October 16, 2019

The Kurds are "not angels," Trump said.

"They fought with us. We paid a lot of money for them to fight with us, and that’s OK. They did well when they fought with us. They didn’t do so well when they didn’t fight with us.... I viewed the situation on the Turkish border with Syria to be for the United States strategically brilliant. Our soldiers are out of there. Our soldiers are totally safe. They’ve got to work it out. Maybe they can do it without fighting."

Reported at The National Post.

Video and different quotes selected at NBC News:
"If Turkey goes into Syria, that’s between Turkey and Syria," he said while speaking to reporters in the Oval Office. "It’s not between Turkey and the United States, like a lot of stupid people would like us to — would like you to believe.... If Russia wants to get involved with Syria, that's really up to them... They have a problem with Turkey, they have a problem at a border. It's not our border. We shouldn't be losing lives over it."...

"Our soldiers are not in harm's way — as they shouldn't be — as two countries fight over land that has nothing to do with us. And the Kurds are much safer right now, but the Kurds know how to fight. And, as I said, they're not angels. They're not angels, if you take a look.... By the way, everybody hates ISIS... Some were released just for effect to make it look like ‘oh jee, we gotta get back in there.'"
Trump is always telling us to "take a look." But there's no way I can look at the Kurds and see them at all, let alone see — like God — everything they do and think to judge whether they are angels. Trump is always telling us to "look" at things we can't just look at. Either he's enthralled by television and the idiotic illusion that it lets you watch what's going on in the world or he really means I'm telling you what you would see if you could look.

111 comments:

Ann Althouse said...

Trump could quite rationally think: Americans don't care if Turkey and Syria fight, especially when both sides are against ISIS.

Shouting Thomas said...

Could be he’s basing his opinion on confidential intelligence briefings.

Michael K said...

I think we are growing out of the illusion that we can direct the outcomes in the middle east.

Birkel said...

Maybe 'look' means 'apply critical reasoning skills' to escape the stories the MSM would have you believe.

Shouting Thomas said...

I’m extremely skeptical of martyrdom mythologies, aren’t you?

Martyrdom myths are the way propagandists draw us into war.

What part of the world keeps blowing up over martyrdom myths?

Clyde said...

When the other side has extermination camps like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, North Korea or Communist China, it's pretty easy to determine who is evil. Or when a group tortures people, beheads people, and burns people alive as ISIS was so fond of doing; they were definitely evil as hell, and should not have been taken alive to later be allowed to escape and return to their evildoing. They weren't signatories to the Geneva Convention. The deguello should have been sounded.

Sometimes a conflict is not a matter of "good" and "evil", though; sometimes it's just "us" and "them." That's immensely clarifying.

GatorNavy said...

Frankly, Trump could leave all of the Middle East to their own devices and I would not shed a tear. It is a land of hate, tribal feuds and evil vendettas.

narayanan said...

The fight is inter-department in DC

https://www.meforum.org/59554/state-department-distrust-of-syrian-kurds
___________
The US State Department admitted on Friday that it had always viewed the Syrian Democratic Forces, a group that the US helped create, as including components of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), which the US views as a terrorist organization. This was in contrast to the Pentagon which viewed the SDF as key partners in the defeat of Islamic State. For years, two parts of the US government fought a quiet war against one another, as the US urged the SDF in Syria to fight ISIS, a war in which is suffered around 11,000 casualties.

traditionalguy said...

All the USA wants to see is a balance of power in the Levant. The Persian Empire and the Syrian Empire and the Ottoman Empire need to settle those boundaries among themselves. The Oil and Gas and Pipelines are the big cash pots the EU still wants us to guard for their reasons. But the USA has all the oil and gas it needs and wants to sell the rest to the EU and Asia at higher prices that a War among those 3 Empires will temporarily drive up.

So Trump has a brilliant strategy. And he gets to bring the US Military home to guard us from attacks here by the Globalists fifth columnists.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

the hack press destroyed their credibility. I don't buy much of anything they say.

sykes.1 said...

The white-hot rage and hysteria coming from the neocons, Deep State denizens, and so-called moderate Republicans indicates that someone is yanking their chains real hard. It is most likely their Israeli masters. ZOG on full howl.

Yancey Ward said...

And now lets get the fuck out of Afghanistan.

Narr said...

"Take a look" is just a verbal tic, not something IMO very important.

Something that interests me is the idea that because Trump skedaddled then the Kurds have no choice but to let loose all those ISIS prisoners. This is like 1942 Soviets threatening to roll over for the Nazis if the Western powers didn't do something the Reds wanted, or Clevon Little in Blazing Saddles. As a practical matter, the disposal of such a relatively small number of criminals--no doubt they aren't in good condition now--is a minor thing for
experienced Muzzies.

Perhaps the end of the era of kissing Islamic ass is over-- so long to the sun-stunned child-fucking prophet, so long to all his followers!

Narr
A guy can dream, can't he?

tim maguire said...

The Kurds have been good allies in a part of the world where we don't have many good allies. I think it's important to stand by them. But what does "stand by them" mean? It's too early to tell whether we betrayed them or helped them or something in between. (Don't forget, they don't want the status quo either. They want their own state.)

rcocean said...

Its all part of Trump being a businessman and not a politician. So he'll say" Take a look and you'll see they aren't angels".

And well, its not clear exactly what he's saying. I take it to mean, "if you look at what the Kurds have been doing they don't have clean hands and have a beef with the Turks." Or maybe its a vague way of saying "Both sides are flawed". or "Good is 100 percent with the Kurds". Its not a literal or fact specific comment.

Anyway, I agree with him 100 percent. Who controls Northern Syria is none of our business. And they aren't "The Kurds" we are talking about "Syrian kurds" the kurds in turkey and iraq are doing just fine.

rcocean said...

Our only national interest is ISIS. We can work with others in NATO if Turkey commits war crimes that need to be punished with sanctions.

rhhardin said...

Look means put some reporters in there.

rhhardin said...

Angels aren't perfect, just messengers. Look at satan.

Otto said...

"The Kurds are no angels" Ann doesn't know history but just ask the Armenians about the 1915 genocide.

Yancey Ward said...

In other news, I found this absolutely hilarious! Kathy Griffin actually has the nerve to complain about the parody video of Trump shooting his enemies.

Wow.

Pianoman said...

The President weighed a lot of factors, and then came to a decision. Some people liked it, some didn't. It's a difficult decision, with good arguments on both sides.

Why, it's almost as if he's not a clown, or a buffoon, or an idiot. It's almost like he's a reasonable person, who made a reasonable decision based on the information he was given. How about that.

mockturtle said...

One can always 'take a look' at history, unless, of course, one thinks history started last month.

Jess said...

It's ironic that the media is concentrating on well armed Kurds, while China is in the process of subjugating millions to what can only be described as slavery.

R.J. Chatt said...

take a look = do due diligence, do your homework, learn something about

How about we take a look into this situation before we dive into a quagmire like we did when we "liberated" Iraq from Saddam and found ourselves saddled with an irreconcilable Sunni Shia family feud?

Ken B said...

"The Czechs are not angels" N. Chamberlain

BarrySanders20 said...

We fought with these Kurds to defeat a common foe that was a temporary menace who interrupted the longer, existing conflict between Kurds in that region and Turkey. ISIS in its current form is defeated in that region. As far as I know, that was our only "promise" to the Kurds, and it was to our mutual benefit. Promise kept.

Turkey is not a common foe. We have no obligation -- moral, ethical, legal -- to intervene with our military in any conflict between Turkey and those Kurds that Turkey says are extremists intent on harming Turkey. Intervene in other ways, economic, diplomatic, etc, which is what Trump is doing. These other tribes and countries need to figure out the land claims on their own.

n.n said...

Angels aren't perfect, just messengers. Look at satan.

They have independent consciousness, moral character development, and make their own choices. Some follow their Father's advice, while others dissent and diverge. This was presumably the reason for establishing a proving ground. Live and learn.

Char Char Binks said...

Devil or angel?

I don't care -- they're not Americans.

sunsong said...

Human lives are NOT commodities. That's what being truly "pro-life" means, imo. To say "hey that's not my problem" is disgusting. There's a saying that fits folks like you:

"God bless me and my wife
my son and his wife
us four and no more"

If that's your philosophy, I hope you don't lie and call yourself a Christian.

rehajm said...

I was struck by two different experienced military types making the case for continued US military presence. ...We can't abandon the Kurds...the Kurds are good fighters...I know, because I've been fighting side by side with them for over twenty years.... Yah. Perhaps that's the problem...

I am not surprised to see Althouse resident lefties and TV media lefties become war mongers just to oppose Trump. You'd think they'd prefer not to confirm BleachBit-and-Hammers schtick. But no...

gg6 said...

ALTHOUSE SAYS: "...Trump is always telling us to "look" at things we can't just look at. Either he's enthralled by television and the idiotic illusion that it lets you watch what's going on in the world or he really means I'm telling you what you would see if you could look." ...Wow, what's THAT all about - other than some psych phenomena in your own head? You're a 'wordsmith' and play one on the internet so undoubtedly you know the widely used vernacular phrase "Look at it" - it means search, find, consider rationally and then speak/act. Go ahead slice and dice all the rhetoric you want but please never play Carl Jung. You can much better spend your time lashing The Media for their pathetic reporting of this subject - god forbid they take off their pretty jackets and dresses and go to report from the 'front line'.

Bay Area Guy said...

If Trump sent more troops, the Left would shout "Endless War!"

If Trump withdraws, the Left shouts "Selling out our Allies!"

Ya gotta just ignore the Left and the pundits, here.

Josephbleau said...

At least the cool kids now know that it sucks to be Chinese. None of the ones working in the US want to go back home.

readering said...

Trump this morning on tv shows he doesn't rationally think.

Drago said...

The disappointment of the democrats and their LLR-leftist allies is palpable and their clear disappointment over the lack of additional dead US soldiers is written all over their faces.

The dems really thought the Deep Staters/Permanent War establishment would be able to force Trump's hand on this using selective feeds to their favorite lefty/LLR-lefty/Establishment reporters which the dems would turn right around and use as a political weapon to drive a wedge between Trump and his base.

DanTheMan said...

So when Trump said “America First” he actually meant it? Damn.

mccullough said...

Kurds are like The Moderate Arabs our leaders had talked about a decade ago.

Christy said...

Kurds were responsible for a mid-19th century massacre of Christians in Damascus. Can't find mention of it on the web, but it is prominent in Mary Lovell's biography of Jane Digby.

Hagar said...

I am beginning to think that Trump is saying: Look, the Soviet Union collapsed thirty years ago and "communist" China has more billionaires than the U.S. It is time for a new world order.

William said...

Yo!

The Kirds have gotten a helluva lot more from our partnership than we have received.

Don't accuse me of playing semantic games, but we have been much better partners to them than they have been to us.

The Kurds are like every other organization—except the pre-Trump U S of A—in that everything they do is for their own self interests. Think of the money we've poured into those guys; what has it gotten us? Ø

Hagar said...

If so, he is really starting something big!

Jim at said...

"The Czechs are not angels" N. Chamberlain

Dumbest comment you've made on this subject yet. I'm sure there are more to follow.

West Texas Intermediate Crude said...

We once fought as allies with Soviet Communist Russia against a common foe, one that once was an ally of our enemy. Now we are allies with the former German enemy and enemies of our former Russia.
Or, in the alternative, history began last week, when President Trump made a decision, and now he's literally Hitler (just like the last 4 Republican presidents).

Jim at said...

To say "hey that's not my problem" is disgusting.

Then why are you still here pounding your keyboard?
Walk the walk, boy. Send us a postcard.

I Callahan said...

Trump this morning on tv shows he doesn't rationally think.

There isn't anything he's doing now that isn't considered rational, especially when it comes to the mess in the middle east.

So either put up or shut up.

Nichevo said...

sykes.1 said...
The white-hot rage and hysteria coming from

the Russian plantbots and agitproppers like you means that Blyat! President Trump has made the right move again and you are screwed. Suck it, Comrade Bobka Sykesovich!

narciso said...

so lets talk about George kent, the witness in yesterday's hearing, he's the Ukraine expert, but he was the chief of mission, in kyev, before the Ukraine invasion, then he was the anti corruption coordinator, around the time that anywhere from 1.5-5.5 billion dollars in foreign aid were lost,

n.n said...

If Trump sent more troops, the Left would shout "Endless War!"

If Trump withdraws, the Left shouts "Selling out our Allies!"


They want to abort the baby... fetus and grant her life, too. We'll see if the People, and our Posterity, agree with their twilight logic. That said, unlike Iraq War 2.0, there will not be a vacuum. The Turks and [militant] Kurdish factions need to reconcile their differences eventually, sooner than later, for the general Welfare of the Turks, Kurds, and others captured in this seemingly progressive conflict without borders, without time.

Ann Althouse said...

"Kurds are like The Moderate Arabs our leaders had talked about a decade ago."

I don't know if you meant to say that Kurds are Arabs, but they're not. The ethnic group is Iranian.

Susan said...

I thought everyone knew that "take a look" was a colloquialism.

I suppose not.

Lydia said...

"House passes resolution rebuking Trump over Syria pullout"

The vote was 354-60.

Unknown said...

'Take a look" means that we should not be passive consumers of fake news,false views and phony equivalencies.

Try to rise above the stupidity and pig-fucking we see from readering, ARM and Ken B.
With intellectual honesty it isn't difficult. Except for readering, ARM and KenB that is.
S. Delmonico

narciso said...

like, the moderate arabs, Sufis ahmadis really get any attention,

n.n said...

Kurds are like The Moderate Arabs our leaders had talked about a decade ago.

Some, most, probably are. At least in some fashion.


The Kurds are one of the indigenous peoples of the Mesopotamian plains and the highlands in what are now south-eastern Turkey, north-eastern Syria, northern Iraq, north-western Iran and south-western Armenia.

and

The Kurdish language and traditional way of life
The traditional Kurdish way of life was nomadic, revolving around sheep and goat herding throughout the Mesopotamian plains and the highlands of Turkey and Iran. Most Kurds practiced only marginal agriculture. The enforcement of national boundaries beginning after World War I (1914–18) impeded the seasonal migrations of the flocks, forcing most of the Kurds to abandon their traditional ways for village life and settled farming; others entered nontraditional employment.

Then, progress happened. The evil nationalists. The wicked administrative districts of social and natural resources in other conceptions. It's over, but the Kurds are, in the now infamous speech: "bitter clingers".

Char Char Binks said...

Saying "Kurds are like The Moderate Arabs our leaders had talked about a decade ago." seems different from saying "Kurds are The Moderate Arabs our leaders had talked about a decade ago.", somehow.

minnesota farm guy said...

From Dictionary.com "take a look" :"Turn your attention to, examine." That is what Trump is encouraging us to do. If I can find that certainly the professor could have. What he really should say, but it's much too pedantic is "Take look and learn!"

Drago said...

sunsong: "Human lives are NOT commodities."

Holy crap!!

The party of abortion and the selling of baby parts for fun and profit is now trying to say human lives are not commodities.

The Democrat party exists on an explicit "human lives are commodities" basis.

LOL

sunsong couldn't be dumber if she were Inga herself......(hmmmmmmmm)

Howard said...

He fucked the Kurds then throwed them under the bus while you people slurp up every last drop of Trump's effluent

Drago said...

readering: "Trump this morning on tv shows he doesn't rationally think."

The "Soviets only invaded Poland from the east because Hitler invaded Poland from the west" crew chimes in on rationality.

Discuss.

Drago said...

Lydia: "House passes resolution rebuking Trump over Syria pullout"

The vote was 354-60."

Then let the House vote to go to war and provide the funding for doing so.

Until then, who cares what pusillanimous posturing goes on.

Drago said...

Howard: "He fucked the Kurds then throwed them under the bus while you people slurp up every last drop of Trump's effluent"

Howard is very upset we achieved our mission and are coming home and no longer supporting the supporters of a designated terrorist group.

Discuss.

Jim at said...

The vote was 354-60.

Good. Now we know the vote count to authorize force.
Get cracking.

Drago said...

You can really tell by the degree of illogic and anger coming from the ever collapsing dems just how appropriate and effective Trump's decision on Syria happens to be.

I guess we won't be hearing any "No War For Oil" BS from the lefties anytime soon with Trump.

Hey Howard, why don't you just focus on doing what Putin wants: shutting down oil and gas production in the US. You know, like EVERY SINGLE DEM CANDIDATE has sworn to do.

Qwinn said...

Does ANYONE here believe that, if Trump had increased support for the Kurds, that readering or Howard wouldn't be squealing about that every bit as hysterically? That ANYTHING he did would be acceptable to them?

Cause if you do, you're a moron.

minnesota farm guy said...

My comments to a Galston article in the WSJ:
As a Marine Corps veteran I disagree with Mr. Galston. No responsible commander would have left a contingent of 50 troops exposed to an invasion by thousands of Turks. That was the tactical situation that Trump faced. Even with the best intent on the part of the Turks we would have lost troops just to accidents that occur during battle. Assad and Putin won the "Syrian civil war" long before this. That is one of the reasons that our treaty ally, Turkey, decided to make this incursion to secure Turkey's border with Syria. Do I worry that Russia wants to insert itself into the quagmire that is the ME? Not particularly. Do I think that Erdogan has motives beyond what he has made public. Most likely. Do I believe that after all the commitments Trump has made to Israel that the withdrawal of 50 troops is going to raise doubts in their leadership? No I don't. The 50 troops have actually not withdrawn; they have been repositioned and remain in the ME along with the 5th and 6th fleets." ( and considerably more US military personnel.)

Ann herself exposed the "we're deserting the Kurds" by publishing the transcript of Rand Paul's interview on Meet the Press. Paul said that the Kurds in Iraq are not happy about the YPG and PKK and are actually turning in members of that terrorist organization. He also pointed out that there are strong economic ties between the Iraqi Kurds and Turkey.

This episode goes a long way to illustrate the unwillingness of the MSM to do any real journalistic analysis of the Turks objectives. It also strongly emphasizes the cravenness of the neo-cons and their liberal counterparts who are always willing to send some other parent's kid into combat.

Bay Area Guy said...

"House passes resolution rebuking Trump over Syria pullout"

The vote was 354-60.


Wow, what courage! I wonder what the vote would be on a Declaration of War against the Turks? (US Constitution, Article I, Section 8, Clause 11).

Josephbleau said...

The house passing a resolution to rebuke Trump makes them all the biggest assholes that exist in today’s world. While they were wasting time with this resolution why did they not pass a resolution to militarily intervene in Syria under their war powers? Why because they demand Trump do their dirty work for them so they can later blame them. The house deserves nothing, and no respect.

Josephbleau said...

The house passing a resolution to rebuke Trump makes them all the biggest assholes that exist in today’s world. While they were wasting time with this resolution why did they not pass a resolution to militarily intervene in Syria under their war powers? Why because they demand Trump do their dirty work for them so they can later blame them. The house deserves nothing, and no respect.

AllenS said...

Yancey Ward said...
And now lets get the fuck out of Afghanistan.

10/16/19, 1:35 PM

Yes, Sir. Two thumbs up.

Ken B said...

I hate it when Howard is right. Howard is right.

Amadeus 48 said...

He means I'm telling you what you would see if you could look.

Unknown said...

Ah yes, I forgot about 'Howard the Dodgy Swineherd'
Steffi D.

Seeing Red said...

...Either he's enthralled by television and the idiotic illusion that it lets you watch what's going on in the world or he really means I'm telling you what you would see if you could look....

What?

OR put your screen time to good use. Get better informed than you are. There are enuf sites out there to get a feel for their issues.

Unknown said...

Drago, I think of them as the 'Let's impeach their guy for investigating my guy's crimes'

I understand Smithfield won't let them anywhere near their stock.

S. Delmonico

Earnest Prole said...

Dear President Erdoğan:

Please don’t make me your bitch, but if you do, please be gentle.

Sincerely Yours, Donald

Nichevo said...

Howard said...
He fucked the Kurds then throwed them under the bus

Did he? First he fucked them, THEN he threw them under the bus? What was the fuck part, giving weps and money and trainers and air support?

And you know...if so, so what? DGAF.

Remember, Howie, downtown Crapistan awaits you and your Humvee full of America's finest, all ready to be turned into dog food by Mr IED or Mr Blue-on-Green.

You of all people should re-up and get back into the shit. Take the place of some decent, valuable servicemember who doesn't deserve to die or have his limbs and face ripped off him, just because you pretend you give a fuck about a Kurd.

It's okay if you're old and fat, Semtex and TATP don't discriminate. Get in there and show them that you've got more body parts than they've got bombs.

Eat your gun.

Narr said...

sunsong says it's our Christian duty to sort out the poor Muzzie-wuzzies! (Sorry sis, but not being a follower of the Nazarene, I'm immune to such twaddle.)

I find these historical analogies increasingly unhinged: Chamberlain?

For historical analogies and warnings to work, two things at least are required--
knowledge of history AND a discernible parallel between the two events or processes.

So far the warmongers here haven't shown either.

Narr
Onward Christian Soldiers!

rhhardin said...

Far too much you belong to grief. If you could forget her--
even the least of these figures so infinitely pained--
you would call down, shout down, hoping they might still be curious,
one of the angels (those beings unmighty in grief)
who, as his face darkened, would try again and again
to describe the way you kept sobbing, long ago, for her.
Angel, what was it like? And he would imitate you and never
understand that it was pain, as after a calling bird
one tries to repeat the innocent voice it is filled with.

Rilke (Duino Elegy 10, alternate version)

Narr said...

I kind of like the slogans

NO WAR FOR MUSLIMS!

NO WAR FOR KURDS!

NO WAR FOR ASSAD!

NO WAR FOR THE DEMS!

Narr
NO WAR FOR A WHILE?

Wince said...

Has anyone in congress or elsewhere rebuking Trump explained what they want US troops to actually do in the area?

KJE said...

There’s literally nothing that can be done.

It’s not like Congress could declare war.

Oh. Wait....

Brian said...

It’s the same thing as when a politician says “let me be perfectly clear”. Whatever they say you are supposed to think is clear.

William said...

Nothing in the Middle East ever works out the way smart people say it will. These limited incursions such as the Turks are now engaged in don't usually work out happily for the invaders, but who knows. They really enjoy killing each other over there. It's what gives life its savor and meaning. I'd just as soon stay out of it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Shouting Thomas said...
Could be he’s basing his opinion on confidential intelligence briefings.


Could be the moon is made of cheese.

Roughcoat said...

Either he's enthralled by television and the idiotic illusion that it lets you watch what's going on in the world or he really means I'm telling you what you would see if you could look.

You're missing his point by a country mile.

Trump is right. This is one of the best decisions he's made in his presidency.

n.n said...

The advocates for Iraq War 2.0 or Middle East/North Africa/Eastern Europe War 1.0 a.k.a The Islamic State\Cold War revisited\Social Justice progression, want to establish a Kordovo, but which turkey should we carve for the land grant? Perhaps we need redistributive change (e.g. immigration reform) or WWIII that will gerrymander the districts to reflect preferred conditions.

Roughcoat said...

"The Kurds are no angels" Ann doesn't know history but just ask the Armenians about the 1915 genocide.

... and the Anatolian Assyrians, and the Pontic Greeks.

I can tell you for a fact that the Iraqi Assyrians are not at displeased with the current situation. If they could they would eradicate the Assyrian presence in the Assyrian Nineveh Plain. They've been trying -- and the Assyrians have successfully resisted them.

Many Kurds fought with ISIS, btw.

Michael K said...

Hilarious to watch the lefties turn into neocons.

Browndog said...

Yancey Ward said...

And now lets get the fuck out of Afghanistan


This hysteria over 50 non-combat troops in Syria, and using fake slaughter videos to advance it, is designed to prevent exactly that.

AllenS said...

I would like every single person on this thread who thinks that Trump removing our military personnel from Syria is a very bad idea to post their military combat records. Go ahead chicken shit hawks, go ahead.

Roughcoat said...

I don't know if you meant to say that Kurds are Arabs, but they're not. The ethnic group is Iranian.

They are not Iranian. They are related to the Iranians; "cousins," if you will. Like the Iranians (like you and me, in fact) they are Indo-Europeans, who arrived in the region in the early second millennium B.C.

If you called an Iranian a Kurd, or a Kurd an Iranian, they would both be offended. They are ethnically different; rather like Polish Slavs and Montenegrin Slavs. There is a fairly substantial Kurdish population in western Iran and, yes, they are conducting a low-grade insurgency against the central government.

Michael K said...

The Democrats had a brief meeting with Trump today. They had engineered a vote with the Praetorian guard of the GOP to stage an "event' and walked out.

Drago said...

ARM: "Could be the moon is made of cheese."

Yep. No doubt Trump does not receive confidential briefings. It never happens.

LOL

This is the lefty mind running amok.

Gee, its not like Trump explicitly ran on getting the US out of wars where US troops have been caught in the middle of centuries old tribal conflicts.

Nope.

For ARM and the rest of the armchair generals history began again this morning.

Hey, you know what we never hear the lefties comment upon? How obama's "30 day" excursion into Syria turned into 10 years.

Wow. Obama and George W have alot in common.

No Blood For Not Even Oil!!!!

Phidippus said...

"The Kurds are 'not angels' said Trump..."

Who knew?

Actually, the Kurds aren't even The Kurds, in the sense of a monolithic group, or even as a starting point for cheese.

AA said: "Trump could quite rationally think: Americans don't care if Turkey and Syria fight, especially when both sides are against ISIS."

I'm one of those would would agree with that.

The thing I have a problem with, is that if any of them were ever given the impression (assuming that they were) that we'd be with them indefinitely, that was wrong.

Of course, it's wrong in the same way that things are often wrong in our system: The people who make the open-ended promises are not the ones who have to implement, or pay for them.

People in that part of the world are used to perpetual low-level warfare as a condition of Nature. (Like the "Native Americans" were before the white people got here.) When a temporary lull happens, that's the time to strip and clean your weapons.

The AK-47 was designed in part with that in mind.

Drago said...

Ken B: "I hate it when Howard is right. Howard is right."

Now you are both jokes.

Howard can't even look up definitions of the terms he uses, so yeah. I'm not surprised you find yourself aligned with him.

Good luck with that.

Drago said...

Old lefty hotness: RED LINES!! Assad must go!!

New Lefty (and Ken B) hotness: We must put US soldiers on the front lines to protect Assad's Syrian territorial integrity!!

Drago said...

MInnesota farm guy at 4:37 gets it right.

Notice that Ken B and all the lefty dummies can't even identify which Kurdish groups want what and why the US is supposed to provide it.

It's been days now and all we hear is Orange Man Bad and Traitor!! But not a single sentient description of precisely what the US is supposed to accomplish and what an End Game outcome we are looking for.

And we'll never get it.

Just more Mueller-like rantings by people who couldn't identify the business end of single weapon or weapon system.

Unknown said...

They have a problem with Turkey, they have a problem at a border. It's not our border.

Yep. We have problems with our own borders. Trump's campaign promises were to secure our border and stay out of foreign war quagmires. He's simply delivering on those promises.

rcocean said...

I just saw Trump's press conference with the Italian Prime Minister. You should go watch it. Its a masterpiece. Of course, the press condenses it down to 12 words to make Trump look bad. You need to see Trump's body language and tone of voice AND know the question he's responding to. Just putting snippets in cold harsh text doesn't represent it well. For example, his attack on Lindsey was much milder in tone then indicated by the words.

Trump is the only President since Reagan who actually became POTUS to do things he promised. All the rest of them, just wanted to President. It was a career goal. And Its obvious he doesn't like writing letters to soldiers who have been killed.

rcocean said...

When i was growing up the Democrats pretended to be the Doves. They were for peace. I now know, that was just all a scam. The D's are always about politics. Always about Who/Whom. They loved the USSR, so they were peace-nicks. But if its someone else, well it depends. And so, if Trump was starting wars, they'd be Back to being doves. But NOW Trump is a dove, so they're all outraged war-hawks -crying about the kurds and wanting war with Turkey.

Drago said...

Michael K: "The Democrats had a brief meeting with Trump today. They had engineered a vote with the Praetorian guard of the GOP to stage an "event' and walked out."

Yep.

Today, congress voted against getting out of a conflict they never voted for and refuse to vote for now.

Discuss.

rcocean said...

I'm just shocked at how Trump has betrayed "The Kurds" given that we've talked about them day after day for five years. Oh wait, no one's ever said anything about them. Or knows anything about them other than what's in Wikipedia. Suddenly, they are our noble allies and "What's best for the Kurds" is our new foreign policy. Remember the South Vietnamese?

We fought a long bloody war to help them out, and a lot of very good USA young men died, and yet, who remembered the South Vietamese even 5 years after the war ended? I went and visited Bangkok in 2015, and our guide was a North Vietnamese who'd spent the war shooting SAM's at US bombers. He was a jolly fellow and we had a good laugh over that. But all those young Americans are still dead.

Michael K said...

I would like every single person on this thread who thinks that Trump removing our military personnel from Syria is a very bad idea to post their military combat records.

Hell, I'd just ask to see their DD 214s. I wonder how many know what that is ?

n.n said...

A token force would, in the best case, produce another Somalia, and, in the worst case, another Libya, or perhaps another Chinook of mostly Americans and Kurdish collateral damage.

Reviewing the indigenous range of Kurdish tribes, it looks like establishing Kurdovo would require carving a large section from Turkey, leaving survivors to fight over the profitable arms, legs, head, and giblets. That said, there is a definite risk of progress. #HateLovesAbortion Reconcile.

Qwinn said...

The Left is simply lying. They don't give a shit about the Kurds. When it was pointed out back in 2003 forward that Saddam *gassed* the Kurds and that was a good justification for *that* war, the Left refused to even consider that that was a serious justification. Every fucking word they're saying is bullshit manipulation. I seriously don't know how they can live with themselves. I couldn't.

minnesota farm guy said...

@AllenS It is amusing how easily so many people who have neither service time nor have ever heard a shot fired in anger are willing to sacrifice 50 US personnel in a vain attempt to resist Turkey's pursuit of its self interest. I certainly would not be so cavalier about their lives and I would've a hard time living with myself if I did nothing to avoid their loss.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

I thought the prog-left wanted our troops out of harms way?

Guess that was all a buncha BS. Like everything else that is the prog left.

Roy Lofquist said...

I liked Ike. Ike warned us about the military/industrial complex.
I liked Bob. Bob wrote a song about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEmI_FT4YHU&feature=youtu.be

John henry said...

Rcocean

I just watched the press conference too. Where was the unhinged maniac we are told about constantly.

I saw a man more hinged than the hingiest barn door discourse for about 10 minutes with no notes about what he was doing in Syria. Or not doing.

As dignified and presidential as any president ever. Moving, even.

I recommend it. If nothing else just that part. The whole thing is worth watching but especially that part.

John Henry

John henry said...

I've got 2 dd214s Michael. Both honorable

John Henry

John henry said...

Rcocean said

But all those young Americans are still dead.

And they were all my age.

And the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese who died because the Demmies wouldn't even pay for bullets. Not us troops, not air support. Just ammo for the svn army.

I understand that PDJT is not repeating that particular mistake. I understand also that it needs to be kept quiet so most people won't hear about it. Unless the media can figure some way to turn it against him.

John Henry