Althouse: "The more conservative students receive greater opportunities — opportunities to consider more ideas, because they know what they hear/read plus what’s in their heads!"

February 21, 2019

"The more conservative students receive greater opportunities — opportunities to consider more ideas, because they know what they hear/read plus what’s in their heads!"

"After graduation, who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?"

Writes my son John (on his blog), commenting on a WSJ collection of essays about whether there's a free-speech crisis on college campuses.

75 comments:

Lewis Wetzel said...: I suppose it depends on what you mean by "opportunities." You don't want to end up considering people "privileged" for the opportunity to suffer career setbacks.
A conservative student, if he is honest about what he believes, has little opportunity to advance in academia, and Lefties seem to consider these the very best jobs.; 2/21/19, 12:02 PM
Achilles said...: The purveyor of bias is unaware of their bias. This is the nature of bias.

This covers half of the college campus free speech issue. The half that includes the Althouse clan.; 2/21/19, 12:04 PM
Seeing Red said...: Or deep state political jobs, or newspaper jobs, or science jobs...; 2/21/19, 12:04 PM
Lucid-Ideas said...: #1 There isn't just a free-speech crisis on college campuses, there is a free-thought crisis as well. This is the result of a collegiate 'all out war' on fundamental critical thinking skills in favor or wrote dogma, indoctrination, and ability to replicate.

The most important 3-letter word in the English language is 'why'. Colleges have been meh-to-okay in doing the 'how' 'what' 'when' and 'where' but they have utterly failed in training young people to ask 'why'.

This will be felt overwhelming for decades to come as forthcoming generations grow-up in a world where they firmly believed they shall be 'cared for'. They have got a very very rude awakening coming.

#2 Today was a great day. Someone gay just wrote that conservative students (and by extension conservatives) are potentially more open-minded than liberals. Just checked out my office window. No pigs whistling through the air. Shocking.; 2/21/19, 12:06 PM
Anthony said...: Conservatives are far better debaters, generally. Liberals just scream names.; 2/21/19, 12:06 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: A point I've made many times. A Wal-Mart checker in Bumfuck, Oklahoma is regularly exposed to a greater diversity of ideological and cultural viewpoints than an attorney in Manhattan.; 2/21/19, 12:08 PM
Achilles said...: Try to get a grant for a research project after saying that Anthropomorphic Global Warming is a hoax.

John and Ann are just trying to excuse their bias and cowardice.

You don’t care about conservatives or deplorables at all. This comment is the definition of virtue signaling.

He is literally saying that because we have been abused and attacked and maligned by leftist racist shitheads we are better prepared.

Then we go and try to get jobs at companies staffed by people who do exactly the same thing.

No really this post is disgusting and you should all feel shame.; 2/21/19, 12:10 PM
Gahrie said...: After graduation, who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?

Which is precisely why the Left is attempting to destroy intellectual diversity.; 2/21/19, 12:13 PM
Achilles said...: “And you know who’s especially hurt by this? Liberals. “

No.

They get jobs and lifetime affirmation.

We get the privilege of our beliefs being challenged and strengthened and the joy of overcoming adversity.

Seriously fuck off.; 2/21/19, 12:13 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: "The more conservative students receive greater opportunities — opportunities to consider more ideas, because they know what they hear/read plus what’s in their heads!"
"After graduation, who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?"

It's a nice sentiment, and it's accurate, but it misses the more salient dynamic.

The salient dynamic is that the Left dominates the universities, and actively tries to suppress opposing and/or dissenting points of views.

As a reaction to that salient dynamic, conservatives have to learn to dance, maneuver, and get more creative to make it.

Young Cohen/Althouse hits an important mark (good on ya), but misses this bigger point.; 2/21/19, 12:15 PM
Michael said...: Conservative students have the advantage of their own beliefs assaulted daily in the academy. This results in thick skins and favorable debating techniques.; 2/21/19, 12:19 PM
Achilles said...: John and Ann are the real victims here.

They didn’t have any people who disagreed with them around!

Poor liberals.

But we see how Ann reacts when her little bubble gets pricked. She is just hiding from the fact that she and her son only want conservatives and libertarians around when they make them feel good. They don’t actually want those deplorables to speak or have any agency.; 2/21/19, 12:21 PM
gilbar said...: The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...
A point I've made many times. A Wal-Mart checker in Bumfuck, Oklahoma is regularly exposed to a greater diversity of ideological and cultural viewpoints than an attorney in Manhattan.

Remember! The reason why the Supreme Court said that affirmative action was 'okay' for colleges was that the general student body NEEDED to experience greater diversity.
This is why right wingers are shunned from colleges. Everyone needs to think (and say (and do)) the Exact Same Thing; and having right wing view points would limit that diversity: or something; 2/21/19, 12:23 PM
Seeing Red said...: We get the privilege of our beliefs being challenged and strengthened and the joy of overcoming adversity.

Very few people care who their plumbers voted for.; 2/21/19, 12:24 PM
FIDO said...: I reject the premise of the WSJ student quoted (yes, I went to your son's blog. Please don't think I am cheating or going 'down low')

He says 'only a few racist speakers' are protested. Um...how many Conservative speakers are there on campus? I would like to see the Venn diagram of his 'racist speaker' and any 'Right leaning speaker' and see the overlap, which I believe will be huge.

This child is coddled and unable to analyze anything. The loud voices tell him what to speak and he speaks that way.

Sad. Tell me again about the quality of college in one's life?

As I've said before, if you told a Lefty that one went to a Christian school, he would (perhaps correctly) sneer about being propagandized.

And yet if he goes to a Left Wing School (almost all of them) he does not see that all he is listening to is different Lefty 'Theologians' of different opinions of Progressivism.

He seems more indoctrinated since he doesn't realize that he is a creature in kind.

So I guess I agree with your son for slightly different reasons.; 2/21/19, 12:26 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: Very few people care who their plumbers voted for.

Tell it to Joe.; 2/21/19, 12:27 PM
Achilles said...: Bay Area Guy said...

Young Cohen/Althouse hits an important mark (good on ya), but misses this bigger point.

Oh for fucks sake.

This is virtue signaling at it's worst.

Neither John nor Ann give two shits about free speech on campus. They don't give two shits about the violent members of their political tribe.

They have no first principles. They still support leftists even when it results in exactly what anyone would predict.

They just want you to know that they feel bad about it.

Really bad.

And stuff.; 2/21/19, 12:27 PM
Seeing Red said...: Joe wasn’t the newsies’ plumber.; 2/21/19, 12:30 PM
Not Sure said...: So, conservative students should be grateful for their college's bias against them because it forces them to confront (and in many cases, regurgitate) arrant nonsense? I don't find this proposition persuasive.

What's actually the case is that only the most self-assured, intelligent, articulate, and well-educated conservatives manage to survive four years of indoctrination and obloquy by administrators, professors, and fellow students without capitulating. And the world they'll have to navigate as they get older will be populated by the same hectoring leftists who were the conservatives' college classmates.; 2/21/19, 12:32 PM
Jaq said...: The ironically named ‘liberals’ currently have the enlightenment in a choke hold. They have Google, they have the major networks, they control the award shows, name a recent Hollywood movie that wasn’t one more liberal morality play. Maybe Tyler Perry’s movies.; 2/21/19, 12:41 PM
Jaq said...: They control publishing, try and get a conservative novel through a traditional publisher nowadays. They control tenure... We are reduced to Samizdat sites like Quillette.; 2/21/19, 12:42 PM
n.n said...: Conservative privilege? I would recall Jew... White privilege, but they carried negative implications for the "privileged" class.

That said, what doesn't break you, may make you stronger.; 2/21/19, 12:50 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: @Achilles,

Young Cohen/Althouse hits an important mark (good on ya), but misses this bigger point.

Oh for fucks sake.

This is virtue signaling at it's worst.

Neither John nor Ann give two shits about free speech on campus. They don't give two shits about the violent members of their political tribe.

They have no first principles. They still support leftists even when it results in exactly what anyone would predict.

But tell us how you really feel, Achilles!

Outta curiosity, when did you serve? I served in the Reagan 80s, through Gulf War 1. I only ask, because I'm willing to bet that I'm older than you. With age comes patience, and a slightly different perspective.

So, No, I don't have the political piss and vinegar that you have. And, Yes, I do view the Left as the enemy.

But, I certainly don't hold Althouse and Cohen as part of the problem! I think that's a mistake on your part. Althouse, in my view, has been a heroic supporter of free speech, and it looks like it spread to her son, too.

No virtue signaling. My honest assessment.

Also, because I live/work/jive with the Left in the Bay Area, I get to see them first hand, so I do see their shortcomings, but also see some of their positive traits too.

In my view, we are in a "cultural cold war," not a hot war, not a civil war.

But I acknowledge I could be wrong. And I acknowledge, that if the shit ever hits the fan, ya want guys like Achilles on the wall.

Peace, brother.; 2/21/19, 12:52 PM
Rick said...: "After graduation, who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?"

Why would this be relevant? Left wing institutions are committed to eliminating intellectual diversity through employment [James Damore / Google, Kevin Williamson / The Atlantic, various economic boycotts] and public venue [Twitter, campuses] blacklisting. The left wants political activists to enforce these blacklists and campuses are delivering that by training future employees in how to react to wrongthinkers.; 2/21/19, 12:57 PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: It always amazes me how shallow lefty arguments are, so much so they devolve into name calling when engaged on ideas. The only place rote memorization has left in modern scholarship is the daily indoctrination of students by their marxist teachers, but the process sells them short. After all, the monolithic culture of the media-entertainment-political elites is roadcast everywhere all the time. We ALL know the lefty talking points about racism and the rich and the failures of capitalism. We've heard that crap all our lives.

But the real-world experience and arguments elude these shallow lefties. Conservatives (and some lucky liberals) learn the constitution, read the Federalist Papers, understand taxes as disincentive, dissect the decades-long boom Reagan ignited with tax cuts, observe the constant 25% of GDP that taxes generate in revenues regardless of what marginal rates change here or there, and understand that humans are flawed creatures prone to lying and greedy behavior (but also understand redemption and forgiveness). So we know how the real world works and we know all the pie-in-the-sky schemes of progressives, Democrats, liberals and commies. We know what they think and say and we know what Conservatives think and say.

Our knowledge of both sides of the coin serve us well. People blinded by self-righteousness and living in liberal bubbles (politics, entertainment, journalism) can't even CONCEIVE there is any other point of view or historical example. They are handicapped by the limits they've placed on their own intellect.

John is correct.; 2/21/19, 12:57 PM
Rick said...: Neither John nor Ann give two shits about free speech on campus.

I don't believe this. I think they both support traditionally liberal values. Their mistake is believing there is some constituency on the left that agrees with them.; 2/21/19, 1:03 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Achilles says...
“John and Ann are just trying to excuse their bias and cowardice.

You don’t care about conservatives or deplorables at all. This comment is the definition of virtue signaling.

But we see how Ann reacts when her little bubble gets pricked. She is just hiding from the fact that she and her son only want conservatives and libertarians around when they make them feel good. They don’t actually want those deplorables to speak or have any agency.

No really this post is disgusting and you should all feel shame.”
——————————————————-

You know what is the worst form of bias? Extremist bias Everyone and everything is “evil” to these nutcases. No one “has a soul” to them, thereby dehumanizing their enemies. No one is a “good or decent” person except those who share their extremist views. Achilles has been ramping up his extremism, or feeling braver about displaying it here. Domestic terrorism is a real thing perpetrated by extremists.

Achilles says...
“The purveyor of bias is unaware of their bias. This is the nature of bias.”

Take a look at yourself.; 2/21/19, 1:20 PM
Nonapod said...: In our modern culture I believe that it's indesputable that Conservatives are regularly bombarded with far more criticisms than their Liberal counterparts. Conservatives are in an almost permanent defensive posture. Right wingers are endlessly being accused of racism, homophobia, sexism, xenophobia, misogyny, and facism. They're mocked ceaselessly by late night TV comedians. They're targeted and assailed on social media. And as we've seen over the past few months, they're the victims of hoaxes that are perpetuated on both social media and main stream media.

To be an outspoken Conservative in modern times requires a thick skin and a willingness to defend your beliefs against on endless onslaught of abuse, mischaracterizations, and outright lies. It's just a harsher experience than being an outspoken Liberal.; 2/21/19, 1:24 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “I don't believe this. I think they both support traditionally liberal values. Their mistake is believing there is some constituency on the left that agrees with them.”

Also an extremist view. Who do you think liberals are? You don’t know any liberals personally? You also are guilty of dehumanizing liberals. Most liberals I know are married, with children, work for a living, like your neighbors maybe. The way you isolate liberals as some different species is stupid and dangerous and before you know it you’ll sound just like Achilles.; 2/21/19, 1:25 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Our knowledge of both sides of the coin serve us well.”

Indeed, partly why I’m here.

“ People blinded by self-righteousness and living in liberal bubbles (politics, entertainment, journalism) can't even CONCEIVE there is any other point of view or historical example.”

I comment and read here daily, what “bubble” do you speak of? I read rightist publications just to see what nonsense they are pushing.

“They are handicapped by the limits they've placed on their own intellect.”

I’ve said more than once, based on my observations of you folks here, that it is conservatives who suffer the most from epistemic closure.; 2/21/19, 1:34 PM
Achilles said...: Inga believes Scalise deserved to get shot because he supports the NRA. This is mainstream thought in the Democrat party. The top liked posts on the New York Times has thousands of likes all asking in one way or another if Scalise rethought his support of the second amendment after getting shot by a violent leftist.

John Althouse Cohen voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary just like Hodgkinson did.

Everyone who supports Bernie Sanders knows who is in their coalition and they know what those people will do to their political opponents if they take power.

They all know who the administrators are that make the policies that persecute conservatives and libertarians on campus. They all know what the limits are.

They will never do anything that will make them the target of their violent allies.

Cowards.; 2/21/19, 1:46 PM
Rick said...: Who do you think liberals are?

People who support liberal values call themselves libertarians. People who call themselves liberals support blacklisting and hate.

Here's an example of your so called liberals "working for a living".

The Liberal World

You also are guilty of dehumanizing liberals.

I see we can add "dehumanizing" to the rather long and growing list of words whose definitions you don't know.; 2/21/19, 1:47 PM
Rick said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/21/19, 1:50 PM
Achilles said...: Inga said...

Achilles says...
“The purveyor of bias is unaware of their bias. This is the nature of bias.”

Take a look at yourself.

I read your posts.

You are a fucking idiot.

I can’t wait to see which hoax Inga will fall for next. MAGA hat wearing trump supporters roaming Chicago with nooses and bleach in sub zero temperatures is extraordinarily silly.

But I think Trump paying hookers to pee on a bed Obama slept in is still the best.; 2/21/19, 1:50 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "He says 'only a few racist speakers' are protested."

Like that Nazi Ben Shapiro, for instance.; 2/21/19, 1:51 PM
Rick said...: You know what is the worst form of bias? Extremist bias Everyone and everything is “evil” to these nutcases. No one “has a soul” to them, thereby dehumanizing their enemies.

Do people who claim all Republicans believe as Todd Akin does (but are smart enough not to admit it) and claim the end result of voting Republican is The Handmaid's Tale fall into this category?

It seems like they should.; 2/21/19, 1:51 PM
Achilles said...: Rick said...
Neither John nor Ann give two shits about free speech on campus.

I don't believe this. I think they both support traditionally liberal values. Their mistake is believing there is some constituency on the left that agrees with them.

John voted for Bernie Sanders knowing Sanders wants to take everyone’s money and give it to who he thinks deserves it.

At the core of leftist ideology is the belief that they know what is fair and right and they should make everyone else do want they want.

They just slightly disagree on how long they should give everyone to comply.; 2/21/19, 1:57 PM
Rick said...: John voted for Bernie Sanders knowing Sanders wants to take everyone’s money and give it to who he thinks deserves it.

I'm not sure what you think this proves about his position on free speech.; 2/21/19, 2:03 PM
Gahrie said...: Thank you sir..may I have another?; 2/21/19, 2:08 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Historian Niall Ferguson was interviewed by Dave Rubin a few months ago and it is a fascinating, albeit rather depressing talk.

Ferguson noted that when he went to Oxford in the early '80's, there were plenty of conservatives around - and he was drawn to them because they were much more fun than the leftists. But as conservatives began to retire, the universities made sure they were not replaced with younger conservatives. So, when people like Richard Pipes or Robert Conquest, one of the few historians who grasped the horror of the Soviet system right from the start, retired, lesbian Marxists or post-modernist Foucault fans took their places. Sixties radicals who never left the university played the villains' role in that process and Ferguson blames conservative scholars like himself and Roger Scruton for not playing the campus politics game better.

Ferguson said that when he went to Stanford, he was isolated in the Hoover Institute and was not even permitted to enter the History Department, despite the fact that he had published many acclaimed works and was the best known historian there. Stanford was able to point to Ferguson and say "See! We do hire conservatives!" while keeping Ferguson from any meaningful interaction with his peers or with the student body.

He says the truly terrifying thing about this is that there will soon be nobody at Western universities who will be teaching the true history of the USSR or Communist China. The atrocities committed by Communism will be ignored or glossed over in favor of feminist intersectional dance theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdeFJ4WCqhk; 2/21/19, 2:15 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: "After graduation, who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?"

Yes, and if we're being frank, who's going to be less likely to make himself look like a complete idiot when writing about positions with which he disagrees?

I know extremely intelligent people with advanced degrees who post embarrassingly stupid things on social media, betraying total ignorance of why conservatives believe what they believe.; 2/21/19, 2:16 PM
Rick said...: I know extremely intelligent people with advanced degrees who post embarrassingly stupid things on social media, betraying total ignorance of why conservatives believe what they believe.

I suspect you don't know any who ever paid a price for this. Saying something against leftism (even if correct) can cost you jobs and friends. Saying stupid things about the right will win you more jobs and friends than it costs you.; 2/21/19, 2:28 PM
Achilles said...: Rick said...
John voted for Bernie Sanders knowing Sanders wants to take everyone’s money and give it to who he thinks deserves it.

I'm not sure what you think this proves about his position on free speech.

John supports our freedom to speak as long as leftists remain in power and maintain the ability to take your stuff and give it to the people in a "fair" manner.

Also he feels really bad when his leftist allies beat up his political opponents.

John's own words:

“And you know who’s especially hurt by this? Liberals. “

He feels really really bad. But it is really liberals that are hurt by this leftist violence.; 2/21/19, 2:34 PM
Achilles said...: Bay Area Guy said...

But tell us how you really feel, Achilles!

The world does not appreciate honesty.

Outta curiosity, when did you serve? I served in the Reagan 80s, through Gulf War 1. I only ask, because I'm willing to bet that I'm older than you. With age comes patience, and a slightly different perspective.

OIF and OEF. It was a joke.

So, No, I don't have the political piss and vinegar that you have. And, Yes, I do view the Left as the enemy.

I have been called a racist nazi bigot a million times too many. Fuck all of them and fuck the people that want to give them a pass.

But, I certainly don't hold Althouse and Cohen as part of the problem! I think that's a mistake on your part. Althouse, in my view, has been a heroic supporter of free speech, and it looks like it spread to her son, too.

Althouse trained these people. She was a professor that tought all of these leftist lawyers. Althouse voted for these people. Althouse supports the NYT's/WAPO/NBC/CBS?ABC etc.

No virtue signaling. My honest assessment.

JAC was virtue signaling. Ann is virtue signaling. You are giving them a pass.

Also, because I live/work/jive with the Left in the Bay Area, I get to see them first hand, so I do see their shortcomings, but also see some of their positive traits too.

I am in Seattle. There are Bernie stickers all over the place. Bernie supporters are self righteous and the violence is right there just under the surface. It is a necessary component of believing the government should take someones stuff by force.

In my view, we are in a "cultural cold war," not a hot war, not a civil war.

But I acknowledge I could be wrong. And I acknowledge, that if the shit ever hits the fan, ya want guys like Achilles on the wall.

Peace, brother.

The democrat party threatened to nuke people who will not give up their guns in a confiscation scheme.

In the places they have power they silence speech they disagree with including most major corporations and almost every university and all of whom give massive amounts of money to democrats.

Facebook stole the private information of 63 million Americans and helped their political allies spy on everyone.

Obama used the state to spy on his political opponents and the entire federal bureaucracy helped him.

There have been over 20 race hoax's pushed by the media in the last 3 years and every one received more press on the up than when it was proven a hoax.

If you want to talk about National Socialism this is the definition of. You have every ingredient of a fascist state.

There is no common ground here. They should be treated like the Nazi's they are and anyone who sympathizes with them is enabling this shit.; 2/21/19, 2:53 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: "I suspect you don't know any who ever paid a price for this. Saying something against leftism (even if correct) can cost you jobs and friends. Saying stupid things about the right will win you more jobs and friends than it costs you."

I agree with all of that. (Though they do pay the tiny price of looking like idiots to anyone who knows better, and most of them would be abashed to think that they looked like idiots to anyone.); 2/21/19, 3:08 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Achilles, I think your assessment of JAC and Althouse is totally off base.; 2/21/19, 3:11 PM
FIDO said...: Far be it from me to defend Althouse in any way, but she proves the lie that is Inga. She stated categorically that she has lost many friends just from posting things that give any cover to the Right point of view (perhaps we are better Amazon Portal Purchasers).

To even acknowledge that the Right has a point of view (Something that Inga has NEVER done, for what little of her stuff I have read) cost Althouse much.

But really...how good friends were they if they are going to cut you for a blog?; 2/21/19, 3:19 PM
Sebastian said...: "The more conservative students receive greater opportunities — opportunities to consider more ideas, because they know what they hear/read plus what’s in their heads! After graduation, who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?"

An old cliche. Conservatives do have to contend with opposing views, but of course they also face the constant hassle of dealing with prog BS, they have to carefully monitor what they say since they risk being shunned and denounced, and they are better equipped mostly in keeping their head down in hostile environments. Outside of explicitly conservative-leaning environments, where are the "intellectually diverse groups"? In the MSM, in higher ed, in lower ed, in pop culture, in tech, in non-profits? Who exactly values "intellectually diverse groups of people"--in particular, who among progs?

In any diverse group not explicitly dedicated to a conservative cause, progs will try to take over.; 2/21/19, 3:28 PM
Achilles said...: Freeman Hunt said...
Achilles, I think your assessment of JAC and Althouse is totally off base.

That's nice.

You at least provided good reasons for your assertion.

Got any history of democrats supporting slavery you want to help democrats erase today?

You people are enabling this bullshit.; 2/21/19, 3:31 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “You people are enabling this bullshit.”

Why can’t you be as extreme as me?! Whines Achilles.; 2/21/19, 3:50 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “To even acknowledge that the Right has a point of view (Something that Inga has NEVER done, for what little of her stuff I have read) cost Althouse much.”

Simply untrue. Of course you people have a point of view, I read it here daily.; 2/21/19, 3:52 PM
Rick said...: Achilles

[But, I certainly don't hold Althouse and Cohen as part of the problem! I think that's a mistake on your part. Althouse, in my view, has been a heroic supporter of free speech, and it looks like it spread to her son, too.]

Althouse trained these people. She was a professor that tought all of these leftist lawyers. Althouse voted for these people. Althouse supports the NYT's/WAPO/NBC/CBS?ABC etc.

I think you're granting her too much influence. She was one professor of dozens - one that students were warned not to allow to influence their political beliefs. The idea that she shares guilt (or accolades) for their beliefs generally isn't remotely true.

But worse is how you're evaluating things. Ultimately Althouse is an ally to those who oppose the left even though she does not intend to be. She wants the left to be what they promise to be. But since they are not that and will never become that her impact is to weaken them. This is why so many leftists hate her whether that manifests itself by characterizing her as conservative or simply referring to her as a "stupid bitch". They know it and so should you.; 2/21/19, 3:56 PM
Molly said...: When I was in high school in the late 1960s, there were "forensic" or "debate club" competitions among area high schools. Each competitor had to be familiar enough to argue either for or against a proposition (example: "The Vietnam war is immoral.") But the structure of the debate (from memory and probably imprecise): initial presentation or Pro and Con, then Pro must summarize Con arguments, and Con must summarize Pro arguments, and then responses to the opposite arguments, and summary. In Althouse comments, there is often a complete inability of either side to state clearly the argument of the opponent. So: "I think Trump should be removed from office." Response: "your mother wears combat boots." or "I think the media and deep state have been mindlessly anti Trump." Response: "Your mother wears combat boots." Plus unending examples of what my philosophy major college roommate used to refer to as "Proof by repetition."

And for all that the level of debate on Althouse is so so so much higher than in the WaPo or NYT comments section.; 2/21/19, 4:02 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/21/19, 4:03 PM
Michael K said...: Facebook stole the private information of 63 million Americans and helped their political allies spy on everyone.

This brings up an interesting topic I have been reading about lately.

The tech industry and the billionaires it has created decided to ally with the left. That was a while ago and I'm not sure the reason why. Eric Schmidt once said his wife supports abortion but that is only part of it. Maybe some is guilt about having all that money with less work than many others would require. Anyway, they chose the left and have virtually no friends on the right.

Now, we see the rise of lefty Democrats who hate billionaires and are happy to drive Amazon out of NYC.

Where does Big Tech turn ?; 2/21/19, 4:03 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Inga believes Scalise deserved to get shot because he supports the NRA. This is mainstream thought in the Democrat party. The top liked posts on the New York Times has thousands of likes all asking in one way or another if Scalise rethought his support of the second amendment after getting shot by a violent leftist.”

How many times now has Achilles repeated this lie? Is he really so nuts he thinks the more he repeats a lie, the more likely it’ll be true? Do you people want to be associated with this sort of nuttery? I suspect most of you don’t, but are uncomfortable saying do strongly and clearly. These extremists, like Achilles and the Coast Guard domestic terrorist think you are traitors if you don’t accept their extremist world view.; 2/21/19, 4:03 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “She wants the left to be what they promise to be. But since they are not that and will never become that her impact is to weaken them. This is why so many leftists hate her whether that manifests itself by characterizing her as conservative or simply referring to her as a "stupid bitch". They know it and so should you.”

And some of you rightists here have called her a “cunt” and stupid, a liar, and worse. So try not be so hypocritical.

Also since when is the right “who they promise to be”? Laughable. Seems to me Althouse has weakened some rightist nonsense over the years too. Of course, that’s when you folks attack her viciously. How has Althouse been treated by you folks this past 6 weeks or so?; 2/21/19, 4:10 PM
JackWayne said...: In a showdown between Achilles and Inga over Truth and Lies, I choose Achilles.; 2/21/19, 4:15 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "The tech industry and the billionaires it has created decided to ally with the left. That was a while ago and I'm not sure the reason why."

I think it's because the techies believe that if they fund the left's pet causes and give money to Dem candidates, they will be able to run their companies without much government interference. Are Dems (or Republicans, for that matter) terribly concerned about Google's monopoly and its' dealings with the Chinese government? Are they worried about the massive concentration of power in a few companies?

That's why I really don't care about the Amazon deal falling though in NY. Bezos owns the lefty rag WaPo. He thinks his leftist stances will protect him. But AOC doesn't think there are any virtuous billionaires. Maybe these lefty techies will realize that they are selling the progs the ropes they will use to hang them. But I doubt it.; 2/21/19, 4:23 PM
Drago said...: The Desperately Spinning and Surprisingly Vulgar Inga: "And some of you rightists here have called her a “cunt” and stupid, a liar, and worse."

I, of course, have never done any such thing.

Needless to say, you have. Tsk tsk

However, LLR Chuck and HoaxPPT are at times astonishingly vulgar and crude.

Number of times Inga has made note of that remains at a steady ZERO.

Unexpectedly.

Well, when Inga cant even admit that commies killed 100M people in the 20th century (she calls it "propaganda", literally, like she's Baghdad Bob!), its easy to overlook other stuff.; 2/21/19, 4:26 PM
Achilles said...: Inga...Allie Oop said...
“Inga believes Scalise deserved to get shot because he supports the NRA. This is mainstream thought in the Democrat party. The top liked posts on the New York Times has thousands of likes all asking in one way or another if Scalise rethought his support of the second amendment after getting shot by a violent leftist.”

How many times now has Achilles repeated this lie?

It isn't a lie.

You specifically said that he supports the NRA and he should stop supporting gun rights because he got shot.

All of your leftist gun grabber friends said the same thing. These comments got thousands of likes all over the internet.

You are all terrible people.; 2/21/19, 4:30 PM
Drago said...: Ingas lefty pals are sucker punching Berkeley conservative students, in camera, and pulling guns on conservatives in Sams Club's, on camera.

Alas, none of them are named Jussie Smollett or Heather Heyer so they are not even really human.; 2/21/19, 4:33 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: @Achilles,

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree.

But there is one area where I give you credit for enlightening me -- identifying the cabal within the GOP who talk a good game, but who are elite, open-border, uni-party, internationalists.

These GOP folks aren't technically on the Left, but they cause and/or enable many problems, too.

I have two brief concluding comments:

1. Many on the Right supported George Bush's Gulf War II in 2003. We thought it wasn't national building, but it was. Trump has largely countermanded this meme. Yes, he wants a strong military, but he is cautious about foreign adventures in the Middle East, which, in my view, is a good thing. The Cold Warriors did their job -- but were slow to pivot after the Berlin Wall fell.

2. My only other comment is that real life is much bigger than twitter/blogosphere/internet politics. Most people want a nice job, nice wife, nice kids, nice house, good schools, safe streets, a few beers and some football. Many, if not most, Americans in the Middle Class attain this, because of the heavy lifting done, in part, by the people before us.

My general take is that that twitter/blogosphere/Internet is mostly a circus for entertainment, although this particular commentariat has a lot of smart, interesting folks.

My 2 cents.; 2/21/19, 4:35 PM
Achilles said...: Rick said...

But worse is how you're evaluating things. Ultimately Althouse is an ally to those who oppose the left even though she does not intend to be. She wants the left to be what they promise to be. But since they are not that and will never become that her impact is to weaken them. This is why so many leftists hate her whether that manifests itself by characterizing her as conservative or simply referring to her as a "stupid bitch". They know it and so should you.

No.

She tells her students and allies to stop beating those people up. Stop persecuting them.

Live up to these principles!

Then she votes for them.

Then she gives them her sympathy. Phillips and Smollet belong in jail. Apologies are not enough.

There are dozens of hoaxes over the last 3 years and Inga and her disgusting fellow leftists are out there every time calling us racists and misogynists.

They are purposely tearing this country apart.

Half the democrats call us racists. The other half say they don't like the hoaxes but Trump supporters are still racists.

Northam and Fairfax are still in office.

Fuck that.; 2/21/19, 4:45 PM
Derve Swanson said...: My favorite ann n jac moment (back when he was jac, not jon) was the crooning the two did to each other the day after Obama was first elected in 2008. Ann had told readers that Barry O. reminded her of her son... and jac was so proud to help elect a black man.

You can search the 2004 thread, but it went something like:
ann: Obama!
jac: Obama!!!!!
together: Obama!!!!!!!!

(This vote came after our blonde hostess twice supported bush/Cheney and their wars of choice...)(meade wasn't in the picture then; her boys played more prominent roles then in influencing their mother's attentions and interests.); 2/21/19, 4:50 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “You specifically said that he supports the NRA and he should stop supporting gun rights because he got shot.”

You are insane. I have never said any such thing.; 2/21/19, 5:33 PM
Richard Dolan said...: His essay is based on the charming albeit counterfactual notion that the point of a university education is broadening the mind, challenging oneself, etc. In reality, for the non-STEM student, it's about getting a credential, mastering some basic reading and writing skills, and (possibly) making connections that will help in later life. Get-along, go-along is certainly part of that, as the students themselves clearly recognize.

For the unusual university student who wants an education in what was formerly called the liberal arts, I'm afraid that's something he will have to obtain on his own. Not likely to make him popular with the in-crowd, though.; 2/21/19, 5:41 PM
buwaya said...: As many have noted above,
"...who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?"

Is a bit beside the point. The route of advancement up the American cursus honorum has very little to do with interacting with diverse groups of people. Your son is sadly lacking in cynicism, Althouse.

"His essay is based on the charming albeit counterfactual notion that the point of a university education is broadening the mind, challenging oneself, etc."

Our children learned this for themselves, some in high school, my daughter in college, that schools, or the American schools they went to, are poor places for such learning.; 2/21/19, 6:18 PM
Rick said...: She tells her students and allies to stop beating those people up. Stop persecuting them.

Live up to these principles!

Then she votes for them.

I don't know that she votes for them, probably in some cases (Obama) but not others (Scott Walker). Even so one vote means nothing. An effective voice - especially one placed where few others dare speak - is worth vastly more.; 2/21/19, 6:28 PM
Achilles said...: Bay Area Guy said...
@Achilles,

Ok, we will have to agree to disagree.

We disagree on style, not substance.

But there is one area where I give you credit for enlightening me -- identifying the cabal within the GOP who talk a good game, but who are elite, open-border, uni-party, internationalists.

These GOP folks aren't technically on the Left, but they cause and/or enable many problems, too.

There is no right/left. I believe in free markets, low taxes, marriage by contract(gay marriage). I also grew tons of marijuana. Amounts measured in increments of 2000 pounds. I would be considered a true liberal by any honest person.

There are only citizens vs the aristocracy/serfs. They are going after the foundations of our republic and there can be no middle ground on the first principles. You either support them or you want to tear the country down.

I have two brief concluding comments:

1. Many on the Right supported George Bush's Gulf War II in 2003. We thought it wasn't national building, but it was. Trump has largely countermanded this meme. Yes, he wants a strong military, but he is cautious about foreign adventures in the Middle East, which, in my view, is a good thing. The Cold Warriors did their job -- but were slow to pivot after the Berlin Wall fell.

I think these wars woke the republican voters up to the truth about the Bush/Uniparty GOP.

Mitt Romney has also had his mask removed. He is the object lesson. There are few people who are more traitorous or awful than Mitt Romney.

2. My only other comment is that real life is much bigger than twitter/blogosphere/internet politics. Most people want a nice job, nice wife, nice kids, nice house, good schools, safe streets, a few beers and some football. Many, if not most, Americans in the Middle Class attain this, because of the heavy lifting done, in part, by the people before us.

My general take is that that twitter/blogosphere/Internet is mostly a circus for entertainment, although this particular commentariat has a lot of smart, interesting folks.

My 2 cents.

The US is a ridiculous place. The average American is so far removed from what the rest of the world is like and so pampered.

They take everything in their life for granted.

If Inga gets her way and the leftist socialists impose their disgusting ideology on the country she would be starving or dead in a few years just like the people of Venezuela.

Inga thinks she would be one of the people the government keeps fed and only her enemies would get starved to death. But she is useless to her masters.

Ann might get fed but I doubt it. She is past her usefulness.

And if the US goes down there will be no one out there to feed us like we are going to feed Venezuela in a few days.; 2/21/19, 6:59 PM
Gahrie said...: I guess that kid at Berkley who got punched in the face on Tuesday should feel privileged.; 2/21/19, 8:44 PM
bagoh20 said...: "After graduation, who’s going to be better-equipped to go out in the world and interact with intellectually diverse groups of people?"

The person who self-educated while spending the last 4 years already out in the world making money and gaining real world experience interacting with intellectually diverse groups of people who are not available on campus. That's who. A lot of college graduates today are ruined for the work out here, and can never get back what they lost.; 2/21/19, 8:50 PM
Maillard Reactionary said...: Looking over the number of comments (I don't claim to have read them all), and the amount of boldface type, I am surprised at the amount, and vehemence of, the controversy here.

Let us just celebrate one of John's lucid moments, and leave it at that.; 2/21/19, 9:18 PM
PaoloP said...: Wow, let's introduce discrimination for everybody, since it's such an opportunity.; 2/21/19, 11:22 PM
Rick said...: Inga...Allie Oop said...

And some of you rightists here have called her a “cunt” and stupid, a liar, and worse.

It's pathetic your best presentation of yourself is an admission you're just like President Mom Jeans, someone you criticize as extremist and hate filled. If you were honest this would trigger some introspection.; 2/22/19, 8:31 AM