Althouse: "So why has the news that a synagogue in the Netherlands stopped posting the time of services upset me above all?"

December 29, 2019

"So why has the news that a synagogue in the Netherlands stopped posting the time of services upset me above all?"

"Because it is vivid proof that anti-Semitism is driving Jews underground in the West. For some time now, many kippah-wearing Jews have adopted the habit of wearing baseball caps when visiting Europe. Young people think twice before wearing Israeli-flag T-shirts when they wander the streets of Paris. Or before carrying a backpack with the name of their Jewish youth group prominently displayed.... During a trip to Berlin, a friend gave me directions to an out-of-the-way synagogue. After some intricate explanations, he added that if I got lost, I should look for police on the street with submachine guns. 'That,' he noted, 'would be the entrance to the synagogue.' But I should also keep watch for men in baseball caps and follow them. 'They will lead you to the synagogue.... When Jews feel it is safer for them to go 'underground' as Jews, something is terribly wrong—wrong for them and, even more so, wrong for the society in which they live."

Writes Deborah Lipstadt, who teaches Holocaust history at Emory University, in "Jews Are Going Underground/A month of terrible anti-Semitic attacks culminated with a stabbing yesterday of multiple people at a Hanukkah celebration at a rabbi’s home in Monsey, New York" (The Atlantic).

97 comments:

Achilles said...: The masks are off.

Democrats are raging against the people they openly hate.

Europe has always been virulently anti Semitic. They just had to import some anti semites that were honest about it.; 12/29/19, 4:07 PM
whitney said...: The irony is this is the society that Jews have shaped. They are at the heads of the majority the organizations bringing immigrants into Europe and then these same immigrants turn around and attack the Jews.; 12/29/19, 4:18 PM
TJM said...: I did not know the Democratic Party had infiltrated Europe!; 12/29/19, 4:20 PM
narciso said...: well the labour party and whatever macron calls his movement today, is venomously anti-Semitic, the same is likely true for the former communists now called the democrats (sarc) in the uk, and a good portion of the five star movement as well,; 12/29/19, 4:24 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: They need to create a new golem to fight the golem that turned on them.; 12/29/19, 4:27 PM
Two-eyed Jack said...: "This intolerance is coming from right-wing extremists, progressive leftists, and other minorities."

The "other minorities" are blacks.

Anything left out?

Anyone?; 12/29/19, 4:29 PM
gilbar said...: Serious Question:

So, in Europe, anti-Semitism is causing the Jewish to go underground...
WHO ARE THEY HIDING FROM??? I mean, i didn't think they HAD white Supremacists there?

I mean, that's Who the anti-Semitism people are; right? RIGHT??; 12/29/19, 4:32 PM
Spiros said...: Putin passed a law in 2016 that limited how Christians can share the gospel outside of church. He used anti-terrorism laws and surveillance to restrict missionary activity and evangelism.

I think the Europeans are going to adopt similar laws and apply them across the board...; 12/29/19, 4:39 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: The irony is this is the society that Jews have shaped. They are at the heads of the majority the organizations bringing immigrants into Europe and then these same immigrants turn around and attack the Jews.

I would just bet that if you went into this Lipstadt women's Twitter timeline, you would find that she was - and probably still is - vociferously in favor of more immigration from the developing world to Europe.; 12/29/19, 4:39 PM
Francisco D said...: Keep on calling people like me bigoted haters though.
You can silence the messenger, or you can learn from others, even those you consider lessers. No skin off my back.

I bet your skin would make a good lampshade.

Oh. It's just a joke.; 12/29/19, 4:46 PM
robother said...: I suspect we're seeing the cold civil war playing out now within the Jewish community. Left-voting secular Jews have at least the same contempt for Ultra Orthodox Jews that they have for fundamentalist Christians.

Black and Muslim attacks on synagogues can be weaponized as "anti-Semitism" implicitly attributed in the Narrative to "White Supremacists" (hence the uniform failure by MSM to identify race in initial reporting.) Like white deaths of despair in the US heartland, killings and beatdowns of Ultra-Orhodox Jews are acceptable damage in the culture war by the Good Whites on their real enemies, the Bad Whites.; 12/29/19, 4:56 PM
BobJustBob said...: I believe the answer to the rhetorical question is Islam...although the Venn Diagram of American Blacks and Islam is interesting.; 12/29/19, 4:59 PM
narciso said...: that's probably true, in stieg Larson, who has carried over to david laegerkrauz (sic) it's all Nazis, and now Russians involved, one popular series in Sweden 'blue eyes' is all about neo Nazi terrorists, as if Breivik was not an outlier,; 12/29/19, 5:01 PM
n.n said...: Progress. A dysfunctional convergence is inevitable.; 12/29/19, 5:07 PM
narciso said...: Lapidus is a little more honest, then again he's a mob lawyer in Stockholm, so he describes the wonderful diversity of the Russian, Serbian, and Arab mobs,; 12/29/19, 5:14 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: For all the "news" you are getting from your New York yuppie rags, they are barely fit for the bottom of the birdcage. This article is at least five years behind. Trendy shit that buries the truth about the world as it is. Oh! But what about Bella Abzug's hysterectomy!; 12/29/19, 5:17 PM
narciso said...: from a Bloomberg sock puppet,

https://twitter.com/alimhaider/status/1211368391522553856; 12/29/19, 5:17 PM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Like I said elsewhere. Buy ammo, practice with it, then buy more. Cause the times they are a changing. Our children are getting fairy tales told by trannies. Their children are field stripping their AKs.; 12/29/19, 5:20 PM
rcocean said...: If Jews are going underground they'd better talk to the headline writers.; 12/29/19, 5:20 PM
narciso said...: the same paper,

https://twitter.com/AGHamilton29/status/1211418717839597568; 12/29/19, 5:22 PM
rcocean said...: "Europe has always been virulently anti Semitic."

But the USA was where the attack came. The UK is also full of antisemitism. Per the Archbishop of Canterbury. What about Ireland? That looks safe.; 12/29/19, 5:22 PM
narciso said...: well there is a certain community, whose behavior is excused, just as with so called homophobia, largely, I would say it's homo gnossos, similar to islam, but awareness is doubleunplusgood,; 12/29/19, 5:28 PM
narciso said...: how does one squirrel in French:

https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Frances-Chief-Rabbi-Waiver-of-Halimis-murder-is-license-to-kill-Jews-612304; 12/29/19, 5:30 PM
gspencer said...: I know, because I've seen it for myself on the printed page, what Islam's "holy" books tell Muslims about Jews being the worst of peoples, that they are descendants of apes and pigs, and that they, the Muslims, must kill the Jews especially, but also any and every non-Muslim, called by Muslims as kafirs.

But it's good to know that lefties continue to believe that Islam's a religion of peace.; 12/29/19, 5:35 PM
narciso said...: like these,

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/quranhadith.html

when hamas speaks of khaybar, they are referring to the liquidation or conversion of the jewish tribe in the medina valley,; 12/29/19, 5:40 PM
John henry said...: Narciso.

Either that or Max Cossack's excellent series of books.

John Henry; 12/29/19, 5:47 PM
Matt said...: I'm tired of hearing about the Holocaust. It happened 80 years ago and wasn't even the highest-death genocide or mass-killing of the 20th century.

Where are the yearly Oscar-nominated films about the Holodomor? The astonishingly-high numbers of Soviets that died in WWII? The Great Leap Forward?

Get over yourselves, Jews. You ain't that special. That's right. I said it.

Could it be that maybe, just maybe, the reason for centuries and centuries of persecution is...you?; 12/29/19, 5:52 PM
Hubert the Infant said...: I hate to blame the victim, but, since I am being put at risk, here goes. Perhaps anti-Semites are being encouraged by Jews. You have Bernie Sanders not only attacking Israel and calling its Prime Minister racist, but using Jew-hating Linda Sarsour as his campaign surrogate. You have Michael Bloomberg, supposedly a big supporter of Israel, obsessed with getting rid of the most pro-Israel President in history. You have numerous Jewish university presidents and professors allowing -- and, often, helping -- their schools to become hostile environments for Jewish students. Even Alan Dershowitz supported Obama despite despite his history with Reverend Wright and sympathy towards Iran. I could go on an on with countless examples of Jews from the media and Hollywood supporting openly anti-Semitic causes like BLM and politicians like Ilhan Omar. Is it so hard to imagine an anti-Semite saying: "If even Jews agree with me, I must be right?"; 12/29/19, 5:54 PM
William said...: Anti-semitism is like a dry river bed. It will lay there flat and arid for decades, but when the storm hits that where the excess hatred liquefies and flows.....The Jews, from Jonas Salk to Jeffrey Epstein, are never underground. The ratio of good and bad in their ranks is not especially different than other people, but they're certainly better than other people at being prominently bad or good. Envy can cause as much hatred as contempt, so, whatever they do, they're screwed. They're the hills and indentations in the landscape, and the current will be shaped by their landmarks.....The German Jews looked at the Dreyfus case over in France and said that kind of shit could never happen here. Jews are not particularly good judges of where the dangers of anti-semitism lay.; 12/29/19, 6:18 PM
whitney said...: Blogger Matt said...
I'm tired of hearing about the Holocaust. It happened 80 years ago

Agreed. But I'll speak out against anti-Semitism the minute any Jewish person start speaking out against the anti-white rhetoric that is everywhere. Until that I don't care; 12/29/19, 6:25 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Hubert,

Read part two of Karl Marx's On The Jewish Question for a prime example of Jewish self-hatred, nay, Jewish antisemitism. Marx was the grandson of rabbis on both his father's & mother's side.

Far too many Jews were active participants in the Soviet Union's destruction of religious & cultural Judaism within its confines. Even the founders of Zionism had far too strong a strain of contempt for the history of the Jewish peoples, preferring not the past but what could be made of The New Zionist Man, a program explicitly modeled after the USSR's notions of the New Soviet Man.; 12/29/19, 6:32 PM
Michael K said...: Perhaps anti-Semites are being encouraged by Jews. You have Bernie Sanders not only attacking Israel and calling its Prime Minister racist, but using Jew-hating Linda Sarsour as his campaign surrogate.

You have a point.; 12/29/19, 6:35 PM
wildswan said...: Watchman, what of the night? A tale of two cities.

This is Boris Johnson promising to stand by the Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxDCv85FXc Especially starting at 1:20

And this is Jeremy Corbin essentially saying that Hanukkah gives us hope that the climate crisis will be confronted. Especially starting at 1:08. Other issues? Antisemitism in Labour? In Britain? Meh. They're coming for the Jews, but I am not a Jew.

https://www.facebook.com/JeremyCorbynMP/videos/821947391551657/; 12/29/19, 6:39 PM
narciso said...: More flatulence

https://mobile.twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1211375529330462721; 12/29/19, 6:44 PM
Oso Negro said...: I am not into the collective guilt bullshit. Anyone hating on the Jews is up to no good.; 12/29/19, 6:44 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: At some point the dam will burst. Because, face it, there are so many people across the ideological spectrum that really want it to burst. They just don't to be the first to say it. Islam just isn't a value-added demographic.; 12/29/19, 6:48 PM
Sebastian said...: "When Jews feel it is safer for them to go 'underground' as Jews, something is terribly wrong—wrong for them and, even more so, wrong for the society in which they live."

Too late, over there. Import more Muslims, get more wrongness.; 12/29/19, 6:56 PM
traditionalguy said...: Interestingly, Emory University has a very large Jewish student population. As does northern Atlanta.

The reputation of Emory Medical School/CDC complex coupled with a proximity to southeastern Florida draws the sons and daughters of MDs. I had some really great Jewish friends there.; 12/29/19, 7:08 PM
Earnest Prole said...: Watchman, what of the night? A tale of two cities.

Perfectly stated.; 12/29/19, 7:22 PM
JackWayne said...: A lot of Jews say Never Again but they don’t really know/believe what that entails. Anti-semitism is on the rise. What will the Jews do about it? So far it looks like a repeat of Germany in the 1930’s.; 12/29/19, 7:34 PM
rcocean said...: Poor Jeremy Corbyn. He needs to talk more about the Jews and use the right tone. He keeps saying "i love you" but not in the right way. Maybe, some chocolate and flowers would help.

Can the Archbishop of Canterbury help?; 12/29/19, 7:49 PM
rcocean said...: Does anyone accuse anyone of pandering to the Jews? Or it that antisemitic? Its like "Self hating Jew" Is anyone ever labeled a "Self hating American"? or A "self-hating Catholic"? Funny how you can never go too far in fighting racism, sexism, or antisemitism. As Goldwater might have put it:

“Extremism in defense of tolerance is no vice. Moderation in attacking racism is no virtue.”; 12/29/19, 7:56 PM
Daniel Jackson said...: Trust me, Jew Haters need no encouragement. After years of nothing, suddenly they find me everywhere. I stopped wearing a kippa years ago; go bare headed now. I've been living in France off and on for eight years so I am used to their false smiles and piercing eyes. What surprised me most, this year, is the strong manifestation of antisemitism in the Pacific Northwest. Serious stuff with people refusing services, blatantly, because I do not accept Jesus as my personal savior.

Oddly, I have been sojourning in Morocco recently. NO PROBLEM, except for my downstairs neighbor, a rabid born again Muslim (her family on all sides were Berber Jews until two or three generations) who constantly assails me for not accepting Jesus like the Prophet did.

After a while of this shit, one sort of turns off. Avoidance on.

Except for this fifty five single woman of French Moroccan origin, I find the Moroccans very accepting. They are humble, most regulate their days by the five time daily worship calls, and, best of all, EVERYONE wears a kippa! I don't but they do.; 12/29/19, 8:10 PM
ken in tx said...: This not new. About 10 years ago I visited Harvard U. and I noticed many men on the street, in Cambridge, wearing baseball caps, with sport coats or blazers--sometimes with a tie. The ball cap looked obviously out of place to me. I learned that they were Jewish men who did not wear a kippah for fear of being attacked by the local Diversity. To me, the ball cap with coat and tie would have been an easy giveaway, but maybe it worked.; 12/29/19, 8:14 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @rcocean,

Is anyone ever labeled a "Self hating American"? or A "self-hating Catholic"?

Are you kidding? The American Left (and few on the Far Right) is full of self-hating Americans.

As for Catholics, there is a certain sort of ex-Catholic who yields to no one in their splenetic hatred of all things Catholic. They're not rare, either.; 12/29/19, 8:18 PM
Rosalyn C. said...: "Marx was the grandson of rabbis on both his father's & mother's side." So what? Are we supposed to think that Marx was Jewish and received a Jewish education? That would be a serious misrepresentation of the facts. Marx's father, Heschel Marx, was given a secular education in law. Perhaps his family was thinking that by becoming part of the mainstream society Jews could end anti-semitism? Or another popular idea was that perhaps by marrying a non-Jew that would end antisemitism? Hint hint -- "It's the Jews' fault for the anti-semitism" is not a new or original theme and some Jews have fallen for that lie throughout history.)

However despite their best efforts to assimilate, in 1816 the Napoleonic Code, which had emancipated Jews as equal citizens, was abrogated in the Rhineland, officially part of Prussia, which prepared new restrictions against Jews. Herschel Marx was informed that his chosen profession, the law, was no long open to him because, deist or not, he was still a Jew. Herschel Marx did not hesitate. In 1817, a little more than a year before his son Karl's birth, Herschel renounced Judaism altogether and was baptized a Christian, a Luthern, and he changed his name to Heinrich. (From James Carroll, "Constantine's Sword: The Church and the Jews -- A History" p.419 Karl Marx was also baptized and was not raised as a Jew.

Whenever a person converts to another religion according to Judaism they are no longer Jewish. So why is Marx being called a Jew by non-Jews?

I wonder how people would feel about a person whose grandparents who were Christian, perhaps even clergymen, but whose parents rejected Christianity and raised that child without any knowledge of Christianity or Christian values? Would people still identify that person as a Christian? I doubt it.

Another odd mistake by YH: "Even the founders of Zionism had far too strong a strain of contempt for the history of the Jewish peoples, preferring not the past but what could be made of The New Zionist Man," Zionism dates back to the 18th century, New Zionism dates from 1967. The founders of Zionism had contempt for the history of anti-semitism, not for the Jewish people.

@Whitney -- check out speeches by Ben Shapiro; 12/29/19, 8:28 PM
Narayanan said...: Ultra Orthodox Jews need goyim helpers to work electric appliances during Sabbath.

I wonder who they find in these NY and NJ communities.

Very revealing wealth disparities.

Not sure if they can use robots. ==> Golem; 12/29/19, 8:30 PM
Narayanan said...: Even in Israel the ultraOrthodox are not good neighbors.

Antisemitism is wrong descriptor for many discussion.

As FBI IG put it : watch out for lack of candor.; 12/29/19, 8:41 PM
Narayanan said...: For glimmer of a glimpse into Jewish internecinities I recommend

Harry Kemelman (November 24, 1908 — December 15, 1996) was an American mystery writer and a professor of English. He was the creator of the fictional religious sleuth Rabbi David Small.; 12/29/19, 8:44 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: I hate to blame the victim, but, since I am being put at risk, here goes. Perhaps anti-Semites are being encouraged by Jews.

Just for the record, it appears clear that it's someone on the right who said this. Ditto the comments at 6:45 and probably even 6:42.

So there you have it. The right openly blaming Jews for attacks on Jews, on account of politics.

I suppose we are not too far off from the day when they will say that people who are raped or murdered must deserve it - at least if they aren't sufficiently right-wing. Nice.

It's a bad idea to encourage the kind of immigration to Europe that's been happening. OTOH, immigration of that sort can be hard to stop. The source would be the wars and droughts that we've been fomenting over there, which is harder to blame on the left.

Someone here also linked Lipstadt to European policies. She's a professor at a Georgia university, last I checked. Right-wing European psychopaths have been drumming up this slogan of Jews as a cause of immigration to Europe for years, because apparently one Jewish lady did just that. One lady. Well doesn't that just explain it. Go after a group of millions because of the actions of one lady. Hey - wasn't it one guy's actions that promoted Kristallnacht as a "response?"

People bring up mass atrocities in Ukraine. The same right-wingers aligning with Putin's annexation of their Crimea?

If Ukrainians want to make movies about Ukrainian atrocities I don't see what's stopping them. But I guess Jews must also be responsible for the slow state of the Ukrainian cinema and film industry. Right. But Putin - the guy preoccupying them with a hot war? No, he's as saintly as the American puppet he controls. Who's also presiding over these horrible stats.

Being right-wing means responsibility is a four-letter word.; 12/29/19, 8:47 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/29/19, 8:47 PM
Narayanan said...: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/us-orthodox-jews-show-solidarity-with-omar/1411242; 12/29/19, 8:50 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Whenever a person converts to another religion according to Judaism they are no longer Jewish. So why is Marx being called a Jew by non-Jews?

Because it fits their narrative. Or lack of one, as the case were.

Most anti-semitism can be explained by Christianity and Islam being imperial (universally proclaimed) religions that had to denounce the ancestral, national faith of Judaism as inferior, if not just plain fit for being wiped out altogether. And since culture and history resonates, these attitudes would not just be erased with increasing secularism or nationalism, just as Jewish identity itself wouldn't be erased by those things.

But that's the obvious truth of all this stuff and, while high-minded enough for someone as unafraid of criticism as James Carroll - is probably incapable of being appreciated by whatever identitarian hack among the flock or fold would be offended by Carroll's insightful and somewhat uncontroversial truths.; 12/29/19, 9:11 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @rosalyn,

Whenever a person converts to another religion according to Judaism they are no longer Jewish. So why is Marx being called a Jew by non-Jews?

Because Jews are an ethnicity as well as sometimes being part of a faith, Judaism. It is not a nonsensical statement to say that "The Cardinal of Paris from 1991 to 2005, Jean Mare Lustiger, was Jewish". Everyone understands what this sentence means. This nonsense that one must be practicing religious Jew to be considered Jewish means that the largest fraction of both American & Israeli Jews are not Jews.

That Marx as well as Freud and others were not Jews because they were not practicing Jews would come as a surprise to their contemporaries, cultural historians, and to the many Jews on the Left who idolized them both. When Yitzhak Rabin was courting his future wide, what they often did on dates was to do readings to each other of Marx's Das Kapital. Do you think the Rabins were not proud of Marx as a Jew?

Another odd mistake by YH: "Even the founders of Zionism had far too strong a strain of contempt for the history of the Jewish peoples, preferring not the past but what could be made of The New Zionist Man," Zionism dates back to the 18th century, New Zionism dates from 1967. The founders of Zionism had contempt for the history of anti-semitism, not for the Jewish people.

I'm well aware of the origins of Zionism. Ask yourself why Israel never had any truck with Yiddish or with the treasures of Yiddish culture. Because they wanted to build a new national Jewish culture, where to be Jewish meant to be a citizen of the Jewish state, Israel and not a culture tied to the oppressions of the shtetl. The Zionists idolized aspects of Jewish history such as the Resistance at Masada or the Bar Kochba Revolt, which Rabbinical history thought were senseless tragedies. Ben-Gurion suffered the presence of the Old Yishuv in the new state of Israel because he thought in a generation they'd be gone. He was wrong, but that's what Labor Zionism thought at the time.

My claims that Zionism was founded with an animus against traditional Jewish history is certainly not controversial as an historical assertion. It's why many Israeli Haredi & American Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist. Here's what a sample YouTube search returns. Do they, too, misunderstand the nature of Judaism & Zionism?; 12/29/19, 9:13 PM
rcocean said...: Its gotten so bad that even Pat Robertson, John Hagee and Bill Clinton have stopped wearing their yarmulkes.; 12/29/19, 9:17 PM
rcocean said...: When the Presidential Candidates start campaigning in South Florida and NYC, look out for Indians wearing Yamakas.; 12/29/19, 9:19 PM
Dude1394 said...: Much like red MAGA hats. The democrats have nothing but hate.; 12/29/19, 9:39 PM
whitney said...: I have checked out Ben Shapiro. He's an extreme ethno-nationalist for his own people but condemns anyone else that feels the same about their people. I'm tired of sending billions of dollars to Israel so they can build walls while nvaders are streaming over our undefended borders. Our armies aren't even here. they're in the Middle East protecting Israel; 12/29/19, 9:48 PM
Dude1394 said...: Much like red MAGA hats. The democrats have nothing but hate.; 12/29/19, 9:50 PM
Christy said...: Saw the road show of Fiddler on the Roof this afternoon. It had a poignancy today that was inconceivable to me when I first saw it nearly 50 years ago.; 12/29/19, 9:55 PM
Rosalyn C. said...: @Narayanan In case you don't know, the so called "us orthodox jews" referenced by the Anadolu Agency website link, is the anti-Israel fringe group called Neturei Karta International, popular with anti-semites the world over, especially those in Iran and Turkey. In brief NK believes in waiting for a miracle, the arrival of the Messiah, before the Jewish people return to a State of Israel. NK certainly does not represent the Jewish people or even Orthodox Jewry. FYI despite their anti-Zionist stance, the fringe group does not deny that the land of Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. Also, FYI, Jews don't kill each other over religious interpretations. There's never been anything like the wars between Sunni and Shia Muslims or Catholic and Protestant Christians.; 12/29/19, 10:01 PM
James K said...: Could it be that maybe, just maybe, the reason for centuries and centuries of persecution is...you?

Perhaps anti-Semites are being encouraged by Jews.

Some pretty lame comments on this thread. Sure there are left-wing anti-religious Jews, and left-wing Jews who reinvent Judaism to fit their leftist naive worldview. Of course you see the same thing among Christians, those who abandon religious practice for political activism, or who distort the theology to fit their political agendas. Look at the current Pope, "liberation theology," or what the Episcopalians have done, or the idiocies of Rowan Williams as Archbishop of Canterbury. But when Jews do it it becomes a justification for anti-Semitism. We Jews just have our share of fools like every other group, but then the double standards take over.; 12/29/19, 10:25 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Rosalyn,

Also, FYI, Jews don't kill each other over religious interpretations. There's never been anything like the wars between Sunni and Shia Muslims or Catholic and Protestant Christians.

The victims of the Maccabees & the early Christian community might disagree with you on that point.; 12/29/19, 10:51 PM
narciso said...: When did christians kill fellow christians in the early period of the church? Some might say the byzantine empire left something to be desired specially in the later era.; 12/29/19, 10:56 PM
narciso said...: For everything there is a season, as is said in ecclesiastes, yes bar kochba started to make sense, when pogroms were on the march. The notion that israel is practicing anything that looks like genocise is ridiculous, what the so called palestinianz have pledged to do, is not.; 12/29/19, 11:15 PM
narciso said...: The old yishuv was the century before ben gurions birth, give or take. How could he suffer that.; 12/29/19, 11:20 PM
narciso said...: The archbishop of canterbury is mostly useless like the pontiff, yes minister had a segment about how bishops are chosen.; 12/29/19, 11:28 PM
narciso said...: A little humor in this sour thread:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-nrZBtKWSfs; 12/29/19, 11:29 PM
narciso said...: I think antisemitism in the church was a serious detour that caused great pain, but im not going to agree with say hanegraff that its intrisic to christianity.; 12/29/19, 11:32 PM
Matt said...: whitney said...

Blogger Matt said...
I'm tired of hearing about the Holocaust. It happened 80 years ago

Agreed. But I'll speak out against anti-Semitism the minute any Jewish person start speaking out against the anti-white rhetoric that is everywhere. Until that I don't care.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
QFT. As soon as the Jew that heads up the SPLC takes down his list of the decreasing % of whites in the population, gleefully counting down the days until whites are a minority, as soon as all the blue-check Jews on Twitter stop lecturing "Fellow whites" about what racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic bastards we are in one Tweet and then declaring "I'm not white, I'm Jewish" in another, then I'll give a shit about anti-Semitism.; 12/29/19, 11:34 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "Ask yourself why Israel never had any truck with Yiddish or with the treasures of Yiddish culture. Because they wanted to build a new national Jewish culture, where to be Jewish meant to be a citizen of the Jewish state, Israel and not a culture tied to the oppressions of the shtetl."

Israel made the correct choice, since it was intended to be a haven for Jews from all over the world. Jews everywhere learn at least some Hebrew as part of their religious instruction. What does Yiddish mean to a Jew from Iran or Morocco?; 12/29/19, 11:35 PM
Matt said...: 12/29/19, 9:39 PM
Blogger whitney said...
I have checked out Ben Shapiro. He's an extreme ethno-nationalist for his own people but condemns anyone else that feels the same about their people. I'm tired of sending billions of dollars to Israel so they can build walls while nvaders are streaming over our undefended borders. Our armies aren't even here. they're in the Middle East protecting Israel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hear, hear. The amount of political life in this country spent worrying about that one is truly astonishing. Just about the only thing Congress can come together on is repudiating the mildest criticisms of Israel.; 12/29/19, 11:43 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Matt and whitney, how nice of you to take time out from posting at Stormfront to share your very deep "thoughts" with us.; 12/29/19, 11:50 PM
Anonymous said...: Hmmm...I'm a white nationalist. I carry concealed. Friend to all. I've never had a Government 'permit'. I am a citizen of the greatest expression of human freedom in the history of this Godforsaken World. I carry concealed. Friend to all.; 12/29/19, 11:52 PM
narciso said...: Really we're in afghanistan and bahrain and qatar to protect israel thats a new one. Now as ive put it, this is perhaps the last era of military expeditions that started with latin america in the 1890s.; 12/29/19, 11:52 PM
narciso said...: As pointed out we sent expeditions to latin america for long periods haiti was perhaps the longest nicaragua for a spell, but after 18 years in the former we though it was a poor choice of resources so proxies were developed they left something to be desired.; 12/29/19, 11:57 PM
narciso said...: So with the prologue of the holocaust that didnt merely involve german but french ukrainian yugoslav jews, yes the dangers are quite evident.; 12/30/19, 12:07 AM
narciso said...: Now the question of european antisenitism is rarely remarked in the arab word bouAllem sansal of algerua addressed it in the german mujahid about an ss officer who makes it across through turkey (recall the german house in pilgrim) into egypt and then fought againsr the frencb; 12/30/19, 12:12 AM
narciso said...: The french, we know the charming refrain ofthe houthi, how jews have fared in iran and iraq.; 12/30/19, 12:25 AM
Christy said...: "When did christians kill fellow christians in the early period of the church? "

I've always had a sneaky suspicion that the crusades were ginned up by the papacy to direct Christian aggression away from other tithing Christians.; 12/30/19, 2:47 AM
PhilD said...: Funny. There are those of us (I'm Flemish) who have always been against (blind) multiculturalism and against 'open frontiers' and for that we have been called, among other things, antisemites (since that has always been a favorite insult for character assassination by the 'progressives' Left or Right).

Now that those policies have brought into Europe a group who are honest to allah jew haters we are once against called racists and antisemites by the morons (like that piece of excrement who writes 'Europe has always been virulently anti Semitic. They just had to import some anti semites that were honest about it.') just for being Europeans. You just can't win.

Ah well, I will take solace in the fact that European Jews will take the blame too since, after all, they are European (/s).; 12/30/19, 4:51 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “So, in Europe, anti-Semitism is causing the Jewish to go underground...
WHO ARE THEY HIDING FROM??? I mean, i didn't think they HAD white Supremacists there?”

“I mean, that's Who the anti-Semitism people are; right? RIGHT??”

In Europe, the anti Semitism is being driven by the Muslim immigrants streaming in from Africa, the Middle East, and even Asia. And is abetted by European indifference, the same indifference that allowed Hitler to try to effect his Permanent Solution. Sure, while some Europeans actively protected Jews from the Nazis, maybe as many actively collaborated with the Nazis, with the majority apparently indifferently sitting on the sidelines.

The relevance of the Holocaust is that the same indifference is again allowing attacks on Jews to flourish.

The situation in the US is a bit difference. Anti Semitism is almost entirely on the left, which is interesting because so many Jews in this country are fellow travelers, stake holders in the Dem political coalition. Again, we see many of the most rabid anti Semites being Muslims, but out Muzzy population is not big enough to drive the anti Semitism here. Rather, much of that comes from the Black community, and many famous Black Christian clergy are famous for their anti Semitic remarks. What is funny is that if the Muslims and the Christians were transported back to Africa, they would be killing each other, instead to attacking Jews.

And, no, there is almost no right wing anti Semitism in this country. Mostly it is faked by the left, in order to pretend that their anti Semitism is universal, and not something uniquely of the left. Hoax after hoax, almost none panning out.; 12/30/19, 5:52 AM
Geno said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/30/19, 7:49 AM
PhilD said...: "The relevance of the Holocaust is that the same indifference is again allowing attacks on Jews to flourish."

Well, not only the Jews. That same "indifference" let Stalin commit his mass murders after all. Ah, if we only had had the same moral superiority as the Americans. What couldn't we have done. Why, we could have recognized the USSR of dear Uncle Joe in 1933 just after that country committed one of the worst, Holocaust comparable, mass murders in history. That would have shown our concern.
And we could have been totally blind after WW2 for Stalin's crimes (which include starting WW2 making the Holocaust possible). Oh, that we were. I'm feeling so American now.

Something bothering me though. Could it be that the superior moral American thinks that the relation, and thus the means of acting, between say a Belgium and a Germany or the then USSR is the same as the relation between a South Carolina and a California? That would be stupid of them.; 12/30/19, 7:53 AM
Geno said...: Christianity is defined exclusively by the New Testament. Disagree with it - and you can label yourself whatever, but you are not a Christian.

Evangelical Christians hold the position that, along with Christians, the Jews are God's chosen people. God's chosen people serve many roles in this world; one is that of being a physical proxy for God. Hate on us because, underneath it all, you hate God. The partial reasoning for this is that God wants to make it easy for people to declare for themselves which side they are on.

Referring to 'the right' in American politics is nearly meaningless in reality - it is a convenient label used by idealogues rooted in lies, death, and destruction. I know many Evangelical Christians. All are supporters of Israel and the Jews in general. Because we know that they are among the Chosen of God. Antisemetic Christian is an oxymoron.

And referring to white Westerners who have practiced sectarian warfare such as that in Northern Ireland as Christians is incorrect. By definition, those who unrepentantly, deliberately, and persistently hate and murder others are in direct violation of everything that the New Testament directs Christians to do and be.; 12/30/19, 7:55 AM
Narr said...: Martin van Creveld says his father moved the family from Holland to Israel in the early 1950s "because he didn't want to feel like a Jew all the time," OWTTE.

Paradoxes of identity.

Speaking of "partial reasoning" I had a campus colleague, a scholar of Holocaust literature, who eventually converted to Judaism. He got a better job at a more august school (hard to find less) and was most recently writing that all Atheism is really just . . . oh you guessed!

Yep. Atheism is nothing but Anti-Semitism! Got that?

Narr
The guy didn't seem wooowooo when I knew him; 12/30/19, 9:49 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: “And referring to white Westerners who have practiced sectarian warfare such as that in Northern Ireland as Christians is incorrect. By definition, those who unrepentantly, deliberately, and persistently hate and murder others are in direct violation of everything that the New Testament directs Christians to do and be.”

In defense of the sectarian warfare in N Ireland, much of it was a continuation of the nearing half a millennium fight by Protestants to separate themselves from control by the Vatican. Over a millennium and a half, the Roman Catholic Church had become very corrupt. They were garnering (used for Ann’s benefit) a lot of wealth by selling indulgences to the wealthy. They could buy forgiveness from blatantly committing sins. And with the invention of the printing press, Bibles became much more prevalent, and it soon became very obvious that the Roman church had just made a lot of shit up over those 1500 years. The Protestants fighting assimilation by the Roman Catholic majority in Ireland are primarily Calvinists, who believe that all of the human depictions that are so prevalent in Roman churches, including the statuary and stained glass, constitute idolatry, and asking intercession of saints and Marian worship both to be the practice of polytheism. Jesuits counting of angels dancing on pinheads not withstanding. And thus all violate the Protestant and Jewish versions of the Ten Commandments. (Sunni Muslims also agree). So, from a Protestant point of view, the Reformation was about being able to worship in such a way that didn’t violate God’s laws, and they couldn’t do that in Roman Catholic Churches. And, not surprisingly, the Roman church saw the Reformation as an existential challenge. It was. The result was very bloody.

The other thing that made settling the sectarian issues in Northern Ireland so difficult was that for a couple centuries the Anglican British imported a bunch of Celtic Calvinists into Ireland, then played them off against the Roman Catholics already there, both groups ethnically similar mostly rural farmers, who would otherwise probably have found much more in common than with the British Anglicans. But things are getting much better. Yesterday, my kid, who had ancestors fight on the Protestant side of the sectarian war in Ireland, went to RC mass, with their SO, since the Protestant church they usually attend together was too far away to make services, and still catch lunch with my (RC) partner and me.; 12/30/19, 10:17 AM
Marc in Eugene said...: ... "for fear of being attacked by the local Diversity"....

That's quite good. The local Diversity here in Eugene is quiet at the moment because the University is on break.; 12/30/19, 10:45 AM
Marc in Eugene said...: I saw the other day that Geert Wilders in the Netherlands is attempting the 'Draw Mohammed' business again.; 12/30/19, 10:51 AM
Caligula said...: Well, at least the mayor of New York City knows where this increase in anti-Semitism is coming from. And, no, it's not Muslim immigrants, and certainly not from the left.

"De Blasio: Anti-Semitism is a 'right-wing movement'"

https://thehill.com/homenews/presidential-campaign/447044-de-blasio-anti-semitism-is-a-right-wing-movement; 12/30/19, 11:18 AM
PhilD said...: "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" (alternatively "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?"[1]) is a reductio ad absurdum challenge to medieval scholasticism in general, and its angelology in particular, as represented by figures such as Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas. It is first recorded in the 17th century, in the context of Protestant apologetics."

The Jesuits had better things to do. I suppose the protestant black legend must have its adherents but one would hope they would try to get their references right at least.

"and it soon became very obvious that the Roman church had just made a lot of shit up over those 1500 years"
Says you.; 12/30/19, 12:46 PM
Matt said...: Exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...
Matt and whitney, how nice of you to take time out from posting at Stormfront to share your very deep "thoughts" with us.
~~~~~~~~
Ha! Is that all you've got? I thought you people were supposed to be all smart and stuff. I feel like there was an article about that just the other day...

Anyway, I dislike everyone equally. As I said in another comment, you ain't special.

But I'll bite. Why is it in the national interest of the US to spend blood and treasure for Israel? What do we get out of it?; 12/30/19, 2:14 PM
whitney said...: Matt said...

"Ha! Is that all you've got? I thought you people were supposed to be all smart and stuff. I feel like there was an article about that just the other day...
"
Seriously. I didn't even respond that was so dumb. I was embarrassed for them; 12/30/19, 3:09 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: My claims that Zionism was founded with an animus against traditional Jewish history is certainly not controversial as an historical assertion. It's why many Israeli Haredi & American Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionist.

BZZZT! Wrong! Ding ding ding! Incorrect!

They rejected zionism because they separated religion from culture and decided that a state could only be reestablished upon the arrival of a messianic figure of such stature as to put an end to all doubt or disagreement as to whether he had actually arrived. End times, lions laying down with lambs, etc. The kind of stuff whose absence today keeps jews from agreeing that the Christian messiah of Jesus could actually be the guy who fulfilled that prophecy. For a guy who proclaims how aware he is of zionism to remain so unaware of such a basic tenet of it is, well, stunningly unaware.

You seem to have this habit of catholicizing your understanding of the Jewish stuff that really doesn't illuminate anything.

As far as cultural /ethnic jews being thought Jewish, one would think renunciation and out-conversion would be a bright dividing line as it was for d'israeli and countless others but apparently that's a subjective transition and putting Marx in that category wouldn't serve your purposes. But some guy proudly read of those works to his wife. A Jewish "king", this Rabin? Newsflash: first generation Israelis were incredibly widely read on all things European, and it would be hard to exclude Marx from that given how important socialism was to the entire continent of postwar Europe as the only stable ideology for rebuilding in the face of the horrifying failure of not only Nazi nationalism, but the unregulated global capitalism whose self collapse presaged that form of fascism along with the others. Welfare states became the norm in Europe to prevent another Hitler, and worked very well at doing this. How soon the reaganites not only forget this but pretend that the Israelis should have never known it, as well.

Finally, why would a conservative catholic go to such lengths to interpret nearly everything Jewish in such individualized/unsupported and obviously self - serving terms? Would you ever think to do that with Christian dogma or is it just with jews that you indulge this apparently liberating impulse to interpret everything about them in terms that are way more unruly and wild than you would with things falling under a pope's jurisdiction?; 12/30/19, 6:42 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: I thought you people were...

It's funny how much anti-semites assume that anyone not anti-semitic must be Jewish. They're not, they're just decent. Whatever other disagreements I have with exiled, I wouldn't lie just to disadvantage her on them, nor neglect to defend her on the things she does decently.

If you assume that hating other people and never defending them is the norm, it explains why people who think this way have so much trouble ascending to positions of power, and tend to only do so with tons of destruction on the way up, tons destroyed once they're kicked out, and long-term infamy indefinitely afterward.; 12/30/19, 6:48 PM
Narr said...: "Socialism [was] the only stable ideology for rebuilding [postwar Europe]. . . Welfare states became the norm."

This isn't even wrong. Leaving aside the incoherence of "As far as . . . . Rabin?", you have to persuade us--we have the time--that you of all people know 1) the true meaning of one of the most contested terms in modern history (as well as what it meant to an entire generation of Europeans and/or Zionists!), 2) that it was a stable ideology (see #1), and 3) that without (dare I call it) Really Existing Socialism (which just turns out to be the Welfare State apparently) another Hitler was/is inevitable.

Did I miss something in YH's comments about Reagan, or is this just another galvanic response you have?

Narr
Boy you smaaart!; 12/30/19, 10:47 PM
Narr said...: Well whaddya know?

Narr
Guy thinks he's butthurt now, wait till after our first date; 12/31/19, 9:18 PM