July 21, 2019

"Delivering restaurant food has always been a hard, thankless job. With the apps..."

"... it is becoming more flexible and better paying — but in some ways less stable. This, said Niels van Doorn, an assistant professor of new media and digital culture at the University of Amsterdam who spent six months in New York studying app riders last year, 'is what happens with an already precarious work force — what happens to an already invisibilized work force — when these platforms come to town.'... My last day as a food courier began with an order on the East Side that included the notation 'Happy Birthday' next to the recipient’s name. I sang 'Happy Birthday' as I proffered her egg sandwich. 'Oh, thank you!' she said, laughing. (Tip: zero.) It ended 41 miles later in Brooklyn after a failed attempt at a four-delivery sprint that included an order getting taken away from me and assigned to another courier because I was late... In between came a lunch delivery to a Class A office building in Midtown. I was sent to a service entrance where a fellow deliveryman led me down a Dumpster-lined corridor to a crammed holding pen where couriers huddled in near-silence, food packs on their backs. I had stumbled through a dystopian portal. I thought of what a colleague had said the day before: 'You’re one step above an Amazon drone.' I thought of something Professor van Doorn had said, that the couriers’ real value to the app companies is in the data harvested like pollen as we make our rounds, data that will allow them to eventually replace us with machines."

From "My Frantic Life as a Cab-Dodging, Tip-Chasing Food App Deliveryman" by Andy Newman, a NYT reporter, whose "life as a... delivery man" consisted of a few days' work (using a borrowed electric bike). It amazes me that people order food delivered and then don't tip, but I'm not using these apps, and maybe people — especially young people — read the company's pitch as implying that the tip is built into the delivery price. Ah, yes, I'm looking at Uber Eats, and it lists for each restaurant a "delivery fee," which is $3 to $6 or so.

132 comments:

Yancey Ward said...

You are right- the apps do imply the tip is included in the price paid on-line. In fact, I think it is more than implied, but maybe the writer knows something we don't.

This reminds of the story a few months back about the guy who did a brief stint as package delivery guy for either Amazon or FedEx in the SF area and wrote a story about it.

bleh said...

Well, part of that cost of the meal when you dine out pays for the seat. You are in a sense renting the space. If I order food delivered and pay the same price as if I were at the restaurant, the part that would pay for the space should go to the delivery man. I still tip, by the way.

Yancey Ward said...

We would have to know why the delivery fee varies to fully understand it.

tim maguire said...

If there is a delivery fee, I would assume that that is the tip.

rehajm said...

Bad news: You’re one step above an Amazon drone.

Good news: You’re one step above an Amazon drone.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

I'm sick of these delivery, Uber, Amazon gig employees complaining about low pay. You knew the pay when you signed up. You also knew the "job" was completely flexible. If you don't want to work that day you don't have to call someone and explain why you aren't working. If you want to take 3 months off for whatever reason you can do that. No one will fire you. No one will complain about having to cover your work.

If you want steady work, good pay and benefits, get a real job.

robother said...

The NYT reporter is used to getting tips for every story?

Lewis Wetzel said...

I won't read the article (I don't trust the NY Times to tell me what I want to know, vs. what it wants me to know).
But I do know that the delivery people choose to do what they are doing. This is what an efficient economy looks like, this is what freedom looks like, this is what capitalism looks like.
How can you reject the gig economy and embrace free trade and open immigration? All take you to the same place -- people doing crappy work for low pay so that better skilled, better connected, and just plain luckier people can hire you to do what they feel is not worth their time to do. It is simply more efficient, isn't it, for a $50/hr software guy to pay an illegal $15/hour to do his yard work instead of doing it himself?

Seeing Red said...

"... it is becoming more flexible and better paying — but in some ways less stable. This, said Niels van Doorn, an assistant professor of new media and digital culture at the University of Amsterdam


I was thinking about this this morning.

This is going to get really interesting with all this delivery. Think about it. When that per mile tax gets passed per state or on the federal level. How much is food going to really go up?

And they younger generations will whine even more they can’t buy a roof over their heads.

Rob said...

It’s refreshing to see a NYT reporter actually working for a few days. As for the dystopian portal and holding pen he encountered at a nice office building, I wonder, does the NYT allow messengers to roam freely through its offices? Didn’t think so. And apartment dwellers opened their doors only long enough to take their food? What was he expecting, an invitation in and a lovely chat? The one surprise in the story is that he didn’t include the obligatory slam on Trump. The editor must have been dozing.

Seeing Red said...

I'm sick of these delivery, Uber, Amazon gig employees complaining about low pay. You knew the pay when you signed up. You also knew the "job" was completely flexible.

There’s a show called “Newsy” on cable aimed at the younger generations. We watched to see what’s going on in their heads.

A segment was the gig economy and profiled a guy in NYC.

I’m not meant to sit behind a desk!

So I walk dogs (probably for $) charges electric scooters, etc. but whined and the point of the segment was they’re not getting benefits.

Did I mention I don’t want to sit behind a desk?

So you are your own business person, but expect all the bennies including only working when you want?

BS!

Rory said...

People always think the technology encroaching on their jobs has to be perfect, but it just has to be better than them.

Seeing Red said...

We encountered that mentality 20 years ago skiing out West.

Paying higher prices for food and the kid put the tip jar up asking for tips so he could continue his chosen lifestyle.

And what did we schmucks do? Go to work every day and save and sacrifice for that vacation.

Obviously, we didn’t tip.

chuck said...

invisibilized? That's awesome.

RK said...

read the company's pitch as implying that the tip is built into the delivery price

It's possible that the whining about people not tipping is solely to add drama to the story. "Journalists" do that regularly.

chuck said...

When I delivered for a few days in NYC, the brewery gave me beer and the ladies at the garment factory... um, appreciated my shorts.

Seeing Red said...

Of course Europe doesn’t tip like Americans.

bagoh20 said...

As a young person, I had a number of jobs delivering different things. Pay was always less than $5/hr, and tipping was unheard of. I still kicked ass, because that's what you do in any job, or you get the hell out. Don't rip off your boss, don't diminish yourself by a poor effort, and don't support operations that don't pay you decent. Move on. It's best for everyone, and more effective than carrying a sign for free.

bagoh20 said...

If you pay too much another company ends up with your customers and your profit. If you pay too little another company ends up with your drivers and your profit. As it should be, and as it is with most things. In a free market you end up with three tiers of companies for those who want either quality, low cost, or value. Choice is good.

Rob said...

Illegal immigrants take illegal jobs (because no work permit), ride illegal e-bikes, probably illegally, and drive down the wages of others who might compete in that labor market. And what a surprise, they try to game the system by doubling up on delivery companies, thereby giving poorer service. It's almost as if somebody who breaks the line to get into the country doesn't care much about obeying laws and following rules.

cacimbo said...

I just ordered from Grubhub. There is a $2.99 delivery fee, then they add on a 15% tip. You do have the option to change the tip amount.

I have been disgusted at how inconsiderate some office workers are of food delivery people. I have seen them only begin to collect the cash from multiple people when the delivery arrives. The delivery person is left waiting 10-20 minutes. My guess would be there is not a larger tip to account for the wasted time.

The Minnow Wrangler said...

You didn't even mention that he was delivering an "egg sandwich". I totally share your disgust for that particular food item.

Amadeus 48 said...

I use restaurant home delivery fairly often. I am currently favoring DoorDash. I usually add a 20% tip, and when the delivery shows up, I give him or her an additional $10 in cash.

The delivery folks have to make a living, and they are adding greatly to my convenience--and a bunch of jerks are stiffing them.

mockturtle said...

When my grandson was delivering pizzas he made more in tips than in wages. And this is also true of my granddaughter's waitress job.

mockturtle said...

And let's be realistic: It is implicit in these jobs that you will get tips! Tip these folks, please! They depend on it.

NoBorg said...

The problem with the food delivery service is the same as with Uber and Lyft drivers: People are not realistically taking into account the actual mileage costs on their vehicle, usually they only consider the fuel cost. The IRS's 55 cent per mile personal vehicle deduction is actually pretty well researched. It's true that an older high-mileage vehicle probably has a little bit lower cost due to reduced depreciation, but you are still wearing out brakes / tires / etc. by using the car this way. These people are practically working for free but they don't realize it.

Hari said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Seeing Red said...

Invisible, undocumented citizens are best for these jobs in sanctuary cities. Are they complaining?

Are they getting cash?

rcocean said...

Bezos is worth $80 billion. He can afford to pay his people more money. Especially since he's a left-winger who runs the WaPo. Does Amazon have a minimum $15/hour wage? Does it have free health care? Why not?

I always love when Average Joe's worship these greedy shit-head Billionaires -who wouldn't give them the time of day. Jesus Christ Libertarian dude, just call Zuckerberg up and offer him a blow job.

Hari said...

Are there any NYT articles that do not include quotes from either an academic or an anonymous source?

Howard said...

Blogger rcocean said... I always love when Average Joe's worship these greedy shit-head Billionaires -who wouldn't give them the time of day.

You Trumpsters are precious. Teh Donald loves us. He really, really loves us.

rcocean said...

Bezos and all the other Globalists want to replace Americans with Cheap illegals and ultimately with drones or robots. Of course, the robots are going to be delayed when you got cheap illegals coming in and willing to work for $10 hr. - with all their medical care and education being picked up by the tax payer.

Howard said...

Fucking Millennial asbergerwhipes don't believe in tipping.

Hari said...

If there were no illegal immigrants working in NYC, what would that do to wages for jobs like this?

rcocean said...

Trump is a traitor to his class. He wants to enforce the immigration laws. He wants Pro-American trade deals. And he's run for the POTUS and taken a lot of shit from everyone, when at 72 he could be out golfing and grabbing willing women by their pussies. His business has lost millions due to boycotts and lawsuits.

Rabel said...

Electric bikes like the borrowed one the writer used are illegal in NYC.

rcocean said...

"Are there any NYT articles that do not include quotes from either an academic or an anonymous source?"

They have a hard time finding people. Basically, you have to be a friend of the reporter or someone their family knows for you to be quoted.

MayBee said...

I've used several of the apps: GrubHub, Caviar, and DoorDash. There is always a space to add a tip when you order.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"Tip these folks, please! They depend on it."

Who the F doesn't tip, but can? And if you can't, maybe you should find a way to survive that doesn't require shorting other folks.

My only problem w/ loon level tipping is making sure that it's as anonymous as possible (but still being sure the Man (incl tax man)) doesn't snatch. I hate a big fuss re something that is not shit. Normal folks don't really understand big math, re what does and doesn't matter.

Anywho, re charity, re assessing character and need, re cutting out the middle folks, it's as safe a bet as any that service type folks are not loaded, and they do work to get by. Sure, ya do the institutional stuff re big issues and actually big dough, but the in-person wee potatoes (from a certain POV) is also good.

IMHO.

rcocean said...

When I was a young guy living in a sketchy neighborhood, I was always amused at the Pizza Delivery guys who were upset when i gave them a 10-15% tip. I mean, they were probably making more than me!

anti-de Sitter space said...

OTOH,

I do wonder if folks just blow it on pot and some dumb, massively depreciating, purchase.

I dunno.

rcocean said...

All the food deliveries ended when i got married. Not because she cooks, but because she's cheap.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"but because she's cheap."

Wise cheap, or silly cheap?

Our time is not free.

Howard said...

Blogger rcocean said...

Trump is a traitor to his class. He wants to enforce the immigration laws. He wants Pro-American trade deals. And he's run for the POTUS and taken a lot of shit from everyone, when at 72 he could be out golfing and grabbing willing women by their pussies. His business has lost millions due to boycotts and lawsuits.


That grape Kool-aid taste good

Howard said...

There's cheap and then there's inexpensive. I'm sure rc doesn't care what is the reason, resistance if futile

anti-de Sitter space said...

It's orange.

And, don't forget carried interest.

anti-de Sitter space said...

BTW,

The coolest thing about DJT's mind is the trade stuff.

He sees that white farmers are screwed as much or more than anyone, so he'll give them dough.

1) The US economy isn't that simple. Because there are too many follow-on effects re everything. E.g., why is the Walker/DJT incredible Foxconn 13,000 jobs turned into vaporware? Response? Or was it always BS? Who knows. And, that's just one example re complexity and unintended effects.

2) Picking economic winners and losers is what communists do.

Big Mike said...

One of my college friends had spent Christmas vacation delivering pizza in the Chicago suburbs. One night he went out to the very limit of their delivery area during a heavy snowfall that made driving hazardous. His tip was fifty cents. Of course, that was over fifty years ago, but still ...

Lincolntf said...

I took my second Uber ride ever yesterday, from an airport to a friend's house. For the first time, I was happy that the company offered a pre-set "tip suggestion" of various percentages. It annoys me at places like "Jersey Mike's", a sandwich chain you may or may not know of, because it was never before a tippable event, sandwich making at a sub shop. But the Uber "suggestion" helped me decipher the etiquette of expected tipping. I gave him the middle amount, I think 20%, because he did a good job, but sped a little too much on the Interstate for my taste.

Lincolntf said...

I just looked it up, Uber takes 25% of each fare. So my forty dollar ride, which took about 50 minutes, netted the driver 30 bucks, my 20% tip got him another 8. He made 38 bucks that hour, unless I'm missing something. Not bad for an Iraqi immigrant who spoke so-so English.

Michael K said...

Picking economic winners and losers is what communists do.

No, just losers.

traditionalguy said...

The waiters tell me that no matter how hard the work for a party , the black customers refuse to tip. They expect to have Slave servants provided that they can be the master.

EDH said...

Stay home and eat out.

Seeing Red said...

The coolest thing about DJT's mind is the trade stuff.

He sees that white farmers are screwed as much or more than anyone, so he'll give them dough.

What nonsense are you talking about?

Have you never followed any campaign?

Do you know how hard it was to get the sugar lobby to back down a few years ago?

Ethanol?

Chicago was the home of more than 90 candy companies at one time. Even Daley, Clinton’s Commerce Sec? Couldn’t break the sugar lobby control.

How many gentleman farmers are in Congress?

It’s not just The Donald.

Seeing Red said...

Ted Turner should not be getting buffalo subsidies.

Seeing Red said...

Fucking Millennial asbergerwhipes don't believe in tipping.

They don’t carry cash. I discussed this with my kids. If you valet how do u tip? Uber? We don’t.

anti-de Sitter space said...

Linc,

Presumably there are costs associated w/ operating a vehicle. And, it makes a big difference if as soon as you were dropped off, there was a person waiting to go back to the airport. Or not. Or some hop-skip jump re getting the driver back to the start.

The tax reimbursement per mile is somewhere around sixty cents. Don't forget the return trip that the driver must take.

And, uber prices are based on demand and such. IOW, your same trip could have cost more or less, on another day. Or a trip of the exact same mileage could have been more or less expensive, even at the exact time, depending on where you ended up.

anti-de Sitter space said...

See R,

DJT said he's giving the farmers billions because of his subsides.

Unbunch yur panties.


Seeing Red said...

It doesn’t matter. It’s not new.

Amadeus 48 said...

"The waiters tell me that no matter how hard the work for a party , the black customers refuse to tip."

If true*, they are getting their reparations on the down-low from wait-staff.

*I am agnostic on this type of story. Could it be an urban legend? I have seen well-off black people give large tips to black wait-staff. I don't have sufficient observations to generalize from that.

Original Mike said...

One of the joys of getting on in years and becoming increasingly confident you have enough money is tipping large.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"It’s not new."

The billions more that DJT says are to compensate for his trade policy are new.

But re the old transfers of wealth to empty places, what do folks expect when we have a gov that gives power based on acreage instead of being based on what is most beneficial for the entire country?

Duh.

Amadeus 48 said...

"My only problem w/ loon level tipping is making sure that it's as anonymous as possible (but still being sure the Man (incl tax man)) doesn't snatch."

Embrace the power of cash.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"No, just losers."

I'm pretty sure that Dennis and Don's friend is choosing to win.

Original Mike said...

"Embrace the power of cash."

It's the only way to tip.

Lincolntf said...

I should have said grossed, not netted. My bad. Fuel, maintenance, tax will take a bite, but they, and similar expenses, take a bite out of most other people who make 38 dollars an hour, too.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

Yeah, those no/low tip people are awful.

Almost as bad as the employers who shirk their legal responsibility and refuse to pay them a fair and decent wage.

Big Mike said...

Teh Donald loves us. He really, really loves us.

Well, Howard, he loves us. You, probably not so much.

Original Mike said...

"Almost as bad as the employers who shirk their legal responsibility and refuse to pay them a fair and decent wage."

Really? They're breaking the law?

Michael K said...

Almost as bad as the employers who shirk their legal responsibility and refuse to pay them a fair and decent wage.

Spoken like a child who has never signed the FRONT of a paycheck.

Robert Cook said...

"I'm sick of these delivery, Uber, Amazon gig employees complaining about low pay. You knew the pay when you signed up. You also knew the "job" was completely flexible. If you don't want to work that day you don't have to call someone and explain why you aren't working. If you want to take 3 months off for whatever reason you can do that. No one will fire you. No one will complain about having to cover your work.

"If you want steady work, good pay and benefits, get a real job."


You don't get it. These are the real jobs of today.

Original Mike said...

"You don't get it. These are the real jobs of today."

Depends on your skills, dunnit?

anti-de Sitter space said...

Doc Mike is jabbering about signing paychecks again.

Is anyone taking bets on what he'll type next?

Either he'll fuss about paying for something (perhaps a meal, re the thread) for his kids, or he'll tell us it's his sleepy time.

I'm goin' w/ jabber re his deadbeat kids comes first. It's still early.

Mark said...

I've signed the front of a paycheck plenty of times. It's called signing the credit card slip for my restaurant bill.

The thing of it is this -- they are not my employees. I'm picking up your slack, and you are whining about me??

Original Mike said...

"I've signed the front of a paycheck plenty of times. It's called signing the credit card slip for my restaurant bill."

You can't seriously be equating that with the risks of owning the business?

Seeing Red said...

You don't get it. These are the real jobs of today.

Gee, maybe if we limited...??? Maybe if we stopped passing more rule and regs and hamstringing???

At least Trump is trying.

Seeing Red said...

No one is forcing him to stay in NYC.

Seeing Red said...

But re the old transfers of wealth to empty places, what do folks expect when we have a gov that gives power based on acreage instead of being based on what is most beneficial for the entire country?


You want to outsource our farming? Even more than what it is? To whom, China so they can poison us like they do their own people?

tcrosse said...

You don't get it. These are the real jobs of today.

...if you neglected to learn a trade.

Robert Cook said...

"When my grandson was delivering pizzas he made more in tips than in wages. And this is also true of my granddaughter's waitress job."

This is the way it has always been. Food servers (and deliverers) work for the tips, not for the wages, because the wages are shit.

I knew a single mother in Florida who worked as a pizza deliverer for Pizza Hut. She had to use her own car, (as the other deliverers had to use their cars) for which she was not compensated one cent for gas, oil, or wear on the car. As far as I'm concerned, this is theft from the workers, who must pay for business-related capital maintenance on their vehicles out of their shit pay and tips.

Robert Cook said...

"Maybe if we stopped passing more rule and regs and hamstringing???"

Most regs have to do with ensuring worker safety, product safety and quality, restricting industries from shitting into the air, land, and water, etc. In short, most regs are for quality and safety control and work to our benefit. Those who gripe about hamstringing just don't want to pay their business costs which we must otherwise bear for the ills their shoddy products and practices inflict on us.

John Lynch said...

I did food delivery for years. The trick is to keep your costs down (drive an old, fuel efficient car) and don't get upset when you get stiffed. Be fast but don't take stupid risks. RC is right about the capital cost of transportation being shifted onto workers who can ill afford it.

Domino's was the best company I worked for. They paid mileage and the delivery area wasn't ridiculously huge. I did quite well there.

Also, if you don't tip, you suck. Really no other way to say it- you are getting a service without paying for it. If you can afford delivery you can afford to tip.

John Lynch said...

Best tippers: Bartenders, waitresses, hairdressers.

Worst tippers: Teachers, teachers and teachers. Doctors and lawyers were fine, in my experience, but teachers... IDK what it is.

Yancey Ward said...

I await the story about the pizza delivery guys from days of yore that could support a wife and send 4 kids through college on their wages and tips, but those careers were destroyed by evil Republicans.

The Godfather said...

Aren't we wasting time talking about a temporary issue? In a couple of years in urban areas, a little longer elsewhere, all these deliveries will be made by drones. There'll be one operator for (say) 20 drones at a time. You'll never see see her/him, only maybe hear her/his voice coming out of the speaker on the drone; maybe (probably) your bill will include a service charge or delivery charge, but there'll be no person to "tip". I don't know what the people who now do these deliveries will do to make a buck then -- except those who know how to fly a drone.

John Lynch said...

Funny that drugs aren't mentioned. Drugs are ubiquitous in restaurant and delivery land. Drugs, more than anything else, are what kept people down.

Seeing Red said...

Most regs have to do with ensuring worker safety, product safety and quality, restricting industries from shitting into the air, land, and water, etc. In short, most regs are for quality and safety control and work to our benefit. Those who gripe about hamstringing just don't want to pay their business costs which we must otherwise bear for the ills their shoddy products and practices inflict on us.

Or create more jobs for the administrative state which causes inertia.

Seeing Red said...

See the EPA water grab.

John Lynch said...

Drones can't do food delivery to offices. What, is a drone going to take an elevator? I can see a driverless car going to a residence, but delivery to workplaces in big cities isn't going to be done by robots anytime soon.

John Lynch said...

- Yancy Ward:

Lived quite well on my tips and hourly, and I was married to a grocery cashier. She carried the health insurance. My tips paid the bills.

Then Obamacare came, my hours got cut, and insurance suddenly cost twice as much.

Thanks, Obama. I wish more people would get mad about how the employer mandate screws workers out of hours.

Matt Harris said...

I use Doordash. Tips are a separate line item on the order.

gilbar said...

Robert Cooke said...
As far as I'm concerned, this is theft from the worker

Serious question
Is there ANYTHING that you don't consider theft from the worker?

Big Mike said...

I wish more people would get mad about how the employer mandate screws workers out of hours.

@John Lynch, you don't think that contributed to Trump's win in 2016? Unfortunately too many Republicans didn't get the message so after November 2018 they wound up having to work for a living.

jimbino said...

Almost every day at my home in Rio de Janeiro, I order a "quentinha" delivered by motorbike for lunch--enough to feed two moderate eaters--consisting of rice, black beans, farofa, beef, chicken or sausage and a small salad, all for R$10 including delivery (a fresh caipirinha costs R$8 extra). R$10 is worth about $2.50.

Joanne Jacobs said...

Food delivery people are not "invisibilized" or even "invisible." They're ubiquitous. If they're invisible to the reporter, he's not paying attention to the world around him.

John henry said...

Rc ocean

Amazon instituted a $15/hr minimum wage for all us Amazon employees in October last year

John Henry

stevew said...

No one delivers food to my house, or any others around here. We're close enough but there aren't enough of us so it's not worth it to them. If they did though, I'd tip them.

Bob Loblaw said...

It's unlikely these kinds of deliver services will be replaced by machines - this kind of work requires too much context for a reasonably priced machine to handle. But I suspect he's right in that companies are mining this data to sell to other companies as a separate income stream.

JaimeRoberto said...

My son drives for Uber Eats. He enjoys it and it's a great job for a college student. Decent money and lots of flexibility. If you plan on making a career out of it, you are doing something wrong.

Michael K said...

Worst tippers: Teachers, teachers and teachers. Doctors and lawyers were fine, in my experience, but teachers... IDK what it is.

And blacks. Larry Elder has had several radio shows on this. It explains most of the poor service they complain of.

John henry said...

Seeing Red

Another reason for the regs is to create artificial barriers to entry.

See the discussion of pharma regulation the other day.

Or more to the point, artificially limiting the number of taxi licenses in NYc to the poi t that 2-3 years ago a medallion (license) cost over a million dollars.

Car, insurance and everything else on top of that.

Lots of other examples.

John Henry

ken in tx said...

"Are there any NYT articles that do not include quotes from either an academic or an anonymous source?"

The Greenville News, in SC, owned by Gannet I think, once had a policy that every locally written story had to have a quote by a minority. Even if the story had nothing to do with a minority issue. This resulted in some writers calling out of state to get comments on local stories from non-local Native Americans or Asian Americans.

John henry said...

Apparently uber has caused a crash In NYC medallion. Prices in the past 2-3 years.

John Henry

Narayanan said...

Hello Americans :

it's time to (re)read Dickens Oliver Twist and book report back on Fagin business model.

mockturtle said...

JaimeRoberto reports: My son drives for Uber Eats. He enjoys it and it's a great job for a college student. Decent money and lots of flexibility. If you plan on making a career out of it, you are doing something wrong.

Exactly. It's not a life career, for heaven's sake. Great work for students since they can work evenings.

Slip said...

Menial labor isn't suppose to be rewarding.

Slip said...

"Then Obamacare came, my hours got cut, and insurance suddenly cost twice as much."

Obama was a terrible president and evil person. What did you expect?

Matt said...

NYC is a miserable shithole. Would be nice if all the fucks that live there would realize nobody outside of NYC gives a shit about their stupid miserable lives in that piss and shit-stained dump.

Nichevo said...


Its a dream job for a scruffy Bernie type Jew.


You seem nice. Ever heard of Nellie Bly?

tcrosse said...

Obama was a terrible president and evil person.

He had help.

Howard said...

Blogger Big Mike said... Well, Howard, he loves us. You, probably not so much. Thank Krishna for that! I'm sure he love you long time

Howard said...

Blogger Robert Cook said...

"Maybe if we stopped passing more rule and regs and hamstringing???"

Most regs have to do with ensuring worker safety, product safety and quality, restricting industries from shitting into the air, land, and water, etc. In short, most regs are for quality and safety control and work to our benefit. Those who gripe about hamstringing just don't want to pay their business costs which we must otherwise bear for the ills their shoddy products and practices inflict on us.


Yeah. Commies are famous for having the most laxative worker safety and environmental control regulations for industry. Apparently, Trump's deregulation is just a natural progression to a more totalitarian state.

How ironic

DavidUW97 said...

Learn to code.

Howard said...

adss totally trolled Doc Mike into making a racialist comment by cornering him into his third most favorite go-to post topic

Blogger anti-de Sitter space said...Doc Mike is jabbering a... again. Is anyone taking bets on what he'll type next? Either he'll fuss about paying for something (perhaps a meal, re the thread) for his kids, or he'll tell us it's his sleepy time.

Blogger Michael K said... Worst tippers: Teachers, teachers and teachers. Doctors and lawyers were fine, in my experience, but teachers... IDK what it is.

And blacks


Way to stay in character, doc

Ben said...

I delivered pizzas in the pre-app era and I didn't find it hard or thankless. Compared to waiting tables, it was fun. Most people tipped adequately and seemed genuinely thankful when the pizza man arrived.

DavidUW97 said...

Teachers are entitled POS’s that think they’re doing the world a favor by existing and have been told for decades they’re poor.

Of course I get into it all the time with these morons.

If you’re such a great teacher why does your work product (California students) suck?

Rory said...

"and have been told for decades they’re poor."

There's a joke about the underpaid teachers cliche in a Dick van Dyke episode, c. 1963.

anti-de Sitter space said...

Options 1 to 3 are gone.

Now, it's either time to: 1) plead for Althouse to take control of the thread by dealing w/ the rabble in the comments, or 2) let us all know what book is better than being here.

Could be both.

Robert Cook said...

"NYC is a miserable shithole. Would be nice if all the fucks that live there would realize nobody outside of NYC gives a shit about their stupid miserable lives in that piss and shit-stained dump."

Touchy, touchy. I don't blame you for being envious.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Robert Cook said..."Most regs have to do with ensuring worker safety, product safety and quality, restricting industries from shitting into the air, land, and water, etc. In short, most regs are for quality and safety control and work to our benefit. Those who gripe about hamstringing just don't want to pay their business costs which we must otherwise bear for the ills their shoddy products and practices inflict on us."

You understand this is simply your assertion, and is, in fact, the major bone of contention between statists and free-marketers? Nobody wants dirty water, for example. The question is whether the current level of regulation is warranted. You get that? Right?

Limited Perspective said...

I delivered packages for UPS as I working my way through college. This was before online shopping. Most packages were mundane, but every once in a while there would be some infomercial con artist like William J. McCorkle who would send a flood of packages to the get rich quick crowd. There was also the distinctive porn toy packages that we all knew about. I always felt a little embarrassed delivering both.

DavidUW97 said...

Also how lazy do you have to be to pay for food delivery in NYC.
Nearly everywhere except maybe Staten Island, you can either get food on the first floor of your building or you can walk no more than 5 minutes to get something to eat.
And for you desk drones, get up and move. If your boss won’t let you, get a different job. It’s 3.7% unemployment.


Lewis Wetzel said...

Well, roberrt Cooke, why don't you move to NY city? Not special enough to live there? Believe it or not, "it's like California with shitty weather" is not a draw to normal people.

Lewis Wetzel said...

I worked my way through school at the loading dock of a downtown department store. It was kind of fun. It didn't take that much brain work or body work. A monkey could have done my job -- if it could be taught to read labels.
It taught me things about life. Like the truism that all window dressers are male & gay (at least this was true at my store in the 1970s). There were two guys I admired. One was a lifer at the loading dock. Calm, relaxed, he did my job plus a bunch of paperwork. also he had to deal with the truck drivers, who were Teamsters and made about ten times as much as we did. The second was an older window dresser, elegant, but without gay mannerisms. He chain smoked and was all business, until late at night, when he would critique the items that corporate had decided he was to display.
Both are dead now, I suppose.

mockturtle said...

I thought Cookie lives in NYC. Yes?

Tina Trent said...

The writer doesn't comb his hair or clean his nails, if the one selfie is his hands.

NYT hippie misses story, grooming.

rehajm said...

I thought Cookie lives in NYC. Yes?

In a rent controlled abode, no doubt.

Robert Cook said...

"You understand this is simply your assertion, and is, in fact, the major bone of contention between statists and free-marketers? Nobody wants dirty water, for example. The question is whether the current level of regulation is warranted. You get that? Right?"

Apparently, the current state of regulation of our drinking water is too lax, or is not enforced, given the number of American cities with unsafe drinking water containing serious toxins such as lead and other harmful agents.

Now, I don't doubt that there may be unnecessary or overly restrictive regulations out there, but focus on the particular ones that may be excessive and harmful to communities, and try to have them modified or rescinded. Nonspecific griping about "too much regulation" betrays ignorance of the purpose of regulations and the reason we have regulatory agencies. If we didn't, we'd all be consuming spoiled or contaminated food and beverage products, (more than we presently are, that is).

The vaunted "free market" means only that businesses are "free" to do as they please, with no oversight or controls of their business practices. Count me as a NON-supporter of that, as big business has proved again and again that, absent sufficient controls and sanctions, (and often even with them), they will cheat, steal, lie, and poison us to maximize their profits. Businesses are amoral, and regulations are an attempt to keep them from stealing from us or killing us.

Paco Wové said...

To tip for food delivery, or not to tip for food delivery? I have inoculated myself against this thorny question by not using their services. Win-win!

Skippy Tisdale said...

"Blogger Rob said...
It’s refreshing to see a NYT reporter actually working for a few days. As for the dystopian portal and holding pen he encountered at a nice office building, I wonder, does the NYT allow messengers to roam freely through its offices? Didn’t think so. And apartment dwellers opened their doors only long enough to take their food? What was he expecting, an invitation in and a lovely chat? The one surprise in the story is that he didn’t include the obligatory slam on Trump. The editor must have been dozing."

"Howard said...
Blogger rcocean said... I always love when Average Joe's worship these greedy shit-head Billionaires -who wouldn't give them the time of day.

You Trumpsters are precious. Teh Donald loves us. He really, really loves us."

Thank you Howard for picking up the NYT slack.

Skippy Tisdale said...

I had to rely on Uber for three months because I could not drive due to a total knee replacement (left knee, I drive a Ford pickup with a clutch). The reason I tip them really well -- 50% and up -- is because the drivers rate you. My Uber customer rating is five stars. With a rating like that, drivers can't wait to pick you up, so I seldom wait more than a few minutes for a ride.