 PM
Charlie Eklund said...: In my dew life, I’ve voted for Republicans about 70% of the time, for Democrats about 20% of the time and for Independents or 3rd party about 10% of the time. In fact, my first vote for a Presidential candidate was for Independent John Anderson in 1980. And yes, I will admit to getting suckered on the Anderson vote but I was 19 and about as hip to those tricks as the average teenager is.

But, seeing everything Democrats have done since the 2016 election, I can say with 100% confidence that I will never again vote for any Democrat for any office ever again. So there.; 12/3/19, 1:26 PM
Sebastian said...: "a political rival that he apparently feared the most, former Vice President Joe Biden..."

Huh? I suspect Trump prefers two-time loser, Slow Quidproquo Joe. I mean, every speech by Joe is a GOP ad.

"... and into a discredited theory that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that interfered in the 2016 presidential election."

What "theory"? The NYT itself reported prior to the election dirt shoveled against Trump by Ukrainian officials.; 12/3/19, 1:26 PM
WisRich said...: I'm not going to read it but I'm curious if Schiff actually included in his report the full transcript of the two calls Trump had.; 12/3/19, 1:27 PM
mccullough said...: It isn't helping Dems that Biden's campaign is just old-man-shitting-his-pants these days. Biden is a rival like the guys Rocky fought it between Apollo Creed and Clubber Lang were rivals.; 12/3/19, 1:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Needs a Dem-to-normal sane person translation guide. Words like "discredited" and "debunked" aren't used by them the way they're used by normal English speakers. Even phrases like "unanimously determined" seem to have shades of meaning and implications that differ greatly from those usually understood in regular English.; 12/3/19, 1:29 PM
Bob Boyd said...: There was and is plenty of reason to investigate the Bidens. If Trump happens to benefit politically, well that's the advantage of being the incumbent. And he'd only benefit if the investigation showed Biden is corrupt.
Every President always hopes to benefit politically from every action he takes in office. That doesn't mean every action he takes is an impeachable offense. That's just the way our system works.; 12/3/19, 1:31 PM
bagoh20 said...: Something I read in "The Week in Pictures" recently:

Paraphrasing:

"So let me get this straight. The Democrats want to impeach the current president for asking to investigate a crime, and then they want to elect the guy who committed the crime."

Pretty much sums it up.; 12/3/19, 1:33 PM
narciso said...: there is no intelligence in that report, with both senses of the word,; 12/3/19, 1:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Cuck is gonna give us the Conservative Case for Warren RSN.; 12/3/19, 1:34 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: Nobody has feared Biden since he put down that chain he used to threaten Corn Pop.; 12/3/19, 1:36 PM
Todd said...: That is a might bold move, putting their lies down on paper like that. I guess they are behaving like fascists of old in that if you lie long enough and loud enough, you will eventually become the truth.

So now that the report is out, lets get the impeachment vote going, so that the Senate can get the actual trial started! Start calling/cross-examining witnesses under oath. Start with Schiff and proceed to the rest of the FBI, CIA, Hunter, etc. from there.

I have to go stock up on popcorn....; 12/3/19, 1:36 PM
JPS said...: "that [Trump] apparently feared the most," former Vice President Joe Biden."

That confirms it for me: This inquiry is pushed by a faction of Democrats that hopes to weaken Trump to the point where he loses, but one way or another wants to make damn sure Biden isn't the nominee. My guess is Liz Warren's allies.

I mean, it's too bad about all the attention this has accidentally focused on Joe Biden's, dare I say it, quid pro quo, and on Hunter Biden's status as a professional remora, but it's for the greater good.; 12/3/19, 1:36 PM
Beasts of England said...: Faithfully submitted on this 3rd day of December 2019
Your humble servant,
Chuck; 12/3/19, 1:36 PM
phantommut said...: There's a shiny spot on Nancy Pelosi's desk where she bangs her head.; 12/3/19, 1:37 PM
Brian said...: and into a discredited theory that it was Ukraine

People in Media keep pointing this out, but they don't provide details. Every time someone says that theory has been debunked I keep waiting for the "because...." but they never provide it. The most they will say is that it was debunked by the "intelligence" community.

The intelligence community also said Saddam had a nuclear program, but it was subsequently... debunked.; 12/3/19, 1:38 PM
narciso said...: well she's probably doubling up on the sherry, considering where she is now,; 12/3/19, 1:39 PM
Jim at said...: And when this fails - and it will - one has to wonder what stupid shit they'll try to pull next.

Because they will.; 12/3/19, 1:39 PM
bleh said...: This entire kerfuffle reinforces my belief that our Republic would be better off if we elected presidents to one six-year term. Everything a president does in his first term is easily criticized as politically motivated. Obviously he has political interests in his second lame duck term, but by then it's not as personal to himself. It's more about the party.

There's no perfect solution because a president will always have to think about his party's backbenchers and who will work best with him in Congress. But one six-year term would at least remove some of the apparent conflict between a president's duties to the nation and his far narrower political interests. During Trump's first term, that apparent conflict, although no different from his predecessors, has led to somewhat of a breakdown in the executive branch's functioning, leading to further politicization of absolutely everything relating to the federal government.; 12/3/19, 1:40 PM
Beasts of England said...: ’...one has to wonder what stupid shit they'll try to pull next.’

This scam was soup to nuts in about four months, so they’ll have time for two more.; 12/3/19, 1:41 PM
narciso said...: tuweitha 16 was still around, remember that 50 tons of yellowcake they recovered, but there hadn't been much advancement in the program, but curveball was a game of telephone from the bnd,; 12/3/19, 1:41 PM
rehajm said...: Even phrases like "unanimously determined" seem to have shades of meaning and implications that differ greatly from those usually understood in regular English.

How to spot a liar.; 12/3/19, 1:42 PM
Seeing Red said...: Via Lucianne:

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff hired a former National Security Council aide who worked with alleged Ukraine whistleblower Eric Ciaramella at the NSC during the Obama and Trump administrations the day after the phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. It was previously reported by the Washington Examiner that public records indicated Sean Misko, 37, started work on Schiff’s committee in August as a professional staff member. A specific start date was not available until this week, when the latest congressional quarterly disbursements were released.The new records show that Misko’s official hire date was July 26.; 12/3/19, 1:44 PM
bagoh20 said...: Except for fact that all the witnesses the Dems hand-picked to prove it only proved that:
1) Trump never did it.
2) Specifically said he didn't want to do it.
3) The demand was never made.
4) The aid was not withheld.
5) The Ukrainians never felt any demand,
6) The Ukrainians never did the investigation.
7) Biden bragged about his corruption.

So, yea, that's a steaming pile of bullshit.; 12/3/19, 1:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Who the *bleep* fears Joe Biden... besides young ladies of a certain age.; 12/3/19, 1:46 PM
chuck said...: Bah. Judging by the excerpt it looks loaded with lies. Although we are dealing with Democrats here, pretty everything they believe to be true is a lie.; 12/3/19, 1:47 PM
Leland said...: a political rival that he apparently feared the most

I'm setting aside the lack of evidence that President Trump demanded anything from Zelensky and wondering what evidence Schiff has that Trump fears Biden. On the other hand, I have seen the evidence that Biden interfered in a Ukrainian investigation, and I'm curious as to why.; 12/3/19, 1:49 PM
Seeing Red said...: It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”

― Ronald Reagan; 12/3/19, 1:49 PM
gspencer said...: Trump feared Joe Biden the most?

Com'n, this is no place for humor.; 12/3/19, 1:54 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: This makes no sense at all. Why would PDJT fear Joe Biden? Why is Joe Biden considered a "political rival"?

Why is Joe Biden even considered a viable candidate.

Biden's candidacy is just a lot of malarky.

1) He is pretty close to being mentally incompetent. He can't string 3 thoughts together into a coherent sentance. Look at the video of him the other day biting his wife's finger. The biting was kind of creepy, though I could let him slide on it. But look at him. He looks like he is 2 seconds away from visibly drooling.

And the way he is dressed. Ball cap and overcoat. I thought he looked like he had been taken out of the senior center for a doctor's appointment or somthing. Then I thought he looked like the stereo type of a flasher in the park. Did he have pants on under the overcoat? Or just pant legs from the knees down.

2) His skull has been opened twice and he has told us that he is not the same as he was before. I think this is part of the reason for #1.

Someone, perhaps his wife, needs to take him aside and tell him it is time to go.

3) Whenever a VP or former VP gets into the oval, it never works out well. Ford, Nixon, Bush, LBJ, Truman, TR (maybe), arthur and others going back to Fillmore. Coolidge would be the lone exception. (Not counting Founding Fathers)

The American people know this and that is why we have always regarded the vice-presidency as a positive disqualification for the presidency. Nixon is the only former VP to become prez. Bush is the only sitting VP. Going back nearly 200 years.

Biden, for all his polling and noise is not a serious contender. He would not be no matter who the Repo candidate might be. And in this case, against PDJT? Against the current economy? If he gets the nomination, and if he doesn't quit for health/stamina reasons he might, it will be like the Chicago Bears against a high school JV team. It will be embarrassing.

The only good news for the demmies might be that he will clear Mondale from the record.

John Henry; 12/3/19, 1:55 PM
Leland said...: The intelligence community also said Saddam had a nuclear program, but it was subsequently... debunked.

The Intelligence Community also said Russia worked with the Trump campaign, and it was subsequently debunked.; 12/3/19, 1:57 PM
Rory said...: "So they are going to impeach Trump for "apparently fearing Joe Biden" the most?"

That seems more like a 25th Amendment issue.; 12/3/19, 2:01 PM
Big Mike said...: ... and into a discredited theory that it was Ukraine, not Russia, that interfered in the 2016 presidential election.

Excuuuuuuuse me, but precisely who discredited it? As far as I can tell, it’s been “discredited” by some hardcore pro-Hillary folks standing up and saying “Ukraine didn’t do it.” How about we let the Ukrainians investigate what happened or did not happen in 2016.; 12/3/19, 2:02 PM
Narayanan said...: Could it be that Joe Biden declared in order to enable this Impeachment effort?

**The 2020 presidential campaign of Joe Biden began on April 25, 2019,**; 12/3/19, 2:03 PM
Quayle said...: "a coveted White House visit"

I can remember when pallets of cash were offered and given to influence foreign leaders. In the Trump economy, only an invitation will get the job done. I guess the Dems object to lower prices.; 12/3/19, 2:08 PM
Jeff Brokaw said...: OK Boomer; 12/3/19, 2:09 PM
rhhardin said...: Why not. It's a narrative.; 12/3/19, 2:10 PM
Limited blogger said...: Hey stop goofin' around, guys, this is serious stuff!; 12/3/19, 2:13 PM
Swede said...: He feared Joe Biden the most?

Joe "No Malarkey" Biden.

Have you seen and heard Joe lately?

He's over in the corner having a conversation with his wall shadow about hula-hoops and curb feelers. If you startle him he shouts "Remember The Maine!".; 12/3/19, 2:13 PM
wendybar said...: Bahahahhahahhahhahahha….. OH!! You mean that wasn't a joke?? My bad.; 12/3/19, 2:14 PM
Beasts of England said...: Trump’s dream opponent is Joe. Holy fuck...; 12/3/19, 2:18 PM
phantommut said...: I swear I think that Schiff is a Trump asset...; 12/3/19, 2:20 PM
Paul said...: How do they know Trump 'feared' Biden the most??? Hell, Buffoon Biden?

Right now I don't think Trump fears any of these clowns.; 12/3/19, 2:22 PM
Chris of Rights said...: "The President demanded that the newly-elected Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, publicly announce investigations into a political rival that he apparently feared the most, former Vice President Joe Biden..."

Good theory. If only every piece of available evidence and direct testimony didn't contradict it.; 12/3/19, 2:25 PM
clint said...: "Trump feared Biden the most." is true because they need it to be true to support the narrative.

It's just like "Putin hates Hillary the most." was true because they needed it to be true to support the narrative.

Truth has nothing to do with evidence or facts, so pointing out that a young, exciting Democrat is much more of a threat to Trump in 2020 than Biden is irrelevant. Just like pointing out everything Vladimir Putin had to gain from a Clinton presidency is irrelevant.; 12/3/19, 2:31 PM
Lucien said...: (Preview Announcer Voice):
In a world where you can be threatened, blackmailed, intimidated and bribed without even knowing it: and where not doing what the other guy wants leads to NO repercussions, it's "Schiff Show Part II: Go Nadler or Go Home".

Stormy Daniels says: "This one really grabbed me by the pussy -- it's the best thing I've seen since "Swimming Pool Savior: The Fall of Cornpop"

Random Constitutional "Expert" says: "No actual cimre is required! Moved me to tears more than Federalist #65".; 12/3/19, 2:31 PM
rcocean said...: Except there was NO public announcement and the aid was never withheld because of Trump wanted an investigation.

I thought we already learned that.; 12/3/19, 2:33 PM
traditionalguy said...: Hopefully this is the final fantasy inside of a hallucination that will be spewed 24/7 by the CIA owned media.

And Trump laughed. He knows that his supporters will react to this the same way they reacted to shouts of "Remember the Alamo"and "Remember Pearl Harbor." They will grab a gun and track down and kill the enemy.

The Dems just made the same mistakes that General Santa Ana and Admiral Yamamoto made. Awakening a terrible resolve among Americans will have the same effect now that it had then.; 12/3/19, 2:33 PM
rcocean said...: Notice how the MSM keeps saying "The House did this" and the "intelligence committee says that".

When the R's were in charge it was "The Republican majority did this" and "The Republican majority on the intelligence committee says that".; 12/3/19, 2:34 PM
Earnest Prole said...: Nothingberder.; 12/3/19, 2:35 PM
Charlie said...: When you see the words "discredited" and "debunked" in the MSM you can be certain that topic is NOT "discredited" or "debunked".; 12/3/19, 2:36 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: More nonsense from “knowledge workers”.
Dems=coyotes
Trump= roadrunner
Media= Acme Co.; 12/3/19, 2:36 PM
rcocean said...: And the "Theory" wasn't "discredited" it was NEVER investigated, just dismissed out of hand by the Democrats and the DNC Controlled Media.; 12/3/19, 2:36 PM
rcocean said...: Why should anyone be upset that Trump wanted an investigation into an INNOCENT Biden's conduct or into an easily discredited theory about the Ukraine? What's the harm?; 12/3/19, 2:37 PM
dbp said...: The Democrats have excreted a ... Report:

THE TRUMP-UKRAINE
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY REPORT

It really calls for a full Fisking, but so much to Fisk, so little Fisking-time. How about by each of the charges of "misconduct"?

SECTION I. THE PRESIDENT’S MISCONDUCT

1. The President Forced Out the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine.
The President can fire an ambassador at any time and for no reason.

2. The President Put Giuliani and the Three Amigos in Charge of Ukraine Issues.
Presidents often use informal channels. Also, there is no evidence that the so-called Three Amigos had any authority or were vetted, hired or know by Trump.

3. The President Froze Military Assistance to Ukraine.
The assistance was given by the deadline and Trump gave good reasons for the delay.

4. The President’s Meeting with the Ukrainian President Was Conditioned on An
Announcement of Investigations.
This is unprovable and even if true, so what? Presidents often make a visit to the White House conditional on some diplomatic victory.

5. The President Asked the Ukrainian President to Interfere in the 2020 U.S. Election by
Investigating the Bidens and 2016 Election Interference.
Trump asked for an investigation into Ukrainian interference into our election of 2016 and shady deals by the Bidens. The idea of interference into 2020 is pure speculation and fantasy by the committee.

6. The President Wanted Ukraine to Announce the Investigations Publicly.
So What? If anything this seems exonerating.

7. The President’s Conditioning of Military Assistance and a White House Meeting on
Announcement of Investigations Raised Alarm.
Is that a misdeed or just, you know, news/an opinion?

8. The President’s Scheme Was Exposed.
Is that a misdeed by the president? I only ask because this section of the report is called, "THE PRESIDENT’S MISCONDUCT". I feel like the final two points were put in this section because, who really reads the final two points in a list of eight? Am I right?; 12/3/19, 2:38 PM
rcocean said...: MSM handbook:

R Assertion = Add "Without evidence" before stating it.
D Assertion = Add "Widely believed" Before stating it.; 12/3/19, 2:39 PM
Todd said...: rcocean said...

And the "Theory" wasn't "discredited" it was NEVER investigated, just dismissed out of hand by the Democrats and the DNC Controlled Media.

12/3/19, 2:36 PM

No need to investigate what you yourself did. It was all DNC/Dems/Media from jump.; 12/3/19, 2:40 PM
eric said...: What's interesting to me from this comments section.

No one is taking this seriously. No one on the Trump supporter side is taking bits and pieces of the report and arguing, seriously, against it.

I think this means Trump wins easily in 2020. I mean, if Republicans were worried, or if non Democrats thought there was something there, I think I'd see comments on Althouse attempting to argue in favor of trump and spin the report into a better light.

But no one seems to be taking it seriously. Except the pretend seriousness of the Democrats.

A good sign for Trump.; 12/3/19, 2:40 PM
readering said...: A lot of folks here hanging their hat on implausibility of Biden as Trump's biggest threat even though he has led in the polls since start. And as if Trump knows anything. Just cause I don't vote for Biden does not mean there's no motive here.; 12/3/19, 2:43 PM
lys said...: It's funny how the narrative changes.In 2017, before they realized it would make Ds look hypocritical, even Politico was admitting that "Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump."

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446; 12/3/19, 2:43 PM
chuck said...: >> who really reads the final two points in a list of eight? <<

It is what Scott Adams calls laundry list persuasion. It is a tell that they ain't got anything.; 12/3/19, 2:44 PM
Beasts of England said...: ’A lot of folks here hanging their hat on implausibility of Biden as Trump's biggest threat...’

The report said ‘apparently feared the most’. At least get the verbiage correct before you say something stupid.; 12/3/19, 2:48 PM
Todd said...: Hell, the biggest piece of "proof" something untoward occurred is Biden on tape bragging that he got the prosecutor sacked in exchange for releasing promised loan guarantees, in less than six hours.

Does that mean that if Biden gets elected, the GOP can start impeachment for high crimes as soon as the race is called for him on election night?

Can you impeach a President Elect? Would the VP be sworn in instead? Inquiring minds want to know!; 12/3/19, 2:57 PM
rehajm said...: Does that mean that if Biden gets elected, the GOP can start impeachment for high crimes as soon as the race is called for him on election night?

I wondered that, too.; 12/3/19, 3:00 PM
GRW3 said...: I think Biden is the 25th Amendment Candidate. The Dems know he's got a screw loose and his supporters were planning on putting the person they really want for President on the ticket as Vice President. Shortly after Biden would be inaugurated, he would be removed.

On this idea of a discredited theory about Ukraine based interference. They seem to be protesting too much. If it was really a dead end, it seems they would just laugh it off and move on.; 12/3/19, 3:02 PM
Achilles said...: Anyone supporting this obvious farce but ok with Obama shipping unmarked cash in small bills to Iran without notifying congress is an enemy of the republic.

Readering.; 12/3/19, 3:02 PM
Ray said...: Watch this:
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YpKkYVRpzXJj?t=637; 12/3/19, 3:04 PM
Unknown said...: I am sad that this got published; it debases the U.S.; 12/3/19, 3:08 PM
Wince said...: NSC staff had prepared a standard package of talking points for the President based on official U.S. policy. The talking points included recommendations to encourage President Zelensky to continue to promote anti-corruption reforms in Ukraine, a pillar of American foreign policy in the country as far back as its independence in the 1990s when Ukraine first rid itself of Kremlin control.

The problem for Schiff & Company is that "official US policy" dating back to the 1990s and through the Obama administration looks awfully corrupt and ineffectual vis-a-vis Russian hegemony before Trump was elected.; 12/3/19, 3:08 PM
readering said...: Achilles?; 12/3/19, 3:09 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: Narayanan at 2:03 PM
Could it be that Joe Biden declared in order to enable this Impeachment effort?

**The 2020 presidential campaign of Joe Biden began on April 25, 2019,**

Good point.

The Trump-Zelensky phone call happened on April 21 -- four days before Biden became a candidate.; 12/3/19, 3:09 PM
minnesota farm guy said...: I am still surprised that the Dems are really going through with this. ( Not really , I guess). The exposure in the Senate is incredible. The Bidens, Schiff and many others have the potential to be fully exposed with no way - other than the MSM - to mitigate their sins. I salaciously imagine Trey Gowdy digging in to Slow Joe about "the Ukraine video" - there is no way to exclude that; or how about the whole Crowdstrike story that has been underplayed, but certainly underscores malfeasance by the DNC. Or just getting the various witnesses before the Intelligence Committee that admitted: they had no direct evidence re "the phone call"; or that the President had the power to hire or fire them and to set foreign policy; or who expressed concern re. Ukraine corruption; or finally after asking the President a direct question about it were told "No, I want nothing....".

The witnesses before the Intelligence Committee knew that they were going to be protected, even so, many of them were effectively neutered ( see Stefanik v. Yovanovitch). They risk being stripped bare in the Senate.

In the meanwhile tempers are flaring among Trump supporters. I know that if the rest of the people who support Trump - and might - feel as I do Nancy and a lot of her crew are going to be retired or out of a job after 2020.; 12/3/19, 3:13 PM
Spiros Pappas said...: Trump should be censured.; 12/3/19, 3:14 PM
chuck said...: >> Trump should be censured. <<

For what?; 12/3/19, 3:15 PM
Leland said...: implausibility of Biden as Trump's biggest threat even though he has led in the polls since start.

There's three items there: Biden leading in polls. Biden as a threat to Trump. And then what Schiff report claims that Trump is afraid Biden is the biggest threat. Only one of those items have some evidence to it, which is Biden leading in polls.

Walter Mondale lead in polls too.; 12/3/19, 3:17 PM
Qwinn said...: "A lot of folks here hanging their hat on implausibility of Biden as Trump's biggest threat even though he has led in the polls since start."

Biden hadn't declared that he was running yet when the call happened. Let's see how you try to spin that that isn't relevant. This should be entertaining.; 12/3/19, 3:18 PM
n.n said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/3/19, 3:20 PM
Beasts of England said...: ’Walter Mondale lead in polls too.’

So did Hillary. In fact, according to the experts, Trump had no path to 270!!; 12/3/19, 3:20 PM
Big Mike said...: Adam Schiff should be censured.

@Spiros Pappas, FIFY.; 12/3/19, 3:23 PM
JaimeRoberto said...: Media moves the goalposts again when they say Russia not Ukraine interfered. Why does it have to be one or the other? Everybody interferes with everyone's elections at some level. The UK interfered when the Guardian had people writing letters to US voters in 2004. Germany interfered by letting Obama have a big rally in Berlin. The US interferes in plenty of elections. There can be differences in scale, effectiveness, and level of official support, but it's all interference.; 12/3/19, 3:23 PM
narciso said...: now I could put together a counterreport with what Stephen McIntyre, john Solomon apelbaum et al have gathered, the times found the former Ukrainian deputy foreign minister, to raise her hand, wonder what corporate board, she's been seconded to,; 12/3/19, 3:23 PM
narciso said...: time machine, trump's uncle had stashed in battery park,; 12/3/19, 3:25 PM
n.n said...: Could it be that Joe Biden declared in order to enable this Impeachment effort?

First, a cover-up for Clinton. Now, a cover-up for Biden. With progress, Obama is next. Will no one rid me of this deplorable burden. Meanwhile, the Black Clown persists.

That said, in an October Epiphany, they will lose their Pro-Choice religion, then stop planning and corrupting children.; 12/3/19, 3:25 PM
readering said...: It started with Rudy led attempt to deflect from Russia 2016 for Mueller investigation. Newspaper obits face major rewrite for Rudy.; 12/3/19, 3:33 PM
James K said...: now I could put together a counterreport

You wouldn't know it from the (lack of) media coverage, but apparently there is a minority report. The only story that came up for me was this NYPost piece.; 12/3/19, 3:36 PM
narciso said...: from the same bag of tricks

https://thefederalist.com/2019/12/03/devin-nunes-sues-cnn-for-defamation-following-false-vienna-collusion-story/; 12/3/19, 3:36 PM
narciso said...: https://www.axios.com/richard-burr-ukraine-trump-clinton-meddling-d301b084-c4ef-4ca0-9583-3b017636741d.html; 12/3/19, 3:41 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: I want to see some evidence that Ukraine's General Prosecutor Viktor Shokin was corrupt.

The Americans who insist that Shokin was corrupt and had to be removed say likewise that US Attorney General William Barr is corrupt and has to be removed.

Shokin had enjoyed the confidence of Ukraine's President and Parliament until Joe Biden extorted his removal.

Shokin was removed in March, and now we are in December. Shokin has not been charged for any corruption.

* What investigations or prosecutions were impeded by Shokin?

* Which of those investigations or prosecutions have progressed since he was removed?

The US public does not have a clue about any evidence that Shokin was corrupt.

=======

Ukrainians who do not like the current Ukrainian Government complain that the current Ukrainian Government is corrupt.

They complain to the US Embassy, which stupidly takes sides in such disputes.

======

I myself think that the following US investigations have taken much too long:

* The Mueller Report

* The Horowitz Report

* The Huber Report

I might go to the Embassy of Ukraine -- or of Germany, Turkey, China, India, etc. -- and complain that the outrageous slowness of these investigations prove that the current US Attorney General is corrupt. These US Government investigations are being impeded because William Barr is corrupt. Help us Americans remove Barr from office!

======

The US State Department, the US Embassy in Kyiv and Joe Biden did not know for sure why the Ukrainian General Prosecutor was not able to investigate and prosecute various cases as effectively and quickly as desired.

The US State Department, the US Embassy and Biden were taking sides stupidly. They listen to and believe the Ukrainians who kiss American butts best.

======

Let's see all the US State Department's paperwork related to Biden's extorting the Ukrainian President and Parliament to remove General Prosecutor Shokin.

Let's see all the memoranda, briefing papers, correspondence and reports.

Let's get fully informed about what Joe and Hunter Biden were doing in Ukraine.; 12/3/19, 3:47 PM
eric said...: According to the report (has anyone here looked at it?) Schiff got phone records for

Journalist John Solomon
Rudy Giuliani
And
Devin Nunes

Is this where we are at now?

Does this mean the Senate can get phone records in journalists and Adam Schiff?; 12/3/19, 3:47 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: One of the reasons that this whole nonsensical proceeding causes me no concern is that Trump had an obvious non-personal reason for making the comment.

For years the US has been pressuring the Ukraine to deal with corruption - except, it appears, when it might implicate a highly-placed US person. That was the elephant in the living room. Trump had to address it somehow. What possible standing does the US have with them if we are demanding that the investigate their own corruption but also demanding that these investigations may not inquire into the son of our erstwhile VP? That's the scandal - not what Trump said.

The Dems have lost their marbles and any shred of moral standing as a party. After the Kavanaugh thing, I decided that they were an active danger to the country. I have seen nothing to change that assessment, and now I am not voting for any Dem on any ticket at any level. In the local elections, there were a couple unopposed and I wrote someone in.

These people are just beyond beyond. We need a new party to replace the Dems. We really do.; 12/3/19, 3:48 PM
narciso said...: mike Sylvester that was three and a half years ago, now lutsenko was his replacement, poroshenko, knew enough about his lack of a law degree, and his time in prison, shokin had likewise challenged the Kuchma regime,; 12/3/19, 3:52 PM
Quaestor said...: Walter Mondale lead in polls too.

When pondering whether to lead with silver or lead with gold, always remember to lead with lead. Lead led me to gold.; 12/3/19, 3:55 PM
Mike Sylwester said...: narciso at 3:53 PM
that was three and a half years ago

Thank you for that correction.

=======

I correct my 3:47 PM comment as follows:

Shokin was removed in March 2016, and now we are in December 2019. Shokin has not been charged for any corruption.

* What investigations or prosecutions were impeded by Shokin?

* Which of those investigations or prosecutions have progressed since he was removed, three and a half years ago?; 12/3/19, 3:57 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: I had to slog through that big-ass Mueller book report, and now I have to slog through this tedious bullshitnonsense? No way, Jose. Ain't gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.; 12/3/19, 4:00 PM
narciso said...: he's just as villainous as carter page, sarc, who was the subject of the fisa warrant,; 12/3/19, 4:01 PM
Temujin said...: Caca.; 12/3/19, 4:04 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: "...a political rival that he apparently feared the most"

I often wake up in a cold sweat, dreaming that some dude at the swimming pools tries to make me rub his blonde leg hair.; 12/3/19, 4:04 PM
tim maguire said...: Demented clown or not, Joe Biden is the most electable Democrat. He's the only one who doesn't scare anyone centre or left. He'll do the least damage.

But, this excerpt is more of same from Democrats--trying to make normal behavior sound nefarious through the use of scary descriptors. There are no problematic facts on the table. All the real dirt is supposition.; 12/3/19, 4:08 PM
madAsHell said...: We're going to see several days of George Costanza Syndrome in the press. You know......It's not a lie, if you believe it.; 12/3/19, 4:09 PM
Matt Sablan said...: Isn't it possible both countries tried to meddle?; 12/3/19, 4:11 PM
narciso said...: the black widow trailer seems interesting, unlike red sparrow,; 12/3/19, 4:13 PM
Drago said...: Seeing Red: " "It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”

― Ronald Reagan"

It isn't so much that liberals and LLR-lefties are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

FIF Ronaldus Maximus.; 12/3/19, 4:15 PM
Drago said...: Seeing Red: " "It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”

― Ronald Reagan"

It isn't so much that liberals and LLR-lefties are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

FIF Ronaldus Maximus.; 12/3/19, 4:15 PM
Big Mike said...: For years the US has been pressuring the Ukraine to deal with corruption - except, it appears, when it might implicate a highly-placed US person. That was the elephant in the living room.

@MaxedOutMama, let me amend your remarks. For years the US has been pressuring the Ukraine to deal with corruption - except, it appears, when it might implicate a highly-placed Democrat. That was the braying jackass in the living room.; 12/3/19, 4:17 PM
James Pawlak said...: Why are you presenting a work-of-fiction?; 12/3/19, 4:21 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: I think the next big-ass book report the Dems or their enablers drop in our laps, should have a nice cover page and nice binding, but have just 1 page with just 1 word centered in all caps - "PUTIN!"

It would save a lotta trees, and preserve our sanity and patience.; 12/3/19, 4:21 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: For starters, Trump did more for Ukraine's ability to defend itself than Obama ever did, and there was no investigation announced.

Then, have you watched the Biden video with his bragging about getting a prosecutor fired who was investigating Burisma, which was making Biden's goofy and degenerate son rich? Biden should be investigated and Trump should get a medal.

Finally, who has discredited the Crowdstrike questions? I must have missed it. I understood that the FBI never got a look at the DNC server, but Crowdstrike did and said "It's the Russians." Did anyone ever get to the bottom of that?

There are questions here, but they all reflect badly on the FBI and the Dems.; 12/3/19, 4:22 PM
John henry said...: It occurs to me that PDJT may be scared of Biden but not because Biden is a strong candidate. No, it would be because Biden is such a weak candidate.

PDJT is boisterous, loud and a fighter. Biden is so befuddled that he won't be able to fight back and people will get the impression that PDJT is picking on dear sweet demented grandpa. PDJT will wind up looking like a bully.

That will get sympathy for Biden. That sympathy might translate into votes.

If Biden is the candidate PDJT won't be able to be his normal self. It is his normal self that people want to vote for.

John Henry; 12/3/19, 4:30 PM
Drago said...: Amadeus 48: "For starters, Trump did more for Ukraine's ability to defend itself than Obama ever did, and there was no investigation announced....."

There is zero point arguing reality with these insane lefties like LLR Chuck, readering etc.

They all still believe, passionately, that Trump colluded with Russia, the hoax dossier is real and that Kavanaugh is a gang rape leader.

There is nothing you can say to dissuade them.

There are no crimes. None. Period. It's all made up from start to finish, which is why even the republican weaklings in the Senate aren't going for it.

Sen Tim Scott stated point blank the other day that not a single republican Senator is going to vote for this.

I have my doubts since Sen Burr is no doubt already a fully owned asset of Sen Warner on the Senate Intel Committee, but there it is. This latest batch of LLR Chuck and readering moronic lies are going to fail like the others.

My hope is that the Republican senators that have shown the willingness to fight back against this democrat/LLR coup attempt really call witnesses that will force the dems to confront the Stasi-like State coup attempt against Trump, which includes how the dems have been using the Ukraine (and Romania? that comes next) as well as Russian energy companies as a piggy bank for their own use by selling off US policy and US assets and US influence.

This is in addition of course to how Brennan and the CIA used MI6, the Italians and Australians.

More to come on that of course since that is precisely Durham's porfolio.; 12/3/19, 4:31 PM
Rosalyn C. said...: I'm thinking along the same lines as MaxedOutMama -- the Ukrainians wanted to investigate Burisma but were constrained by their fear of retaliation by Democrats in Congress voting against Ukrainian aid. Their corruption investigation did not include the period Hunter Biden was on the board. Which was the whole point of hiring Hunter Biden -- he was their insurance policy. Joe must have known what was happening but looked away. And this is the guy Democrats want to nominate for President? Even Obama refuses to endorse Joe and probably is reaching for the Tums. Hillary is probably apoplexic at the thought of Joe Biden getting the nomination and possibly being the president, and not her! Would Obama and Hillary campaign for Joe? Talk about "karma." Serves her and the party right for refusing to graciously accept the election of Donald Trump. The whole trainwreck (Russian collusion, etc.) which is now the Democratic Party started that night.

I scanned the Impeachment Report. I saw much of same conjecture presented as solid evidence, for example Gordon Sondheim's testimony, doesn't make any more solid a case for having transcribed it into print. I think it's a waste of everyone's time.; 12/3/19, 4:31 PM
Drago said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/3/19, 4:33 PM
Drago said...: Sweet Jesus!

Now we know that Schiff spied on Congressman Devin Nunes and reporter John Solomon!!

No wonder LLR Chuck worships Schiff so.; 12/3/19, 4:33 PM
Beasts of England said...: I haven’t heard mentioned our treaty with Ukraine on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters (Treaty Doc. 106-16) in defense of Trump in this case. It was ratified by the Senate and signed by Clinton, and it may be an affirmative legal defense. Is anyone familiar with the treaty or seen it referenced?; 12/3/19, 4:33 PM
stonethrower said...: Now that I've learned that Trump fears Biden the most, I think he should be impeached.; 12/3/19, 4:39 PM
Skeptical Voter said...: Ah the Schiffster with his cherry picking of testimony--if not outright falsification thereof.; 12/3/19, 4:41 PM
Francisco D said...: This weak sauce confirms my prediction that there will never be an Impeachment vote in the House.; 12/3/19, 4:46 PM
Quaestor said...: The Dimocrats must supersize that nothingburger to make it profitable. However, they're faced with the conundrum that Big Nothings are smaller than small nothings, and that Nothing x Something = Nothing, so what to do, what to do...

How about fries with that? The big fries. No transfats, we promise... Hey, don't look at the fat little man with a staple in his belly... Look here. Nice big, greasy fries. Yummy. And there's a maze on the placemat. And a ginormous Coke? What? What? Bloomberg? Bloomberg who?; 12/3/19, 4:50 PM
Lucien said...: Does anyone doubt that an honest Vice President would have said: "I can't be the one to strongarm Ukraine into firing Shokin, because my son is on the board of Burisma, and it would create an appearance of impropriety"?

If the Obama ("go ahead, call him if you don't believe me") administration really did strongarm Ukraine into firing Shokin in order to cover for Hunter Biden, wouldn't that have been wrong? (Wronger still if Biden did it without authorization from Obama.) Doesn't our government have an interest in getting to the bottom of that?

If VP Biden offered Ukraine a thing of value ($1 Billion in loans or aid) in exchange for an official act (firing Shokin) doesn't that count as bribery under the Schiff definition? What about Ukraine offering a thing of value (firing the guy investigation Burisma) to VP Biden in exchange for an offical act (releasing $1 Billion)?; 12/3/19, 4:51 PM
James K said...: “I haven’t heard mentioned our treaty with Ukraine on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters.”

I didn’t see any mention of it in the minority report, but it might be in there. That report is a well-kept secret.; 12/3/19, 4:57 PM
Michael K said...: Biden is so befuddled that he won't be able to fight back and people will get the impression that PDJT is picking on dear sweet demented grandpa.

Biden would probably not be able to resist his crazy act against Ryan in the 2012 VP "debate." Ryan sat there and looked like a school boy. Trump would eat him alive. I was yelling at the TV like I was when Kerry Ford said east Europe was not under Soviet control.; 12/3/19, 4:57 PM
J. Farmer said...: Yep. Still don’t care. Wake me when it’s over.; 12/3/19, 4:58 PM
Narayanan said...: Rosalyn C. said...
,,,, Even Obama refuses to endorse Joe,,,,
____&&&&&----
Just head fake.
From Joe Biden on tape Obama approved demand to fire Shokin.

R's if they have any sense and get opportunity after 2020 should go after this.

Should even make it campaign promises talking points.; 12/3/19, 5:06 PM
Drago said...: Rosalyn C.: "I'm thinking along the same lines as MaxedOutMama -- the Ukrainians wanted to investigate Burisma but were constrained by their fear of retaliation by Democrats in Congress voting against Ukrainian aid."

Correct.

The dems had leverage over the Ukrainians which is why Pelosi's kid and Romney's kid and Biden's kid and lots of other connected "kids" where in on the corrupt gravy train.

In much the same way that Hillary and Mueller and Rosenstein and the Podesta's worked together to hide active FBI investigations into Russian oligarch controlled companies that were purchasing 20% of US uranium assets.

Trump winning the election spoiled billions of dollars of corrupt graft flowing to the DC insiders and their army of consultants which is why the entire swamp is trying to undo the 2016 election.

Yet somehow, someway, Trump is still winning in key areas (but not in all areas).

Only a second term for Trump will give us more of what the US needs to get somewhat back on track in terms of trade deal finalization, trying to get the entire corrupt leadership out of our intelligence agencies, immigration strengthening, etc.

The good news?

The dems/left/LLR's are so insane that they will keep pushing Trump to the right even if Trump's instincts are to split the difference to "get a deal" with them.; 12/3/19, 5:07 PM
Drago said...: Michael K: "Ryan sat there and looked like a school boy."

Correct.

Biden literally said "Republicans, always betting against America."

And what did Ryan say or do? Much to LLR Chuck's delight, Ryan said...........nothing.

Nothing.

At. All.

LLR Chuck was never prouder of his GOPe-ers.; 12/3/19, 5:09 PM
Drago said...: Uh oh!!

More bad news for LLR Chuck!

Even Ben Sasse is attacking Mini-Mike Bloomberg!

"In a blistering statement released on Tuesday, the Nebraska Republican slammed Bloomberg's recent claim that the Communist Party "listen[s] to the public" because "they want to stay in power." Bloomberg had also claimed that Xi "has to satisfy his constituents or he’s not going to survive."

Sasse replied, "This is the kind of stupid you can’t script," and reminded his actual constituents that "the Chinese Communist Party has thrown a million innocent Uyghurs into camps and has made billions of dollars by literally harvesting the organs of their political prisoners."

Mini-Mike and LLR Chuck hardest hit. As always.; 12/3/19, 5:11 PM
The Bergall said...: I missed it on purpose Was busy outside all afternoon racking leaves and planting bulbs (60 +).

Nice sunny day here near the Delaware Bay.; 12/3/19, 5:13 PM
narciso said...: what struck me, is that performance commended him to be house speaker, well compared to 'orange crush' Boehner, that was small beer,; 12/3/19, 5:20 PM
MAJMike said...: If Quid Pro Joe and his coke-addled son did no wrong, then such an investigation would have been meaningless and only ended any speculation regarding criminality. DemCong efforts to squash any inquiry only reinforces the belief that something improper was done.; 12/3/19, 5:22 PM
Drago said...: MAJMike: "If Quid Pro Joe and his coke-addled son did no wrong, then such an investigation would have been meaningless and only ended any speculation regarding criminality."

What the lefties and the LLR's (but I repeat myself) fear is not that Joe Biden's corruption will be fully exposed. Many dems would be happy to see Biden run out of town.

No, what the entire Washington establishment is everyone else involved gets exposed.

Just think about this: the entire structure of our global trade deals since the 90's as well as these relationships between connected insiders with foreign govts has created a kickback scheme whereby America is hollowed out and raided so that the US insiders get super duper rich.

That's why the lefties/dems/LLR's refuse to address China. China has so many US politicians in its back pocket along with legions of lobbyists and the tech giants that China has been able to get away with stealing every industrial secret, hacking every US govt agency, spying on US businesses, placing spies on congressional and Senate staffs, creating little laboratories of Chinese propaganda on every key US collegiate campus, etc etc without the US govt leaders speaking out against them.

Quite the opposite.

Biden just months ago literally stated that China was "not a competitor". Bloomberg the suckup stated Xi was not a dictator, but instead just a leader who answers to his constituents!!

The sucking up to China is EVERYWHERE!

Meanwhile, Russia, with a military that can barely keep a few squadrons and a battalion of men in Syria without breaking the bank, with the GDP of Italy, with a navy that sits rusting at the piers, that cannot develop a single new effective missile system (its all hype) and has lost much of its most effective folks to the US (check out the russians living in Jersey!), is called our most dangerous enemy!!

All because of about $100,000 in facebook ads!

That's all russia needed I guess, since the dems, the LLR's and media did the rest for them.; 12/3/19, 5:31 PM
narciso said...: this a terribly formatted term paper, no notes, of course no direct evidence,; 12/3/19, 5:36 PM
Tim said...: The Ukrainians already convicted two (?) Ukrainians for interfering in the USA election 2016 to damage Trump.; 12/3/19, 5:46 PM
Michael K said...: Just think about this: the entire structure of our global trade deals since the 90's as well as these relationships between connected insiders with foreign govts has created a kickback scheme whereby America is hollowed out and raided so that the US insiders get super duper rich.

I have to agree with you. There are just enough stupids, gov employees and crooks to hold down the lid unless some very brave people blow it off. I'm not sure we can win.

If not, I've been buying ammo.; 12/3/19, 5:51 PM
pacwest said...: Oh, hahaha. I'm going to go all nutsy conspiracy theory here, because it can't be any crazier than what the Dems are doing right now.

The Dems are trying to create the illusion that Biden was mistreated (illegally) by Trump, thereby making him a sympathetic figure, and boosting his chances at getting the nomination. We all know that Biden is half a pill away from the looney bin, but if he can hang on until the nomination he can then withdraw and let the American people know that Hillary would be the Dems best chance, and replace himself with her.

Like I said, you can't get any weirder than what's going on right now, so I'm going with this one off the top of my head. I'm going to work on some other ones. How about the Dems think the average IQ of the populace is 12 and they only watch CNN.

Fun aside, I'm genuinely perplexed at what the Dems are trying to achieve here. They know they are bleeding independent voters with this dog and pony show that has zero chance of success. Their base is already rabid, but if anything they are suppressing their own turnout and enhancing Trumps. What's the logic?; 12/3/19, 6:00 PM
narciso said...: yes, their version of a Hawaiian judge, reversed the decision,; 12/3/19, 6:04 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: This craziness started with Hillary and the DNC rigging the 2016 primaries and attempting to rig the general election.

Since then, the lies have been heaped on top of lies.

“What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.”; 12/3/19, 6:05 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: The only thing is that Trump did nothing of the sort. The only problem with that is that what he did do seems inexplicable to many.

Trump did not DEMAND investigations. And Ukraine indicated it was willling to do them. It did not do them both because they were wrongheaded and because Ambassador Taylor discouraged them from doing so, saying they needed bipartisan support.

Trump did not demand INVESTIGAZTions. He asked neither for a witch hunt or a fishing expedition. He asked that some specific charges against Joe Biden - which he obviously didn't do 0 be looked into. He asked not on;y on July 25 but in Sepptemeber after he had withdrawn his hold on the aid.

Trump cut off aid. Ukraine found out but did not find out why. The real rreason was that he suspected thanks to Guiliani that some "bad people" who were against him would get positions in the Ukranian government and he expected Giuliani to give more detail. But Giuliani had already done that. He was not in great contact with Giuliani. Ambassador Sondland was guessing what would free the aid.; 12/3/19, 6:07 PM
Megthered said...: Tim said "The Ukrainians already convicted two (?) Ukrainians for interfering in the USA election 2016 to damage Trump."

I wonder why no one is trying to find out who hired these two Ukrainians? You would think the "press" would be curious, but the press would find out it was their princess Hillary and her team, and no one needs to know that.; 12/3/19, 6:09 PM
narciso said...: Gosh sammeh, you miss the point, there's a Ukrainian version of the minefield, among the elements that led to the election of zelensky, was the collapse of privat bank, that's owned by kolomoisky, who isn't a nice guy, but he probably funds half the verhova rada (their parliament) lutsenko was dismissed last year because of a failed prosecution of a police attack on a dissident, zylochevsky the manager of burisma, came back from exile last year, then communications with poroshenko, leaked out,; 12/3/19, 6:13 PM
narciso said...: this is one of the persons, who were involved,

On 6 September 2016, a group of deputies of the Verkhovna Rada appealed to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau (NABU) with a request to check the purchase of Serhiy Leshchenko of an apartment of 192 m² in a new building on Ivan Franko Street in the center of Kiev.[19] At that time, the cost of the apartment was UAH 12.864 million (USD 480 thousand).[20] Other sources say that the apartment is worth UAH 7.5 million.[21] According to Leshchenko, half of the amount was borrowed from the chief editor of the Ukrayinska Pravda Olena Prytula, in the form of an interest-free cash loan for 10 years, the rest was personal funds of Leshchenko and his girlfriend, famous Ukrainian DJ Anastasiya Topolska.[22] This apartment purchase has caused a great public outcry. Criticism has undergone both the fact of luxury purchasing, as well as sources of financing.[19]; 12/3/19, 6:16 PM
narciso said...: very convenient,

https://ukranews.com/en/news/642649-appeal-court-sytnyk-and-mp-leschenko-did-no-act-illegally-by-disclosing-that-manafort-s-name-is-in; 12/3/19, 6:21 PM
narciso said...: the other official mentioned, is the one that was caught on tape,

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-court-ruling-election-interference/29652728.html; 12/3/19, 6:23 PM
narciso said...: how does a mere reporter and parliamentarian, afford 12 million in their local currency, one might call Pripyat, after the local marsh near chernobyl; 12/3/19, 6:26 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Seems to me atheist fucks are just regular people very, very upset freedom allows for thought.

Atheism has never, in practice, allowed for any thought beyond "I want/have power and you shall abide/die."

Fernandistadiedbeded is so smart he can't acknowledge how great belief in Christ has been for most of its adherents nor most those vocally adamantly opposed.

It stuns me the idea looking at what works, and trying to understand that, isn't more widely accepted.

But I guess I shoulda been taught haters hate, and Christ as King will naturally be hated more by unthinkers as much as He has been.; 12/3/19, 6:29 PM
chickelit said...: So who gets to grade Adam Schiff's term paper?; 12/3/19, 6:30 PM
narciso said...: remember this guy

https://www.albawaba.com/news/yemen-al-qaeda-leader-reported-injured-after-us-drone-airstrike-857608; 12/3/19, 6:35 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: @narciso I;m sure I;m missing a lot.

Need to research:

1. privat bank,

2.Kolomoisky

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-summit-kolomoisky/with-zelenskiy-in-charge-ukraine-tycoon-kolomoisky-sees-amicable-solution-on-privatbank-idUSKCN1VY1P8

"Kolomoisky, one of Ukraine’s richest men, used to own PrivatBank until it was nationalized against his wishes in 2016 under Zelenskiy’s predecessor, Petro Poroshenko.

Zelenskiy, a former comic actor with no previous political experience who swept to power in an April election, has business ties with Kolomoisky but denies suggestions that he would help the tycoon to regain control of the bank. "

3. Funding of the Rada

Lutsenko I know. He in general was considered t be protecting people. the Whistleblower seemed to blame him for everything snd even incorrectly said thst in the July 25 call Trump asked for him to be allowed to stay on. Democrats (or someone) tried to connect some words Trump said about what can only be Viktor Shokin
to Lutsenko. Giuliani now thinks he's a bad guy.

>> was dismissed last year

No he was dismissed this year after Poroshenko lost the election. Zelemsky got anew Prosecutor General approed in Septemeber, as he told Trump he would in the July 25 call.

4. because of a failed prosecution of a police attack on a dissident,

Could be one of the cases he didn't prosecute

>> zylochevsky the manager of burisma,

I thought he was the secret owner. He denied owning it. H was not supposed toown it in 2010-2012 when he graanted Burisma leases

>> came back from exile last year, then communications with poroshenko, leaked out,

Need to get these details

Here is one maybe bad and incomplete version:

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/10/12/from-paul-manafort-to-donald-trumps-fateful-phonecall

This has got a cast of characers that;'s been compared to game of Thrones and we all walked in in the middel; 12/3/19, 6:36 PM
Bill, Republic of Texas said...: Just think about this: the entire structure of our global trade deals since the 90's as well as these relationships between connected insiders with foreign govts has created a kickback scheme whereby America is hollowed out and raided so that the US insiders get super duper rich.

This^^^

So much of our country has been hollowed out just to give the rich and corporations a few billion dollars more.

Surprise, surprise but the latest economic research says trade with China has been an overall negative for the US.; 12/3/19, 6:40 PM
narciso said...: he was a lame duck after this,

https://www.unian.info/politics/10332042-poroshenko-turns-down-prosecutor-general-s-resignation-letter.html; 12/3/19, 6:41 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Honed or contrived?

Word of the decade.

Both mean Trump, you can't stop it. Thank God you didn't try. Can you imagine?; 12/3/19, 6:41 PM
Sammy Finkelman said...: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-president-zelensky-ukraine-bilateral-meeting-new-york-ny/

Q President Zelensky, in the phone call, you said that you would look into Joe Biden — you would ask your prosecutor to look into the matter. Have you had that conversation —

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I think — no, I haven’t. But I think that — I think this —

Q I’m asking President Zelensky.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: I think that somebody, if you look at what he did, it’s so bad — where his son he goes to China, he walks away with a billion and a half dollars. He goes to Ukraine and he walks away with $50,000 a month and a lot of money in addition to that. And the whole thing with the prosecutor in Ukraine.

And he’s on tape. This isn’t like “maybe he did it, maybe he didn’t.” He’s on tape doing this. I saw this a while ago. I looked at it and I said, “That’s incredible. I’ve never seen anything like that.” Now, either he’s dumb, or he thought he was in a room full of really good friends, or maybe it’s a combination of both, in his case.

Q President Zelensky —

PRESIDENT ZELENSKY: I heard your question. Thank you very much. Don’t cry.

I mean that we have independent country and independent general security. I can’t push anyone, you know? That’s it. That is the question — that is the answer. So I didn’t call somebody or the new general security. I didn’t ask him. I didn’t push him. That’s it.

Q Do you feel obligated to fulfill your promises to President Trump?

PRESIDENT ZELENSKY: Just — sorry.

Q (Speaks Ukrainian.)

PRESIDENT ZELENSKY: (Speaks Ukrainian.)

(As interpreted.) Obligated to do what? (Speaks Ukrainian.)

Q (Speaks Ukrainian.)

PRESIDENT ZELENSKY: (Speaks Ukrainian.)

Q (Speaks Ukrainian.)

PRESIDENT ZELENSKY: (Speaks Ukrainian.)

PRESIDENT TRUMP: You want to just —

PRESIDENT ZELENSKY: I’m sorry.

(As interpreted.) Concerning the investigation, actually, I want to underscore that Ukraine is an independent country. We have a new prosecutor general in Ukraine — a highly professional man with a Western education and history to investigate any case he considers and deems appropriate.

While we have many more issues to care about and to tackle, we have (inaudible), we have Maidan, we have corruption cases, as President Trump rightly mentioned about that. So we know what to do, and we know where to go and what to tackle.; 12/3/19, 6:44 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: the democrat party is corrupt. The media who pimps the democrat party's lies is also corrupt.; 12/3/19, 6:44 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: So let us--know--speak of those under 65.

We not over 65 know things those over don't, maybe sometimes but even if so for fruitless idiotic reasons only would that distinction be pointed out.

We know. Those over 65 know.

We know.

I know at the Althouse blog I will earn, earn, earn more than what I haven't received.

"I before e, except after c, or when sounded as a, as in . . ."

This is a link nothing you can compare to.; 12/3/19, 6:55 PM
pacwest said...: Wading through the 300 pages. How did Shiff get records of the phone calls?? That's disturbing.; 12/3/19, 7:02 PM
narciso said...: Schiffs privilege:

https://t.co/BWHfkL0tMR; 12/3/19, 7:20 PM
Mark said...: There is absolutely zero evidence to support the fiction that was quoted in this post.; 12/3/19, 7:22 PM
pacwest said...: narciso

What would SpencerStuart have to do with it?; 12/3/19, 7:31 PM
Birkel said...: And he only got phone records of lawyers, journalists, and fellow Congressmen.
What a ticking mensch!

Will any Democratics complain about Adam Schitt's lawlessness?; 12/3/19, 7:45 PM
pacwest said...: Read the summary and scanned the report. I found nothing but the previous innuendos, word twists, and a few outright lies. The most striking thing is the 'charges' against Nunes. Shiff is very fond of the word "debunked", and uses it recklessly.

Smokescreen is the word that best describes the report. Im suprised it isn't more cleverly done. If this is their best shot they'd better settle for censure.; 12/3/19, 8:11 PM
Drago said...: Guildofcannonballs: "Seems to me atheist fucks are just regular people very, very upset freedom allows for thought."

Atheists tend to be very very very angry at God for not existing.; 12/3/19, 8:11 PM
Lucien said...: @Sammy F:
FWIW I think that by "don't cry" Zelensky meant "don't yell" or "don't cry out".; 12/3/19, 8:19 PM
MountainMan said...: I have been traveling all day and just catching up on this. Just turned on TV and Nunes is on Hannity and boy is he angry. He is usually very calm but you can tell he is not very happy now.; 12/3/19, 8:35 PM
wildswan said...: Rosalyn C. said...
I'm thinking along the same lines as MaxedOutMama -- the Ukrainians wanted to investigate Burisma but were constrained by their fear of retaliation by Democrats in Congress voting against Ukrainian aid. Their corruption investigation did not include the period Hunter Biden was on the board. Which was the whole point of hiring Hunter Biden -- he was their insurance policy."

Agree

As for the Intelligence Report. Malarkey.; 12/3/19, 8:50 PM
wildswan said...: Text Congress - No impeachment malarkey.; 12/3/19, 8:53 PM
Birkel said...: https://mobile.twitter.com/RoscoeBDavis1/status/1202041655450320898

So there are illegal leaks of National Security investigations.; 12/3/19, 8:56 PM
SGT Ted said...: Too bad there's no actual evidence that supports the reports conclusion.; 12/3/19, 8:56 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Buwaya spoke feet-wise.

He had no better option.

Good for him he took so much for his family, they will surely appreciate it.; 12/3/19, 9:25 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Look I know the Badgers can't beat Ohio State. They can't, they just can't.

So much uncaring anger stands athwart just tuning Mozart, and Mozart only, as oppossed to learningm from a man I RESPECT, Bill Buckley Jr., Bach?; 12/3/19, 9:37 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: She struck with the devil she knew Hillary but based on Kipling.

You gotta like that.; 12/3/19, 9:38 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: We told her over and over, yes via quotations mostly, but the point stands, we told her over and over and over, we repeated it vigourously, over annd over, that Ohio State has better athlethes.

So much so we came to believe it.

Mostley now Morey is no more, true. But Barry is.; 12/3/19, 9:42 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: It's probably the greatest program in the country, but WI beats OH 24-23.; 12/3/19, 9:47 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Brent Moss never wanted to do anything but become an NFL star.

He had ultra/mega talent and proved it as a Badger.

Things didn't work out well for him.

I hope all Christians have faith.; 12/3/19, 10:00 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: The NCAA chews and tosses. The idea any individual is better or worse than any cog makes wisened persons eschew it all: rankings.; 12/3/19, 10:04 PM
Static Ping said...: I'm not sure what to make of an official government document that has less credibility than the average hot take on Twitter.; 12/3/19, 10:04 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Hey I didn't mean to single anybody piut. B Moss is gre5T.

i NOT trying to mes witout anything; 12/3/19, 10:16 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "Will this beautiful splendid expert finely tuned symmetry be described as such by U.S. news services? I wouldn't know."

He has won love.; 12/3/19, 10:39 PM
narciso said...: Sacre bleau; 12/3/19, 10:48 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: MKky buddy Donna Shallalla dint' st!ETT THIS STHIT TO LOSE.

Qw didn't get riled up to lose.

GO BADGERS!; 12/3/19, 10:59 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Screeen.

you outmatched???https://comonocreerendios-lem.blogspot.com/2019/12/lighthizer-announces-100-countervailing.html

SCREEEN

And Coan isn't as shitty as we've seen. He knows he is shitty.

He knows.

But he knows they trust him to complete x ninus 7 [asses.

You watcj" 24-23.; 12/3/19, 11:04 PM
narciso said...: Si the rak degenerate gets pinched for chippong in for red queen.; 12/3/19, 11:12 PM
narciso said...: Rank for chipping.; 12/3/19, 11:23 PM
MayBee said...: People in Media keep pointing this out, but they don't provide details. Every time someone says that theory has been debunked I keep waiting for the "because...." but they never provide it. The most they will say is that it was debunked by the "intelligence" community.

We also used to hear that the idea Hunter Biden did anything wrong with Burisma, which had been investigated, was debunked. Since the hearings....not so much.

I'm open to the facts that it was debunked enough that Trump should listen to the intelligence people who were quite obviously out to get him (Brennan, Comey, Clapper) about this, but nobody is presenting them. Right now, it's just one of those facts we all know like....POTUS should never meet alone with the FBI director. The Pulse Nightclub shooter was motivated by hatred of gays. Or that Hillary Clinton was perfectly healthy in the late summer during her campaign. Something that just pops up as a fact at a convenient time, and everyone treats it as if it's something that is undeniably true until you find out it simply isn't. I'll call it a Bandwagon Fact.; 12/4/19, 6:19 AM
h said...: Here's how I see the relevance of the Hunter Biden allegation. I haven't seen this talked about much, and would be happy to have my opinion corrected, or to see a reference to where it has been discussed in the media.

It cannot possibly be impeachable for a President to enter into a quid-pro-quo agreement with a foreign leader in order to pursue a legitimate policy objective, even if that agreement has the effect of helping the President get re-elected. As an extreme example, Truman entered into an agreement with Japan to end WWII in the pacific by promising to stop bombing (the quid) in return for Japan's surrender (the quo). There is little doubt that ending the war helped Truman get elected in 1948. Nobody believes this was an impeachable action on the part of Truman.

So what was the legitimate policy objective being pursued by Trump in seeking an investigation of Hunter Biden? We know (a) the US gave money (and intended to give more) to the Ukrainian government; (b) the Ukrainian government gave money to the company Burisma; (c) Burisma gave money to Hunter Biden in return for a position of questionable value to the company. This is a prima facie case that Ukrainian aid was used to kick-back money to an influential US policymaker (Joe Biden).

If you want to object to this line of reasoning, you can't just say, "there's no proof". You have to say "This doesn't even warrant investigation." Or I guess you could say, "Kickbacks from foreign aid do not create a serious enough problem for ending it to qualify as a legitimate policy objective.; 12/4/19, 7:24 AM
h said...: I should have added to my comment a few minutes ago: This helps explain why the Democrats do not want the impeachment hearings to address the Hunter Biden issue. It's not because it makes Joe Biden look bad. It's because it pokes a huge hole in the argument for impeachment.; 12/4/19, 7:32 AM