July 18, 2019

"President Trump on Thursday disavowed the 'send her back' chant that broke out at his re-election rally Wednesday night..."

"... when he railed against a Somali-born congresswoman, as Republicans in Congress rushed to distance themselves and their party from the ugly refrain. Mr. Trump said he was 'not happy' with the chant [and] claimed that he had tried to cut off the chant, an assertion contradicted by video of the event. Asked why he did not stop it, Mr. Trump said, 'I think I did — I started speaking very quickly.' In fact, as the crowd roared 'send her back,' Mr. Trump looked around silently and paused as the scene unfolded in front of him, doing nothing to halt the chorus. 'I was not happy with it,' Mr. Trump said on Thursday at the White House. 'I disagree with it.'"

From "Trump Disavows ‘Send Her Back’ Chant as G.O.P. Frets Over Ugly Phrase" (NYT).

Are we supposed to have a big debate about what was in his head at the time and whether he — the only one with access to the place — is lying when he purports to tell us what was going on inside? Do we have nothing better to do?! The important thing is that he's distancing himself from the chant and letting his fans know they shouldn't chant it.

We talked about the chant earlier this morning, and I took a poll. Here are the results (with almost a thousand voters):

Screen Shot 2019-07-18 at 4.30.27 PM

I'm surprised anyone voted for the disgusting option, "Yes. It's thrilling to see one individual singled out and scared." I'm going to assume those were trolls. That was the last of the "yes" options, and it led to "no" options, the first 3 of which signaled why that last "yes" ooption was off-the-charts bad. Perhaps some voters were influenced by the Alinsky answer: "Yes. Alinsky said it best: 'Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.'" I think that nudges some people to think: The left would do it to the right, so the right should do it to the left.

I like to develop and express my opinion through poll options, and I try to write each one fully committing to the state of mind one would need to make that choice. Sometimes I do polls when I don't really have a right answer in mind. But in this case, my answer was most certainly "no," and I really felt like an actor playing a villain when I was composing 2 or 3 of those "yes" options.

ADDED: Assess "I started speaking very quickly" for yourself:


If you've watched that whole video, please vote here:

Did Trump lie when he said "I started speaking very quickly"?
 
pollcode.com free polls

260 comments:

1 – 200 of 260   Newer›   Newest»
Beasts of England said...

I pressed 1 for English...

Fen said...

as Republicans in Congress rushed to distance themselves and their party from the ugly refrain

Now that I'm registered as an independent, I don't feel the need to defend the GOP as I once did, especially after the Establishment Wing betrayed the base on our pact to unite behind the party's nominee. We held our nose for their RINOs, and when it was their turn they went NeverTrump.

Anyways... I find it amusing that the Republicans are distancing themselves. Because the Left and the Media will unfairly paint them as racist xenophobes?

That's like a cat in a lake furiously paddling to shore because the approaching storm might get her wet.

Beasts of England said...

1,133 total 'Yes' votes and 761 total 'No' votes.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The media whining is too much to take.

Fen said...

"I was not happy with it", Mr. Trump said..."I disagree with it."

Shrug. Okay.

When you go on the offensive, the risk is always overplaying your hand. It's going to happen, accept it and make corrections as needed. If you DONT have this kind of trouble, it means you are trying hard enough.

The GOP has a bad habit of doing the opposite: they are always erring on the side of caution. This is why, no matter what small victories they may have, they are always reacting, always on the defensive, always giving up momentum to the other side.

I would rather lose from overplaying my hand than from being too timid.

Christopher said...

Meh, this and Trump's Tweet are your standard political drama where the various activists/obsessives will scream that the sky is falling and everybody else will ignore it and get on with their lives.

Oso Negro said...

So.... a member of the United States Congress is a "relatively powerless individual"? I wonder what that makes the rest of us? You know, regular people who can be denounced at any moment for failing to kiss the banner du jour. If being a member of the United States Congress is disagreeable to her, she has choices, including returning to her native Somalia, where her views will doubtless be celebrated. So yeah, fuck her and the fake family connection she rode in on.

Fen said...

Sorry for the cluttering edit, but that was too confusing to let stand, should be:

When you go on the offensive, the risk is always overplaying your hand. It's going to happen, accept it and make corrections as needed. If you don't have this kind of trouble, it means you are not trying hard enough.

/fixed

Jim at said...

My option would've been:

Don't care. Sick and tired of only side being allowed to spew hate out of every orifice in their bodies and then scream the victim when it inevitably comes back. So, fuck off.

American Liberal Elite said...

Trump's next rally may provide him the opportunity to unequivocally quelch the "send her back" folks.

narciso said...

with the news, you can have any color car, like henry ford said


whttps://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/scott-whitlock/2019/07/18/cbss-gayle-king-ilhan-omar-and-squad-love-country-so-much

Drago said...

American Liberal Elite: "Trump's next rally may provide him the opportunity to unequivocally quelch the "send her back" folks."

Not squelch.

Redirect.

Sprezzatura said...

"The important thing is that he's distancing himself from the chant and letting his fans know they shouldn't chant it."

Right!

And, don't forget that Althouse also highlighted how DJT told the crowd that it's bad to use naughty language.

Like Althouse, we all know that the important messages get where they're meant to go.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Let me see if I got this right. Everyone (elected official and private citizen) who supports trump has to condemn the spontaneous crowd chant.

But AOC (let alone any other elected representative or Dem supporter) can refuse to condem a domestic terrorist attack on an ICE facility who used the exact language of AOC uses of calling detention facilities "concentration camps."

This is why we don't give a fuck about the Dems outrage of the day.

Danno said...

Marquess of Queensberry rules are for losers (like Mittens) when the left always follows Alinsky.

Sebastian said...

"Are we supposed to have a big debate about what was in his head at the time and whether he — the only one with access to the place — is lying when he purports to tell us what was going on inside?"

Umm, no, we are not supposed to be having a "big debate." We are supposed to swallow the prog narrative.

"Do we have nothing better to do?!"

Inching close the old "I-can't believe" the MSM would do x shtick--watch out! But who dat we? Actually, for progs nothing is better than resisting Trump by any means necessary.

"The important thing is that he's distancing himself from the chant and letting his fans know they shouldn't chant it"

Why is that "the important thing"? The important thing is that the prog MSM are continuing their assault. They don't give a damn about what you find important, or about the odd notion that there might be something more important to do. Face it: your sensibilities are irrelevant.

Jim at said...

refuse to condem a domestic terrorist attack on an ICE facility

Refuse to condemn? They're celebrating him as a martyristic hero.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Send her back! Send her back! Send her back! Send her back! Send her back!

traditionalguy said...

No it will elicit sympathy for Omar is the answer.Because the independent women vote is what this is all about. Losing that is Trump’s Achilles heal.no body cares about looking tough. Just win.

Narr said...

OK, can you break down the way individuals spread their "all that apply" votes?

I think Alinsky-tactics are fair (1 yes) but also marked the three last no options.
No single one expressed my opinion very closely.

Narr
Nothing new there

Beasts of England said...

I have no problem with him walking back the chant - he accomplished his goal of making Omar and the three ingrates the face of the Democrat party.

mockturtle said...

Molehill----->Mountain

GRW3 said...

He did not DISAVOW his supporters, he said he didn’t like the chant. Huge difference there. I’m kind of waiting for part 2, when he asked why the media hasn’t asked the democrat enablers of the Squad why thy haven’t disavowed their vile statements.

Susan said...

Maybe he could encourage the next rally crowd to denounce the Squad for planning to push granny off a cliff, force women to die in the streets, give women cancer or be LITERALLY HITLER!

J. Farmer said...

This whole brouhaha (and others like it) are a terrific gift to the Establishment. The Establishment, which owns both parties, is way more important and way more powerful than Omar can ever hope to be. They are more powerful than Trump is. And of course now everybody is talking about this nonsense issue, Never Trumpers are circling the wagon, Ever Trumpers are making their defenses, and the beat goes on. As it always does. It kind of reminds me of when nobody cared much about immigration back in 2004 but were convinced fags getting married were going destroy America.

Fen said...

Why is that "the important thing"? The important thing is that the prog MSM are continuing their assault.

That will be interesting to observe: the warning has always been that Trump should never apologize, because they will just see that as weakness and redouble.

I sometimes show haters my belly to see what their true nature is. An offer of rapprochement made in good faith. It's a win-win, you either get peace or, if they spit in your face, you can now employ what were once unsavory tactics without remorse or guilt.

Will be curious to see if Trump is doing something similar. He can say "see, I denounced X and still they accuse me of it"

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

This gets even better. I just ran back from Ace's place.

It turns out the Democratic Senator Durban and representatives Naddler tried to deport assistant to the president Trump because of unfounded rumors on Twitter.

This is the same Senator Durban who refuses to discuss his extensive contacts with the guy who attemped to assassinate the entire Republican softball team.

stevew said...

What was Trump thinking? Read his words as expressed in the tweet. He wasn't arguing to 'send her back' so saying he doesn't like that expression is wholly consistent with his intial tweet(s). And he never called Ohan out by name.

Anyway, all the caterwaul is just more of the same civility bullshit. Althouse's best tag ever.

Ann Althouse said...

"1,133 total 'Yes' votes and 761 total 'No' votes."

You could vote for as many as you want, so there's no way to know the total "yes" votes vs. "no" votes. "Yes" voters may have liked more of the different answers and clicked as many as 6, while "no" voters may have seen fewer good answers. Also I know at least one person who voted for a "yes" option and a "no" option!

Fen said...

but were convinced homosexuals getting married were going destroy America.

I still believe the normalization of homosexuality is bad for civilization.

What led me to finally support homosexual marriage was

1) the real suffering of good people weighed against a subjective theory, and

2) realization it was akin to worrying over a leaky faucet as Hurricane Katrina rolled in.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Oops forgot to finish.

So yeah, fuck your insincere outrage.

Ace.mu.nu

stevew said...

@Fen: the Left still speak the lie about Trump and his remarks about the Charlottesville incident. Good faith is not in their nature.

rcocean said...

This is why apologizing and "Disavowing" NEVER Works! Trump has 'Disavowed' every KKK Neo-nazi white supremacist 100 times. Does that stop the Press or the Demcorats from attacking Trump 24/7? Of course not. Does that stop them from demanding Trump "disavow" the same people over and over? Of course not.

Trump says he doesn't agree with the Chanters and the NYT/WaPo just call him a liar. Its absolutely absurd. Yet these dumb Cucks and RINO's keep thinking that if only the Republicans keep their heads down and "Don't give them any ammunition" the press/Democrats won't call THEM racist. Despite it NEVER working.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Too bad Trump didn’t have the courage to tell the mob that he doesn’t approve of the chant. Maybe he didn’t because it wouldn’t be believable.

J. Farmer said...

@Fen:

I still believe the normalization of homosexuality is bad for civilization.

That's fine. But in politics, priority matters. You can't do everything at once. Until people start circling the wagon, understanding that immigration is the most important issue, and become single-issue voters on that subject, then the Establishment's divide and conquer strategy will continue to work, as it has worked for decades. Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump. Everyone gets worked up in a tizzy and act as if the fate of the Republic hangs in the balance of the outcome of the election, and then no matter who gets elected, the Establishment gets what it wants.

narciso said...

it's different when they do it,


https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/18/democrats-threatened-deport-top-trump-aide-media-yawned/

Fen said...

Steve, agreed.

I think Trump still doesn't get that. I remember reading him say that, while he always knew the left-wing media was biased against Republicans, he didn't realize just how unfair they were until he became President.

He doesn't have our decades of experience on this. Hope he catches up.

rcocean said...

The Democrats NEVER have to apologize and disavow. The sainted "Independents" never get vapors over the Democrats saying bad things. The only time the get upset is when the Republican fight back. Rod Dreher is typical of these sort of cucks. He just wrote an article where he's so upset at Trump's "GO back" rally that he'll support an open borders, pro-abortion, anti-religious freedom Democrat in 2020. Its called the Benedict Arnold option.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“I sometimes show haters my belly to see what their true nature is.”

Hahahahaha, you take yourself far too seriously.

J. Farmer said...

@rcocean:

Yet these dumb Cucks and RINO's keep thinking that if only the Republicans keep their heads down and "Don't give them any ammunition" the press/Democrats won't call THEM racist. Despite it NEVER working.

It's even worse than that. They want him to fail. Why would they ever give him good advice? But Trump keeps falling for it, because he has an incredibly pathetic need and desire to be liked and accepted. I find it quite shocking that anyone today still believes Trump is some kind of master strategists or is playing 4D chess.

Bay Area Guy said...

Marquess of Queensberry rules are for losers (like Mittens) when the left always follows Alinsky

This is the existential problem we face - -asymmetrical warfare. Both in our real wars and in these sillier, political/culture "wars."

Example:

Omar makes anti-semitic statements about the Jews. The MSM tepidly reports it, it goes away in a day or 2, nothing happens.

Trump says," Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done?" -- and all hell breaks loose in DC.

This isn't whining, nor "whataboutism". Trump dishes it out, so he has to take it, too.

But the asymmetry is so blatant now and so pervasive, that it's hard to take any newspaper or major media story seriously. Same with the college campuses.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Ok. One more bit of outrage. I just finished reading the story.

It turns out Durban and Nadler wanted to deport the Gorka guy for a false report he belonged to an anti-semitic group back in Hungary.

So if belonging to an anti-semitic group alone (no evidence the guy was anti-semitic himself) justifies being deported, then Omar is much worse. She is an antisemite and she belongs to a group the is anti-semitic.

Send Her Back under the Nadler and Durban rules.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“I find it quite shocking that anyone today still believes Trump is some kind of master strategists or is playing 4D chess.”

Hallelujah!

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J. Farmer said...

@narciso:

it's different when they do it,

Wait, you mean people involved in professional politics are phoneys and hypocrites? Someone get the smelling salts!

Bill, Republic of Texas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sprezzatura said...

"You could vote for as many as you want, so there's no way to know the total "yes" votes vs. "no" votes. "Yes" voters may have liked more of the different answers and clicked as many as 6, while "no" voters may have seen fewer good answers. Also I know at least one person who voted for a "yes" option and a "no" option!"

Not to mention that I had trouble figurin' which option best meant: 'Yes, because this results in a wonderful safe space for xenophobes and racists to be free from the disapproving PC police.'

Like some blogs.

J. Farmer said...

@Inga:

Hallelujah!

Before you praise ye Lord too much, I've already donated to the campaign and plan on voting for him in 2020. I still prefer a benign incompetent to a malignant pro.

steve uhr said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Not to mention that I had trouble figurin' which option best meant: 'Yes, because this results in a wonderful safe space for xenophobes and racists to be free from the disapproving PC police.'

I would enjoy shooting Nazis in the streets, but they still have the right to march down Main street and express their views.

So I don't.

J. Farmer said...

@Bill, Republic of Texas:

She is an antisemite and she belongs to a group the is anti-semitic.

I've never quite understood why people on right are so often (correctly) contemptuous of Social Justice Warrior politics until the charge is anti-semitism. And then they turn into Abe Foxman.

robother said...

Based on my mind-meld with Trump, I can assure America that sending Omar back to Somalia is the last thing he wants to do. Nor does he wish AOC back to Puerto Rico. He has big plans for each of them in the upcoming election, and is simply doing his best to guarantee them a central role on the Democratic ticket. As every right-thinking American of whatever party should.

Browndog said...

The entire rally was awesome. Even with the 'chant' which took up less time than the libtard protester, that got his thunder stolen and would be famous today otherwise.

I suggest you watch the entire event on youtube, and enjoy.

Sprezzatura said...

Fen,

Also, you'd massively cut down the numbers re rally participants.

DJT would be pissed.

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Inga: Hahahahaha, you take yourself far too seriously

How can I not when you follow me from thread to thread, pining on my every utterance?

You're crushing on me, aren't you? Is it because I smack you around?

Fen said...

Also, you'd massively cut down the numbers re rally participants.

Yah. From 12 Nazis to 11...

Jeff said...

You left off the correct choice, which is:

Who gives a shit?

J. Farmer said...

"Appoint myself the obituarist of Britain. I'm writing the obituary of the country in the hope that people in the future will read it and realize that a happy, prosperous, civilized country can turn itself into hell in a matter of decades, and this is how it's done. Don't do it yourselves."

-Peter Hitchens, the obituarist of Britain

It is not a position I would mind appointing myself except I have no delusions that anyone in the future will read anything I've written.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You could vote for as many as you want,

True.

I voted for 3 Yes options and one No option That one was...... No It will play into the perception that Trump voters are fascists.

It seems that some people, like Beasts of England, want to live in a black and white type of world with no middle ground.

Beasts of England said...

I added them up trying to gauge how many people voted more than once - and was interested in the dispersal, professor. It didn't occur to me that people would vote for some mixture of yes and no, although it's an interesting thought.

Of course it's unscientific, but the mixture of pro and con seems to be a decent reflection of the commentariat.

J. Farmer said...

@Browndog:

The entire rally was awesome

Honestly, who cares? That Trump can put on a good show and wind up his opponents has been known for some time now.

narciso said...

siade barre's src was a combination of Marxist, nationalist and islam, yes he switched to the us at the end, grasping at straws, fighting menghistus derge, didn't stop the inevitable collapse, which led the rule of the technical driving militias like that of farah aidid, which gave al queda an opening,

Fen said...

There's a girl at the rally standing behind Trump, to the right of him. Maybe 10 or 11. When the chant starts she looks confused, and then sort of starts to chant with the crowd. Felt like she should have been protected from that situation. She's a kid.

You're clutching those pearls too hard, treating "send her back" as the nword or something.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Before you praise ye Lord too much, I've already donated to the campaign and plan on voting for him in 2020. I still prefer a benign incompetent to a malignant pro.

Your choice. I can’t agree he’s a benign incompetent. He may be incompetent, but his hateful rhetoric does it’s own sort of damage to the US. There are lots of cultists who will follow him no matter what and it may not be as harmless as you may think.

purplepenquin said...

The sainted "Independents" never get vapors over the Democrats saying bad things

You sure about that? Fen identifies as such and yet he gets all worked up when Dems say bad things. And sometimes even good things. And practically anything, for that matter.


Tho, now that I think about it...can someone really be considered an "independent" if they have already decided how they are gonna vote in a election that won't be held for over a year yet?

Beasts of England said...

'It seems that some people, like Beasts of England, want to live in a black and white type of world with no middle ground.'

Wow. I have degrees in finance and economics, with a strong concentration in statistics. I'm an economic analyst by trade, and your simplistic assessment is a reflection upon you. Black and white, perhaps...

Fen said...

You sure about that? Fen identifies as such and yet he gets all worked up when Dems say bad things.

Bad example. He means actual Independents. Not the people that left the Democrat/Republican party but still vote the way they did. Even pollsters make that distinction.

I will never vote for a Democrat.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“There's a girl at the rally standing behind Trump, to the right of him. Maybe 10 or 11. When the chant starts she looks confused, and then sort of starts to chant with the crowd. Felt like she should have been protected from that situation. She's a kid.”

The child was being indoctrinated.

J. Farmer said...

@Inga:

He may be incompetent, but his hateful rhetoric does it’s own sort of damage to the US. There are lots of cultists who will follow him no matter what and it may not be as harmless as you may think.

I agree that every president as ardent followers who will defend them no matter what, just as they have ardent detractors who will attack them no matter what. But I think you agree that I am a reasonable person who is not prone to partisan or tribal sympathies. So let me put an honest question to you. Obama destroyed a country, Libya, and turned the country into an anarchic hellhole. The subsequent fall out also helped destabilize Mali and contribute to a massive refugee crisis in the Mediterranean, the effects of which we are still dealing with. Now ask yourself two questions: (1) how is Obama treated in polite society; and (2) has Trump's rhetoric caused anything remotely comparable to the damage Obama's actions caused in Libya?

Fen said...

Farmer: I find it quite shocking that anyone today still believes Trump is some kind of master strategists or is playing 4D chess.

Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton could not be reached for comment.

How do you explain all that?

Browndog said...

Blogger J. Farmer said...

@Browndog:

The entire rally was awesome

Honestly, who cares?


Nope, not a nihilist. Even if you were, who cares?

purplepenquin said...

Even pollsters make that distinction

You mean like the distinction between depressing voter turnout and discouraging citizens from voting? 'cause if so, then there isn't one...

J. Farmer said...

@Fen:

How do you explain all that?

Mostly, dumb luck. Plus Trump in an odd sort of way is kind of an everyman and had an instinctual understanding for resonant issues, like immigration, mistrust of military adventurism, and suspicion towards "free" trade deals. The latter two had been traditional Democratic positions.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“...has Trump's rhetoric caused anything remotely comparable to the damage Obama's actions caused in Libya?”

Give him time.

Browndog said...

I can't believe we're not talking about the baby, That beautiful baby.

Hitler's baby

Fen said...

The entire rally was awesome

Farmer: Honestly, who cares?

I just joined the "Melissa's Wedding" reddit group. They chat alot about flowers and cakes, and colors and the font on the monogrammed napkins.

I just sit back and throw cold water on it all with "who cares?"

It's getting me lots of attention. You should come with. You would enjoy it.

J. Farmer said...

@Browndog:

Nope, not a nihilist. Even if you were, who cares?

How difficult is it to preach to the converted? Was there anyone at that rally who showed up planning to vote for Elizabeth Warren but had their minds changed by Trump?

narciso said...

we knew a fellow peter bocking, he passed away in 2009, who had some dirgeful views about his home country,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/18/tory-leadership-latest-mps-considerresigning-stop-parliament/

Fen said...

Farmer: Mostly, dumb luck.

You actually think Trump's rise through the primaries, dispatching Bush and Cruz, and then Hillary - the most stunning political upset in American history - was dumb luck?

Josephbleau said...

Omar accused Trump of having sexual relations with his mother, so I am not one who cares much how he responds to her.

J. Farmer said...

@Fen:

It's getting me lots of attention. You should come with. You would enjoy it.

Feel free to ignore me. And I didn't realize this was the Trump support group.

J. Farmer said...

@Fen:

You actually think Trump's rise through the primaries, dispatching Bush and Cruz, and then Hillary - the most stunning political upset in American history - was dumb luck?

Yes. I "actually think" everything I say I think.

Browndog said...

Was there anyone at that rally who showed up planning to vote for Elizabeth Warren but had their minds changed by Trump?

I don't know.

Being presumptive or smug?

J. Farmer said...

@Inga:

Give him time.

That's a slippery way to ignore the questions, Inga. Come on, I'm trying to have an honest respectful conversation with you. Your essentially saying that Trump is worse than Obama because of what Trump will potentially do in the future.

Earnest Prole said...

Cue Althouse commenters suddenly grasping 14-dimensional-chess genius of 180-degree reversal.

J. Farmer said...

@Browndog:

Being presumptive or smug?

Probably a little of both. But generally I consider political rallies a preaching to the choir. That's why I don't attend or watch them. As I said, Trump's skill at working a crowd is well attested. It isn't anything I am interested in. Obama was quite good, too. Still didn't stop me from opposing most of what he did.

Fen said...

You actually think Trump's rise through the primaries, dispatching Bush and Cruz, and then Hillary - the most stunning political upset in American history - was dumb luck?

Farmer: Yes. I "actually think" everything I say I think.

Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle

Bay Area Guy said...

I guess the next Trump crowd of slobbering idiotic 14-dimensional political chess experts should throw a few curveballs to the political crowd:

"Lock her back!"

"Send her up!"

May our enemies stay confused.

traditionalguy said...

We give Trump time to think. Besides we wouldn’t leave him if he shot someone at noon on Madison Ave. It’s a Scots-Irish thing.

Henry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

Farmer: It isn't anything I am interested in.

As you've reminded us continuously over the last 2 hours.

We get it.

Isn't there something you would rather be doing?

Henry said...

If you voted for the Alinsky answer, you voted for the thrilling answer. They are the same answer.

I know the counter arguments. First is the excuse that conservatives have to use dirty tactics to fight back against those dirty leftists (some of who are using the exact same excuse to justify dirty tactics against dirty conservatives). Second is to blame Alinsky, because he codified some boilerplate propaganda tactics. Third, and slightly different is the utilitarian argument that in a dirty fight you use whatever tactics are most effective.

But why are those tactics effective? They are effective because mobs love the thrilling spectacle of destroying an individual.

MBunge said...

"Yes. I "actually think" everything I say I think."


If you believe Trump's rise to the White House to be mostly "dumb luck," then I don't believe you actually do anything like "think."

I mean, it certainly wasn't entirely through Trump's own efforts. He didn't have much to do with Hillary getting the Democratic nomination. But the idea that Trump succeeded through "dumb luck" is just an excuse to avoid dealing with why he actually won.

Mike

J. Farmer said...

@Fen:

Isn't there something you would rather be doing?

As I said, feel free to ignore me.

chuck said...

Can't say I care. It's not like the crowd is going to go all antifa on her ass.

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

I didn't vote but: the chant is not a good one, and Trump shouldn't have anything to do with inciting it. Omar is in the U.S. legally, no one should call her out by name and say she should be deported. I was willing to say Trump was joking when he said "love it, leave, or go to your home country and then come back and tell us what you've learned." I didn't think he literally meant anyone should leave. Now my son will definitely think he won this argument.

Henry said...

I'm surprised anyone voted for the disgusting option, "Yes. It's thrilling to see one individual singled out and scared."

I would assume they're some of your commenters.

mockturtle said...

Trump won largely because the American people are a lot smarter than the MSM give them credit for.

traditionalguy said...

There is a story tonight that Israel is going to refuse the two Jew haters admission on a Congressional Trip to see the hill country of Samaria and Judea. Bibi to the rescue.

J. Farmer said...

MBunge:

But the idea that Trump succeeded through "dumb luck" is just an excuse to avoid dealing with why he actually won.

As I said originally, Trump was opposed to immigration, dumb foreign wars, and "free" trade agreements that involved shipping American work overseas. Those issues all resonated and were the deciding factor. I think he came to those issues mostly instinctively and did not have some master strategy beforehand to use them to win. I am not even sure Trump entirely expected (or wanted) to win. He also had some good nationalist voices in the background, like Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller.

Fen said...

Isn't there something you would rather be doing?

Farmer: As I said, feel free to ignore me.

Nah, I'm having too much fun spotlighting your little game.

Tell me, did you find the Trump rally interesting?

MBunge said...

"Third, and slightly different is the utilitarian argument that in a dirty fight you use whatever tactics are most effective."


There's a fourth argument, which I think is the best of them all: people don't understand what they're doing wrong until it's done to them. For example, you might want to take a gander at The Federalist and how Democrats tried to deport a naturalized U.S. citizen for the thoughtcrime of supporting Trump.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/18/democrats-threatened-deport-top-trump-aide-media-yawned/

Mike

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Your essentially saying that Trump is worse than Obama because of what Trump will potentially do in the future.”

Yes. It pure dumb luck he hasn’t caused anything catastrophic yet. He has the potential. Don’t you see it? World despotic leaders haven’t always been highly intelligent, they’ve been driven by their ideology and found ways to get the dumb, the naive, the hateful, the twisted, to follow them.

Trump could’ve had little Kim close to launching a nuke, who knows. Trump isn’t a safe leader, he’s not playing with a full deck.

Michael K said...

It kind of reminds me of when nobody cared much about immigration back in 2004 but were convinced fags getting married were going destroy America.

Interesting you bring that up. Many people date the loss of the culture to that decision.

It led to LGBTQ agitation and gender fluid politics. The Prop 8 controversy in California was due to the proposition winning 63% of the vote, then was declared unconstitutional by a judge who then married his gay lover.

We went from tolerance to mandatory celebration with bakers and florists being sued to enforce the decision in spite of any religious reservation. Little Sisters of the Poor have to provide abortion to employees, all as a result of the victory over traditional culture.

Civil Unions could have addressed all the needs of gay couples. There may come a day when this decision and the fallout will be regretted by the advocates.

Browndog said...

Public Service Announcement:

This morning, I just happened to be walking by a radio that had FOX NEWS RADIO on. Brian Kilmeade was interviewing Chris Wallace about the whole kerfuffle. Wallace was pretty sure the whole "send her back" thingy was a serious, maybe near fatal blow to the Trump campaign.

Towards the end, Kilmeade read the infamous Trump tweet, and Wallace surmised that tweet could be a "federal crime".

Tune in to Fox News Sunday for more "fair and balanced" coverage of today's events.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Nah, I'm having too much fun spotlighting your little game.”

Farmer could’ve said this to you Fenny.

“... you follow me from thread to thread, pining on my every utterance?

You're crushing on me, aren't you? Is it because I smack you around?”

MBunge said...

"I think he came to those issues mostly instinctively and did not have some master strategy beforehand to use them to win."


Again, that's not actually thinking. Trump's been atop the American political scene for almost three years now. We've got this little thing called EVIDENCE of how he does and does not operate. That evidence supports the theory that, while Trump is not some 8th dimensional grandmaster, he does employ both tactical and strategic thinking.

Mike

J. Farmer said...

@Fen:

Tell me, did you find the Trump rally interesting?

Didn't watch it. Have no interest in it. But as I said, I'm sure once Texas and Florida are turned blue bu demography, we'll always have those great rallies to give us solace.

wbfjrr2 said...

Re this poll, there’s unscientific, then there is gibberish..this one is the latter.

Curious why you didn’t include “don’t give a shit” as an option. Wouldn’t fit your sensibilities I guess. It would have won, hands down.

J. Farmer said...

@MBunge:

That evidence supports the theory that, while Trump is not some 8th dimensional grandmaster, he does employ both tactical and strategic thinking.

Virtually everyone does. What I said was that Trump's reputation as a master strategist is overblown.

Fen said...

Inga: could’ve said this to you Fenny.

Keep it up and Purple's going to hamstring you. She's the jealous type.

Fen and his Super Friends. I'm so blessed...

J. Farmer said...

@Michael K:

Interesting you bring that up. Many people date the loss of the culture to that decision.

I think the 1965 immigration reform was infinitely more important. The dynamics of globalism and the destruction it wrought were already under way at least 20-30 years before "gay marriage" was anywhere near the horizon.

purplepenquin said...

Nah, I'm having too much fun spotlighting your little game

I'd find it kinda fun if you would explain how "depress voter turnout" isn't anything at all like "discourage citizens from voting".

And for more fun, can we talk about how you are a self-described "monster" who doesn't post in good faith? As long as we're spotlighting stuff, lets take a gander at that one as well.

Assuming, of course, you can break away from that subreddit you were bragging about pissing all over...if that is whats keeping you too busy to respond here&now then I can ask you again another time.

J. Farmer said...

@Inga:

He has the potential. Don’t you see it?

Pretty much anyone with that much power has the potential. But again, if you are saying we must hold Trump in contempt for what he has the potential to do, then you must agree with me that Obama must be held in contempt for what he actually did. You cannot have it both ways.

Ken B said...

I think it perfectly obvious people would vote for your disgusting option. My guess is you don’t understand their answer. The vote is a tweak at you for such an obvious play.

In many questionnaires an idiot-filter question is added, people routinely select it. Several percent of respondents aver they are dead whenever that question is used. That is the same phenomenon.

Temujin said...

It's all so breathless, isn't it? And I heard Ilhan Omar talking today about how dissent is patriotism. Of course. We heard that when G.W Bush was President. And when we dissented Obama's policies we were called...wait for it...Racists! Yes, of course. During Obama's 8 years, dissent was nothing more than racism.

Before Trump got elected the Obama Administration was already spying on him and his team. The FBI and CIA finally managed to work together on something. Only it wasn't national security, it was spying on Trump, writing up fictional dossiers, submitting false FISA requests, and pumping enough leaks to the media to fill 24 hour cable worldwide for 3 years.

This is all called dissent. Now 4 of the lowest caliber people who happen to be women of color Democrats, spend their time berating all of America, white folk, Jew folk, Christian folk, Conservative folk, and some black folk and other dems- and they call that dissent. It's hate when a Republican talks that way. It's dissent when Women of Color talk that way. And of course, when you call them on it, you are called....here it comes....Racist!

I not playing. Screw them. Screw them. Socialists and anti-semites. I will push back at every chance I have to do so. This game ends now.

narciso said...

but where did gay marriage, come from, it's about what the apostle spoke on nearly 2,000 years ag0

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7237171/Library-BANS-playgroup-fives-rhyme-time-session.html

Fen said...

I not playing. Screw them. Screw them. Socialists and anti-semites. I will push back at every chance I have to do so. This game ends now.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

purplepenquin said...

It pure dumb luck he hasn’t caused anything catastrophic yet. He has the potential.

As Mr. Farmer just said, everyone has that potential. But as it stands now, Obama was much more of a war-monger than Trump is. Yes, that may change in the years to come...but that is the reality right now.

There is plenty of things Trump has already actually done that one can criticize him for - there is no need to judge him over things you beleive he might do in the future.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Farmer,

"What I said was that Trump's reputation as a master strategist is overblown."

Overthinking. Nobody cares whether he is a master strategist. We just like that he fights back against: (a) political correctness, (b) the open borders crowd, and (c) the globalist crowd.

He also genuinely loves his country and is highly entertaining. Also, the economy is good, and every President takes credit for a good economy, and takes the fall, if it's bad.

All I can say is that I am pleasantly surprised by this Presidency.

Fen said...

Purple: Assuming, of course, you can break away from that subreddit you were bragging about pissing all over

LOL that was a joke. There is no "Melissa's Wedding" subreddit. I made it up for the joke.

You should check the other thread, I gave you an intelligence test, timed, and the clock is running as we speak.

Wince said...

There is a distinction between the “go back... come back” challenge embodied in Trump’s original Tweets, and the “send her back” chant.

Given that the MSM deliberately obfuscated Trump’s original nuance in their coverage, however, it’s not surprising that those prone to chanting largely didn’t pick up on Trump’s subtlety when they echoed the narrative the media fabricated.

Fen said...

Here. I'll repost it for you in case you are confused:

Purple: Can someone else please explain how depressing voter turnout is not anything at all like discouraging people from voting?

They are pretty much the same thing.

Try comparing what was actually said to what you pretended I said.

I'm curious if you are capable of distinguishing between the two.

Think of it as an intelligence test. Because it is. Lets time it too.

Ready? (click) Go!

J. Farmer said...

@Temujin:

I not playing. Screw them. Screw them. Socialists and anti-semites. I will push back at every chance I have to do so. This game ends now.

I take your point. Turning the other cheek is often an invitation to simply get slapped harder the next time. But partisan squabbling is the "bread and circuses" of the modern American republic. Mental and emotional energy are finite, and the more we devote to stupid issues like this the less we have to devote to other issues. So, for example, the Establishment really wants the per-country cap on H1B visas removed, and large swathes of the US Congress support it. That is a huge give away to big tech and foreign nationals at the expense of American workers. It's way more consequential than any dumb shit Omar said or what some yokels at a Trump rally chanted.

Beasts of England said...

'Wallace was pretty sure the whole "send her back" thingy was a serious, maybe near fatal blow to the Trump campaign.'

I remember about twenty of those claims during the 2016 campaign. Yet he persisted. :)

mockturtle said...

Farmer asserts: As I said originally, Trump was opposed to immigration...

No, he was opposed to illegal immigration.

mockturtle said...

The MSM still don't understand that our support for Trump is based on certain values and principles and has little to do with speeches or tweets.

J. Farmer said...

@Bay Area Guy:

We just like that he fights back against: (a) political correctness, (b) the open borders crowd, and (c) the globalist crowd.

That's missing the forest for the trees. While Trump obsessed over winning the 24-hour news cycle, he's losing the war. His tweets might make you feel good, but by any objective measure, so far he has been an even worse president in terms of illegal immigration than Obama. And yes, I'm quite aware that the whole deporter-in-chief business was bullshit rising from a change in definition.

J. Farmer said...

@mockturtle:

No, he was opposed to illegal immigration.

True. Trump still does say incredibly stupid things like we need more foreign workers.

The MSM still don't understand that our support for Trump is based on certain values and principles and has little to do with speeches or tweets.

I agree with that, as well. But agreeing with the values and principles is meaningless if you can't translate that into action and concrete successes.

Hari said...

I think Trump knows he made a mistake.

Trump's position is that he welcomes legal immigrants, and Omar is a legal immigrant. She was a minor when she came here, so whatever her parents may have done wrong, is not her fault. Her citizenship is and should remain secure. (Of course she should be held accountable for any illegal actions she may have done as an adult, but what is alleged should not be punishable by affecting her citizen status.)

Trump should make this clear in a subsequent rally, and he should turn it to his advantage. He should say that once someone goes through the process and legally becomes a citizen, they are an American. This is why, he should argue, we should be very careful about who we allow to become citizens. We don't need to give amnesty to people who have come here illegally, and we don't need to invite people to immigrate legally who are not going to assimilate and love the country. We can send back people who are here illegally, but we can never send back legal immigrants who become citizens.


Mr. Majestyk said...

I might begin to care about this when the MSM demands that Democrats disavow things chanted at Democrat rallies.

Sprezzatura said...

Farm,

So are the changes re immigration re DJT administration a good thing that the DJT admin is doing v BHO or lib, as you see it?

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/cummings-shreds-dhs-chief-mcaleenan-child-migrant-centers

P.S. is it odd that many folks jabbered about ICEbae rather than the cage that was crammed w/ people that was also in the image of her? That seemed like the most notable thing in that still image.

Of course, the video of her w/ her tits showing ranks as more important than the caged humans (I'm sure that even a gay dude would agree). But any decent person should realize that the suffering people were more notable than ICEbae in her cop outfit.

Duh.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“There is plenty of things Trump has already actually done that one can criticize him for - there is no need to judge him over things you beleive he might do in the future.”

Oh I certainly don’t limit myself to only what his potential for catastrophe is, when criticizing trump. He is the most vile, hateful, corrupt president in history, not even mentioning that he may very well be a serial sexual predator of adult and underage girls.

purplepenquin said...

They are pretty much the same thing

Yet earlier you said they are not anything alike. Why did you change your mind?

Try comparing what was actually said to what you pretended I said.

I just did compare the two statements..in the post you just quoted...and you flat-out stated they are pretty much the same thing. It's right there, for everyone to see - why are you pretending otherwise?

Let me guess - you're gonna chime in with the "It was just a joke!" excuse again, aren't you? Is that why you are passionately supporting Trump - 'cause this is all just one big joke to you?

victoria said...

What a liar he is. He knows exactly what he was doing, and what he was inciting.


Vicki from Pasadena

J. Farmer said...

@anti-de Sitter space:

So are the changes re immigration re DJT administration a good thing that the DJT admin is doing v BHO or lib, as you see it?

Undoubtedly a good thing. But at this point, they mostly amount to rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. I am much to Trump's right on the immigration issue. I would've closed the border with Mexico long ago.

Shouting Thomas said...

It's pure dumb luck he hasn’t caused anything catastrophic yet.

You mean like firebombing an ICE detention center?

As always, lefty liars like Inga decry the "potential" for violence from Republicans and ignore the actual violence incited by Democrats... like Omar.

Or perhaps we should mention the attempt by a Bernie supporter to assassinate the Republican congressional delegation.

Or the incitement to assassinate President Trump implied by calling him a Nazi.

Guildofcannonballs said...

It the one out of a hundred don't matter, then there is no truth.

There just isn't.

Truth is truth is truth and lawyers make billions a day in America making sure everyone knows.
l
Those ads aren't meant for customers, but for insurance agents.

Think about what Frank Azar offers.

Insurance settlements.

Why so many ads? That is Soros mind control. Zero doubt.

Leland said...

When the first lady yelled out "send her back", hardly a second goes by when he continues. She tries again and gets others to follow. This time he pauses about 5 seconds. I guess that needs to be analyzed. Since then, he disavowed the chant. Omar still hasn't disavowed Al Qaeda. I've heard nobody on the left disavow Pressley's racist comments that she didn't want Browns or Blacks if they didn't speak in the voices she expects of them. Did Congress condemn or censor Rep. Pressley and nobody covered it?

J. Farmer said...

I quoted John Derbyshire's comments, which were parallel to my own, in an earlier thread. Allow me to post further and say that Derb and I are on the same page...

(these were in response to Trump's tweet about "removing the millions of illegal aliens")

"And yes, while it's all too true that the President proposes but judges dispose, the President is not altogether without powers. There are immediate actions he can take and there are gauntlets he can throw down to the activist judiciary. We, and other patriotic immigration outlets, have spelled out those actions, described those gauntlets, without any success at getting Trump's attention.

And then there's the bully pulpit. The biggest black mark againt Trump was his failure to get any change to immigration, legal or illegal, in those first two years when Republicans controlled both houses of congress.

To be sure, the Republicans in control there were of the bought-and-sold variety — bought and sold, that is, by the cheap-labor lobbies. Still, Trump had that bully pulpit. He could have made immigration a key issue; he could have named and shamed; he could have publicized the abuses and absurdities. He did nothing.

Now, two and a half years into Trump's first term, legal immigration is as wildly out of control as ever. If you include the swelling throngs of bogus asylum seekers in the "legal" category, which I suppose you should, it's actually far worse than before.

Meanwhile the ten, twenty, or thirty million actual illegal aliens among us are happily settled in. Last week my own state, New York, awarded them state driver's licences, with registration to vote as an automatic side benefit. Their kids are in our schools, their sick are in our hospitals, their delinquents are in our jails.

Ah, but only until next week! Then ICE will swoop; the illegals will be rounded up and deported in batches. The President promised!"

Shouting Thomas said...

... not even mentioning that he may very well be a serial sexual predator of adult and underage girls.

You really outdid yourself with pure asshole hatred there.

You're a vile, despicable piece of shit, Inga.

purplepenquin said...

You should check the other thread, I gave you an intelligence test, timed, and the clock is running as we speak

The thread where you first stated that you hope the RNC will work to depress voter turnout? If that is an intelligence test then you have failed, 'cause you haven't posted there since you first made public your vile desire to have certain people stay home on election day.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=2175374056035907156

Guildofcannonballs said...

"As long as there is, no funny stuff."

"No funny stuff."

"No funny stuff."

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Ilhan Omar Happened Because Media Chose to Lie to You

Three years ago, most American newsrooms picked Ilhan Omar -- despite her crawling Jew-hatred and evidence of an extensive criminal past -- to be the transcendent face America needed to fight bigotry and federal corruption. Reporters apparently chose to lie about Omar to help birth a more trusting country.

Perfectly irrational idiocy. Legacy newsmedia, decayed, perhaps brought itself final ruin by getting exactly what it wanted.

The first Somali-born woman and the first female Muslim to be elected to a U.S. statehouse, Ilhan Omar defeated 44-year incumbent Phyllis Kahn in the Democrat-Farmer-Labor primary for Minnesota House District 60B in 2016. A former child refugee from civil war, Omar was perceived as a best-case image for shepherding progressive causes against President Trump. Ilhan Omar’s individual character, however, was openly trending towards worst-case.

She had written anti-Semitic statements indistinguishable from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. She had disturbing associations with Islamic terror-tied groups. Sources within the Minneapolis Somali community presented evidence, including a video, of the “East Africa Team” members of Ilhan Omar’s campaign openly threatening local Somalis who may have released negative information about her.

Shouting Thomas said...

Inga may be a serial sexual abuser of little boys.

Shouting Thomas said...

Inga may be an embezzler who stole from multiple employers.

Fen said...

His opponents here don't get it either. Although I admit it's amusing to watch them clutch their pearls and dive for the fainting couches. So dramatic, their outrage. Although I do wonder if they are acting for our benefit or their own. More material to craft the alternate reality they exist in.

It's like watching a bunch of hookers swoon because someone used the c-word.

And they are so desperate, grasping at straws, trying to turn a gaffe into some "gotcha" moment that will finally dissolve support for Trump.

They call us Deplorables, deplatform and drive us out of public restaurants, dox us for making funny memes, crack our skulls open with bicycle locks, falsely accuse of racism, of a treasonous conspiracy with Russia. And now they expect me to pretend they believe "send her back" is on par with the Holocaust?

I'm going to need a lot more popcorn.

Shouting Thomas said...

Inga may be an arsonist who's set multiple fires in her area.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Look libs (i.e. libertarian I haven't for a decade or two thought of abusing the decent word "liberal" by applying it to progressive totalitarians) ought be embarressed to admit to liking Joe Sobran.

You know why Buckley kicked his ass out?

Joe said Buckley was anti-Muslim. A bigot because Buckley was Catholic.

That is literrally tht basis.

But lil' Ann (not Althouse) can make millions selling books saying otherwise.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Shouting Thomas IS a goat fucker.🐐 Leave those poor goats alone you perv.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Inga is correct I've hit the Great Bu Bu. Should be no surprise and nothing to comment about.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

"hen came the harder evidence of corruption: Publicly available state records, viewed along with her own confirmed, time-stamped social media posts, suggested a breathtaking spree of state and federal felonies.

The social media posts, visible to anyone who cared to investigate, were rapidly being deleted from Omar’s confirmed accounts."
..

On June 6, 2019, the Minnesota Campaign Finance and Public Disclosure Board released the results of a several-months investigation of Omar. (The investigation had been opened primarily through the efforts of Minn. State Rep. Steve Drazkowski (R-21B). Few other elected officials dared even to speak on record about Ilhan’s apparent finance violations.) The Board’s findings included a presumably career-ending admission for Omar: For at least two years, 2014 and 2015, she jointly filed her income taxes with a man who was not her husband.

There is no box to check for “unmarried filing jointly.” Joint filers are either legally married or potential tax felons. Further, Ilhan Omar was legally married to another man at that time -- and was in fact married to that second man from 2009-2017."

Bay Area Guy said...

BAG: "We just like that he fights back against: (a) political correctness, (b) the open borders crowd, and (c) the globalist crowd.

Farmer: "That's missing the forest for the trees. While Trump obsessed over winning the 24-hour news cycle, he's losing the war. His tweets might make you feel good, but by any objective measure, so far he has been an even worse president in terms of illegal immigration than Obama. And yes, I'm quite aware that the whole deporter-in-chief business was bullshit rising from a change in definition."

Overthinking again, and wrong. A casual blog comment (mine) isn't intended to be a in-depth political dissertation. Lighten up.

On substance, (the immigration issue) your comparing Trump to Obama is misplaced. Compare Trump's policies/statements to the current Democrat Party's policies/statements, and tell us which side is closer to where you are.

My position is fairly simple: I want stricter border enforcement and much less illegal immigration. If a wall deters the hordes, I'm good with it. I want NO sanctuary cities. I want to deport a big chunk of the illegals already here, particularly the criminals. I want less Obama judges to thwart these efforts with bogus court injunctions. I want a narrow definition of asylum, to thwart bogus claims. But I'm also good with legal immigration - wait in line, play by the rules, I say.

Has Trump done all this? Of course, not. But he's much closer to my position than the Dems, who want open borders and/or diluted/degraded American citizenship.

Fen said...

Purple: Yet earlier you said they are not anything alike.

No, once again:

Try comparing what I actually said to what you are pretending I said.

You'll have an easier time if you quote both and place one under the other.

I'm beginning to think you cannot distinguish reality from your delusions.

Shouting Thomas said...

Do you still let your German shepherd lick your cunt, Inga?

Shouting Thomas said...

Or does your cunt stink so bad the damned dog won't even slurp it any more?

Guildofcannonballs said...

The hill Joe Sobran died on was "Buckley hates muslims and is a bigot because of if indisputeably!D!

Fen said...

You should check the other thread, I gave you an intelligence test, timed, and the clock is running as we speak

Purple: The thread where you first stated that you hope the RNC will work to depress voter turnout?

No, it's in this thread at 6:43

tic tic tic

n.n said...

There is no diversity. That is a blood libel and unsupported by the available evidence. The problem is that the so-called "justice democrats" are proponents of immigration reform and its attendant casualties and collateral damage at both ends of the bridge and throughout. Most recently they endangered the lives of Americans and illegal aliens by not only refusing funding, but Antifa-ing civil servants and private businesses that serve to safeguard Americans, legal visitors, and illegal aliens alike.

Civil Unions could have addressed all the needs of gay couples.

Couples, couplets in the transgender spectrum, and everyone else who does not meet political congruence ("="). Except, perhaps, pedophiles and other extremely socially liberal or trans-social orientations, which are still denied tolerance, let alone normalization, by bitter clingers, moderately liberal, and classical progressives alike. As it is, we have a persistent bigotry that is endorsed under a rainbow banner, which demands exclusive endorsement and pride.

Beasts of England said...

'He could have made immigration a key issue; he could have named and shamed; he could have publicized the abuses and absurdities.'

Names and shamed the representatives in his own party who could have flipped and impeached him?

Hagar said...

The U.S. sent Lucky Luciano back to Italy on the grounds that he immigrated under false pretenses though he was only two years old at the time. There is a picture of him in his mother's arms at Ellis Island. Cute kid.

Another point is that a person here on a permanent visa is very much on probation. Any violations of the conditions for granting the visa are grounds for "sending them back" until the time they go through the naturalization process and are granted citizenship.

purplepenquin said...

Fen Said "The RNC needs to find ways to exploit that disappointment and depress Dem voter turnout in 2020"

That is exactly what you said, word-for-word. You are flat-out expressing a desire that plans be made by the RNC in order to persuade people to not vote in 2020. Why are you trying to pretend otherwise?

Browndog said...

I like where this is going....

Carry on.

Sprezzatura said...

I doubt NY is registering non-citzens for voting. Presumably that's illegal. So it could be stopped.

In fact, an NY driver's license that doesn't have proof of citizenship won't even get a person on a plane after 2020.

Anywho Fen,

Why pretend you care about the suffering of Libyans? That is a US bank shot issue. But you say it's good for the DJT government to purposefully and directly inflict suffering on men, women and children? Cause that stimulates yur tribal feelings.

Did yur plan to get a kid change? I'd have thought that having one would increase empathy/sympathy. Or, can you both love yours and also be a proponent re your government having a policy of hurting people and kids that come from the shit holes where they (according to you) belong.

DJT 2020, indeed.

Achilles said...

Ilhan Omar is a piece of shit and so is anyone that supports her.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

As you sow, so shall you reap...

“The GOP has made use of race-driven and hate-propelled demagoguery since the early 1960s. But it has mostly done so in a manner that preserved deniability and would be acceptable at the country club. To a certain degree, Gingrich changed that. But Trump, the owner of several country clubs, has decided that in his world no niceties at all are needed. He has essentially said to the party, “Thanks for the lift, fellows, I’ll take it from here.” And he sees no reason to pretend. His campaign is about race and hate. He is not an aberration. He is the logical outcome of decades of Republican politics. He has exposed the party’s dark soul. And now he is its soul.”

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/07/donald-trumps-politics-of-hate-began-with-a-cynical-and-evil-gop-memo/

Michael said...

Now it’s Mother Jones, ! LOL

Guildofcannonballs said...

Is Sobran Italian?

I got a lot of respecct for Vince, Mom' preia Lombardi.

THose Italian American's sure showed the rests.

Perhaps the hagiography and all the attentdant ackward otherly awardedly attention, asking to not call it beggin, this time more inigue that the last?

gspencer said...

Better to have Omar around since she's giving Americans up front and personal lessons on Islamic supremacism, Islamic practices, and Islamic hatred for the non-Muslim especially the Jewish. All of that is based on express instructions in their Qur'an.

She's much more useful when Trump brings focus on her, and by inference Islam.

Guildofcannonballs said...

If it were the baby that ate the wolf, Trump, then...


Oh but

pious agnostic said...

Some people have been hitting the bottle before commenting, I see.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Now it’s Mother Jones, ! LOL”

Indeed! Several people here today were actually expecting other commenters to believe the nonsense that Powerline was publishing and were actually linking to it, hahahahaha! Or was it Hateway Pundit?

narciso said...

Was that Kevin drum, who wanted to wage another civil war



https://romesentinel.com/stories/thoughts-on-aps-misrepresentation,79446?

Hagar said...

The "Squad of Four" are all women and Democrat members of the U.S. House of Representatives and each seems to be seeking to do the maximum damage she can to their own party. Other than that it is difficult to see what they have in common.

Michael K said...

I think the 1965 immigration reform was infinitely more important.

Oh, I agree but the culture haas been destroyed following Obergefell. Some say Lawrence vs Texas but that was not it.

What we see is the victim culture and the gay marriage thing set it off.

I think the country will split up but not until after I am gone. Mike Lotus's book, "America 3.0" has some ideas for a peaceful split. More likely is Kurt Schlicter's version.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Sure sure, eating the wolf's butt is unappealing, but unappealingness in itself could be a conclusion.

Others might recognize all else the wolf that done been ate.

And by a mere babe in this American land of trees, what the great Tolkien might have phrased much, much better than I will ever be able to be. My everloving gratitude J.R.R.Tolkien and C.S. Lewis and all that profoundly lead our way, today.

narciso said...

Syria. Gaddafi for reasons passing understanding decided to dismantle his nuclear program and ally with the west, as reward a Qatar sponsored uprising at Ali Salem prison was allowed to be represented as a popular revolution, and al Qaeda operatives were enlisted to train and recruit the rebels

Achilles said...

J. Farmer said...
@Fen:

You actually think Trump's rise through the primaries, dispatching Bush and Cruz, and then Hillary - the most stunning political upset in American history - was dumb luck?

Yes. I "actually think" everything I say I think.

Farmer doesn't understand what Trump is doing. He doesn't understand what function the rallies serve.

But Farmer is super smart.

Anything Farmer does not understand is "dumb luck."

At some point Farmer you will learn the difference between Smart and Smug.

Browndog said...

WOW-

Even Daily Mail U.K. ran a full expose' on Omar's marriage fraud today.

You have to search for an obscure blog to find this information in the land of the Freedom of the Press.

Achilles said...

"In his selective memory, [the writer] forgets to also mention the thousands of Somalis killed by the American forces that day! #NotTodaySatan," Omar wrote while still a Minnesota state legislator.

Veterans all know what democrats think about them.

That is why we overwhelmingly hate you.

Ilhan Omar is now the face of the democrat party and everyone sees that you all just hate this country, the people that protect it, and the people in it who disagree with you.

Fuck you.

War.

Unknown said...

Illin' Elmi said she did not regret her statements showing her religions jew hate.

Pelosi said we just don't understand how she uses words.

Instead of playing it that way, "Chance are not nuanced and my followers are good Americans" Trump threw his people under the bus.

Omar's crowd will not return the favor.

Is there any doubt The Squabs and their antifa mob (ICE facility attempted shooter quoted AOC) would deport anyone with wrongthink? They tried to deport Seb Gorka, even at the Congress level, and the CNN guy said "go home" at the white house conference.

Trump is the Pirate King and should stick to it

Leave asking for the "reach rounds" to Romney and McStain.

Browndog said...

Headline:

'I am legally married to one and culturally to another': How Ilhan Omar desperately tried to shut down accusations of bigamy amid claims she was briefly married to her BROTHER to 'commit immigration fraud' while she was still with her current husband

Could any major American publication run that without being thoroughly attacked by the rest of the media?

Still think you live in a free country?

Automatic_Wing said...

The "Squad of Four" are all women and Democrat members of the U.S. House of Representatives and each seems to be seeking to do the maximum damage she can to their own party. Other than that it is difficult to see what they have in common.

Hating whites is pretty much all they have in common. But maybe it's enough? We'll see.

Bruce Hayden said...

"I think he came to those issues mostly instinctively and did not have some master strategy beforehand to use them to win."

Trump ran because he wanted to make some changes - for example in immigration and international trade. And he had identified some issues that resonated with a lot of Americans. But I do think that a lot of the rest is instinctual, and not playing three dimensional chess. What I see is someone who is good with people and good with crowds, with thirty years of practicing his skills. Part of it though is that he is very bright, trusts his instincts, and reacts much more quickly than we are used to with our politicians, who tend to be fairly cautious by nature. When he misfires, he detects it very quickly and changes his approach. And, if you look for it, he seems to misfire a fair bit, but has usually recovered before his opponents have identified his misfire as a weakness.

And because of that, I think that I would love to meet him in real life and have a discussion.

rhhardin said...

That's Trump misreading the crowd. The crowd is disclaiming political correctness ruling everything. If she feels that way about America she belongs back in Somalia.

The rules of America leave the promise open of political openness within the system, no matter how far they fall short in implementation. If she doesn't think that promise is good enough, she can't be an American.

Somalia has no such promise. PC says America has no such promise. The foundation must be discredited and removed. I don't think so, says the crowd.

Take it as a chant about who can be an American. You can be as liberal as you want but you can't redo the promise.

rhhardin said...

So big mistake for Trump to undermine the crowd's entirely correct statement. Trump ought to be explaining it, not discrediting it.

rhhardin said...

The lady has to give some sign that she understands the American system.

chuck said...

> Even Daily Mail U.K. ran a full expose' on Omar's marriage fraud today.

The Daily Mail is by far the best US newspaper.

roesch/voltaire said...

The video shows 12 counts (BBC timing) while the chants when on before Trump continued his BS. Really who do you believe your eyes or our lying President?

Michael K said...

I think that I would love to meet him in real life and have a discussion.

I would recommend Conrad Black's book. He know him well and is of a similar financial sophistication. He is also cynical about some of Trump's early history.

Michael K said...

Really who do you believe your eyes or our lying President?

Does anyone not a loopy lefty care ?

traditionalguy said...

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Omar is a dedicated Jihadist warrior. But she has the cover of a respected politician fairly elected from the 100% Muslim immigrants resettled by Obama in the city of Henry "The Nazi" Ford.

Trump is not fooled at all. But he has to go slow here because the independent women voters he needs still have sympathy for her courageous Joan of Arc warrior style.

Best we let it ride. And thank God that this stealth Jihadist is not destroying us from inside from the Oval Office like Hussein Soetoro did for 8 years.

Unknown said...

Why didn't they chant something more correct and nuanced

"Figuratively, send her back, if she wants to go, as she prefers the Old Country she fled to escape death by the hand of her countrymen to the New Country which is less than her utopia because others want to support Israel and think people are free to be more than their skin color."

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

The Althouse Village Idiot:

"Indeed! Several people here today were actually expecting other commenters to believe the nonsense that Powerline was publishing and were actually linking to it, hahahahaha"

You do know Powerline helped expose Dan Rather's fraud back in 2004? Of course Mrs. Pee Pee Dossier probably still thinks Rather is a credible journalist.

Inga loves lies like flies love shit.

traditionalguy said...

Oops.She is not the Dearborn Jihadist Talib. She is Minnesota's Sudanese Terrorist.

Guildofcannonballs said...

THe hateful GOP:

in CO

i s hatefully trying to goad good folks into a recall of an elected Governor that I respect.

THese dirty GOP got BUSH over McCain so somehow they matter today. Seriously. I wish they didn't. THey do.

Mitt.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'll revert to Dwight Yoakam again and again and again if that's what it takesnver I'll write Althouse's books, 83-17 De

Unknown said...

Perhaps Trump should send a commission to Somalia to find out what they are doing right down there.

narciso said...

The destruction of conrad blacks flagship enterprise, has to count as a great offense.

Big Mike said...

Perhaps Trump is listening to what Lindsey Graham had to say: “No, I don’t think it’s racist to say, was it racist to say love it or leave it? I don’t think a Somali refugee embracing Trump would have been asked to go back. If you’re a racist you want everyone from Somalia to go back because they’re black or their Muslim. That’s not what this is about to me... What this is about to me, is these four congressmen in their own way have been incredibly provocative.”

True in every particular.

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