November 11, 2019

Donald Trump Jr. — talking about his book "Triggered" at UCLA — was heckled offstage by "diehard Make America Great Again conservatives."

The Guardian reports.
The audience was angry that Trump Jr and his girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle, would not take questions. The loud shouts of “USA! USA!” that greeted Trump when he first appeared on the stage of a university lecture hall to promote his book Triggered: How The Left Thrives on Hate and Wants to Silence Us quickly morphed into even louder, openly hostile chants of “Q and A! Q and A!”...

When the shouting would not subside, Trump Jr tried – and failed – to argue that taking questions from the floor risked creating soundbites that leftwing social media posters would abuse and distort. Nobody was buying that....

The fiasco pointed to a factional rift on the Trump-supporting conservative right that has been growing rapidly in recent weeks, particularly among “zoomers” – student-age activists....

Two [supporters of Nick Fuentes, a 21-year-old activist with a podcast called America First, said that] the pro-Trump movement was being infected with “fake conservatism” and that the president himself was at the mercy of a cabal of deep state operatives who wouldn’t let him do many of the things he campaigned on.... “We wanted to ask questions about immigration and about Christianity, but they didn’t want to face those questions.”
I'm creating a new tag, "Trump attacked from the right." I had a comparable tag for Obama, "Obama attacked from the left." We'll see where the hard-core right attack on Trump (and son) goes. The tag is here to collect the stories. It's very interesting that Trump Jr. went to UCLA with his book "Triggered," perhaps as some sort of demonstration of his own courage and to cause liberals to act triggered and prove his point. That's not what happened!

That's the story as told by The Guardian. The Washington Post has "Donald Trump Jr. went to UCLA to decry ‘triggered’ liberals. He was heckled offstage by the far right." If you get far enough into the WaPo article, there's an indication that the protesters were not against Trump Jr. but against Turning Point USA:
Fuentes, 21, appeared to take credit for the protests on Sunday evening.... “Our problem is not with [Trump Jr.] who is a patriot — We are supporters of his father!” he tweeted. “Our problem is with Charlie Kirk’s TPUSA organization that SHUTS DOWN and SMEARS socially conservative Christians and supporters of President Trump’s agenda. We are AMERICA FIRST!”...

For weeks, Fuentes has been railing against Turning Point USA, which once invited him to speak at Iowa State University, and the more mainstream wing of the pro-Trump movement. On Nov. 4, he directed his fans to show up to Turning Point USA events and heckle speakers during question-and-answer segments. The 21-year-old’s fans have been harassing Kirk at several recent Turning Point USA events on college campuses.

“They’re literally campaigning for Trump and they have to discriminate against his voters,” Fuentes said in a YouTube video last week. “We’re going to make it known that that’s exactly what it is: a controlled conversation. People do not go to a ‘free speech’ thing and get dragged to the back of the line, kicked out, because they don’t fit the profile of what a questioner is supposed to look like.”

80 comments:

Mattman26 said...

Any time the MSM ascribes something to the “far right,” my bullshit meter goes to 11.

Fernandinande said...

That's story as told by The Guardian. The Washington Post has "Donald Trump Jr. ...heckled offstage by the far right."

So we know that didn't happen, because sources.

rehajm said...

Yah, either false flag or too much inside softball to worry about yet...

J. Farmer said...

Two [supporters of Nick Fuentes, a 21-year-old activist with a podcast called America First, said that] the pro-Trump movement was being infected with “fake conservatism” and that the president himself was at the mercy of a cabal of deep state operatives who wouldn’t let him do many of the things he campaigned on.... “We wanted to ask questions about immigration and about Christianity, but they didn’t want to face those questions.”

Amen and hallelujah to that!

Nonapod said...

My initial impression is that college age kids are generally a bit more impulsive, excitable, enthusiastic, and aggressive than older people, like your typical Trump rally attendee. I don't imagine this will prove to be indicative of some sort of trend of Trump supporters turning on each other (despite how much many would rejoice if it was).

Lurker21 said...

#TrumpAttackedFromTheRight - They don't understand that politics isn't a culture war. It's more limited and focused on policy. It's not about getting self-esteem by winning (or not mostly about that). It's about attaining more practical objectives. You have to be contented with partial successes, rather than total victories.

#ObamaAttackedFromTheLeft - Pretty much the same thing, except what they wanted was economic changes, rather than socio-cultural ones. They didn't understand that you need to keep the economic motor running to get the things they wanted (and that nobody gets everything they want, most of all them).

J. Farmer said...

@Nonapod:

You can recognize that Trump is the best option while simultaneously understanding that the best option is not good enough.

traditionalguy said...

The restriction on gotcha questions worked. The MAGA movement was not turned used to create a division that used to work by dividing Republicans along secular and religious fanatics lines. Trump is for both groups.

rcocean said...

To the media everyone to the Right of Mitt Romney is at least "far Right". I don't know anything about Fuentes, but I do know Kirk is another FAKE CON. Just like Ben Shapiro. I understand the "respectable Right" problem. There are always some goofy Neo-Nazis (many of them Moby's) who want to hitch a ride on their movements or blogs and subvert them or use them. This results in "respectable Right-wingers" going to other extreme and banning anyone the liberals might dislike. So, you end up with either a neutered Right that supports people like Mittens, or a bunch of FAKE CONS.

Charlie Kirk and TPUSA is just another branch of Conservative Inc. designed to siphon off any true conservatism energy/passion into harmless, Establishment approved, channels. 10-1 Kirk supported Rubio of Yeb! in 2016.

Sebastian said...

"far right" = enforcing immigration laws and respecting Christianity

"You can recognize that Trump is the best option while simultaneously understanding that the best option is not good enough."

But then the next question is: what to stress? We rational deplorables stress that Trump is the best option and therefore deserves support. Never-enough righties and Never Trumpers stress that the best is not good enough. In small doses, that can help, when overdone, it undermines the best option and promotes much worse.

narciso said...

this was the previous big thing, just a year ago,


https://nypost.com/2019/11/10/aoc-was-even-more-wrong-about-williamsburg-than-wed-thought/

well what was the question,

narciso said...

the zombie hordes will not be deterred,


https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/11/election-aftermath.php

J. Farmer said...

Charlie Kirk and TPUSA is just another branch of Conservative Inc. designed to siphon off any true conservatism energy/passion into harmless, Establishment approved, channels. 10-1 Kirk supported Rubio of Yeb! in 2016.

Agree completely. I recently tried to watch a debate at Politicon between Charlie Kirk and Kyle Kulinski, and it was utterly embarrassing.

rcocean said...

Isn't it interesting how the Liberal Media is Always talking about the "far right" and "KKK" "Neo Nazis" and NEVER about the "Far Left" or "Neo-Communists". How many realize we have a large, very active Communist Party in the USA? Or that outnumbers the KKK/Neo-Nazis' by 100 to 1. But no one talks about it in the media. How often does anyone in the MSM criticize Antifa?

Hell, the MSM went batshit crazy when Trump said they were thugs who were attacking people. We live in this weird, crazy, Media made political world that doesn't correspond to reality.

wendybar said...

Nick Fuentes is part of the "Groypers" Nick Fuentes is a radio host who is famous for bashing Jews and attending the Charlottesville riots. He's far from being a conservative. He is an idiot. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/10/very-disturbing-nick-fuentes-and-his-groypers-infiltrated-the-tpusa-event-last-night-and-bashed-gays-and-jews-video/

rcocean said...

I recently tried to watch a debate at Politicon between Charlie Kirk and Kyle Kulinski, and it was utterly embarrassing.

I hope it was less embarrassing then the Ben Shapiro- Andrew Neil BBC "interview"

J. Farmer said...

@Sebastian:

Never-enough righties and Never Trumpers stress that the best is not good enough. In small doses, that can help, when overdone, it undermines the best option and promotes much worse.

The problem with the Never Trumpers is not that they "stress that the best is not good enough." It's that they have an entirely different vision of what "the best" is. The support GOP Inc types like John McCain and Mitt Romney.

The problem with the Ever Trumpers is that they think anytime Trump wins a new cycle, it's a victory, even as the war is slowly grinding them down.

J. Farmer said...

I hope it was less embarrassing then the Ben Shapiro- Andrew Neil BBC "interview"

Ha. How could it not be? Shapiro's pathetic storm off is the gold standard of embarrassing behavior. I guess that's what happens when you make a YouTube career out of "DESTROYING" college freshmen.

narciso said...

they are very good at not winning, and then serving like basenghi dogs, to progressives,

narciso said...

that's embarrassing, now neil is a sharp interviewer, who doesn't suffer fools,

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

I'm finding myself in agreement with J Farmer here.

hombre said...

Blah, blah, blah. Jr. is not the President and is certainly not obliged to answer questions so the media can export his answers.

Moby hecklers.

Yancey Ward said...

I think the point has to be made here- how, exactly, does one think Turning Point USA has managed to survive on a campus like UCLA? When you can answer that question, you might then be in a position to understand why some on the right might be antagonistic towards it.

Sebastian said...

@Farmer:

"The problem with the Never Trumpers is not that they "stress that the best is not good enough." It's that they have an entirely different vision of what "the best" is. The support GOP Inc types like John McCain and Mitt Romney."

True in a way. But rationally speaking, Never Trumpers should view Trump as the "best option", considering his actions on judges, immigration, deregulation, even China and NATO should. They do not have an "entirely different vision."

"The problem with the Ever Trumpers is that they think anytime Trump wins a new cycle, it's a victory, even as the war is slowly grinding them down."

There are different kinds of Ever Trumpers. Most will take victories as victories, bolstering the "best option," realizing that there is no way to avoid the war that is grinding them down. Who better to deal with the grinding? Nikki Haley?

Yancey Ward said...

And guess what I found on my very next page visit this morning- here is a writer who can clue you in to the inside baseball aspect of this.

J. Farmer said...

@Sebastian:

True in a way. But rationally speaking, Never Trumpers should view Trump as the "best option", considering his actions on judges, immigration, deregulation, even China and NATO should. They do not have an "entirely different vision."

Immigration, China, and NATO are some of the exact reasons that Never Trumpers hate Trump. They support the Establishment position on these issues as exemplified by Bush and Obama. The Establishment does not care about partisan labels so long as the person in the White House delivers on their agenda. But the Establishment does love partisan bickering among the masses because it gets them fighting on relatively stupid issues (Bush is Hitler, Obama is an Islmao-Communist) while ignoring that they are essentially two sides to the same coin.

There are different kinds of Ever Trumpers. Most will take victories as victories, bolstering the "best option," realizing that there is no way to avoid the war that is grinding them down. Who better to deal with the grinding?

No, I think Nikki Haley is a disaster. Another example of Trump's godawful personnel decisions. I don't think Trump really is dealing with the grinding. He's merely making it more palatable.

Robert Cook said...

You have to love clever and industrious prankers!

rcocean said...

"No, I think Nikki Haley is a disaster."

She's the sort of person that makes Republican/Conservative hearts go pitter-pat. She's cute, she's a POC, she's (sorta) a conservative. Look at the Right-wing love for Tulsi, and she's a leftist! But she took on Hillary - so she's their pin-up Gal.

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

Robert Cook said...

"How many realize we have a large, very active Communist Party in the USA?"

How large and active--and more significant, how influential--is it? I checked and found that its national membership is only 5,000. In other words, minuscule. There are 1.5 million self-proclaimed witches in the US. What are these nefarious witches going to do to us with their witchy powers? Who will sound the alarm?

rcocean said...

We're damn lucky we got Trump. And whatever Trump has accomplished, he's done on his own. If he gets re-elected in 2020, then the Right-wing had better start finding boosting a successor. They didn't with Reagan, and we ended up with George Bush.

Birkel said...

Once again my standard response is disbelieving the MSM.
Their attempts to talk louder will not overwhelm my intent not to be sold.

rcocean said...

Given the Communist Party has always kept a list of "Secret" Members you can be sure its in excess of "5,000". You always have the following Communist Splinter Groups:

- The workers World Party
- Party for Socialism and Liberation
- Revolutionary Communist party
- American Party of Labor
- Progressive Labor Party

And of course, there are various Anarchist parties that in many ways are even more anti-Christian and anti-Ameircan then the communists. It should be noted that all these parties are on Facebook/Twitter/Youtube and experience ZERO censorship. you can call "White people the cancer of the human race" and our media masters will applaud. Say "Being White is OK" and they will try to destroy you.

bagoh20 said...

"You can recognize that Trump is the best option while simultaneously understanding that the best option is not good enough."

True enough as a generality , but the facts of this particular choice is what matters. To make that statement about Trump you have to be able to answer the following:

From a conservative's point of view, who has ever done better in their 1st 3 years? What other candidate from 2016 would have, espcially considering what we now know the left is willing to do to win or to destroy any Republican who does.

Voltaire: “The best is the enemy of the good.”
Confucius: "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without."

I would offer that usually even the very best choice appears less than adequate compared to imaginary ones.

bagoh20 said...

What a surprise, a Trump bashing headline that doesn't match the facts. That never happens.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

From a conservative's point of view, who has ever done better in their 1st 3 years? What other candidate from 2016 would have, espcially considering what we now know the left is willing to do to win or to destroy any Republican who does.

Let me answer you by way of an analogy. Imagine you have a bomb that is going to detonate unless it can be defused in under two minutes. All the great bomb defusers in the world need at least 3 minutes. And then comes along Trump, the greatest, fastest, bestest bomb defuser there ever was. He can do it in 2 minutes 15 second. Great! But you still blow up.

Robert Cook said...

"...there are various Anarchist parties that in many ways are even more anti-Christian and anti-Ameircan then the communists. It should be noted that all these parties are on Facebook/Twitter/Youtube and experience ZERO censorship. you can call 'White people the cancer of the human race' and our media masters will applaud. Say 'Being White is OK' and they will try to destroy you.

Do you suggest they should be censored? Why? They enjoy the same rights that all Americans purportedly do, (freedom of speech and assembly, etc., etc.). But, again...how many people, all told, can be counted up among all these various off-shoots and/or variants of the Communist Party? How much actual influence do they have on...anything? What do our "media masters" have to do with with the Communist-and-assorted-offshoot parties? Our "media masters" are employed by the corporate behemoths who own the media, and who are in no way communists.

bagoh20 said...

" Great! But you still blow up."

Then all choices are equal; none can help. It might be true, but impossible to know, and therefore useless in making a choice. We don't know what the timer is set to, so wouldn't we still want the best defuser, or in this case best disruptor? That is and was definitely Trump.

I think any other Republican would have also been treated very badly by the press and the Dems, and even if less severely would have caved long ago from it. Trump may be the perfect and only choice who could weather the hypocrisy, deviousness, and treason of the left today.

narciso said...

like mark Lloyd, he was the lead figure in the fcc, who spoke off how stamping out private media, was the key to 'chavez' wonderful revolution' or van jones who turned to Marxism after the wall fell, but decided cap and trade environmental policies were better vehicles for his goals.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

Trump may be the perfect and only choice who could weather the hypocrisy, deviousness, and treason of the left today.

That can all be true, and he can still fail. Immigration, both legal and illegal, are continuing unabated, and there are 14,000 more US troops in the middle east than before he took office.

rcocean said...

Dr. Trump isn't going to cure the disease. Dr. Trump has given the patient 4 or maybe 8 more years to find the way to a cure. New, unforeseen, drugs and medical techniques have saved "terminal" patients before. Dr. Reagan and Gorbachev brought Russia back from the dead. There's always hope.

bagoh20 said...

"That can all be true, and he can still fail. Immigration, both legal and illegal, are continuing unabated, and there are 14,000 more US troops in the middle east than before he took office."

Got a source for that? I've read that illegal immigration is declining due additions to the barriers, and the Mexicans cooperating with Trump. And when did these additional troops go there and why? Troops added as a deterrent at sea or in safe areas are not the same thing as active combat troops, but even those should not be 14K extra.

rcocean said...

Our "media masters" are employed by the corporate behemoths who own the media, and who are in no way communists.

But strangely tolerant and uncritical of the Far Left. In fact, the entire history of those corporate "Behemoths" NYT and WaPo shows an odd hatred of anyone too anti-communist, and a rather odd liking for any communist. Its as if the Communists and themselves were allies in a fight against "The Right". Remember "Occupy wall Street"? What was the real purpose of that? We heard lots of anti-corporate rhetoric, and then it just "disappeared". Like the whole thing was just Controlled opposition.

rcocean said...

Trump could do more if the Obama Judiciary wasn't blocking him at every move. Or if the Big Donor supported, or the open-borders RINo's in the Senate would help enforce the immigration laws.

Really this is getting absurd. Trump is all alone in DC. He's doing everything he can, and all people want to do is criticize HIM! Yeah, lets not talk about the 92% negative MSM coverage, the Democrat Run house, an out of control Left wing Judiciary, or backstabbing RINO's like Mittens, and Chamber of Commerce. No, Trump hasn't single-handed done EVERYTHING.

Amadeus 48 said...

Some folks love wandering in the wilderness.

Someone that I disagree with 25% leaves 75% agreement. There are deals to be made. I think a lot of folks around here must have liked it the last time the GOP had a majority in the House, but couldn’t agree, so the GOP agenda died. Government by continuing resolution continues! Pelosi is setting the agenda! Impeachment!

That’ll show ‘em.

rcocean said...

Everytime Trump tries to withdraw one solider than all of DC goes Bat-shit crazy. Trump hasn't gotten us into any more useless wars. I'm grateful for that. I'm sure we'd be at war somewhere if Hillary had been elected. No lie.

Robert Cook said...

"But strangely tolerant and uncritical of the Far Left."

I don't know if that's so, as you would have to give me some examples. In any case, the "far left" is a marginal presence in the US, with marginal impact. (I'm sure you see it differently, as you likely imagine the "far left" as a vast and powerful force in our country.)

J. Farmer said...

Everytime Trump tries to withdraw one solider than all of DC goes Bat-shit crazy. Trump hasn't gotten us into any more useless wars. I'm grateful for that. I'm sure we'd be at war somewhere if Hillary had been elected. No lie.

Totally agree about Hillary's warmongering, and the fact that the Establishment loves war. But consider that Trump is commander-in-chief and totally has the power to bring these troops home. Neither Congress nor the judiciary can stop him from doing it. And even then he can't get it done.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

Got a source for that?

"Since May, the Department of Defense has increased the number of forces by approximately 14,000 to the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility as an investment into regional security." -DOD Statement on Deployment of Additional U.S. Forces and Equipment to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (11 Oct 2019)

A crisis on the southern border by Chris Chmielenski, a member of Numbers USA.

Sheridan said...

J. Farmer - here on Veterans Day, I reflect on all those men and women in the armed forces who gave their lives in service to the Constitution and the USA. I don't know but deeply suspect that each one of our dead military, just prior to their death probably wanted to prevail in the action in which they were engaged and survive. But they didn't. They failed to survive. But that is not a failure of their purpose and intent.
You have highlighted Trump's many failures and you are not wrong. But still Trump continues to fight in spite of the powers arrayed against him. Will he win all of these fights? And even if he wins enough to survive, will that be an indicator that he advanced the very best solutions to the problems facing the country and that he won over the greater part of the population? The likelihood is no but as with our military dead, that will not be a failure of Trump’s purpose and intent.
I see his purpose and intent as the denial of “status quo ante”. He’s a fighter and though he’s terribly flawed, he is and will remain my Hector (or Horatius at the bridge if you prefer survivors). What other option is there at this point in time?

Howard said...

No true conservative unless cowtow to Trump Inc.

J. Farmer said...

@Sheridan:

If I thought that the solution to what ailed America was a good pep talk, then I would agree with you. But I see very little point in being "a fighter," if you can't actually achieve what it is you are fighting for. If you put all your money on a fighter, and he gets KO'd in the second round, you can admire his fighting spirit all you want; you still lose. The ethnic core that built the social, cultural, and political bedrock of this country is being replaced by a new people. That is why the social, cultural, and political bedrock of this country is experiencing so much seismic activity, and as the replacement continues the seismic activity will increase. There is nothing magic about our soil. You replace the people, you will get a new nation.

If Trump is our Hector, then that makes us Troy. Pay no attention to that massive trojan horse known as immigration. If the Californization of America sounds good to you, then by all means rejoice.

rcocean said...

"Neither Congress nor the judiciary can stop him from doing it. And even then he can't get it done."

First, Congress CAN keep from Trump from doing it. They can pass a law anytime they want.

Second, you're forgetting political reality. Trump - for example - tries to retreat from Afghanistan. All of DC, including the MSM, the generals, Mitch McConnell, etc. goes bat-shit crazy. Everyone warns Trump that withdrawing from Afghanistan will cause ISIS to be resurgent and will attack the USA if we withdrew. Trump stands by his guns, and withdraws. A terrorist attack occurs. End of Trump. This is why we're still in Afghanistan. You gotta remember that Trump will gain about 100 votes if he pulls out, and lose a million votes if he pulls out and the terrorists attack us.

I think Trump will be much more aggressive in 2021 - if reelected.

rcocean said...

"There is nothing magic about our soil. You replace the people, you will get a new nation."

Either defeat is, and always was, inevitable, or Trump will delay it and give us a chance to win. In either case, blame the country not Trump. Nobody forced Alabama to vote for Doug Jones, after voting for Trump 60-40. Nobody forced Utah to nominate Never-trumper Mittens as the replacement for Orin Hatch. Nobody forced the American people to give Pelosi the House. One fights because it is the right thing. No one is guaranteed victory.

mezzrow said...

You need to go back and follow that link from Yancey Ward, if you missed it. Our friend J. Farmer understands. The goal is to fight and win when winning is possible. This is not that time. I'll be long gone by the time that happens.

Most of our new residents couldn't care less about the founding fathers and separation of powers. They're here for our stuff. Conservative Inc., exists to get paid and consistently give ground while making it look like there's a bit of a struggle going on. For them, the age of Trump is an unwanted interruption to business as usual. Only the Never Trumpers tell you what they really think. We get lip service from the rest.

rcocean said...

"I don't know if that's so, as you would have to give me some examples."

You can look at the whole goddamn history of the WaPo/NYT and their coverage of Alger hiss, the Soviet Union 1919-1949, Joe Stalin, Joe McCarthy, etc. They never met a commie they didn't like, or an anti-communist they loved.

rcocean said...

"No true conservative unless cowtow to Trump Inc."

Its Cowtowns howard.

J. Farmer said...

@rcocean:

First, Congress CAN keep from Trump from doing it. They can pass a law anytime they want.

Oh, get off it. Now you're just trying to be Trump's spin doctor. Trump won't remove troops from Syria because Congress might pass a law to stop it? What then explains Trump's decision to deploy 3,000 troops to Saudi Arabia?

End of Trump. This is why we're still in Afghanistan.

I must've missed during the campaign when you were telling everyone that Trump's promises to end wars was bullshit and that the troops would stay because it was good political optics. If that's truly Trump's motivation, it doesn't make him a fighter, it makes him a pathetic opportunism to stand on the bodies of dead soldiers and use them as campaign props.

One fights because it is the right thing. No one is guaranteed victory.

So Trump not withdrawing troops from pointless wars is the "right thing?" Because two seconds earlier you said he wasn't doing it because it was too politically risky.

In either case, blame the country not Trump.

Oh, believe me, I've been harping on these issues since before Trump was even a reality TV star. There is plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't all belong on Trump. But some of it does.

Tim Wright said...

Best explanation for this is at the Zman.

http://thezman.com/wordpress/

My own take is that Turning Point, Kirk, as well as Ben Shapiro are establishment front men, designed to undercut conservatives who oppose immigration, among other issues. They are fake.

Nichevo said...

rcocean said...
Given the Communist Party has always kept a list of "Secret" Members you can be sure its in excess of "5,000". You always have the following Communist Splinter Groups:

- The workers World Party
- Party for Socialism and Liberation
- Revolutionary Communist party
- American Party of Labor
- Progressive Labor Party


Or the Working Families Party in NY, a known (Cook will deny) communist front, with over 50,000 members, and a strong influence on/supporter of Red Bill de Blasio.

bagoh20 said...

From Farmer:

" -DOD Statement on Deployment of Additional U.S. Forces and Equipment to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (11 Oct 2019)"

As I said, added troops to relatively safe non-combat deployments to prevent conflict - not to engage in it. That makes sense to me.

As for immigration:

"A crisis on the southern border by Chris Chmielenski, a member of Numbers USA. "

That was in April 2019. See the government chart below that shows a precipitous drop since then, back to 2016 levels. Trump has been fought all the way on this by hypocrites and proven liars with fake photos and video, and stopped by overreaching judges who see themselves as some kind of super-executive branch, yet Trump still found a way to get it done, and guess what: Mexico is paying for it!

Wouldn't you call that a success despite stiff opposition and long odds. In fact, it was deemed impossible by "experts". I, for one, am impressed, becuase nobody else would have gotten that. They would have quit.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Sheridan said...

Win, lose, live, die - doesn't really matter. It's whine or fight time. Fight in a delaying action if need be. Work to assimilate new people if possible, save chunks of our culture and heritage if possible. Too late for us in our lifetimes no doubt. But what might the future record show? The record written 20 generations from now? I have my eye on that future event.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

See the government chart below that shows a precipitous drop since then, back to 2016 levels.

So Trump's big success on immigration was that he got illegal entries down to the levels they were the year before he became president? Ooookay.

As I said, added troops to relatively safe non-combat deployments to prevent conflict - not to engage in it. That makes sense to me.

Right, when have US troops in Saudi Arabia ever caused us any problems? And Syria, Irag, and Afghanistan are not "safe non-combat deployments." And Trump has already signed on to an indefinite deployment of US troops to Afghanistan and an open-ended commitment in Syria. For a president who campaigned on ending wars, don't you think it'd be nice if he actually, you know, ended a war?

hstad said...

"...Donald Trump Jr. — talking about his book "Triggered" at UCLA — was heckled offstage by "diehard Make America Great Again conservatives."
The Guardian reports...?" This is from "The Guardian"? Trying to remember when I heard that UCLA was conservative - LOL! Or better yet - when did the Leftists allow conservatives to have a function at UCLA?

Mary Beth said...

What's the deal with UCLA? Now they've lost the Dem debate.

Sheridan said...

Yeah, we're the new Troy. Destroyed from within as is plain to see. Will a new Virgil write the history of a future America? I hope so. History won't stop with our current plight and I prefer the long-view; say, 500 years from now. We'll either have succumbed not only as a culture but as a species or we'll have figured something out. The struggle for Liberty is in the genome, I think.

bagoh20 said...

"So Trump's big success on immigration was that he got illegal entries down to the levels they were the year before he became president? Ooookay."

Yes, I do find a 64% drop from 144K down to 52K in four months to be pretty damned impressive. It's a level just slightly above the bottom of the chart which goes back to 2014 as well. And all while being opposed by the media, the Congress, Obama judges, and an unprecedented effort by well-funded leftists and immigration groups both here and in Latin America doing all they can to encourage and assist illegal incursions precisely at this time. What alternative President would have done better against that? Just give me a name; you got 300 million to pick from.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

What alternative President would have done better against that? Just give me a name; you got 300 million to pick from.

Oh for the love of god. That is precisely my point. Sometimes even the best isn't good enough. If the best gets you 2016 levels of illegal immigration, then the best is a failure. And we haven't even mentioned legal immigration, which poses nearly as big a threat to the US than illegal immigration.

J. Farmer said...

@Sheridan:

History won't stop with our current plight and I prefer the long-view; say, 500 years from now.

500 years, are you joking? Non-white births already outpace white births today. Americans of European ancestry will be less than half the population in the next couple of decades. Demographic change is already working its magic on places like Virginia, Texas, and Florida. Look at the problems we have with diversity today (racial bean counting, removing historical statues, etc.) and think what will happen with those problems as we become more diverse with each passing year.

bagoh20 said...

"For a president who campaigned on ending wars, don't you think it'd be nice if he actually, you know, ended a war?"

What we are engaging in is combat, but not wars by any historic measure. And since it is not a "war" that anybody expects to actually win, what matters is are we getting our people killed more or less in these efforts to prevent a real war. The answer is Trump, so far, is getting less killed. US active military deaths are down by 66% in 2018 from 2017 (~900 to ~ 300). 2019 is on pace to be even lower. The numbers are a great improvement. They are so low now that virtually any attack will cause an increase by multiples.

bagoh20 said...

"Oh for the love of god. That is precisely my point. Sometimes even the best isn't good enough."

So what is the point, Eeyore? Trump can't make the world perfect in three years? Agreed, but I'm just looking for things to go in the right direction which many, many things are. When was the better time with the safer, better present, and brighter future?




J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

Agreed, but I'm just looking for things to go in the right direction which many, many things are.

2016 levels of illegal immigration is moving in the right direction? A million plus legal immigrants per year is moving in the right direction? Trillion-plus dollar deficits per year is moving in the right direction? Open ended commitments in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia are moving in the right direction? The demographic trends are moving in the right direction? European-Americans are heading for minority status in this country. What do you think will happen with identity politics as the country becomes ever more multi-ethnic? As I said before, if the Californization of America sounds good to you, then by all means rejoice.

bagoh20 said...

Farmer, I share your anxiety about those things, but there have been darker times, and people find a way despite the solutions being out of sight at the moment. Many of those fears went unsubstantiated in the past, and we have been predicting disaster for our entire existence. Trump is not the whole solution, but just the absolutely necessary first step. If he loses reelection, then I do fear for the country, but right now the real scary stuff is not on the horizon. Nobody is shooting missiles at us, or even planning to, no foreign troops are on our border, we are not on the verge of a real civil war despite the rhetoric. We are not losing our homes, jobs, and life savings. We are just starting to turn the ship. Calmer heads will eventually prevail, or we water the tree of liberty and start over. I think the free-minded are more dedicated and more willing to make real sacrifices for their values, becuase they actually have them, know what they are, and can tell you why they matter. I see that resolve more than ever in people for the first time, and that's the real untold story out here.

J. Farmer said...

@bagoh20:

but right now the real scary stuff is not on the horizon.


How Voters Turned Virginia From Deep Red to Solid Blue

roesch/voltaire said...

Turns out the protestors are part of the extreme right wing of Trump supporters. Talk about a movement coming back to bite one in the ass,mormDonald.

Milwaukie guy said...

The Democratic Socialists of American claim 45,000 members, including a number of congress critters. The number of organized communists and socialists is well over 100,000.

Says a former member of the RCP.

Milwaukie guy said...

Also, as much as I've valued J Farmer's comments, I'm starting to skip over them. Pessimism is one thing, I prefer to take an optimistic view and discuss how it might happen. You are becoming very sour.

Seeing Red said...

Virginia is a company town and the republicans gave it up.

JamesB.BKK said...

It's odd that a person calmly asking (or wishing to ask) a question the speaker in a supposedly participatory forum does not wish to answer honestly (and also refuses to so state) is there in order to "heckle" the speaker. Odder still is that the Guardian is spinning this story so as to protect Trump Jr. and as Ann noted Turning Point USA from scrutiny. That, of course, lends support to some of the claims of Fuentes and his ilk about the controlled opposition aspects of Turning Point USA. Remember the Maine. Remember the Liberty.

The Vault Dweller said...

I'm assuming he did not want to take questions because he is not confident in his ability to respond to difficult questions. Which is a shame because he needs to develop that ability if he wants to continue to take a role in championing his dad's presidency, and the only way to develop that skill is to practice it. His father is really good at it. He can read the energy of the room and even if someone in the room asks a question or makes a statement about something he would not do, he can distance himself and not endorse it without tamping down on the energy in the room.

Tina Trent said...

I find I have even less patience for the Nevertrump/Charlie Kirk/Ben Shapiro types when I'm stuck in traffic listening to Erick Erickson bloviate about how it's only people like him, Kirk, and Ben Shapiro who understand rational choice theory or some other George Mason University fantasy libertarian pseudo-logical bullshit.

You know who I want for president in 2024? Pat Sajak. With Alex Trebec as VP. I'll take either or both of them alive or dead. Who the hell else will there be? I might vote for J. Farmer. Pessimism is the last refuge of the truly optimistic.