August 11, 2019

"Jeffrey Epstein... was supposed to have been checked by guards every 30 minutes, but that procedure was not being followed the night before he was found [dead]..."

"... a law-enforcement official with knowledge of his detention said. In addition, the jail had transferred his cellmate and allowed Mr. Epstein to be housed alone in a cell just two weeks after he had been taken off suicide watch, a decision that also violated the jail’s normal procedure, two officials said. The disclosures about apparent failures in Mr. Epstein’s detention at the Metropolitan Correctional Center deepened questions about his suicide and are very likely to be the focus of inquiries by the Justice Department and the F.B.I.... The federal Bureau of Prisons has already come under intense criticism for not keeping Mr. Epstein under a suicide watch after he had been found in his cell on July 23 with injuries that suggested that he had tried to kill himself. A person with knowledge of the investigation said that when the decision was made to remove Mr. Epstein from suicide watch, the jail informed the Justice Department that Mr. Epstein would have a cellmate and that a guard 'would look into his cell' every 30 minutes. But that was apparently not done, the person said.... Mr. Epstein’s suicide has also unleashed a torrent of unfounded conspiracy theories online, with people suggesting, without evidence, that Mr. Epstein was killed to keep him from incriminating others...."

The NYT reports this morning in "Epstein Was Left Alone and Not Closely Monitored Before Jail Suicide/The disclosures about apparent failures in Jeffrey Epstein’s detention deepened the questions about his suicide."

Are the conspiracy theories "unfounded"? I've noticed that the NYT seems to be trying to squelch any doubt that Epstein killed himself (and killed himself without any support/encouragement from anyone else). There are no comments allowed on this new article, and I noticed that an earlier NYT article about the Epstein death had a lot of comments, and the highly rated ones doubted that it was suicide.

Compare The Washington Post, where the top headline on the home page is: "Questions mount over Epstein’s apparent suicide." The NYT doesn't have "apparent" before suicide and doesn't use a generic, conspiracy-supporting phrase like "Questions mount." The NYT directs us to think that the questions should be about prison procedures and overworked prison staff.

If you click through on the WaPo front-page teaser, the headline is: "Jeffrey Epstein dead after ‘apparent suicide’ in New York." Excerpt:
Last month, Epstein was found in his cell with marks around his neck, and authorities were trying to determine whether he was attacked or attempted suicide. A person familiar with the matter said Epstein was placed on suicide watch — which meant he was subject to near constant monitoring and daily psychiatric evaluations — after that. But he was taken off suicide watch after about a week, this person said. He showed no obvious signs of distress at a July 31 court hearing and, in recent weeks, had been meeting with his lawyers for up to 12 hours a day to discuss his case, the person said.

People close to Epstein, noting that he seemed recently to be in good spirits, were surprised by reports of suicide, according to one person familiar with their discussions Saturday, and expressed concern about the possibility of foul play. His attorneys are seeking to learn from authorities how Epstein’s body was found and how such an incident could have happened, this person said....

Epstein’s death comes less than 24 hours after a court unsealed a huge cache of records, laying out disturbing details about Epstein’s alleged activities and the people in his orbit who might have observed them....
WaPo doesn't say the conspiracy theories are "unfounded." It makes me feel that the conspiracy theories are at least a little well-founded. In fact, the NYT's eagerness to squelch conspiracy ideas and its omission of "apparent" before suicide make me feel more suspicious of the idea that it was nothing but a suicide.

BUT: WaPo doesn't like conspiracy-thinking coming from Trump. There's "Trump retweets conspiracy theory tying Clintons to Epstein’s death."

The corresponding story in the NYT is: "Trump Shares Unfounded Fringe Theory About Epstein and Clintons." There's that word "unfounded" again.

103 comments:

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Hillary "We need evidence based____________"

Evidence based. Need evidence.

MSM picks the evidence it needs for the narrative.
2+ years of Adam Schitt's(d) non-evidence "walls are closing in" is OK, tho.

Sprezzatura said...

Seems like DJT could help here. Now that he stopped rich folks from killing deplorables, solve this Clinton crime.

tim maguire said...

I have a high tolerance for Trump’s silly tweets, but I am bothered by his retweet of the Clinton conspiracy. A sitting president, even Trump, should not be doing that.

I have a low tolerance for Times hectoring, but it would be difficult for me to think less of them so they get a pass.

Ambrose said...

They love the "without evidence" line - as it it means the end of all inquiries.

Oso Negro said...

Daily Mail ran the "XOXO Hillary and Bill" photo.

gilbar said...

Well, procedures MUST be NOT followed, if we want to allow people to 'suicide'

Martin said...

If the NYT says "unfounded," I take that as a data point suggesting "well-founded."

CWJ said...

"Mr. Epstein’s suicide has also unleashed a torrent of unfounded conspiracy theories online, with people suggesting, without evidence, that Mr. Epstein was killed to keep him from incriminating others...."

Take out "unfounded" and "without evidence" and the sentence reads just fine. In fact, it's a better "newspaper sentence" of the old style. Althouse is correct. Those words were included solely to push a specific interpretation.

rcocean said...

Trump's "Silly Tweets" are the only push-back against the liberal-left-wing narrative. OR maybe can rely on Mitch McConnell or National Review to defend Trump.

It is amazing in the age of 24/7 cameras and surveillance and being on a "suicide watch" a man was able to hang himself. You'd think the NO. 1 thing you'd do on "Suicide Watch" is take anything out of his cell that could be used to kill himself. Sharp objects, things that could be used to hang yourself, etc.

But not done. Mysteriously. Funny how Vince Foster also died "mysteriously". Even Buddy the Dog died Mysteriously. Everyone who dies and has a Clinton connection never dies without some "how did that happen?" controversy.

Wince said...

Angel Ureña, a spokesman for the former president [Clinton], called the conspiracy theory "ridiculous, and of course not true."
"And Donald Trump knows it," Ureña tweeted.


"Angel, strangers in the house."

0_0 said...

How dare the People raise questions!

FrankiM said...

Who ordered procedures not to be followed? Investigate it to the very top.

Saint Croix said...

"I was appalled to learn that Jeffrey Epstein was found dead early this morning from an apparent suicide while in federal custody. Mr. Epstein's death raises serious questions that must be answered," Barr said in a statement. "In addition to the FBI's investigation, I have consulted with the Inspector General who is opening an investigation into the circumstances of Mr. Epstein's death."

I'm a big fan of WIlliam Barr. He's opened not one, but two investigations into Epstein's death.

Meanwhile, CNN is still peddling that anonymous claim that Epstein died by suicide.

It's so striking, the difference in attitude between the person on the record, and what people are saying off the record.

On the record? HIs death is appalling and suspicious.

Off the record? It's a suicide. Nothing to see here. No sign of foul play. Don't quote me.

Michael K said...

Once Adam Schiff reveals all the evidence he has on Trump maybe he can go to work on Epstein.

Meade said...

Harry Potter and the Jeffery Epstein Autopsy Report

William said...

I'm not sure where the press stands on the Epstein scandal. Maybe their views are not monolithic or maybe they're still forming....There have been incidents in the past where they ignored or suppressed the facts. JFK's sexcapades and the homicide of Mary Jo Kopechne spring to mind.....Katie Couric and George Stephenopoulos went to a party celebrating Epstein's earlier get out of jail. That tells you something about the press. Katie and George were not pilloried in the press for attending that party. That tells you something else about the press.

doctrev said...

The NYT is ridiculous on steroids if they think -anyone- is convinced by "Donald Trump claimed, without evidence, that this wasn't an obvious suicide brought on by the incompetence of the AG." They think it's decisively shutting down the investigation. The rest of the planet sees it as pure Baghdad Bobbery.

William said...

I'll bet money that nothing substantive will come from any of the investigations. There is no accountability anywhere in the public sector, from the local county council up to and including the White House, the Congress and the Supreme Court. They don't care if they are inept, and they know that we the people are powerless to do anything about any ball that they drop.

Hagar said...

"Suicide watch" of the extreme kind described in the previous post seems geared to the drunks and junkies swept up from the streets in the night and still higher than kites or in the depths of withdrawal. MCC NY does not do that kind of policing.

Jeffrey Epstein's career, besides his pedophilia, seems to be that of a sociopathic confidence trickster. It is not beyond belief that he managed to talk a guard into letting something pass.

daskol said...

The WaPo appears to be reporting the story, while NYT is trying to direct the narrative. They have a social responsibility to other conspiratorially minded people, and news events are all teachable moments. Besides the poor track records of our major news organs, the deep involvement of American establishment figures in Epstein’s sex life suggests that the foreign press will be a better source for facts in the near term. If you want facts, that is. If you want the truth, check the NYT.

FullMoon said...

Have yet to see details of hanging, and definitive statement as to whether he was on suicide watch,or not.

As to him being in good spirits, maybe because he made the decision to end it.

Another question, was he allowed visitors other than his lawyers? Only ask because I keep reading "people close to him said he seemed to be in good spirits". Who are these un named people?

Big Mike said...

Mr. Epstein’s suicide has also unleashed a torrent of unfounded conspiracy theories online, with people suggesting, without evidence, that Mr. Epstein was killed to keep him from incriminating others....

There’s a difference between “no evidence” and “we are desperately trying to avoid even the appearance of looking for evidence.”

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

If I find out one more piece of dirt on the Clintons

...I'm going to kill myself.

FullMoon said...

Anybody looking into McCabe, Ohr, Strozk, connections to Epstein? Fusion GPS? Christopher Steele?

TJM said...

Sounds like Arkancide

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

I'm a big fan of WIlliam Barr. He's opened not one, but two investigations into Epstein's death.

Color me skeptical. Didn't we just learn when Sessions appointment of a special prosecutor and IG to investigate the Russian hoax, that the DOJ stands down while the IG investigates.

Barr just let Comey off of criminal charges. Do you think Mueller's band of angry Democrats would have given anyone a pass. Or do you think they would use a weak indictment to get someone to cooperate.

Amexpat said...

There are three possibilities. Epstein was directly killed. Orders were given to not interfere if Epstein tried to kill himself. Epstein was smarter and better organized than the prison guards and managed to find a way to kill himself.

I'd bet even money on the third possibility, but wouldn't be surprised if it were either of the first two.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

If I find out one more piece of dirt on the Clintons

...I'm going to kill myself.


For the record, I have absolutely zero dirt on the Clintons and/or the DNC.

FullMoon said...

Not crazy. Just think, people like FrankingaM believe this stuff. Goes well with Russian prostitutes urinating on a hotel bed. :

"The lawsuit said that Trump repeatedly initiated sexual contact with the plaintiff, then on the fourth encounter at one of Epstein's parties, tied her to a bed, exposed himself, and "forcibly raped" her." During the course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but with no effect," the document alleges. Trump allegedly responded to her pleas by violently striking her in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted."

https://life.shared.com/donald-trump-raped-me-at-epsteins-parties-s-13-year-old

MayBee said...

Ever since they told me it took a conspiracy theorist to think there was something wrong with Hillary Clinton's health the week before she passed out at the 9/11 services and got chucked into a minivan, I've come to believe the more they tell me it's a conspiracy theory, the more credence I give it.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

I've always thought that it's better not to indulge in conspiracy theories, even if they ultimately turn out to be true. That way lies madness.

In Epstein's case, I'll make an exception. He was murdered, no question. Possibly murder by suicide, but murder nonetheless.

Ken B said...

Maybe Abe Reles jumped.

Yancey Ward said...

Of course the NYTimes is pushing suicide as the confirmed cause- everyone knows what kinds of people had the most to lose if Epstein ever cooperated in building cases against his acquaintances.

I do think it was suicide, but I don't see that anyone has proven this yet.

n.n said...

Pedophilia is social progress too far. He was no longer viable.

glenn said...

The pimp Epstein’s “suicide” is a warning to his accusers, customers, and enablers. “We’ll do this to one of the most famous people is the US. Think what we’ll do to you, and keep your mouth shut”. When names like Mitchell and Richardson show up you know people with real power and influence aren’t far behind.

FrankiM said...

“Barr just let Comey off of criminal charges.”

I’m still waiting for all those Democrats to be perp walked (over the water!) to GITMO.

ussmidway said...

Imagine a scenario where he is promised that if he never leaves his cell alive, and therefore never testifies, certain things will happen that matter to him on the outside. Maybe his kids will be protected or his brother kept out of court. All he has to do is succeed with his suicide. He would have no leverage to enforce these outcomes, but he had few cards left to play and this way out has a degree of honor that might have appealed to him. No data to support this, but plausible nonetheless.

wildswan said...

Notice how we still don't know how Epstein died? I mean did he supposedly hang himself or take poison or choke himself? There's no facts except he's dead - according to the NYC ME. No funeral scheduled. No will produced. No sorrowing relatives or friends. Only one thing has happened for sure. The case in which he was a defendant is over without any testimony.

Leslie Graves said...

Jeffrey Epstein's fate has had the benefit of uniting folks from the left, right and center in thinking the same thing, which is, "Suicide? Hmmmmmm. Not so sure about that." It's been a long time that there has been even that much unanimity.

buwaya said...

glenn's point is very plausible.

The cost-benefit calculation on this may well have turned on its value as encouragement to the others who know something. A reinforcement of omerta.

Its interesting, this assumption that the traditions of the mafiosi are peculiar to them, that it is some Sicilian thing. This is certainly not true. The American mafia was only coincidentally Italian-Sicilian. In fact it was an equal-opportunity set of enterprises, as Jewish and Irish as Italian, or others too - the Kansas City Pendergast machine was part of the network.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Epstein was a rich man--

...are you sure this wasnt a botched robbery?

Clark said...

The two meanings of the word "apparent": It can mean something like "obviously true"; it can also mean "appears to be true but may very well not be true." In the current context, the two meanings are almost opposites.

Here is a tweet by a Washington Post reporter (whose work (the reporter's, not the paper's) usually tends in the direction of trying to get at what is really going on): "Trump promotes a baseless conspiracy theory surrounding Epstein's death—an assertion that also contradicted comments from his own DOJ that called it an apparent suicide" [with link to WP article].

She (Seung Min Kim) is getting the meaning of "apparent," in this context, wrong. She usually does better than this.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

In case Inga is struggling to make a coherent argument. Scratch that, she always struggles and seldom succeeds.

In case she needs to know what to say, you could do worse than these talking points from Shareblue.com These are for "Stalwarts only" but Jim Hoft got a copy over at Gateway Pundit The Shareblue.com site comes up but the page in the memo gives a 404.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/democrat-panic-after-epstein-suicide-one-day-after-top-democrats-linked-to-his-pedo-sex-ring-shareblue-issues-urgent-talking-points/

So Inga, if you don't know the proper line yet, here you go:


Do Not:

1. Deny the possibility of foul play

2. Excuse Epstein his political crimes, or doubt the validity of his guilt

3. Link to the current court documents regarding Epstein or use them in constructing your argument
your argument

Do

1. Sympathize with the potential victims of Epstein

2. Remind people of the prior allegations against President Trump (Talk Subject 14G)

3. Remind people of Trump's prior quotes regarding Epstein and their proven interactions together (Talk Subject 34 - live article currently bare bones

4. Remind people of the power that the President of the United States holds in comparison to members of the public

5. As always, ROLCON

One of the things I find interesting is that they do not seem to believe in the bedrock principle of innocent until proven guilty. See Point 3 of the do nots

Excuse Epstein his political crimes, or doubt the validity of his guilt

I am also curious what political crimes Epstein is alleged to have committed. Anyone know? Inga, this is your beat can you help a brother out here?

John Henry

Yancey Ward said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mockturtle said...

So the camera to his cell had 'malfunctioned' during the period of his death? Folks, this script is writing itself.

Hari said...

"A person with knowledge of the investigation said that when the decision was made to remove Mr. Epstein from suicide watch, the jail informed the Justice Department that Mr. Epstein would have a cellmate and that a guard 'would look into his cell' every 30 minutes. "

In addition to the guards not checking in on him every 30 minutes, it would appear that Epstein also did not have a cellmate.

Fernandinande said...

Angel Ureña

Shouldn't that be "Angel the Ureña"?

Unknown said...

Now why would you be suspicious of a NYTimes agenda? I’m confused?

Francisco D said...

Barr just let Comey off of criminal charges.

Not quite right, Bill.

Barr did not prosecute Comey for giving his notes to a friend - the incident that kicked off the Mueller appointment. Comey could make a good argument to a jury that the notes were not a work products and not property of the FBI. If he got off at trial, further prosecution would be extremely difficult.

doctrev said...

Barr hasn't acted on Comey's lawbreaking -yet-. There's always the possibility he can tack it onto the long list of charges Comey faces in other investigations. I'm not concerned, either way.

RobinGoodfellow said...

“with people suggesting, without evidence, that Mr. Epstein was killed to keep him from incriminating others ...”

I love the “without evidence”, which is cropping up all over the news.

Isn’t the job of modern journalist to present things “without evidence”? Anytime an anonymous source or unnamed source is quoted, I don’t for a moment believe that he presented any backup documentation with his allegations.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

They needed Seth Rich dead. He was dead.

They needed Epstein dead. He's dead.

Via Drudge:
Former MCC inmate: There’s ‘no way’ Jeffrey Epstein killed himself

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

"without evidence" is Clinton speak itself.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The media will lie to you about Ferguson, and Trump and any story they want to lie about - they will manufacture evidence to fit the narrative.

tds said...

"A person with knowledge of the investigation said that when the decision was made to remove Mr. Epstein from suicide watch, the jail informed the Justice Department that Mr. Epstein would have a cellmate and that a guard 'would look into his cell' every 30 minutes. "

This sounds interestingly close to "mistakes were made" which has its own page on Wikipedia.

Dave Begley said...

I say the two guards were bribed. The FBI needs to check for cyptocurrency accounts owned by them. Or I'd pay them in diamonds or gold.

They'll take the Fifth in any investigation. Or just admit they were negligent and over-worked. They keep their jobs. And in 5 years they move to Costa Rica.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

anyone know the tensile strength of credulity?

Dave Begley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

They needed Seth Rich dead. He was dead.

I wonder how much the family got to keep their mouths shut ?

Mary Joe's family only got $60,000., which was not too bad in 1969 but seems cheap.

Dave Begley said...

Now Bill Clinton is in the clear.

This is what I think happens in the Dem race for President. Biden has about 30%, but 70% want someone else. KH wins the West Coast and SC primaries. Biden wins some Southern states. Bernie will always have his 15-20%. Same with Warren. No majority going into the convention. The Dems "reformed" the delegate selection method after 2016.

So, it will be up to the delegates to select the nominee. Steven Bannon said today that he thinks Hillary, Bloomberg and Michelle Obama might get drafted. The Obamas have their big money Hollywood deals. People don't know Bloomberg. Hillary, however, was cheated out of her victory over Trump by the Russians! She's tanned and rested. Easy to run a three month campaign against the racist Trump and win.

I'm not saying that the Clintons had JE killed, but it helps Hillary in her third run for POTUS.

Dave Begley said...

I know Seth Rich's dad. I can't imagine him taking a payoff.

Michael K said...

Steven Bannon said today that he thinks Hillary, Bloomberg and Michelle Obama might get drafted.

I agree about Hillary but I'm not sure she is healthy,. Too much chardonnay is not good for tribe. As Warren would say.

Michael K said...

Blogger Dave Begley said...
I know Seth Rich's dad. I can't imagine him taking a payoff.


Lied to? I would like to know what happened to the GW resident who was barred from ICU.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Dr K-
More pics lately of Cankle's 'roving eye' (different from Bill's)
Parkinson's meds?

YoungHegelian said...

Why is it nut-job conspiracy theory to think that a convict got murdered in prison on orders from the Outside? My understanding is that such things happen regularly among gangsters (e.g. Whitey Bulger).

Of all of Jeffrey Epstein's fellow perverts & blackmail victims, many men in positions of wealth & power, we're supposed to think that none of them had the wherewithal to either help "nudge" Epstein towards suicide or actually have him murdered? Really?

I've always heard that child molesters are on the bottom (so as to speak) of the prison hierarchy, and that they're often abused by the other inmates. Maybe, this was just an inside job by some inmate whose beloved sister had been the target of sexual abuse when he was growing up, and he just hated pedophiles with a deep, profound hatred. Here was Epstein, a pedophile who was rich & powerful & got away with it for years. The inmate saw his chance to see "justice" finally done, and took it.

narciso said...

isn't it striking, how no major paper not the times the journal or the post addresses the guiffre deposition, Bloomberg and the daily beast has, but you would think it were news worthy,

mockturtle said...

Seth Rich's parents were concerned for the safety of their other son, Aaron, who had also been similarly involved. Can't say I blame them.

mockturtle said...

Another reason to disbelieve the suicide story is the character of Epstein, himself. Narcissistic sociopaths don't typically harm themselves.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

How could any sane person doubt the corruption on the left?

Craig said...

It's clearly a ruptured spleen secondary to Epstein-Barr Syndrome. Where's the coroner. Do an autopsy.

Michael K said...

It's clearly a ruptured spleen secondary to Epstein-Barr Syndrome

I've seen a couple. Not from Bill, though.

I see see one from vigorous intercourse in a patient who had EB

Known Unknown said...

"Take out "unfounded" and "without evidence" and the sentence reads just fine. In fact, it's a better "newspaper sentence" of the old style. Althouse is correct. Those words were included solely to push a specific interpretation."

Apparently, the editors there are too dumb to realize the words "conspiracy theory" are loaded enough to include the idea of being unfounded and without evidence, but couldn't help but double down.

Bay Area Guy said...

Some wisdom from The Godfather (Vito Corleone meets with the 5 Mob families):

Tattaglia: But I must have strict assurance from Corleone. As time goes by and his position becomes stronger, will he attempt any individual vendetta?

Don Barzini: Look, we are all reasonable men here. We don't have to give assurances as if we were lawyers.

Don Corleone: You talk about vengeance. Is vengeance gonna bring your son back to you and my boy to me? I forgot all the vengeance in my son. But I have selfish reasons. [after saying that Michael is returning to the U.S.] I'm a superstitious man, and if some unlucky accident should befall him, if he should get shot in the head by a police officer, or if he should hang himself in his jail cell, or if he's struck by a bolt of lightning, then I'm going to blame some of the people in this room. And that, I do not forgive. But that aside, let me say that I swear on the souls of my grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace that we have made here today.

Saint Croix said...

KH wins the West Coast and SC primaries.

Biden will win South Carolina. He's polling three times higher than Kamala in SC.

Birkel said...

Saint Croix is correct.
Biden rolls up delegates all across the South.
His fake authenticity plays better than the other candidates' real inauthenticity.

Noodle that out, I dare ya!

h said...

The Clinton Death List conspiracy meme is not the only conspiracy going here. Washington Post commenters are nearly unanimous that Epstein did not commit suicide and that his death was the result of nefarious acts by Trump and Barr. (Details a little unclear, but Trump/Barr having authority over bureau of prisons did something -- send in the underpants gnomes??-- that resulted in a murder that was made to look like a suicide. (Or weaker version that bureau of prisons personnel acting on instructions from above facilitated the suicide by providing the rope/sheet/belt and turning off lights or cameras.) Trump (according to this theory) is worried that the Epstein trial would bring new attention to a claim that in 1994 Trump raped a 13 year old at an Epstein party. As far as I can tell, no one can explain why, if this was the Trump Barr agenda, they ever let the Southern District of NY bring the new action against Epstein in the first place.

Clyde said...

Hell, we don't even know if he's even really dead or not. All we have is their say-so on the matter, and at this point, I don't trust anyone involved in reporting the story, from the so-called "Justice Department" to the mainstream media. Have we seen any pictures of the body? "Oh, no," you say, "that would violate privacy laws and would be in bad taste." Riiiiiiiight. Besides, in this day and age of "deep fakes," the powers that be could easily fake pictures of his alleged corpse.

He (or someone else) may have paid to have him spirited off to some secluded location to live out his days outside of the gimlet eye of the judicial system. It would not surprise me in the least. We used to be a high-trust society, but the people in power have lied to us too often for that to be the case any more. Trust is for the rubes.

Nichevo said...

mockturtle said...
Another reason to disbelieve the suicide story is the character of Epstein, himself. Narcissistic sociopaths don't typically harm themselves.

8/11/19, 2:39 PM


He was going to have his head and his nutsack cryogenically preserved. He sought immortality. He would never suicide. Unless maybe somebody dumped half a pound of Prozac in his bologna sandwich. No, this stinks to high heaven.

Maillard Reactionary said...

The Epstein suicide tale reminds me of a boldface warning statement I saw once on a good-sized fishing lure with trebles on the front and back of it:

"DO NOT SWALLOW"

Those with dirty minds can insert their own joke here.

Meade said...

“Noodle that out. I dare ya.”

Is it like the old quip: “Sincerity is everything. If you can fake that, you've got it made”

MikeR said...

"Foul play". How about enabling him to commit suicide himself? Win-win.

Matt Sablan said...

"So the camera to his cell had 'malfunctioned' during the period of his death? Folks, this script is writing itself."

-- I'm sorry, I'm really, really trying to be a Scully here, but I think Mulder is going to win out.

Churchy LaFemme: said...

So, at the time of his death, Epstein had never been to trial, and was presumed innocent. Does that factor into the prision regime? It seems like it should. Do people in pre-trial detention have it a little easier? Could that be a factor?

Francisco D said...

Trump had Epstein murdered. He wants all the details on the Clinton connections to come out with an intensive investigation

I swear it's true. Read about it on Media Matters

n.n said...

He may have self-aborted. However, there were diverse compelling interests, foreign and domestic, to abort him. Well, it's not Turkey, and he's not a low risk, insignificant target. Social progress of the pedophile kind will not soon be tolerated, let alone normalized. His persistent viability was a real risk to the liberal elites who choose to indulge their socially deviant sexual appetites.

Ambrose said...

"I've noticed that the NYT seems to be trying to squelch any doubt that Epstein killed himself (and killed himself without any support/encouragement from anyone else). "

There is also a companion op ed piece that tries hard to paint all the conspiracy theories as exclusively right-wing nonsense.

JamesB.BKK said...

If the Trump tweets are silly and unhelpful how could they be guaranteed to capture a whole cycle of Dems and press (but I repeat) going on about the subject or their spinoff tangent, usually defending something gross or attacking something many folks support. I just wish Trump would tweet in favor of taxation of extraterritorial income and FATCA.

bgates said...

people suggesting, without evidence, [other than the corpse], that Mr. Epstein was killed

Cmon, NYT, this movie was on basic cable three times a week for twenty years.

StephenFearby said...



"...Bureau of Prison officials said it is standard procedure for guards in protective housing units to check on inmates every half-hour.

It remained unclear why that procedure was not followed in Mr. Epstein’s case. Like many federal prisons and detention centers, the jail has been short staffed for some time, union leaders have said.

The two guards on duty in the protective housing unit where Mr. Epstein was housed were both working overtime, the prison official with knowledge of the incident said.

One of the corrections officers was working his fifth straight day of overtime, while the other officer had been forced to work overtime, the official said."

"...[Eric Young, president of the national council of union locals that represents guards at the Metropolitan Correctional Center], said overnight checks in the protective unit are typically done every 30 minutes, but sometimes the schedule varies a bit, so that inmates cannot precisely predict when guards will come by their cells.

Mr. Young would not discuss whether the two guards on duty at the time of Mr. Epstein’s death were doing regular checks on him."

Creating a logical inference that they weren't.

The leak to the NYT is consistent with an attempt by prison management to deflect blame for their lack of supervision of the guard's routines by claiming that the guards had to work overtime because the the prison was understaffed. Hence they may have been sleeping or watching porn instead of making their rounds.

Hoping to create the inference that the problem wouldn't have happened if they weren't so understaffed.

A pathetic CYA attempt to blame the people responsible for the prison being understaffed.

JamesB.BKK said...

A US govt prison guard working overtime in NY City must be pulling down 60 or 70 bucks an hour before taxes while racking up sick pension accruals and paid vacation days, unless it's one of those privatized jobs - which is assumed not to be the case here or that would have been the crux of the NYT's tale / excuse narrative erection.

Paul said...

Just in....' There’s no video of Jeffrey Epstein’s apparent suicide: sources."

Ops... just off suicide watch... guards just happen to not check his cell (and he being a high profile case.)

Yea suicide... sure buddy.

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

I'll bet money that nothing substantive will come from any of the investigations. There is no accountability anywhere in the public sector, from the local county council up to and including the White House, the Congress and the Supreme Court. They don't care if they are inept, and they know that we the people are powerless to do anything about any ball that they drop.

William nailed it at 11:20. If corruption among the powerful is the problem, the ONLY answer is to decrease the power. Reduce the decisions entrusted to government, or stop complaining about it. Hammond; card carrying Libertarian

Narayanan said...

So the antonym for
process p(e)r/o/secution

Is

Process ex(cus)/plan/ation.

Since there is no video what about a picture - how the dead body was presented in the cell

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JAORE said...

I read the NYT yesterday to see if there was unbiased reporting. It was unfounded.

Pianoman said...

Conspiracy theories regarding Jeffrey Epstein are completely unfounded, and would only be believed by idiots.

But conspiracy theories regarding Trump are obviously true, and grounds for impeachment.

"Not all conspiracy theories are created equal" -- Not Animal Farm

PM said...

Went out like a good Roman.

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I am not going to trust ANYTHING that comes from ANY governmental body, be it local, state or federal, concerning Epstein or Epstein’s death. That includes Trump or anyone in his administration. For me from here on out nothing is credible that has any official source.

I am certain that Epstein was murdered, either by direct means (because it’s more certain) or by purposeful neglect of his safety and custodial supervision, thus allowing him to kill himself. My money would be on the age-old technique of poisoning, many of which mimic natural causes and leave no trace. Allowing him to hang himself depends too much on Epstein himself.

Epstein will eventually be found to have died from either undetermined causes, natural causes or to have committed suicide. There may be an official Kabuki dance of appointments, investigations, commissions and hearings, all of which will take a long time and reveal nothing of importance, all with simple incompetence of the prison staff as the theme. A scapegoat(s) may eventually be written into the narrative, no one above the lower echelons, of course.

Whoever caused this to happen does not care that the crime is obvious. In fact, the crime’s very blatancy is a message, chilling in it’s meaning: If you testify truthfully you will die. Nothing can protect you.

The mainstream news cycle has already moved on. The star witness to probably the biggest potential scandal of our lifetimes died while in custody and the MSM could seemingly care less. If I were one of the women who were recruited and molested as a child by way of Epstein’s extortion and blackmail ring there is no way I testify against the other principals left – his brother, his madam, Epstein’s high-profile pederast clients, etc. Best to put it aside and live.

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JamesB.BKK said...

It is interesting to see the death while incarcerated of the lynchpin figure of a Satanic pedophilia and ritual abuse and likely blackmail operation having credible allegations of involvement by the highest levels of persons within government, academia, media, and global economic intervention referred to as a "scandal."

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