Althouse: At the Late Morning Café...

April 23, 2019

At the Late Morning Café...

... you are, once again, on your own.

UPDATE: Late morning extends into late evening. Thanks for all the talk!

376 comments:

1 – 200 of 376 Newer› Newest»

Chuck said...: Congratulations!

Trump approval tumbles to new low for 2019 in the wake of Mueller report.; 4/23/19, 10:08 AM
mockturtle said...: Someone here recommended the German film, The Lives of Others about the GDR secret police in the 80's. Thank you!!! I watched it yesterday and was blown away. Great plot, great acting, frightening glimpse of what our country might be like in a decade or so. Highly recommend it.; 4/23/19, 10:10 AM
walter said...: Yes, Chuck.
Mission accomplished..for now.; 4/23/19, 10:14 AM
Temujin said...: I admire your retirement approach and will consider using it as a template for my own. Of course, I know nothing of your retirement approach other than you are here sometimes, then gone. I like that. I hope to be here sometimes, then gone for extended periods soon. Sooner than later.

PS- Chuck, check all polls, not just the ones that make you feel good.; 4/23/19, 10:15 AM
rhhardin said...: The NYT writes that one of Trump's Federal Reserve appointees is under scrutiny for having made jokes about women.

Not very good jokes. I guess just establishing himself as not going along with whatever was going along in those days but he wasn't a good quipster.; 4/23/19, 10:17 AM
DougWeber said...: Had an interesting thought this morning that turned out to mesh with an oped in the WSJ.

The assumption has been that the "real" motivation of Democratic party has been to get a lot of pro-Democrat votes via illegal immigrants in the long run. But maybe that is not the plan. The issues in the census issue today point out that the total number of people, legal or illegal, in a state or district are used for districting and allocation of significant federal resources. Given this, it would be a reasonable tactic to try to fill one's currently held and safe districts with as many people as possible. Since illegal immigrants do not vote but count for representation and largess, they are the perfect group to use to generate a large count.

The result would be that states with a lot of illegal immigrants, which are mostly Democratic voting, would have larger representation in Congress and would get a larger amount of federal aid.

If this analysis is true, one would expect the current rabid concern for the "rights" of illegal immigrant to wane after the 2020 census is completed.

We will see; 4/23/19, 10:17 AM
rhhardin said...: Erratic Althouse posting usually means they're on the road.; 4/23/19, 10:18 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: @Mock,

Someone here recommended the German film, The Lives of Others about the GDR secret police in the 80's

Incredible flick. Knocked me outta my socks. 300 Hollywood movies about the evil Nazis, and only 1 movie about the evil Soviets? Well, that's life.

An awfully good, well-acted movie, about how the Commie scum used to operate.; 4/23/19, 10:19 AM
Darrell said...: Fake polls.

One day we'll find a poll that says Chuck is worth the powder to blow him to Hell.; 4/23/19, 10:19 AM
gahrie said...: Trump's approval rating is 39% according to Politico (avowed enemies of Trump)
Congress's approval rating is 26%
MSM approval rating is around 6%
Obama approval rating April 2011 was 46%

This is after four years of constant hysterical attacks from the Left, the MSM and the never Trumpers.; 4/23/19, 10:19 AM
iowan2 said...: Polls for the last 60 days, and periodically since the election, that showed President Trump exactly (within margin of error) as popular as Obama, were ignored because shut up.; 4/23/19, 10:32 AM
Maillard Reactionary said...: Bay Area Guy said: "...about how the Commie scum used to operate."

Still operate. But now they call themselves Progressives and Democratic Socialists.; 4/23/19, 10:35 AM
Yancey Ward said...: I would guess the polls were told by their benefactors to either show Trump's approval decline or rise after the report. In other words, I think all of these polls are political to the core any more.; 4/23/19, 10:35 AM
Howard said...: Anything but the Mueller report; 4/23/19, 10:36 AM
MadisonMan said...: I am also out of town, and sort of enjoying it. I do find myself wondering what's happening in the garden while I am away though.; 4/23/19, 10:38 AM
JackWayne said...: DougWeber, the problem is the Constitution. It specifically names People, not citizens, to be counted in the Census. I expect our “conservative” Court to rule that way also.; 4/23/19, 10:38 AM
MadisonMan said...: My wife was happy to report yesterday that it was raining - and the windows were open! So Spring is here!!; 4/23/19, 10:38 AM
walter said...: There will be more on that scenario, Howie. Especially regarding the overreach of the sanctiComeyous players in the "insurance plan".; 4/23/19, 10:41 AM
Tank said...: Plus one for The Lives of Others, a really good, disturbing flick.; 4/23/19, 10:42 AM
rehajm said...: Thirty seconds on RCP shows mid to upper 40s from multiple pollsters. Nate Silver would call a 37 an ‘outlier’ that needs confirmation. As we learned last Presidential cycle MSM and others disproportionately report these when its to their benefit.; 4/23/19, 10:42 AM
Birches said...: I'm guessing Meadehouse is on the left coast.; 4/23/19, 10:46 AM
Maillard Reactionary said...: I read the article from IEEE Spectrum (https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer) about the Boeing 737 MAX fiasco.

In a post a few weeks back, I stated that rushing that software "patch" out after only a few weeks of testing (as was the POR at that time) was madness.

I had no idea. Actually, I'm shocked just as much that at this age, and with as much experience in the electronics industry as I have, that I could have been so naive about the scope of the issue.

In my opinion, this is the worst incident of management/technical malpractice since the Challenger Disaster. Although this time they outdid it by a ratio of 346 dead to 7. The whole MAX program was based on a lie, that that airplane was essentially the same as the original 737, but with better gas mileage. That allowed Boeing to save millions by not having to get another type certification.

It involved concealing the fact that the 737 MAX is dynamically unstable. Had the FAA known that, the airplane would never have gotten approval to fly. (But perhaps I'm being naive again, by thinking that.) As the writer pointed out, commercial airliners are not allowed to by dynamically unstable. Fighter jets are, but they have ejection seats.

Read the article if you fly, or plan to fly, and be sure to check the ID tag on the door frame when you enter. It will be your last chance to turn back.

I think it was Lily Tomlin who said "I try to be cynical, but I can't keep up." How many a true word is said in jest!; 4/23/19, 10:50 AM
M Jordan said...: Since Bernie wants felons to vote, let him show the way by going to Dylann Roof’s cell and harvesting his ballot.; 4/23/19, 10:54 AM
Fernandinande said...: This is timely enough (only 109 years ago) to merit a repost -
"The Trump"-JAP 1910 V-Twin; 4/23/19, 10:55 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: In the Normal world -- Dems would advocate issues, try to win the hearts and minds of Americans, and try to win a majority of Electoral College votes in the Presidential election of 2020.

In the Dem/Media/lefitst/Nevertrumper world -- gerry-rig appointment of special prosecutor through leaks and bogus FBI counter-intelligence case, investigate Russian-Collusion hoax for 2 years, try to indict President on framed, unauthorized surveillance; as a Plan B, if not indictable, publish bullshit, one-sided, tedious report designed to cast cloud on President , sink his poll numbers, continue further House investigations, try to impeach, try to further sink his polls -- win Presidential election of 2020.

I am cautiously optimistic that Trump will win reelection in 2020. If so, it will be as glorious as it was in 2016.; 4/23/19, 10:58 AM
wildswan said...: The Lives of Others. Although it's the only film I've seen on life under Communism that increases its impact. It is what I use to imagine life under an American Stasi, such as would continue to exist and would intensify under Sanders. Part of draining the swamp under Trump must consist of reining in the rogue sections of the intelligence agencies that are running the Stasi side of American life. So far in Operation Boomerang Trump has very effectively exposed these cells and their methods and their indifference to legality. They are exactly what Chuck Schumer said existed: a group that will try six ways from Sunday to get anyone who criticizes or tries to limit them. Now the members of these groups have to be imprisoned without wrecking the legitimate operations of the FBI and the CIA. It won't be pretty. If a person has burned or decayed or gangrenous flesh the best way to clean out the dead flesh without destroying healthy flesh is to put maggots on them since maggots only eat dead flesh. This is similar to what Barr has to do and the process will be sickening.; 4/23/19, 10:58 AM
Yancey Ward said...: Phidippus,

One of the stories I saw indicated that the new jet's engines had to be mounted further forward because the plane's wings were too close to the ground when not airborne, unlike the new A320 with the same new, more efficient engines. I wondered why Boeing didn't just raise the landing gear rather than change the engine mounting configuration- that made more sense to me, but then I am not an aviation engineer.; 4/23/19, 11:00 AM
wildswan said...: I see Chuck is stubbornly sitting at the table listening to the band play Autumn Leaves as the deck of the Titanic tilts and his dinner companion, Inga, sprints for the boats. It's hard to know which to admire more - or less.; 4/23/19, 11:03 AM
livermoron said...: The name 'Althouse' is Anglicized German(Altes Haus) meaning old house.
In German conversational usage the term has a different meaning... Calling someone an 'altes Haus' implies that the person so-called is a great friend, bosom buddy, reliable pal; someone with whom you can 'steal horses' (Pferde stehlen).

Ooops, there's the bell... Test on Thursday! Bring a number 2 pencil.
Take care.; 4/23/19, 11:04 AM
daskol said...: Daffy Chuck: Trump’s despicable!; 4/23/19, 11:04 AM
viator said...: According to Bloomberg, key justices "seemed inclined to let the Trump administration add a question about citizenship to the 2020 census" during Tuesday oral arguments.

Hearing arguments in Washington, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Brett Kavanaugh directed almost all their questions to the lawyers challenging the decision to ask about citizenship. Kavanaugh said Congress gave the Commerce secretary "huge discretion" to decide what to ask on the census. -Bloomberg

from Lawrence Hurley

Chief Justice: "quite common" for demographic questions to be asked in the census
Kavanaugh: "very common" in other countries for citizenship question to be asked; 4/23/19, 11:06 AM
Yancey Ward said...: Chuck,

I have seen a story that shows the Mueller Report contains a secret message that reads "Trump has been indicted". It is hidden in code on the pages that are prime numbers. See if you can find it.; 4/23/19, 11:07 AM
Virgil Hilts said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/23/19, 11:09 AM
Yancey Ward said...: I think it clear that if you can ask for ethnicity, income, and other demographic details, you can certainly ask about citizenship. That you have to go to SCOTUS to get this approved tells me that the courts are damned near worthless arbiters of the law.; 4/23/19, 11:10 AM
bagoh20 said...: " Since illegal immigrants do not vote but count for representation and largess, they are the perfect group to use to generate a large count."

Then they should welcome Trump's plan to send them lots more.; 4/23/19, 11:10 AM
daskol said...: Not mayor Pete! He seems like such a nice young lad.; 4/23/19, 11:10 AM
Virgil Hilts said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/23/19, 11:12 AM
Michael K said...: According to Bloomberg, key justices "seemed inclined to let the Trump administration add a question about citizenship to the 2020 census" during Tuesday oral arguments.

You should see all the protesters carrying signs in Spanish and using bullhorns to rant in Spanish how unfair it all is.; 4/23/19, 11:13 AM
bagoh20 said...: I think the census methodology is pretty unlikely to get accurate counts, and is certainly not worth the cost. 100 people working with computer programs could probably do a much closer estimate.; 4/23/19, 11:15 AM
Michael K said...: I wondered why Boeing didn't just raise the landing gear rather than change the engine mounting configuration- that made more sense to me, but then I am not an aviation engineer.

We've had a long discussion at one of the less political blogs I read. It would probably require a whole new wing box to retract the gear.; 4/23/19, 11:15 AM
Hagar said...: " Since illegal immigrants do not vote but count for representation and largess, they are the perfect group to use to generate a large count."

They cost more than they bring in, besides what the bring in is made up from what the Feds take out.
Math is hard.; 4/23/19, 11:19 AM
heyboom said...: I'm more than a little worried about the upcoming SCOTUS decision on adding a citizenship question to the census. Mainly because Chief Justice Roberts has shown a tendency to appear retaliatory against the Trump administration in his recent rulings.; 4/23/19, 11:22 AM
Humperdink said...: Polling:

L.A. Times
Clinton 352, Trump 186

Moody’s Analytics
Clinton 332, Trump 206

Rothenberg & Gonzales
Clinton 323, Trump 197

Sabato
Clinton 322, Trump 216

And finally, the gurus of gurus: FiveThirtyEight
Clinton 302, Trump 235

Here's to you LLR!; 4/23/19, 11:23 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: About that Scotus case re census.

The remarkable thing is that the media casually report that 7% of the US population here is illegal immigrants. They make it seem like this is a trifling number, only 7%.

Well, if the country is about 330 Million, that's 23 Million folks.

23 Million folks who aren't citizens, who don't have a stake in the country.

Yes, I agree that cheap labor has its benefits. And given that illegals send "remittances" of $69 Billion back to Mexico, the benefits appear to be mutual.

But any fool can see that the Dems and Chamber of Commerce GOP are using these illegals as a political weapon to chip away at the American experiment.

Any problems if the 7% grows to, say, 14% or 20%?

At some point, pockets of this country stop being American, and start being something else.

So, Yes, let's count them and do something about them.; 4/23/19, 11:24 AM
Marcus Bressler said...: Don't care about no polls. Given his performance and the candidates lining up against him, he's heading for a McGovern or even a Mondale-type blowout in 2020.

THEOLDMAN; 4/23/19, 11:28 AM
Rory said...: They've announced that the President will pay a state visit to the Queen in June. This can only mean that British intelligence is implicated to its eyeballs in the coup attempt.; 4/23/19, 11:29 AM
narciso said...: It is the tradition of the zinoviev letter, on one side and the trust on the other.; 4/23/19, 11:38 AM
narciso said...: Evers should wear babylonian garments when vetoing the born alive bill, remember Walker was a key right to life activist as county executive.; 4/23/19, 11:40 AM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Bay Area Guy,
"Well, if the country is about 330 Million, that's 23 Million folks."

And if, say, 20% of them vote? Which doesn't seem unrealistic, considering that is some areas they are literally encouraged to do so, most places do not require an ID to vote, there is little chance of being punished if they are caught, and there is strong incentive to vote for certain candidates?

Close to five million votes - what impact does that have in nation as evenly split politically as the U.S. is?; 4/23/19, 11:40 AM
Achilles said...: Trump just tweeted this:

I wonder if the New York Times will apologize to me a second time, as they did after the 2016 Election. But this one will have to be a far bigger & better apology. On this one they will have to get down on their knees & beg for forgiveness-they are truly the Enemy of the People!

Emphasis mine.

This is what I would refer to as an initiator.

It looks like there will be some journalists involved in the conspiracy and facing serious charges.; 4/23/19, 11:43 AM
walter said...: Think an illegal immigrant is going to volunteer that status?; 4/23/19, 11:44 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: I'm surprised that Buttigieg admitted to six figure student debt with his partner. That is not confidence inspiring.; 4/23/19, 11:46 AM
Roughcoat said...: The best anti-communist movie is "The Dancer Upstairs." Directed by John Malkovich and set in an unnamed/fictional South American country meant to represent Peru, it is a fictional treatment of the struggle to defeat the Shining Path movement and the hunt for Shining Path's leader, Abimael Guzman. Staring Javier Bardem as the incorruptible detective spearheading the effort to capture the Guzman-character.; 4/23/19, 11:46 AM
Achilles said...: Chuck uses an obvious outlier hack poll meant to shape opinion. Just like the douchey rat fuck he is.

Polls right now are more than meaningless.

People are going to get indicted. A lot of them.

Someone is going to point their finger at Obama in a plea agreement. Hopefully Flake and all the people that worked for McCain get swept up too. I wouldn't mind it if the "war hero" was posthumously identified for his conspiracy with foreign agents to remove a sitting president.

They all literally conspired with Steele, a foreign agent, to spread an obvious lie and get a warrant to spy on Trump with the eventual goal of removing him from office.

We have a long way to go.

It is time for consequences. Traitors hang.; 4/23/19, 11:53 AM
Achilles said...: Freeman Hunt said...
I'm surprised that Buttigieg admitted to six figure student debt with his partner. That is not confidence inspiring.

Aw come on. He is a victim! SIX FIGURES!

He got to hang out at school learning Norwegian so he could read a fucking book. That makes him intellectual!

But now he is burdened with debt. BURDENED! The HUMANITY!

The United States is just terrible. TERRIBLE! We have to have FREE COLLEGE.

FREE!!!

Remember. Buttigieg is intellectual. Smart. Smarter than Trump.

Trump is dumb. A dummy. Stupid. He doesn't support FREE COLLEGE.

FREE!; 4/23/19, 12:00 PM
Paul Zrimsek said...: Kamala Harris' contribution to future civics classes: How a Whim Becomes a Law.; 4/23/19, 12:01 PM
narciso said...: It's based on this guy:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2000/12/07/superman-meets-shining-path-story-of-a-cia-success/a152b9a0-3d85-4c42-9210-69b717fef10c/; 4/23/19, 12:01 PM
Sheridan said...: Jame Gumb as a blog commenter? Watch out, Trump.; 4/23/19, 12:01 PM
walter said...: Butti' went to Chuck approved colleges.
He speaks French too!; 4/23/19, 12:05 PM
Temujin said...: The Lives of Others; 4/23/19, 12:07 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: "Think an illegal immigrant is going to volunteer that status?"

No. I think it is certain that many won't.

But that's ok. The point is to shine some light on them.; 4/23/19, 12:08 PM
Marty said...: I've been reading volume 2 of Stephen Kotkin's Stalin biography, and I'm in the section chronicling the Great Terror of 1937-8. The chilling thing that stands out is the way Stalin used the threats of indiscriminate execution to force all the members of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and eventually everybody else to toe the party line. Once a critical mass of people were, to use Kotkin's delicate word, broken, they created a social meme that gathered its own momentum and added to the paranoia and helped increase the mass murder. It took decades for the Soviets to unclench from the poisonous treachery they let Stalin impose. Kotkin makes the point that all of this happened because of the logic of communist ideology that clung to belief that everyone was always and forever out to get them--including their own people!

Others on this thread have noted how the Stasi adopted the Stalinist approach, but the stench of this methodology is much in the air today. We have allowed ourselves to be brutalized into defensive behaviors imposed by the neo-Stalinists in our "ruling circles" (love the irony of the phrase).

If there is "good news" in this, it is the absence of a dictator with the will and ruthlessness to drive all before him. This is America, after all, with our love of ease and comfort. Not for us--yet--actual gulags, although the virtual ones are already here.

Unfortunately, Mr. Trump, while personally willing to take on the enemies of the American founding, has failed--along with the ruling circles in the GOP--to organize a mass counter-attack. Mass-based institutions are necessary to change historic trends, and the trend in this country toward some form of non-American "democratic socialism" is not far from being consolidated. I know; I live in California. Relying on ephemera like a vote-one majority on SCOTUS to alter the trend is ultimately a fantasy.

Not saying I have the answer. But as Buwaya might say, looking clearly at what's actually going on is a start.; 4/23/19, 12:09 PM
Jay Vogt said...: The Lives of Others is an important movie for sure. I'm going to add it to the list of movies that I try to get my family to watch. It's jarring and surprising for American audiences.

I've been trying to give my son, who's twenty two exposure to some classic movies. Ones that I'd make illusions to upon which he'd give me a blank state. In general he's been interested in the project and has appreciated the results. Over Christmas we watched Groundhog's Day and Planes, Trains & Automobiles. Lumps in throats all around.

Over this Easter weekend, we watched The Godfather (he'd heard me say "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli" and wondered where that came from. We also watched Die Hard as he was intrigued by the assertion that, "It's not Christmas until Hans Gruber falls of the Nakatomi Plaza. Now, I told him he can chime in on the debate as to whether DH is a Christmas movie or not.

It's hard to overstate how good of a movie The Godfather is.; 4/23/19, 12:09 PM
Lincolntf said...: I'm writing a :30 second PSA for a "Re-entry Expo" at a local Rec center. It's for ex-inmates transitioning back to society. I'm going to be graded on it, so I am reining in my temptation to do a humorous (and inappropriate) spot. I can't get the image of Michael Scott from The Office, as "Prison Mike", out of my head.; 4/23/19, 12:16 PM
Professional lady said...: Speaking of college debt, why not tax all those enormous endowment funds to pay it off? After all, if a college is sitting on a substantial endowment fund, why should it charge students outrageous tuition that requires getting into debt in the first place?; 4/23/19, 12:16 PM
Jay Vogt said...: Yeah, the point of view on all this is screwed up royally.
Smart people use leverage. Idiots are burdened by debt.
Ya gotta choose which you are.; 4/23/19, 12:16 PM
Original Mike said...: Blogger Phidippus said..."In my opinion, this is the worst incident of management/technical malpractice since the Challenger Disaster. Although this time they outdid it by a ratio of 346 dead to 7. The whole MAX program was based on a lie, that that airplane was essentially the same as the original 737, but with better gas mileage. That allowed Boeing to save millions by not having to get another type certification.

It involved concealing the fact that the 737 MAX is dynamically unstable."

It's appalling. I hope the sharks take Boeing to the cleaners. More importantly, I hope regulators never let that plane fly again. Do the right thing and design a proper plane.; 4/23/19, 12:21 PM
Rory said...: "Unfortunately, Mr. Trump, while personally willing to take on the enemies of the American founding, has failed--along with the ruling circles in the GOP--to organize a mass counter-attack. Mass-based institutions are necessary to change historic trends, and the trend in this country toward some form of non-American "democratic socialism" is not far from being consolidated."

A lot of this is just due to the Democrats' control of cities. They're able to leverage that to focus attention. The wildly differing interests of the people in those cities should be a quite a weakness.; 4/23/19, 12:22 PM
Original Mike said...: "We've had a long discussion at one of the less political blogs I read. It would probably require a whole new wing box to retract the gear."

Tough shit, Boeing.; 4/23/19, 12:25 PM
Jaq said...: It's hard to overstate how good of a movie The Godfather is

If only they hadn’t made Godfather III; 4/23/19, 12:29 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “It involved concealing the fact that the 737 MAX is dynamically unstable. Had the FAA known that, the airplane would never have gotten approval to fly. (But perhaps I'm being naive again, by thinking that.) As the writer pointed out, commercial airliners are not allowed to by dynamically unstable. Fighter jets are, but they have ejection seats.”

It was dynamically unstable because those new big engines don’t fit under a normal 737’s wings. So, they had the choice of going through the long process of certifying a new aircraft type, or pushing them forward and up, making the plane dynamically unstable. They chose the latter for business reasons (e.g. Southwest has flown one and only one aircraft since its founding - 737s in all their variants. And apparently showed little appetite adding a new aircraft to their fleet, esp since the simplified logistics of one flying only one aircraft type was one of the advantages they had over their largest competitors). And then tried to cover up the dynamic instability through software. Cute, but in the long run deadly, and a horrible business decision.; 4/23/19, 12:35 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: I think the census methodology is pretty unlikely to get accurate counts, and is certainly not worth the cost. 100 people working with computer programs could probably do a much closer estimate.

100 Philosopher Kings, maybe.

100 Democrat "Civil Servants", no.; 4/23/19, 12:36 PM
Original Mike said...: So, assuming they let the plane fly again, is it possible to know when you book what plane will be used? I'm guessing not, but it's a little late to wait until you're boarding.; 4/23/19, 12:38 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "It's hard to overstate how good of a movie The Godfather is"

Agree. Most (no, not all) '70's cinema is crap that has aged poorly, to say the least. The Godfather seems timeless. If you saw it for the first time yesterday, you'd be hard pressed to guess when it was made.; 4/23/19, 12:39 PM
narciso said...: Dimelo, (tell me about it); 4/23/19, 12:42 PM
narciso said...: I saw the conversation, a precursor to enemy of the state.; 4/23/19, 12:43 PM
Birkel said...: Journalists were paying government employees for leaks.

That's what Trump is referencing, I am betting.; 4/23/19, 12:45 PM
narciso said...: In practice life is more like the movie Brazil, Michael Cohen would remind you.; 4/23/19, 12:45 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “According to Bloomberg, key justices "seemed inclined to let the Trump administration add a question about citizenship to the 2020 census" during Tuesday oral arguments.”

So, Census asked about citizenship for decades. Dems in recent years get in charge of Census and eliminate the question. Now, with Republicans in charge, they are yelling foul for going back to the status quo ante.

As a note, I worked as a programmer for the 1980 Decennial Census (in Suitland, MD FOB 3). It was a good start for me in the software field. Unfortunately for them, I was offered a job in the systems programming branch. This was vetoed by the Asst Director in charge of the Decennial Census. I was told that I could take the lateral in 1981, after the bulk of the computer processing was complete. So a good friend of the systems programming branch chief offered me essentially the same job, but for the vendor who supplied Census their computers. He had a GS salary chart in front of him, and stated to me that they could promote me to X, which would make $Y, and offered me 15% above that. It worked. Moved over one wing and up one floor, and spent the next three years working for NOAA, but remained in my old coffee pool back in the Decennial Census Division.; 4/23/19, 12:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Marty mentions Kotkin's book on Stalin: been on the list for a while. I would commend S.S. Montefiore too.

We're much closer to being the USSA in many respects than even I, a cynic and student of politics since childhood, thought possible so soon.

We're becoming the sort of country where you watch what you say except among people you know and trust well, and always assume the authorities are spying on you. Just like back in the USSR.

The national security bureaucracy has ceased being a joke and is now a deadly threat to the last shreds of our fundamental freedoms.

Primitivism in all its forms: cultural, social, political, ethical, is not only tolerated but encouraged by our best and brightest.

That we're even arguing about whether a citizenship question is fair just proves how detached from reality much of our politics has become.

Narr
But I can still find people to laugh at here, so I do have that; 4/23/19, 12:52 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “I think the census methodology is pretty unlikely to get accurate counts, and is certainly not worth the cost. 100 people working with computer programs could probably do a much closer estimate.”

Maybe. The Dems have been pushing for guesstimating at least since I worked for Census. And the reason, of course, is because that would allow them to cheat. Polling is notoriously inaccurate, and the critical thing is the set of assumptions that the people in charge utilize to get to their final estimates. And those sets of assumptions would, no doubt, be tweaked one way or another, depending on which party controlled the Presidency, and thus the Census Bureau. Whenever this has been tried, it has so far been sufficient to just point at the Constitutional requirement for a Decennial Census as the bass for our Decennial reapportionment. Not guesstimate, but census, which means actually counting people.

Note that there is still a lot of fudging going on, but it is mostly at the lowest levels, where census takers “curb stone” their results by guessing at missing responses. I would suggest that it is much less open to major manipulation than would be the case if the manipulations were centralized In the statisticians working in Suitland FOB 3.; 4/23/19, 1:04 PM
Marty said...: Anonymous said, Primitivism in all its forms: cultural, social, political, ethical, is not only tolerated but encouraged by our best and brightest.

To be (slightly) fair to our beleaguered faux Stalinist elites, the global transition from the Industrial to Information economies is larger and more chaotic than even the 1930s world conditions that Uncle Joe so cynically tried to bend to his will.

The trend in the US to social democracy may just be a flailing about on the part of a significant portion of the citizenry in light of a world dynamic incapable of being controlled by anyone--not even Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg.

Much like conditions in the period between the two world wars it appears that our ruling institutions no longer work, so many, naturally fearing the worst, are susceptible to the Bernie/climatista siren songs. Lacking a powerful alternative, it is understandable that the gullible are tempted to sign on.

Alas, as the example of the Soviet Union proved, it's a mirage that will ultimately fade, leaving many victims in its wake.; 4/23/19, 1:04 PM
StephenFearby said...: The Federalist April 23, 2019

Seven Glaring Omissions In The Mueller Report That Kill Its Credibility

By Ben Weingarten

1. No Attempt to Grapple with the Investigation’s Troubling Underpinnings

2. No Discussion of Whether the Special Counsel’s Appointment Was Legitimate

[Per Andy Mccarthy] "A special counsel must be appointed based on a criminal investigation. The Mueller special counsel stemmed from a counterintelligence investigation. A special counsel’s scope must be tailored to “a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated.” The Mueller special counsel order did not seem to adhere to this standard, and in practice, its scope was virtually unlimited...."

3. No Discussion of Special Counsel’s Perceived Bias [not him, exactly, but the investigators he chose for his team]

4. Skating Over the Papadopoulos Predicate for the Collusion Investigations

5. Never Mentions Steele or His Dossier in the ‘Collusion’ Section

6. Excluding Relevant Information About Numerous Actors

"It is simply stunning the level of exculpatory evidence or at least needed context the Mueller report omits. While Steele and his dossier merit their own section, here are several other significant examples:

Steele’s benefactor and Fusion GPS colleague, its founder Glenn Simpson, are never mentioned by name...."

7. Raising Potential Russia Violations about Trump Not Applied to Clinton

"...These takeaways challenge the idea that the special counsel engaged in anything resembling an intellectually honest, objective, and good faith investigation. Rather, it would seem to indicate that wittingly or unwittingly, this was more politicized smear job and de facto coverup."

"...By presenting the collusion section as it did, similarly to the obstruction section, the counsel damaged the Trump administration to the greatest extent possible without affirming its criminality. It seems that Mueller pulled a Comey.

We must have a thorough investigation of the investigators. The growing cacophony of attacks on Attorney General William Barr are a testament to it."

https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/23/7-glaring-omissions-mueller-report-kill-credibility/; 4/23/19, 1:05 PM
Gospace said...: Lincolntf said...
I'm writing a :30 second PSA for a "Re-entry Expo" at a local Rec center. It's for ex-inmates transitioning back to society. I'm going to be graded on it, so I am reining in my temptation to do a humorous (and inappropriate) spot. I can't get the image of Michael Scott from The Office, as "Prison Mike", out of my head.

Here's where the problem lies in prison transition programs. You, the nice middle class guy, who lives and interacts with people who obey societies rules, both written and unwritten, are writing transition classes to bring that inmate back into a society where people obey societies rules, both written and unwritten. Trouble is- that's not where the inmates are going. They became inmates because they don't obey societies rules, and the people around him don't either. Rules are for suckers is the worldview criminals have, and they live in areas where that viewpoint predominates.; 4/23/19, 1:13 PM
Fen said...: Ooops, there's the bell... Test on Thursday! Bring a number 2 pencil.

Ha. I remember that.

There's a book idea behind that - The Lobbyist Who Made #2 King. An insider's account of the financial war that determined which brand of pencil would become the national standard.; 4/23/19, 1:14 PM
Darrell said...: Did Inga finally get arrested?

Wisconsin-mom-seven-pleads-guilty-trying-plot-ISIS-attacks.; 4/23/19, 1:15 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: After the Vietnam era, I was surprised to find myself as a conservative. Desperate for a better paying job, I got on the Civil Service register both for generic college grad, and for programmers. At one point, I was freed a job as a programmer for HEW, but told to show up for work the next Monday, more than halfway across the country. I was told when I turned it down that I had one more chance, and if I turned that one down, I would be dropped from the register. A month later, I got the job offer from the Decennial Census Branch, and jumped for it. While, as a young conservative, I couldn’t see or philosophically accept most federal govt agencies and departments, Census was different, for me. It is one of the very few federal government functions specifically called for in our Constitution, and it made possible Decennial reapportionments, which keep our government fairly representative (as contrasted to, for example, Japan, where representation was set geographically when they (or Douglas McArthur) created their new constitution right after WW II).; 4/23/19, 1:15 PM
narciso said...: who's the fledgeling author here:

https://www.toddstarnes.com/campus/new-high-school-textbook-describes-trump-as-mentally-ill-supporters-as-racist/; 4/23/19, 1:16 PM
mockturtle said...: Roughcoat offers: The best anti-communist movie is "The Dancer Upstairs." Directed by John Malkovich and set in an unnamed/fictional South American country meant to represent Peru, it is a fictional treatment of the struggle to defeat the Shining Path movement and the hunt for Shining Path's leader, Abimael Guzman. Staring Javier Bardem as the incorruptible detective spearheading the effort to capture the Guzman-character.

Sound good. I'm trying to picture Bardem as anything but a heinous villain and a very convincing one, at that. I'll order it.; 4/23/19, 1:21 PM
mockturtle said...: We're becoming the sort of country where you watch what you say except among people you know and trust well, and always assume the authorities are spying on you. Just like back in the USSR.

And the purging of our culture. So very Soviet.; 4/23/19, 1:23 PM
Fen said...: "Note that there is still a lot of fudging going on, but it is mostly at the lowest levels, where census takers “curb stone” their results by guessing at missing responses."

In high school I landed a summer job similar to the census. A new drive-thru (McD's I think) hired us to stand next to the order menu and ask customers what area of town they had come from. For 8 hours day.

First couple of days were fun, but then it got SO BORING. And I noticed that the data pretty much repeated it's pattern after 10am (I know, but I was young and stupid). So, for the rest of the summer I showed up 8-10am to get my templated, then retired to a nearby swimming pool for 6 hours of paid vacation, per day. When I got home that night, it took about an hour to fudge my reports, projecting the remaining 6 hours from the 2 that I actually worked.; 4/23/19, 1:24 PM
narciso said...: in other news:

https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/04/osundairo-brothers-sue-filed-federal-lawsuit-against-jussie-smolletts-attorneys/; 4/23/19, 1:27 PM
mockturtle said...: Marty: How about, for starters, we refuse to toe the line? If cities, counties and entire states can choose to ignore federal law, then why should we not?; 4/23/19, 1:28 PM
Humperdink said...: Speaking of free college, in this case a football scholarship, former University of Michigan star Rashan Gary apparently only scored a nine on the NFL's Wonderlic test.; 4/23/19, 1:32 PM
Fen said...: Freeman Hunt said: :I'm surprised that - "

Oh frack. Freeman's back! Check my teeth check my teeth! No lettuce? Smell me. I don't care just do it! I'm good to go? Okay. (slicks back hair) ..Good? (long exhale)

Oh hey Freeman! Long time. How ya been? Oh me? Not much.; 4/23/19, 1:35 PM
Jersey Fled said...: I've been looking at some old census forms on Ancestry lately, and it's amazing some of the questions that were asked in the early 1900's. For example, do you have a toilet or a radio in the house. (My grandparents had both. Obviously white privlege.)

I doubt that the Constitution specifically authorized the Census Department to ask that. BTW, this was on the short form.; 4/23/19, 1:42 PM
narayanan said...: Preamble to the United States Constitution

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

JackWayne said...DougWeber, the problem is the Constitution. It specifically names People, not citizens, to be counted in the Census. I expect our “conservative” Court to rule that way also.

discuss - "We the People of the United States" make census to count "People"; 4/23/19, 1:44 PM
Fen said...: Chuck: Congratulations!Trump approval tumbles to new low for 2019 in the wake of Mueller report.

And Hillary had a shot at turning Texas blue. Electoral landslide! 90% to win

Why do you keep falling for this shit, Chuck? But that's fine - my Election Pron folder is filled with people like you being jackasses only to shed delicious tears on election night.

Here's my fav.

Weird how you try to troll us though. Why, it's almost as if all of your vaunted principles bend over for tribalism. You should get that looked at.; 4/23/19, 1:50 PM
Humperdink said...: Maybe I am missing something, but as I understand it, the current wants count all the "people", including non-citizens. The administration merely wants non-citizens to counted as non-citizens.; 4/23/19, 1:50 PM
Etienne said...: Student Loans were sold to poor people just like Subprime Mortgage Loans were sold to America's underbelly.

The difference is, Congress made sure they could not just declare bankruptcy to default on the loan.

Colleges and Universities jacked-up the tuition and fee's to enrich themselves.

I think Congress needs to end the program, and recover money from the people who are profiting.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a viable option.; 4/23/19, 1:55 PM
n.n said...: "We the People of the United States" refers to the people offering affirmative consent (i.e. "citizen") to the social compact underlying the establishment of the United States. And "our Posterity" refers to the children conceived by "the People". Other people and their children are subject to and governed by statutes passed by legislators.; 4/23/19, 2:00 PM
Jim Gust said...: mockturtle, as you enjoyed The Lives of Others, may I recommend The Other Dream Team, if you can find it. It's the true story of the Lithuanian basketball team playing for the USSR in 1992 summer Olympics. A documentary, and a powerful revelation of how the Commies kept a grip on the captive nations, until they lost it.; 4/23/19, 2:01 PM
Fen said...: Another good one

highlights

00:17 Turk: The idea of Donald Trump beating Hillary is the worst possible feeling

00:28 Anna virtue signals her fantasy of shutting down two racists that never existed

15:00 Anna breaks, has no respect for women who voted Trump, thinks they are dumb; 4/23/19, 2:02 PM
n.n said...: Subprime Mortgage Loans were sold to America's underbelly

It was not limited to Subprime mortgages, but included excessive leverage across the board. Case in point: the late 90s dot com-triggered stock market reset. However, it does seem the foundation and trigger was set with the former and progressed with the latter.

Colleges and Universities jacked-up the tuition and fee's to enrich themselves.

They justify their pricing on a forward-looking basis, and remain viable or "legal" with government backing. Then the excessive expense is passed on through a "shared responsibility" scheme.; 4/23/19, 2:10 PM
Roughcoat said...: Mockturtle: "Dancer" was my introduction to Bardem. As a result I've always thought of him as a good guy, and his portrayal of villains (e.g., "No Country," "Collateral") as departures from the norm. In dancer he's an extremely sympathetic character, a "regular guy" type battling extraordinarily evil communist insurgents on one side, and a corrupt government bureaucracy on the other. The Shining Path guerillas and their leader are scary-fanatical, remorseless killers, the more so scary because they're all middle class university students and academics (as in real life). And Bardem's character falls in love, much against his will and intent, with a beautiful "dancer," so there's that too. Very touching. Superbly written script, superbly acted; better than the novel on which it was based, and the novel is pretty damn good. Kudos to Malkovich, and avowed conservative like his pal and fellow Steppenwolf alum, Gary Sinese.; 4/23/19, 2:11 PM
Etienne said...: Bottom line, you could put 2000 questions on the Census, and it doesn't matter.

The Census has been used for demographics study for decades. These demographics questions are merely for statistics.

For 1940 Census asked where they immigrated from. It asked what language they spoke.

It's fascinating to look at today. It makes Ancestry searching fun.

If they left all that out, they still would have come-up with the same count.

People need to take their Milk of Magnesia!; 4/23/19, 2:12 PM
mockturtle said...: Jim Gust: Thank you. I'll add it to my list.; 4/23/19, 2:17 PM
Etienne said...: narayanan what you are looking for is in the 14th Amendment.

It says male citizens 21 and over will be counted to determine representation.

Later Amended to include women, and the 18 year olds.

But the Census is a vehicle for gathering statistics that can be used to improve communities.; 4/23/19, 2:22 PM
Etienne said...: Ack! "emigrated from" not "immigrated from"... I sound like a foreigner...; 4/23/19, 2:24 PM
Sheridan said...: I've often wondered how newly elected (not re-elected) Congress people, both in the House and the Senate start down the corruption road and learn to pad their government salaries by millions of dollars. Does the congressional leadership pick them out? The donors? The special interests? And during that journey, when do those newly elected political newbies become aware that they've sold their integrity and made themselves open to continuing extortion by more experienced grifters? Do new members of Congress come into the job corrupt (else they would never have been selected by the Parties to stand for election) or does that happen only in D.C.?

https://www.quora.com/How-do-Congressmen-make-money-other-than-their-public-salaries; 4/23/19, 2:25 PM
Etienne said...: I got a bunch of apple pie crumbs in my keyboard. So now it looks like I have letters missing all the time.

I guess I need to go find the vacuum...

mmmph.. mmmph...; 4/23/19, 2:26 PM
Roughcoat said...: Shining Path, of course, identified as a Maoist not a Marxist-Leninist movement, and its adherents considered Soviet Marxist-Leninist Communism weak, decadent, and hopelessly compromised. They were ideological and spiritual fellow travelers with Khmerist (as in, Khmer Rouge) Communism, and they referred to themselves as Communism's "Third Wave." The "Dancer" movie lays bare how the most cruel and fanatical movements of the left -- Maoism, Shining Path, Khmer Communism, the French Revolution, Bolshevism -- are ever and always the creations of middle class malcontents,academics, and intellectuals -- the self-styled "vanguard" of revolutionary change.; 4/23/19, 2:28 PM
Etienne said...: When I got out of the Air Force, I had a 707 type certificate.

As I explored employment it turned out I would have to be re-certified into something else, as no one flew 707's anymore. I wasn't going to save the airlines any money in that regard.

That's the thing, Airlines don't want to have 737-max pilots and 737-ng pilots. If at all possible, they want 737 pilots able to fly both.

Boeing fixed the plane so that could happen. Where they screwed-up was the MCAS was a true abortion. People died from that. Boeing will pay dearly for that mistake.

Anything that can put-in full nose-down trim, is a death trap. Boeing is fixing it, so no more nose-down trim is more than they can pull out using the yoke.

If I was an airline, I'd be ordering Airbus pronto. The Airbus cockpit is type-certified across a wide range of aircraft.; 4/23/19, 2:41 PM
rehajm said...: Apple iPieCrumbs; 4/23/19, 2:46 PM
Milwaukie guy said...: I don't think it's right for some states to gain congressional districts simply because they host an outsized number of foreign nationals, for instance, like Mexican [and other Central Americans] in California. Those people are uninvited guests. Their nationality has not changed, just their residence.

VI Lenin admired the U.S. Census, regularly acquiring statistics about the state of the nation. It allowed planning. I believe about the time I was born, 1951, around a third of domiciles in the U.S. did not have indoor plumbing. Where would we be without the census?

22 million. That's another population number. It is the number of persons working for the government at the federal, state and local levels. Not to mention those whose companies or NGOs are dependent on government contracts. Government is the biggest industry in the U.S. and it's a vertical monopoly. And at the Federal level, 85% to 95% of the workers political donations go to the Democrat Party.

Don't extend the vote to 16 year-olds or serving felons. What? AYFKM? I gotta come over der and knock yer heads together?; 4/23/19, 2:49 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: “7. Raising Potential Russia Violations about Trump Not Applied to Clinton”

They had a problem. A big problem. Either the Russians had interfered in the election by passing intelligence onto Steele, who was an agent of the Crooked Hillary campaign, or they got their dirt on Trump, etc, elsewhere and that very strongly implies illegal FISA 702 database searches by contractors (probably including Fusion GPS), and the results of those illegal 702 (US PERS) searches were laundered through Steele, because the FISC needed better, more legitimate, sourcing for intel supporting Title I FISA warrants. It turns out that it was even harder, since it had to come through official IC hannels, and that appearantly meant MI6. Following that rabbit hole though would ultimately embarrass DNI Clapper and esp CIA Dir Brennan for their roles in the international aspects of the scheme. Either the Clinton campaign was collaborating with Russian intelligence against her political rivals, or the civilian intelligence Deep State, along with the Obama White House, were using our nation’s intelligence assets to spy on and attempt to discredit their political enemies. Or both, but I still suspect the latter.

The easy thing would have been to just drop a dime on Crooked Hillary for conspiring with the Russians. But the prosecutors they picked were probably more Clinton people than Obama people. Notably, they were led by Andrew Weissman, who had apparently been in the crowd of Clinton intimates who were waiting on election night to see her claim victory, in person. And at least one of the other prosecutors had represented the Clinton foundation/slush fund. So embarrassing Crooked Hillary wasn’t going to happen. But Mueller himself is a long term civilian IC Deep State player. Moreover, we found out a day or two ago, that Peter Strzok, who moved over to the Mueller investigation, to supervise the 40 FBI agents there, only to be removed after his compromising text messages were exposed, continued to oversee the 40 FBI agents there, from his office back at FBI HQ. The same Peter Strzok who had been hand picked by DNI Clapper to lead the FBI portion of the investigation of the DNC emails that ended up on Wikileaks. Turns out the IC consensus that the Russians hacked the DNC server was a joint conclusion of Strzok and someone picked by CIA Dir Brennan. Think about that for a minute - the same guy who was overseeing the FBI agents working to determine whether the Russians had hacked the DNC server was the same guy who lead the FBI investigation as to who had hacked that server in the first place (and, of course, been in charge of whitewashing Clinton’s illegal use of her private email server, starting the counterintelligence investigation into Trump and his campaign, ignoring Clinton’s emails found on Weiner’s laptop, worked with. Steele and Simpson through AAG Bruce Ohr, and helped set the perjury trap for Trump NSA Flynn). So, exposing corruption in the civilian IC was also off the table (if for no other reason than Peter Strzok, overseeing the 40 FBI agents, covering up his many misdeeds).

And, yes, it stinks.; 4/23/19, 2:51 PM
Sheridan said...: Etienne - I was a WX Observer (E3) in the AF in the early 70's when AWS still had manned WX towers. McConnell had shipped their TAC wing (Thuds)to George but kept their tankers and of course the Titan II's. Those tankers made quite a scene (noise and exhaust) especially at night. Wondering if you ever visited McConnell.; 4/23/19, 2:51 PM
Michael K said...: I've been looking at some old census forms on Ancestry lately, and it's amazing some of the questions that were asked in the early 1900's.

The 1874 Canadian census included how many carrots he (My great grandfather) grew and how many horses he had.; 4/23/19, 2:54 PM
narciso said...: it's all a house of mirrors

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/4/how-russian-collusion-myth-was-hatched-team-hillar/; 4/23/19, 2:54 PM
narciso said...: at the time of writing, Nicholas Shakespeare had not interviewed ketin vidal, the fellow mentioned in the post piece, but he was aware of him,; 4/23/19, 2:58 PM
Michael K said...: So, exposing corruption in the civilian IC was also off the table (if for no other reason than Peter Strzok, overseeing the 40 FBI agents, covering up his many misdeeds).

We are not completely out of Civil War territory yet. They also redacted the fact that the Russians had recordings of Bill Clinton and Monica before the scandal hit.

According to the report, Center for the National Interest President Dimitri Simes sent Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner a 2016 email with recommended talking points to counter Hillary Clinton’s Russia attacks. The email referenced “a well-documented story of highly questionable connections” between Bill Clinton and Russia.

At a meeting in New York, Simes told Kushner the details: Russia allegedly recorded President Clinton on the phone with Lewinsky, opening questions of foreign leverage over the ex-president-turned-potential first spouse.

I wonder why those Hillary donors would redact that fact ? Maybe Bill was blackmailed ?; 4/23/19, 3:02 PM
DougWeber said...: Sorry, it seems I did not make my point well enough.

Imagine, there are a few hundred thousand illegal immigrants. What is the effect on the next ten years if

1. You put them all in Wyoming
2. You put them all in California.

Could you give Wyoming a second House seat if you could get enough illegal immigrants into Cheyanne? If they are all in LA, what does that do to California's House representation?; 4/23/19, 3:14 PM
Etienne said...: Sheridan said...Those tankers made quite a scene (noise and exhaust) especially at night.

I flew E-3 so we had a real 707 (wide-body 320B) with fan jets. The tankers of course came before and were turbojets (initially). Black smoke, water injection! yee-haw. None of the parts were interchangeable.

They used to take-off at Riyadh just before prayer-call every morning. Our hotel was about 3 miles away, but we could hear them power-up while still on the runway.

Then they always stayed roof-level all the way through downtown! What a roar.

Wondering if you ever visited McConnell.

Oh yes, many times. McConnell was one of our dispersal bases for tornadoes. We would launch out of Tinker. Fly up to McConnell land and wait, and then take-off again after the tornado alert went farther north-east, and then fly back to Tinker via Altus. Altus was our other divert, but we always combined touch-n-go's and navigation practice on those flights.

Our old shuttle plane tail 3118 is on a stick there I think. We used 3118 (First production plane I think, and all polished back then) to shuttle parts to Europe and Saudi. Also used to ferry fighters across the pond with radio communications (HF mostly).; 4/23/19, 3:22 PM
rcocean said...: The Mueller Report has come out the WALLS ARE CLOSING IN on Trump!

/s/ EVERY NEVER-TRUMPER; 4/23/19, 3:26 PM
Lincolntf said...: Yes, GoSpace, I agree that most of these programs don't produce much in the way of results. I do think the Foundation means well, but it's hard to really buy into the Mission. Anyway, it's done and submitted now. I did a totally straight V.O., just giving the relevant information and a tiny bit of mission statement. It should meet the requirements of the assignment.; 4/23/19, 3:28 PM
Sheridan said...: Thanks for the memories, Etienne!; 4/23/19, 3:29 PM
Michael K said...: New aspect of the Mueller/Deep State thing

These paragraphs tell us a great deal about what originated the purpose of the FBI investigation and the continued purpose of the special counsel. Remember, the special counsel was a continuance of the FBI counterintelligence operation which officially began on July 31st, 2016. [The unofficial beginning was much earlier]

Understanding now that Mueller is saying from Day One he was investigating the Steele Dossier; here’s where we all need to question the assumptions.

Why is the Steele Dossier so important?

From the beginning most people have thought the Fusion-GPS objective was to dig up dirt on Trump for political exploitation. However, with all the recent information outlined there’s actually a more significant role for Fusion.

The overall intelligence apparatus of the U.S. government was already conducting political surveillance on their political opposition. The systems of the intelligence apparatus such as FISA-702(16)(17) databases searches were being exploited months (if not years) beforehand.

When NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers discovered the use of the database he shut down contractor access on April 18th, 2016.

Much is becoming clear.; 4/23/19, 3:34 PM
Hagar said...: Airbus has its own problems; for American carriers there really is no option to Boeing and, anyway, there are already too many 737 Max 8's out there.
I think they will all be re-fitted with a big red kill-switch for the MCAS, and all Max 8 pilots will have to sign a certificate they know what that switch is for.

I am concerned about the reports of miscellaneous tools and junk being left around in the empty spaces of the airframes during manufacture. That speaks of poor morale among the workers.; 4/23/19, 3:35 PM
FullMoon said...: Yeah, if only. Worse thing that happens to these criminals is they get fired, collect a nice pension, are heroes to the left, get laundered book or go fund me money.

Would be great to see some do actual prison time.

People are going to get indicted. A lot of them.

Someone is going to point their finger at Obama in a plea agreement. Hopefully Flake and all the people that worked for McCain get swept up too. I wouldn't mind it if the "war hero" was posthumously identified for his conspiracy with foreign agents to remove a sitting president.

They all literally conspired with Steele, a foreign agent, to spread an obvious lie and get a warrant to spy on Trump with the eventual goal of removing him from office.

We have a long way to go.

It is time for consequences. Traitors hang.

4/23/19, 11:53 AM; 4/23/19, 3:37 PM
Fernandinande said...: "[Warren's] $1.25 trillion proposal received praise by progressive groups for its ambition and its explicit focus on racial equity[racism]."

"Warren’s proposal would take other steps to address racial disparities in higher ed, including the creation of a $50 billion fund to support historically black colleges and minority-serving institutions."; 4/23/19, 3:50 PM
narciso said...: Yes that's likely:
https://onenewsnow.com/national-security/2019/04/20/dem-sen-rejects-partys-border-cuts-urges-more-security; 4/23/19, 3:59 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: Regarding Michael K's link above to Conservative TreeHouse article:

1. Part 1: Lotta general spying done by Obama intelligence service via NSA Database by private contractors, including Fusion/GPS, until April 2016.

2. Part 2: Clinton campaign hires Fusion/GPS to create Steele Dossier (Oct 2016) to capture fruits of prior spying to hopefully sink Trump, if necessary. Miserable failure.

3. Part 3: Morph 1 and 2 into Mueller Special Counsel snipe hunt to hopefully sink Trump. Miserable failure again.; 4/23/19, 4:05 PM
Hagar said...: and much more difficult to fix after it has been allowed to take hold and fester.; 4/23/19, 4:13 PM
FullMoon said...: Kinda surprised that Althouse and Meade took Inga with them to Washington to visit Laslo.; 4/23/19, 4:14 PM
Maillard Reactionary said...: Original Mike @12:38 PM: Some reservation websites, perhaps those of the airlines, have or had a field that showed what "equipment" was scheduled for that flight.

If they have not eliminated that field entirely, my guess is they will obfuscate the exact version of the aircraft, to protect the guilty.

After that it's doorframe ID plate or nothing.

I'm making a real effort to catch up on my cynicism, honest.

I hope some day to go back to Acadia NP to photograph there again. It's 350 odd miles from here, but being retired, I'm really not in a hurry. I think I'll load up the CD player with the Shostakovitch quartets and just drive.; 4/23/19, 4:18 PM
mockturtle said...: Doug Weber comments: Sorry, it seems I did not make my point well enough.

Imagine, there are a few hundred thousand illegal immigrants. What is the effect on the next ten years if

1. You put them all in Wyoming
2. You put them all in California.

Could you give Wyoming a second House seat if you could get enough illegal immigrants into Cheyanne? If they are all in LA, what does that do to California's House representation?

Well, Doug, here's the way I see it: California is a sanctuary state. It has a multitude of sanctuary cities. Wyoming, God be praised, is not a sanctuary state nor does it have even one sanctuary city.; 4/23/19, 4:28 PM
effinayright said...: The citizenship question was asked in at least one census I've seen.

I think it was in 1910.

Lots of immigration going on at that time...; 4/23/19, 4:28 PM
StephenFearby said...: Michael K quoted (linking to the CTH article):

"...From the beginning most people have thought the Fusion-GPS objective was to dig up dirt on Trump for political exploitation. However, with all the recent information outlined there’s actually a more significant role for Fusion.

The overall intelligence apparatus of the U.S. government was already conducting political surveillance on their political opposition. The systems of the intelligence apparatus such as FISA-702(16)(17) databases searches were being exploited months (if not years) beforehand."

According to Wikipedia, the FISA court rejected 34 DOJ/FBI FISA warrant requests in both 2016 and 2017. The 2-year total (68) compares to ONLY 17 REJECTIONS in the 37 YEARS BETWEEN 1979 AND 2015! Exactly what was going on (wink, wink)?

The huge discrepancy requires a serious explanation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court

Perhaps IG Michael Horowitz's investigation has also noticed this material discrepancy and will provide the explanation.; 4/23/19, 4:29 PM
traditionalguy said...: The insane cover story that Trump was an agent for Putin had a long run on the Media.

Now we get down to seeing what it was a cover-up for. The Clinton business of running a hackable Server loaded with classified USA government secrets was not an accidental oversight. It was the way that Obama and Hillary set it up to feed spy data to their paying cash customers in enemy countries.

Their intentional espionage for cash going on over years makes Benedict Arnold's deadly spur of the moment sellout of Washington's Army holding Fort West Point , where Arnold was our Commanding General,look like a silly amateur spy.; 4/23/19, 4:44 PM
rhhardin said...: Don't worry about the 737 MAX. Everybody knows what to do now.

The crashes were from being confused and experimenting.; 4/23/19, 4:59 PM
effinayright said...: Yancey Ward said...
Phidippus,

One of the stories I saw indicated that the new jet's engines had to be mounted further forward because the plane's wings were too close to the ground when not airborne, unlike the new A320 with the same new, more efficient engines. I wondered why Boeing didn't just raise the landing gear rather than change the engine mounting configuration- that made more sense to me, but then I am not an aviation engineer.
*****************

I suspect the stresses on the lengthened gear would be much higher, requiring a much more robust, thus heavier, gear system. When you see puffs of smoke as the wheels touch the runway there's got to be huge torque forces, and something's got to be strong enough to oppose them and keep that gear intact.

As an analogy: the odd compartments underneath the rear edges of wings on today's big jets hide the heavy jackscrews that extend and raise the flaps. It takes a lot of force to hold/change those extended flaps' positions as the air rushes across them.

(just a layman's observation, though I do spend quite a bit of time "flying" a Cessna 172 on FSX); 4/23/19, 5:03 PM
rcocean said...: Don't worry about the 737 MAX. Everybody knows what to do now.

Yes, don't get on a 737 MAX.; 4/23/19, 5:05 PM
effinayright said...: rhhardin said...
Don't worry about the 737 MAX. Everybody knows what to do now.

The crashes were from being confused and experimenting
*****************************

Utter, total and moronic vapidity.

Go read the articles on this.

It's very likely that Boeing won't be able to sell the MAX to anyone. It's gonna cost them billions upon billions before that plane ever flies again.

And it's very likely that plane will have to undergo extensive re-design before it passes FAA certification.; 4/23/19, 5:09 PM
mockturtle said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/23/19, 5:10 PM
narciso said...: wasn't it a software problem, primarily

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/440105-trump-moves-to-crack-down-on-visa-overstays; 4/23/19, 5:16 PM
Michael K said...: I suspect the stresses on the lengthened gear would be much higher, requiring a much more robust, thus heavier, gear system.

I think the argument is that longer gear would not fit in the present wing box. It would require redesign of the wing, a very expensive revision. Or so I have read.; 4/23/19, 5:16 PM
rhhardin said...: The MAX's problem is bad karma and political vultures. Its actual problem was bad human factors design, and too few independent ways to sense angle of attack.

Not expensive to fix, except for the political vultures.; 4/23/19, 5:21 PM
Nichevo said...: It's appalling. I hope the sharks take Boeing to the cleaners. More importantly, I hope regulators never let that plane fly again. Do the right thing and design a proper plane.

4/23/19, 12:21 PM

It's not an airplane problem, it's a Third World pilots problem.; 4/23/19, 5:29 PM
JackWayne said...: Etienne, reread the 14th amendment. It doesn’t say what you say it says. In any event, Congress is in charge of deciding apportionment and they go with People. The census may be allowed to ask the question but it will have nothing to do with apportionment. That will be decided by a lawsuit. TSCOTUS knows their job is to legislate for Congress so they will likely shortcut the process and leave it at people.

n.n., if you think about the beginning of the Constitution, all People were citizens of their State, not citizens of the USA. Another stupid oversight error from Madison. So the Constitution is very vague on a lot of stuff including no recognition that People and Citizens are 2 different terms.; 4/23/19, 5:30 PM
Lawrence Person said...: Yesterday's Democratic Presidential Clown Car Update, in case you missed it.; 4/23/19, 5:31 PM
walter said...: Damn that karma.
This Is all a womens' soap opera reaction.; 4/23/19, 5:32 PM
narciso said...: would you trust this guy within a parsec,

https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/23/twitter-jack-dorsey-trump/; 4/23/19, 5:39 PM
narciso said...: https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1117900/brexit-news-theresa-may-conservative-party-eu-deal-Sir-Edward-Leigh-1922-committee-john-be; 4/23/19, 5:46 PM
narciso said...: just an example, how they got their act across the pond together,; 4/23/19, 5:47 PM
bagoh20 said...: "The citizenship question was asked in at least one census I've seen.

I think it was in 1910"

Amazing! What is your secret? Please don't say exercise and clean living.; 4/23/19, 6:01 PM
mockturtle said...: https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1117900/brexit-news-theresa-may-conservative-party-eu-deal-Sir-Edward-Leigh-1922-committee-john-be

So, narciso, will Farage lead a new 'Brexit' party? Can it work?; 4/23/19, 6:02 PM
Maillard Reactionary said...: rhhardin said: "Don't worry about the 737 MAX. Everybody knows what to do now."

You first, kemosabe.

You have worked in the tech industry, right? And worked with software engineers?

Dude, the airplane has to be safe even if the systems fail, and the pilots aren't perfect that day. Your nonchalance is entirely appropriate if you are flying solo, and the only lives at stake are your own, and whatever poor slob is at ground zero when your own luck runs out.

Like rcocean said, don't fly the fucking plane. We don't need it. Burn the gas and use safer planes. What's more important, the manufacturer's and airlines' profit margins, or human lives?

Imagine if you were flying with your dog in the seat next to you. Do you get it now?

Ye gods.; 4/23/19, 6:03 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Let me too recommend the CTH article “The Obama Use of FISA-702 as a Domestic Political Surveillance Program….” that Dr K called out above. Yes, it is a hypothesis, but built on a lot of underlying facts, many of which are yet another unexplained, including that 85% of between 1,000 and 9,999 (based on size of redaction) instances of FISA 702(16)(17) database searching, over a six month period from late 2015 through April 2016, was by FBI contractors who were not doing the minimizationbrequired by law. They were doing keyword “To”, “From”, and most worriedly “About” searching, on the NSA FISA database and dealing with the raw intelligence results. The FBI was caught with its pants down by NSA Dir Rogers in April of 2016, and everything else since then is a coverup, including the Mueller investigation.

One interesting fact that was pointed out was that the FBI was caught in 2012 requesting and receiving diskettes containing thousands of nonprofit tax applications. CTH didn’t mention this but I suspect that this was tied closely to what Lois Lerner was doing. Inany case guess who was in charge of the FBI at the time? Yes, the same Bob Mueller who would go on to be named Special Council in order to protect his FBI from its gross violation of FISA 702 in the unsupervised access that it had provided contractors to NSA FISA databases.

Finally note that the most logical explanation for the Steele Dossier having the wrong Michael Cohen traveling to Prague is that someone, very possibly someone like Nelly Ohr, at Fusion GPS, had done a 702(17) “about” search for Trump’s attorney, Michael Cohen, and found Customs information about a Michael Cohen traveling to Prague at about the suspect time, and that information was laundered through Steele as if it came from the Russians. Note that this is precisely the sort of information (who was supposedly in and out of the country) that the FBI didn’t have prior to 9/11/01, that would probably been helpful in tracking down the 9/11 terrorist hijackers, so was probably some of the first information added to the new FISA Title VII database. If someone had searched using the Customs database, either another key would have been required, or a disambiguous key such as passport number would have been required. And the Russians would have known that it was the wrong Michael Cohen.; 4/23/19, 6:03 PM
narciso said...: is it large enough to accommodate a majority that isn't clear, just like the Canadian (social credit-reform party, wasn't large enough with stockwell day, in 1995?; 4/23/19, 6:14 PM
n.n said...: So the Constitution is very vague on a lot of stuff including no recognition that People and Citizens are 2 different terms.

Logically, they are one and the same, because the former and latter offer affirmative consent to the social compact and establishment of the United States.; 4/23/19, 6:21 PM
narciso said...: so when you've lost cher, in your jaunt to insanity,; 4/23/19, 6:22 PM
Narayanan said...: So the Constitution is very vague on a lot of stuff !!??

Vagueness can be imputed in order to pervert into pernicious end.

I Recall mention of Obama thesis on Curvature of Constitutional Space - which led Larry Tribe to call him genius.

Has anyone read it?; 4/23/19, 6:34 PM
Roughcoat said...: if you think about the beginning of the Constitution, all People were citizens of their State, not citizens of the USA.

But doesn't the nation "own" the states? Which is why secession was illegal? Which is to say, we are the United States OF America, emphasis on "of." The Union is inviolate and supreme. The union is not voluntary. The states do have rights, but their rights are limited and do not include the right to leave the Union (i.e, the nation). We are the United States not the States United -- a distinction with a very big difference.; 4/23/19, 6:37 PM
Michael K said...: The IRS was the other agency weaponized by Obama. Rogers and Nunes are the heroes,. I hope they eventually get rewarded.

So far this fiasco looks like the Dreyfus case.; 4/23/19, 6:38 PM
Roughcoat said...: n.n. @6:21 is correct.; 4/23/19, 6:38 PM
Chris Lopes said...: "said...
The MAX's problem is bad karma and political vultures. Its actual problem was bad human factors design, and too few independent ways to sense angle of attack.

Not expensive to fix, except for the political vultures."

Actually, they put much bigger engines on it than the airframe was designed for. To avoid ground clearance issues the put those engines forward of the wings. That changed the aerodynamics of the plane and made it less stable to fly. The software was supposed to compensate for that instability. What they really need to do is redesign the plane to accommodate those engines. That will not be cheap; 4/23/19, 6:39 PM
Roughcoat said...: So far this fiasco looks like the Dreyfus case.

Does that we mean we can send Hillary, Comey, Brennan et al. to Devil's Island?

Or have them shot at dawn by firing squad at Vincennes?; 4/23/19, 6:43 PM
tcrosse said...: Inspired by Thelma and Louise, Althouse and Inga have left Meade at the motel and taken off for points west in Inga's 1969 Pontiac convertible. Consider then armed and dangerous.; 4/23/19, 6:48 PM
wildswan said...: Bruce Hayden said...
Let me too recommend the CTH article “The Obama Use of FISA-702 as a Domestic Political Surveillance Program….”

This is a really interesting article. Very enlightening
Then you could watch Lives of Others.
Then, suicide.

My approach would be to read “The Obama Use of FISA-702 as a Domestic Political Surveillance Program….” then watch the last hour of Election Night 2016, 1:30 to 2:30. Between 1:30 and 2:00 the media launches attacks on Trump supporters. No longer citizens with a message, Trump voters are deplorables with drool. At 2:00 Podesta announces that "they're still counting votes"; and sends everyone home. The Democrats go; the Republicans stay. At 2:15 the media announce that Trump is at the Hilton about "to speak" to his supporters waiting for his victory party. What will he say? The media haven't called any states for hours, Trump has 244 electoral votes according to the media, not 270; Hillary has not conceded. Is Trump about to claim the Presidency merely because he has won the election? How dare he!! And he comes out and does just that. "President-Elect Donald Trump". Hearing that Trump is about "to speak", Hillary concedes. The media start calling states for Trump, numbers spin like a juke box so that before Trump has finished the media have called all the remaining battleground states. So strange - they had not called any since 11:00 p.m., now they call them all. Trump gives a great speech reaching out to Hillary and her voters. At that moment as Trump reaches out to Hillary, Hillary, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, Strzuk are launching the Russia collusion plot against a President of the United States they don't want. The plot will boomerang back on them two years later, i.e., a week or two ago.

Some day the whole plot will be long running show but for now you have to learn to cut back and forth and weave the story together in your own mind. Because we live in interesting times.; 4/23/19, 6:52 PM
JackWayne said...: Roughcoat, Madison and Hamilton made it clear in the Federalist Papers that the sovereign States gave the new government the sovereignty needed to rule the People. But the Constitution itself does not acknowledge this. It’s one reason that the Originalist view of the Constitution is so stupid. The Living Document view is equally off in Humpty Dumpty land.

And, logically, please explain how People and Citizens are the same? Any half-assed lawyer could drive a Mack truck through that assertion.; 4/23/19, 6:59 PM
n.n said...: how People and Citizens are the same

How are they different?; 4/23/19, 7:18 PM
Etienne said...: JackWayne said... reread the 14th Amendment

People vs Citizens:

"Section 1. All persons (people) born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof (which excludes foreign diplomats and foreign troops, and their families), are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

For example, a State can't give anyone citizenship. There is no such thing as a state citizen, only a U.S. Citizen.

Section 2 was very controversial and the way Congress wrote the implementing clause is:

2 U.S. Code § 6. Reduction of representation

"Should any State deny or abridge the right of any of the male inhabitants thereof, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States,"

Section 2 limits citizens to males:

"male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States"

The "male only" was changed by the 19th Amendment, and the age was changed to 18 by the 26th Amendment.

We are only talking about Federal Elections and Federal Census here.; 4/23/19, 7:19 PM
JackWayne said...: The torpedoes are nosing in Obama’s direction.; 4/23/19, 7:22 PM
Etienne said...: n.n said...How are they different?

People (in the Constitution and Amendments) can be either citizens or not.

Those that are citizens can vote in Federal elections, and be represented in Congress by some agreed-upon population count.; 4/23/19, 7:24 PM
JackWayne said...: Exactly, there is a difference between People and Citizens. But the half-assed Congress did not change the Census clause so the meaning is ambiguously left open.; 4/23/19, 7:25 PM
narciso said...: This thread shows all the inconsistencies in the narrative:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1120487526370824196?ref_src=; 4/23/19, 7:26 PM
etbass said...: I keep hearing that the axe is going to fall on the deep staters behind the Russian hoax. I sincerely hope so for the good of our republic. But I haven't seen any arrests, or where a special prosecutor has been appointed, a grand jury has been convened or anything other than the IG's eternal investigation that has been running as long as Mueller's investigation, but still without any results.

Somebody help me. What signs are there of the axe falling?; 4/23/19, 7:28 PM
Etienne said...: I believe it is correct to say: Non-Citizens can not vote in Federal elections, and they do not count in Federal Censuses.

However, Non-Citizens can participate in all other areas of the census. Areas such as demographics, and wealth, and property ownership, etc.

Because these things are all related to proportion of the revenue distributed by the federal government to the states.

These non-citizens in many states can own land, get licenses, and even vote or run for Mayor. States rights prevails.; 4/23/19, 7:33 PM
narciso said...: Reasonable inferences from barrs statements as well as Horowitz reports.; 4/23/19, 7:34 PM
JackWayne said...: In fact, just to show how incompetent our elites are, notice in the 14th, S3: “Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.”

So when later, they added women voters, they didn’t come back and clean up this language. As it stands, it’s possible that women who are denied representation do not have any recourse like Men do. We are ruled by incompetents.; 4/23/19, 7:36 PM
JackWayne said...: So you are admitting that TSCOTUS has the latitude to decide this issue any way they want? What’s your bet?; 4/23/19, 7:38 PM
Hagar said...: But doesn't the nation "own" the states?

Language again. The 13 original states were sovereign, but all added since were admitted with conditions attached so that they are subject to the Constitution in ways the original 13 are not.
Except that I doubt anyone today is going to argue for that distinction.; 4/23/19, 7:53 PM
Hagar said...: And then there was Texas which still thinks it can secede if it wants to.; 4/23/19, 7:54 PM
rhhardin said...: As I dimly recall, the 727 had three or four crashes in quick succession and travel agents were avoiding them. It was something about the 4th notch of flaps having so much drag that even full power couldn't arrest the descent under some conditions. They just made it physically impossible to use the 4th notch of flaps and everything was fine.; 4/23/19, 7:57 PM
Kathryn51 said...: So, if the whereabouts of Althouse and Meade were noted somewhere else, I apologize but I just gotta say I hope they didn't decide to visit Seattle (a city that Althouse once named as a possible landing site) this week because it has been almost non-stop rain.; 4/23/19, 8:10 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Reminder: The Russia Collusion Hoax Was Hatched By Hillary Clinton and Her Aides Just Hours After Her Loss, and Fed to a Supportive Media to Explain Away Her Failure -- and Theirs; 4/23/19, 8:13 PM
Phil 314 said...: Chuck has become quite the troll. He only made one incendiary comment and left and look at all of the heat (and little light) he generated. Well done Sir.

Hopefully this is the beginning of a briefer and less frequent Chuck.; 4/23/19, 8:13 PM
Roughcoat said...: I'll say it again. Secession by any state was regarded as unlawful and a great civil war was fought to preserve the union and uphold the concept of the illegitimacy of secession. Clearly that means that the union -- i.e., the nation of the United States and not the states united -- was superior to the individual states: that the states were part of the nation -- were the property, if you will, of the nation -- and that they had no right to separate themselves from the nation: that they did not belong to themselves, but to the nation.; 4/23/19, 8:20 PM
Big Mike said...: Regarding the 737 MAX, the problem is a bit more complicated than just lengthening the landing gear struts. If you look at a picture of the 737 in flight (lots of them on the Internet) you see that (1) there are no doors over the wheels themselves -- the wheels fit flush against the surface of the fuselage, and there is no room for longer struts because the wheels, when retracted, are already pretty close together. So to get taller landing gear struts they needed to move the position of the landing further outboard of the fuselage, which means moving the engine pylons even further outboard (unless you feel like cooking the struts and wheels with engine exhaust) and pretty soon you're redesigning the entire wing. And that's before you lengthen the front landing gear which probably forces a redesign of that part of the fuselage too.; 4/23/19, 8:27 PM
Roughcoat said...: The whole point of replacing the Articles of Confederation and the decentralized system of government with the Constitution and a federal government was to give the federal government authority over the states. A nation organized along the principles of the Articles would have quickly devolved into a warlord-system of the sort that came to being in early 20th century China, and it would have suffered the same fate as China as a result. In fact that's exactly what happened in 1861: a collection of regional military powers (the Confederacy) collectively rebelling against federal authority to establish themselves as independent powers. Warring States indeed.; 4/23/19, 8:37 PM
Tank said...: I'll say it again. Secession by any state was regarded as unlawful

Well, if you had the bigger army you could regard it as you wished.; 4/23/19, 8:37 PM
Narayanan said...: It is, of course, possible to obstruct justice when guilty of no crime.

I don't get it.

Can someone provide actual instance? In a sane jurisprudential culture!

A hypothetical otherwise.
And legal framework that would allow it.; 4/23/19, 8:38 PM
Narayanan said...: Secession by any state was regarded as unlawful.

Could it be framed as Brexit of its time?; 4/23/19, 8:45 PM
Roughcoat said...: Well, if you had the bigger army you could regard it as you wished.

Sauce for the goose, Tank: at the start of the war the South's armed forces were bigger and better than those of the Union. Hence they thought they could resolve the issue in their favor by force of arms and thereby preserve their peculiar institution of chattel slavery and racial apartheid well into the future. They thought might would make right. And they correct in that belief. But it didn't turn out quite the way they thought.; 4/23/19, 8:45 PM
Roughcoat said...: Could it be framed as Brexit of its time?

No.; 4/23/19, 8:45 PM
gilbar said...: The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union was an agreement among the 13 original states of the United States of America that served as its first constitution. It was updated by the present Constitution, but that did NOT change the basic part:
Perpetual Union
or, as my Great-Great-Grandfathers called it: Union Forever; 4/23/19, 8:53 PM
livermoron said...: Texas doesn't believe it has the right to secede. It rightly believes that the T's&C's of their attaining statehood allows them to divide Texas into five separate states, all belonging to the union, should Texans so desire.

The Articles of Confederation stipulated the union is perpetual. In fact, the formal name of the document is The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union. That the US Constitution was written to make the Union 'more perfect' leads one to infer that no state may secede.; 4/23/19, 8:55 PM
livermoron said...: gilbar - great minds.....; 4/23/19, 9:01 PM
cubanbob said...: JackWayne we don't count foreign tourists as residents and they are here legally. It doesn't take a lot of convoluted logic to lead to the conclusion that those who have no legal right to be here do not count for apportionment purposes.; 4/23/19, 9:03 PM
Michael K said...: " They thought might would make right. And they correct in that belief. But it didn't turn out quite the way they thought."

"You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing!

You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it ...

Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth -- right at your doors.

You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail."

- William T. Sherman, letter to a Southern friend at the outset of the war; 4/23/19, 9:03 PM