"They had already missed out on Iceland, the trip’s main attraction. By Monday, a week and a half in, travelers were gathered with their bags and cameras, looking forward to being on land again in Scotland. As the 2,018-passenger vessel neared shore, according to two passengers, a voice came over the public-address system announcing that weather would prevent it from making yet another stop. 'That’s when the riots broke out on the ship,' says Cody McNutt, 31, of Denver, who was onboard with his girlfriend and family members.... A photo of a letter dated Oct. 7 showed that the company was offering passengers a 25 percent discount on future trips 'to demonstrate our gratitude for your patience.' 'That set everyone off again,' McNutt says. 'None of us want to get on their ships ever again.'"
From "'At a certain point, you just lose it:' Passengers revolt and riot aboard Norwegian Spirit cruise ship" (WaPo).
The cruise ships and their passengers deserve each other. The world is real, not a fantasy, and that's that, whether you spend money or make money on the fantasy.
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79 comments:
There are some of us who enjoy those days at sea, and would be happy to take a cruise with no port calls at all. In fact, veteran cruisers spend port days on board, when they can have the ship to themselves. De gustibus....
I have never taken a cruise. I never will, although I have been on plenty of ocean-going vessels.
People don't view the ocean the way they should. The ocean is actually a desert. A vast, featureless, and more often than not temperamental desert. The cruise ship is just a Conestoga wagon carrying the people and provisions as safely as it can while transiting this desert on its way somewhere more interesting where the ocean can be viewed more safely.
It boggles my mind that people fork down thousands for this kind of recreation. I'd rather take a plane and be in Belize in 6 hours and begin enjoying myself the same day if I'm going to spend that kind of money.
The #stupid tag. Ha.
Similar to flights delayed by weather. It happens. Flying in a storm and docking in a storm are dangerous. You picked an activity that can be impacted by weather. You can be disappointed but not mad.
The whole concept of a cruise ship vacation has always been completely unappealing to me. Being essentially trapped for long periods of time in a banal purgatory with strangers, and with an outside possibility of something like the story here happening... or worse. No thanks.
The cruise ships and their passengers deserve each other. The world is real, not a fantasy, and that's that, whether you spend money or make money on the fantasy."
This deserves the tag of "some people are judgmental". Or "the world is real, not fantasy" tag. That tag could cover just about everything from entertainment to politics and certainly on every thread based on an article in the NYT or the WaPo.
The cruise ships and their passengers deserve each other. The world is real, not a fantasy, and that's that, whether you spend money or make money on the fantasy.
I don't understand this. The anger seems excessive.
A cruise ship is a prison: you can't leave without permission.
It's a prison with good food, entertainment, and few restrictions. But it's still a prison. Perhaps you should understand this before buying a cruise?
The world is real, not a fantasy, and that's that. Except if you take Adderall and then your news story is a kind of fraud and you should have told me!
Docking was not viable, so the ship spent extra planned days at sea, where passengers were on edge about their choice of a hope and myth to [temporarily] suppress reality.
They should have stuck to the 3 hour tour.
Does the word "riot" really make sense in this context? The article doesn't make any mention of violence or destruction of property.
Passengers revolt and riot
That's the first riot I've seen where the rioters stand still.
Oh, wait, it's just fake news from Whappo.
Never was interested in cruises. Especially after hearing about a friend's Hawaiian cruise, when he admitted his party just ate their way across the Pacific.
Smoked salmon to die for, I'm sure.
I have friends who swear by cruises. My wife and I have never had any desire to be housed/enclosed on a ship at sea with 5,000 drunk, overeating people. Not today, not ever.**
**We always tell each other, the one exception is an Alaskan cruise, but I'm not sure we'll ever get to it.
Althouse: "The cruise ships and their passengers deserve each other. The world is real, not a fantasy, and that's that,"...wow,Althouse, that seems a pretty darn harsh judgment of the passengers - what did they do to deserve that? Read the article and the most they seemed to do was complain to onboard employees and 'shout' ....(Zzzzz/boring!). And you think they live in a "fantasy" because they're unhappy w/ being bilked on a vacation purchase? Not to mention, I suggest you missed the much better lede for this supposed story: ....WAPO.The poster child for hyped headlines and adjectives in contemporary journalism - they headline shipboard 'revolt' and 'riot' when passengers simply complain and occasionally shout at being screwed on their vacation.
I'm sympathetic, I guess, to their plight, that they chose. Reality trumps fantasy.
The Ocean is a mean mistress. One mistake and you can be dead. I am sure that the weather prevented the ship from docking and/or sending passengers ashore via the launch's. The Caption has a duty to protect the passengers from their own stupidity as much as possible. So I say to them, Mother Nature is a stern taskmaster. Suck it up Buttercup.
Having said that the worst cruise ship I was ever on was a Norwegian cruise ship.
And on another cruise ship we were suppose to stop and have the launch's take us ashore on Easter Island. The wind and seas were too rough so we circled the island several times, getting as close as the ship could get so we could see the statutes. So it meant more time at sea, not a bad thing for me since I was in the US Navy.
The rioters were probably those 65 plus. The Class of '68. Just like Vietnam again. Stick it to the Man. Question authority.
More modern day narcissism. I am more important than the ocean. Bend to my fucking will, Poseidon!
Not a real mutiny unless one or more of the passengers had a squawking parrot.
They should have let the passengers disembark into the sea and swim to port. It would have been the right thing to do.
One rule of thumb for travel is: you shouldn't take a cruise if you don't want to risk spending time at sea.
I spent real time 3-1/2 years serving on board the USS Waddell DD24.
That was a real ship, when we hit bad weather we got real sick, and when the food was bad, it was real bad.
I now look back on those years with some nostalgia, and I can tell you that modern cruse ships are not ships.
They’re little more than self propelled floating entertainment barges.
There must be more to the story. I suspect that the weather did not seem so bad to the passengers as to justify an inability to bring the ship into port. They are thinking that the weather was a convenience excuse, that something else was at play. I don't recall hearing about much rough weather lately in Europe.
Extra charges are incurred for excursions in the ports of call--the article implies that those are not refundable. Really? I did not know that. Booking those excursions at the last minute was smarter than I realized, even though some were sold out.
I was on a cruise ship in bad weather once, I became quite seasick. I sure would not want to try to dock in such weather.
Well, someone sounds a bit harsh today. Cruise ship vacations are not for me, and apparently not for the host, but plenty of folks like them. Yes, the cruise lines have to take safety into account, and the passengers should know this. Most passengers know that airplanes are delayed, rerouted, and flights cancelled due to weather. But people don't take cruises as often as they fly, so perhaps they haven't learned this.
I can understand that sailing around the north Atlantic Ocean in October could be not as pleasant as the Caribbean in January.
The substantive difference between a cruise ship and a jail: seasickness.
Who takes a cruise in the North Atlantic this time of year without expecting foul weather?
"The cruise ships and their passengers deserve each other. The world is real, not a fantasy, and that's that, whether you spend money or make money on the fantasy."
Why do you think a cruise ship is "fantasy." If you had ever taken a cruise you would realize it's just a week at an all inclusive resort, except it moves locations a lot and there's a lot more to do. Besides, the fact that you don't like some particular activity, whether it's flying, cruising, or just wearing shorts, does not mean that others do not as well. It's called Freedom of choice, which often applies to something other than a woman's plumbing, and you should learn to deal with it, because sometimes you come off as a really nasty piece of work.
Cruise lines market a trouble-free experience to people who want that sort of thing. Which is a lot of people, especially the elderly.
A quick search indicates that long-haul passenger aircraft get 3-4 times the passenger miles per gallon, but this is apples to oranges -- the ships also provide accommodations and entertainment for multiple days.
In some ways, cruise ships are more environmentally friendly than aircraft:
-- tourists conveyed by aircraft need more destination infrastructure -- lodging, food, entertainment, and so on.
-- Most coastal destinations have a port suitable for cruise ships, or at least a place for boats to offload a cruise ship. Compare that with the airport facilities required for air tourism, which must generally be much larger and have a higher environmental impact.
-- Cruise ships are predictable. Arrival times and capacity are known far in advance, allowing planning.
-- Cruise ships are flexible. If one port is not available, another can be selected. And all that infrastructure can be used
-- Cruise ships are efficient in other ways than fuel consumption. A cruise ship can be utilized year around, rather than just in tourist season. If one cruise ship needs refurbishment, another almost identical ship can be substituted.
Cruise ships provide exotic adventures to the mobility impaired, such as the elderly, while providing less developed locations access to tourist dollars without committing a large number of resources to building tourist infrastructure.
For most Americans, a cruise ship experience goes well outside the comfort zones of security -- financially and personally. Not that anything bad will happen but if it does....
I am trying to imagine why Norwegian would still be sailing in the North Atlantic this late in the year. I am also wondering why passengers would take a cruise this late in the year.
That said, I am a bit out of patience with the snotty put-down of taking cruises. I have taken a cruise through the Alaska Inside Passage and thoroughly enjoyed it, despite my general, strong, dislike of guided tours. If you want to take the White Pass & Yukon RR, for instance, your choice to get to Skagway is ship or small plane — the average 737 is going to have issues with a 3500 foot runway. Guided on wildlife excursions at least know where the animals are. Plus I got to see an iceberg calve off a glacier — tough to do if you aren’t on a ship.
There are two kinds of harbors for cruise ships. For the big harbors, the ship comes right into the dock, for the smaller ones the ship anchors further out and passengers are ferried in on a small boat. I've never cruised in Europe, so I don't know harbor sizes. But I can readily believe that ferrying passengers in even moderately severe weather is too dangerous an undertaking.
The frustration does not justify the "riot," which actually read more as a loud demonstration.
PA: "Ladies and gentlemen, we are sorry that the ship cannot make port. However, we are offering dinghys to those who want to row the 5 miles to go ashore. Please be aware that the weather is bad - bad enough to sink a cruise ship. Stay warm".
Norwegian had to cancel Cuba on a cruise, and they gave an incredible deal to those that did the cruise. I guess the difference was this was pre embarkation.
I think the daily exposure to us commenters is turning Althouse into a curmudgeon. It took long enough.
Took a three night cruise to Bahamas from Port Canaveral recently. Too late to cancel. Told at very last minute one of the two stops would be cancelled because of Dorian damage. Not surprised at that but suprised Company claimed it was going forward for so long (weeks after Dorian). Folks didn't seem to mind.
I am betting that if Meadehouse has been denied entry to the baseball stadium On their recent jaunt because gate was frozen shut the reaction would not have been “the world is real”. I bet there would have been a complaint. Passengers felt misled and cheated. They complained. The cruise line essentially flipped them the bird.
Althouse said "The cruise ships and their passengers deserve each other. "
Personally, cruising would be akin to experiencing all nine rings of hell simultaneously, however, Norwegian Lines sold a commodity; a cruise with a defined itinerary. The passengers bought that commodity in good faith. Norwegian Lines failed to deliver. The passengers should reasonably expect some compensation. I'd be ropeable.
It's not as if the Norwegians haven't had thousands of years experience on those seas in all weather.
Cruise across the ocean? No, agree a plane flight is better idea. But cruising amongst sights is nice.
Cruise ships are like a moving hotel. Lot of people but many fine restaurants, activities, etc. And you visit numerous sites without packing and un packing. Maybe it's not for everybody but we always found it to be a great way to relax. Caribbean cruises are my least favorite; the veneer of exotic places hiding the sheer poverty of the natives. Alaska cruises most favorite except for the dreadful flights back from Anchorage. The time on the ocean might be like a desert but there are pools, things to do, shows and fun.
We would like to do an European river cruise but probably won't.
Don't understand the notion that cruise people and cruise ships deserve each other. Sounds like someone who either knows nothing about it or someone who had a really bad people experience on a cruise.
Went on two cruises with the wife. Enjoyed both trips thoroughly.
For those afraid to fly the Cunard line offers trips from NY to Southhampton for very reasonable fares. If you are willing to go in the winter and sleep in an inside cabin you can travel for cheaper than staying at home. Less than a grand one way. Five nights.
Lucid-Ideas said...
The ocean is actually a desert.
Thanks for the Horse With No Name earworm.....
Wild horses.
As in, there aren't enough wild horses to drag me by the feet onto one of those cruise ships.
@Temujin, wife and I really enjoyed our cruise to Alaska. You really should put it on your bucket list, and high up on that list besides.
Since 2005 (George Smith disappearance) my husband has said if he was ever going to murder me it would be on a cruise. So on days when I am getting on his nerves he’ll ask me if I’m in the mood for a vacation. A cruise perhaps? I’m fairly confident he is teasing.
Bleh! Is my statement really so hard to understand?
"The cruise ships and their passengers deserve each other. The world is real, not a fantasy, and that's that, whether you spend money or make money on the fantasy."
The idea of a wonderful, cosseted set of days on a big boat is a fantasy that is sold by the cruise ship company and bought by the passengers. Much money exchanged hands because a lot of people involved themselves with this fantasy. The real world still existed and it interfered with the delivery of the fantasy. Everyone KNEW this was possible, but it wasn't what they wanted to talk about, because they had this fantasy — one side buying and the other side selling. When the buyers of the fantasy had to face reality, they RIOTED. They chanted for a refund. The company, of course, has already set up the contract law so that you don't get a refund when things like this happen, which of course they had to plan on. And the ticket prices are what they are because REFUNDS are not what's in the contract all the passengers agreed to. But these buyers of fantasy were the target of the sellers of fantasy, and their inattentive bullshit innocence was something the company used to its advantage as it offered the fantasy. But now there's something of a publicity problem, and the passengers seem to think that if they behave like barbarians they can get the money they willingly spent, money that would have been a whole lot more if the company policy was to give refunds for bad weather. Yes, the passengers here are awful and willfully stupid, but that's the market for cruises! The company is dealing with the kind of people it entraps in these inane trips. They're all welcome to each other as far as I'm concerned.
"Cruise ships provide exotic adventures to the mobility impaired, such as the elderly, while providing less developed locations access to tourist dollars without committing a large number of resources to building tourist infrastructure."
On behalf of my cruising paraplegic relative, I take exception to Althouse's condescension.
They certainly seem to be obnoxious, "I want to speak to your manager" type of people, but I still think "rioted" is a histrionic description of their behavior. They all forgot to read Lao Tzu: "A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving."
Reminds me of a Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again.
Personally, I appreciate AA attitude. Reminds me of comments I read this morning regarding California wildfires and shutting off electricity.
"Fuck California, they all deserve it"
"Those people can eat turds and die"
"Serves them right for voting for Democrats"
"Hope the big earthquake drops them all in the ocean"
Does the word "riot" really make sense in this context? The article doesn't make any mention of violence or destruction of property.
It was a Quiet Riot
I generally think Ann is reasonable and is often
criticized unfairly but here her comments are clearly off base. If you have never been on a cruise ship and think it would not be your cup of tea, that's fine but to denigrate the people who enjoy it as she does here is petty and unbecoming.
Cruising is a very good way to see places that you would never see otherwise. There is no packing and unpacking at each stop, no hunting for a different hotel and restaurant at each stop. If you find a place you really like you can go back and spend the time to really see it. The food we have had was good to very good. We do not over-eat and we do not drink but we still enjoy cruising.
When things do not go right some ship's crews handle it better than others, it appears that the Norwegian Spirit crew did not.
I'd be interested to know whether the fare for a late-season cruise like this is lower than the fare for a mid-season cruise. If there's an increased risk of bad weather preventing the full cruise itinerary, and you knowingly pay a reduced fare that reflects that risk, then you shouldn't complain. But if the cruise line doesn't disclose the risk, then OK, complain away!
Whatever the case, this cruise line clearly screwed the pooch by the way they handled this situation. It's bad business to forget that the customer is ALWAYS right, even when he/she/it is wrong.
As for those who mock people who enjoy cruises, I'm sure that many people who enjoy cruises think that the things you do for enjoyment are pretty silly -- stock car races, symphony concerts, golf, art auctions, duck hunting, film festivals, Trump rallies, Warren rallies, etc.
The 1970s Cruise Ship Nightmare That Ended in a Mutiny
Courtesy of Robert Klara
In the summer of 1978, the S.S. America sent passengers over the edge.
It was a little after 3:00 a.m. on July 2, 1978 when those aboard the S.S. America realized the voyage was doomed.
Things had gotten off to an uneasy start nine hours before, when some 900 passengers assembled at Manhattan’s West 54th Street pier and found a problem with the tickets. Some paying customers had never received them, while others couldn’t find their names on the manifest. Finally, with the ship running late, a voice barked: “Get on board, tickets or no tickets!”
But now that the voyage was underway, passengers couldn’t believe the predicament they were in. Many discovered that faulty plumbing had flooded their cabins. Beds lacked bedsheets—and often mattresses, too. Toilets refused to flush. While dismayed passengers darted around trying to find a spot to settle, so did a phalanx of cockroaches and rats. S.S. America, one woman later said, was a “floating garbage can.”
Bad as the cabins were, the factor that tipped anger into chaos was this: at least 100 paying passengers never found cabins at all. Homeless at sea, they massed outside the purser’s office and began chanting: “We want to get off!”
Conditions deteriorated quickly. The angriest passengers picked fistfights with the crew. Harbor police boarded the ship. By now the America had dropped anchor near Coney Island, and the captain acceded to the mob’s demands. After the crew opened the hull’s watertight doors, 250 passengers clambered down rope ladders, jumping down to the decks of tugboats pulled up below. The tugs dumped the cruise refugees on Staten Island, then took off. Venture’s promise of chauffeured limousine rides home for everyone came to nothing
Read the rest, it's hilarious (now)
https://www.history.com/news/cruise-ship-nightmare-ss-america-mutiny
"A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving."
Exactly my attitude when I went to Department of Motor Vehicles for a Real ID.
I basically agree with Our Hostess but I view the customers with bafflement rather than scorn. I cannot imagine anything less enjoyable than being on a cruise; even if you go with friends, you may debark with fewer. It seems similar to going on an interminable vacation trip in your parents' car, but if you had to tip them to get a soda or a snack to eat.
Now, going out in one's own sailboat to travel to no place in particular for a day or so or less, that I can understand.
To each his own.
@FullMoon:
Exactly my attitude when I went to Department of Motor Vehicles for a Real ID.
Ha. I know the DMV has long been the poster child for inefficient government bureaucracy, but at least here in Florida, they have made huge strides. I recently renewed my license, but after having done it online once before, I was required to go into the office for this renewal. I made an appointment, was seen within 5 minutes, and out within 20 minutes. Has anyone else noticed a marked improvement in their local government services?
There’s Got to be a Morning AFFFFTTTTTEEEERRRRRRRRRR!!!!!🎶🌊
"Yes, the passengers here are awful and willfully stupid, but that's the market for cruises! The company is dealing with the kind of people it entraps in these inane trips. They're all welcome to each other as far as I'm concerned."
By Damn!
If I'd wanted to experience discos, casinos, tub'o'lard buffets and obnoxious tourists, I'd go to Vegas.
I used to joke about the day when someone would try to sue Mother Nature.
Looks like we're getting closer to that day.
Althouse doubles down at 4:39, as expected, but in my opinion only makes it worse. I'm not about to write an essay long rebuttal based upon my first hand experience of cruising. I'll just say that her comment is itself her own negative hyper legal fantasy of cruising. I'm blocked by the wapo paywall so I'm relying on the comments above, but shouting "rioted" in all caps seems desperately defensive on her part.
The North Sea and the North Atlantic are notorious for the their bad weather and frequent storms. I wouldn't go on a "Cruise" there, no matter what. And why would anyone go to Iceland? Its full of Ice.
Althouse knows that these ships are filled to the gunwales with deplorables. But not so on the Queen Mary2 NY to Southhampton. Posh if you will pay up. Drive to NY. QE2 back and forth. Never have to step on a plane. Better, way better, than a choochoo trip.
Althouse harps on fantasy. I don't get it. We have been on numerous cruises and I do not recall a single notion of fantasy. Where is she getting that nonsense? Clearly she has never been on a cruise and has a snooty attitude about those who do.
Does this come from watching Love Boat back in the 70's and 80's, Althouse? Cruises are not at all like "Love Boat." Surely you don't think people who go on cruises are hoping to have a Love Boat experience.
"Does this come from watching Love Boat back in the 70's and 80's, Althouse?"
Never watched the show.
My opinion of cruise ships is based on reading many newspaper and magazine articles about the business and from the great essay "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again."
An older couple I know have been on many cruises. Sit around, read books, think about things. Relax.
Another couple, early thirties, party, eat, drink play games, dance the night away. They all love it.
Neither have ever complained about having any problems at all.
J. Farmer said "They all forgot to read Lao Tzu: "A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving."Things have changed since Tzu's day.
Very few countries will allow travelers without onward travel booked or return ticket to enter. You can't even board the outbound aircraft if that is the policy of the country you are traveling to. Eric of The Endless Adventure 'splains at (6:21)
A millennial trend is travelers who are making their living by vlogging their experiences on Youtube. The Endless Adventure also vlogs about food and their enthusiasm makes them a favorite.
Not all cruises are alike. A cruise on a small ship—150 passengers, say— can be pleasant, even luxurious. Those cruises don’t attract the kind of people who just want to eat and drink to excess and get rowdy when things don’t go as planned.
Norwegian Lines sold a commodity; a cruise with a defined itinerary. The passengers bought that commodity in good faith. Norwegian Lines failed to deliver.
If you actually read the contract/ticket, you will find that Norwegian Lines sold an opportunity, depending on the weather and conditions, to a cruise with a conditional itinerary that, should conditions prevent the itinerary from being realized, the purchaser agreed in advance would result in no refund. I would certainly argue that the cruise lines should be required to make this far more clear, it is the deal these folks signed up for.
...why would anyone go to Iceland? Its full of Ice.
Most beautiful country I have ever visited (although I flew, rather than cruise).
I don’t have an overwhelming interest in cruising. I felt claustrophobic after a few days in New York and on Oahu. IF I were to cruise I wouldn’t take my husband (not because of his fantasy of murdering me but because he is extremely active and would drive me insane) and it would have to be structured to my interests. My cooking class instructor organizes cruises. In the past she has done Italy. While on the ship she runs cooking classes and at each port she takes her group to local markets, farms, or restaurants. At the restaurants the chefs usually conduct classes on the local cuisine.
I think that sounds interesting, but not interesting enough to actually do it.
why Norwegian and cruiseniks would still be sailing in the North Atlantic this late in the year...
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They believe in ice_free Arctic?!
Windjammer cruises or even container ship cruises sound infinitely more interesting than the Chuck E. Cheese mega-cruises.
“Rioted” is self serving bullshit Althouse.
You just swallowed the spin whole.
So a few years ago I went on a cruise with a group of those Althouse calls inane and stupid.
There 11 of us stupid inane folk.
One anesthesia researcher who runs Canada’s largest pain clinic
One physics PhD
One computer science MSc
2 MBAs
One nuclear medicine inventor
One English lit PhD
One robotics grad student
Two nurses one with an MSc
No lawyers.
The unexpected impacts trips all the time. I myself have had 1 trip inconvenienced by weather and another ruined by spending most of the time in the hospital, and I've known people whose trips were impacted by volcano, and on at least 2 occasions death. This is why trip insurance is purchased.
Granted it's not in the cruise line's interest to stress the whole "we can't guarantee the planned excursion will happen as described" but any operation charging an admission fee from professional sports down to bingo parlors include language that the schedule may be altered by management.
It's hard to believe the cruise passengers are that ignorant, but the lawyers have been so busy making purchase contracts into the size of a book that 99% of people don't bother to read that the few key points that common sense says should be emphasized are buried in legalese that is signed off on sight unseen most times.
"My opinion of cruise ships is based on reading many newspaper and magazine articles about the business and from the great essay 'A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again.'"
An intermittently amusing piece I'll never read again, swaddled and smothered by the author's misanthropy, written to flatter the preconceptions of people who just *know* what sort of people do something as déclassé as cruise. Those silly, shallow, nattering people who think they're going to enjoy themselves. Dude didn't even get off the ship at Cozumel.
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