Althouse: At the 10 O’Clock Cafe...

July 11, 2019

At the 10 O’Clock Cafe...

... talk all you like.

59 comments:

narciso said...: Nova ardilla:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/11/matteo-salvinis-party-under-investigation-for-alleged-russian-oil-deal; 7/11/19, 10:13 PM
JML said...: Teleworked today. Between calls and spreadsheets, I managed to water every single seedling (Desert Willows, NM Olive and a few Austrian Pines)on my 1 acre lot here in Placitas, NM. Deep water - it is hot and dry and the trees need it. Meade would be proud.; 7/11/19, 10:15 PM
J. Farmer said...: Since it was more of a general comment, I decided to move this up from the race card post...

I don't agree with much of AOC's politics, but I would certainly prefer her brand of earnest leftism to a centrist Establishment stand-in like Nancy Pelosi. The Establishment does not really care if its Nancy Pelosi or Paul Ryan as Speaker of the House. That whole thing is largely a dog and pony show.

If Bernie Sanders were not such a pipsqueak, he could have actually helped move the Democrats in the appropriate direction. That is, play up economic/one-percenter issues (which are quite popular with voters) and downplay identity politics/immigration (which are quite unpopular with the voters). The DNC has decided instead to go all in on identity politics and wait for demography to do the rest.; 7/11/19, 10:17 PM
narciso said...: Hes hired a whole bunch of culture warriors:

https://www.jta.org/quick-reads; 7/11/19, 10:24 PM
Ignatius Acton Chesterton OCD said...: Pelosi’s comments today about a “Global Society” are transparently insane.

What if States or cities applied their newly-imagined ICE/DHS standards to BATFE? Should States be able to ignore federal firearms laws because they don’t reflect that State’s “values?’

Asking fir a friend.; 7/11/19, 10:36 PM
J. Farmer said...: Pelosi’s comments today about a “Global Society” are transparently insane.

Indeed they are. But a "global society" is the ultimate goal of the progressive movement. Read Colonel House's Philip Dru: Administrator, published anonymously in 1912.; 7/11/19, 10:42 PM
narciso said...: That Epsteins tentacles stretching out to Israel; 7/11/19, 10:47 PM
traditionalguy said...: Historically Democracy has always been a continual struggle of a small merchant and banking community with tactical bargaining power enough to gain concessions from the King that rules everywhere else, for a season.

Read carefully, that means you always have to fight and never surrender.; 7/11/19, 10:50 PM
Birkel said...: Is this the correct recap of the news today?
Pelosi is racist.
AOC is stupid.
Trump invited supporters to the White House.
The federal government will collect info on illegal aliens, but not on the census.

And no sports except tennis.; 7/11/19, 10:57 PM
J. Farmer said...: @traditionalguy:

Historically Democracy has always been a continual struggle of a small merchant and banking community with tactical bargaining power enough to gain concessions from the King that rules everywhere else, for a season.

I would not even say it was a struggle. Democratic systems will always devolve to oligarchy. It's what Robert Michels coined the "iron law of oligarchy." And any classical liberal of the 19th century would've been highly skeptical, if not outright contemptuous, of democracy.; 7/11/19, 10:59 PM
J. Farmer said...: That Epsteins tentacles stretching out to Israel

Steve Sailer had a post on this today. Of course the Unz commenters ate it up.; 7/11/19, 11:02 PM
narciso said...: Short answer salvini goes after the deep state, they punch back.; 7/11/19, 11:10 PM
J. Farmer said...: Short answer salvini goes after the deep state, they punch back.

Shocking that Italians don't want to have the pay the price for the US, UK, and France's military adventurism in Libya.; 7/11/19, 11:15 PM
narciso said...: Salvini has tried to stay out of Libya, you know the rest of the line.; 7/11/19, 11:19 PM
J. Farmer said...: Salvini has tried to stay out of Libya, you know the rest of the line.

You have to give the old Colonel credit. He tried to warn the Italians of what would happen. In retrospect, paying him off seems like a much smarter strategy than destroying him.; 7/11/19, 11:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey, lawyers in the Althouse community--what is the definition of a domestic enemy?

I hear that our government officials swear to protect the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Does declaring your city a sanctuary from federal immigration laws make the city council members domestic enemies?; 7/11/19, 11:29 PM
narciso said...: Yes Berlusconi was...distracted, perhaps I thought he was mistaken when they were bringing up the Gitmo detainees, bin qumu and Salah barri but he was right.; 7/11/19, 11:31 PM
J. Farmer said...: perhaps I thought he was mistaken when they were bringing up the Gitmo detainees

Don't even get me started on Gitmo. The so called "war on terror" launched since 9/11 has been a sad joke. Neocons love a literary narrative and a generational struggle and were eager to declare the war on Islamic terrorism World War III or World War IV or the new Cold War. In fact, Al Qaeda was a mostly small organization mostly success at fundraising due to bin Laden's connections in the Arab world that managed to exploit a few lax security loopholes. A simple tightening of immigration law could have prevented it. The US could have easily dealt with Al Qaeda through the use of special forces and the CIA's Special Activities Division. We never needed to overthrow the Taliban, occupy Afghanistan, and assume the responsibility for putting another government in its place.

By the way, just a few weeks ago, two more young Americans, 32-year-old Master Sgt. Micheal Riley and 24-year-old Sgt. James Johnston, were killed in Afghanistan. That young American men continue to die in that godforsaken place makes me want to vomit.; 7/11/19, 11:49 PM
Ken B said...: Farmer
I wonder if you are right about what is popular with voters. It’s not that I disagree about what polls well, it’s that I think what really matters is team solidarity. That is, anger and motivation for the 45% the Dems have a lock on might matter more than the persuadable 15% who worry about the issues you list. Bolsheviks beat Mensheviks as it were.; 7/12/19, 12:01 AM
narciso said...: They have many people in many countries bin qumu was part of the Libyan branch Qaddafi had ordered interpol to go after bin laden after the plot against him which involved mi 5 operatives; 7/12/19, 12:06 AM
narciso said...: The problem is the Taliban sought sanctuary in Pakistan, which is a much bigger issue, much as it was witn Laos and Cambodia in the previous war.; 7/12/19, 12:11 AM
J. Farmer said...: @KenB:

That is, anger and motivation for the 45% the Dems have a lock on might matter more than the persuadable 15% who worry about the issues you list. Bolsheviks beat Mensheviks as it were.

I am not precisely sure where you get the 45% figure. When you consider polling over time, you generally arrive at about a third of the population saying they are liberal, a third saying they are moderate, and a third saying they are conservative, which some degree of variance up or down year by year. In my experience, a good number of Americans are not really involved much in politics and can be persuaded either way to vote for a Democrat or Republican.

Part of Trump's strategy was tacking left on certain economic issues (promising to protect Medicare from Ryan's voucherization scheme, skepticism towards outsourcing and "free" market arrangements) and right on certain social issues (the wall, stopping immigration, abortion). For years we were told that the "fiscally conservative, economically liberal" position was what Americans really wanted. I think that's 180 degrees wrong. What Americans generally want is to be able to raise their families successfully. They don't want to be lectured about white privilege and trans bathrooms, and they don't want to have to compete with cheap labor via outsourcing and loose immigration.; 7/12/19, 12:18 AM
narciso said...: I dont know the answer but you really think that we could have succeeded without toppling the taliban; 7/12/19, 12:19 AM
narciso said...: Except Medicare and social security are the largest part of the budget. Its ultimately unsustainable, which is tragic; 7/12/19, 12:23 AM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

They have many people in many countries bin qumu was part of the Libyan branch Qaddafi had ordered interpol to go after bin laden after the plot against him which involved mi 5 operatives

Part of the result of the war on terror was to create the Al Qaeda franchise. Many people have adopted that name because it is associated with a group that they believe delivered a great blow to an enemy. These radical salafists have been around for decades while providing little nuisance to the US. In fact, for a lot of the second half of the 20th century, the US courted radical Islamists as a bulwark against communist intrusion.

The problem is the Taliban sought sanctuary in Pakistan, which is a much bigger issue, much as it was witn Laos and Cambodia in the previous war.

Well, some of the Taliban did, and the Taliban have certainly been supported by elements in Pakistan who view Afghanistan as a form of strategic depth against their main enemy, pagan India. But recall that even among the Taliban, hosting Osama bin Laden was very controversial, and many members wanted him expelled, as they saw his presence and activities as bringing undue pressure on the country. The decision to host bin Laden was primarily a function of Mullah Omar's personal connection to him. However, after Clinton's bombing of Khost in 1998, the Taliban rallied around bin Laden, since expelling him after the attacks would have made it look as though they were capitulating in the face of an attack by a foreign power.; 7/12/19, 12:25 AM
J. Farmer said...: @narciso:

I dont know the answer but you really think that we could have succeeded without toppling the taliban

I am not sure what you mean by "succeeded" in that context. Do I believe we could have decimated Al Qaeda without toppling the Taliban? Yes. If anything, the operations against the Taliban were a distraction. Special forces and SAD operatives were already operating in Afghanistan before the war under the so called "Jawbreaker" operation. The US could have used air power to prevent the Taliban from operating against them. Once we overthrew the Taliban, we became responsible for putting something in its place, and we've been trying to prop that up ever since. Again, the notion that young American men are dying to protect a corrupt government in Kabul is disgusting.; 7/12/19, 12:33 AM
walter said...: To ignore the destructive baggage that Berno would bring is folly.; 7/12/19, 12:38 AM
walter said...: Don't get me wrong..his (apparent) earnestness is actually helpful.; 7/12/19, 12:41 AM
J. Farmer said...: @walter:

To ignore the destructive baggage that Berno would bring is folly.

I think the "destructive baggage" is largely overblown. That is a narrative pushed by the Establishment largely through the media and a network of think tanks. Sanders is basically a New Deal democrat. He ould be hamstrung to a degree by Congress. But Sanders is right to point out the rigged nature of the system. I think he largely has the diagnosis correct, even if I disagree with his treatment plan. I used to say half-jokingly in 2016 that my second choice after Trump was Sanders. Partly because it inspired odd looks and partly because it was true. Although, once Sanders let two fat black BLM protesters commandeer his microphone, I lost a lot of respect for him. The guy's a total nebbish.; 7/12/19, 12:50 AM
walter said...: Many can point out problems, fewer can solve the them..or prevent further damage trying with misguieded or corrupt attempts.
Though Berno sure looked feeble as he was forced from his lectern, it's low on my scale of Berno critiques.; 7/12/19, 1:03 AM
Sprezzatura said...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdufzXvjqw; 7/12/19, 1:27 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Walter:

Though Berno sure looked feeble as he was forced from his lectern, it's low on my scale of Berno critiques.

What is high on your scale? At least Sanders recognizes and admits that immigration is a cheap labor scheme. Do I think he would do much about it? No. But then again I chose Donald Trump because I thought he would do something about it, and so far he has been pretty feeble on the issue. Harping on unemployment numbers and GDP growth is a waste of time and is an outdated econometric to judge the health of a society. Once demography does its work in places like Texas and Florida, we are heading for Brazil. If you think identity politics and ethnic strife are issues now, just wait until we are a majority minority country. Whites, Jews, and East Asians will form a technocratic elite with blacks and Hispanics largely wallowing in the bottom. Both groups have average IQs in the 80s. How do you think that will fare in the future economy? See Fritz Lang's Metropolis.; 7/12/19, 1:33 AM
Sprezzatura said...: I don't know the ways of yesterdays.

Is going south for salad the same as tossing such?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4csFnpZXek

I dunno.; 7/12/19, 1:34 AM
J. Farmer said...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdufzXvjqw

It was only 14 years between Rock Around the Clock and The Stooges' first album, and it was only 9 years between Rappers Delight and NWA's Straight Outta Compton.; 7/12/19, 1:38 AM
walter said...: "What is high on your scale?"
Medicare for All, CAGW imperatives and any number of other implied burdens.
If he got near the presidency, I suspect there would be the kind of fallout Krugman predicted with Trump.; 7/12/19, 1:52 AM
Pierre said...: Mmoah a pas cher
dofus kamas à vendre; 7/12/19, 4:16 AM
BUMBLE BEE said...: Trump has elevated the awareness of the illegals presence. No one would guess that Portland Maine is flooded with Somalis. Nor would most people imagine Mexicans in North Carolina, much less Muslim "compounds" in the Carolina hill country. Last report, (years old, I admit), FBI and Homeland Security were on to 1500 "possibles".
I see the fact that dumocrats don't want you to know how many are present as tacit admission of "too many". Your grandchildren will be paying thru the nose for this folly. It is with criminal intent that this continues unabated, after all.; 7/12/19, 5:46 AM
iowan2 said...: Farmer knows lots of stuff. You would think a person like that would have alternative plans to replace all the stuff he knows is being done wrong.
What I am saying is, declaring something wrong, quoting some obscure expert to support your premise, and wrapping yourself in smug, has long ago lost its allure, if it ever had any.

You're like a peacock fanning your tail feathers hoping to get laid. Impressive the first few times you see it, but in short order its clear, you're nothing but show.; 7/12/19, 5:52 AM
Tank said...: Three days ago I asked my neighbor to water my flowers. Since then it has rained one inch per day. Thems results.; 7/12/19, 6:09 AM
rehajm said...: Does declaring your city a sanctuary from federal immigration laws make the city council members domestic enemies?

There are criminal punishments for accessory and/or aiding and abetting. We prosecute government officials who commit crimes in the course of their employ all the time. It seems no different in matters of illegal immigration.; 7/12/19, 6:54 AM
Kevin said...: Does declaring your city a sanctuary from federal immigration laws make the city council members domestic enemies?

Apparently not as long as you continually repeat that the President is “lawless” and should be removed from office.

That seems to be the distraction that’s required.; 7/12/19, 7:04 AM
Kevin said...: The Left screams obstruction of justice as they roll out ever-more sanctuary cities.; 7/12/19, 7:05 AM
tcrosse said...: Tom Steyer's campaign ads have been getting heavy airplay. What a doofus.; 7/12/19, 7:37 AM
Hagar said...: Does declaring your city a sanctuary from federal immigration laws make the city council members domestic enemies?

It is seditious, so yes.; 7/12/19, 7:48 AM
Michael K said...: If anything, the operations against the Taliban were a distraction. Special forces and SAD operatives were already operating in Afghanistan before the war under the so called "Jawbreaker" operation.

Yes. Once "Big Army" arrived and told the SF guys to "shave and get in uniform" we were lost.

I wanted us to get out in 2009. That was ten years ago,.; 7/12/19, 8:12 AM
stevew said...: Friday, July 12, 2019 and it appears the USWNT's 15 minutes have passed.; 7/12/19, 8:14 AM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Was Ghislaine following in daddy's footsteps? Was she epstien's handler/liaison/madame?
If they're both talking it could be mind-blowing; 7/12/19, 9:12 AM
Fen said...: I am not sure what you mean by "succeeded" in that context. Do I believe we could have decimated Al Qaeda without toppling the Taliban? Yes. If anything, the operations against the Taliban were a distraction. Special forces and SAD operatives were already operating in Afghanistan before the war under the so called "Jawbreaker" operation. The US could have

Hey is Micheal K on the thread? I just wanted to say I read somewhere that you should have made that incision 2 centimeters to the left and proscribed (drug I can't pronounce) instead of that other (drug I can't pronounce). The reporter also claims you misdiagnosed the cause, as anyone can clearly see from their couch 5,000 miles away from the ER.

Would you like to have an argument with me about all that?; 7/12/19, 9:29 AM
Michael K said...: Would you like to have an argument with me about all that?

Good timing. I just got off the phone with my sister about the incompetent care her husband is getting.

I am getting old but the decline in the quality of medical care is obvious even to my cardiologist. He and I agreed we are both smarter than our general internists and manage our own care. I can't do it for my brother-in-law though.

Are you expressing an opinion about Afghanistan?; 7/12/19, 10:23 AM
Narr said...: Old white people who have the money, most definitely including liberal white people, will be cared for by poor black and brown people who have been taught that white people are the enemy.

The outlines are there now.

Narr
Stay healthy my friends; 7/12/19, 11:19 AM
J. Farmer said...: @iowan2:

Farmer knows lots of stuff. You would think a person like that would have alternative plans to replace all the stuff he knows is being done wrong.

What I wrote 5 hours before your comment: "The US could have easily dealt with Al Qaeda through the use of special forces and the CIA's Special Activities Division."

What I am saying is, declaring something wrong, quoting some obscure expert to support your premise, and wrapping yourself in smug, has long ago lost its allure, if it ever had any.

I quoted no obscure expert in this thread. I said that I thought the Afghanistan war was a mistake and why it was a mistake. And, shockingly, you have zero response to my argument but to try to insult me. Grow the fuck up. News flash, the opinion of some anonymous internet commenter about me personally means less to me than the dirt on the ground.

You're like a peacock fanning your tail feathers hoping to get laid. Impressive the first few times you see it, but in short order its clear, you're nothing but show.

Terrific. Now tell me what I said that you wish to take exception with.; 7/12/19, 2:20 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Fen:

If you want to take exception to what I said about the Afghanistan War, try making an actual argument instead of just being a snide prick.; 7/12/19, 2:23 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Fen:

I just wanted to say I read somewhere that you should have made that incision 2 centimeters to the left and proscribed (drug I can't pronounce) instead of that other (drug I can't pronounce). The reporter also claims you misdiagnosed the cause, as anyone can clearly see from their couch 5,000 miles away from the ER.

Yeah, I shouldn't have an opinion about my countrymen dying in a pointless war. But I guess since I am not an expert, I am not allowed to have an opinion on the matter. Two young American men just died recently in Afghanistan. Care to tell me what they were fighting/dying for?; 7/12/19, 2:25 PM
Fen said...: Yeah, I shouldn't have an opinion about my countrymen dying in a pointless war. But I guess since I am not an expert

You are allowed to have an opinion.

I am allowed to have an opinion about that opinion.

Why do you think it's okay for you but not for me?; 7/12/19, 3:38 PM
Fen said...: Are you expressing an opinion about Afghanistan?

Nah, apologies for the friendly fire, if there was any. I didn't see your post about Af/Pak until after, and I'm in agreement with you that we should have gotten out long ago.

I just thought you would get a kick out of armchair quarterbacks arguing medical procedures based on an article they read on National Geographic. That's what Farmer's smug ramblings on foreign policy remind me of.

Have you had patients ever respond with "...but Web MD says otherwise..."; 7/12/19, 3:44 PM
Fen said...: try making an actual argument instead of just being a snide prick.

A day may come when I make an argument instead of just being a snide prick, but...; 7/12/19, 3:49 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: Justice Department Sat on Mountain of Epstein Evidence for 10 Years

https://www.theepochtimes.com/justice-department-sat-on-mountain-of-epstein-evidence-for-10-years_2996970.html; 7/12/19, 5:36 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: USA Accuses Jeffrey Epstein of Witness Intimidation (28 pages)
https://cryptome.org/2019/07/epstein-011.pdf … (2MB)

*******

Concord Management and the End of Russiagate?

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/07/12/concord-management-and-the-end-of-russiagate/; 7/12/19, 5:39 PM
J. Farmer said...: @Fen:

I just thought you would get a kick out of armchair quarterbacks arguing medical procedures based on an article they read on National Geographic. That's what Farmer's smug ramblings on foreign policy remind me of.

Armchair quarterbakc? Yeah, I guess as an American citizenship, I shouldn't question or have an opinion about when my country goes to war. Much better to defer to the "experts." Hell, when have they ever gotten anything wrong.

Why do you think it's okay for you but not for me?

My opinion was about the war. Your opinion is about me. Try growing up and getting over the fact that your mother doesn't like you very much you sad little man.; 7/12/19, 11:26 PM