August 5, 2019

"The Media has a big responsibility to life and safety in our Country. Fake News has contributed greatly to the anger and rage that has built up over many years."

"News coverage has got to start being fair, balanced and unbiased, or these terrible problems will only get worse!"

Tweets Donald Trump this morning.

He also has this:
We cannot let those killed in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, die in vain. Likewise for those so seriously wounded. We can never forget them, and those many who came before them. Republicans and Democrats must come together and get strong background checks, perhaps marrying this legislation with desperately needed immigration reform. We must have something good, if not GREAT, come out of these two tragic events!
I'm reading his tweets this morning because I see the NYT has a headline "Trump Condemns White Supremacy but Doesn’t Propose Gun Laws After Shootings." I guess he condemned white supremacy somewhere other than on Twitter. Let me read this NYT thing:
“In one voice our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy,” Mr. Trump said....

He warned of “the perils of the internet and social media” with no acknowledgment of his use of those platforms to promote his brand of divisive politics.

It remained unclear whether Mr. Trump’s 10-minute remarks....
Let's find the video. Here:



ADDED: Trump's main proposal is to develop methods of detecting mass murderers before they act. The idea is then to prevent them from buying guns and to provide mental health treatment and, in some cases, involuntary confinement.

ALSO: Trump read the speech stiffly and with some awkwardness. I think that's his style when he needs to be serious, but to some it may sound as though he's feeling forced. He seemed short of breath, as if he was tired, but he didn't look tired. There was a lot of talk about the need for bipartisanship, but I don't have any hope that the mass killings of the past weekend will lead to any new bipartisanship.

On the subject of white supremacy, mental illness, and detecting murder before it happens, I wonder if there is any expert opinion about where the white supremacy arises in the process. Do mentally ill people get drawn into the delusions and distortions of white supremacy as they move forward toward acting out murderously or is the white supremacy there at the outset, drawing the future murderer into insanity? Are there white supremacists in the United States who are not mentally ill? I guess that depends in part on how you define white supremacy. But if you use a narrow definition... aren't they all mentally ill? Is it perhaps a way for the mentally ill to exacerbate existing illness and feel reinforced and dedicated and to lose track of right and wrong?

377 comments:

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Kevin said...

“In one voice our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy,” Mr. Trump said....

I'm sure CNN and MSNBC are analyzing the video for underlying smirks of white privilege and dog whistles.

By the end of the day we'll hear, "That's exactly what a racist, bigoted, white supremacist would say!"

chuck said...

The media and Democrats have been pushing hate full time since Trump was elected. All to gain political power. The moral corruption of the Democratic Party is why I swore off voting for them, and that was already 18 years ago.

Kevin said...

It remained unclear whether Mr. Trump’s 10-minute remarks....

Don Lemon and Rachel Maddow will clear it up for us before bedtime.

Doubt is not their stock-in-trade.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

He warned of “the perils of the internet and social media” with no acknowledgment of his use of those platforms to promote his brand of divisive politics.

Remember when opinions belonged on the editorial page?

Pepperidge Farms remembers!

Expat(ish) said...

I must have missed this style of news reporting when i was a kid reading every newspaper i could get my hands on. Back when that was the only way to get the news. They used to save the daily WaPo for me at the library branch near my home - I'd pickup five papers on Friday. I had read a LOT of newspapers by the time I was in my 30's.

I guess I was a boiled frog because it wasn't until just after 911 that I noticed the paper reporting diverging from a separation of fact/opinion into a smoothie sort of consumable.

-XC

PS - I personally find Trump less divisive than Obama, but I don't find either in the David Duke / Louis Farrakhan school. Heck, not even in the Mike Huckabee / Nancy Pelosi camp.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Hacks on the left respond in unison: "We hate you Trump and we hate Fox News."
"The walls are closing in."

Dave Begley said...

Federal laws won't stop these killings. More laws won't even make they more difficult. Why would anyone think that? Criminals, by definition, don't obey the law.

Trump could suspend the Second Amendment and the NYT wouldn't be happy.

I watched Jake Tapper and Chuck Todd on Sunday. Unhinged with Trump hatred.

And is it wrong to mention the number of Americans killed in Chicago and Baltimore by gun violence? Maybe Trump should declare martial law in those cities and send in US troops to restore order. Seriously. Why aren't Chuck and Jake upset about black-on-black gun violence in Chicago and Baltimore? Are they racists?

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"He warned of “the perils of the internet and social media” with no acknowledgment of his use of those platforms to promote his brand of divisive politics."

They don't get out much, do they?

Darrell said...

We already have hundreds of laws that cover these situations. Anyone that proposes new laws in a knee-jerk fashion should be banned from holding public office.

narciso said...

Well I didnt do that, if you already know the notes and the lyrics why bother

gilbar said...

Darrell points out, that...
We already have hundreds of laws that cover these situations


CLEARLY, what We NEED, is a law that makes it illegal to break the law; this will fix Everything!

Kevin said...

"He warned of “the perils of the internet and social media” with no acknowledgment of his use of those platforms to promote his brand of divisive politics."

The media reported on Trump’s warning of “the perils of the internet and social media” with no acknowledgment of their use of those platforms to promote their own brand of divisive politics.

rcocean said...

I like the idea of linking Immigration law reform and border security to background checks. Let the D's vote down gun control because of their love of illegal aliens.

All this other stuff is nonsense. Trump attacks racism/bigotry for 1000th time. Democrats and MSM ignore it and call Trump a Racist/Bigot for the 1000th time. Leftist use the shooting to censor and gain control of the internet and pass more "Hate Crime" legislation. They never miss an opportunity. Same ol, same ol. All these shooters have mental illness problems. that's the real problem. Don't sell cray people guns!

Browndog said...

Notice that everybody has to spend all their time and energy trying to defend themselves from relentless liberal initiated attacks.

These shootings had nothing to do with race, yet Trump was compelled to condemn "white supremacy". This battle is lost. AOC now sets the political narrative.

Shouting Thomas said...

God bless you, Prez Trump!

Three and a half years ago, when I refused to knuckle under to racism hysterics, I was universally condemned.

Now, all but the looniest know that the racism huckstering is nothing but a scam. It’s all greed and lies.

Prez Trump is mostly responsible for this. I’m surprised and gratified by his moral leadership.

Althouse, we need another 5 years of this.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

These mass-shootings help the left.

Clues.

rcocean said...

All the MSM and D Politicians are bringing up charlottsville and calling Trump a white nationalist and racist. They're full of hate and blaming Trump - and the 46% who voted for him - for the shootings. They never stop with the hate and insults.

As Trump says they are creating a Fake News atmosphere that is driving nuts to violence. Will they stop? Of course not. The MSM and D's don't care. What's a few bodies if they gain power?

rcocean said...

Somehow the Guy who shot 6 Republican congressman wasn't a hater. Remember him? He was just a nut. Lets not talk about him. Lets talk about Trump white nationalist - for the 1,000th time.

narciso said...

Well hes a bit sentimental for all his gruff exterior, he didnt have any knee jerk reaction on guns which was what they wanted.

rcocean said...

Everyone one of these meaningless cliches about "I oppose racism and bigotry" forced out of Trump just proves to everyone that the D's are using this as political weapon and don't really care about the issue.

Bay Area Guy said...

In 2016, I recall that BLM snipers (or those associated with BLM) murdered 5 Dallas cops.

In 2017, I recall James Hodgkinson shot several GOP Congressmen playing softball, and almost killed Congressman Scalise.

In both instances, the Left screams, "Isolated Incident," and we are not supposed to attribute this to a greater force.

Alas, when wacko 21-year white murderer goes off in El Paso, of course, the Left tries to blame Trump, the NRA, and White Nationalism in general.

Probably, it would be good if folks toned this all down a few notches.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The shooter in Ohio - is he a leftwing nut job?
MSM not interested.

rhhardin said...

Erving Goffman's _Asylums_ is a fine read. One of the few sociologists with insights.

From back when there was involuntary confinement. Surprise, the institutions and institutionalized come to a working arrangement that doesn't exactly follow the mission statement.

Ray - SoCal said...

Trump is being Presidential, offering a solution he knows the Resistance will never agree to, for they are united in giving him no victory.

And Trump just highlights their over reaction...

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

The media fomented hysteria. Trump never advocated shooting random Mexicans to keep their numbers down. He bears as much responsibility for the El Paso shooting as Warren and Sanders bear for the Dayton shooting.

rhhardin said...

It was an awful speech, of Trump's. I assume he's throwing sand in some beloved dem meme. But the proposals were thoughless.

Rick said...

He warned of “the perils of the internet and social media” with no acknowledgment of his use of those platforms to promote his brand of divisive politics.

It seems notable that dismissing opinions and ideas because they come from whites or males seems divisive but no left media entity has ever described it that way. In the media principles only apply to non-left figures.

henry said...

All those "White Privilege" conferences at UW had nothing to do with this. No racism by the sponsors of that. No way. /sarc

sykes.1 said...

We're going to have to change the laws on involuntary treatment and hospitalization for the mentally ill. As a side benefit, such a change would largely eliminate the homeless population, providing them shelter and care they refuse to access on their own.

Paul Kersey notes that in the last two to three weeks there have been 36 mass shootings. Thirty-four of them were done by ghetto blacks against other ghetto blacks. Of course, black on black crime doesn't matter. Black lives don't matter.

Vox Day is citing someone (Schlichter?) who pointed out that during the same period as the Texas and Ohio shootings over 500 people died from doctor negligence, 300 to the flu, 250 to suicide, 200 to car accidents, and 40 murdered by handgun.

rhhardin said...

It sounds like Trump wants mob action against violence.

rhhardin said...

Mass shootings are ratings winners, is the lesson.

Kevin said...

CLEARLY, what We NEED, is a law that makes it illegal to break the law; this will fix Everything!.

The call for greater background checks acknowledges that the person, not the gun, is the problem.

The question then becomes, if you can't own a gun what else shouldn't you be allowed to do?

Because you can kill just as many people by running over them with your car.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The media and the Steven Colbert contingent are all in the business of making sure everyone hates Trump.

Leland said...

One day I'll understand the mindset that A person commits crime at X location and therefore B people at Y locations need to have their freedoms restricted. Usually, we find out later that A person was known by local authorities that decided not to act, meaning laws were in place but not enforced.

On the topic, I condemn all forms of racial supremacy. You can say I'm anti poly supremacy and therefore ethical.

Michael K said...

All the MSM and D Politicians are bringing up charlottsville and calling Trump a white nationalist and racist. They're full of hate and blaming Trump - and the 46% who voted for him - for the shootings. They never stop with the hate and insults.

Mentally ill will focus on messages that support their paranoia. Don't get into their delusions with paranoid schizophrenics.

These men seem to be in some form of mental illness. We abrogated our national role in mental illness in the 60s. The streets of LA and San Francisco are evidence of the failure. When I worked in the VA psych hospital in 1959, the TV room was always full and the staff told me the patients were convinced they were getting instructions from the TV. Now, we have the internet and facebook for crazies who can afford computers. Same thing.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Only one of the two was a white supremacist. Why are we not talking just as much about where the leftist killers and antifates get their hatred? And can we be honest and identify that antifa poses far a far greater danger to our society than the white supremacists do?

Anonymous said...

Browndog: These shootings had nothing to do with race, yet Trump was compelled to condemn "white supremacy". This battle is lost.

He wasn't compelled to do so. I'd say conceding to the "white supremacy" crazy bullshit was a simple straightforward fuck-up. Nothing was compelling him to do so.

This battle is lost. AOC now sets the political narrative.

Dooooooooomed! We're dooooooooomed! Trump had a rhetorical fail! There is no hope! Stop fighting! This proves the forces of good are no match for dingbat progs!

Nil desperandum, bro.

Wince said...

By condemning white supremacy, rather than the entire belief system of racial supremacy and racial hatred, isn't that feeding the argument of white supremacists that "whites" are being singled out for particular opprobrium if not oppression?

The less divisive path is to welcome the greater swath of susceptible people back from the extremes, not to push more of them further out.

madAsHell said...

What else sells?

rhhardin said...

Better read Derbyshire on what gets called white supremacy. Almost all of it is benign.

https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/RadioDerb/2016-12-02.html#05

Having read it, you'll notice that nobody talking about white supremacy has the foggiest idea about what they're talking about.

Winnie said...

I don't know if Antifa poses a greater danger to our society but I agree if we are going to 'have a conversation' about radical fringe groups Antifa should be included. Their violence is often under reported when not completely ignored.

cf said...

Trump is exactly right. I have said here how i listen to @NPR "news" as much as I can take, and have observed their obvious scripting and sculpting over the years . . .
The years of somber cello bridging segments during Bush's reign, then the bright-bright happy music years of Obama when all news was Great, like every Recovery Summer,
Then their tight-lipped control of all Hillary, filling instead every 7 minute segment Grrl-snarking at the candidate Trump.

But I could not have imagined how they have monstered up since then.

I do believe @NPR has responsibility in these latest murders. I do believe they fill the Air across the nation with a constant incendiary rain of incitement to all sides. smoothly, nerdily, cutely falsely representing and convicting half the nation as Evil.

may history not be kind to @arishapiro and the GRRRLs.

Jupiter said...

"I guess that depends in part on how you define white supremacy."

White supremacy is the doctrine that white people should rule the World. I don't think there are a lot of white supremacists around any more, although there used to be. White nationalism is the doctrine that white people have a right to exist and have nations. I am a white nationalist. Also a Japanese nationalist, and a black nationalist. Do you think the Japanese should be forced to accept massive immigration? What about the Ethiopians?

traditionalguy said...

White supremacy is 50 year old segregationist crap that Biden so admired. And it is now a costume party imitation thrown by the FBI and destroy America first psychos drugged by the rogue CIA Army of mind controllers.

Truth is a force of nature.

rhhardin said...

The media's responsibility is a throwback to when networks had to justify their FCC licenses to broadcast over the public airwaves and news was a loss center.

As of the 70s news was made a profit center and started doing whatever brought eyeballs to sell. Eventually 100% soap opera women.

Browndog said...


Dooooooooomed! We're dooooooooomed! Trump had a rhetorical fail! There is no hope! Stop fighting! This proves the forces of good are no match for dingbat progs!


I'm only responding to this grade school snark to point out that Trump also called for new hate crime legislation, and for social media companies to start cracking down and identifying "potential shooters".

I'd also like to point out how fast they changed the word "patriot" to "nationalist". So, if you happen to be white....you know the drill. You're now a member of a hate group.

Fernandinande said...

On the subject of white supremacy, mental illness, and detecting murder before it happens,

Most (57%) mass shootings are domestic violence and, just as most murderers are black, most mass murderers are black.

Browndog said...

“Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data,” he remarked. In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings. On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose… 500 to Medical errors300 to the Flu250 to Suicide200 to Car Accidents40 to Homicide via Handgun Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data. — Neil deGrasse Tyson (@neiltyson) August 4, 2019

He is now being destroyed by the left for this factual tweet.

M Jordan said...

I support Trump in most all ways except for his use of exclamation points. Rule #1 about them: Never use an exclamation point in text concerning somber news. Never!

hombre said...

Trump has exposed the leftmediaswine for the provocateurs they are - on so many fronts. “Look-at-me” wackjobs, whether potential shooters or pols like AOC, Omar and Nader, are inspired by media cheerleaders to more wackiness.

He sees them for what they are: enemies of the people and the Republic.

M Jordan said...

Cf, you’re right on the money about NPR.

rhhardin said...

Rush is going on about moral rot as the cause.

That's one of his turn-it-off topics, along with anthing about economics.

mccullough said...

Interesting how Trump proposed combining immigration reform with gun law reform.

Sounds like a trap for Dems

bagoh20 said...

Mass murder is not new, or even on the rise.
It will continue to happen forever.
Guns are not required to do it.
It happens everywhere.
The USA is far from the most prolific place.
Over 60 counties exceed our rate of mass shootings by population, including Norway and Sweden.
Outside of suicide it is always stopped the same way: a good guy with a gun.
We will enact laws that will reduce our rights.
We will enact laws that will make mass murderers more deadly.
We will enact laws that will make us less safe.
We will fail miserably at making things better.
Some politicians will benefit from our failure (their failure).

These things are not inevitable, but are very likely now, because "We have to do something". Even something stupid and counterproductive.
The only bright lights are that more states are permitting concealed carry, and more people are choosing to take on that responsibility.
Some places will become more dangerous and some less.
What if just one of the thousand innocent people in that Wallmart had a gun?
What if 20 of them did?

There was at least one guy armed, an ex-military guy, but he was not near the shooter and was occupied pulling kids outside.

chickelit said...

Gun control as envisioned by the Left is a nonstarter for many like me. I know far too many who feel that guns — not just semi-automatic ones — are utterly unnecessary. They question the very existence of organizations like the NRA. The gap is unbridgeable and might as well just get ready for the battle ahead.

solar emp said...

Every time I turn to cnn, they have someone on there talking about how the problem in this country is, "white men". They even had a lady on that said white men pose a greater threat to our country than anything else.
Dont they carry some of the blame?

TreeJoe said...

If mass shootings are the problem and they can be solved by legislation, please show me the analysis of how many mass shootings of the past 5-10 years would have been dis-positively prevented or made significantly less likely by the legislation proposed.

bagoh20 said...

The cause is human nature. Nothing is new about this stuff, and it will not go away. We simply need to defend ourselves as humans have always needed to do. When we don't, we die. Laws clearly have no effect on the the immoral and lawless, and that's who does the killing. It sucks that we have to defend ourselves against ourselves, but we always have had that necessity. The job is, and never has been taken on by most people. They depend on the rest who do. That's not going to change, and it's OK. We just need more good guys and gals doing that job.

I know the response to this: "We never needed this before." Yes we did, and that's why it has happened plenty before. You just didn't get bombarded with the story when it did.

Static Ping said...

White supremacy is not insanity. I personally think it is very wrong, it is almost always counterproductive, and it is distinctly un-Christian, but in the general order of things it is pretty typical human thinking. It is basic tribalism: that guy looks like me so he's my friend, and that other guy that does not look like me is my enemy. Tribalism can be a useful survival skill, but in the modern world it is more unhelpful than not.

Let me also note that "Intersectionality" is basically super-tribalism, which is also unhelpful. It also does not help that it is basically "everyone hate straight white males" which basically puts it on par with white supremacy as far as odiousness goes.

To go further into it, crazy people tend to be attracted to conspiracy theories. White supremacy is infested with conspiracy theories. It is not hard to make the connection.

bagoh20 said...

Murder of this style is predominantly a White male thing, but not exclusively, and more importantly, murder of all kinds is predominantly not a White thing, so that charge is just racist and wrong.

rhhardin said...

Serial killers are better copy than mass murderers anyway. Apparently all finesse has been lost in the psychopath community.

Browndog said...

-White people are evil. They are the biggest danger to society.

-We must identify dangerous, evil people, and remove their guns before they hurt someone.

It's not hard to see where this is going, and where it has been going for 40 years.

cf said...

"White nationalism" "white supremacy" is the fab new Cool Whip our Elite PolPot Supremacysts are frothing up out of nothing and lathering onto the nation.

unfortunately, in their fabrication, poor berated boys who would love to be loved think, "hey!" this must be my crowd.

sad.

Big Mike said...

The “something” we need to do is abolish “gun free zones.” No guns there except for mass murderers and — perhaps! — a policeman. Interesting statistic I got from the Internet:

“The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5. The reason is simple. The armed civilians are there when it started.”

Szoszolo said...

The Dayton shooter was a socialist who hated Trump, yet somehow the two shootings are being conflated as examples of white supremacist violence. Also being conflated: right-wing extremists and conservatism. I haven't heard any conservatives refusing to condemn white supremacist violence. There seem to be quite a few leftists and liberals, though, who refuse to condemn Antifa violence.

Krumhorn said...

Neil DeGrasse Tyson offered an interesting tweet yesterday that has the lefties in full-scale outrage.

But I repeat myself.

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

500 to Medical errors
300 to the Flu
250 to Suicide
200 to Car Accidents
40 to Homicide via Handgun

Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.

https://twitter.com/neiltyson

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The Dayton shooter was a socialist who hated Trump, yet somehow the two shootings are being conflated as examples of white supremacist violence.

Indeed. But don't get uppity about the biased lies flowing from the D-hack press - that will make you a white supremacist.

Guildofcannonballs said...

https://proteinwisdom.com/?p=58664
This is a link to a post entitled "IT’S TIME TO DECLARE WAR ON IDENTITY POLITICS" at Protein Wisdom.

...

"Trump, I felt back in 2016, had given some cover to this new grievance narrative. But his presidency has shown a clear rejection of “white supremacy,” opting instead for an America First platform that has lifted (at least, economically) every minority group, age group, and sex. It is a patriotic platform, not a racialist one, and as a result it has augured the reformation of the idea that the US is a propositional nation."

"To the left and adepts of identity politics this is an existential threat to their political influence. Individuals thinking and acting individually defang bloc voting by identity, which is key to the left’s coalition power. And the left has shown in the wake of recent shootings and civil unrest that it will not surrender its animating, identity politics program, which it continues ruthlessly to enforce through shaming, doxxing, boycotts, media propaganda, PC language, and physical intimidation. This totalitarian political impulse is at odds with our propositional nation."

stlcdr said...

"...the perils if the internet and social media..."

Is exactly right.

You don't have to be demonstrably, mentally, unhinged for the media that bombards us every day to turn an individual into a mass murderer. Luckily, the vast majority of us can separate our day to day lives and reality from the internet.

The rhetoric, by all accounts to me, is that it's the left wing media pushing that they are going to 'annihilate the right; we are coming for you' is enough to push what outwardly appears to be a normal person to do something irrational. Likewise, people attacking someone physically for wearing a red hat! An otherwise normal person driven to violence because of what?

Nichevo said...

On the subject of white supremacy, mental illness, and detecting murder before it happens, I wonder if there is any expert opinion about where the white supremacy arises in the process.


Just for kicks, Ann, if you don't mind, could we work also on non-white-supremacy-based crazies and killings?


Antifa must be investigated and neutralized. Antifa is full of such types. Dayton sounds like an antifa.

bagoh20 said...

Of course, Neil Tyson is correct on the facts there, but:

1) Pretty much everybody knows that lots of people are dying every minute.
2) That knowledge does nothing to help those directly affected, and seems to diminish their loss.
3) None of those deaths were done on purpose and out of hatred, let alone by a fellow American who can't possibly have a valid justification.

Tyson blew it on that one.

Anonymous said...

Browndog: I'm only responding to this grade school snark to point out that Trump also called for new hate crime legislation, and for social media companies to start cracking down and identifying "potential shooters".

Uh, why did your pointing out the above require any reference at all to my grade school snark? My grade school snark was directed at a specific something that you had already written, not related to either of the above "alsos". (On which I hadn't expressed any opinion, so again, why drag me into it?)

(I'm only responding to your grade-school handling of the grade-school butthurt you felt from my grade-school taunt to point that out.)

RobinGoodfellow said...

Are there white supremacists in the United States who are not mentally ill? I guess that depends in part on how you define white supremacy.

He’s a white supremacist—he’s mentally ill.

How do you know he is mentally ill?

Because he is a white supremacist.

IANAL, but that begs the question. If white supremacists are mentally ill, what about La Raza? Black Nationalists?

Fernandinande said...

"They found that, “there is actually very little literature that provides empirical evidence dealing with psychiatric predictions of dangerousness,”65(p226) and that “despite statutory and procedural trends to the contrary, the data available suggest no reason for involving psychiatrists in the dispositional processes of violent offenders under the expectation of predictive expertise.”65(p229)

Thirty-three years later, Swanson put it even more succinctly: “psychiatrists using clinical judgment are not much better than chance at predicting which individual patients will do something violent and which will not.”31,45"

Anthony said...

Funny, I Googled to look for the recent black person who was actually accused of being a white supremacist. . . . . all Google gave me were pages and pages of how Trump is a white supremacist and all the white supremacists out there killing black people.

Not biased at all, I tell you.

Fernandinande said...

where the white supremacy arises in the process

In the media. Almost no murders have anything to do with "white supremacy", or any other political ideas.

doctrev said...

The fake news has -constantly- glorified mass murderers, all in the name of selling more newspapers. President Trump needs to impose costs on these people, much as they demand a federal carbox tax on employers. Hit them with fines, or far better seize CNN and all of its operating assets. Make it clear he'll move up the chain every time a mass shooting is lionized and offered hundreds of hours of study. You'll see a quick end to the problem in America.

bagoh20 said...

Of course they are out there, but I'm 60 years old, and I never met a white supremacist or even heard of any that someone else new. For being the cause of things bad in this nation, they sure are stealthy or else very powerful even in small numbers.

wildswan said...

Trump introduced two new possible policies - better policing of the internet and better identification together with involuntary incarceration of the dangerous mentally ill.

In days of eugenics the mentally ill were incarcerated for their entire lifetime so that some people were "rounded-up" in the Thirties and released in the Seventies because they showed "signs of mental illness" which included: being pregnant and on welfare, or being deaf or having Down's Syndrome. So in reaction nobody gets locked up now for much longer than it takes a regime of drugs to calm them down. We would not reproduce the abuses of eugenical mental health programs if we avoid lifelong incarceration but if we allow longer periods inside.

But we have to realize that for some "signs of mental illness" now include being male or a Trump supporter. Whereas it would not be regarded as a sign of mental illness to post a picture of oneself holding a fake bloodied head or to wear a noose and falsely claim to have been assaulted or to shoot six Congressmen. So we need to determine the real red flags and how they relate to the internet.

William said...

Saints who led blameless lives were said to wield influence in heaven. That's why we pray to them. In like way, people who did extremely evil deeds were said to gain influence with Satan. That's why sincere Satanists want to bathe in the blood of virgins rather than overeaters.....The media presents white nationalism as an extremely evil thing. This attracts people whose ambition is to be evil and infamous. I think the loose filings will be drawn to white supremacy precisely because it is evil. There are other evil ideologies in the world but they don't have the dark glamour of white supremacy.

Anonymous said...

AA: "On the subject of white supremacy, mental illness, and detecting murder before it happens, I wonder if there is any expert opinion about where the white supremacy arises in the process."

Do you have an interest rare mental pathologies, or do you seriously believe that "white supremacy" is an ideology of politically and sociologically significant numbers of people?

(If the latter, it's time to step away from the "prestige" media and enter a detox program.)

William said...

Anarchists, Marxists, IRA members, Islamic militants occasionally indulge in mass murder. In the media, the perps don't have a good press, but their cause is not usually depicted as intrinsically evil. Sometimes it's even presented as a mitigating factor. If you want to be intrinsically evil, it pays to be a white supremacist.

Once written, twice... said...

Of course Ann would not write about the role mental illness might play in terrorism carried out by Muslim individuals. Why is that?

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

perhaps some parallels in "Falling Down",(1993) with M Douglas ?

no eye-rolls for Dowd's sloppy "Requiem For White Men" ?
Trump has inverted all the old American ideals, soiling the image of our country in the world and reshaping it around his grievances and inadequacies
America is struggling to find a new identity with a more colorful mosaic, moving beyond our monochromatic past. More new heroines and heroes need to emerge, both onscreen and in life.

Once written, twice... said...

Ann could have speculated about mental illness and individuals drawn to terrorism without limiting it to white supremacists. But she didn’t for obvious reasons.

wildswan said...

Does white supremacy drive you crazy? I've studied eugenics (opposing it) for 25 years and I know that the eugenicists were not all insane although they supported white supremacy. So I don't think that mere contact with any set of ideas or images or even situations or even believing in dreadful policies leads to insanity. It's just like any other part of life - if you get obsessive about a situation that makes you angry, you will soon be in trouble. Like TDS. Look what it has done to parts of the media.

Dave Begley said...

The Fake News wants Trump to lose. China wants Trump to lose. If Trump loses, the Chinese win the trade war. Joe Biden and his family are owned by the Chinese. The Chinese will be working hard to defeat Trump and elect Joe.

Does anyone doubt the above?

cf said...

The truth is that Trump supporters are decent folk who, like the vast majority of Americans, naturally adopted the excellent, reasonable metric championed by Martin Luther King,Jr. to judge by character and not by skin color.

But that does not fit the Elite Supremacist power template, and we are falsely accused so viciously and constantly, I find myself fantasizing how to respond dramatically to their treason. Realistically, this is my best shot, a 40 minute #SittinginSat:

< { looking to Most High powerful Goodness, enlighten every heart with their own true & unique Good. Flow through, renew & calm all minds, each & every one; shield, nurture and heal the hearts of all: those in danger, those who watch, those who chatter, those who rage. "Cuidalo todos! Cada uno!!! } >

Browndog said...

bagoh20 said...

Of course they are out there, but I'm 60 years old, and I never met a white supremacist or even heard of any that someone else new. For being the cause of things bad in this nation, they sure are stealthy or else very powerful even in small numbers.


Agreed.

I hope Media Research Center tracks how many times CNN/MSMBC uses the term "White Supremacy today.

They've made "white nationalist" synonymous with "White supremacy", now it's on to the ultimate goal of making "white" synonymous with "white supremacy".

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Nick Sandmann, the white supremacist?

"The 'Make America Great Again' slogan has shown its face in various ugly incidents of racism and become a symbol of white supremacy in Trump’s America."

https://dailyiowan.com/2019/01/27/column-maga-is-becoming-a-symbol-of-white-supremacy/

n.n said...

There was no diversity, but rather a chosen outlet, not limited to a single diversity class. Th problem is the progress of diversity (i.e. color judgment, anti-nativism), selective exclusion, and projections that have masked underlying causes and shared, shifted responsibility.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Krumhorn said...

None of those deaths were done on purpose and out of hatred, let alone by a fellow American who can't possibly have a valid justification.

Tyson blew it on that one.


Why is intention a distinguishing quality in producing nonstop media coverage and political red-hot posturing? If the concern is about those who died and protecting those in the future from a similar end, then these horrific events are statistical white noise compared to the larger picture of grief-producing deaths.

For example, if it is the case that 200 people die in car accidents in any given 48 hour period, one would think that the uproar would be overwhelming to reduce all speed limits to 30 MPH, merciless enforcement of impaired driving, and confiscation of vehicles driven by unlicensed drivers. Emotionally, car accidents are just as brutal, equally random, and cause searing pain to family members equivalent to any of these recent events.

The same can be said of medical errors. While not intentional, the end result is the same. Why shouldn't there be an uproar about relieving negligent health care workers of their licenses?

The answer is that these deaths are highly localize events and lack the spectacle of a nightclub or public event. And that spectacle fuels frenzied politics to advance agendas. The global warming hysteria is the same. It's merely a vehicle to propel political and social objectives.

- Krumhorn

Fernandinande said...

I see many references to the "Mother Jones" database of mass shootings, but they omit nearly all incidents.

Variation in How Mass Shootings Are Defined and Counted

#mass shootings in 2015 by various definitions:

332: Gun Violence Archive
371: Mass Shooting Tracker
65: Mass Shootings in America database
7: Mother Jones

So "Mother Jones" only includes 7 of over 300 mass shootings in their database; a little over 2% of the actual mass shootings.

n.n said...

One guy harbored a left-wing ideology, and the other both or a trans-spectral ideology or "moderate".

Is white diversity limited to white-whites, or does it include anyone with so-called "white privilege", including white-browns, white-blacks, white-yellows, white-oranges, etc.?

Nick Sandmann, the white supremacist?

Human rights advocates are clearly rabid diversitists, and politically congruent or selectively exclusive.

narayanan said...

Here, in Toledo, as a high schooler the kid had two "hit lists": one to kill, one to rape. He was removed from the school,

Q: Where are the parents?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Nick Sandman is guilty because hacks in the media say he is guilty.

walter said...

Buck Sexton
‏Verified account @BuckSexton
45m45 minutes ago

Your reminder that CNN gave this guy his own show-

for years he was put on air as a “religion expert” whose main job was to do absurd acrobatics to claim Islamism/Jihadism was not really a uniquely Islamic phenomenon, so Leftists could sneer at anyone who said otherwise


Reza Aslan
‏Verified account @rezaaslan
18h18 hours ago

After today there is no longer any room for nuance. The President is a white nationalist terror leader. His supporters - ALL OF THEM - are by definition white nationalist terror supporters. The MAGA hat is a KKK hood. And this evil, racist scourge must be eradicated from society.
3,066 replies 464 retweets 1,887 likes

Balfegor said...

I think there's a broad range of beliefs that are commonly characterised as "white supremacy" today, even leaving out the loony progressive stuff, like believing that a future time orientation is racist. E.g. believing that the Anglo-American cultural and political tradition is superior to pretty much everything else is "white supremacy;" White people having a preference for their own kind is "white supremacy;" wanting immigrants to follow immigration law instead of rushing the border is "white supremacy;" and wanting to exterminate all non-White races is "white supremacy."

Most of these don't sound particularly crazy to me. It's really just that last one -- you know, with the mass murder -- that does. And I think that if mass murder is where you end up, there were some mental brakes missing in the first place. Yes, it might be "white supremacy" this time, but it could just as well be Antifa, or Communism, or National Socialism, or Environmentalism, or the Caliphate, or the dream of universal Empire. But for most normal people (at least when not part of an ecstatic mob) when a chain of logical reasoning leads to the incidental conclusion that large numbers of people have to be liquidated, that prompts one to re-examine one's priors, rather than to pick up a gun to go out and do the needful.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

is "White" a skin color/race, an orientation, or modus operandi ?

traditionalguy said...

If you see a young shooter taking the rap that is alive and alert he is most likely had his personality broken down by drugs and "therapists" and may in a recovery mode but has no idea why he did it when he did it. Those cases seem to have multiple shooters seen and suppressed by the FBI " Investigation that takes all evidence and then never ends".

If you see a shooter that self inflicts his own death shot or commits suicide by cop, then you are likely dealing with a true psycho.

Douglas B. Levene said...

How can you stop mass shootings? One alternative would be to disarm the civilian population. If you’re not prepared to do that, then you need to be a long more creative. So-called gun control measures short of civilian disarmament won’t do much.

narayanan said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MzPzfEVjNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhi2icRXbHo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ9KCG0KO4U

Stalin got others to do the shooting for him.
He is still studied and even venerated by a few.

Not a white supremacist but a Marxist belief - individual life does not count.

The only and first question to ask any socialist - how many will you kill

Krumhorn said...

Continuing on the point, the single feature of "hate crimes" is the intention of the perp. Why do we give a shit about what we divine as the intention behind monstrous acts. The victim is just as dead as if there were no particular intention at all other than to cause the victim's death. We are punishing someone for what they were thinking when they were taking someone's life when we should be focusing entirely on the actual act.

If a plane falls out of the sky due to equipment failure or pilot error, hundreds of people die shocking and terrifying deaths. Our reaction to those events has been to greatly reduce the number of such events by improved technology and pilot training.

- Krumhorn

tim in vermont said...

Who ever can lie the loudest and the longest is the winner.

Elite Media is like the “War College” dreaming up tactics, and the MSM is like one of those Chinook gunships from the Viet Nam war, the ones with guns coming out of every port and literally tons of ammunition aboard. There was no arguing with one those, they just rained down ammunition in sheets on you. Well, that’s the volume of lies coming out of the MSM and the information control industry giants like Google Alphabet. You can’t argue with that volume of propaganda and win, any more than a unit of soldiers on foot could argue with one of those gunships.

rcocean said...

"That's one of his turn-it-off topics, along with anthing about economics."

To me its anything about economics or the Middle East or North Korea. Rush has nothing of interest to say on those subjects. Just standard boilerplate.

PM said...

2008 - 2016
39 mass shootings, including Sandy Hook, Fort Hood, San Bernadino and Orlando, where 49 people were massacred, second only to Las Vegas. Was the sitting President's race ever considered the reason?

Sebastian said...

"with no acknowledgment of his use of those platforms to promote his brand of divisive politics"

This was in a "news" article, right?

Anyway, are satanist Warren supporters now also "white supremacists"?

rcocean said...

So now we're on white supremacy. AGAIN. How did this happen? Its like living in the USSR, and we all follow the Pravda line.

People can't even DEFINE white supremacy or explain black supremacy is good or Jewish supremacy is good or Irish Supremacy is good, but White supremacy is bad. They cant' even explain why we weren't using this word 15 years ago. What made this word suddenly necessary?

These events happen. The MSM/Liberals decide to use it to push their agenda, and we all fall in line.

Balfegor said...

Re: rcocean:

People can't even DEFINE white supremacy or explain black supremacy is good or Jewish supremacy is good or Irish Supremacy is good, but White supremacy is bad. They cant' even explain why we weren't using this word 15 years ago.

If you look at google trends, you can see that use of the term "white supremacy" seems to have peaked in 1947 (probably overhang from WW2, when we were fighting German supremacists) and fallen off sharply since. What's bizarre about the past five or ten years or so is all the ways in which "white supremacy" has been defined down to the point of parody, so that having a dog is "white supremacy." Something similar has happened to "racism," but not nearly as quickly, or to the same extent.

Beasts of England said...

'His supporters - ALL OF THEM - are by definition white nationalist terror supporters. And this evil, racist scourge must be eradicated from society.'

I'm sure I could have a well-reasoned discussion with this fella...

Anonymous said...

Do "white privilege" and "white supremacy" have the same underlying concept just seen from different perspectives?

Jim at said...

If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun. - not said by Donald Trump.

Tell me who's being divisive again?

Anonymous said...

Gundroon: Do "white privilege" and "white supremacy" have the same underlying concept just seen from different perspectives?

No, they're both bullshit terms arising from the same cretinous perspective.

narciso said...

Remember 1984 as a how to manual

https://mobile.twitter.com/ali/status/1158184026701737984

rcocean said...

used the google search.

What's hilarious is the KKK is mentioned 10x more in 2019 then it was in 1940, even though the number of KKK members has declined by 99%!

Otto said...

Alinsky rules the day. It has been in the Democrat's playbook for well over a half century. The Republicans have lagged behind but it is now in their playbook.
But the Democrats have a wide advantage due to the mass media being on their side.
Turning into a tower of babel.

CJinPA said...

You can support Identity Politics or you can oppose White Supremacy, but you can't do both.

walter said...

Dave Begley said...And is it wrong to mention the number of Americans killed in Chicago and Baltimore by gun violence?
--
Well..can the motives be somehow exploited to attack Trump?

Clark said...

The idea that pursuing an evil end must be irrational or un-reasoned goes back to at least Plato (who thought that if I truly understood I would do good). That idea is woven, in a complex way, into standard views about ethics, etc. But there is good reason to question it. See Reasonably Vicious, by Candace Vogler.

rhhardin said...

What is being done about Bourne supremacy.

M Jordan said...

Overlooked as always in these situations is the role of the left and the media in taunting. Taunting is also a huge part of Antifa’s arsenal. I was at a Trump rally in 2016 in, of all places, South Bend. Antifa types (perhaps actual Antifa) walked up and down the street along the lines of people attending, middle fingers upraised, leaning in close, shouting “Fuck Trump.” After the rally ended, they were gathered across the street, taunting exciters. Others were driving the streets in an endless loop, audio blasting F Trump songs. They were clearly looking for a punch to be thrown and in fact one almost was. :)

I see the media as Shakespeare’s Iago, one of literature’s most diabolical characters. They are the serpent in Eden, insidious to the core, manipulating, taunting, egging on, hoping for that punch which then they’ll use as evidence in their unholy war. It’s truly ugly.

Hagar said...

To hold down on the copycatting, require their names to be withheld and their faces blurred for a week following the shooting.

bagoh20 said...

."How can you stop mass shootings? One alternative would be to disarm the civilian population."

Obviously, that's backwards. So much so that I thought it was a typo.

1) All the mass shootings happen precisely where the civilians are disarmed.
2) Mass shootings happen plenty in places where gun are completely outlawed, and they often happen at a higher rate than in the U.S. where at least some of the civilians are armed.

Disarming civilians has to be just about the most illogical solution possible. Is there any place on earth where that has worked? Not to mention that many mass murders are not committed with guns at all, but they could still be stopped by them if the civilians were armed. The Paris terrorist attack in 2015 for instance, where armed men killed 130 people without anyone challenging them until the swat teams mobilized. I bet a lot of people that day wished the citizens were armed, even just one in the restaurant where they hid under a table helpless as the killers advanced.

Hagar said...

and no publishing of "manifestos."

narciso said...

right wing watch is like splc and media matters, it's catnip for psychos,

Fernandinande said...

If you look at google trends,

Google ngram doesn't work correctly if you put quotes around the strings, so try it again without the quotes.

Also the ngram search period ended 11 years ago, so recent trends don't show up.

bagoh20 said...

Why do people continue to believe, against all evidence, that making something illegal stops bad or crazy people from doing it. If that was even remotely true, we wouldn't have a million people in jail, and nobody would need keys, locks, passwords, or police.

Fernandinande said...

..and the quotes are why ngram says "No valid ngrams to plot!"

traditionalguy said...

White supremacy is as old as The Great Gatsby. It is the old fear that white people will be outnumbered. But since MLK's work the whites have 99.9% made sure they quit that crap that always applied to African-American citizens.

The resurgence today is all as the war cry by the Soros/Obama Community destroyers bragging that the world outnumbers the weak northern European whites. But they have to throw in Hispanics and Arabs, India Indians and Asians as if they are treated like African American citizens were once in the 1960s.

Ergo: It's a propaganda war with the America's Media an enemy at war with the USA's existence.

ga6 said...

And then there is this elected official:

"Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot says President Donald Trump has blown ‘every racist, xenophobic dog whistle,’ pledges support for West Side".

According to the Chicago Tribune.

chickelit said...

Blogger M Jordan said: Overlooked as always in these situations is the role of the left and the media in taunting. Taunting is also a huge part of Antifa’s arsenal. I was at a Trump rally in 2016 in, of all places, South Bend. Antifa types (perhaps actual Antifa) walked up and down the street along the lines of people attending, middle fingers upraised, leaning in close, shouting “Fuck Trump.” After the rally ended, they were gathered across the street, taunting exciters
. Others were driving the streets in an endless loop, audio blasting F Trump songs. They were clearly looking for a punch to be thrown and in fact one almost was. :)


I was taunted by leftists at Trump rally in San Diego in early 2016; I blogged about it at Lem’s at the time. Then there was voting in the 2016 general election. In Oceanside CA, this was done in suburban garages. The next door neighbor to my polling place erected a large “Fuck Trump” sign aimed at voters. Such taunts are not sticks and stones, but I do hold it against them.

TJM said...

If the New York Slimes and its ilk went away America would be a more peaceful place. They are the haters and they try to project their hate onto everyone else. Interesting that both shooters were registered Demtards and leftists.

cacimbo said...

Media continue to spread the lie that the El Paso shooter was a right wing white supremacist. The shooter's manifesto is an illogical rant against both parties. In the manifesto he rants against "Hispanics" a made up term for people who come from spanish speaking countries. Since many hispanics are white, xenophobe would more accurately describe the shooter than white supremacist.
The shooter also states "I am against race mixing because it destroys genetic diversity and creates identity problems." That sure sounds left wing to me.

bagoh20 said...

The purpose of the "white supremacy" meme is to make people embarrassed to support Trump. Make supporting him somehow associated with something nobody likes, and you get rid of a bunch of spineless support, at least in the polling. This shooter being a racist was a huge gift to the left. It fits the caricature. Logically, it doesn't follow, especially since he was also a leftist, but logic has little to do with politics. I think it's starting to work. It a real test of people's character if they can resist it.

Pettifogger said...

I'm not qualified to give a serious answer to whether white supremacists are necessarily mentally ill, but I would like to see it discussed in terms of racial supremacists of whatever color. As soon as a commenter says only white people can be racist, we can discount anything else the commenter days.

steve uhr said...

There has to be some compromise on gun control. The NRA never seems to give an inch.

Lewis said...

How could you not no? It's hard not to know

Achilles said...

steve uhr said...
There has to be some compromise on gun control. The NRA never seems to give an inch.

Unalienable.

God gave me the right to defend myself.

From you and your totalitarian friends.

bagoh20 said...

"According to reports on Twitter and in the media, the man shot and killed by police after killing nine and injuring 27 in a mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, was not just a Democrat but an open socialist. He also supported gun control, would vote for Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and encouraged violence against Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)."

https://pjmedia.com/trending/report-dayton-shooter-supported-gun-control-socialism-liz-warren/

I can proudly say that I do not support a single thing this guy favored, or anything the Walmart shooter did. It seems to me that both of these assholes are pretty much inline with all the people trying to attach him to Trump supporters. See how backwards that is, and yet that is the overwhelming coverage by the media - a nearly complete and total propagandist lie.

walter said...

bagoh20 said.. I bet a lot of people that day wished the citizens were armed, even just one in the restaurant where they hid under a table helpless as the killers advanced.
--
Yeah..unarmed beat cops not much help there.

I'm Full of Soup said...

I am against the withholding the names, pictures etc.

I think we should do the reverse- publish every God damn thing we can find about the killer and his relatives. In fact, let's enact a law that the govt must publish 4-5 years of federal tax returns, credit reports, college & high school transcripts, W-2's etc for the killer and his immediate family members. Then maybe the killer will think twice about putting his family through the wringer.

walter said...

chickelit said...In Oceanside CA, this was done in suburban garages. The next door neighbor to my polling place erected a large “Fuck Trump” sign aimed at voters.
--
Was it outside the legal perimeter for such near polling place?

Fernandinande said...

I think President Trump is right: you CAN identify these mentally ill killers before they buy a weapon.

So you presented a list of failures to do so as evidence that it's possible - ?

Actual data shows that psychiatrists and psychologists have almost no predictive ability in this area, partly because violent people, including mass shooters, do NOT have mental problems like schizophrenia which are easy to ID. Like other murderers, most mass murderers kill people they know.

bagoh20 said...

There has to be some compromise on gun control. The NRA never seems to give an inch."

What is the compromise that would stop mass shootings? Then one that would stop bombings, or arson, or running people down with vehicles, because you will need that too.

Rosalyn C. said...

So far we have not seen or heard of an organized effort by white nationalist groups to commit mass murder. I think the white supremacy is a side issue. The main issue is untreated mental illness and the ability of sick individuals to obtain lethal weapons. And, as Trump pointed out, we have a sub culture which glorifies slaughter and murder as a game and a form of entertainment. We have to stop looking the other way when we see people who are in trouble emotionally, in particular young men.

There is plenty of racism in the world and plenty of frustration in the US about immigration but most people don't resort to murder and never will.

narciso said...

no we give them too much attention, when it's an incident like pulse, they hide the motive, scramble the ballistics evidence, pay some old man to allege the shooter was a self hating gay or something, re las vegas the bureau can't even venture a motive, in parkland everyone knew this guy, was loose cannon but from the principals office to the department of education, everyone was silent,

Kansas Scout said...

Would you give us your opinion on "Red Flag Laws"??

narciso said...

they would say Oklahoma city, that was 24 years ago, but there it is, further they have tried to make a deal over various failed plots in the last few years, whenever Orlando or san Bernardino has been brought up,

wildswan said...

" AAT said...
Who ever can lie the loudest and the longest is the winner."

Disagree. In Wisconsin in 2018 the Republican candidate for the WI Supreme Court was outspent by millions, money from outside the state poured in. The lefty f*ckwit was endorsed by everyone including Eric Holder. The Journal never said anything good about the Repub and hardly anything at all about him. The lefty was ahead in all the polls. And the lefty lost.

They're still asking why but I think people just understood the issues. They could be shouted down but that didn't change their minds, it just made them more determined.

As was said at the Battle of Maldon where two Nordic tribes were fighting each other:
Hige sceal þē heardra, heorte þē cēnre,
mōd sceal þē māre, þē ūre mægen lytlað.

Joanne Jacobs said...

I think the mental illness comes first, then the search for a justification for acting out. The Parkland shooter sent out lots of danger signals, but many of these guys do not. (It's common for a psychotic break to occur in the late teens and early 20s.)

The Gilroy shooter came from a two-parent, middle-class family and had brothers who are doing fine. The Mercury News searched in vain for anyone who remembered him in the three schools (two private, one public) he attended. He was practically invisible, until he killed a 6-year-old boy, a 13-year-old girl and a 25-year-old man. Perhaps he wanted attention: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/04/gilroy-shooter-left-little-impression-on-classmates-community/

I'd like to see more effort to identify and treat mental illness, but I don't think it will stop these mass killings. I have no faith in gun control either: There are too many guns out there. Less macho posturing by politicians (and others) would be nice for its own sake.

MayBee said...

Blogger bagoh20 said...
The purpose of the "white supremacy" meme is to make people embarrassed to support Trump


Yes, that's true. That's why people are throwing aside the non-white and non-right mass shootings and only focusing on those that seem to have some connection. They also want to make it part of white supremacy to want to have laws about illegal immigration.
I don't think it's going to work, but they keep trying. And they keep getting more and more spun up. I don't know if they think they aren't spewing hate, but they are wrong

0_0 said...

From 538.com:

"The common element in all these deaths is a gun. But the causes are very different, and that means the solutions must be, too."

Beasts of England said...

'There has to be some compromise on gun control.'

Forgive me if I'm unwilling to compromise while the left spews this tripe:

'And this evil, racist scourge must be eradicated from society.'

Achilles said...

Hagar said...
To hold down on the copycatting, require their names to be withheld and their faces blurred for a week following the shooting.

No.

To hold down on the copycatting you hang them by their feet and skin them alive publicly.

At least one of these was antifa. The other one just wanted all the same stuff antifa wants.

So end antifa.

The last thing you do to stop copycatting is get rid of gun free zones. These shootings all happen in gun free zones. One of the shooters made that explicit.

MayBee said...

I do think most of this is mental illness- that seems to be the one thing almost all of them have in common. None of these people are the teenagers the neighbors were all having babysit their own kids. It's like a mix of feeling invisible, angry, having mental illness, and seeking the only instagram moment you are likely to get is so alluring. People who might otherwise commit suicide (and often do) but want to be noticed more than a quiet suicide would warrant.

I wish it were more of a thing to call someone to help when you see a problem. And I mean lots of problems: how many young people have overdosed on drugs when their friends knew they were using dangerously but didn't think it was cool to tell someone? How many people commit suicide and their friends didn't think it was cool to tell their parents they talked about it? How many people notice their son is going off the rails but they have no idea who to call, that won't end up ruining their lives?

I just keep thinking of the parents of the Dayton shooter. In my imagination, they were so happy their sullen son was finally going to have a night on the town with his sister.

But come on. Help people out here. What are we supposed to do? What are people who are afraid of or for their loved ones supposed to do?

Francisco D said...

There has to be some compromise on gun control. The NRA never seems to give an inch.

Steve,

Can you suggest a compromise that will reduce shootings while protecting the 2nd Amendment rights of law abiding citizens?

BTW, some of those citizens save lives when exercising their rights

Browndog said...

Today is the MAGA Baltimore clean-up organized by white supremacist Scott Pressler.

MayBee said...

It must be so wonderful to be on the left and declare yourself against guns, against the NRA, and for "common sense" gun laws and then you are absolved of any of this. You can call anyone else a hater. Imagine actually being outraged that people are unwilling to see the simplicity of the solution, and most of the media pats you on the back and lets you know you are the Right Kind of American.

Original Mike said...

Blogger steve uhr said..."There has to be some compromise on gun control. The NRA never seems to give an inch."

You're of the belief that we don't have gun control now?

MayBee said...

The withholding of names doesn't seem to be working.

narciso said...

in other news:

https://www.breitbart.com/border/2019/08/05/president-of-honduras-named-in-u-s-drug-trafficking-case/

MayBee said...

Remember when it was a big thing after terrorist attacks to say things like "We didn't even stop eating our dinner" or "we just kept walking. A little terrorism doesn't stop (Londoners/New Yorkers/etc")

Bruce Hayden said...

“Gun control as envisioned by the Left is a nonstarter for many like me. I know far too many who feel that guns — not just semi-automatic ones — are utterly unnecessary. They question the very existence of organizations like the NRA. The gap is unbridgeable and might as well just get ready for the battle ahead”

It’s also impossible to do at any appreciable level. For example, the Clinton AWB banned standard sized magazines, limiting everyone, except for police and military, to reduced capacity magazines of (I believe) 10 rounds (and, no surprise, most of the standard sized magazines found with criminals were marked for use by police or military only). Since it’s expiration, north of a hundred million standard sized magazines have been sold. Probably north of two hundred million by now. How are you going to get them out of the public’s hands? Go door to door? You go first. Ditto for “assault weapons”, esp of the AR type. Most popular long gun in the market these days. Millions sold every year, for good reason, not having anything to do with their scary looks. The reality is that trying to disarm the American populace would be a suicide mission.

FullMoon said...



I AGREE 1000%!!!!

M Jordan said...

I support Trump in most all ways except for his use of exclamation points. Rule #1 about them: Never use an exclamation point in text concerning somber news. Never!

narciso said...

and in another basis for this current crisis:


https://www.wsj.com/articles/guatemala-doesnt-need-bernie-sanders-11564955452

Bruce Hayden said...

“BTW, some of those citizens save lives when exercising their rights”

Outside big Dem controlled city ghettos, far more lives are saved with guns, without firing a shot, than are lost by the use of guns. Of course, not firing a shot means that the criminals scared off will most likely go find easier targets. But that is mostly the choice of those easier targets.

Nichevo said...

The Joker: I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself. Look what I did to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple of bullets. Hmmm? You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds. Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!

Christopher Nolan
The Dark Knight

Todd said...

I think the roots to this are multi-fold but much of this has to do with mental illness. The abysmal state of modern mental health and treatment belongs to the liberals and the Democrats. These two groups, those outside of politics and those in both pushed to empty the mental institutions onto the streets and away from care. Now you have armies of homeless mentally ill individuals wandering around without treatment able to inflict harm on others. Liberals/Dems OWN this. Even when someone is identified as being a cause for worry, current laws prevent anyone that knows anything from sharing that information with the community. An unstable person's "right" to freedom trumps everyone else's right to safety. This will continue until the left are "properly" in charge and then anyone not solidly left will be deemed ill enough to require hospitalization and treatment (see Russia and China). That is the goal of progressives and has been their "long game" for years.

Nichevo said...

Krumhorn, that was my response to your "Why is intention a distinguishing quality in producing nonstop media coverage and political red-hot posturing?"

Achilles said...

Kansas Scout said...
Would you give us your opinion on "Red Flag Laws"??


They are a lie.

Anyone who pushes them is stupid or evil.

How many more laws can you pass for people to break before they decide they can't break the next one?

There are already laws against murder with the stiffest penalties our society permits. Adding another law where the state gets to "flag" someone and send them to jail is an obvious attack on the law abiding.

Red Flag Laws will invariably become back door gun control on political opponents of the left.

Nichevo said...

Intentionality is important to people. For ine thing, "if there's no solution, there's no problem." Vast impersonal forces of nature are something successful people take reasonable precautions against, and then tune out. If younlive in Kansas ams fear tornadoes, you can:

-Build a storm cellar
-Listen to weather alerts
-Leave Kansas

What you cannot do is, every waking moment, fill your mind with fear. People can't live that way.

Bruce Hayden said...

“You're of the belief that we don't have gun control now?”

Uhh is a standard issue leftist, where the laws and regulations only ratchet in one direction.

My idea of common sense gun control would be to reopen the machine gun registry. Criminals are getting their automatic weapons, along with their drugs, smuggled into this country across our southern border. Which means that they now often outgun civilians in this country, and even sometimes the police. It makes no sense to me that the only people with automatic weapons are criminals and some police.

FullMoon said...

Blogger Joanne Jacobs said...

I think the mental illness comes first, then the search for a justification for acting out. The Parkland shooter sent out lots of danger signals, but many of these guys do not. (It's common for a psychotic break to occur in the late teens and early 20s.)

The Gilroy shooter came from a two-parent, middle-class family and had brothers who are doing fine. The Mercury News searched in vain for anyone who remembered him in the three schools (two private, one public) he attended. He was practically invisible, until he killed a 6-year-old boy, a 13-year-old girl and a 25-year-old man. Perhaps he wanted attention
I'd like to see more effort to identify and treat mental illness, but I don't think it will stop these mass killings. I have no faith in gun control either: There are too many guns out there. Less macho posturing by politicians (and others) would be nice for its own sake.


Lots of young guys are un happy and pissed off for no particular reason. Takes a crazy to kill people you do not even know. Black ghetto killings generally aimed at someone or some group that done you wrong.
Defining mental illness a problem. Unless I am mistaken, California law says any household who has a member been hospitalized can not posses firearms. Have a teen who did a long weekend, give up your guns. What's next, check prescription records for women on anti depressants, confiscate guns?

Also,in my opinion crazies on meds are seldom aware of consequences of quitting meds. Either miss the manic fun, or feel they are cured so quit taking meds.

Have a couple of adult peripherals who go through semi-manic periods. The rest of us have to watch them like children , making sure they get enough sleep as= they risk going over the edge, and back into four day drug induced hospitalization.

BTW, liked you in Merc News,pre-internet when life was more simple.

Jim at said...

The NRA never seems to give an inch.

That's because leftists never stop at just an inch.

Nichevo said...

Hey, I've got a long term solution idea. Just throwing it out there...

Everyone, at the age of say thirteen, or otherwise as the shrinks advise, is universally profiled for crazy threat value.

It should be on objective fair standards. Not, do you like the President, but the usual shrink stuff, like Rorschach blots and the TAT, MMPI and so forth. We could call it the Voight-Kampff test.

Anyone identified as an actual or potential problem gets a little extra attention, follow-up. Sooner or later it may lead to various loss of privileges...

I'm sure there are pitfalls, but if we avoid ideology, at least it seems fair.

This stuff starts early. Early detection, early prevention.

narciso said...


yes, this won't incite violence:

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/scott-whitlock/2019/08/05/cbs-trumps-speeches-almost-identical-manifesto-crazed-killer

Original Mike said...

I read a stat today (probably at Insty) that the average number of casualties when the police stop a shooter is 14, whereas when a citizen with a gun does it it's 2.5. In a rational world that, rather than "gun control", would be our starting place.

narciso said...

civility lets try that:


https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/08/05/truly-sick-actress-debra-messing-wholeheartedly-endorses-violent-fantasy-about-mitch-mcconnell-and-dana-loesch/

Brian said...

Trump is grabbing the high ground (there's a problem that needs to be fixed) and establishing a negotiating position (I'll trade more enhanced background checks for increased immigration control of dangerous criminals).

His opponents are reaching for the moon (ban all non-bolt action rifles) and demanding that Trump accept that he's racist.

Which is the appealing message? Which will be the more appealing message long term?

Pelosi should immediately take the President's bait and put an enhanced background check bill on the floor. She won't though.

wendybar said...

I put the blame on the vile, vicious, attacking left wing media propaganda machine who swooned for 8 years for ANYTHING that the previous administration did, and called American citizens concerned about the spending big government programs that were being shoved down our throats because the President had a Pen and a phone. NOW...they can't handle somebody they hate with that same power. We tried to warn them, so now we are all racists for doing what they were doing all along. We live in upside down world.

wendybar said...

The called us Racists (I left out that word) There is a whole dictionary full of words like barbarians, terrorists, ect that people like Joe Biden and others called Americans and the Media ran with it.

n.n said...

Black, brown, yellow, white supremacy... The issue is diversity or color judgment. Bigotry or sanctimonious hypocrisy is significant when there are relevant principles (i.e. "character"). The problem establishment and progress of Pro-Choice, political congruence, monotonically divergent ideologies, and government-corporate collusion that speaks truth to fascism. #HateLovesAbortion

Jupiter said...

Blogger steve uhr said...
"There has to be some compromise on gun control. The NRA never seems to give an inch."

How about if we just compromise on your First Amendment rights instead? Shut your lying mouth or we'll throw your worthless Commie ass out of a helicopter. That work for you?

n.n said...

That's because leftists never stop at just an inch.

They start with the fingers, the toes, and progress to dismemberment of arms, legs, and head. That said, there will be a conversation, free from the cages they have carefully constructed to trap and torture people... persons, their competing interests.

Original Mike said...

Now, now, Jupiter.

Browndog said...

It's sad that many believe only the NRA is stopping the left from abolishing the 2nd Amendment, considering this nation was founded on it's protection by the government.

Bruce Hayden said...

“His opponents are reaching for the moon (ban all non-bolt action rifles) and demanding that Trump accept that he's racist.”

Yeh. Right. Ban us back to 19th Century gun technology, while the criminal element continue to get their machine guns smuggled in from Mexico. The WW II M1 Garland main battle rifle is semiautomatic with en bock clips. The M1 Carbine (that my father carried from India, up the Burma Road, into China, and back) is semiautomatic with detachable magazines.

Jim at said...

considering this nation was founded on it's protection by the government.

Indeed.

So it makes one wonder if Trump is truly Hitler, one would think leftists would be buying up guns and ammo like there's no tomorrow.

But they're not. Why is that?

Fernandinande said...

From 538.com:

That looked like a great article until I read: "For mass shootings, we used Mother Jones’s database of public mass shootings."

Mother Jones excludes around 97% to 98% of mass shooting from their database; see "Variation in How Mass Shootings Are Defined and Counted" above. Including only such a small amount makes their data worthless and misleading unless you're only concerned about the small percentage of mass murders which have unusual circumstances.

The MSM acts like it's worse for someone to kill four strangers than for someone to kill their own four children because it's more interesting and newsworthy to their news consumers.

Is it more newsworthy because most news consumers believe they don't associate with the type of people who would kill their own family members, i.e. them, so they're more concerned about the relatively rare stranger killings, mass or otherwise?

Mark said...

"I read a stat today (probably at Insty)"

So you didn't bother to investigate it's veracity nor link it, but you would like to have us mindlessly accept it as truth?

Hiw stupid are most people here?

buwaya said...

There are compromises.

One of them is for the government itself to arm and train the people, with modern military weapons, with the explicit intention and unambiguously stated purpose of facilitating an uprising against itself. That, after all, is the political purpose of the 2nd Amendment.

A Swiss-style system, though voluntary.

narciso said...

Persoective:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronWorthing/status/1158439153991868416

Original Mike said...

"So you didn't bother to investigate it's veracity nor link it, but you would like to have us mindlessly accept it as truth?"

I haven't accepted it as truth. Just made a statement.

gilbar said...

rcocean said...
Somehow the Guy who shot 6 Republican congressman wasn't a hater. Remember him? He was just a nut.


when did this supposedly happen?
Don't you think that IF something like that Really happened,it would have been in the papers?
</sarc

Szoszolo said...

"1) All the mass shootings happen precisely where the civilians are disarmed."

I don't disagree with your larger point, but El Paso's in an open-carry state. If Wal-Mart posts signs prohibiting open carry in their Texas stores, then you'd be right. Since Wal-mart still sells guns and ammo, that seems doubtful.

Re the NRA not giving an inch: I'm nearly at the point of supporting a rollback of almost all gun-control laws* because no matter what we give in to, it's never enough. All gun-control laws do is inconvenience law-abiding gun owners and gun-shop owners, and I'm tired of jumping through the ever-increasing number of hoops insisted on in my state.

*I'm okay with restrictions on full-automatic weapons.

narciso said...

it went down the memory hole, and the bureau weren't interested in investigating his contacts with duckworth and durbin,

narciso said...

furthermore el paso, is probably one of the least open carry cities, next to a no gun zone, it was a perfect shooting gallery for a so inclined psycho.

Sprezzatura said...

"(I'll trade more enhanced background checks for increased immigration control of dangerous criminals)."

DJT's trade isn't re criminals. It's re non-whites. BTW why doesn't he also ask for a law that makes women have sex with racist men?

Apparently, according to FreeH and others, there's more goin' on for folks like this con terrorist (and POTUS and many cons) who are worried about an invasion of non-whites messing w/ superiority re "culture" and such. If we are to follow the logic of FreeH (in another thread), and DJT continues to be an advocate re giving the con terrorist what the con terrorist wants: DJT should not only ask for the xenophobia that the con terrorist wanted (i.e. the xenophobia that DJT already wanted (but this is a chick/egg thing-y (who knows what came first?))).

Anywho, re FreeH logic and DJT's eager capitulation to racist con terrorists (again: the chick/egg Q) = the solution is to make a law that forces women to have sex with these racists, to civilize them (while still having DJT's racist inspired laws re non-white "invaders", too).


If you support a racist POS, you are a racist POS. IMHO.

Bruce Hayden said...

“*I'm okay with restrictions on full-automatic weapons.”

Maybe - if we were able to stop the flow of automatic weapons across our southern border. But since they come in with the illegal aliens and illegal drugs, it is going to be impossible to control the flow into this country, until those problems are adequately addressed.

It has been almost a quarter century since the civilian federal machine gun registry was closed. Since then, the only machine guns not on that registry coming into civilian hands were smuggled into this country by criminals.

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