"... her body is at risk of breaking down. That is what happened to Cain. After months of dieting and frustration, Cain found herself choosing between training with the best team in the world, or potentially developing osteoporosis or even infertility. She lost her period for three years and broke five bones. She went from being a once-in-a-generation Olympic hopeful to having suicidal thoughts.... We fetishize the rising athletes, but we don’t protect them. And if they fail to pull off what we expect them to, we abandon them."
From "I Was the Fastest Girl in America, Until I Joined Nike/Mary Cain’s male coaches were convinced she had to get 'thinner, and thinner, and thinner.' Then her body started breaking down" (NYT).
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97 comments:
This seems bizarre. Coaches get famous when their athletes win. Are you saying these coaches didn't know how to train female athletes?
Or maybe the training was too hard because she didn't have the potential to win at the Olympic level. Successful coaches sometimes have the reputation of "slavedrivers".
I prefer watching second rate athletes
they don't try as hard
Are we sure we do this to women and not men?
Kermit, you wanna weigh in on this,
"It's not easy being woke"
The trannies will take all the top spots and bio normal girls like her won't have to worry about giving up so much to be the best.
I'm going to refrain from commenting on trans athletes because I know five people will beat me to the punch.
‘ “Equal Play” is an Opinion video series showcasing the insurgent athletes who are dragging women’s sports into the 21st century. The article below is by Lindsay Crouse.’
Translation: it is about trans.
And the article is about ... how even gifted girls cannot meet the standards that “trans women” can, it’s dangerous.
I see an agenda here. Can anyone guess what it is? It is not to restrict women’s events ...
“Just do it.”
I completely blame her parents. What were they thinking -- other than that it was cool to have a world-class athlete for a daughter? As the father of two children who ran track and cross-country, it was obvious to me that Mary Cain's turning pro was a huge mistake. Many female high school runners peak in their first year or two, before their bodies change and they become less waif-like. Her father is an anesthesiologist, so earning prize money was not a crucial need. Yet her parents let her move to Oregon and enroll in a second-rate college even though she was a good student by all accounts. So, rather than being mad at Alberto Salazar, Mary Cain should be furious at her parents. Salazar was doing what Nike hired him to do. What was their excuse?
Was she the only female athlete in Nike program?
Forcing girl runners to train to male standards = bad, sexist.
Forcing girl runners to compete with males who've transitioned in the last year to "female"= good, woke.
I'm sure Nike is smart enough to see a win-win solution here.
Female marathon runners often miss periods and develop osteoporosis. The theory is that fat is necessary for production of estrogen.
Females are different then men - how sexist.
Make a girl fit a boy (and trans/neo-girl)'s development timeline and physiological profile. This is based on the equal and interchangeable theory of social and biological progress of each sex.
What's this "we" stuff?
It may well be true that the science behind improving performance in female athletes is behind where it is for the men. Having transgender athletes compete with the women will only make this worse.
Also, we shouldn't pretend like there aren't similar pressures in men's sports. Recently a few pro cyclists have spoken about eating disorders, and a lot of them look freakishly thin because you don't want to have to haul a lot of weight over the mountains.
I'm sure Nike is smart enough to see a win-win solution here.
Wasn't it Nike that encouraged people to kneel? And profit from labor and environmental arbitrage. Win-win-win.
Not surprising. Part of the reason that a lot of us opposed women in combat arms is the physical demand of keeping pace with men breaks many of them down quickly.
This seems bizarre. Coaches get famous when their athletes win. Are you saying these coaches didn't know how to train female athletes?
Some may not. Some may be used to a training style that worked well with one athlete, but fails with other athletes and results in the coach blaming the girl rather than rationally analyzing where the problem is.
She was never the fastest girl.
That title belonged to a 17-year old boy.
Females are different then men - how sexist.
It's the trans/neo-females that are significantly different and an irreconcilable concern for feminine females and trans/females competing in sex-oriented classes (e.g. women's sports). A progressive cause of conflict and a test for the Pro-Choice quasi-religious and sociopolitically congruent activists. So far, they have dismissed concerns of both groups with a hand wave, empathetic appeal, judging/labeling, and, in the worse case, cancellation.
"At 17, Mary Cain was already a record-breaking phenom: the fastest girl in a generation, and the youngest American track and field athlete to make a World Championships team. In 2013, she was signed by the best track team in the world, Nike’s Oregon Project, run by its star coach Alberto Salazar."
That was six years ago. Now she doesn't have to worry about being the fastest girl or woman in the world because boys or men can now self-identify as a girl or a woman and compete (outrageously) in their athletic events.
Also on the front page of the online NYT (published in the last half hour) is the news that:
Michael R. Bloomberg is actively preparing to enter the Democratic presidential primary and is expected to file paperwork this week designating himself as a candidate in at least one state with an early filing deadline, people briefed on Mr. Bloomberg’s plans said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/07/us/politics/michael-bloomberg-president-2020.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#commentsContainer
Obviously that doesn't mean he's running...yet.
"If you try to make a girl fit a boy’s development timeline ... her body is at risk of breaking down."
You mean, like, boys get stronger and fitter from their late teens into their twenties, while women get fatter and less fit, and therefore are at risk of "breaking down" if they strive for maximum fitness, particularly in running, where very pound counts?
Nike is a vile company for a number of reasons.
n.n.
Yup. And it was Nike sponsored LeBron James who stood up for the poor communist dictator too.
Woke is a strategy.
[W]omen and girls are being forced to meet athletic standards that are based on how men and boys develop. If you try to make a girl fit a boy’s development timeline...""
There's no evidence the program is based on male development. Framing the issue as female victimhood appeals to the NYTs left wing base but that element is mythology. The story is that we push large numbers of kids brutally so those who survive are more likely to be champions.
This is the natural evolution in any lottery profession and a good reason to guide your kids away from them.
There's a lotta modern day morons who think there's no difference between men and women. There are several physical and emotional differences, but that is ok. Treat them both with respect.
There's a lotta modern day morons who think it's ok for a male who claims to be a "transexual" female to compete in women sports such as weightlifting, bicycling, even boxing. This is stupid, and grossly unfair to the girls, because the trannies win. Yet, the girls don't protest this absolute nonsense.
At some point, can't we simply return to common sense?
Women and girls are being forced
No they're not.
I'm inclined to believe that greatness in any pursuit is usually transitory. Or is the intent of the article to lay blame for the ultimate failure of this woman's aspirations at the feet of Nike and their sexist coaching regime? (He asked, rhetorically...)
Michael R. Bloomberg is actively preparing to enter the Democratic presidential primary
Just what we need is a short wimpy scold.
Mary Cain could have been a the greatest female distance runner, if only she'd been born a boy.
Yet, the girls don't protest this absolute nonsense.
They have, they do. In the best case, they are told to sit down and shut up. In the worst case, they have been cancelled. First, they came for conservative feminine females... Something about privilege, sociopolitical constructs, bigotry... sanctimonious hypocrisy.
Fernandistein said...
Women and girls are being forced
No they're not.
***********
No? Well, all right then!
Pope Fernandistein has spoken ex cathedra!
I follow Track and Field closer than anyone I know. I knew about Mary Cain long before she signed with Nike. Salazar has been demonized as far back as I can remember, primarily for his success as an individual track athlete and as a coach. ALL track coaches are on their runners to keep their weight down is the athletes has a weight problem. This is just piling on to the bullshit suspension that Salazar was issued for slight rules violations. No NOP or Salazar athlete has ever tested positive for doping. None. Zero. Nike is the biggest and most successful athletic wear corporation. They are the Monsanto of athletic wear and they are similarly demonized. I have often remarked on the letsrun.com message boards, that Salazar Derangement Syndrome is as bad as TDS. I'm sorry that Cain's promising career didn't pan out but a whole lot of other athletes have done very well under NOP and Salazar. She is, by far, an exception.
I was the fastest Ciswoman in America
there! i fixed it for you, you Transphobe freak! Ciswomen have NO PLACE in Sports!
Sports are for REAL women.... You know, the Chix with Dicks
Michael K said...
Female Marathon runner stop menstruating.
Most male marathon runners do not menstruate either. Men can have periods too. Or so I have read.
Something something feminism, something something Trump.
Don't worry, however hard you trained, you would lose to a man who claimed to be a transgender woman.
On May 17, 2013 at the Oxy Distance Classic, Cain ran the 1500 metres in 4:04.62
the same day, in the men's race... Andrew Colley wasn't fast enough to even qualify
Andrew Colley North Carolina St. 3:59.34 not qualified scratched
, in the Boston Terrier Invitational, Cain ran the mile in 4:24.11
Here's an Iowa boy, from back when we ran miles (instead of 1,600 m)
4:07.2, Ed DeLashmutt, Fort Madison, 1976 y, mile run)
Here's an Iowa boy running 1,600m
4:06.32, Josh Evans, Linn-Mar, 2014
Vaginas slow you down!
Comments are stacked up for a couple of hours. Althousers are eating dinner at dinner time again, it seems. Yeesh.
What ever happened to just snacking at the keyboard? rhhardin already told us how to get the crumbs out, for chrissakes.
The obvious but ignored factor here is females are in male sports that are a sport versions of warfare that was engaged in by men from the beginning of time until 1900. Male bodies are required.
How stupid can they be? Babylon Bee is smarter. Common sense is not that hard.
You cucks dream of tranny's all day long hoping Ann will post something, anything that will grant you license to vocalize your fetishes
Watching women fail hilariously at competing with trannies in solo pursuits is amusing. But it means that women versus men in contact-based competition (hockey, football, baseball) is going to be horrific. And not even the UFC wants hype and money badly enough to put men into direct competition with women- that's just overt sadism, even by the standard of right-wing extremists like myself.
No one is applying these lessons to the ultimate sport, military combat, and the impending doom is going to be grotesque. When feminists bemoan the tragedy, wailing about how the icky men let those poor girls down and that's why they got raped/ murdered, I'll be shrugging my shoulders. They were warned.
Bay Area Guy said: "At some point, can't we simply return to common sense?"
That would be nice, but I'm not counting on it happening in my lifetime.
And it may take quite a while after that for it to be rediscovered. Based on my reading of history, things could get quite a bit stupider than this before they get better.
Just in: NYT takes a moment from hassling and trying to disemploy those noticing and remarking that middling-skilled boys in drag are taking wins from hard working girls in sports to pretend to care about girls facing difficulties that might come with huge corporate sponsorships.
Tomcc: "I'm inclined to believe that greatness in any pursuit is usually transitory."
Usually, but not necessarily.
Much depends on one's natural talents, how they are applied, and how selfless one is in their application.
They're playing boys' sports. Proper women's sports depend more on fat and wide hips.
I can't remember the last article I read in the NYT that talks about women specifically or generally and doesn't paint them as victims of a system or specific men. Which is odd, because many feminists worry about society objectifying women and treating them as if they have no agency of their own. And I suspect that the number of people at the NYT that don't consider themselves feminists could be counted on one hand.
That being said, if Cain got involved in the higher tier training at 17, she really wasn't ready to fully understand the consequences of her decisions. Coaches share some of the blame, but primarily it is her parents.
She punished her body. Is she vegetarian? That won’t help her stay strong.
The theory is that fat is necessary for production of estrogen.
Well, it's not that exactly. As a percentage of body mass the amount of sex hormones in the body almost vanishingly small, thus if the relationship of fat to estrogen were chemical then even a starving body would possess sufficient fat for that purpose. The reason is more complicated.
Amongst complex life forms, there are two basic reproductive strategies: r-strategy, characterized by rapid development, early reproduction, small body size, and shorter lifespans, and K-strategy, characterized by slow development, delayed reproduction, large body size, and longer lifespans. Humans are obviously a K-strategy species, which means that reproductive success involves a much higher investment of the parents' lifespan and resources than the r-strategy alternative. Consequently, in times of extreme scarcity, it is advantageous to forego pregnancy lest the baby dies of starvation after nine months in utero, thus wasting a significant portion of a woman's fertile lifespan and perhaps leading to her demise. If humans were entirely rational the ovulation cycle wouldn't need to interrupted by an autonomic mechanism regulating estrogen levels to body fat, a proxy for prosperity. Bad news, honey, the mammoth population has crashed. We'll be sleeping in separate caves for the foreseeable. Nope, sex is too much fun to be rational about. Therefore Ma Nature has given us a mechanism that shuts down ovulation when the potential female parent appears to be under excessive nutritional stress.
Ok.
I actually ran track at the University of Wisconsin. You know, the D1 school.
1) If you're going to run distance, you're not going to do it well if you're over a certain weight. Period. Look at all the best marathoners, men and women. They're basically 2 sticks stuck to a heart and a pair of lungs.
2) When your body type doesn't match your best race you have a choice: Change your best race or change your body type. It's up to the coach and runner to decide which is doable and at what price.
3) Yeah, guys get told to cut weight too. I'd agree it's often harder for women, but I got the lecture if I weighed in over 177 lbs, ever. I'm 6'2". At the time, I was also bench pressing 315 lbs, squatting 500 lbs and had a sub 6% body fat, measured the right way, by UW trainers. Show up at 181 which I did once, and I didn't hear the end of it for a week.
You wanna be a pro? That's the business you choose.
I got my scholarship, graduated, got a job, and am now a fat 190.
Think back to a few days ago when we were all talking about how amazing Simone Biles is--amazing physical accomplishments (especially those achieved by young people) often have a steep cost.
The good news: M to F transexual athletes should be able to take the place of biological F athletes, and they won't "miss" their periods. Win-win!
Agree Fernandistein, this is a choice.
My daughter, now 33, was a highly skilled and athletic (read: fast and physical) soccer player when she was in her early teens through high school. She played for a top school and local, highly ranked club team. She was pressured to participate in what was then called the Olympic Development program from late Spring through Summer. She refused so that she could hang out with her friends over the summer and also take a few weeks at an all girls camp on Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. Mrs. stevew and I would have supported her either way, but were quite pleased by her decision.
Eventually the Olympic Development folks stopped inviting her. She's now a mom of two, happily married, and very successful in her chosen career. All of these are choices she made and committed herself to.
Boys miss their periods, too!
Wait! What!?!? Women are different than men?
When was this discovered? Why can't I find any politician or educator saying this?
Come on, this must be fake news promulgated by evil right wing white male Trump supporters.
One day encouraging women to upset their normal biological rhythm in order to win an athletic competition or for any other reason will be seen as just as crazy as foot-binding in China. Till then I think the only solution is to inject men with female hormones so that instead of women losing hormones, men add them, and everyone is at female levels. I mean (if we aren't going to use common sense any more) then isn't adding hormones to men a more equal way to equalize than causing women to lose hormones?
Blogger mockturtle said...
Female marathon runners often miss periods and develop osteoporosis. The theory is that fat is necessary for production of estrogen
___''''''
What is the value of theory these days - in science?
Does theory mean not proven fact?
Osteoporosis =>> body desperate for fats using cartilage collagen to mitigate deficiency?
Going keto to destructive length.
how the icky men let those poor girls down and that's why they got raped/ murdered
It has already happened: Arab Spring, ISIS, and with immigration reform in the past decade or so, casting couches, #MeTooSelective, Pro-Choice/abortion and other methods of physiological and mental corruption. What's noteworthy, is how the stories have been suppressed for what is at best a "noble cause" corruption. Fortunately, the tell-tale hearts beat ever louder, and the voices and bodies of victims past are never fully sequestered.
Quaestor asserts: Therefore Ma Nature has given us a mechanism that shuts down ovulation when the potential female parent appears to be under excessive nutritional stress.
And you're saying that leads to osteoporosis?
Goldengirl
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0079225/
This story Already made into movie
"We fetishize the rising athletes...."
We who? We sports writers? We op-ed writers? We media people?
Blogger exhelodrvr1 said...
Boys miss their periods, too
______&&&
And more : they want and are ready to make girls miss theirs.
True fact I say
Did I get calcium and fats mixed up?
Educate me.
I wonder how many females coached by Salazar were contacted by Cain and/or her parents before they made this decision. Coaches have reputations among the people they coach and it's not that hard to predict if you'll fit in well. That's what I've observed from the D1 athletes I've known (a sample size of 6).
Many potentially great athletes flame out after College. Cain is not special in that regard.
You can’t win the Darwin without sacrificing something.
(I meant after High School). Good night.
Tomcc: "I'm inclined to believe that greatness in any pursuit is usually transitory."
*************
SO FUCKING WHAT?
That's what breaking records is all about.
You neuron-depleted buffoon.
When feminists bemoan the tragedy, wailing about how the icky men let those poor girls down and that's why they got raped/ murdered, I'll be shrugging my shoulders. They were warned.
It's the dudes that thought the grrrll would handle her spot and instead she needs saving if they don't all get hit that will suffer. As with affirmative action fraidy-cops so will people on the pointy end of things.
Note to Coach Salazar: girls are not small, misshapen boys.
Note to every elementary ed teacher in the country: boys are not little girls with attention deficit. If you can’t teach both girls and then just admit that you’re a failure at your profession and quit.
The Olympics: Good for jingoistic us vs. them manipulation of politically controlled overtaxed citizens often subject to exit taxes unawares, for sluicing Ill-borrowed sovereign debt proceeds to construction firms, for diverting rents to sharp hoteliers with fat hotel taxes siphoned off to pension-addled local municipalities, for sourcing much wasted time and effort and diverted talent of the young for but a few to reap corporate rewards. For all the others after ineligibility or non qualification, what? Insurance sales?
Doesn't matter, she wouldn't be able to beat the MTF trannies who will be winning all women's sports soon.
I wait to see if early research showing marathons crashing immune systems opening one up to disease plays out.
Did I get calcium and fats mixed up?
Educate me.
The deposition of calcium into bones is a complex process and involves more than simply getting adequate calcium in the diet.
Did she have parents or was she left on a mountaintop and raised by a bear?
Maybe the coach was a jerk. Because they're people, lots of coaches are jerks. Having someone lose weight until bones break doesn't seem like very good coaching. But then, you do get to decide whether or not to do what your jerk coach says.
And you're saying that leads to osteoporosis?
No. I'm saying a very low ratio of muscle to fat in women can lead to infertility. Human reproductive physiology can't distinguish female bodybuilder with masculine muscle definition from a woman suffering starvation. Under those conditions, estrogen production is suppressed, which in turn suppresses ovulation.
The relationship between osteoporosis and estrogen wasn't discussed in my physical anthropology courses.
This all started of course with the East German and other Soviet bloc female athletes way back when.
This is a very sad story and it amazes me how sneakers have become the all powerful force in American sports. How much money is spent on Nike sneakers instead of what kids really need. I admit as a kid i wanted Converse All-starts instead of PF Fliers ... but the $9.99 price tag was beyond what my mother was willing to spend.
And ... what about those who are pressuring the alleged trans-gender kids to take radical and often irreversible medical steps? Is this not the same abuse?
How about we start treating our kids as kids and not as corporate or ideological pawns?
This is nothing.
Wait until a trans woman is told to train like a man but demands to train like a woman.
That will be the real PR nightmare for Nike.
Equality, it's a bitch.
Dimorphism: "Do you miss me yet? You will."
“Man who identifies as a woman becomes first woman to win marathon.”
Previously, I would have expected this to be a Babylon Bee headline. Alas...
Lindsay Crouse's last feature story about "female" runners was about Caster Semenya, who is a female, Crouse says, even though she has to take hormones to reduce her "natural" testosterone levels to qualify as female under international rules, which Crouse calls "spectacularly unfair."
Crouse will not say whether Semenya is the exceedingly rare intersex person or a man posing as a woman. This makes for strange non-reporting of the one thing the reporting should be about. Richard Fernandez is right: we have left an age of science for an age of magic. Another way to put it is that we are being prepared for the sort of communist-enforced relentless official lying that humiliates one into submission, as Oleg Atbashian writes. Either way, we had better start trying to repeal hate crime laws in the states, or we will very soon and suddenly kiss free speech goodbye.
Sounds like she's wrong.
I've recently been told that men can have periods.
One-size-fits-all is the newest pseudo-science embraced by the wokiest of the left.
She's probably just sub-par, or at the very least a denier.
Nike can just replace her with a girl who has a dick.
Because some girls have dicks.
Problem solved.
Tina, Semenya apparently has XY chromosomes. Link. That, IMO, should be a deal-breaker and should be the criterion used to determine gender for sports events.
Hold my diet pills, and watch this.
[W]omen and girls are being forced to meet athletic standards that are based on how men and boys develop.
Cool. Now do elementary school boys and academic/behavioral standards...
I assume all elite level sports will eat up and spit out most people, male or female. What's surprised me is how low in the competitive stratum the intensity begins to manifest. As soon as you get out of rec leagues and into travel/club or competitive high school sports, you get extremely dedicated coaches who demand often extreme dedication from their players. This scares me as a parent, more for my girl than my boys, but more for her relative scrupulousness than anything particularly wrong with the way I've seen the coaches train girls.
Howard said...
You cucks dream of tranny's all day long hoping Ann will post something, anything that will grant you license to vocalize your fetishes
Does it hurt, Garbage Howie?
Being you, I mean.
I've recently been told that men can have periods.
What does this in fact mean? Some of these sickos induce rectal bleeding? Gee I wonder how. Get whacked in the kidneys and piss blood? Break into the Linotype and make off with all the punctuation marks?
No one stuck a gun in her back to join Nike... nor do what she did.
Greed is not only the root of all evil.. it's the root of all stupidity.
"Women and girls are being forced to ...". You have no idea how many times I have heard that phrase from my own wife and adult daughter, in regards everything from wearing high-heel shoes, making career choices, dressing provocatively, uniting in matrimony. They believe women are weak and have no agency. They - and the feminists who preach this crap - make the perfect case for a patriarchy.
And another thing, the prominent commenters on the letsrun.com message board who were all talking about Cain's performance decreases during those years and tying the decreases to her weight gain are now Shocked! Shocked! by these horrendous allegations! It's total bullshit piling on to NOP and Salazar. Letsrun has the most active track and field message board that I'm aware of and I have been on there since the early 2000's or so when I started running a lot and following track and field closer.
Screw the transgender comments, that's just using, LOOK a girl's sports topic, to rehash old crap.
What we have here is an athlete near the top of potential champions. Many, male and female, get oh so tantalizingly close. So she, he and or the coaches push to close that tiny gap. Some do it right, some do it wrong, some turn to performance enhancing drugs, MANY just have their gifted bodies break down. Because there is someone out there whose body is a bit better at the particular sport.
It happens.
Maybe the Nike training staff was as stupid as she says. If they actually broke women athletes down I blame stupidity rather than intentional sexism because ANY coach strives for performance and breaking down bodies ain't the way to go. Maybe she just didn't have that last, fractional gift and she can not admit it.
The top of the sports pyramid if mighty slender.
Anyone remember all the East German Olympic female athletes who were disqualified for using steroids to gain muscle mass and thus become more like men?
So...why do we allow biological men to pretend to be women in athletics, to compete against biological women?
What sort of effed up people think this is OK?
wholelottasplainin' recalls: Anyone remember all the East German Olympic female athletes who were disqualified for using steroids to gain muscle mass and thus become more like men?
Yep. And Russian women. I, too, have been wondering how this idiocy can be reconciled.
wholelottasplainin' said:
"That's what breaking records is all about."
Whatever physical attributes she had during high school invariably changed as she matured. Some athletes improve, some regress. So, those attributes are transitory.
Now do you understand?
Being a pro athlete exerts a cost. Some women do not like to be constrained by tradeoffs. They think they can have it all. Especially in athletics, the risk for women is higher than for men. Too little body fat and their estrogen falls, periods stop, premature osteoporosis. This is just the way it is. Many male athletes also don't make it due to injuries. I've known a number of them. High risk profession. Stuff your whining.
It's about power, and wrecking those who speak up. Simple, really. Of a type with globohomo.
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