And, remember, “Tommy” ends with a prayer. A secular prayer to the universe celebrating the spirit of life, the value of suffering, the transformation of suffering into joy. And it’s a death, a hopeful transformation. I wish I were in Tommy’s shoes, in a joyful moment of waking up one day and disappearing into dust. I’m not quite there, and I don’t know whether I will get there. I’ve been waiting, and I’m pushing 75....The last song in "Tommy" — what Townshend is calling a "secular prayer" — is "See Me, Feel Me." Lyrics here. I don't know that I ever thought of that song as Tommy's death. I've seen the movie "Tommy" and I don't remember how the ending was visualized. It's interesting to hear Townshend talking about it like that now.
A hopeful transformation is what I wish for at the end of my life. I would be comfortable with wherever it was. Whether it would be turning to dust or falling into the hands of astral angels or finding myself at the gates of heaven and being turned away.
It's fascinating to think of being comfortable with finding yourself "at the gates of heaven and being turned away." Perhaps just to know that there is a heaven even if it's not for you.
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Pete Townshend is going to heaven, if for no other reason than giving us "Summertime Blues" on "LIve at Leeds".
“Perhaps just to know that there is a heaven even if it's not for you.”
Would it be comforting knowing that none will be turned away, but that rather many will turn away? Or in other words, would it be comforting knowing that every person will get exactly what they truly want, as evidenced by what they sought with their hearts and free will choices?
Or would this be less comforting because it puts the onus on each of us, and we’d rather have someone else own the outcome. (Then we have someone to blame and rail against.)
One of The All-Time Greats. It's weird to know that the people who's music I spent so many hours listening to, are in their mid-70's to 80's. I don't know how that can be when I'm still 23.
Hope I die before I get old.
Remember: if you are going to pay for child porn, don't use your credit card.
Think death will be like coming up from a dive,going hard for the surface and breaking into the sunlight, laughing and taking a huge breath.
One of the downsides of rock stardom is permanent entrapment in one’s adolescent self.
Similar in many ways to the angst the beauty starlet actress eventually suffers over not being considered serious.”
“Somebody’s knocking at the Pearly Gates.”
“Who?”
“Exactly.”
Virgil didn't show Dante the Circle of the Guitar Smashers.
But it's Down There, in amongst the Violent. The shipping address is
Circle VII, Ring 3b
City of Dis
Hell, CA 91210
Tommy the Pinball Wizard. He sure plays a mean pinball.
Pinball, Yes, Pinball. It pre-dates video games. Seemed cool and important back then, now, not so much.
I confess to not knowing all of the rules, but if I was a guessing man I'd say Heaven has a no pedophile clause in there somewhere.
Lawyers go to a hell filled with food but with their elbows frozen straight so that they can't eat. Naturally they feed each other.
Pedophile hysteria is a modern development. Hell is much older than that. It's mostly for cheating on tithes.
As a priest explained it to me once, Hell is filled with souls that have chosen to be there because if you have the desire to be in Heaven, it means you are not completely beyond redemption.
If Keith Richards ends up in Hell, I hope the cast of "Up Up with People" are there too.
There are no rocket scientists in hell because they all figure out how to leave.
Reading the obits to find out of you're dead only works if you're famous.
"I'd rather go to Hell than to Presbyterian Heaven!"
Usually attributed to Mark Twain, and I'm too lazy to look it up.
End of transmission in morse is the prosign SK (sent as a single character without spaces). Amateur magazines have a Silent Keys section listing who's died that month. That's a neat coindidence. It's ruined a little in modern times by other amateurs inheriting the keys from estates, so they're not properly silent any longer.
In fairness, Eddie Cochran gave us Summertime Blues.
I read the whole interview, and now it’s obvious why Pete did not get a lot of groupies.
All we are is dust in the wind (dude)
Quayle said:Or would this be less comforting because it puts the onus on each of us, and we’d rather have someone else own the outcome. (Then we have someone to blame and rail against.)
Free will. Choose your fate.
"Pete Townshend is going to heaven, if for no other reason than giving us "Summertime Blues" on "LIve at Leeds"."
Poor Eddie Cochran died at the age of 21.
The Who didn't change the song that much. Here's Eddie.
“There are no rocket scientists in hell because they all figure out how to leave.” LOL!
Amazingly, Christianity is most rejected because no one believes that good of a promise would ever be kept.
I'm not sure what happens after death. I willing to find out.
"The Who didn't change the song that much. Here's Eddie."
Blue Cheer did a kick-a** version in 1968
To reiterate a link from a day or so ago, in Brit Rock, I prefer:
I'm changing, arranging
I'm changing, I'm changing everything
Ah, everything around me
The world is a bad place
A bad place, a terrible place to live
Oh, but I don't wanna die..
I don't think the point of life is to be comfortable with anything about it past present future and beyond.
Summertime Blues is said to be the only Beach Boys track where David Marks got to sing (until 2012's live album anyway).
Pete is one of my guitar heroes, someone who had such a dynamic style and write songs from the heart. After deep and thorough immersion in Beatles and Stones I saw The Kids Are Alright and the Woodstock film and felt an immediate attraction to Townsend’s guitar work and occasional genius. I suddenly felt free and unconsciously began to mix power chords and regular full-strum chords and piercing individual notes with impunity. Suddenly our songs came to life and each sounded distinct. I started playing the hell out of my red Gibson SG and then had an opportunity to play with Pete in L.A. After playing along to Won’t Get Fooled Again he signed my ax. Yes he always seemed like a tortured artist. But I love Pete like a brother. And I like this story about him. Thanks Althouse.
Blogger rhhardin said...
Pedophile hysteria is a modern development.
Exactly, along with cholera, bleeding cures, wife beating, genocide, slavery...
Emmanance Front
It's fascinating to think of being comfortable with finding yourself "at the gates of heaven and being turned away." Yeah, because people are comfortable losing stuff when they don't know the value. Would he be comfortable with being shown his week's paycheck and then turned away?
@Howard
Don't you think you could find deeper satisfaction by drawing pictures of dripping dicks with a Sharpie on bathroom walls in Interstate Highway rest stops?
You know... that "Call Susie for a good time!" stuff?
You seem needy. And that Biggus Dickus obsession is a little embarrassing. Rest assured, our host doesn't mind that you're a little light in the loafers.
Wow, somebody remembers Blue Cheer. I haven't heard much less thought that name since, well 1968.
Wasn't the name taken from a laundry detergent of that era?
Thanks for letting me know I hit the 10 Ring again Tommy. You're so verklempt you posted the response in the wrong thread.
Blue Cheer's version was pure power rock. Really terrific, and at least the equal -- perhaps even better than -- the Who's version. Theirs was my introduction to the song. I discovered Eddie Cochran after Blue Cheer. His version was rockabilliy-ish, and I liked that too.
As someone with a diagnosis that includes the not totally remote possibility of nearly sudden death at any time, I have learned to accept death, and also to accept that if it should strike me, I will not have the equanimity about it that I have now, I will likely be terrified, but not now. I can live with dying “but once.”
I'm old. I presume I'll be shuffling off within the next five or ten years. I've no great expectation of personal immortality, but life itself is such an unlikely event that I don't rule out the possibility of even unlikelier events in the cosmos. At any rate just the fact that in this vast expanse of dark energy and lifeless matter you got to experience life is itself a kind of divine blessing.
I don't know that Townshend is necessarily saying Tommy dies at the end, only that he is going through a transformation of some sort after his followers reject him and the regimen he requires they adhere to. Any substantial transformation of one's being is a "death" of the old being and a birth of the new. In any case, Pete has a tendency in interviews over time to reshape and reinterpret his ideas and the meanings of his songs.
There's a story by Somerset Maugham. IIRC, a man goes before the Pearly Gates. He says "I'm just relieved to be here. I was afraid that after death there is nothing." St. Peter tells him "Well, you were right the first time" and blows him to oblivion. Maybe nothingness is part of God's plan.
"Perhaps just to know that there is a heaven even if it's not for you."
Such an unprog thing to say. Surely one would envy those rich in blessings. "You didn't earn that!"
Peto said he was just doing research.
...for that bit on 'Uncle Ernie"
@Howard,
No... correct thread.
Look, stick with the Biggus Dickus, the drooling and the bits about how you'd take a hand grenade for your buddies.
Other than that, you're out of your element. Work on your timing.
Stuff about orifices spurting stuff and dick swaggering work best for you. Stick with what you know.
Blue Cheer, yes. Saw them with the Electric Flag in 68.
Oh and Hendrix was on the bill too..
Blogger rhhardin said...
Reading the obits to find out of you're dead only works if you're famous.
Indeed:
Still Not Dead
Willie Nelson
I woke up still not dead again today
The internet said I had passed away
But if I die and I wasn't dead to stay
And I woke up still not dead again today
I wonder if oblivion isn't the thing to be desired. I can certainly imagine far worse fates to await me upon my death, and it isn't even the case that I wouldn't expect to go to Heaven for the evil I have done on Earth- it is just that I don't see a reason to believe that an existence after death has to be Heaven or Hell- it could just be the same for all of us, but far worse than the existence here today. Sure, it could be better, but that is a risk that oblivion prevents. My rationality tells me oblivion it will be, and at one time I hoped it not to be, but doubts gather the older I get.
It is impossible to know if anyone (including oneself) is going to heaven or hell.
At the individual judgment, when one may gaze upon God's glory and know complete happiness, one won't be be turned away. One who has rejected God and repentance their entire lives will turn away of their own free will. That is hell. It is forever.
But as one of my professors of theology said in class one day, hell is a very empty place. The Son of God does not die in vain. Hear Him even if it is your last breath!
I'm with you Yancey. I imagine it is very similar to the dreamless dark void of general anesthesia
Blue Cheer's version was pure power rock. Really terrific, and at least the equal -- perhaps even better than -- the Who's version.
So I went to youtube to hear it. Ugh!
I'm not coming over to your house to listen to records.
Lawyers go to a hell filled with food but with their elbows frozen straight so that they can't eat. Naturally they feed each other.
But they would starve to death while they tried to hammer out an agreement that assured each would get their own version of a "fair share".
NB: All of your liberty and private property that you celebrate literally depends upon competent Lawyers fighting for you by winning your case before a Jury. Being bitterly jealous of accursed lawyers is a privileged but nasty way to go through life. Accursed lawyers include John Adams, Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln.
eddie willers @11:40 AM said: "So I went to youtube to hear it. Ugh!
I'm not coming over to your house to listen to records."
OK, Millennial.
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.” C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce
"Would he be comfortable with being shown his week's paycheck and then turned away?"
Pete's never had that problem. Every trip to the mailbox is Christmas for him.
How about if there is no hell as tradition has portrayed it? How about if even the lowest place was far, far greater than our ability to fathom, and that we’ll each be very comfortable where we end up? What if in the end we’ll all admit that God was entirely merciful and just by giving us chance after chance to grow and learn, and by giving us, in the end, full understanding with even a chance after death to accept all He offers, and we see that He took every soul as far as they were each willing to go.
"How about if there is no hell as tradition has portrayed it."
"There are two ways: the way of life and the way of death. And great is the difference between them" Didache 1:1 (the first teaching document of the Church, "The Teaching of the Apostles", first century AD).
Hell is a necessary state of being if God is a loving God who lets us choose Him, as he lets us choose to love Him or not. By the way, which tradition's depiction of Hell are you referring to?
"Remember: if you are going to pay for child porn, don't use your credit card."
Um... it was just research work, mate.
He always seemed as weird as one would have to be to dive into the depths of depravity.
I will always be amused by the crazed drumming and antics of Keith Moon. Also think that the way John Entwistle went out in Vegas - coked out at 57 years of age - is about as sad as it gets. Both such talented musicians, entertaining and making people happy for years and years succumbing to rock excess. Just plain sucks.
I think “Blue Cheer” got their name from a batch of Owsley acid.
"Pete is one of my guitar heroes, someone who had such a dynamic style and write songs from the heart. After deep and thorough immersion in Beatles and Stones I saw The Kids Are Alright and the Woodstock film and felt an immediate attraction to Townsend’s guitar work and occasional genius."
In his later years, whether due to tinnitus or debilitation, it may not have been all him you heard at live shows. I have a friend that saw a show - may have been solo - in San Francisco, back in the 90s, where they had another guitarist hidden off stage who appeared to be augmenting the guitar work.
How is dying only to find oneself 'dust' a 'hopeful transformation'? I happily observe Eccles's Law, myself, which requires that one not pay any attention to actors except when they are acting or to pop musicians except when they are performing.
"In his later years, whether due to tinnitus or debilitation, it may not have been all him you heard at live shows. I have a friend that saw a show - may have been solo - in San Francisco, back in the 90s, where they had another guitarist hidden off stage who appeared to be augmenting the guitar work."
Pete's younger brother Simon has been a touring member of the band since 1996, playing second guitar. I don't think he has been hidden. In fact, for a period, Pete only played acoustic guitar, while the electric guitar was provided by his brother. Pete has gone back to electric guitar for quite a while now, but his brother still tours with the band, providing second guitar.
In San Francisco, the second guitarist was off-stage and was not visible. The only reason my friend was aware was due to his knowing some of the Fillmore sound production peeps.
OK, Millennial.
Nope. Boomer who hates hair bands where loud equals better.
Quayle: What if in the end we’ll all admit that God was entirely merciful and just by giving us chance after chance to grow and learn,........
I would like to think that we get more than just one ride on the merry-go-round. That this life isn't just a one off and no chance to learn or do better is offered.
Reincarnation is a core belief in many religions and was even a tenet of early Christianity. You live, you do what you do, you die and review the life you lived and possibly get a new life to improve, make amends, help others along in their journey.
Journey to what? That is a big question. Maybe another ride and a chance to catch the brass ring the next time.
That saying, or song, or poem or whatever it was
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you’ve never been hurt.
Dance like nobody’s watching,
and live like it’s heaven on earth.
Can't hurt.
Chance after chance in our one life and even chances after we die.
“ There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; indeed, star differs from star in glory. So it is with the resurrection of the dead.”
I Cor. 15.
Reincarnation is a core belief in many religions and was even a tenet of early Christianity.
The only 'evidence' that I saw in a quick browse online for the assertion that 'reincarnation was a tenet of early Christianity' was unsourced references to Origen and St Clemens of Alexandria on a website the 'most read articles' of which include The Lost Tribe of Clover Hollow – Oldest Civilization in the World Found in Appalachian Mountains? and The Legendary Emerald Tablet and its Secrets of the Universe. The Wikipedia article (I know, I know) for 'reincarnation' jumps from what I consider 'early Christianity' (in the first centuries after Christ; by the way, it mentions St Clemens as an adversary of the notion) to the Cathars and Bogomils of the Middle Ages, who may well have been believers in the transmigration of souls but who were also, by everyone apart from themselves, considered to be heretics of the worst sort. The case of Origen is more or less sui generis in that his exegetical work is highly valued and his devotion to Christ undoubted but it's also true that it was recognized in his lifetime that he held certain non-Christian opinions: hence he is not numbered amongst the Fathers nor is he venerated as a saint.
On the other hand, I notice that it's reported that 25% of Christians in the US profess to believe in 'reincarnation'.
chickelit: I can believe that. There were many colorful names back then (Yellow Sunshine, Purple Rain, etc) but I don't think Owlsley trademarked any of them ;-) or enforced them if he had.
Still, wasn't there a detergent called that also?
Well, he'll find out.
We'll all find out.
Nope. Boomer who hates hair bands where loud equals better.
A Boomer who never before heard Blue Cheer's version of Summertime Blues. Odd.
I would like to think that we get more than just one ride on the merry-go-round.
What a gyp if we don't.
Well, then...life is a gyp!
Shouting Thomas said...
@Howard,
No... correct thread.
Look, stick with the Biggus Dickus, the drooling and the bits about how you'd take a hand grenade for your buddies.
Howie said THAT? Seems very unlike him.
Blogger rhhardin said...
Pedophile hysteria is a modern development.
What a drag, right? Back in your day it was no big deal. I'm sure you found it much easier to operate.
OTOH...Matthew 18:6
“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
So not that modern.
Consider all those lower life forms, all those dinosaurs, all those myriads of animals who have inhabited this Earth, including the pre-Homo Sapien hominids.
You gonna tell me that God suddenly changed the rules for US? That He created a Heaven for US, while all the rest of the Animalia who have ever lived just get to rot and disappear?
Thanks a pantload for evolving into modern species, including humans!
Did Neanderthals go to Heaven? Did Cicero, Aristotle or the non-Christian ancients? I think Dante had a place for them in Limbo or Purgatory, but......how conveeenient to create exceptions for pagans the Christians liked.
Buncha marlarkey.
As for me: after five days emerging from the most ferocious cold of my life, I'm more of a mind to accept the maxim:
"Death is Nature's way of telling you to slow down."
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