October 17, 2019

"Vice President Mike Pence on Thursday agreed to a deal with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that accepted a Turkish military presence in a broad part of northern Syria in exchange for the promise of a five-day cease-fire..."

"... completing an abrupt reversal of American policy in the Syrian conflict. Emerging from close to five hours of talks after a hastily arranged trip to Ankara, the Turkish capital, Mr. Pence hailed the agreement as a diplomatic victory for President Trump, calling it a 'solution we believe will save lives.' The agreement 'ends the violence — which is what President Trump sent us here to do,' Mr. Pence said at a news conference at the ambassador’s residence. Turkey’s foreign minister, Mevlut Cavusoglu, immediately contradicted the description of the agreement, saying it was not a cease-fire at all, but merely a 'pause for our operation.' He added that 'as a result of our president’s skillful leadership, we got what we wanted.'"

The NYT reports the deal U.S. reached with Turkey.

Of course, Trump's critics will not stand down or give him any credit for doing anything right, so I like Trump's approach:



He's acting like everyone supported him and congratulating everyone. This gets my "nice Trump" tag.

150 comments:

Ann Althouse said...

Makes me want to watch the Trump rally (which is starting soon... in Dallas).

steve uhr said...

Ann likes trumps approach because his critics don’t ? Got it

The Bergall said...

I watched it. Pence and Pompeo must have unloaded a ton of bricks privately. And of course Nancy and Chucky opposed it, too which took me totally by surprise!...............(sic)

Mike Sylwester said...

That's our President Trump!

Brian said...

Now Althouse's pathetic defense of Trump extends to the slaughter & ethnic cleansing of our ally, the Kurds. No thinking went into the above post.

Mary Beth (the commenter) said...

No thinking went into the above post.

I can tell that you're an authority on not thinking.

Leland said...

Congress didn't support him, including a lot of Republicans.

Smithee said...

A farce from a farcical farce.

Phidippus said...

Orange Man Nice.

Better check your car for bombs tomorrow, Professor.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

I love the hyperbole. You know what? It works. It accounts for much of the Democrats electoral success over the years. Phrases like "great day for civilization" and "millions of lives" enter the unresisting skulls of LIVs effortlessly. About time someone other than a Leftist realized this.

daskol said...

Most effective use of bluster in foreign policy since Rocket Man tweets?

n.n said...

No Kurdovo for you! Erdogan is not a Gaddafi apparent. Well, perhaps if the Democrats return to power. Reconcile. Good luck.

daskol said...

Or maybe that Trump rally comment above, lol

Drago said...

steve uhr: "Ann likes trumps approach because his critics don’t ? Got it"

LOL

Li'l stevie is very very very upset about this ceasefire.

Why is that stevie?

You, Ken B and ARM are beside yourselves over this.

I can't tell you how much fun it is to watch.

Drago said...

Brian: "Now Althouse's pathetic defense of Trump extends to the slaughter & ethnic cleansing of our ally, the Kurds. No thinking went into the above post."

Brian isn't able to follow the news yet.

Perhaps in time, with counseling, he can overcome this.....deficiency.

daskol said...

The Turkish Minister of Foreign Affairs is on the BBC. Long interview by Zeinab Banawi, started off pretty interesting, but this guy is unflappable. Now she's just badgering him with tendentious claims of rampant human rights abuses. Point Turkish guy.

mccullough said...

If this is Turkey’s shitshow now, then well done. Turkey can deal with Assad and the Syrian Kurds or whatever they call themselves and deal whatever ISIS pops up in that borderland area now.




Lyle Smith said...

What slaughter and ethnic cleansing? Where is that being reported by facts on the ground?

mccullough said...

Russia was our ally during WW2. Once that war ended, they weren’t our ally anymore.

Americans and Europeans have gone to that area to join ISIS. Sounds like there are a lot of Americans this week who are ready to go to that area and join the Kurds. Good luck to them. All the Congress people who voted to Stand With The Kurds are free to go as well. Take your families and staffs with you. The rest of us will tie a yellow ribbon around the oak trees for you.

Bay Area Guy said...

Peace in our time!

(I say that in jest. For you leftwing numbnuts, that's Neville Chamerberlain giving Hitler a chunk of Czechoslovakia, which lead to Hitler wanting (and taking) more and bigger chunks of Europe and a big ugly war.)

Here, though, Trump is in the right. Strong negotiations with our "NATO ally" Turkey is best move.

Peace out!

Drago said...

Brian is still upset about all those Kurds he saw slaughtered in Kentucky that on the news a few days ago.

Don't worry Brian. The good people of Kentucky will give those "Bluegrass Kurds" a magnificent Bourbon/Pecan Pie funeral.

Milwaukie guy said...

Let's see how popular Trump's diplomacy was out in the Heartland, where the soldiers and the casualties come from.

rhhardin said...

He's meaning to annoy the left with it, as well. Each move serves two purposes. It's how you outfox the opposition. They're a move further behind for every move you make.

Hagar said...

A ceasefire is a pause for some temporary purpose. A longer lasting, more formal ceasefire is an armistice. Next up, a peace treaty.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Get that man a Noble Peace Prize. Stat!

Mattman26 said...

But the narrative!!

Spiros Pappas said...

Turkey is a made up country that shouldn't exist.

iowan2 said...

Eurdogan was going to attack regardless. The only question was, does President Trump leave his special forces in harms way. Or remove them while he goes to war with NATO allys, Turkey?
To me it sounds like its a decision left to Congress, they are the sole owner of the power to declare war.

Freder Frederson said...

When are you going to introduce a "delusional Trump" tag? Because that is a much better description than "nice Trump".

daskol said...

Each move serves two purposes. It's how you outfox the opposition.

Take the road with more gas stations and/or electric charging stations.

daskol said...

It's really fun to watch serious, sedate Brits on camera and doing serious sedate narration gritting their teeth (sorta hard to tell, hardly move their mouths anyway) talking about the significance of this major and apparently positive geopolitical realignment arising from Trump's audacious intervention. Of course after the Turkish FM interview and then the straight news reporting from the region, with the factual narration, the next story is about Mulvaney's "apparent admission that pressure was applied to the Ukraine, and that politics is always a factor in foreign policy." Wow, that's damning. Maybe not damning enough, though, because next story was some thing about Trump Doral. Poor Boris! He got a big story earlier, and they remind us about the BREXIT DEAL! every time they go to break, but goddamn, Trump/Erdogan/Turkey stuff (including respectably some somewhat local reporting) all but upstaged the Brexit deal tonight. Last times something upstaged Brexit in the last few years, that I easily recall, David Bowie had to die of cancer.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Hey, did they find the Soetoro kid's red line out in the sand over there? I heard Assad has been over it at least a few times, maybe he knows.

Drago said...

Hagar: "A ceasefire is a pause for some temporary purpose."

The initial ceasefire is to allow Syrian Arab Army units to take up positions along the border to create a buffer between the Syrian kurds and the Turkish maoist commie PKK terrorists (as defined by the lefts and Ken B's beloved EU members).

The ceasefire could fall apart if the Syrian kurds don't move away from the Turkish border and continue their support of the PKK.

That would be the hangup.

So here's the question: Will our very own CIA working with the dems attempt to encourage the Syrian Kurds to stir up trouble on the border with Turkey to get Turkey to call off the ceasefire?

My guess would be yes however I'm hoping the threat of sanctions against Turkey in that event in addition to more US material moving to the Kurds along will "dissuade" Erdogan from taking any such advice were it to be proffered.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Maybe the end of Obama's war?

Daniel Jackson said...

The Democrats are pissed off that Trump took another issue out of the 2020 campaign. Of course, they can argued he did it out of self interest, which as Scott Adams is want to say, "of course he did it; it's his job to get reelected."

Beasts of England said...

’Now Althouse's pathetic defense of Trump extends to the slaughter & ethnic cleansing of our ally, the Kurds.’

I always enjoy an erudite comment based purely on fact, and devoid of hyperbole and emotion.

sunsong said...

"Vice President Mike Pence on Thursday agreed to a deal with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that accepted a Turkish military presence in a broad part of northern Syria in exchange for the promise of a five-day cease-fire..."

Dear Goddess, I hope that isn't true. He ceded Syrian territory to Turkey?

CWJ said...

"What slaughter and ethnic cleansing? Where is that being reported by facts on the ground?"

According to NBC, in Kentucky.

hombre said...

Lefty pacifists will condemn this because they are lefties first and “Orange Man Bad.”

madAsHell said...

I’ve said it before, but let me be more emphatic. This is what fucking leadership looks like!

Somewhere Patton is taking notice.

Birkel said...

The Orange Man Bad comments above are delightful.
Althouse sparks outrage by suggesting Orange Man might not be all Bad.
Other people argue that Orange Man is not as Bad as opposing forces.

I argue for free people.
And free markets.

Earnest Prole said...

Of course, Trump's critics will not stand down or give him any credit for doing anything right.

My son lit the couch on fire, but I gave him credit for having the wherewithal to put it out. He was eight.

Great job, Donald!

Gk1 said...

WOW, so many butthurt liberals on FB and in the bay area right now. You would have thought Trump had sent in the troops to fight Turkey without congressional authorization. But to be fair, they were reflexively deciding it was vital to U.S interests to protect the Kurdish people on Monday and now have to pretend they really didn't care after all (also Trump sux!)

daskol said...

And the Yankees are up 1. NY, people. We're taking over, again, and now it's a populist thing. I have liked and followed Greinke since he was drafted, and this is the first time I've had to root hard for him to get beaten. It's also a night where if shuts this lineup down, he gets a discernable and durable upgrade to his legacy.

Shouting Thomas said...

I don’t think we’ll ever again have a president who is as entertaining and fun as Trump.

Sebastian said...

"nice Trump"

This is what his critics don't get: Trump is mostly nice. Hyperbolic, clownish at times -- but nice to actual people. Except to third-rate politicians.

daskol said...

Trump wouldn't even meet with Erdogan. He out-Erdogan-ed a master, or a master wizard or whatever Scott Adams was first calling these people who are go good at persuasion/communication/leadership that they needed a funny name.

madAsHell said...

Usually, the Secretary of State comes home with such news. Trump is positioning Pence as the bearer of good news, and potential successor.

Joe Biden will comment after he shits out dentures. Hillary could not be reached for comment. She’s currently drowning in Chardonnay.

daskol said...

BBC during significant moments in global affairs, trying to report new, is way more worthwhile than any American source I've seen. They've got a ton of problems, but they're trying to report, and they get people all over the problem on the shows. Maybe it's their cruel nuetrailty (not the BBC's but the Brits').

Bob said...

I notice this particular Trump tweet did NOT rub Erdogan nose in anything. Not only is that "nice Trump", it's also "wise Trump".

Whether he succeeds or not in any aspect of foreign, he certainly seems to "have a plan for that>"

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

My son is in the Army in the combat arms. So, in approving Trump's actions, I'm claiming Complete Moral Authority. Got that? Complete. Moral. Authority. Suck it, war-mongering Progs.

Boy, that felt good.

h said...

Anybody remember "war is not the answer?" Of course this Turkey Kurdish Syria troop withdrawal stuff has nothing to do with impeachment; except that it sheds light on the point of view that Trump opponents have no principles except OMB or "get Trump out".

Ken B said...

Am I missing something? A five day ceasefire. Five. Then what? Does it matter what comes next?

How are we, or the Kurds, better off than if there had never been any firing to cease? Firing which Trump okayed in the first place.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

US blows up its own ammunition dumps in Syria to prevent weapons falling into the wrong hands

rcocean said...

Thank God the Ottoman Empire has been stopped.

Jersey Fled said...

I'm getting tired of all this winning.

First heard this on ABC radio news as this was first breaking. It was obvious that they had not had time to formulated their anti-Trump spin so they just reported it as straight news. It was kind of refreshing.

rcocean said...

Expected Dem/Lib Response: Trump ducked a fight. This won't last, the kurds will be betrayed. Just you see. And the ones that died, its a bloodstain on American history. The Turkish walls are closing in on Trump. He's finished. And, and, anyone could have done this.

Yeah, anyone could have done this, in fact we only needed the ceasefire because of Trump's craven surrender. And it was really the VP and the Sec of state who saved the day, Trump did nothing. He's too stupid to understand anything, and too vulgar. Anyway, with Trump Ukraine and Trump Russia he'll be impeached and he's lose and and and...Orange man bad.

Jersey Fled said...

Remember the story about the kid digging through the horse shit to find the pony? Our lib friends seem to do things the other way. They chase the pony away and just look for the shit.

rcocean said...

Millions of lives. Trump - the master of the understatement.

madAsHell said...

< i >. US blows up its own ammunition dumps in Syria to prevent weapons falling into the wrong hands< /i >

Yeah, dumb fuck! That’s how the game is played!

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

mccullough said...

Sounds like there are a lot of Americans this week who are ready to go to that area and join the Kurds. Good luck to them. All the Congress people who voted to Stand With The Kurds are free to go as well. Take your families and staffs with you. The rest of us will tie a yellow ribbon around the oak trees for you.

Yeah, back during the '30's a bunch of them ponied up and got themselves involved in that awful mess in Spain. I've been wondering when we were going to see a bunch of feminists start recruiting for the Hillary! Clinton Brigade. Guess they'd rather sit on their asses, sip their Starbucks and complain about Trump.

DeVere said...

Five days of Turkish persuasion to cause the Kurds to relent on the security corridor, and Turkey herself restrained by sanctions. How could this have been handled better? Sheer genius.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Ironically, Trump just said in Texas, 'now we have so much ammunition we don't know what to do with it'. Apparently blowing up ammunition dumps in Syria is now viewed as a good use.

Iman said...

After the attempts to remove Trump from office fail and given all the hatred the Left, their PR wing (MSM) and NeverTrump are ginning up daily against the president, there may well be an attempt on his life before the November 2020 election.

That’s how crazy these people are getting. Just sad.

sunsong said...

"General Mattis says he’s honored to be considered “the most overrated general.”

“...he also called Meryl Streep an overrated actress. So I guess I'm the Meryl Streep of generals, and frankly that sounds pretty good to me." "
~ Michale Del Moro

YoungHegelian said...

Turkey is stuck here. Wars are not only terribly expensive, as we discovered in Iraq, but weapons degrade quickly in battlefield conditions & ammunition gets used in an amazingly short time (e.g. France & Britain used up all their JDAMs in the course of the short Libyan War & had to be emergency re-supplied by the US).

Turkey must achieve its aims quickly, or they will be at the end of their logistical tether. They have major league pissed off their weapons supplier, i.e. the United States. It's now legislatively impossible to provide weapons to Turkey until they stop their aggression against the Kurds & Syria.

Trump & Congress know this. NATO knows this. And, worst of all for Turkey, the Russians, Syrians, and Kurds know this.

Iman said...

It wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Michael McNeil said...

Bringing forward from that earlier thread….

“Donald Trump's mixture of threats and locker-room banter infuriated Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. His staff told the BBC that he threw the letter into the bin and launched the Syrian operation the same day.”

Ha ha. Lebanese-American writer and scholar Nassem Nicholas Taleb tweeted that “Donaldo's letter to Erdogan will be remembered in international affairs as the 2019 version of the Cossaks letter to the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV” — also thoughtfully providing (an excerpt from) the text of that historical document for comparison!

Now we see ”Sultan” Erdogan's second-thoughts response. One wonders what Sultan Mehmed IVth's reaction was….

madAsHell said...

Shit! He just shouted out for Ted Cruz.

Birkel said...

Ken B,
Unless you are willing to make the bold claim that Turks do not enjoy free will, you're saying nothing interesting.

John henry said...

Re blowing up arms dumps, my recollection is that this is the common practice whenever we move out. Unless we want to turn them over to whoever moves in.

This is because it is cheaper and safer to destroy them than to reship them home. Especially bombs and artillery shells and the like.

Someone with more direct Army/military experience can fact check me on this.

John Henry

traditionalguy said...

The clan of Mary Ann McLeod were raised at the Presbyterian Kirk of Norman Vincent Peal. And DJT mastered positive thinking, which is corollary of the Calvinist Work Ethic. It was the providence of God.

John henry said...

As someone else asked, has there been any fighting in the past few days between Kurds and Turks?

How many killed? How many casualties?

Re the Kentucky firefight: That video was supposed to be illustrating a firefight that took place that day or the day before. In the stories about the video, I've not seen anything to indicate that there was a firefight in that area. Anhyone know if there was one?

Was ABC using B-roll from Kentucky to tart up a legitimate story? Or was the underlying story as fake as the video?

John Henry

traditionalguy said...

The Dallas-Ft Worth crowd loves Trump and he feels it. His feminine half responds with warmth and good humor. And all is well.

sunsong said...

a beautiful thank you letter from a soldier’s wife to the Kurds

Rory said...

So what is Pence's kid's cut out of this? He gets a piece of it, right?

Chief Executive Lawbreaker - Whiny Weasel Trumpkins said...

Of course, Trump's critics will not stand down or give him any credit for doing anything right, so I like Trump's approach:

Yawn. We'll believe it when we see it.

This guy (and his enablers) have a bad habit of counting chickens before they hatch. His base might base everything on appearances and image, but real progress in policy doesn't happen overnight and achieve ratification through a self-congratulatory tweet. IOW, he could fly a fighter jet onto an aircraft carrier to a banner saying, "Mission Accomplished."

Republicans never seem to learn.

JamesB.BKK said...

But what about our Kurdeo-Christian heritage?

Michael K said...

General ARM is once again giving us a lecture on military strategy.

The military dumped thousands of tons of gear in the south Pacific when it was no longer needed at the end of the war. Afghanistan will be the same.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

Surber:

This morning at 8, BBC posted a story, “Turkey’s Erdogan ‘threw Trump’s Syria letter in bin.'” It was Fake News.

This afternoon at 2, President Donald John Trump announced Erdogan agreed to a cease-fire along the Syrian border.

Once again, the press got the story all wrong. President Trump knew what he was doing and succeeded where his predecessors had failed. He removed American troops in order to bring peace to a section of the Middle East. He used tariffs, not soldiers, to force the issue.

The Washington press corps covering President Trump is incompetent and corrupt as it violates the public trust by deliberately trying to sabotage the man the American people elected president.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

CNN is hot garbage. I don't trust a thing.

Michael K said...

How are we, or the Kurds, better off than if there had never been any firing to cease? Firing which Trump okayed in the first place.

Another military and diplomatic genius. Why are you not in Syria running the show ?

Birkel said...

sunsong,
Have you started the GoFundMe to help you join the Kurdish commies?
How can I donate?

Browndog said...

I haven't seen a Trump rally in a while. Didn't plan on watching this one in Dallas.

30 seconds in, I couldn't change the channel. It was epic.

rcocean said...

We had 50 guys in the Turkish "Safe zone". how much ammo would they need? Did they all have a personal 105 MM Howitzer with 1,000 rounds each? I assume the ammo dump was being used by the Kurds. And blowing it up would make sense, since as someone said up-thread, you can't haul it away with 50 guys and the Kurds wouldn't want the Turks to get it.

Drago said...

John henry: "Re blowing up arms dumps, my recollection is that this is the common practice whenever we move out. Unless we want to turn them over to whoever moves in.

This is because it is cheaper and safer to destroy them than to reship them home. Especially bombs and artillery shells and the like."

Shhhhhh.

Never interrupt Field Marshall Ken B amd Generallisimo ARM when they are on a roll.

I really dont know what the problem is for our lefties. Just have CNN roll some footage from the 1960's riots in the US and call it a Turkush offensive.

We already know that works everytime with the lefties.

wildswan said...

I hear Erdogan is going to ethnically cleanse Syria by flooding it with Syrian refugees.

Actually I'd like to see the Kurds get a homeland as others did after the fall of the Ottoman empire but if we now tried either by negotiation or war to achieve that goal the Dems would sabotage it. So if we can't hope to act constructively then it's constructive to leave.

Drago said...

Sunsong pretending to like the troops!!

Is there nothing that Trump cant do?!!

I would bet Trumps solid voting majority amongst active duty and reserve members as well as retired military members will increase substantially.

Bay Area Guy said...

Alll we are sayyyyying is give peace a chance.

Where is John Lennon when you really need him?

Beasts of England said...

’Apparently blowing up ammunition dumps in Syria is now viewed as a good use.’

Take a few more Pamprin, sugar tits...

Chief Executive Lawbreaker - Whiny Weasel Trumpkins said...

Another military and diplomatic genius. Why are you not in Syria running the show ?

I think this is called an "appeal to authority," and it seems to be happening pretty regularly on this blog with this commenter.

Do civilians get to choose the CIC and head of state or don't they? Which part of the constitution says otherwise?

Well, that part of the constitution won't get changed but I can see now why Republicans are so supportive of restricting the vote instead. Apparently they find that easier than simply explaining themselves and their pre-verbal policies.

Chief Executive Lawbreaker - Whiny Weasel Trumpkins said...

Wars are not only terribly expensive, as we discovered in Iraq.

Yes. It took America's imperialist regime-change intervention to happen upon this very new discovery. For thousands of years since the dawn of time war had been very cheap.

Oh, wait. We're talking about what's new to Republicans. Never mind.

Drago said...

Seems like only yesterday the obambi admin had identified military veteran status as one marker potentially indicating a possible domestic terrorist.

Its easy to see why the dems would lament reducing the number of US combat deaths.

CWJ said...

"a beautiful thank you letter from a soldier’s wife to the Kurds"

If only it were authentic.

Lydia said...

"Mitt Romney Calls For Public Hearings Into Trump’s Troop Withdrawal in Syria"

StephenFearby said...

Blogger Michael McNeil said...

'...Lebanese-American writer and scholar Nassem Nicholas Taleb tweeted that “Donaldo's letter to Erdogan will be remembered in international affairs as the 2019 version of the Cossaks letter to the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV” — also thoughtfully providing (an excerpt from) the text of that historical document for comparison!'

Thanks for the link to Taeb's Twitter feed. Didn't know he had one. Further down he asks:

Nassim Nicholas Taleb
‏@nntaleb

Those with brains no balls become mathematicians, those with balls no brains join the mafia, those with no balls no brains become economists (unless they have mental issues, in which case they become psychologists).

And those with brains and balls become ____?

Jim Gust said...

Don Surber has a great piece on this subject: https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2019/10/how-media-blew-syria-story.html

heyboom said...

John Henry said:

Was ABC using B-roll from Kentucky to tart up a legitimate story? Or was the underlying story as fake as the video?

The likely source of the Kentucky video

Birkel said...

Why are all these Democratic chickenhawks talking instead of fighting?
/2004-2008

Narr said...

That Cossack letter is superb! Laughed until the tears came-- I hadn't thought about it since a Russian history class in grad school.

So time has been set aside for the more sensible Kurds to move themselves out of the way and materiel properly disposed of; but as others have said they are now being spun as nothing less than Gallant Little Belgium by many self-interested parties here and across the globe, and loonies can always screw things up--especially Muslim-Commie-Terrorist loonies with influential friends in the imperial center.

If their ignorance and faux concern weren't so manifest, sunsnog, Kenny Boy, and CEL (The Great McGonagall of the world-savers here) couldn't be so amusing.

Tell us, O seers, who falls next in the march of conquest? What embattled outpost of LGBTQ rights must we reinforce now? Will Scooby and the Gang escape the clutches of the evil Turk?

Tune in tomorrow.

Narr
If there is a tomorrow

gadfly said...

Of course, Trump's critics will not stand down or give him any credit for doing anything right . . . . As Trump pointed out:

“They didn’t help us with Normandy,” Trump tells reporters about the Kurds coming under Turkish attack in Syria.

Obviously, the only use of the word curd /kərd/ that George Washington ever heard of was a part of the cheese-making process!

n.n said...

Just have CNN roll some footage from the 1960's riots in the US and call it a Turkush offensive.

Or from the Roman Colosseum. Lions and tigers, oh my.

Or from the Little Chamber of Horrors, where baby... fetal limbs are strewn to and fro. The blood, the guts, the carnage, a transhuman Choice that we dare not speak its name.

That said, no Kurdovo, no Libya (with an ambassador thrown in for good measure), not even a Kiev. They will need to reconcile, not bitterly cling to hopes and dreams of redistributive and retributive change.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"The effort to associate Trump with disorder — craziness and abnormality — is failing. I don't think it will work out well for Democratic Party to shift from fretting and scaring us about disorder to working to increase disorder by disrupting a presidency that people see as a force for order."

anti-de Sitter space said...

And, to suss out all that was there:

"MadisonMan said...
File this one under Fake News."

IOW it's not all BS here.

readering said...

Althouse likes Trump approach of narcissistic grandiosity in the peddling of b.s. no longer surprising.

Qwinn said...

wildswan nailed it.

Even if helping the Kurds now were a good idea, Democrats would make sure to betray any promises made by a Republican. See Vietnam 1975. See authorizing the Iraq War then undermining it. See Gadaffi. It's inevitable. And the world knows it. It's not just Americans that can't trust Democrats. No one in the world can.

Sebastian said...

Hey, Althouse, anything Trump said in Dallas that you disagreed with? I mean, in case you are still "neutral"?

n.n said...

’Apparently blowing up ammunition dumps in Syria is now viewed as a good use.’

A double-edged scalpel, perhaps. It's preferred to sacrificing blood and treasure, transporting munitions of variable and unknown state; to sharing with locals that may have the audacity to redistribute the devices and systems, or even choosing to open abortion fields to reduce inconvenient or burdensome social obstacles.

chickelit said...

In the Trump movie, dog wags you.

chickelit said...

Five days isn't long, but long enough for some intrepid reporters to get their asses over there to do some real shooting...of video. Are there any such reporters left?

Ken B said...

You never answer a substantive question Michael K. That is because you are really just a kind of troll. If we are better off, how?

Ken B said...

Blowing up ammo is like spiking guns, it is standard procedure when retreating too fast to carry it.

eddie willers said...

Apparently blowing up ammunition dumps in Syria is now viewed as a good use.

The Confederacy blew up their own ammunition in the southern part of Atlanta while Sherman was burning his way through northern part.

Pretty standard war tactics there, Scooter.

Gary said...

Such a deal...

Trump betrays our ally the Kurds and gives Turkey permission to attack.
Turkey attacks committing war crimes.
Foreign policy and military experts, many Republicans, say this is a disaster and a black eye for America.
Trump announces sanctions unless Turkey stops and sends Pence and Pompeo to Turkey to negotiate.
A deal is announced - the Kurds are given 5 days to withdraw.

Can Althouse tell me how this is a great Trump victory?


Nichevo said...

Dear Goddess, I hope that isn't true. He ceded Syrian territory to Turkey?

Lemme get this straight, sunsong. Now you're on Assad's side?

Crazy World said...

I usually just read about President Trump’s rallies but I’m going to agree with Ann and watch, history is being made right before our eyes.

Crazy World said...

Lol bumblebee bee 7:20 Barky was such a badass NOT

Hey Skipper said...

Yesterday afternoon (around 1300 GMT) I was flying between Tel Aviv and Cologne.

Over the Med, a 747 was on the same track, opposite direction, 1000 feet below. Because it was conning, I picked it up about 20 miles out. Oddly, nothing showed up on the Terminal Collision Avoidance System. (TCAS shows relative altitude, bearing, and distance for other aircraft within 40 NM and 4500 feet of own altitude.)

As it got closer, I noticed the top of the nose painted a characteristic blue. Both the First Officer and I said, at the same time, "That's Air Force One."

Turns out we were wrong. It was AF 2.

rwnutjob said...

Those fifty troop were sent by Obama...ten years ago...for one month.

The break in the cease fire may be Free Syrian Army units trying to stir up trouble

BUMBLE BEE said...

Late last year I had a long talk with a local legend in army surplus. I asked him why all the "surplus" kind of gear was new and expensive. He pointed out, (as noted above), that it was too expensive to collect and return the stuff. He further explained that returning pathogens and invasive species were of utmost concern. He sells mostly camping gear now, and used domestic training gear.

Rusty said...

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
"Ironically, Trump just said in Texas, 'now we have so much ammunition we don't know what to do with it'. Apparently blowing up ammunition dumps in Syria is now viewed as a good use."

Thus denying the use of that ammunition by Turkey. A NATO ally. Who, coincidentally, use the exact same ammunition is their weapons. When troops of any army leave a place in a hurry they take the time to destroy anything that may be of use to the enemy. That is material they can't take with them. Jesus. Read a history book.

Rusty said...

Sunsong. Pay attention. It wasn't his territory to cede. We were there to kill ISIS, not insure Syrian territorial integrity.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Lotsa new trolls here. Althouse recognition night. Or failed Obama's state dept employees?

stevew said...

The House votes to rebuke Trump over his decision to remove troops. Very symbolic, not even carrying the strength and severity of a yellow card warning in a soccer match. They could have declared war.

Meanwhile I've been searching everywhere for why removing the US Military, all 50 human beings, from the conflict grounds represents a strategic mistake or blunder. All I can find is impassioned arguments that we have abandoned an ally to certain death, maybe even genocide, and so our honor and integrity are stained with the Kurds blood. For example, see Senator Romney's speech of 10/17/19. No mention of our NATO ally, Turkey.

Meanwhile, a Bryan Dean Wright argues that there is a strategy behind Trump's move. Essentially it is that Russia, Iran, Turkey, & Syria all want ISIS eliminated, as do we. Trump's approach leverages these nations to achieve our mutual goal without expending US soldiers and resources. Furthermore, elimination of ISIS is the only thing on which those other nations agree; Iran and Russia want control of Syria and will argue and fight about that when they aren't fighting ISIS, or have finished. Most likely, the three - Russia, Iran, & Turkey - will be bogged down with each other in the area, with no negative effect on the US.

I have no idea if any of that is realistic or likely, but at least it argues that Trump has a plan, unlike his critics among Dems, Repubs, and the media. Dems seem to want to focus on the humanitarian aspect (the poor Kurds), Repubs are focused on the neo-con fantasy of building a democratic nation in Syria, and the MSM are just all about Orange Man Bad.

Bob Boyd said...

The larger picture aside, blowing up ordnance is just fun. I've seen it done and it was awesome!

Michael K said...

Lottsa trolls today.


Blogger Gary said...

Such a deal...

Trump betrays our ally the Kurds and gives Turkey permission to attack.


Gary is into extended sexual orgasms. This must be one.

Michael K said...

Morte trolls.

Blogger Ken B said...

You never answer a substantive question Michael K. That is because you are really just a kind of troll. If we are better off, how?


What substance ? Why are you not on your way to Syria ?

J. Farmer said...

This is desperate spin on Trump's part. The purpose of the Turkish offensive was to deny the SDF territory in northeastern Syria. The ceasefire also includes stipulations that the Kurd's withdraw from the territory and allow it to be occupied by Turkey, which is what Turkey has wanted from the beginning.

tommyesq said...

"What slaughter and ethnic cleansing? Where is that being reported by facts on the ground?"

According to NBC, in Kentucky.


Very. Fake. News... it was ABC, not NBC!

tommyesq said...

The purpose of the Turkish offensive was to deny the SDF territory in northeastern Syria. The ceasefire also includes stipulations that the Kurd's withdraw from the territory and allow it to be occupied by Turkey, which is what Turkey has wanted from the beginning.

So Trump pulled off getting a NATO ally the security corridor that they sought (apparently correctly, since I have seen no reporting that the assertion of Kurdish terrorists operating there was incorrect), without needless death and bloodshed on either side and without the US having to put its troops in harm's way? That does not sound much like "desperate spin" to me.

Michael K said...

The House votes to rebuke Trump over his decision to remove troops.

I've noted the Republicans among those voting yes to rebuke. My donations will follow the pattern. Those that voted yes will get zero from me.

Bob Boyd said...

This Syria situation is not a simple matter. The Pols in DC and the meth heads on TV like to pretend it is, but it's not. It's the single biggest mess on Earth.
The Adderall junkies say we just need a small number of troops and we're not going to get sucked into deeper involvement, but "Stand with the Kurds" means deeper involvement. This is what getting sucked in looks like.
They call the Kurds our allies, but we have no formal agreement. The Turks are our formal allies, even though Erdogan sucks.
They say the Kurds helped us fight ISIS, but actually, we helped the Kurds fight ISIS. We fought together, it's true, but the Turks have fought alongside our troops many times over the years as well.
If you want deeper involvement in Syria, just say so. Congress staged a rebuke of Trump, but it's their responsibility to declare war. They could introduce a bill to go fight for the Kurds, but they don't. And it wouldn't pass if they did. It's all posturing. It's all about domestic politics for the Adderall junkies.
It's not all politics for the Kurds, of course, but who promised the Kurds we would help them fight NATO member Turkey? How could they expect us to to do that? The answers are "no one" and "they don't."

Ray - SoCal said...

Us was asked there by Turkey.

The area in question I understand is flat.

Kurds are good in the mountains, in flat areas they would be slaughtered.

Trump is spinning, but in a more interesting way, trying to make it so the involved parties, Turkey and Kurds don’t lose face.

Only losers I see so far is the uniparty.

Ray - SoCal said...

I’m curious what the gop house yes voters have in common.

And what those who voted no have in common.

Ray - SoCal said...

There seems to be no pro Turkey faction in congress.

Usually with the right donations there would be one.

And most countries around the world understand how us Congress influence is gotten. Nothing even from the squad, and Erdogan is very Muslim brotherhood friendly.

Or is Get Trump even more important?

Or has Erdogan burned all his bridges?

Or are there other lobbies, such as Israeli and Middle East Gulf states against him?

Birkel said...

Desperate spin? What set of facts would cause this desperation?

Keeping American servicemen out of harms way?
Wide domestic support for withdrawing from overseas follies?
Losing Mitt *spit* Romney's support?

Also, if that was Turkey's goal all along, why would keeping handfuls of American soldiers have stayed their pursuit of their own interests?
Oh.
I forgot.
Orange.
Man.
Bad.

Ken B said...

How are we better off Michael K? If this is a Trump accomplishment, what did it accomplish?

Farmer explains what it accomplished for Turkey, and Erdogan. But what about for America?

Narr said...

I haven't checked today, so fill me in, please-- are there any Kurds left? Is Syria still there?

I had a dream last night, a dream of Universal Peace. I was flying above the earth, like an angel, or an RQ-170, but it was not the old Earth. No my, brethern and sistern, it was an earth where no man's hand was raised against another, and I as flew down to see more clearly, it was revealed unto my wondering eyes.

O Glory Be, O Lawdy Me!

Everywhere that war had been, a young American stood, and from that young American it was as an aura, a pool of peace that radiated outwards, and all the people danced!

Narr
Paid for by Permawar(tm) Party, Washington, DC

tommyesq said...

They say the Kurds helped us fight ISIS, but actually, we helped the Kurds fight ISIS.

This is a super-important point. Everyone is acting like we were desperate to eliminate ISIS but desperately needed the assistance of that vastly superior fighting force, the Kurds of northern Syria, who (having no independent reason to resist ISIS) valiantly stepped in and saved our bacon.The Kurds have gotten enormous benefit from the US through this - the existential threat that is ISIS has been negated, the Kurds are far better armed than previously, and now the rest of the world has some idea who they are and what their political goals are.

Plus, as I mentioned up-thread, I have seen no one contest that the Kurds (or at least some faction of the Kurds) have correctly been labelled a terrorist group for their activities along, and inside of, the Turkish border with Syria.

J. Farmer said...

@Birkel:

Oh.
I forgot.
Orange.
Man.
Bad.


I completely agree with you that the reaction to the decision is driven first and foremost by a loathing and hatred of Trump.

J. Farmer said...

I am fine with Trump's decision to redeploy the troops. I wish he would go further and actually withdraw US troops from Syria completely. During Trump's tenure, more troops have been deployed to the middle east than brought home. There are about 14,000 more US troops in the middle east than before he took office.

When Trump announced with Syrian troop withdraw last year, the one that prompted Mattis' resignation, he walked it back and claimed that troops would remain to protect the Kurds, since it was obvious that without US support, that would likely not be able to keep the territorial gains they surriptiously made after their fight against Assad turned into a fight with ISIS. I said as much a year ago. There are already reports that the ceasefire is not holding, and Kurdish commanders have said that they will not accept Turkish occupation. The conflict is far from revolved, and it's a tad early to unfurl the "Mission Accomplished" banner.

Michael K said...

When Trump announced with Syrian troop withdraw last year, the one that prompted Mattis' resignation, he walked it back and claimed that troops would remain to protect the Kurds,

You just confirmed my argument that the US military above O-6 is unable to go beyond the past 28 years of GWOT mentality,. Before that it was Cold War mentality. One early problem in Vietnam was the World War II tactics advocated by TRADOC commender William DuPuy.

Sure Trump backed down but he is learning and did not do so this time. It will be the second term before he can get the troops out of Afghanistan and the usual suspects will raise hell again. Once again, for American Conservative readers, the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Narr said...

Indeed the conflictS are not revolved (actually that's a nice slip, Farmer) -- there is no one conflict and there is no resolution, only revolution or more likely revolving conflictS from here on out.

It will be interesting to see if Trump--with his boyish delight in the company of Real Ay-rab Royalty (great people, they do so much ... if I could tell you--no, they say I can't say anything ... we've done some really really yuge things) isn't just doubling down on the Kingdom of Sleazi Arabia and the Gulf shitlings.

Just as a matter of IL (coff,coff) when a country or state (i.e. Syria under Assad) loses the ability to keep order and stability internally, to the detriment of the neighborhood, a neighboring country or state (i.e. Turkey) has a right (and it has been argued [cf. D2P] in some circs a duty), to protect itself against anarchic and revolutionary violence.

So real states (such as they are, to varying degrees) are stepping up. They all have reason, as has been stated, to go after ISIS; most Kurds won't be or get in the way.

The Kurds about whom there is so much hand-wringing are prime practitioners of anarchic and revolutionary violence. No wonder the Dims love them.

Michael K: get a stick and wipe Ken B's substance off your shoe before you go back inside.

Narr
BTW did you ever make it to the National Cemetery here on the ancestor-hunt?

narciso said...

he tries everything once, then he tries again, now nixon wanted to try the malaya plan, but the left protesters wouldn't have it,

narciso said...

here's an angle,


https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/10/media-and-pundits-misread-the-everyone-wins-plan-for-syria.html

Jim at said...

I've come to learn the intensity of leftist screeching is directly proportional to the measurement of Trump's success.

This thread proves it.

Chief Executive Lawbreaker - Whiny Weasel Trumpkins said...

Orange.
Man.
Bad.


Hahaha. Which must somehow be soooo much less articulate than the right-wing slogans of: Orange Man Strong! Orange Man Awesome! Orange Man Winning!

Chief Executive Lawbreaker - Whiny Weasel Trumpkins said...

"Blogger Ken B said...

You never answer a substantive question Michael K. That is because you are really just a kind of troll. If we are better off, how?"

What substance ? Why are you not on your way to Syria ?


One would think someone who thinks their medical school conferred upon them genius status would figure out that this is a completely unresponsive deflection that offers no defense at all of the thing (Trump and his stupid behavior and actions) that are apparently being defended. How limp.

Narayanan said...

Why not use terms clean and clear.
For deplorable to understand.

Don't let Swamp critters flinging verbiage.

ISIS:>>>
USA want to fight.
Kurds want to fight.
>>>> Agreement.

Turkey:>>>
Kurds want to fight.
USA don't want to fight.>>>>
Not in agreement.

USA soldiers will not be hostage or tripwire.

JamesB.BKK said...

Please use God Emperor or God Emperor Trump in the future. Much clearer. Thanks. It's incomprehensible why the blabbling class doubles down on blabbling despite so many utter failures. Got reasons?