July 2, 2019

Trump invites his antagonists to naysay about the 4th of July.

Here's the bait:



Here's the NYT doing a decent job of mostly resisting: "Trump Says Tanks Will Be on Display in Washington for July 4":

Mr. Trump’s Fourth of July homage to the military sets up a cultural clash between the Republican president and a mostly Democratic city that has for decades celebrated America’s independence with almost no public participation by presidents of either party. The City Council for the District of Columbia, which was not happy with Mr. Trump’s decision, posted on Twitter that “we have said it before, and we’ll say it again: Tanks, but no tanks.”...

Pentagon officials have long been reluctant to parade tanks, missiles and other weapons through the nation’s capital like the authoritarian leaders of North Korea and China....

After watching the Bastille Day parade in 2017 in Paris, Mr. Trump said that “we may do something like that on July 4 in Washington down Pennsylvania Avenue.”....

“You’ve got to be pretty careful with the tanks because the roads have a tendency not to like to carry heavy tanks,” Mr. Trump said, acknowledging the damage that such heavy vehicles could do to Washington’s transportation network. “So we have to put them in certain areas.” The president did not say where those areas would be....

Mr. Trump is scheduled to deliver his Fourth of July speech from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, becoming the first president in decades to participate in the annual Independence Day event....

90 comments:

Ice Nine said...

"Dear Democrats, I cordially invite you to appear to loathe the US military. Please accept. Yours, Donald."

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Trump imitates the French.

Phil 314 said...

If you’re going to have tanks, you need to have missies on trailers.

AlbertAnonymous said...

And if he did nothing (like they claim all past presidents did) they’d bash him for that.

F them all Mr. President. Do it your way and let them show their biases.

Beasts of England said...

Wait'll he rolls out the sharks with friggin' laser beams...

madAsHell said...

This is how you own a newspaper.....hell, the entire media.....without ever writing a check!!

Chuck said...

Well if we have "brand new Sherman tanks" it will be just like that grand 4th of July in 1945 that I unfortunately missed because my parents had not yet met each other.

Nonapod said...

If you’re going to have tanks, you need to have missies on trailers.

Not to mention formations of lock step goose stepping soldiers. Trump also needs a garish military uniform with oversized epaulettes, festooned with medals.

Darrell said...

The United States Space Force (USSF) should be right up front in the parade.

Marcus said...

Chuck still peddlin' his shit. This is the best he's got now that all his other arguments fell through. Pathetic.

THEOLDMAN

Michael K said...

Poor Chuck. His brand of LLR gets smaller and smaller.

According to Gallup polling, 89% of Republicans approve of Trump's job performance. And this cannot be chalked up to a mass exodus from the party that left only core Trumpists. In May, Gallup found that 30% of the electorate identified as Republican, which is higher than it was when Trump announced his candidacy

Roll 'em !!

Leland said...

Something for Trump to consider.

chickelit said...

Chuck still peddlin' his shit. This is the best he's got now that all his other arguments fell through. Pathetic.

Yesterday it was "Western Liberalism." Today it's "New Sherman Tanks." You can squirm out of this one this time! Gotcha!!

Wince said...

Headline: "Trump Orders Tanks to Roll on DC!"

"Well, tanks for nuthin'!"

Brian said...

Well if we have "brand new Sherman tanks" it will be just like that grand 4th of July in 1945 that I unfortunately missed because my parents had not yet met each other.

And there's your tell that this parade is designed to be talked about. Trump wants media attention to tanks and military and the left to rail against it. So he deliberately talks about "new" Sherman tanks. And the left laughs and points out how stupid he is and the vast middle of the country conjures a mental image of a venerable WWII tank. A version of which probably sits in front of their local VFW hall and thinks, wait, why is tanks on the Mall a problem? A mental image of the WWII era when the country was united and the military was revered and "God Bless the USA".

And you fall for it hook line and sinker. Keep laughing.

If Trump is for the USA, what are his enemies for?

AllenS said...

Pretty badass, Leland.

Brian said...

He trades nothing for something. In this case, "laughter at his blooper", for free media coverage of the parade.

He doesn't care what his enemies think of him. And his enemies scream "How Dare He!" at everything he does and are surprised that it doesn't work.

Greg P said...

Ice Nine said...
+1

Ignorance is Bliss said...

“So we have to put them in certain areas.” The president did not say where those areas would be....

The floor of the House might be a nice starting point...

cubanbob said...

I always say if you are going to do the time, might as well do the crime. The Left is always accusing Trump of being a dictator so let him surround Congress with tanks. Then declare himself President For Life. The sad fact is not one of the Democrats running would be in the least bit better than a Dictator Trump.

Darrell said...

The United States Space Force should develop a rail gun that could put Chuck in orbit. Actually, it doesn't have to put Chuck in orbit, just get him out of sight.

tim in vermont said...

I never really liked the Air Force flyovers of sporting events, except of course for the Super Bowl, where it's on brand. But Jeezums liberals, pick your battles! Trump is great at opening new fronts, so to speak, sapping the press’s credibility with each new initiative. We used to talk about a OODA loop, or something like that, well Trump is living inside the press’s head.

alanc709 said...

Soviets used to have thousands of factory-new T-34s warehoused in Siberia, so maybe we got some new Shermans from them. The Soviets asked us not to send more Shermans, by the way. They were greatly inferior to what they had. In Israel, I was lucky enough to have had a Centurion Mk V instead of a Sherman as my tank.

tim in vermont said...

My favorite is when Trump is obviously speaking figuratively, well obvious to anybody who isn’t infected by the zombie affliction of TDS anyways, and he is accused of lying. It’s like a memo went out that said “If there is any possible way to interpret a Trump statement to be factually incorrect, call him a liar”

It’s laughable to us normies.

tim in vermont said...

Nazi soldiers used to call Sherman Tanks “Tommy cookers"

John henry said...

Good on him. We won our independence militarily, our continued independence relies on our military.

Tanks are fine. Some of those 155mm howitzers would be cool too.

They just need to make sure that all muzzles are pointed away from the capital at all times including movein/moveout

Imagine the field day the press woul have with guns pointing even for a second at the capital

John Henry

Mr Wibble said...

I never really liked the Air Force flyovers of sporting events, except of course for the Super Bowl, where it's on brand. But Jeezums liberals, pick your battles! Trump is great at opening new fronts, so to speak, sapping the press’s credibility with each new initiative. We used to talk about a OODA loop, or something like that, well Trump is living inside the press’s head.

The key to understanding Trump, IMHO, is that a) he has a very well-honed ability to "read the room" and know what the general attitude is, as well as when he's gotten under someone's skin, and b) that he thrives on chaos for this reason. Chaos gives him options, and allows him to pick his battles.

Leland said...

Thanks Allen, here's more from Obama's time in office, which just shows that Trump is doing what Obama and other Presidents did, but the media hates it because Trump.

Henry said...

It's interesting to think of Trumpism as a kind of American Gaullism.

narayanan said...

for real - https://www.wired.com/2012/05/wicked-lasers-shark/

He should put them in the Reflecting Pool
------

Beasts of England said... Wait'll he rolls out the sharks with friggin' laser beams...

How do you roll them out ? Do yours come on bikes?

Shouting Thomas said...

I've often been told that Prez Trump is a con man.

And he is, in a good way. He instills confidence in people. He's instilling confidence in our country, our military and in our financial markets.

That's what a president should do.

traditionalguy said...

It’s a symbolic three fer. Napoleon’s First rule of becoming Emperor was having his canons brought into town and pointef down the streets to deter riots. The Donald also admires Patton’s Third Army that use Sherman Tanks. And finally Tecumseh Sherman’s tactics that won the last Civil War still work.

LYNNDH said...

How about a pair on the front lawn of the White House, with the House zero'd in.

By the way the Dems would probably prefer Good Old Collin K as Grand Master. He just got Nike to pull a new shoe that had an American Flag.

I'm Full of Soup said...

I think Trump should invite Stacey Abrams [Tank] cause she is built like one.

Drago said...

Left Bank of the Charles: "Trump imitates the French."

Yesterdays lefty/LLR hot take: OMG Trump is a dummy who wont follow the example of our sophisticated European allies!

Todays lefty/LLR hot take: OMG Trump is a dummy who is following the example of our sophisticated European allies!!

The lefties/LLR's simply cant help themselves, can they?

Trump must be some kind of stable genius to keep manuevering the left/LLR's into these positions.

n.n said...

But will they take a knee, stand against civil rights, for international instability, and repeat the occupation and violence?

narayanan said...

yesterday I said... Putin is bringing them over!!
,,The United States provided tens of thousands of its Medium Tank M4, also named the Sherman, to many of its Allies during the Second World War, under the terms of Lend-Lease.,,

thanks for your support :

alanc709 said... Soviets used to have thousands of factory-new T-34s warehoused in Siberia, so maybe we got some new Shermans from them.

QED: Chuck is beaten again!

Drago said...

Remember all the way back to yesterday when LLR Chuck was trying to lie his way out of his very own Smear Merchant admissionn and how LLR Chuck cried and cried and cried that no one would allow that he simply mispoke and he wanted to take back the admission that perfectly describes his actions on this blog over the last 3 years?

Good times, good times.

traditionalguy said...

They need have Brad Pitt to bring Fury with him. The movie is a collection of incidents of the valor in the Fourth Armored’s push into Germany in 1945 . The damn Germans defended their homeland extra hard.

Beasts of England said...

'Do yours come on bikes?'

Of course not! Sharks with friggin' lasers obviously ride on brand new Sherman tanks!! ;)

Narr said...

Actually, men like Dimitri Loza who served in the Red Army Sherman tank units, loved them.
They were reliable, easy to service, ergonomically efficient, and had detachable radio sets and electrical generators that were easily adapted to serve in the supply echelons. (It was a weapons system.)

It wasn't a prefect tank. The perfect tank did not exist. And for the "crummy Sherman" school, the number of enlisted armored force casualties was a mere 7K; the infantry took 633k; the engineers took 4 times and the medics 3 times the casualties of the tank crews.

Narr
Belton Cooper was a crank



Narr

Narr said...

"Prefect" tank. Sorry.

Narr
Moar caffeine!

Freder Frederson said...

You know if I called our "newest" tank a Sherman, rather than an Abrams, this thread would turn into a full scale ridicule of me led by Michael K. Calling me field Marshall (or maybe marshal) and Drago claiming I lied about Cliven Bundy (never figured out exactly what the lie was). Hell, I bet you would ridicule me if I called our newest tank an m1.lo

Michael K said...

Hell, I bet you would ridicule me if I called our newest tank an m1.lo

Freder it is hard to list all the reasons why you are ridiculed.

Balfegor said...

Re: Leland:

Thanks Allen, here's more from Obama's time in office, which just shows that Trump is doing what Obama and other Presidents did, but the media hates it because Trump.

Oh, I remember that . . . but I don't think I ever went to the independence day celebrations while Obama was President. I think I'm recalling an 1812 Overture performance from even earlier, when Bush II was President.

readering said...

Wake me up on July 5. Has USA beaten England yet?

Jeff Brokaw said...

Brian 9:30am for the win.

On the one hand, I have never thought to myself “I wish they had tanks in a Fourth of July parade”. But on the other hand, hey, why not?

People who get all amped up about silliness like this — it’s a parade, people — tell us a lot about themselves and nothing about anything else.

Fen said...

You know if I called our "newest" tank a Sherman, rather than an Abrams, this thread would turn into a full scale ridicule of me

There's still time.

I'm kinda hoping Trump is having a set of new Sherman's made just for the parade.

Then you get to pretend you meant something else because reasons while the thread turns into a full scale ridicule of you.

Fen said...

In Israel, I was lucky enough to have had a Centurion Mk V instead of a Sherman as my tank.

Did you guys have armor ID cards? For the civilians, it was a deck of cards we carried around in Mech Infantry, each card was a silhouette of every current tank employed by both our allies and enemies. Target identification was crucial and constantly practices, especially as so much of our daily routine consisted of "hurry up and wait". So in the hours of doing nothing, you would pull out the deck and quiz your platoon mates on each tank silhouette.

I've never been near an actual Centurion, but I know it's shape and specs like the back of my hand. LOL.

Fen said...

Wake me up on July 5. Has USA beaten England yet?

They aren't playing. England is squaring off against a bunch of overconfident lesbian bitches flying the Rainbow flag, not the American.

I'm rooting for England. So is Murphy.

Fen said...

Next thing you know, Trump will redraft our National Anthem with authoritarian dog whistles about rockets red glare and bombs bursting in air. Just like Hitler!

Darrell said...

I'm sending over ten cases of brand new Sherman M4A3E8 models to the White House, so that Melania can hand them out to kids.

stevew said...

"Mr. Trump is scheduled to deliver his Fourth of July speech from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, becoming the first president in decades to participate in the annual Independence Day event...."

There he goes again, breaking the established rules and proper protocols. So un-Presidential!

Darrell said...

"Mr. Trump is scheduled to deliver his Fourth of July speech from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, becoming the first president in decades to participate in the annual Independence Day event...

Obama can compete by serving his famous chicken poodle soup to the Press out of his roach coach.

Francisco D said...

Trump imitates the French.

Except French tanks have a unique feature.

They move much faster in reverse than in forward.

Bill Peschel said...

The Limeys also nicknamed Shermans "Ronsons," after the brand of cigarette lighter, because the company's motto was "Lights up the first time."

This post mentions that the reason why was because the Shermans used a bad system to store ammunition. Once they solved that problem, they were no more susceptible to "lighting up" as any other tank.

From my time play wargames, I learned quite a bit about the tradeoffs between gun, armor, and engine power in tank design. The Tiger IIs, for example, were fearsome tanks, but they burned gas like crazy and were too heavy to cross smaller bridges.

Yancey Ward said...

It will be interesting to see the anti-Trump protests on Thursday.

Fen said...

Bill I played similar. Do you remember the name of that German anti-air gun that doubled as the most effective tank killer on the board? Fricken Germans. I rolled a tank platoon through as pass and lost every last one. I think I rage quit too. So frustrating.

Milwaukie guy said...

88s.

Drago said...

Alanc709: "They were greatly inferior to what they had. In Israel, I was lucky enough to have had a Centurion Mk V instead of a Sherman as my tank."

Saw quite a few Centurions during my last port visit to Haifa when a retired IAF buddy took me up to the Golan Heights. That was right after the First Gulf War (...for the US that is).

Drago said...

Alanc, were you in both the '67 and '73 fight? Which fronts?

Bay Area Guy said...

Tanks, guns, missiles, jets - let's go all out and scare the shit outta our enemies!

Happy 4th!

paminwi said...

I saw tanks on the National Mall when I went to DC in the 5th grade for a safety patrol trip. I also saw soldiers with weapons!
It was during the Vietnam war and I wonder if the DC leaders had a fit about that, too!
I have pictures of the Lincoln Memorial spray painted with blue peace signs.
I think that's when I started hating protesters that destroy property.

Narr said...

Of course, the dual purpose 88mm; Ambrose was famous for describing nearly every German piece as an 88, and almost all German tanks were Tigers in his books.

Krauts had a very effective Soviet-built 76mm(?)AT gun that they captured in large quantities too.

Narr
Squad Leader Playtester

Fen said...

88s.

That's it. Damn those fuckers. I remember making a big fuss about how they were OP and needed to be nerfed or I wouldn't play again. Which lasted until next game where I chose to be Germany. Ha.

Outstanding weapon.

narciso said...

I thought it was the Oerlikon, but that's one 20 mm


https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/wwii-weapons-the-german-88mm-gun/

Fen said...

Beasts of England said... Wait'll he rolls out the sharks with friggin' laser beams...

How do you roll them out ? Do yours come on bikes?

Hoverboards.

See, the promise of Back To The Future was kept, they just kept it classified.

Narr said...

I've never beaten any Frenchmen (or Germans) in battle myself, so take this cum grano salis.

In WWI, to serve in the French Army was a virtual guarantee of death or wounding. The demographic damage was larger by far than any English-speaking population has ever endured.

The French bore the brunt of the Western effort for most of the war, as might be expected since they were most at threat, but it took too much out of them, psychically and physically.

In 1940, despite legend, they fought pretty well (with notable exceptions) and were defeated by bad leadership as much as panzer divisions. The Krauts lost some 190k casualties in the six weeks--that's no walkover.

Narr
That smarts!

Fen said...

Agreed Narr. I often say that French masculinity died in the trenches of two world wars.

The good men are the ones who go off to defend their homeland, the Chucks stay behind and find some desperate woman to breed with them.

todd galle said...

Well, the Krauts did have a high velocity 75mm tank cannon,not sure about the 76mm. Though they were not against using captured equipment. I think there were artillery pieces from 6 conquered countries on the French coast in 1944. I was recently reading something, either Toland or the German High Command interrogations after the war, that half of the 88's were pointed skyward after D-Day, and couldn't be redeployed as Anti-Tank units. I don't mind tanks in DC, M1's are I think the only one in the inventory. It's been years, but I thought all the M60s have all been withdrawn even from the Guard (although I could be wrong). I'll also bet that the Trump administration has been in contact with MVCC to have Shermans, Stuarts, M-3's, etc. willing to participate in the parade. Rope-A-Dope.

robother said...

Tanks tearing up DC roads? Can't they position the treads so only the bike lanes are tore up?

Leland said...

I agree with Fen on England vs anti-Trumpers, who lost 5-2 to FC-Dallas U-15 boys squad.

Michael K said...


Agreed Narr. I often say that French masculinity died in the trenches of two world wars.

The good men are the ones who go off to defend their homeland, the Chucks stay behind and find some desperate woman to breed with them.


It's why pheasants in South Dakota are all runners. The fliers got shot years ago.

Greg P said...

Blogger Fen said...
Wake me up on July 5. Has USA beaten England yet?

They aren't playing. England is squaring off against a bunch of overconfident lesbian bitches flying the Rainbow flag, not the American.

I'm rooting for England. So is Murphy


Another +1. They want to play anti-American politics? I say F'em

I hope they lose. I hope they get humiliated

narciso said...

the Burleigh book sacred places, opens up at the opening of the cenotaph, the monument to one of the victors of the war, the uk, one can imagine the French, german, et al, suffered even greatly, the power of the Church in fact all organized crumpled a bit in the aftermath, in germany it created all sorts of odd cults, of which the Nazis were just one,

tcrosse said...

Tanks tearing up DC roads? Can't they position the treads so only the bike lanes are tore up?

Do tank treads damage roads?

Narr said...

I need to read that one, narciso--I've browsed it at the store (if it's the one I'm thinking about).

In late 2017, my wife and I stopped at one of the many military cemeteries in the Aisne valley. Quite by chance almost the first German marker we came across was a man who bore the same name as my Opa (who left Kaiserdom about 1909, in his early twenties). The German soldier had been killed in August 1918 aged about 20 IIRC (got the pic here somewhere).

In Europe of course the name wouldn't raise an eyebrow in many languages, but that was spooky.

Narr
Maybe I'll make it my sigel

narciso said...

I picked it up in the discount bin at the library, along with winik's the great upheaval, about 18th century revolutions (successful and unsuccessful) the war to end all wars decidedly did not, now there was a piece about certain iconography, you referred to earlier,

narciso said...

from a guest contributor:


https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/60102.html#comment-1020042

Daniel Jackson said...

Tanks, Hawks, and Grunts marching in Battle Fatigues--they should all be adorned with desert sands.

Fourth of July with a military presence is fine; but, I'm waiting for the parade after the reelection--I pray there are LOTS of military gear since it honors the Commander in Chief and that meta-message needs to be sent, like the Shot of Lexington, around the world.

God Bless these United States and its duly elected Commander in Chief.

narciso said...

here is the first overview:


http://mediotutissimus.blogspot.com/2011/04/sacred-causes-michael-burleigh-part-1.html

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"Well if we have "brand new Sherman tanks" it will be just like that grand 4th of July in 1945 that I unfortunately missed because my parents had not yet met each other."

What year did your father frequent that brothel, Chuck?

ken in tx said...

Maybe the Brand New Sherman tanks can be manned by the Obama Tank Corpse.

Rusty said...


"Krauts had a very effective Soviet-built 76mm(?)AT gun that they captured in large quantities too."

Before the relationship went south a lot of German armor was built in the Soviet Union.

ken in tx said...

Actually most GIs hate parades. When I was an AF aircraft mechanic, I hated fly overs. It meant that I had to work on a holiday that usually purported to honor the armed forces. Big honor..not.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

“You’ve got to be pretty careful with the tanks because the roads have a tendency not to like to carry heavy tanks,” Mr. Trump said, acknowledging the damage that such heavy vehicles could do to Washington’s transportation network. “So we have to put them in certain areas.” The president did not say where those areas would be...."

How about right in front of the WaPo, CNN, and NBC offices?

narciso said...

that would be something out of that frank miller graphic novel, 'give me liberty' I swear it's like half of the prog craziness comes from these pages,

JAORE said...

"Dear Democrats, I cordially invite you to appear to loathe the US military. Please accept. Yours, Donald."

Yep. First post and he nails it.

FWIW, when I worked in DC (and in concert with the DC Dept of Transportation) I saw the specs for the asphalt mix on main roads.

Very little large aggregate, very course, hard fine aggregate. Not tank ready, methinks.

Nichevo said...

What year did your father frequent that brothel, Chuck?

What makes you think his father was the customer?

Greg P said...

Nichevo said...
What year did your father frequent that brothel, Chuck?

What makes you think his father was the customer?


Because most prostitutes have more sense than Chuck