August 11, 2019

"Inmates [on suicide watch] are often placed naked in suicide cells, which are usually bare concrete, often without bedding (to prevent hanging by using bedsheets)..."

"... and under frequent or continuous observation by guards. Unsanitary conditions are also common since toilet paper, underwear and tampons (all potential means of choking) are restricted. Being exposed without any way of covering oneself, coupled with being under constant observation, can aggravate mental distress, particularly if the inmate has been a victim of sexual abuse. These harsh conditions came to light in 1998 when Elizabeth B., an inmate of Framingham prison in Massachusetts, USA, called a radio talk show to describe how she had been treated while on suicide watch: 'I was ... put on eyeball status, stripped of belongings, clothing, placed naked in a room with nothing but a plastic mattress on the floor. Watched 24 hours a day by a man or woman. I was on my period but because of my status not allowed to have tampons or underwear. I was very humiliated, degraded. Being on eyeball status with male officers, my depression intensified. I didn't want to be violated any more than I already was, so I put the mattress up against the window. When I did that I was in violation because they couldn't see me. The door was forced open, I was physically restrained in four-point restraints - arms, legs spreadeagled, tied to the floor, naked, helmet on head, men and women in the room.'"

From the Wikipedia article "Suicide watch," which I'm reading this morning because I saw on Twitter that some people had been aggressively editing the page inserting references to Jeffrey Epstein. If you look at the revision history for the page, you'll see that a huge number of back-and-forth edits were made yesterday until the "protection level" of the page was raised.

I copied the text you see above because it may help understand why Jeffrey Epstein was not kept on suicide watch, even though he had (apparently) attempted suicide last month. The treatment is so severe that to continue it might be cruel and unusual punishment. It could be used to deliberately torment a prisoner.

108 comments:

Ignatius Acton Chesterton OCD said...

That’s why his attorney requested he be sent to SuperMax in Florence, CO.

Request denied, of course. Even though it’s part of the federal system.

tds said...

he should be on murder watch, not on suicide watch

Narayanan said...

Are the rules for the who and when Cruel and Neutral?

gilbar said...

has Anyone SEEN his body?

Darrell said...

The Feds use "pickle suits" for suicide watch. Naked is for weirdo public employees in Blue cities and States.

Fernandinande said...

why Jeffrey Epstein was not kept on suicide watch

Because he didn't want girls to see him naked? I don't think so!

gilbar said...

the GOOD NEWS is, now that he has committed 'suicide', there will be NO REASON for any further investigation into the rich and powerful pedophiles that almost made it into the news.
Now that Epstein is gone, "FOR THE GOOD OF ALL", they can just close this case.
Nothing to see here folks, just move along!

doctrev said...

Theoretically, a lawyer would know people within one degree of federal prisons. Guards, wardens, anyone. That is, unless they are so divorced from the reality of their work that they have no idea what criminals are being sentenced to. Maybe the average American is heavily influenced by wikis, word of mouth, and Orange is the New Black, but that's still a lot more worldly than the "legal professionals" who have no idea how a suicide watch works.

dreams said...

He was murdered, he didn't commit suicide.

gspencer said...

Not just New York, a lot of people wanted this man dead.

Explaining why the smiles were big & wide and why the liquor flowed freely at all those UES & Hamptons dinner parties last night.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Althouse carries water for Lolita Express frequent flier Clinton, the rapist she voted for. Careful, carrying that much water at your age and you are going to break a hip.

There is no fucking way that the highest profile prisoner in the whole fucking country who is about to spill his guts on a bunch of pedowood and democrat politicians including Althouse's crush Billy boy killed himself. As incompetent as government employees are, no chance. The Clinton's absolutely had him killed.

Leland said...

I committed yesterday, but I see this story really needs 72 hours. I do hope for an investigation.

Michael K said...

Nobody believes the federal story and this is a disaster for the country.

"Pravda explains Chernobyl."

David Begley said...

Best conspiracy theory yet is that JE faked his death. He’s alive and safe in Russia.

John henry said...

EXACTLY, Gilbar.

What reason do we have to think he is dead?

The press tells us he is?

Sheeeeeit!

The government tells us he's dead? Double Sheeeeeit.

Show us the body in the box. And even then I'll be skeptical.

Too many entities had means and motive for him to escape or be removed alive.

US government

Mossad

Clinton's et al

Royal family

Gislane Maxwell

Epstein himself

Show us the body.

John Henry

Bob Boyd said...

Harry Potter and the Suicide Watch

Bob Boyd said...

has Anyone SEEN his body?

They buried him at sea in accordance with the tenants of pedophilia.

Once written, twice... said...

Where is the accountability? The Federal Bureau of Prisons is a division of the U.S. Department of Justice. This was a major screw up of epic proportions. Attorney General William Barr and everyone below him should be hauled in front of congress and be held to account.

It is laughable that all of you Althouse Hillbillies are screaming Clinton when this happened under the watch of the Trump Justice Department.

Bay Area Guy said...

Have they reported HOW Epstein hanged himself? What precisely was the mechanism? Did he hide a pair of shoelaces in his crotch? Did he wind up his bedsheets into a rope/noose, throw one end over the rafters, and jump off a chair?

Inquiring minds wanna know how a 66-year old with $500 Milllion in assets, a team of powerful attorneys and a plausible legal defense (the non-prosecution agreement from federal prosecutors in Miami for his prior case) offed himself.

Birkel said...

I'm sure that's what Clinton's lawyers argued when they got him out of 24-hour surveillance.
/jokes

John henry said...

I had not thought of the Russians, David.

Add them and the Chinese to my list.

Think of what mischief they could get up to with the videos and other stuff he may have had.

John Henry

Bob Boyd said...

tenets

pacwest said...

Joy Reid at MSNBC intimated that Barr might have been involved. CNN was all over that saying what poor journalism it was and MSNBC needs standards. LOL.

What I saw was CNN trying to shift a shrinking audience of true believers to their network. Let the name calling and fighting for crumbs begin. Whee!

I haven't seen any of the Dem candidates weigh in yet. That should be interesting.

holdfast said...


Suicide_Watch_Definition/text

ga6 said...

Best quote so far:

"I was stunned by Epstein's suicide, though probably not as much as Epstein himself."
-John McAfee

John henry said...

And that brings another thought to my fertile mind.

Suppose he was killed? Question is by who.

If he had a deadman switch, where everything would come out if he died, who would benefit?

Someone who wanted the info to come out and didn't trust the govt not to cover it up.

No idea who that might be. One of the girls he abused? Someone that got screwed over by Billy oy hilly someone else?

John Henry

Laslo Spatula said...

A lot of people get their concept of 'suicide watch' from PornHub videos.

And it IS pretty accurate: the inmate is stripped naked and tied spread-eagle in the middle of a padded room.

They are degraded and humiliated.

Then the inmate realizes that the degradation and humiliation is incredibly sexy, and they don't want to die any more.

This part usually occurs when the guard with big tits in black leather finally gives the guy a blow-job, after thirty minutes of pegging.

Maybe Epstein just died from an unfortunate pegging accident.

I am Laslo.

Bob Boyd said...

Epstein's death was a rare and beautiful moment of bipartisanship, a coming together. We should feel encouraged that the unity official Washington claims to strive for is not entirely out of reach.

Fernandinande said...

"He’s alive and safe in Russia."

Bob Boyd said...

Harry Potter and the Unfortunate Pegging Accident

Sebastian said...

"it might be cruel and unusual punishment"

If you ignore the original public meaning of that phrase.

Drago said...

Once written: "It is laughable that all of you Althouse Hillbillies are screaming Clinton when this happened under the watch of the Trump Justice Department."

LOL

Yes! Lets also haul Trump up there to explain why he must have ordered the hoax collusion and hoax obstruction investigation into himself!!

Why did Trump allow such a thing?

Yep, Trump has a lot of explaining to do over why he nust have allowed such an abuse of power!

Too funny!

Really Once Written! An inspired blame-shift worthy of LLR Chuck!

Congratulations!

Koot Katmandu said...

Just one more issue causing lose of faith in american institutions.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Mary Jo Kopechne'd... a long dumbocrat tradition, you see. Probably already cremated too.
I'm so old I remember democrats could reasonably claim moral high ground. Whatta joke. I'm laughing all the way to the voting booth.

doctrev said...

William Barr is justifiably furious, probably because he knows a high-profile murder like this marks the end of the federal prison system's reliability. One more nail in the coffin of rule of law. $450 an hour lawyers are the only ones in the country stupid enough to bleat "but, but, but there's no evidence it was anything but a suicide! Look at Trump and his conspiracies!" Their dumber friends with national audiences are claiming it was Ze Russians, briefly forgetting that Vladimir Putin could barely pull this off in his own country, never mind succeed without help at all levels of the American criminal justice system. The CIA, FBI- both have been intensely hostile to Trump, had senior leadership involved in a wholly illegal coup to oust the President, and would enthusiastically report the slightest hint of this murder to Congress before ever agreeing to help him.

So absolute degenerate morons will try to scream that Bill Barr Must Be Impeached, when the fact is this is a death knell for the Deep State. You can't have complete control over investigations and the penal system without also taking complete blame.

tldr: Lol, yer fucked.

Drago said...

What are the odds we will see Bill Clinton in a neck-brace sometime this week?

John henry said...

Ibogaine?

Ibogaine is also called the zombie drug. It induces paralysis and slows body functions to a close appearance of death.

So, slip epstein a dose, he is found apparently dead, taken to hospital where a friendly doctor signs a death certificate. Swap his live body with a dead one put him in a hearse to the undertaker and Robert's your father's brother.

Of course it can be done. I saw it in a movie.

It's at least as plausible as suicide.

John Henry

David Begley said...

James Bond got into the MCC and killed JE. Had to protect Prince Andrew.

We need a new Warren Commission to look into this. And this Warren Commission is headed up by Elizabeth.

Laslo Spatula said...

I would've though Epstein was more experienced with pegging.

Of course, if your limbs are tied down and someone wants to kill you by pegging there's probably not much you can do about it.

I am Laslo.

dreams said...

And there is this.

"Jeffrey Epstein told prison guards and fellow inmates that he believed someone had tried to kill him in the weeks before his death, a source has revealed to DailyMail.com

The insider, who had seen the disgraced financier on several occasions during his incarceration at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, also claims that the normally reserved Epstein seemed to be in good spirits.
'There was no indication that he might try to take his own life,' the source told DailyMail.com

'From what I saw, he was finally starting to adjust to prison. I think he was comforted by the rigidity of his new life.'

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/08/uk_daily_mail_claims_epstein_was_not_despondent_told_guards_and_others_that_someone_had_tried_to_kill_him.html#ixzz5wIlEROJl

John henry said...

Shout out to Hunter Thompson and Fear and loathing on the campaign trail 1972

He claimed that Eagleton had been dosed with ibogaine and stashed in a closet. Wrote a rather Thompsonesque screed about it.

I thought he was making up ibogaine but looked it up in the Merck Index and it was a thing. I should have believed him. HT knew his drugs.

Batshit crazy but one hell of a writer.

John Henry

Lyle Smith said...

I imagine prison is cruel and tormenting. Should it be done away with?

Bob Boyd said...

I would've though Epstein was more experienced with pegging.

So...do you, like...build up a tolerance?
Asking for a friend.

Gojuplyr831@gmail.com said...

The investigation does not stop with his death. His wife (still living - at least for now), a woman who lined up young girls, and 4 of the abused girls are still talking. The girls have been naming names. Jeff may have avoided further punishment by dying, but the investigation can go on - IF those being named can't stop it. Big if there.

Wonder how many Hollywood elites are on Epstein's client list?????

John henry said...

You know who else was into both pegging and suicide?

Ernest Hemingway

According to hunter Thompson

John Henry

WK said...

Elizabeth B. was placed on suicide watch and it does sound terrible. And she was alive to describe it later.....

Anne in Rockwall, TX said...

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/08/10/someone-made-a-short-lived-edit-to-wikipedias-suicide-watch-page-saturday/

I lol'd!

Saint Croix said...

It's striking to me that somebody in the FBI is saying that Epstein committed suicide, but they're not willing to go on record. And how quickly they made this announcement. The body wasn't even cold.

He was found dead at 6:30 a.m. I'd like to know when the media found out.

From CNN...

No foul play is suspected in his death, a federal official told CNN.

What kind of idiot would say that? Off the record, the medical examiner hasn't even seen the body, and this is what you say?

The bureau's release called it "an apparent suicide," and said the FBI is investigating. Authorities believe Epstein hanged himself, a law enforcement source said.

It's like announcing that you are in charge of the cover-up. Did this idiot actually think he would be believed? Why would you say such a thing? Why not say, "We do not know how he died, we're investigating." That's what an honest person would say. Why would you issue your conclusion before you investigate? Unbelievably stupid.

daskol said...

I wouldn’t get too distracted with the suicide watch stuff, and it’s especially important to distinguish between protocols at different jails. Here’s a former inmate of MCC who says how unlikely it is is Epstein could have offed himself even in the unit he was in. While I don’t have firsthand experience of MCC, this is easy enough to believe if you’ve been in any high or even medium security facility. When an inmate needs a beating or worse, it’s typically arranged by a complicit guard, as everyone knows where there are gaps in the camera coverage. Somehow an inmate is left unsupervised there for a few moments where other inmates get to him. This was a brazen murder.

Matt Sablan said...

I want to know why people think, if there is a conspiracy, Trump is behind it, when he's... like one of the few people who publicly denounced Epstein. Like, I agree. Trump has done some scumbag things in his life. But, when it comes to the Lolita Express, he probably actually does have clean hands in that particular perversion.

doctrev said...

Matt, I'd argue that no one who isn't scum could survive in the DC cauldron. Jeff Sessions, for one, has barely touched on any of these truly heinous issues, preferring to focus on immigration (good) and pot (wtf?). Banning Backpage.com might have been Puritanism, but it might also have been a huge strike against illegal sex trafficking. We'll have to see.

Nonetheless, I'm open to literally any story that isn't "Jeff Epstein killed himself, what a very odd coincidence." He may even still be alive and being pumped for information by the Trump DoJ.

Wince said...

I'm going with Epstein Behind Bar Syndrome or Arkancide, rather than Epstein Bill Barr.

Epstein-Barr Virus
The Epstein–Barr virus... is one of eight known human herpesvirus types in the herpes family, and is one of the most common viruses in humans. It is best known as the cause of infectious mononucleosis.

Matt Sablan said...

I mean, I'm willing to believe the people watching him were incompetent enough to let him off himself. I won't be shocked if there's a CONSPIRACY involved, but, I also think that incompetence should not be ruled out.

David Begley said...

Check for Bitcoin payments to the so-called guards.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

The Clintons always benefit greatly by a well timed suicide or murder.
*Seth Rich unavailable for comment.

But don't you dare think about it, you conspiracy nuts.

Paul said...

Face it folks.... just like Socrates Epstein was given his hemlock. The powers-to-be left him in his bare cell with a bed sheet rope and walked away. He knew he had to fall on his own sword least they make his life, and maybe his family to, hell on earth in jail.

Now their secrets will stay buried along with Epstein.

Ken B said...

Why ask wiki and not the actual jail? Was that regime what he was under for a week?

FullMoon said...

The main thing is that the women witnesses are much more credible than the thousands who claimed Kavanaugh raped them.

And that these un named sources are more credible than the unnamed sources we do not believe when they are used by the WaPo and NYT to spread lies about Trump.

And that these virginal underage girls were kidnapped and forced to participate in wild parties with rich and famous people.

And that the accusers and the lawyers have nothing to gain by reopening case and then suing a billionaire for millions of dollars.

And that if rich and powerful people wanted him dead they would not have killed him years ago..

Of course, one would wonder why a rich guy would not take his chances getting off when he can hire the best lawyers.



rhhardin said...

Keeping an eye on naked suicide watch inmates is not likely to be a job sought out much, no matter what sexes are involved. Hours of bad tv.

Maybe outsource it to the internet.

Laslo Spatula said...

"Who's the naughty boy, tied all helpless on the floor?"

"Please, Guard Ilsa, just let me be..."

"But what's the fun in that, naughty boy? No: you need a taste of sweet... deviant justice."

"Please -- I don't think my ass can take any more sweet deviant justice..."

"Ah: your ass will soon welcome The Peg. It is your only salvation."

"I'll confess! I'll confess to everything, I'll tell names -- just please stop!"

"But today is the day for A Special Pegging".

"A... special pegging? Can't we just go back to the regular pegging? I don't think I'm ready for anything else..."

"Oh, you're ready, naughty boy. You know the rules: now say it."

"Please..."

"Say it!"

"OK, OK... I'm a naughty little girl, and I deserve The Peg."

"You're not convincing me..."

"I'm a naughty little girl, and I deserve The Peg!"

"Louder!"

"I'M A NAUGHTY LITTLE GIRL, AND I DESERVE THE PEG!"

"That's better. Remember? When you follow the rules I give you a little butter, first..."

"Oh sweet Lord, thank you for the butter..."

"See? You're beginning to appreciate the little things. Only through the pegging will your soul find peace."

"I will never find peace. I am a broken man..."

"Ah, but you have yet to be broken, you sorry boy. There is so much more in store for you..."

"Oh, death, where are you -- I cry for you to take me!"

"Don't be so melodramatic, little man. I always stop the peg a quarter-inch from death..."

I am Laslo.

roesch/voltaire said...

Hillary was seen trying to get up the steps to the jail but she shouldn't make it. Someone got there before her, but only the Barr knows who.

Birkel said...

Full Moon,
Epstein clearly took his chances about getting off.

The problem was the Clintons were not willing to take Epstein's chances about Bill's getting off.

Bob Boyd said...

Epstein clearly took his chances about getting off.

Which is how he got into all this trouble in the first place.

Bay Area Guy said...

The Andy McCarthy reminds us that, as part of his prior plea deal with the Feds, Epstein had a viable legal defense to these charges. Not saying he woulda won. Just saying Epstein's attorneys were preparing (albeit a tad too slow) the mother of all Motions to Dismiss, based on the sweetheart plea agreement, which incorporated a broad agreement not to prosecute.

Psycho cowards with $500 Million in assets, a stable of trial attorneys, and a viable legal defense, don't suddenly develop a conscious to hang themselves to morally repent for their misconduct.

Anyone think that OJ Simpson woulda hung himself in jail, when he coulda brazenly gutted it out?

LA_Bob said...

"Now their secrets will stay buried along with Epstein.

Epstein's death becomes yet another instance of American mystery/conspiracy lore. A few examples:

The trial of Lizzie Borden
The disappearance of Amelia Earhart
The disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa
The assassination of JFK

We'll speculate forever, but we'll never know the truth. Not even if someone "talks" Who would know if they can be believed?

Saint Croix said...

There was an explosion and a massive fire at Epstein's compound on "Pedophile Island." This happened back in January.

There are a lot of rich people with a lot to hide in this case.

What makes the FBI's assertion of suicide so stupid is that if Epstein was killed, it was someone in the government who did it. The only people who had access to the man were government officials.

Bay Area Guy said...

"We'll speculate forever, but we'll never know the truth. Not even if someone "talks" Who would know if they can be believed?"

Wouldn't a video camera either inside or outside Epstein's cell shed a little light on whether he was assisted or acted alone? He was a high profile prisoner, No? There was some strange prior attack on him two weeks ago, where he was found in the fetal position with marks on his neck, , No?

Yes, sometimes unexpected crazy shit happens. But let's not be naive that this catch-all explanation works for every scenario.

404 Page Not Found said...

It's murder, plain and simple, to protect the Clintons, and many other corrupt people.

If you can't see that, you are blind and stupid, perhaps willfully so.

Comanche Voter said...

Of course there's Arkancide--wherein anyone who has any dirt on the Clintons has a seriously shortened life expectancy.

But the looniest thing I've seen is a claim that a Talmudic group killed Epstein because he was a disgrace to Jews.

Set aside the Looney Tunes theories (including Arkancide). Here's a guy who supposedly attempted suicide two weeks before he actually succeeded in offing himself. Considering that he was a very high profile prisoner, one would think that some special precautions would be taken to ensure that he did not succeed in his second attempt.

Whatever--the Federal justice system winds up with more egg on its face.

doctrev said...

Matt Sablan said...
I mean, I'm willing to believe the people watching him were incompetent enough to let him off himself. I won't be shocked if there's a CONSPIRACY involved, but, I also think that incompetence should not be ruled out.

8/11/19, 10:05 AM

Incompetence only goes so far. Guards who are -truly- stupid and untrustworthy enough to muck up monitoring a high value billionaire should never have been on the door. Which means their supervisors are the ones guilty of criminal negligence. The warden. Basically this is a huge invitation for Bill Barr to drill down, HARD, on the entire apparatus of MCC. Now, a lot of nationalists think he might succeed because he's a competent Attorney General. I personally hope he fails. I want to see lawyers out in the street starving as the rule of law collapses entirely, trying and failing to market their smug pronouncements to the American people before being devoured by enraged partisans from both sides of the aisle.

Bill Barr succeeding in finding the real culprits behind this Epstein disaster is not the worst thing that can happen to liberal lawyers.

William said...

As Bob above points out, the only thing about this story that we can believe with full confidence is that we will never know the whole story.....Epstein seems to have gone from a life of fantastic luxury and sensuality into a life of nightmare harshness and deprivation. And that was to be his life forever. Of course, he was depressed....He was a resourceful and manipulative person. It's plausible that he committed suicide. It's plausible that there were people who allowed the guards to look the other way when he committed suicide. It's plausible that he was murdered.....Anyone who knows the full story has the example of Jeffrey Epstein in front of him as a warning as to why he should keep that story to himself.

effinayright said...

@John Henry

I saw a pic yesterday of Epstein from the neck up, eyes closed, on a gurney. Something (a vehicle, I think) obscured the rest of him.

You are free to believe it's a fake, or part of a plan Epstein was privy to, but....

FrankiM said...

“Bill Barr succeeding in finding the real culprits behind this Epstein disaster...”

Fat chance. Barr has reasons not find a thing.

Annie said...

From the people I know who work in a jail and a psych ward, the conditions are severe, but not humiliating. They are allowed 'jumpsuits' of a kind that would fall apart if you tried to hang yourself...no blankets, and the most important part, a guard who watches at all times. Flossing one's teeth is allowed but done with someone standing right there. Eating utensils are plastic and inventoried/removed after each meal. etc.

Yancey Ward said...

Elizabeth B is alive to tell her tale, isn't she? Wonder how that happened.

While I think it likely that Epstein killed himself, I do think it entirely possible and maybe even probable that things were arranged so that he could do so by someone working at that facility. That should be the second step of the investigation. However, do you want to know what really triggered my suspicions yesterday morning- it was that people were already telling media it was a suicide- literally an hour after he was declared dead. It was almost like someone was trying to create a narrative when it wasn't even possible to say with any certainty that he killed himself.

FullMoon said...

BIG NEWS:
Tom Arnold and Omarosa have the super dooper secret blackmail tapes from Epsteins extra secure hidden vault on his island.

Developing...

Yancey Ward said...

You don't need to take drastic actions to keep people from killing themselves- camera surveillance is sufficient- you just need somebody looking at the camera about every few minutes, which shouldn't be terribly difficult to do in a fucking prison cell.

Bob Boyd said...

Waiting for the media story that Epstein was taken off suicide watch due to Republican budget cuts.

daskol said...

Why would Epstein kill himself? What about his prior behavior makes that plausible?

FullMoon said...

FrankingaM said...

“Bill Barr succeeding in finding the real culprits behind this Epstein disaster...”

Fat chance. Barr has reasons not find a thing.

Keep hope alive,chubby, put Mueller on the case with unlimited budget.

Yancey Ward said...

And Bay Area Guy makes a good argument- why would Epstein kill himself at this point in time? It isn't like he had already been tried, convicted, and sentenced to prison- he should have, at the very least, entertained some hope that he would prevail and be released. I don't think he was going to be released, but I am only about 75% sure of that. It does seem odd that he chose this moment.

Yancey Ward said...

I see Inga is still clinging to hope that Trump was one of Epstein's sex buddies. Moron.

Michael K said...

Blogger FrankiM said...
“Bill Barr succeeding in finding the real culprits behind this Epstein disaster...”

Fat chance. Barr has reasons not find a thing.


Let's put Inga on the job. Of course, the Clintons are eliminated. Then Comey's daughter is the prosecutor so she should help.

I think you can solve this case, Inga, just like you solved the Russia Hoax.

Michael K said...

I saw a pic yesterday of Epstein from the neck up, eyes closed, on a gurney. Something (a vehicle, I think) obscured the rest of him.

I saw one of a gurney but no face.

rcocean said...

Everything short of 4-star hotel accommodations and breakfast in bed is "Cruel and unusual punishment". You need to do what you have to do to stop a suicide. Not getting underwear seems low on the list of "torture".

Matt Sablan said...

So. Uh. Someone was asking about cameras. A report I can't find again says they were off since he was no longer on suicide watch. I will concede this is a massive blow to my incompetent argument.

404 Page Not Found said...

"We'll speculate forever, but we'll never know the truth."

This is more vow than prediction, I think.

Drago said...

FrankiM: "Fat chance. Barr has reasons not find a thing."

You dont know what Barr knows!! The walls are closing in!!!

LOLOLOLOL

The "FrankiM/Inga" character is Roger Stones greatest anti-left dirty trick ev-ah!

LA_Bob said...

"A report I can't find again says they were off since he was no longer on suicide watch."

I recall seeing or hearing the same thing. Gosh, I guess prison budgets are so tight they can only run the cameras under special circumstances (like suicide watch), and then probably only for a little while.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Blogger wholelottasplainin' said...

I saw a pic yesterday of Epstein from the neck up, eyes closed, on a gurney. Something (a vehicle, I think) obscured the rest of him.

I suspect that I saw the same picture. I think it is the only picture.

The one I saw had a body on a gurney, covered with a blanket from neck down with most of the body obscured. Could have been a foot taller or shorter than Epstein though, even if we did see it, we probably don't know Epstein well enough to know if anything was wrong.

The head was exposed from the blanket (half his neck) to about the middle of his forehead. I think there was a blue hair cover on his head. In any event, something obscured above his forehead. He had a respirator on that covered his his mouth and nose. It was shot in profile of his left side.

It was also shot from a distance, 20-30 feet.

In other words, even someone who knows Epstein really well would not be able to tell if it was him or not.

Is this the photo you saw? If so, all we can say is that there appears to be a human body on a gurney. Probably a man. Could even be a manniquin. It appears to be motionless though, since it is a still photo, all the people handling the gurney appeared motionless.

Nope. Body in the box, profile and front photos. People with no direct interest in the case positively ID'ing him. Then I am willing to believe it might be him.

Now? We have absolutely no reason to believe it is him.

And really, would any of my scenarios (Mossad, USG, Clintons et al etc) be any weirder than him committing suicide?

In my movie they will use ibogaine for the motionless effect. Remember you heard it here first and if anyone steals my plot point, I will sue!

John Henry

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Blogger Bob Boyd said...

Waiting for the media story that Epstein was taken off suicide watch due to Republican budget cuts.

I did not see PDJT or the Repos named explicitly. I did see, yesterday morning a few hours after the alleged death, the head of the guard's union complaining that they are underpaid and understaffed. So close.

John Henry

FullMoon said...

Suicide can be an impulsive decision.

Neighbor marries woman he has been living with for a decade. Comes home from reception and kills himself. Don't know why.

Another neighbor has constant terrible headaches. Finally blows his head off in the backyard.


Another one upset over divorce kills himself while talking to wife in the driveway.

Each one used a gun, which makes it kinda hard to change your mind. Would imagine hanging and choking to death in a cell with no high place to dangle from would give a guy plenty of opportunity to reconsider.

Maybe erotic asphyxiation gone wrong a more likely scenario. Robin Williams style.

BTW, did Epstein have pen and paper in his cell?

Looking forward to some legitimate detail from named sources as opposed to "those close to the investigation"

El Supremo said...

Why not just let them have clothes and blankets, but keep someone close 24 hr a day. It sounds like someone is watching all the time anyway. You can't suddenly kill yourself with cloth or paper. This naked requirement is completely unnecessary, and I think is really used as a punishment and deterrent.

El Supremo said...

"I see Inga is still clinging to hope that Trump was one of Epstein's sex buddies."

That would just put him in the same company as many admired men of the left. Maybe it would make him more "Presidential" like Clinton.

Robert Cook said...

"The treatment is so severe that to continue it might be cruel and unusual punishment. It could be used to deliberately torment a prisoner."

Cruel and unusual punishment and deliberate tormenting of prisoners occurs ever day in prisons...in the U.S. no less than anywhere else. Look how TSA agents treat law-abiding travelers at U.S. airports. Is it credible to believe that persons convicted of crimes and placed in prisons are not subject to abuse as a matter of course?

doctrev said...

The Dems are screaming that Barr cannot be trusted with this case and he MUST recuse. Setting aside the certainty that Barr will tell them to get fucked, what do they expect to happen? When the AG documents all the failures that had to happen, and makes clear that this falls to criminal negligence which requires HEAVILY scrutinizing the guards and their families, do you think this is going to go away? Hell no.

It's not conservatives that are scared. Hell, I'm looking for the tells just to find liberals playacting as conservatives.

BUMBLE BEE said...

The gubmint had him under lock n key. What could go wrong? Anti 2nd amendment crowd hardest hit? Epstein = Michael Brown?

FullMoon said...

And really, would any of my scenarios (Mossad, USG, Clintons et al etc) be any weirder than him committing suicide?

Most likely m-15 , protecting Prince Andrew and the royal family.


FullMoon said...

I did see, yesterday morning a few hours after the alleged death, the head of the guard's union complaining that they are underpaid and understaffed.

Typical Federal union worker complaint.

Jim at said...

It is laughable that all of you Althouse Hillbillies are screaming Clinton when this happened under the watch of the Trump Justice Department.

Is laughable like Russia interfering with a Presidential election under the watch of the Obama Administration?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

“Is the Epstein case going to cause a problem [for confirmation hearings]?” Acosta had been asked. Acosta had explained, breezily, apparently, that back in the day he’d had just one meeting on the Epstein case. He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had “been told” to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta.

What does that mean?

Birkel said...

Robert Cook is a laboratory creation.
He's the perfect useful idiot.

narciso said...

catching up from earlier,


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/08/knives_rifles_and_a_suicide.html

RigelDog said...

Most suicide watches aren't so severe. The ones in prison I have some knowledge of involve measures such as no shoelaces, plastic utensils that are immediately removed,guard rotation set to check in at various intervals such as every 15 or 30 minutes.

Robert Cook said...

"Robert Cook is a laboratory creation.
He's the perfect useful idiot."


So...which is it? Do you deny that prisoners are abused in prison, or do you approve of the abuse as their just desserts?

walter said...

David Begley said...Best conspiracy theory yet is that JE faked his death. He’s alive and safe in Russia.
--
Plus facial re-configuring surgery = mo' bettah

I see Laslo has this scenario pegged.

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