Said a sophomore at the University of Michigan, quoted in "Sasha Obama set to begin college career at University of Michigan" (Detroit News).
I don't know why Sasha Obama isn't going to a fancier school, but as a graduate of the University of Michigan and the daughter of a graduate of the University of Michigan and granddaughter of graduate of the University of Michigan, I'm happy to hear this news.
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She wanted to go to a school with a decent football team. And safe from the rising waters that will soon flood Martha’s Vineyard.
Hopefully that sophomore didn’t already take honors logic.
Badgers v. Corn this year will be epic.
I've lost track of the affirmative action rules for Michigan. I think I remember it depends on RBG dead or alive, constitutionally.
Is UM in flyover country?
Is there something like Haavrd of such?
“Sasha, whose legal name is Natasha....” Now this News! We had a Russian spy in the White House for 8 years. Why didn’t Comey investigate this?
As a graduate of the UW-Madison, and as the son of 2 UW-Madison graduates, and the grandson of 4 UW-Madison graduates, I think UW-Madison would do much better for just about anyone.
"I've lost track of the affirmative action rules for Michigan."
The only protest demonstration I ever participated in in my entire life was half a century ago at the University of Michigan, during a student strike to force the university to adopt affirmative action. I think it was also the only time I participated in a political chant. The chant was "Open it up or shut it down." I am very happy with the narrative arc that has the daughter of the first black President attending the University of Michigan!
Good for her.
Why does her attending Michigan make you happy?
Go Blue!
Face it. Better parties in Ann Arbor. More guys to date. And no global warming flooding.
That college choice is, right there, the biggest act of effective teenage rebellion I’ve ever seen.
She was obviously pre-admitted to every school in the world. Maybe not BYU or Hillsdale but everyone else.
And it isn’t even self destructive - if Chelsea could work at Bain it’s not like they’re gonna turn down an Obama, no matter her undergrad.
Either that or she’s planning a political career.
-XC
My daughter was accepted at NYU but chose instead to go to Ohio State, which had a top rated program in her field. I read a study several years ago that found that students like her that are accepted at prestigious schools but chose state schools instead do just as well in their careers as those who went to the top schools. So it's the kids who determine the outcomes, not the school. I'm sure our host can point to many fine lawyers who went to Wisconsin.
I know why.
The Diversity Staff at the University of Michigan Is Nearly 100 Full-Time Employees
There are various reasons for surging education costs, but the primary one is the expansion of university administration in recent decades.
The best thing about Michigan is that it's a lot farther from Martha's Vineyard than Harvard, Yale or Columbia.
Of course, she could have picked Stanford. Too far?
Blogger rhhardin said...
I've lost track of the affirmative action rules for Michigan. I think I remember it depends on RBG dead or alive, constitutionally.
The University of Michigan had affirmative action programs just like everywhere else in American academia. All that differed in Michigan was the determination of a couple of plaintiffs (Jennifer Gratz and Patrick Hamacher) and the Center for Individual Rights, and quite probably Michigan’s fortuitous location within the Sixth Circuit.
There were two cases. Gratz v Bollinger (undergrad admissions, which the Supreme Court struck down) and Grutter v Bollinger (law school admissions, which the Supreme Court substantially upheld). Michigan had, and has, no peculiar affirmative action rules and in fact the undergrad population at Michigan gets considerable criticism for not being very diverse.
Fuck Michigan.
While the odds are she would have been accepted at any school she applied to, the incoming freshman class at Harvard has average SAT scores higher than U of Michigan. Perhaps, she wanted to fit in better academically, which is a sign of youthful wisdom.
So the assumption is getting into an Ivy League school doesn't have anything to do with qualifications it has to do with family connections. Got it. It's been pretty obvious but it was nice of him to just spell it out like that
Does she still have family in Chicago, or does she want to be near the Obama Presidential Library/Monument?
Blogger Jake said...
Fuck Michigan.
That’s such music to my/our ears. The entire Conference hates us. We’re everybody’s number one rival and hate object. We are circled on every B1G football and basketball schedule.
So get in the line, Jake.
The elite schools (except MIT/CalTech) suck for undergrad anyway. That's if your really interested in acquiring marketable skills, otherwise Harvard might be a better choice.
UM has gotten fancier since Althouse left. The median family income of Michigan students is over $150K (apparently the highest for any public university) and out-of-state students make up about half of the undergrad student body (with a large contingent of wealthy east-coasters who come to Ann Arbor before returning home to spawn). There have been various discussions about the difficulties of being a non-wealthy student at Michigan -- this made the news a couple of years ago:
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/26/606077648/navigating-campus-for-the-not-rich-students-launch-a-crowdsourced-guide
Sasha Obama going to UM does more for equality than all the dem's crazy plans.It opens up the seat she would have taken at an Ivy league to a merit student without family money who can use the connections to climb the ladder of wealth and privilege as her father did.It also gives any UM students she befriends access to connections they would normally not have, while elevating the schools prestige.Expect a huge spike in applications next year.Nice change to see a democrat actually living the values the party preaches.
Ann, you are proud of protesting in favor of affirmative action. But Gail Heriot and others say that affirmative action in higher education results in mismatches: Blacks end up attending schools that their academic skills would have excluded them from if not for their skin color. They fare poorly in competition with the academic high achievers at those schools, but would have done just fine if they had gone to less selective schools. I wonder if this gives you any pause.
“Her classmates likely won't even view her as a black girl, nevermind "the daughter of the first black President".”
Mary has a strong point, Althouse. Your little “making the world a better place” reminisce is more than a little comic (and, think about it, more than a little racist) in the case of Sasha Obama.
I don't know why Sasha Obama isn't going to a fancier school,
Because the Obama's aren't very bright.
I am impressed! Hopefully she and other non-Ivy League graduates are the future of the Democratic Party.
UofM. Not impressed. Or rather, the caliber of graduates. They are, quite simply, uneducated and useless.
I'm an Iowa guy, but Michigan has the best fight song in the country.
People go to the Ivies to make contacts. She has all the contacts she needs. Maybe she doesn't want to be a contact for people who went to school to make contacts.
Washington & Lee and Notre Dame have better fight songs than Michigan.
Blogger Bill, Republic of Texas said...
I don't know why Sasha Obama isn't going to a fancier school,
Because the Obama's aren't very bright.
There’s really nothing quite so stupid as a complaint about someone else’s intelligence and education, wherein the complaint itself features the misuse of punctuation.
Obama, plural = Obamas.
Obama, singular possessive = Obama’s.
Washington & Lee and Notre Dame have better fight songs than Michigan.
So does Wisconsin
narrative arc
I would guess that only someone who is cluelessly smug about their own racism and support for the destructive racist policies which are ruining higher education would use a phrase which implies a falsified storytelling, a la "we prefer truth over facts".
Michigan, mishigas.
Diversity Staff at the University of Michigan Is Nearly 100 Full-Time Employees
Only 93.
Here's a list of their names and incomes; the top scammer makes $396K per year, and in total those 93 people waste a little over $11 million per year.
Sasha Obama is going to whatever school she wants to because not a single person in the entire world is going to go oh you didn't go to Harvard get the fuck out of my office. That's what being an ultra-scion is. All your doors are pre-opened.
LLR Chuck: "There’s really nothing quite so stupid as a complaint about someone else’s intelligence and education, wherein the complaint itself features the misuse of punctuation."
Hear hear!
Couldn't agree more.
Complaints about intelligence should be limited to the substance of a comment.
For instance, if a self-anointed smarty-pants were to assert something entirely ridiculous and easily disproven and just downright laughable that would make clear that person is a moron.
For example, if one were to claim that the obama economy was "dream-perfect", well, that person would simply be begging to be rightfully called out for his stupidity...or mendacity...or more likely both.
hawkeyedjb: "I'm an Iowa guy, but Michigan has the best fight song in the country."
That's not how we see it out "West".
Notre Dame has the worst cliche of a fight song in the land, sung by millions who have no connection to the mediocre university that attaches to the football team. "On Wisconsin" is about on par with "On Iowa," but the Hawkeye fans are often sober when they sing.
"to force the university to adopt affirmative action"
Figures. A minority trying to "force" state institutions to do what the voters and taxpayers don't want and what the Constitution doesn't allow, with "equal" protection and all.
So, Althouse, have you changed your mind? Are you now cruelly neutral about AA?
Good for her parents if they decided this was a more appropriate school for her than an Ivy.
So do the “fancier” schools get you better education. Regardless of what school you go to YOU are the key to your college education.
(Having said that, I went to the fanciest Big 10 school:GO CATS!)
On the one hand, maybe a mid-Western college will leave her with better values than her father has. On the other hand, Michigan is close to Chicago.
Tom Lehrer: "Fight Fiercely Hahvahd! Dooo!"
Blogger Sebastian said...
"to force the university to adopt affirmative action"
Figures. A minority trying to "force" state institutions to do what the voters and taxpayers don't want and what the Constitution doesn't allow, with "equal" protection and all.
So, Althouse, have you changed your mind? Are you now cruelly neutral about AA?
The State of Michigan has indeed put a very serious dent in “affirmative action.” We passed a state constitutional amendment, against all odds and massive campaign spending, to do it. We needed a state constitutional amendment to override any action by the constitutionally-empowered university boards. An ordinary statute would not have done it. A statute would have been (state-) constitutionally challenged.
The vote was a complete triumph for the opponents of affirmative action. Federal law only says that if you do have an AA program, it must comply with federal civil rights laws (for the losers under AA). Federal law does not (much) require AA.
Our challenge in Michigan was that decades of straight-party voting options led to Dem supermajorities on the U-M Board of Regents. And the Regents enjoyed constitutionally-protected plenary control over the university.
A few years ago, the entire University of Michigan football team was given a personal blessing by the Pope.
" few years ago, the entire University of Michigan football team was given a personal blessing by the Pope."
Did they beat Notre Dame that year?
Chuck, has the amendment actually worked in practice, or have the Regents & Administrations worked around it (probably using athletics)?
Should this influence others to go to UM, or unfluence them?
So a black student chooses a school where no one can say she’s an affirmative action admit. Not a bad idea with a top school liked UM. May also be a discreetly raised middle finger to the racial spoils industry.
‘On the one hand, maybe a mid-Western college will leave her with better values than her father has.’
One wife, no affairs, no scandals. Contrast that with three wives, cheated on each one.
As the US university system is, these days, entirely dominated by the forces of darkness, we should not celebrate them claiming another victim.
The poor girl is still innocent, and does not deserve what she is getting into.
Though her parents do deserve to get the bills, in full. I assume the university hasn't found a way to make it free for them. They may have, for all we jnow, and I wouldn't be surprised.
Nobody wins.
The Obamas harm everything they touch.
Blogger Ralph L said...
Chuck, has the amendment actually worked in practice, or have the Regents & Administrations worked around it (probably using athletics)?
It will be a constant battle with the Dem Regents and the university liberals, ad infinitum. But yes, the amendment was and is a powerful legal tool and African-American undergraduate admission numbers are down from one and two decades ago.
Anti-affirmative action votes are political scalps indeed, but in practice, in the bigger picture, they are irrelevant.
What petty baubles your politicians lay before you, with what simple stories do they bedazzle.
Your problem is not that you have more or less black people in these places, but that you have let them stock themselves with your bitterest white enemies. And the more of your children you send to them, the more you will have your own turn into vipers.
The most intelligent and ambitious youth of the world still flocks to the US for the highest levels of education. The kids are alright. Everything will be fine, there no such things as the boogieman. Other than that, buwaya puti is spot on
Michigan has an oppressive Leftist Collectivist culture.
Obama will be right at home.
There’s really nothing quite so stupid as a complaint about someone else’s intelligence and education, wherein the complaint itself features the misuse of punctuation.
I can top that stupid: people who question the intelligence of people that use improper grammar and/or punctuation in a tweet or blog comment or some other quick and casual format where informal writing is encouraged.
I mean honestly, nitpicking punctuation and grammar on a blog- what kind of insane person wastes their time on stuff like that? ;-)
Blogger buwaya said...
Anti-affirmative action votes are political scalps indeed, but in practice, in the bigger picture, they are irrelevant.
What petty baubles your politicians lay before you, with what simple stories do they bedazzle.
Your problem is not that you have more or less black people in these places, but that you have let them stock themselves with your bitterest white enemies. And the more of your children you send to them, the more you will have your own turn into vipers.
I really think that the reason that the United States of America in the 20th and 21st centuries is the greatest place and time to live in all of recorded history, is because so few of us share your blackened Darwinian/Machiavellian/apocalyptic view of the world. What culture is it, that has broken you so badly?
Wolverines!
“So the assumption is getting into an Ivy League school doesn't have anything to do with qualifications it has to do with family connections. Got it. It's been pretty obvious but it was nice of him to just spell it out like that”
It appears that the bulk of admissions to schools like Harvard are based mostly on merit what I mean by “mostly” is that the bulk have near perfect SATs and grades, probably a lot of AP coursework, etc. They need that to keep the schools looking competitive on paper. But there is some serious negative action/discrimination going on at most of these schools against East Asians, just like a bit over a half century ago, they discriminated against Jews.
After that though, there are a number of other categories of acceptances. Some are high demand athletes in sports the schools prioritize. Thus, lacrosse, soccer, or hockey probably works better than football or basketball at much of the Ivy League. Even golf and rowing. Then there is the interrelated categories of legacies, the mega rich, and the very powerful. The best route into Harvard with mediocre grades and SATs appears to be to have a parent who is powerful politician in Congress, or, of course, President of VP. Obama’s kids were going to go anywhere selective they wanted in the country. Period.
What seems to have changed a lot since I was starting college over a half century ago is that for many, if not most, selective private colleges and universities, being a legacy admit is more about money, and less about bloodlines. Back then, being a mere legacy was worth maybe 100 points in both verbal and math SATs, and a whole point in grade point. Next door neighbor growing up got one boy in Dartmouth with maybe a 3.2 and 600 SATs. Older one was waitlisted with a 2.8 GPA. Other kids with 3.9 GPA and 1400 SATs from the same public school were rejected. The difference was that their father and grandfather were Dartmouth grads. Fast forward 40 years, and the way it seemed to work was that legacy status meant a lower threshold to buy your kid in. For my alma mater, the cost was roughly that of 4 years tuition ($200k at the time) spread over the years you have been out.
Surprisingly, U of M student body is only 5% black. I thought it would be more given Detroit, etc. in the sate.
Obviously she could have gotten into Harvard since Obama went to Harvard Law. Like most college AA women she's a affirmative action prize winner, smart, black, AND a woman. SHe ticks a lot of boxes.
The ambitious youth of the world are still seeing the image of the US that was projected fifty years ago. In truth they are being fed a fantasy, or rather their societies are.
1. In part the idea of a US education is a status symbol. Its very much like buying an expensive home or car. This is a difficult achievement, as it is ridiculously costly.
2. In part this is a way to bypass many immigration problems, and get to the US on a student visa, and then finagle work permits.
3. In part this is a way to break in to the First-World region of sci-tech. There is a direct line from US STEM, in the upper tier, to the leading edge employers and research opportunities. This is the best remaining part of US education. But it appl ies only to a rather small minority.
#1 in particular is pernicious, as it tends to spread the US socio-cultural disaster everywhere.
Yah we’ve learned how it breaks down. Just like a recommendation from a coach or a trustee, money and legacy matter to the admissions office, too.
"What culture is it, that has broken you so badly?"
Yours, actually. When I came here I was bedazzled myself, with the fantasies of 1945 and Apollo. And for a few years (two decades?) you were what your image promised. But I eventually became aware of the worms in the apple.
It is like a visitors idea of San Francisco. From a distance it is a fantasy made real. Closer in it is lovely in detail. But eventually one understands, statistically and personally, what it does to people. It is a sort of roach motel, attracting the most talented, and effectively killing them off.
"On Wisconsin" is about on par with "On Iowa," but the Hawkeye fans are often sober when they sing.
I can't decide whether this is a pro- or anti-Iowa comment.
Origin of the name Sasha:
A borrowing of the Russian pet form of Alexandra (defender or helper of mankind),
!!
per Obama it is also Austrian for Natasha
!!
Reminds me of the Bush twins. One followed her dad to Yale and the other her mother who got her masters at University of Texas. Both seem to have done fine. Wonder if the Obamas consulted the Bushes.
“Open it up or shut it down” ...
You use that word open ... I guess you don’t mean open to Asians.
Has anyone seen her SAT scores? Just asking...
Fernandistein at 7:35 Bravo
A Michigan ballot measure banned affirmative action in state constitution. Upheld by U.S. supreme Court. California did same.
Good for Sasha Obama. My usual complaints about the university system, and especially the Ivys, are rescinded in her case. As the child of a super-elite liberal family, she'd be insane NOT to go to university. I heartily dislike how some conservatives try to sneer out her intelligence: George W. went to an Ivy, whereas Sasha would have the advantage of affirmative action. Supposed intelligence is clearly not a factor to the Ivy legacy system, which she has clearly, publicly rejected. This also has huge political advantages when she chooses to run as a populist who doesn't cloister herself off from other Americans. And that's before the fact U of M is almost certainly offering her a full scholarship. They'd consider it an honor to do so, and most of Michigan's voters would agree. They could probably pass the hat with a public subsidy, and I would actually understand it. Almost everyone in the state would want to at least virtue-signal as a Sasha fan, and most voters would want to genuinely approve of her.
Her sister is going to Harvard, so it can't be Obama family policy, but still. It's a very interesting move, and it makes Sasha Obama someone to watch, in stark contrast to Chelsea Clinton and other completely untalented legacies like George W.
I don't understand. Michigan is a very rigorous University with a great reputation. Seems plenty fancy to me. Its not like she's going to Eastern West South Dakota State or to the local Martha's Vineyard Community College. Are people really so snobbish that they turn their nose up at U Michigan? What must they think of Joe Biden with his lowly University of Delaware degree? Peasant.
Either that or she’s planning a political career.
Bingo ! Surprised only one said it.
In part this is a way to break in to the First-World region of sci-tech. There is a direct line from US STEM, in the upper tier, to the leading edge employers and research opportunities. This is the best remaining part of US education.
And the SJW network is working on destroying that.
If I recall correctly the football stadium at Michigan is called "The Big House".
The idea of Natasha "Sasha" Obama attending a football game (as she probably will--it's all part of the Michigan experience) in The Big House brings a smile to my face. At least one member of the Obama family will be spending time in "The Big House"--proving that there is some justice in the world.
Well anyway, have a good time kid. College should be an enjoyable as well as educational experience.
buwaya said...
"What culture is it, that has broken you so badly?"
Yours, actually. When I came here I was bedazzled myself, with the fantasies of 1945 and Apollo. And for a few years (two decades?) you were what your image promised. But I eventually became aware of the worms in the apple.
It is like a visitors idea of San Francisco. From a distance it is a fantasy made real. Closer in it is lovely in detail. But eventually one understands, statistically and personally, what it does to people. It is a sort of roach motel, attracting the most talented, and effectively killing them off.
Well, have a nice day!
Lucien said...
"So a black student chooses a school where no one can say she’s an affirmative action admit."
Sorry to harsh your mellow, but let's see her SAT's before you start claiming that Sasha Obama is not an AAA.
UM needs a better football coach. This one loses games and complains about losing recruiting wars as if Michigan is entitled to a Notre Dame like favor.
The Obama kids are smart. They have Asian ancestry.
We’ve had an Obama in Michigan Stadium already:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pcNXFz_QCVU
MichaelK, I also made the point that Sasha could enjoy political advantages from her choice.
policraticus said...
I don't understand. Michigan is a very rigorous University with a great reputation. Seems plenty fancy to me. Its not like she's going to Eastern West South Dakota State or to the local Martha's Vineyard Community College. Are people really so snobbish that they turn their nose up at U Michigan? What must they think of Joe Biden with his lowly University of Delaware degree? Peasant.
8/29/19, 9:44 AM
Joe Biden is a disgusting perv who pushed for an extra Amtrak station with his huge political influence. He has less class than Trump, and I would trust him less with a young woman than I would trust Bill Clinton, but he's a card carrying member of the political elite. Biden is a moron because of the many stupid things he says. Not his degree.
But yes, there are some Republicans who are either blinded by hellish partisanship or just extremely bad at actually taking their ideas about convergence in higher education to their logical conclusion. Sasha Obama would need to literally be dumber than a sack of Jello to not get AA'ed into the Ivy League. She clearly isn't -that- stupid, which is why Republicans smugly declaring she's not good enough for Ivy utterly baffles me. There might actually be a racial component to it.
The Obama kids keep a low profile, but they seem likable and worthy. They speak well for their parents' skills as parents. The Reagan kids not so much. The children of FDR also had messy lives. Go figure.
How is 'caliber' measured in educational institutions these days?
I am very happy with the narrative arc that has the daughter of the first black President attending the University of Michigan!
It is too bad that Mr. Flood's Party has closed. It was a great Blues bar.
I have little doubt that they had to drag Chuckles out of there a few times, for being a drunken asshole.
So you're still in SF, buwaya? I though you'd moved to Spain.
U of Michigan fan here. I am glad that Sasha picked Michigan and Michigan picked her. There are a lot of Big Ten schools that are wonderful schools and world-class research universities. She would have done well to pick any of them.
I have always thought that in their personal lives, the Obamas are monuments to the benefits of bourgeois values. Barack and Michelle got together in part because she offered him something he had never had: a stable, loving, intact family. That Sasha is following the path of many of her fellow citizens and choosing a large, world-class, public university is heartening.
I hope she is happy and does well there.
And I thought Obama was a lousy president.
Chuck: so few of us share your blackened Darwinian/Machiavellian/apocalyptic view of the world. What culture is it, that has broken you so badly?
Heh. Life Long Republican throws cold water on the fact that the University System has become a liberal indoctrination center. His "fellow" conservatives can't even speak there without brainwashed students starting riots.
Chuck: Well, have a nice day!
Life Long Republican doesn't like it when immigrants talk back to him.
Go figure.
Three more weeks.
Many, many loose ends, getting rid of, replacing, setting up house for one son, and getting to my last day of leadership-transition.
I don't know why Sasha Obama isn't going to a fancier school
Malia is already at Harvard. Most kids don't want to be seen as following in their older sibling's footsteps.
Other Ivy League schools were available. Most kids don't want to hear, "What, you couldn't get into Harvard?"
Stanford was probably too far away. MIT, was likely too much work.
Michigan it is!
Blogger Francisco D said...
I am very happy with the narrative arc that has the daughter of the first black President attending the University of Michigan!
It is too bad that Mr. Flood's Party has closed. It was a great Blues bar.
I have little doubt that they had to drag Chuckles out of there a few times, for being a drunken asshole.
The owner of Flood’s — Ned Duke — employed me.. At his much-fancier upscale restaurant next door to Flood’s. Called Leopold Bloom’s.
You have no clue as to what a fucking jackass you are, do you?
Sasha seems as normal as possible to have been raised in her circumstances - a nice young lady. I wish her well at Michigan and hope she enjoys her time outside of the fishbowl.
William said...
The Obama kids keep a low profile, but they seem likable and worthy. They speak well for their parents' skills as parents. The Reagan kids not so much. The children of FDR also had messy lives. Go figure.
my vote for least assuming POTUS kid?
Teddie Roosevelt Jr.
Led the 4th Div ashore on Utah Beach, D-Day.
Here's to BG Teddie Roosevelt Jr. Bn and RGT Commander in WWI where he was both wounded and gassed. He was an Asst. Div CDR in WII
PS: All Teddie's sons had military service in WWI
Insufferable Chuck says stuff.
At least he's hiding his racism today.
Howard: "The most intelligent and ambitious youth of the world still flocks to the US for the highest levels of education."
For tech, yes. For finance it's London.
LLR Chuck: "The owner of Flood’s — Ned Duke — employed me.. At his much-fancier upscale restaurant next door to Flood’s. Called Leopold Bloom’s."
Was he aware you opposed tax cuts and deregulation?
Of course, your open borders position (cleverly couched in "really strong borders"....but you still oppose anything that would make the borders strong) would mitigate the above as it provides cheap labor for businesses.
Sasha Obama grew into such a beautiful girl! I really didn't expect that. But she is gorgeous. I wish her luck at UofM.
Blogger Jake said...
Fuck Michigan.
The shape does elicit a Pavlovian response in men of a certain bent.
On the other hand, what the quote in the headline reminded me of was this:
Q: How many Michigan students does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Five. One to put in the bulb, and four to tell you how they did it every bit as well as any Ivy Leaguer.
Sasha should invite Malia to watch Michigan lose to Ohio State another four consecutive times.
Althouse said:
“I am very happy with the narrative arc that has the daughter of the first black President attending the University of Michigan!”
It will be even better if Barron Trump goes to Syracuse.
Mad Man has just confessed to an abundance of white privilege. Heh.
As if I need another reason to root against Michigan.
SDaly, as noted in thread above, apparently the voters of the State of Michigan agreed with your sentiment, and they took action to eliminate affirmative action in state higher education. Personally, I disagree, but we'll see what a federal judge says about Harvard soon.
Note the sophomore's assumption that she got into an Ivy League school but opted for Michigan instead. Then again, being black, female, and the spawn of a famous Dem family all but punches your ticket to any number of elite schools. I believe it's called "black privilege."
The chant was "Open it up or shut it down."
--
When one door shuts...
I went to Harvard and Yale and then U of M for graduate school, where I served as a Teaching Assistant. Many of my students were far more elitist that anybody I had met at Harvard or Yale. They also tended to be not particularly bright. Although I am no fan of the Ivy League, it appears that the top public universities are just as bad when it comes to political correctness and worse in other respects.
Fen said...
Chuck: so few of us share your blackened Darwinian/Machiavellian/apocalyptic view of the world. What culture is it, that has broken you so badly?
Heh. Life Long Republican throws cold water on the fact that the University System has become a liberal indoctrination center. His "fellow" conservatives can't even speak there without brainwashed students starting riots.
WTF? Where did you get THAT?
Where did you get any defense from me, for university liberalism? You have no idea what you are talking about, with me.
What I was taking up with buwaya is his seeming love of authoritarianism in the style of... Where? Spain? Eastern Europe? The Philippines? Maylaysia? Central or South America? Somewhere else?
The main thing that separates the U.S. and which makes the U.S. eternally superior to those places is the rule of law and our history of civil law and discourse. The very things that Donald Trump does not get, about what is important in the U.S.
"The main thing that separates the U.S. and which makes the U.S. eternally superior to those places is the rule of law and our history of civil law and discourse."
This is not true. What is distinctive about your people is their tendency to despise laws, rules, and restrictions. If you want a rule-follower, well, even Australians (with whom I have much experience) are much better followers of rules, to name some. Other peoples ignore rules unless they have to, but that is something else. They do not question that which they evade.
The American distinction is that they are so willing to spit in the eye of authority, and spontaneously create organization, outside authority.
It is this that you are losing, through the crippling poison of "rule of law and our history of civil law and discourse". This "discourse" is limited to a self-serving priesthood that knows the rituals and formulas.
"She clearly isn't -that- stupid, which is why Republicans smugly declaring she's not good enough for Ivy utterly baffles me. There might actually be a racial component to it."
How is it "clear" that she isn't -that- stupid? As far as I know, the facts in evidence are that she is a black female, her father is Barack Obama, her mother is Michelle Obama, and she has been accepted at the University of Michigan. If it weren't for the first three facts, the fourth might argue for at least a three-digit IQ, but under the circumstances, I will not be surprised if the details of her academic performance are guarded as carefully as her father's.
The defining event in US history was a phenomenon, not a document, and the substance in which it was written was gunpowder, not ink.
Without that one successful, spontaneous (over weeks, but even so), unofficial, voluntary act, by thousands of men, and moreover effectively leaderless at the point of effect, you would have no United States. You were created by a communal act.
Everything else was a consequence of this. There was no charismatic man, no leadership coups, no outside money, no organization of landowners and patrons such as initiated and aided Venezuela's revolt, and the "liberation" of South America. You had no Bolivar.
Ever since that day hordes of questionable characters have been trying to persuade the Americans that their nature is defined by documents.
buwaya what makes me happiest in talking about the U.S.A. is that you speak to me about the U.S.A. as my people. I am so thankful for that.
No dictators, no autocrats, no kings.
Life is not like what is described in poli-sci texts.
The formal structures of government are not all there is to "liberty".
The actual state of things as it applies to a real person is a combination of politics, society and culture, as well as material circumstances.
One must perhaps understand life as it is lived in other political systems, to get a basis for comparison. As in a dictatorship for instance.
You would be surprised, perhaps, to find out, relatively, where it is you are constrained and where you are free. I could do things in Manila in 1983 that I would not dare do in the US, in free-wheeling San Francisco, today.
Among the freedoms I miss, that our dictator did not attempt, or manage, to contain, is the ability to speak freely. The dictators goons did not bother with private opinions, or very rarely. His enemies were remarkably open about it, to declare themselves. There were no social constraints, other than people might, eventually, find the speaker tiresome. Here you cannot discuss politics or culture opposing the local consensus without painful social and professional consequences.
Every category of existence is part of a continuum. There is no "law" this, and "politics" that, or "fashion" on that island, or "engineering" out in that corner.
buwaya said...
Life is not like what is described in poli-sci texts.
The formal structures of government are not all there is to "liberty".
The actual state of things as it applies to a real person is a combination of politics, society and culture, as well as material circumstances.
One must perhaps understand life as it is lived in other political systems, to get a basis for comparison. As in a dictatorship for instance.
You would be surprised, perhaps, to find out, relatively, where it is you are constrained and where you are free. I could do things in Manila in 1983 that I would not dare do in the US, in free-wheeling San Francisco, today.
Among the freedoms I miss, that our dictator did not attempt, or manage, to contain, is the ability to speak freely. The dictators goons did not bother with private opinions, or very rarely. His enemies were remarkably open about it, to declare themselves. There were no social constraints, other than people might, eventually, find the speaker tiresome. Here you cannot discuss politics or culture opposing the local consensus without painful social and professional consequences.
Every category of existence is part of a continuum. There is no "law" this, and "politics" that, or "fashion" on that island, or "engineering" out in that corner.
I now think that you have answered my original question very well. I appreciate that.
buwaya: It is this that you are losing, through the crippling poison of "rule of law and our history of civil law and discourse". This "discourse" is limited to a self-serving priesthood that knows the rituals and formulas.
That's an interesting point of view. I got into it with Professor Jacobson over at the Legal Insurrection blog because he refused to discuss where the Red Line was that would cause him to abandon his faith in the Rule of Law and support an "Illegal Insurrection". He was too cowardly to even state whether he had a Red Line. Which I took to mean he has none.
It was very disheartening because I admired and respected the man, and had learned many things from him. But since he refused to even entertain the question from a "prole" like me, the most generous spin I can put to his position is the he believes: if force must be used to defend the Rule of Law, then the Rule of Law is no longer worth defending - it's game over for him, surrender. He will never pick up a rifle under any circumstances. Instead, he will give up the fight, retreat into his creature comforts and intellectual pursuits, and maybe post a 500 word essay lamenting the Fall of the Republic every few months.
So when you refer to the "crippling poison of the Rule of Law and civil discourse", that is the experience I relate it to. Is that close to what you are getting at?
Silent enim lēgēs inter arma. When it comes to arms the law is silent.
-Cicero (it seems)
Jacobson is in the same camp, more or less, as Cicero, another lawyer. But Cicero understood the problem, or could state it, not that it did him any good. Thats one of the better parts of HBO's "Rome" btw.
That isn't what I meant, actually, but you could say it is a possible consequence of what I mean. The more peaceful way of looking at it is that a society that is dominated by arcane procedure, such as your obsession with law and bureaucracy, is paralytic. It becomes more important to success to command the minutiae of your infinitely compounding rules than it is to strive against nature. It makes even temperate and reasonable men rage, and think of the Alexandrian solution to the Gordian knot.
As for your assumption of Jacobsons reaction to your own sally - you are probably right. When those times come most people flee, or hide in their homes.
I'm no different. We are "fleeing" soon. We leave a lifeline to our children.
It may turn out she is the smartest of the Obama's. She knows what she wants and it isn't what her parents would prefer. Good on her.
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