October 26, 2019

"If Senate Republicans vote to remove Trump on anything like the current facts, even the worst interpretation of them, it would leave the GOP a smoldering ruin."

"It wouldn’t matter who the Democrats nominated for 2020. They could run Bernie Sanders on a ticket with Elizabeth Warren and promise to make Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez secretary of the treasury and Ilhan Omar secretary of defense, and they’d still win. A significant portion of the Republican party would consider a Senate conviction of Trump a dastardly betrayal....  Trump himself isn’t going to get convicted by the Senate and say: 'Well, I’m a little disappointed, to be honest. But it was a close call, and Mike Pence is a great guy, and I’m just grateful I had the opportunity to serve in the White House for more than three years.' He won’t go away quietly to lick his wounds. He won’t delete his Twitter account. He won’t make it easy on anyone. He will vent his anger and resentment at every opportunity. It will be 'human scum' every single day. And it’s not as though the media are going to lose their interest in the most luridly telegenic politician that we’ve ever seen. The mainstream press would be delighted to see Trump destroyed, yet sad to bid him farewell. The obvious way to square the circle would be to continue to give Trump lavish coverage in his post-presidency. He’d be out of the White House but still driving screaming CNN chyrons every other hour."

Writes Rich Lowry in "The Problem with President Pence" (National Review).

This reminds me of something I wrote on October 9th, "What if the Senate really does produce a supermajority to convict Trump and ousts him from office? What happens next?":
I think the entire theater of impeachment is taking place within the false security that the Senate will never be able to convict. But what if the momentum gets going and 2/3 of the Senators vote to convict? Yes, Pence becomes President, but what I mean is: What happens to the American people who voted Trump into office and who — from the moment they won — have had the experience of seeing their President treated like a big, horrible mistake? Their choice was never honored, never treated as respectable. They got to see that their opinion never mattered and was never supposed to prevail. And what will Trump do? Freed from the responsibilities of the presidency and past all the fighting of the impeachment battle, he won't hide away. He will be out and about, energized and inventing more new ways of being a politician in America, and he will have an immense audience, overshadowing what any other political candidate can do. The new temptation will be to prosecute him for crimes, but, again, how will this affect the millions of people who thought they won the election and then saw their victory taken away?

144 comments:

Shouting Thomas said...

This seems like a vast understatement on your part. I see something happening here that's far more important than my support for President Trump.

The Democrats refused to accept the results of the 2016 election.

It's only 12 months to the next election. Obviously, this entire theatrical proceeding is designed to undermine the 2020 elections. The Democrats seem to know Trump is a cinch for re-election.

So, the Democrats refuse to abide by the likely outcome of the 2020 election, too.

If you only accept the outcome of elections when you get the results you want, elections are a farce.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The problem is, the real criminals are all on the left/D. Starting and ending with Hillary. Some Brennan, Clapper, Comey, Strozk as the creamy filling.

BamaBadgOR said...

Poor Moral Mittens. An impeachment vote means he has to decide which he hates more: Trump or a wacko Dem elected president. It'll be tough for him to decide.

gilbar said...

Hey! Let's Play Remember when?
Remember when Julius Caesar was an elected official?
Remember when the Senate decided to STRIP him of his elected Office
Remember when the Senate decided to CHARGE him with Criminal Offenses?
what happened then?

Now, let's Play What IF!
What IF The House Impeaches President Trump?
What IF The Senate votes to Remove President Trump?
What IF The Republican Party disintegrates
What IF The Democrats ride to Washington, saying; WE, are in Complete Control?
what happens then ?

Which brings me back to my question on the last post:
WHEN the shooting war starts, will most people just sit it out?

iowan2 said...

We experienced the Kavanaugh lyching by Senate Democrats. The lies the Democrats were caught in. Fienstien's actions that kept the Blasey-Ford complaint secret from the Chairman, seems beyond the pale to me.
Now we have Barr/Durham. Without wish casting. Reporting is, documents are in the hands of Flynn's Counsel, that prove the FBI edited Flynn's phony interview. The FBI doctored the sequence of questions and answers, to make it appear bad, and invented question and answers that that never existed. Way more than that is being investigated, but it's to early to get exited.
Question? How can a single person vote for a democrat that ignores governance in favor of raw power grabs.

Heartless Aztec said...

We're long over due for a Convention of the States. Make it happen.

Teresa from Hershey said...

Jesus, the comfy class really are in a cult. Not "based on the current facts, which is not impeachable." Not "this is a coup to deny democracy the result it wanted." Not "it's wrong."

No, it'll be "the destruction of the Republican Party, because Trump will tweet mean things to them and the press will report it."

MountainMan said...

Since there are currently no "facts" that have been revealed for which he should be impeached and removed from office. If it did happen, it would not leave just the GOP a smoldering ruin, it would leave our republic a smoldering ruin. The Democrats and anti-Trumpers have already done enough damage, destroying the credibly of the DOJ, FBI, IRS, etc., that many of us have lost faith in the government altogether, and I am not sure it can ever be restored. Trump seems to be the only thing preventing our descent into a single-party totalitarian state. If that comes to pass, my wife and I have made our decision: we're leaving, although trying to decide which country to escape to is sort of a "least worst choice" kind of decision. And President Warren has already pledged to make that potentially a financially ruinous decision as well.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The democrat party is corrupt. Certain employees inside the FBI and CIA, who serve Hillary Clinton - the most corrupt politician in the universe, need to go to jail and rot.

More Bombshells From the Flynn Prosecution

Key:

Many of the juicy tidbits come from texts between Peter Strzok and his illicit lover, Andrew McCabe’s Special Counsel Lisa Page. These texts have dribbled out over a considerable period of time, and I take it that at least some of the ones quoted here are new. For example:

As news of the “salacious and unverified” allegations of the “Steele dossier” dominated the media, Strzok wrote to Page: “Sitting with Bill watching CNN. A TON more out. . . We’re discussing whether, now that this is out, we can use it as a pretext to go interview some people.”

So Hillary Clinton’s fictitious campaign “dossier” was explicitly viewed by the FBI as a “pretext to go interview some people.” Including General Flynn, apparently. The rot at Obama’s FBI went very deep.

gilbar said...

the polls "say" that Trump has At Least 40% approval of Americans
320,000,000 * 0.40 = 128,000,000

there were 62,000,000 people that VOTED LAST time

So, ONE PERCENT of those numbers are about a million 1%er's (1.28M to 620,000)
Of those One Percenters; how many have AR-15's How many have More than one?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

MOre Strozk slime:

April 20, 2017, Strzok texts Page: “I had literally just gone to find this phone to tell you I want to talk to you about media leak strategy with DOJ before you go.” Ex. 2.

tim maguire said...

Fortunately, we’ll never find out as the Senate won’t vote to convict under the current set of facts. The bad faith on the part of Trump’s critics is too obvious, the impeachment hearings too cynical and dishonest.

Democrats are protected by their own mendacity.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The leadership of the democrat party is a combination of 3rd world corrupt dictator and corrupt totalitarian state.

tim in vermont said...

He’s right. It’s also clear that they scored on Trump when the got to him with the false accusations and lying and got him to say “human scum.” Just like they scored on Kavanaugh when they got him angry by accusing him of being the ringleader of a merry crew of gang rapists.

It’s nearly superhuman to be able to keep your equanimity when having your reputation dragged through the mud unjustly on the national stage, I imagine.

I think I would just stop voting if they remove him based on what are clearly lies and half truths, the other half of which the media refuses to report. A tenth of what has been shown to be true about the Clintons would do, but now they have only four flushing accusations, “The walls are closing in! .... Asymptotically...”

Hagar said...

Overwrought, but Trump - though not a Republican himself - has 95% approval among the people who voted Republican in the last election.
That is a lot of people for the leftist Democrats to totally piss off!

gilbar said...

Oh, here's some comparison numbers:
476,000 Regular Army personnel (2017)[4]
343,000 Army National Guard personnel (2017)
199,000 Army Reserve personnel (2017)
1,018,000 total uniformed personnel (2017)


So, Trump 1%'ers would outnumber the Entire United States Army
Oh, and LOTS of them ARE the United States Army

Glen Filthie said...

That would confirm the fix that everyone suspects. If our leaders throw him out, Stretch Pelosi, the Democrat Hag Squad, Occasional Cortex and all the cucks that enable them will go too. The soap box and ballot box will have officially failed and the time will have come for the cartridge box.

All of us should understand the progression here: you didn’t like the Tea Party and you used them for a door mat. That gave rise to the Alt Right and you did the same with them by smearing them as Nazis. They weren’t Nazis and You got Donald Trump in return for that dirty little trick.

Just wait until you see the next guy.

Bob Boyd said...

The destruction of the GOP would be the least of our problems.

Birches said...

Lowry gets it. The only reason Dems are going for impeachment is to satisfy their base and to get vulnerable purple state Senators on the record. They want Susan Collins to lose because of Kavanaugh. She might. Cory Gardner will lose no matter what happens. But he will be destroyed if he voted to convict.

tim in vermont said...

"If you only accept the outcome of elections when you get the results you want, elections are a farce.”

Even Al Gore understood that. Then somehow awesome power was placed into the hands of an unstable woman, Hillary Clinton, to accept or reject the democratic verdict of her country, and we all know what happened. We all know about batshit crazy ex wives. Hillary has lived down to the stereotype of a woman scorned.

gspencer said...

Alcee Lamar Hastings was an affirmative action judge appointed by Carter.

So bad was he that he was impeached and removed from office.

Yet he has been, since 1993, a Democrat Congressman from Florida.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The leak the lies strategy is now in Schitt's hands. So far no one has proven any Quid Pro Quo with Trump and Ukraine. But they are building a better lie machine. The corrupt Zucker press are happy to olbige. Lotta money on the line. Still holding out hope for a Hillary pay off.

Meanwhile - the real Quid Pro Quo is Joe Biden and his son.

Iman said...

Where are you left when you see an L.A. County Assistant DA - a man who has always been a staunch conservative - so twisted by his personal hatred and animosity toward Donald Trump, that he will believe the worst of the man and fall prey to the most insidious lies and propaganda spewed by the leftwing media, while disregarding the damage done to our nation’s law enforcement and institutions?

Disheartened doesn’t quite describe it.

The Bergall said...

This whole drama is sure tiresome. And they still haven't figured out what the crime is.

Howard said...

Only a small handful of Republican Congress Senate will vote with the Democrats. You cucks had your chance to go to war when you didn't enlist after high school. It's not going to happen now, but it's not against the law to dream

Unknown said...

Fallout will make the arrest of Chapito look like a day at the beach.

wendybar said...

Tick tock.....Democrats will be in Gitmo before that happens. It can't happen to a more insane group of people.....including the previous devious President.

alanc709 said...

If the Senate Republicans would vote to convict, it's scorched earth time. Take no prisoners time. Vigilante justice. When law and order ceases to exist, you can only mete out personal justice. Not sure what party would replace the Republicans, not sure if it matters. Once the Democrats get back in power, it's over for us.

gilbar said...

{sorry for all the posts}
But, this is ALL Moonshine* and pipe dreams
We're supposed to believe that there aren't 34 Republicans that have read Profiles in Courage?
We're supposed to believe that EACH of those 34 don't want to be Senator Ross?

moonshine*
noun
empty or foolish talk, ideas, etc.; nonsense.

rhhardin said...

Trump wouldn't be angry or vent his anger. These guys can't read Trump at all.

Doug said...

If that comes to pass, my wife and I have made our decision: we're leaving, although trying to decide which country to escape to is sort of a "least worst choice" kind of decision.

Try Boquete, Panama

tim in vermont said...

Look at the comments at NRO. “Do it anyway!” is pretty much the main theme. I kind of doubt that they are Republicans, but maybe they are the “life long” kind.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

James Clapper told WaPo reporter Ignatius to basically "take the kill shot on Flynn"

tim in vermont said...

I liked this comment there though

What I care about, and why I'll vote for him again -- but wouldn't vote for Pence or most other traditional Republican candidates -- is because by some act of a God I don't believe in, Donald J Trump has the ability to so incense the Left and the MSM that they cannot help but reveal their true nature in spectacularly outrageous fashions.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Before the Senate can convict, the House as a whole has to vote to impeach. And before that happens, doesn't Shifty Adam have to disclose the evidence gathered by his Intelligence Commiteee? Or will they hold a vote based on selectively leaked testimony and media spin?

Bonus Question for Leftys: Ever ask yourself why the INTELLIGENCE Committee is spearheading the impeachment inquiry, as opposed to, say, the Judiciary Committee (as in the case of Nixon) or the Foreign Relations Committee (since the alleged High Crime and/or Misdemeanor involves Ukraine)?

sunsong said...

donald WILL be impeached...and I think it's 50/50 right now whether he'll be removed.

If he is removed, Pence and Barr will also be impeached

donald will be tried for his crimes as a private citizen if he is removed [that's why he will fight dirty ..he cannot afford to leave office]

roadgeek said...

The cold civil war would begin to heat up if Trump is successfully impeached. Two other potential triggers would be the death of Li'l Ruth and Trump losing the next election by foul means, or even the perception of foul means.

Equipment Maintenance said...

The purpose of "Impeachment" is to help democrats calibrate how far they can go, how lawless they can be, without triggering an actual shooting-type civil war, which they know they would lose. This will be useful information for the 2020 campaign.

Owen said...

Prof. A: your question is demurely put (I guess to avoid complaints of incitement) but of course the answer is plain. Trump would not go quietly. Nor would his followers. Whose number would include many who voted for him (or against the alternative) and who see the wisdom of their choice confirmed by his performance (even by his stymied efforts) or by the deranged and seditious performance of his opponents.

But a post-impeachment Trump movement would IMHO also gather to it a lot of other people, disgusted by the rigged process and concerned at the damage it is doing to the country. Democracy only works if everybody plays by the same rules, and the ultimate test of that is whether the losers in an election suck up their disappointment and try their honest best to help the winners improve the commonwealth. I think we are in grave danger of the losers pulling down the whole structure. The more we learn, the deeper the damage appears to run.

wildswan said...

Lindzey Graham has all but three Republican Senators on record as condemning the impeachment process in the House. So there will not be some kind of stampede against Trump. They are aware in the Senate. The idea that a secret majority is there against Trump is just this week's narrative (lie). Desperate Billy Kristol is putting this one about. Probably people are saying to him, "yeah, Bill, it's bad" because they feel bad for him. He was a respected editor with a magazine people read. Now he's going around Congress, grabbing people and saying, "You really want to impeach Trump, secretly, really, you do, right?, am I right?, I'm right!, right?!?" "Yeah, Bill, sure Bill." Takes out little notebook - "Bill, no names!" "No, No, I know, they all say that, no names, but look I have 25, no wait, 14, no, but there's lot, it's unbelievable." "Yeah, Bill, it is." "He'll be out soon and then Mitt will lead the party and I'll get a magazine, I've had offers even from Democrats, it's amazing. Omigod! He tweeted this morning and ..." He patters off.

tim in vermont said...

"Yet he has been, since 1993, a Democrat Congressman from Florida.”

His slogan is “Tried and true.” I kid you not, I live near his district, at one time he was my congressman, it should be “Tried and convicted."

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

sungsong cheers corrupt leftwing totalitarian 3rd world dictatorship behavior by her party.

alanc709 said...

"sunsong said...
donald WILL be impeached...and I think it's 50/50 right now whether he'll be removed.

If he is removed, Pence and Barr will also be impeached

donald will be tried for his crimes as a private citizen if he is removed [that's why he will fight dirty ..he cannot afford to leave office]"

Pence and Barr? What about the rest of the Cabinet and judicial appointees? What about congressmen and senators? Why not just make it illegal to run for office as anything but a registered Democrat while you're at it? Are you really THAT stupid?

Lewis Wetzel said...

. . . from the moment they won — have had the experience of seeing their President treated like a big, horrible mistake?
From what I read and from what I hear from the liberals I talk to, they believe Trump's election was a fluke. Get rid of him and there is no downside, the Great Liberal Project just picks up where it left off.
You can be in a bubble in the US if you are a liberal. Not if you are a Republican. Even in the deepest red county in the deepest red state, conservatives are bombarded with Trump hatred every time they turn on the TV or radio, or get on Facebook. Conservatives understand this country far better than liberals do.

Mike Sylwester said...

I think there was a secret agreement between Pelosi and McConnell that the House would impeach Trump before Thanksgiving, and then the Senate would acquit Trump before Christmas. A win-win solution for both Pelosi and McConnell.

However, this impeachment process will extend far into 2020.

Pelosi and McConnell face a similar problem in each chamber.

* In the House, a small but decisive number of Democrats will resist Pelosi's plan to ram the impeachment through to a quick vote. Those Democrats will insist on a process that is deliberative and somewhat fair before the vote.

* In the Senate, a small but decisive number of Republicans likewise will resist McConnell's plan to conduct a short, sham trial. Those Republicans will insist on a thorough examination and debate of the evidence.

Those few insisters on thorough deliberation in each chamber will prevent the process from being completed before Christmas. As a consequence, the process will drag on into January, February, March and even further.

The Republican Convention is scheduled for August 2020. As the Senate's "trial" approaches August and as Trump obviously will be re-nominated, practically no Republican Senators will dare to vote to convict him.

Some Democrat Senators might join the vote to acquit Trump.

During the remaining time until the November 2020 election, Trump will proclaim that the Senate's majority-vote acquittal was an exoneration from false accusations.

Hagar said...

We are close to becoming a "banana republic."

tim in vermont said...

Imagine handing over the awesome power of the government of the United States of America to people like Sunsong.

"Show me the man, I will show you the crime!”

It’ll be great, we promise!

tim in vermont said...

"James Clapper told WaPo reporter Ignatius to basically 'take the kill shot on Flynn’"

I got a kick out of that because “basically” means that these were not his exact words, and Clapper’s defense was “I never used those words!” Which sounds more like an admission, to me.

Lewis Wetzel said...

You know, for people who think that they understand the course of history, progressives are really shitty at making predictions.

Mike Sylwester said...

The Senate's vote on the House's impeachment bill should be scheduled for November 4, 2020 -- the day after the Presidential election.

tim in vermont said...

Think of never Trumpers like this. Democrats are telling them that they want a picture of them standing before a beautiful view beyond a precipice. Democrats are holding the camera and saying, move back... just a little more, we want to get you all in the frame. move back... that’s it... move back... whooosh!

Democrats high five and go to lunch.

libertariansafetyguy said...

Yeah... the move to disarm the populous ought to have preceded impeachment. Now, we’re headed to a land of 60 million angry, well-armed citizens who believe the game is fixed and who may have no problem flipping the game table.

Jeff Brokaw said...

Another NR inside-the-beltway clown who doesn’t get it. Who could see that coming?

Ann’s take is correct, and should be blindingly obvious to anyone who is not corrupted by an obsession with party politics. Which of course rules out everyone inside the beltway.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The left will do all they can to discredit Barr. Why? The left are corrupt from top to bottom.

RoseAnne said...

So Trump must be impeached because he tried to have a rival for the 2020 election investigated? (or so "they" seem to be claiming). So what happens if it goes to the Senate for a vote? Will Sanders, Warren, Harris, Booker, Klobuchar, etc. recuse themselves from the vote to ACTUALLY remove a rival for president? What about the 4 Democratic senators who threatened Ukraine's funding in a 2018 letter?

Beasts of England said...

’If he is removed, Pence and Barr will also be impeached’

Any concrete charges to support your fascist daydreams?

tim in vermont said...

" think there was a secret agreement between Pelosi and McConnell that the House would impeach Trump before Thanksgiving, and then the Senate would acquit Trump before Christmas. “

Don’t worry mom! This will all be over by Christmas!” How many soldiers marching off to war have said that?

Seeing Red said...

Spell it out Sunsong: for what? Besides Clinton didn’t leave office and he actually did something vile.

Besides the case can be made that WArren and the other 3-4 other dem senators involved in Ukraine shouldn’t vote, so the senate is already down 4-5 votes.

The primarying alone if The Senate impeached....

ID the Dems win Colorado Loses a lot of income and jobs when fracking is killed.

Birkel said...

There would be political assassinations.
Lone wolves and such.
Impossible to stop.

I believe that firmly.

Drago said...

Hagar: "Overwrought, but Trump - though not a Republican himself - has 95% approval among the people who voted Republican in the last election."

Have you seen Trump's approval numbers amongst African Americans and hispanics?

Panic City in Stasi-Stalinist democrat-ville.

Tina Trent said...

This is all about immigration. Trump was elected because he was the only person in either primary who bucked the Dems and GOPe and dumb bunny leftitarians and Soros money and Koch money and Chamber money and said "enough illegal immigration."

Everything that has followed is a backlash against voters daring to express that view.

Everything. It's a very simple story, so simple and so taboo that we rarely even acknowledge it, even as polls prove it unambiguously true.

traditionalguy said...

The peaceful transition of power was never in Obama's final plan to destroy the Republic. He wanted to see his UN forces have their way with us under martial law. Trump's triumphant defeat of Hillary has become a restoration of the USA's military power and a flipping of the USA's Military (especially the USMC) back to the defending the people from a martial law declaration by Hillary. The question is not who will win the next election. It is who will occupy the FEMA Camps built for you and me.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

the "GOP" or Trump/America?
the GOPe/Dems are the ones destined to be smoldering ruins.
yesterday's news was just the beginning of the burgeoning avalanche.
The dirty Dems perhaps get picked off at a rate that makes for palatable optics,
and avoid the weasel-whine of "we're becoming a Banana Republic!!"

The Donkeys will be getting their Ass handed to them

tim in vermont said...

"Besides the case can be made that WArren and the other 3-4 other dem senators involved in Ukraine “

That would rule out Romney too.

tim in vermont said...

"Any concrete charges to support your fascist daydreams?”

She showed you the man, the rest is busywork.

Rusty said...

What would happen? Blood in the streets. The left has abandoned the rule of law. They have abandoned our constitutional safeguards. The usual suspects want a revolution. My best advice to them is; armor up. Your fellow citizens, that you despise, already have. And remember. You brought this on yourselves.

Bay Area Guy said...

Lowery showing a little bit of spine on impeachment, eh?

But he's still jumping the gun a bit.

First and foremost, the GOP Senators should not vote to remove, because Trump hasn't committed a "high crime or misdemeanor." The Mueller investigation revealed a Russian hoax - a blatant attempt to frame Trump on bogus charges of "colluding" with the Russians. And, now, these cocksucker Democrats have doubled-down with a "Ukranian Hoax". Unlike Watergate, there's no burglary. There's merely a phone call, and an anonymous leaker, a dishonest Schiff and a hysterical Leftwing media.

It's an embarrassment that Dems seek to negate 63 million votes - in the middle of an election -- simply because their candidates suck and can't beat him.

Browndog said...

Everything in Washington is cyclical.

I remember when republicans won the House, and Pelosi lost her Speakership. I couldn't believe she didn't retire. No way would she every be Speaker again. She knew better.

I'm betting some Senators think along the same lines.

The problem is Impeachment is not an election.

If Trump is removed it will prove that elections no longer matter. Elections are how people peacefully decide how they are to be governed.

Like they say, you won't like what comes after Trump

virgil xenophon said...

Tina Trent, above, speak Heap Big Medicine..

Darrell said...

God Bless President Trump.

holdfast said...

Sunsong is either a parody account or a perfect example of why Republicans must hang together. If he is not a parody, then he shows that the Democrats don’t care about any sort of actual underlying cause for impeachment. They simply want to use pretend the laws against all of their enemies. They want to make it illegal for a Republican to be president. If that is really their stated goal, then we might as well move to the next stage of the destruction of the Republik now. Fortunately I still believe that Nancy Pelosi is a wiser politician than that. Oh she is amoral and corrupt as hell, but I think she wants to run the United States not blow it up.

Biff said...

"If Senate Republicans vote to remove Trump on anything like the current facts, even the worst interpretation of them, it would leave the GOP a smoldering ruin."

That statement demonstrates enormous ignorance about people beyond the beltway, many of whom would have begun converging inside the beltway well before the vote. At that point, the problems of the GOP would be among the least of the nation's worries.

It would be a "lives, fortunes, and sacred honor" moment for an awful lot of people.

Lurker21 said...

Trump himself isn’t going to get convicted by the Senate and say: 'Well, I’m a little disappointed, to be honest. But it was a close call, and Mike Pence is a great guy, and I’m just grateful I had the opportunity to serve in the White House for more than three years.' He won’t go away quietly to lick his wounds. He won’t delete his Twitter account. He won’t make it easy on anyone. He will vent his anger and resentment at every opportunity. It will be 'human scum' every single day.

Richie Cunningham gets it wrong. Impeachment wouldn't be a disaster for Republicans because ex-President Trump would be muttering and sputtering and twittering all the time. Trump could go away quietly and it would still be a disaster for Republicans if Senate Republicans vote to convict without overwhelming evidence of serious and real wrongdoing. It would be a disaster for the party because they would have cut off the head of the party without having anyone or anything to replace it. I'm not saying Trump is the brains of the party, but (in spite of all the divisions in the GOP) he does help keep the thing together.

The division between pro- and anti-Trump Republicans isn't going to go away even if Trump were completely silent. If Trump is gone through impeachment without what's regarded as sufficient cause, the base is going to hate the party's elected officials for sticking the knife in him and only be ho-hum about Pence. In other words, it's not that Trump is going to be on the sidelines complaining and conspiring and attacking, rather it's that there's going to be a void in the party that nothing is going to fill for a while - and great distrust and antipathy between the base and the elected officials (and unelected satraps) of the party.

Voters, especially those inclined to vote for Republicans, don't like or trust politicians or ideologues anymore. They may not love Trump, but they aren't going to love a Republican Party that cuts off its own head. What Lowry may not understand is that the conservative brand or label isn't as shiny and attractive as it once was. More damage and division could be ruinous.

John henry said...

How about

Impeach (for what?)

Remove

Pence becomes prez

Appoints djt vp

Resigns

PDJT again

Pdjt wins in November

4 more years

Pence 2024 (even if he was a vp)

John Henry

Ralph L said...

I watched a few seconds of Judy SpewsHour last night. She seems to be working from facts not in evidence.

Paco Wové said...

"Pence ... will also be impeached"

Why? I am on tenterhooks, whatever they are, awaiting an answer.

Night Owl said...

"There would be political assassinations."

This is more likely than a civil war. Too many comfy people for a civil war. But if Trump is removed based on "orange man bad", it will not be a good time to be a politician, a media personality, or even be related to them. The comfy class will feel a little less comfy. And if some CNN liar got shot on the way to work, the attitude of many Americans would be, just as Chris Rock said about OJ, "I'm not saying it's right... But I understand."

gilbar said...

Sunsong; you're Obviously a LOT smarter than i am (gilbar said, with a straight face)...
Could you please give us a list of the 20 Republican Senators that will be voting for removal?

mockturtle said...

Sunsong--is it really advisable to be smoking weed this early in the day?

Freder Frederson said...

So even if it turns Trump has indeed committed multiple crimes, Lowry doesn't think we should impeach because it would upset people like Rusty and traditionalguy.

Greg Hlatky said...

Trump is the MacGuffin in the impeachment drive, an excuse, not a reason. What sane person thinks if he's removed that everything will return to normal and a Republican will be allowed to serve as President?

rcocean said...

There is absolute ZERO reason to remove Trump - what's happening is without precedent, the D's are trying impeach Trump in a way that is historically unheard of and was considered unacceptable in the past. And instead of getting mad at the D's - the Republican Senators are pondering how they're going to vote and to grandstand during the trial.

Anyway, when the Never-Trumpers lose a wimp like Rich Lowrey you can be sure Trump is OK. If this does go to the Senate, every R Senator who votes against Trump is a marked man and will be primaried. That's why the only ones that would vote against him are RINO"s like Murkoswki and Collins, Mittens, and senator's who are going to retire.

sunsong said...

“Trump Accuses Clinton of Deliberately Losing Election So He Could Be Impeached”
~ Borowitz

AllenS said...

Freder Frederson said...
So even if it turns Trump has indeed committed multiple crimes

IF IF IF IF IF

Bob Boyd said...

Question:
Who has retained the credibility to convince Trump's supporters he's a bad guy?

The objective experts of the media?
Prominent and highly respected leaders of the opposition party?
Prominent and highly respected leaders of the President's own party?
The selfless public servants in the federal bureaucracy?
The frigging Pope?

madAsHell said...

I think this guy spends too much time with his hands in his whitey-tightey underpants.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

What crimes?

Democrats commit actual crimes - Private SERVER while head of state dept.
Decades of quid pro quo for Hunter Bidens' bank account.

Democrats cannot name an actual Crime by Trump. So they make shit up.

madAsHell said...

Sunsong is either a parody account or a perfect example

Don't encourage the dumb fucks!!

Michael K said...


Blogger Freder Frederson said...

So even if it turns Trump has indeed committed multiple crimes,


In a minute Freder is going to explain what those crimes are, right Freder?

My suspicion is that, if even a majority of Senate Republicans vote to impeach and remove,(It takes 2/3) we will see the biggest third party in history appear. Almost instantly. It will be very dangerous because it will be a temptation for Trump. That third party would be larger than both other parties combined.

Freder Frederson said...

The Mueller investigation revealed a Russian hoax - a blatant attempt to frame Trump on bogus charges of "colluding" with the Russians.

Which version of the Mueller investigation are you reading? The version delivered to you by the monkeys flying out of your ass? Mueller found no such thing. Collusion was not a hoax. Mueller concluded there was indeed an effort to work with the Russians, but the contacts were so clumsy, and the actors so stupid, that it did not rise to the level of a conspiracy. Collusion is not a crime, conspiracy is. Mueller also refused to say if there was or was not obstruction of justice because he was not allowed to indict a sitting president.

Owen said...

Tina Trent: word. Since about 2010 I have been saying “Immigration. It’s a thing.” If we want to move into the post-national Global Elysium, without borders, then OK. Immigration becomes moot. Otherwise it is a constant question. Those who ignore it are not ignoring it, they’re enabling in secret a (lack of) process, a breakdown of order, around an essential aspect of nationality. The State must know who is who, where they are. It can’t function blindly. If the “illegals” are a trickle of well-behaved and talented folks, ready to abide by local values and contribute to the commonwealth, fine. We’re a nation of immigrants and the demographics demand lots of new blood.

But if instead there is a tsunami of the desperate, the hostile, the afflicted? We can try to manage that humanely for a while, but it is effectively a “shock front” in a flow of fluid. It enters a catastrophic state. No country, however wealthy and kind, can handle that for long.

Are we facing that? We don’t even know. I think Trump as a business guy saw an enterprise that had no control over a key process. Not even possessed of the data to CHARACTERIZE the process: funny thing, “illegals” don’t self-report their status. We seem to be left with SWAG-level estimates of how many such people are here, where they are, what they need, what they intend.

Trump is IMHO not a xenophobe but a guy who wants to fix a broken system.

That makes him hated by a lot of people who like a broken system.

jaydub said...

I thought Inga was banned. Why is she being allowed to reincarnate as Sunsong and return to her previous practice of shitting on this blog?

Birkel said...

Not content to lie about the Buddy case, Freder Frederson now lies about the Mueller Report.

HINT: We, the commenters here, are able to read.

mockturtle said...

The 'deplorable' toothpaste is out of the tube. Whether or not Trump is impeached and/or removed, there's no going back. We have been encouraged and empowered.

Birches said...

I used to think sunsong wasn't living in an alternate universe...

Beasts of England said...

’Mueller found no such thing. Collusion was not a hoax. Mueller concluded there was indeed an effort to work with the Russian...’

If Mueller had found anything at all then the Dems would be impeaching Trump for those crimes, yet they are not. Because there was nada, the left is trying to secretly manufacture a Ukraine ‘crime’ to keep their impeachment fantasy alive.

Phil 314 said...

Just read the comments here. We (a sizable chunk of America) still love the outrage and anger. Were commenters here any less angry at the left when Trump was doing well as when he was not. Or for that matter when Obama was in office. And Fox and NBC and CNN will continue to run the chyrons and hold the pundit panels to feed the outrage (“Hey its good for business!”)

We’re still a long way away from a desire to “return to normalcy”. And assuming the Barr investigation produce some serious indictments both left and right will in full pitched battle well beyond 2020.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

The unstated assumption here is that President Pence won’t be able to unify Republicans after Trump is kicked out of office. I think though that the evangelicals will like Pence even better than Trump. If Pence plays it right, he channels the anger of the deplorables into a 2020 win. One way to do that would be getting a primary challenge from one of the human stains. The question then is whether he can win the general on something like, “I did not think impeachment was warranted but I must accept the verdict of the Senate, and I will build on the Trump economy and trade policy.”

tim in vermont said...

"Which version of the Mueller investigation are you reading? “

Hey Freder, when are you going to admit that the Ukraine interfered more in the electiton on behalf of Hillary than anything that came out of Russia for Trump, which as far as proven stuff, not accusations from Democrat campaigns, is zero?

In fact the Russians gave Hillary fake dirt on Trump.

M Jordan said...

Though I think Lowry misses some key aspects of Trump the man, he is correct in his assessment: Trump will not, can not, be removed. Even Dems know that. This is not their strategy. Their strategy is to raise dust, impugn by indirect means, and hopefully get 270 EV’s in 2020.

Trust me, friends. No one wants Trump removed through impeachment.

tim in vermont said...

"So even if it turns Trump has indeed committed multiple crimes, Lowry doesn't think we should impeach because it would upset people like Rusty and traditionalguy.”

Reading comprehension not your strong suit, I see.

"The unstated assumption here is that President Pence won’t be able to unify Republicans after Trump is kicked out of office.”

Thank you for your concern.

AndyN said...

This is the oath every member of the US armed forces swears upon enlistment:

I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

The oath sworn by commissioned officers is similar. They don't swear to support and defend the government, or a faction of the government, they swear to support the Constitution - the foundation of all our laws, that which makes us a nation of laws.

The Constitution allows for Congress to impeach the President for treason, bribery or other high crimes or misdemeanors. No credible accusations of treason, bribery or high crimes or misdemeanors have been made against the President. If the President is impeached and convicted based on nothing more than the current allegations against him, it will be done in contravention of the Constitution.

I doubt that the Senate will convict based on current allegations. If they do, we'll be in completely unprecedented territory, and nobody has any frame of reference for how to actually go about removing the President from office after he's convicted. How do we know that a conviction by the Senate wouldn't be Trump's Jacksonian "Adam Schiff has made his decision, now let him enforce it" moment? How many divisions do the House and Senate command?

tim in vermont said...

"Mueller concluded there was indeed an effort to work with the Russian...”

Really? Mfsud has been shown to be a plant by the CIA. The dotard Mueller had him as a Russian agent. Mueller accepted Crowdstrike’s, a private firm, BTW, redacted report on the “Hack” as evidence when law enforcement never even looked at the server.

The Mueller Report is the biggest clusterfuck since New Coke.

hombre said...

I never get tired of saying: Trump supporters don’t vote for Democrats because in addition to being loony and godless, the evidence is in, they are corrupt. We only suspect Republicans are corrupt.

So far it is clear Trump has committed no impeachable offense. A vote by Republicans resulting in conviction will be a vote to disenfranchise us to protect the swamp. Why vote for any members of a party that chooses that course of action? They will no longer be the lesser of two evil.

What is at stake here, among other things, is the two party system. Trump has accelerated the final confrontation.

Birkel said...

In which Left Bank tells people what those self-same people think.
Fun game.

tim in vermont said...

"In a minute Freder is going to explain what those crimes are, right Freder?”

Just after he explains how this article based on leaks from Ukrainian intelligence files a couple months prior to the election is not election interference coming out the Ukraine/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/15/us/politics/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html

The interference came after the Obama administration met with the Ukrainians and asked for dirt on Manafort and Trump.

So Freder can explain why Trump is not allowed to look into that as a matter of national interest, and why his lawyer is not allowed to gather exculpatory evidence from the source of that election interference.

He can do that right after he explains why it was OK for the Democrats to go after Trump based on the word of foreign spies, some of whom worked for Putin, who were orgainized by Hillary’s lawyer.

I am sure Freder can explain all of that. “Bad messaging”?

tim in vermont said...

"Trust me, friends. No one wants Trump removed through impeachment.”

Pelosi’s majority depends on the voters in 30 Trump districts, which is why there is no vote. This is just nonstop smears from proven liar Schiff and his enablers at MSNBC and CNN.

wild chicken said...

"Luridly telegenic." Heheh.
He's got that right. And that's why they hate him, and why they hated Palin.

Sebastian said...

"how will this affect the millions of people who thought they won the election and then saw their victory taken away?"

You don't have to speculate, you know -- you can just ask us. And I believe we told you.

And Never-Trumper Rich L is a little late, but better later than never.

narciso said...

so much is made that some of guiliani's helpers worked for firtash at some point, well then indict kristol kingpin Chertoff and lanny davis, because they were his attys of record, in the extradition case, badly handled by lisa page,

AndyN said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tim in vermont said...

The Republicans may well privately want to get rid of Trump, as Romney says, Romney whose son is on the board of Burisma, BTW, but we live in a democracy, no matter how hard the ruling class chokes on that one.

tim in vermont said...

Brennen and Clapper thought they were J. Edgar Hoover. Kingmakers and king breakers. I still can’t believe that rank and file Democrats are OK with the CIA acting like this.

Not to mention ginning up a war fever against Russia to the point of wanting a shooting proxy war against a nation that has been a Russian client since the ‘70s. Syria.

I uderstand the leadership wanting this, especially with Hillary involved, but why does the rank and file go along?

Ken B said...

I love the way Lowry imagines Trump as the bad guy in this scenario. I guess Dubček was the bad guy at National Review these days ...

Ken B said...

This time I agree with Birkel. Assassinations. And that just as a start.

narciso said...

no not his son, but his foreign policy, guru, cofer black, burisma, reminds of the malevolent lobbying shop, in the firm update, the 500 (the title refers to the most influential 500 people in Washington) the founder was a former Nixon staffer with a literally murderous secret, he keeps directors of various agencies on his board, he lobbies for among other things Serbian war criminals, the tom cruise manqué, who has a checkered past, uncovers the founders plot among others,

so hunter is tied to the Truman project witch is a group of ex and future Obama administration officials, and at least one presidential candidate,

Francisco D said...

Before the Senate can convict, the House as a whole has to vote to impeach. And before that happens, doesn't Shifty Adam have to disclose the evidence gathered by his Intelligence Commiteee? Or will they hold a vote based on selectively leaked testimony and media spin?

The whole point of the Schiff Star Chamber is to selectively leak and spin info that will move public opinion towards impeachment.

It is also meant as a distraction that the Loyal Dem media will use when Obama's flunkies are indicted by Barr and Durham's work.

narciso said...

that would be mayor buttigeg, you see why the press is staying away from this, it doesn't have to be notorious, it's just consensus of interests,

Sam L. said...

Ah, the TRUMP PARTY! Serve the GOP the poison pills sent in by "the deplorables", and GO FOR IT. I don't trust the GOP, anyway.

narciso said...

I try to be as precise as possible, just like with john herbst, who is an atlantic council board member with burisma ties, unacknowledged by cnn,

Michael K said...

One thing this whole "Resistance" thing is doing.

It will bring about The Convention of States.

One argument against it has been that it could lead to unanticipated developments. There are no such developments that would be worse than this cold war on the Constitution.

Explained here although it is Wiki.

While there have been calls for an "Article V Convention" based on a single issue such as the balanced budget amendment, it is not clear whether a convention summoned in this way would be legally bound to limit discussion to a single issue; law professor Michael Stokes Paulsen has suggested that such a convention would have the "power to propose anything it sees fit",[2] whereas law professor Michael Rappaport[3] and attorney-at-law Robert Kelly[4] believe that a limited convention is possible.

There is nothing worse than what is going on now.

Drago said...

Hot off his previous 14,000 some odd failed "hot takes", Left Bank forges ahead with even more laughably obtuse assessments and prognostications!!

It just keeps getting better and better.

Michael K said...

Mueller concluded there was indeed an effort to work with the Russians, but the contacts were so clumsy, and the actors so stupid,

Not Mueller who was a figurehead for Weissmann, but Hillary and the DNC were definitely in collusion with the FSB to concoct the "Dossier."

Freder, you are such a fool.

Drago said...

Field Marshall Freder: "Mueller concluded there was indeed an effort to work with the Russians, but the contacts were so clumsy, and the actors so stupid, that it did not rise to the level of a conspiracy."

LOLOLOL

its the Bundy case all over again for Freder!!

Too funny.

Tell us all about Mifsud and Halper genius boy. Who were they working for?

Hint: His initials are "Brennan".

Hope that helps!

hombre said...

“It is also meant as a distraction that the Loyal Dem media will use when Obama's flunkies are indicted by Barr and Durham's work.” (10:43)

Score on the probability meter: 95%!

Yancey Ward said...

Lots of good comments, but I want to highlight the following one because it touches on something I addressed in a thread:

Bob Boyd asked:

"Who has retained the credibility to convince Trump's supporters he's a bad guy?"

This is the real problem the Democrats have, and I don't think they really understand it yet. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and NBC can bleat on and on all day long, but it won't move the needle any longer. All of these mediaswine were wrong about the Russia Hoax- not just a little wrong, but completely wrong. The media have cashed out all of their credibility with everyone not a hard core Democrat. No one is going to be convinced by Pelosi or Adam Schiff that Trump should be convicted. No one is going to be convinced by Delicious Dick Romney.

Here is the hard math for the Republicans in the Senate- they defend 23 seats next year, the Democrats defend 12. Only one seat in the Democrat caucus is even winnable after an impeachment and conviction (Alabama). The Republicans would lose 7 seats for certain, and could easily lose another 5-7 based on whether or not the Senator running had voted for impeachment personally.

hombre said...

Blogger Left Bank of the Charles said...

“The unstated assumption here is that President Pence won’t be able to unify Republicans after Trump is kicked out of office. I think though that the evangelicals will like Pence even better than Trump.”

This is how lefties think. Everything is political gain. There is no concept of morals, integrity, betrayal, loyalty.

You are dead wrong here, lefty. First, Trump supporters are not all “Republicans” and those who are, unlike Democrats, do not carry it like a brain-rotting infection. Conviction based on Rep. Schitt’s sideshow would be a betrayal of Trump voters and the country. As an evangelical, I am pleased to see an apparently solid Christian as VP. However, Trump got my vote because he is an outlier, Pence is not.

Evangelicals prefer politicians who protect our First Amendment rights. We do not need politicians to otherwise further our cause. God will handle that in due time. Right now He is winnowing.

bagoh20 said...

The cat is out of the bag. Whether Trump is removed or not, the people are not going back to trusting either the media or the political class. Removing Trump would not give the democrats a victory, it would just show how corrupt they are, and as long as we remain a democracy they will need to be trusted to be elected. Which is why they hate the Second Amendment. It is the only real guarantee of any of our laws and principles. Everything can be taken if you cannot fight.

Bruce Hayden said...

Freder:
“Mueller also refused to say if there was or was not obstruction of justice because he was not allowed to indict a sitting president.”

Nope. Not even close.

The Mueller definition of Obstruction of Justice was a classic Lawfare intentional statutory misinterpretation, that took parts of one Obstruction statute out of context, violated centuries old rules of statutory construction, has never been tried or accepted by a single court of law, and was specifically rejected by AG Barr, DAG Rosenstein, and, probably most importantly, the DOJ OLC. The Mueller prosecutors were bound by rules and regulations to follow official DOJ statutory interpretations. They did not. Their Lawfare interpretation essentially changed the required mens rea from specific intent to general intent. Thus, for example, the firing of Comey was for cause - his lying to the President. This was, thus, not Obstruction under the official DOJ interpretation of that Obstruction statute, since Trump’s stated purpose for the firing was Comey having lied to him. That means that he did not have the required specific intent. But under the Mueller/Lawfare statutory misinterpretation, there was Obstruction because the firing interferes with a criminal investigation (of Trump’s Russian collusion, that Comey had lied and falsely claimed that Trump was not being investigated for), and the firing had been intentional (general intent).

So, what happened was that when Mueller met with AG Barr and DAG Rosenstein, he was first asked about the status of the Collusion investigation. Mueller indicated that it had been completed for better than a year. Asked WTF were they doing then, he responded that his prosecutors were looking into Obstruction of Justice, a process crime. Asked for examples, Mueller listed the examples that ended up in his Report. AG Barr, DAG Rosenstein, and DOJ attorneys looked at those examples, and found that none of the examples rose anywhere close to the required level of Obstruction (because they all lacked the required specific intent). After that, Mueller had no excuse to keep his investigation open.

So,why did Mueller put those examples in his final Report, while refusing to determine whether or not they constituted Obstruction of Justice? Because he, and his prosecutors, were bound by DOJ rules to accept and utilize DOJ adopted statutory interpretations, and by that point, there was an official DOJ interpretation (that required specific, and not just general, intent). If the Mueller Report had determined, under the Mueller/Lawfare statutory misinterpretation of that Obstruction statute, that there had been Obstruction, they would have been order to do it over again, this time conforming to DOJ rules and utilizing the official DOJ statutory interpretation of that statute (which would have also forbidden the inclusion of the possible Obstruction fact patterns). This was avoided by their presentation of the facts that they believed constituted Obstruction (but didn’t), and then their refusal to determine one way or the other whether there had been Obstruction by President Trump. This was the only way that they could get their dirt that they argued constituted Obstruction into the Mueller Report.

As for their pretext that they didn’t determine that Trump had Obstructed Justice because Trump couldn’t be indicted, that was adequately torpedoed BY AG Barr, at the time, who had pointed out to them that that DOJ rule did not forbid showing that the President had committed criminal acts, but rather just that he couldn’t be indicted for them until he left office. Of course, the Mueller prosecutors included these fact patterns in their Report, because that was the only way to get them legally to the House committees for use in impeachment, which was one of the primary reasons for the Mueller investigation in the first place.

bagoh20 said...

"Who has retained the credibility to convince Trump's supporters he's a bad guy?"

Trump supporters above most people are not going to accept appeals to authority. The entire Trump phenomenon is a rejection of exactly that.

It will need to start with a high crime or misdemeanor,and then convince them that all the good results are worth throwing away for something that any other President would and has gotten away with, while convincing them it is not all just a political power grab. Nobody can do any of that.

The much more important question is: is there anyone who can convince the left that their leaders really have done terrible things that threaten us all, and that such exercises of power are wrong even when they help your side win.

Jim at said...

What some people still don't get is why we have Trump.

Whether he goes away or not, wins or loses or whatever ... the people that elected him aren't going anywhere.

Jim at said...

So even if it turns Trump has indeed committed multiple crimes...

Why don't you start out by just naming one.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"...[that's why he will fight dirty ..he cannot afford to leave office]"

So we agree he's a good guy in difficult circumstances both you and I can plausibly place ourselves in?

Good good dear, your progress is splendid and a wonder to relate, in and of itself. We all are expecting great things from you in the future, comment-wise.

Birkel said...

Bruce Hayden,
All correct but Freder came here to lie and chew bubble gum. And he's all out of bubble gum.

Michael K said...

Bruce, I think it is a waste of time to explain law to Freder who understands it about as well as he understands military strategy.

I would really be interested to read, as we could once do, reasoned arguments from the left about issues they care about. I followed Kevin Drum from blog to blog because he was an honest leftist. In 2004, before the election, such leftist reasoning vanished.
I have yet to see any evidence of a return.

Tulsi Gabbard seems as close as we will get and she doe not really defend Socialism as a viable economic system.

tim in vermont said...

""Who has retained the credibility to convince Trump's supporters he's a bad guy?"

Anybody who can point to original sources, complete with full context, of an actual crime, without relying on obvious omissions, could probably do it, if such a case actually existed, which based on the tactics of the Democrats, I strongly doubt.

tim in vermont said...

My favorite part of Mueller’s testimony was when he admitted that it was run “day to day” by Hillary’s lawyer, Mr “BleachBit and hammers” is the way to respond to a Congressional order to preserve evidence.

Bruce Hayden said...

Two interrelated things going on, resulting in two movies.

On the one hand, the investigation into SpyGate has just gone hot. IG Horowitz should be dropping his FISA abuse in. The next week or two, with supposedly almost no redactions. A telephone book sized indictment of Deep State misdoings. Meanwhile, fresh from a trip to Europe, and esp Italy, with AG Barr, USA Durham just announced that his investigation is now criminal in nature. I think that it is highly likely that they returned with evidence that Maltese professor Joseph Misfyp was a western, not Russian, intelligence asset, who worked with other western intelligence assets Alexander Downer, Stefen Halper, etc, to develop the legal predicate and justification for the Russian collusion investigation hoax.This started in late spring of 2016, likely at least partially in response to the Obama Administration getting caught illegally using FISA 702 searching of NSA databases to investigate and surveil political opponents. This collapses the entire Russian Collusion narrative, exposing it as an extraordinarily egregious example of misuse of government power by the Obama Administration and their sympathizers in the Deep State. Because the IC provided the legal predicate for the FBI/DOJ Russian Collusion hoax, they are probably in more legal trouble than the CIA even was after the 1970s Church investigation. This was run by DNI Clapper and CIA Dir Brennan, working closely with FBI Dir Comey and esp DDir McCabe. I don’t see right now how any of them, except maybe Comey, escape indictment, likely, I expect, spring or summer of 2020. Probably should throw in DAG Sally Yates, who enabled the FISA abuse, and certified at least the first FISA warrant against Carter Page (based, in part, on the lie about the role of Misfyp). We are mostly talking Obama Administration political appointees here (all except McCabe, who, as DDir, was one of a small handful of career employees above SES grade).

On a more humorous note, Gen Flynn’s attorney, Sydney Powell is currently running around, throwing dynamite, blowing up the reputation of the Mueller investigation, with the reputation of the FBI being left in tatters. Yesterday, we found out that Flynn’s lead FBI interviewer Peter Strzok’s lover, McCabe’s attorney, Lisa Page, helped him revise his 302 interview notes, and those changes were critical in showing Flynn supposedly lying to the FBI. It appears that at least 2 of the 4 supposed instances of Flynn lying to the FBI were added weeks later through these revisions. The AUSA initially only provided a highly redacted McCabe approved, 302, under threat of contempt by the judge. Powell has gradually dragged out earlier and earlier copies, that now show heavy massaging, but the AUSA is pretending that the original versions have been lost. Powell pointed out that they are either lying, or those copies were intentionally deleted, since there is an FBI wide computer system whose sole purpose appears to be tracking all the changes and revisions to 302 interview notes. Meanwhile, the AUSA continues to claim that they long ago satisfied their Brady duties. Not going to fly with this judge after Powell has shown that the original 302s provided Flynn had been conveniently modified to be far more incriminating, many weeks after the interview (FBI rules require 302s to be filed w/I 5 days, and are never reviewed by the DDir, as these were, before actual filing). Powell also pounds on the fact that the purpose of the interview was to catch Flynn in the perjury trap, that they did, since they knew what the transcripts said, and Flynn did not. Their interview of Flynn thus had no legitimate investigatory purpose. It was clearly a setup, by DDir McCabe, with likely approval of Dir Comey, but intentionally without DOJ notice or approval (it was questioned after the fact by DAG Yates, which, given her apparent culpability in SpyGate, is significant).

Bruce Hayden said...

We are starting to see the mice fleeing the sinking ship. Baker is rumored to have flipped already, and is supposedly cooperating with Horowitz and Durham. I expect that Lisa Page will follow suit at some point - she apparently still has kids at home, and Horowitz worked with her before to get her old boss McCabe fired. Clapper, Brennan, and Comey are pointing fingers at each other. Etc. but these things take time to work up the ladder, as lower levels are flipped, which is why I don’t expect high level indictments until next spring or summer.

Meanwhile the impeachment train is rolling merrily along. Originally, I think that impeachment was the endgame of the Insurance Policy developed by McCabe, Strzok, and Page around his $70k conference room table. The intermediate step having been the SC (Mueller) investigation. They had a mountain of quasi legally and illegally obtained information and evidence that they wanted to legally get to the Dems in Congress (no doubt Schiff and probably Wadler in the House and probably Warner in the Senate already have it - they just don’t have it legally, and the provenance would be questioned if they ever tried to use it. The express confirmation of AG Barr early this year likely prevented the planned transfer from the Mueller investigators. Some of this information includes the electronic surveillance of the Trump campaign, transition,and early White House, gathered pursuant at least to the four FISA warrants on Carter Page (the last illegal, since it was for the benefit of the Mueller SC investigation, and not the FBI Nat Sec Branch).

The Trump Administration invoked Executive Privilege to prevent that transfer. They also asserted Grand Jury privacy (one of the problems faced by the Schiff impeachment inquiry is that they don’t actually have any subpoena power, since their A1S1 Oversight Power doesn’t extend to the White House, and their A1S2 impeachment power has not been formally invoked by a vote of the House). The Mueller investigation had a Grand Jury that did have subpoena power, and an Obama appointed judge yesterday ordered that the House Dems be given much of the Grand Jury information. But, that isn’t going to happen any time soon, if ever. The DOJ will, almost assuredly, appeal this to the DC Circuit, which is more likely than not going to reject this Obama judge. And even more likely,would be rejected by the Republican dominated Supreme Court. This is not getting done this year.

Bruce Hayden said...

One interesting aspect here is that the Dems seemingly are trying to prevent the investigation of SpyGate and indictment of its participants because Trump is under investigation for Impeachment. They are similarly trying to prevent investigations of the Bidens for similar reasons, and that Slo Joe is running for President what is hilarious there is that they very much seem to be claiming that a quid pro quo by Joe Biden to keep his son out of prison is just fine, despite his holding back US money, but quid pro quo with a foreign leader by the US President is somehow illegal, despite it having been practiced by very likely every one of Trump’s 44 predecessors.

The impeachment timing is going to be interesting. I think that the SpyGate investigation going hot last week is going to push the Dems to try to impeach Trump this year. But they don’t have any actual High Crimes or Misdemeanors to impeach him over. All that they have, really, are some Deep State former NSC and CIA staffers who don’t agree with how President Trump conducts foreign policy. Schiff can interview them to his heart’s content in his downstairs star chamber. But that isn’t going to get them a Senate trial without an official House vote, and they still have to problem of a lot of Trump district Dems in the House who need the cover of real High Crimes and Misdemeanors in order to vote for impeachment, with any chance of hanging onto their seats in this coming election. Without that House vote, the Republican controlled Senate is likely to just laugh at any supposed bill of impeachment sent up to them.

The window for impeachment is quickly closing for the House. Too late, and the Dems risk a Senate trial during their nomination process and convention. A Senate trial that gives both the majority Republicans and the President the power to call witnesses, including all of the butt hurt NSC and CIA people currently testifying for Schiff. Including all the ones trying to stay anonymous, like Schiff’s first “whistleblower”. It wouldn’t be pretty, as it exposed the skulduggery of Schiff and the Democrats.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Great, informative comments, Bruce, Thanks.

mockturtle said...

Wow, Bruce! Just wow!

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Nadler=Wadler. Lol.

gerry said...

What will become of House Reps who vote for impeachment, in the election following the vote for impeachment?