February 26, 2019

Richard Cohen (the WaPo columnist) doesn't "quite know what a handbasket is, but the Democratic Party is heading in one to electoral hell with its talk of socialism and reparations."

He's got an image, but he can't picture it. I picture something like this:



But damn, I find it annoying, starting off a column so lazily.
I don't quite know what a handbasket is, but the Democratic Party is heading in one to electoral hell with its talk of socialism and reparations. Given a Republican incumbent who has never exceeded 50 percent in Gallup's approval ratings poll and who won the presidency thanks to a dysfunctional electoral college, the party is nevertheless determined to give Donald Trump a fair shot at re-election by sabotaging itself....
Yes, yes, I know, it's perfectly predictable, the point you're going to make. But you waste my time with a cliché, and you don't know how to use it. It pops in your head and you just start jabbering, padding out your column with the tedious news that you don't understand your own unfresh metaphor. How do you head anywhere in a basket? Is someone carrying the basket? Is it a basket with some automotive power? Is it a basket placed for some reason — by whom? — at the top of a slippery slope?

I'm so glad I stopped to ask, rather than to continue to read the scribblings of Richard Cohen (who is not, I hasten to add, the Richard Cohen to whom I once said, as quoted in the previous post, "Maybe it's not right to bring children into this world"). I presume the column continues to point out the obvious, which you're free to expound on in the comments. I want to talk about going to hell in a handbasket.

First, here's the fantastic Hieronymus Bosch painting, "The Haywain Triptych" (click to enlarge):



Wikipedia explains the painting:
The central panel features a large wagon of hay surrounded by a multitude of fools engaged in a variety of sins... An angel on top of the wagon looks to the sky, praying, but none of the other figures see Christ [in the cloud] looking down on the world. The rightward bow of the figures around the wagon provides the force for the viewer’s eye to move with them on their journey and the cart is drawn by infernal beings which drag everyone to Hell, depicted on the right panel.
So it's a hay wagon, and the movement toward Hell is generated by some nasty characters:



I found that through the Wikipedia article "To hell in a handbasket," but a hay wagon is not a handbasket. A wagon has wheels. So how does a handbasket — which doesn't sound like something with wheels — work as a coveyance to hell?
"Going to hell in a handbasket", "going to hell in a handcart", "going to hell in a handbag", "go to hell in a bucket", "sending something to hell in a handbasket" and "something being like hell in a handbasket" are variations on an American allegorical locution of unclear origin, which describes a situation headed for disaster inescapably or precipitately.
So apparently, not only doesn't Richard Cohen know, Wikipedia doesn't know! But it does offer this:
I. Windslow Ayer's 1865 polemic alleges, "Judge Morris of the Circuit Court of Illinois at an August meeting of Order of the Sons of Liberty said: "Thousands of our best men were prisoners in Camp Douglas, and if once at liberty would 'send abolitionists to hell in a hand basket.'"
That's the idea of sending and not simply going. Notice that in Cohen's locution, getting into a handbasket is a quick way to go to Hell. But why? If someone else puts you in a basket — Mrs. Gulch or the Sons of Liberty — then they've got themselves in good position to take you wherever they want, the nasty demons....



But Cohen imagines the Democrats getting into a handbasket on their own. Won't it just sit there, going nowhere?



Cohen hasn't thought this through, so I will. Once they get in the basket, they've made it easy for their antagonists to pick up the basket and throw it wherever they like. And it won't be the White House.



Oh! There's Trump, building his wall!

177 comments:

Mike Sylwester said...

Why does Richard Cohen call the Electoral College "dysfunctional"?

Because of the Electoral College, Donald Trump won the 2016 Presidential election. That was a superb result of the Electoral College's functioning.

traditionalguy said...

This phrase assumes that members of a group will suffer the Judgemnent due to their evil leaders.

Seeing Red said...

Those dead white men were smart.

rehajm said...

I've always imagined it's like you're one of those fru fru dogs and a Kardashian or a Hilton is lugging you to Hell with them.

Henry said...

I don't quite know what a bucket is, but the Democratic Party is kicking it to electoral hell with its talk of socialism and reparations.

I don't quite know what a highway is, but the Democratic Party is taking one to electoral hell with its talk of socialism and reparations.

There are more, I'm sure.

AlbertAnonymous said...

Trump “won the presidency thanks to a dysfunctional electoral college?”

Seems to me it worked as designed.

Does Cohen ever go back to that reference and explain? Oh never mind, IDGAS

tcrosse said...

The Electoral College was dysfunctional in the sense that the bone-headed Clinton compaign couldn't figure out how it worked.

Bryan Townsend said...

More and more the quality of writing on the Internet, especially in the mass media, is worse and worse. Undigested clichés, meandering logic, arguments without point and just general prolixity. Word processing makes it all too easy to write crap.

bagoh20 said...

"Oh! There's Trump, building his wall!"

The artist did really capture the hair with a stylistic flare - and so early with it - truely visionary.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Hillary will jump in if it all goes too far left.

Oh goodie! Institutionalized corruption - so titillating. The Clintons are not finished fleecing.

Lucid-Ideas said...

My gf and I enjoy picnicking. Enjoy is an understatement actually. When the weather warms up we do it almost every weekend. She inherited the cutest most adorable picnic basket from her late grandmother which I have never seen anywhere else. It was likely made in the first or second decade of the 20th, lacquered wicker, fantastically woven (no loose ends or fraying to catch on clothing), super sturdy handle (I've put north of 50lbs in it), and plenty big.

If one word comes to my mind to describe it, it would be 'cozy'.

When I thought of "going to hell in a handbasket" the image of our picnic basket immediately sprang to mind and I thought well hell that doesn't sound so bad. If life is all about the journey and not the destination, I can't think of a better way to get to hell than in our handbasket. Anyone know of decent crossroads where the devil might be found? I'd sell my soul before I sell that basket.

mccullough said...

Going to hell in a bucket doesn’t make sense either. Maybe it’s like going over Niagsra Falls in a barrel. At least they’ll enjoy the ride.

JHapp said...

A good estimate for the number of slaves taken into the Muslim world is 50 million and counting. I think we should start there.

Wince said...

Last night I watched the HBO documentary paean to Breslin and Hamill.

You can see the roots of Trump hate run deep.

Gail Collins and Richard Cohen were prominent talking heads, to name two from this morning's Althouse posts.

That Trump ascended to the presidency and is succeeding must be killing all of them psychically.

Mark Jones said...

Why does Cohen call the Electoral College "dysfunctional"? Because it forces the Democrats to pay attention to the deplorables in flyover country.

It doesn't matter if Hillary (or whoever in 2020) wins California or New York by many millions of votes, or by a single vote. They still get only a fixed number of electoral votes. Running up the vote tally in solidly Democratic states doesn't do them any good. But it would if the "national public vote" bullshit were enacted, which is why they want it.

But as it stands now, they have to persuade people all over the country, and persuasion (rather than coercion) is not their forte.

Wince said...

Another dystopian scenario for the Democrats: The Handbasket's Tale.

Shouting Thomas said...

This is how you go to hell in a bucket.

You're supposed to enjoy the ride.

Bob Boyd said...

Shorter Cohen: "Stop not lying!"

Mike Sylwester said...

The story in the musical Oklahoma features lunch (hand) baskets. At an auction, the villain Curly buys the heroine Laurey's lunch basket.

This purchase leads ultimately to Curly getting killed and going to hell. In that sense, Curly goes to hell because of a hand basket.

You can buy lunch baskets that are made in the shape of Oklahoma.

tcrosse said...

It looks like 1972 all over again.

bagoh20 said...

I know all this talk of socialism and the other mindless immoralities they are playing with seem suicidal, but the problem is that it is moving the Overton window, and so many young minds are full of mush that I fear the real idiocracy is starting to get a foothold.

Bernie Sanders' positions and policy ideas are reprehensibly stupid, disproved foolishness, and known catastrophes, yet he has a huge following. He is not stupid enough to believe what he says, becuase I don't think anyone could be that stupid and still manage to own three homes and make a career of never having a real job. My new test of a person and their minimal intellect is what they think of Sanders. If they do not see him as dangerous and dishonest, then they do not have even my basic level of respect about politics or much else.

John henry said...

Blogger JHapp said...

A good estimate for the number of slaves taken into the Muslim world is 50 million and counting. I think we should start there.

Sowell and others put the number as high as 100 million in the thousand years between 900 and 1900 (or so)

That is sub-Saharan blacks taken into slavery by (mostly) Arab slave traders. Most went east. About half died on the journey which makes the 50mm a reasonable estimate as well if counting how many arrived rather than how many were taken.

About 10mm went to South American and the Caribbean.

About 1mm came to what is now the US.

John Henry

Two-eyed Jack said...

The road to hell is paved with lazy metaphors.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

It looks like 1972 all over again.

In 1972 we still had a few pioneers, depression and WWII survivors.

Now we have baby-boomers and the illeducated Gen Xers and Millennials.

Charlie Currie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ice Nine said...

The video decidedly shows a picnic basket, not a handbasket. Lid/no lid. (Yes, of course one carries a picnic basket with the hand...and apparently you can tote small pets in them as well as picnic food.)

Amadeus 48 said...

Windslow Ayer's 1865 polemic alleges, "Judge Morris of the Circuit Court of Illinois at an August meeting of Order of the Sons of Liberty said: "Thousands of our best men were prisoners in Camp Douglas, and if once at liberty would 'send abolitionists to hell in a hand basket.'"

Curious quote, that. Camp Douglas was a Confederate POW camp in Chicago, where thousands died from unsanitary conditions. Judge Morris of the Circuit Court of Illinois must have been a Copperhead, urging the dispatch of abolitionists to hell by liberated Rebel soldiers. I hope he had to stand for re-election. The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah! Down with the traitors, and up with the stars!

Stoutcat said...

A) Not to be overly nit-picky, but it's MISS Gulch, not Mrs.

B) Mike Sylwester said... The story in the musical Oklahoma features lunch (hand) baskets. At an auction, the villain Curly buys the heroine Laurey's lunch basket

Curly is the hero in Oklahoma!, not the villain. The villain is the loutish Jud Frye. During the box social, the bidding between Curly and Jud is fierce, but Curly wins the bidding on the lunch (hand) basket (and thereby, the company of Laurey during the meal), by selling his horse and his gun.

Nonapod said...

The word "Handbasket" has more hard consonants in it (which are always the funniest sounding letters) than "haywagon" or "handcart". Multisyllabic words with lots of hard consonants are inherently silly sounding. For example: "Nagasaki" is funnier sounding than "Hiroshima".

CWJ said...

"That is sub-Saharan blacks taken into slavery by (mostly) Arab slave traders."

This is why I've always chuckled when African Americans cast aside their "slave names" in favor of Arab names.

John henry said...

ST,

Thanks for the link. Grateful Dead "Hell in a bucket"

Chorus: "I may be heading for Hell in a bucket but at least I'm enjoying the ride."

reminds me of what I said about McCain and Romney and why I supported Obama in 2012 and would have supported him in 2008 had Sarah Palin not been on the ticket.

I said multiple times in many venues that the US is going to Hell in a handcart and that all Romney, McCain and others would do would be to make the rid more comfortable with perhaps better seating and food service. Maybe, if we got really lucky, they would try to slow the handcart a bit.

I supported Obama because, as Lenin famously said "Worse is better" We needed someone who would stop, or at least try to stop the handcart. Someone who would try to turn it around.

That is President Trump. We would not have gotten him without Obama.

Thanks Obama. Thank you for bringing us President Trump.

And thanks to AOC for helping bring his 2nd term.

John Henry

MadisonMan said...

If you pad your column start with a paragraph or two of nonsense you don't understand, you are then better able to fulfill your contractural obligations and cash your paycheck.

Otherwise, the Editor is going to come back and bark at you that he needs two more column inches stat.

Amadeus 48 said...

That infamous interstate compact to cast electoral votes for the popular vote winner will last right until Trump gets a popular vote majority in 2020. I relish California casting its electoral votes for Trump after Trump loses the state by 3,000,000 votes.

Skeptical Voter said...

Ah dear old goofmeister Richard Cohen. He can't see much since his head is usually firmly inserted about 12 inches above the lower end of his alimentary canal. But he knows what he knows, and actually said it this column. "Trump is a rotten President."

My favorite Cohen column involved him out riding his bicycle. He said that as he rode, he experienced an epiphany---the subject was Barack Obama. I don't know if Barack was wearing a halo in that Cohen fever dream or not--but he probably was.

But Cohen could have used a different metaphor for this particular column. No handbasket involved. Just "flushing their electoral hopes down the commode".

Jake said...

Are they at least enjoying the ride?

Fernandinande said...

Oh, what a tangled basket we weave, when first we practice to deceive!

Mike Sylwester said...

Stoutcat, thanks for correcting my comment.

tcrosse said...

Richard Cohen is a basket case.

Nonapod said...

Richard Cohen's skull is the handbasket for his brain.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

I’ve always thought going to hell in a hand basket referred to losing your head. I picture that you’ve been beheaded and your head is scooped up into handbasket to be carried off to hell. Who does the carrying? Never really thought about that, the person or thing that caused you to lose your head, I would suppose.

Going to hell in a bucket would be the same thing. Going to hell in a wheelbarrow or handcart I imagine as meaning you’re dead but not dismembered, or perhaps just mostly dead, such as in Monty Python’s Holy Grail or Princess Bride.

MacMacConnell said...

Nothing says, "I'm an elitist fuckwad" than "I don't know what a handbasket is".

Limited blogger said...

I told you. To their credit the Dems realize 2020 is lost.

They're just throwing shit against wall to see what sticks.

Kevin said...

Is someone carrying the basket?

AOC, urged on by a party overly-infatuated with the young, female, non-white, college-educated, progressive sliver of their base.

They keep telling us she's the future.

TML said...

"El Bosco"

tcrosse said...

Where did that basket go?

MBunge said...

"Handbasket" = small basket carried with one hand. How do you not know that? The only other option would be "handbasket" = basket used to carried hands.

Mike

Left Bank of the Charles said...

If I am right, then going to hell in a handbasket is the ultimate dead metaphor.

MacMacConnell said...

I missed the Oscars and the threads concerning it here. I have watched some local news coverage, but I'm confused. Why was Spike Lee dressed as a bellhop?

narciso said...

that's probably true, john henry, the huntress was the only one who gave cohen as much agita,
as with madden murphy Wallace, noonan, et al,
btw what up with cortez's older sister, the mayor of san juan

Jeff Gee said...

I've always thought 'going to hell in a hand basket' meant you're tucked into a nice cosy basket full of delicious stuff to eat, and you think you're heading to a sunny picnic, but when they yank off that checkered blanket, it turns out you're in Hell. Maybe there's even a Fleischer Brothers cartoon like that?

John henry said...

Blogger narciso said...

btw what up with cortez's older sister, the mayor of san juan

She's dancing as fast as she can, trying to stay out of jail.

De donde estas, Narciso? Estas de aqui?

John Henry

Left Bank of the Charles said...

Basket case may share some of the same origin. That phrase supposedly referred to some who lost both arms and both legs, and so had to be picked up in a basket (but not a handbasket).

Basket rhymes with casket. My Iowa grandfather always talked about how he was going to be buried in a basket, which was a form of humble brag.

John henry said...

Blogger Jeff Gee said...

I've always thought 'going to hell in a hand basket' meant you're tucked into a nice cosy basket full of delicious stuff to eat, and you think you're heading to a sunny picnic, but when they yank off that checkered blanket, it turns out you're in Hell. Maybe there's even a Fleischer Brothers cartoon like that?

Alternately, when they yank off that blanket, all you see is cannibals with knives and forks. The good news is that you are at that sunny picnic. The bad news is that you are the delicious stuff to eat that the basket is full of.

John Henry

Bob Boyd said...

The Easter Bunny uses a hand basket. Has for years. Seems to work well for him.
I don't know if he visits hell or hides eggs for the damned.

Jack Klompus said...

Sitting through Hell in a Bucket at a Dead show is almost as bad as being around all the people who religiously attend Dead shows.

MadisonMan said...

During the box social, the bidding between Curly and Jud is fierce, but Curly wins the bidding on the lunch (hand) basket (and thereby, the company of Laurey during the meal), by selling his horse and his gun.

Jud eventually sets fire to the hay pile that Curly and Laurey are on top of, and when Curly jumps down onto Jud, Jud falls on his own knife, dead. Poor Jud is then dead.

narciso said...

no, but' i'm somewhat near Orlando, little san juan, are they actually investigating her or her predecessor only, it seems rosello's cabinet has more than a few bugs in the soup, like the former housing secretary,

Left Bank of the Charles said...

At rural Iowa funerals there is always a bit of pride in the number of pallbearers, which can be increased beyond the physical limitations of the casket size by naming honorary pallbearers. Going to hell in a handbasket implies one pallbearer, which would humiliate a rural Iowan.

narciso said...

meanwhile across the great lakes, we have dumpster fires in snow,


https://www.steynonline.com/9214/fake-hate-crimes-and-fake-resignations

jaydub said...

Venezuela is proving once again that while an electorate can vote its way into socialism, it has to shoot its way out. Given the abject failure of socialism and communism in the history of the world and the death and misery it has visited upon the countries that tragically adopted it, the promotion of socialism in the US by the Democrat party is a clear evidence of that party's unworthiness to govern. The US will never take the socialist road because socialism requires that we surrender our freedom, our property and our families to the state. That's the only way socialism can prevail. Ain't gonna happen. Cohen is right.

Darrell said...

When you die and Osirus weighs your soul against a feather, if your soul is heavier it is carried to the underworld in a handbasket. It floats away to "heaven" otherwise. . .

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

(hand)"Basket of Deplorables"

Jupiter said...

I see it as being all nicely packaged up and tucked in, so as to be easily carried to one's destination. Wherefore, there is little chance of ending up anywhere else.

Peter said...

We tend to think something can't be a misquote or oxymoronic or a mixed metaphor simply because it's old. Going the hell in a handbasket is incoherent and probably made no more sense in the 19th century than it does today, although going there in a handcart makes some sense.

Jupiter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dreams said...

I think these are obviously handbaskets.

https://www.prairiewoodbasketry.com/index.php/2016/02/03/basket-weaving-in-south-central-kentucky/

MountainMan said...

I wonder how "dysfunctional" he thought the Electoral College was in 1992 when Bill Clinton won the presidency with just 42% of the so-called popular vote? And I guess he would have been displeased in 1860 that Abraham Lincoln won with just 39.8%.

Yancey Ward said...

The Democratic candidates proposals are insane, but if you had told me a decade ago that the field would be stating them publicly today, I would thought you were insane. Things have changed, and that should be worrying.

Jupiter said...

At Mount Bachelor, south of Bend, they used to employ personable young marketing ladies to stand next to the lifts at the bottom with a clipboard and ask "Where are you from?" as you got on. If you replied "Helena", she would poise her pen over her clipboard and brightly inquire, "Helena, Montana?". There was just time to answer, "No, Helena Handbasket!", before the chair swung you up into the sky.

MadisonMan said...

On the plus side, Jud's fingernails never looked so clean.

He was a deplorable.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

" 'Hand--basket'? What the hell is a 'hand-basket' " --Che

Stepper said...

Perhaps the destination is named Hellinahandbasket, and that's where some people are going to. Hellinahandbasket, Texas, or something like that, probably where Ima & Ura Hogg live.

RK said...

I don't quite know what a handbasket is,...

Journalists -- not educated or intelligent enough to figure out what a handbasket is, but they have a confident opinion about the really complicated stuff.

Robert Cook said...

Since when is the Democratic Party talking about socialism and reparations?

A few individuals in the party advocating such things is not the party as a whole. The party as a whole acts as a shill for the corporate/military/intelligence complex. Baseless and coordinated chatter that "the party" is talking of such things just shows that no discussion of any policy proposals outside the accepted limited norms will be tolerated.

Ralph L said...

Oh! There's Trump, building his wall!

With the help of a black man!

Anne in Rockwall, TX said...

Grocery stores call those plastic baskets with the two wire handles hadnbaskets.

hombre said...

For some time the Democrat platform has been abortion on demand, climate chaos, race baiting, genitalia obsessing and not much else. The addition of socialism, reparations and, let’s not forget, infanticide would seem apt.

The Evil Party’s journey to Hell, in a handbasket or otherwise, has less to do with electoral politics than with abandoning God, dealing death to 60 million preborn babies and conspiring to legalize infanticide.

Sebastian said...

"who won the presidency thanks to a dysfunctional electoral college"

Except that the EC functioned just as intended. Thanks, Framers!

OK, so now leading Dem candidates push socialism and reparations and GND.

Yet Althouse, as is her wont, focuses on word play and pictures.

At what point will she and her nice, reasonable midwestern sisters, supposedly clamoring for "serious" candidates, get serious themselves, draw a line, and tell the Dems to go to hell?

I'd like to think Cohen is right, but judging by the midterms there are plenty of nice women who will abet Dem insanity.

Big Mike said...

@Althouse, by getting all hung up on the “Hell in a handbasket” metaphor you missed a better bon mot:

“In fact, [the Democrat Party is] veering so far to the left it could lose an election in 1950s Bulgaria.”

Now THAT is cold!

Robert Cook said...

"I wonder how 'dysfunctional' he thought the Electoral College was in 1992 when Bill Clinton won the presidency with just 42% of the so-called popular vote? And I guess he would have been displeased in 1860 that Abraham Lincoln won with just 39.8%."

It's not what percentage of the popular vote they get, it's how much they get in relation to their opponents. Did George HW Bush get a greater percentage of the popular vote than Clinton? No. Clinton's vote percentage was greater. Likewise, Lincoln in 1860 received, by far, a much greater percentage of the popular vote than any of his opponents individually, (though more people voted for his opponents collectively than voted for Lincoln).

Hillary Clinton did receive a greater percentage of the popular vote than Trump, but not in the states that delivered the necessary electoral votes. This is, of course, how the Electoral College can work, but it is rare, and this is where musings on the "dysfuntion" of the Electoral College come from. The founders wanted there to be a mechanism that would mitigate pure democracy.

hombre said...

What are Democrats to do when 49%, a plurality, of 18-29 year olds (Pew Research) favor socialism, tell the truth? Unthinkable! Besides, who among their leaders has experience with truth-telling?

Michael K said...

The founders wanted there to be a mechanism that would mitigate pure democracy.

They also did not anticipate a state with 30 million people. Good point.

rhhardin said...

After management gives a talk, as you walk out, say, "What are all these handbaskets for?"

Not Sure said...

In the early days of automobile design, wicker seats were sometimes used to reduce vehicle weight. Such cars were commonly referred to as "Handbaskets." Also, a common measure of a car's reliability was how long a day trip could be made without overheating its engine. The standard measure became a two-hour drive.

Since Hell, Michigan, is about an hour's drive from Detroit, the phrase "to Hell and back" became a common way to refer to the two-hour-drive standard of reliability. Making that trip in a car with wicker seats therefore came to be called "Going to Hell in a Handbasket."

Sigivald said...

A handbasket is a hand-held basket. Such as one uses at a grocery store, if one is not using a cart.

What world does he live in...?

hombre said...

Cook wrote: “Since when is the Democratic Party talking about socialism and reparations?”

You must get out more, Cook. Bernie Sanders is a self-described “Democratic Socialist” who made a credible run for the Democrat nomination for President. AOC’s party designation is “Democratic Socialist.”

It is silly, even for you, to pretend that the Democrat followers of these two are just “a few individuals.”

Lincolntf said...

Ann, I am taking classes at a local tech college. One of the classes is Writing and Inquiry. I have used a few of your posts to demonstrate proper paragraphing, persuasive speech, etc. So, thanks for being a resource.

David Begley said...

Do the Obama kids get reparations? Bill Cosby?

wwww said...

"The founders wanted there to be a mechanism that would mitigate pure democracy."

And it was the only way they could get enough smaller states to sign on to the Constitution. Americans may have a better understanding of the Declaration of Independence then the Constitution. Americans understand consent of the governed & democracy. Popular understandings view "no taxation without representation" to be majority rule vote by all adults citizen voters. Many see minority wins & minority rule as illegitimate.

Americans are less educated about what it means to live in a Constitutional Republic. There's a strong mythos that majority vote of the citizens will rule. However, that's now how the Constitution works for choosing the Commander-In-Chief. Majority votes of the states determines that vote.

Robert Cook said...

"You must get out more, Cook. Bernie Sanders is a self-described 'Democratic Socialist' who made a credible run for the Democrat nomination for President. AOC’s party designation is 'Democratic Socialist.'

"It is silly, even for you, to pretend that the Democrat followers of these two are just 'a few individuals.'"


When people talk of "the Democrats" speaking of socialism and reparations, they're referring to the Democrats in Congress, to the party as a whole, not to the followers of the handful of Dems who are promoting various degrees of left-leaning policies.

In short, they're lying.

Big Mike said...

Simple defense of the Electoral College: no one sane would want to live in a country where the President is chosen by a coalition of Californicators and the denizens of Néw York City.

MikeR said...

Must be hard to be a Trump-hater right now. Two things can happen in the next month that would be as devastating as the 2016 election: a) Peace with North Korea, and b) Mueller doesn't report collusion.
They would of course talk themselves into ignoring them, but still.
They must pin their hopes on Chairman Kim. No peace, Kim! Be stubborn!

wwww said...

I agree with R. Cook.

Lots of people voted for Sanders as a protest vote for HRC or other reasons. AOC represents her district, that's it, maybe 12K people voted in that election. The attention comes for other reasons, and older male conservatives tend to give her the most attention & talk a lot about how she looks. She's got little power. See Senator F. tell the kids she's not voting for AOC's idea.

Now, a lot of leftists have declared for the Presidency. That's one lane in the primary vote. Only 1 moderate has declared so far. It's early, and there's a significant and large moderate lane. If all of the leftists split the primary vote, the winner is going to be a moderate, even if she eats salad with a fork, gets upset when aids forget her coat when flying to MN, and tells people she would "trade 3 of you for a bottle of water."

wwww said...

Prediction:

This may be the largest group of candidates to run in recent memory. Prepare for people to win primaries w/ 20% of the vote. Vote splitting between coalitions is going to be a big problem.

A possibility: Booker & Kamala & Warren split their coalition's vote, while the moderates coalesce around 1 candidate. But, if the moderates start splitting their vote, then who knows? Anyways, it's still way too early to guess.

Nonapod said...

The Democrats need worthy candidates -- some who can occupy the media's idle hours in Iowa and remind America that the party is not in the least Trotskyite. Joe Biden would fit the bill. So would John Kerry and, of course, so would Mike Bloomberg. Kamala Harris, who has the necessary happy countenance of the successful politician, would suffice if, as I suspect, she turns out to be more moderate than she now appears.

Kamala Harris claimed to be for reparations. Even if she later goes back on that, or "clarifies" that position (which I expect she will), it looks like shifty pandering. But in general she seems to be a bit too underpolished for the hypothetical mainstream Dem voter.

Joe Biden is a gaffe machine with a less than ideal record of being a little too handsy with women and girls in many public events over the years. That won't play well in the #metoo era. Plus he's a really old white dude.

Kerry is a supercilious twit who has always had trouble understanding and appealing to the lumpenprole. He already lost the presidency because of it. Also too old and white

Bloomberg is a weird plutocrat nanny stater who also seems too old and white to appeal to the new Dem party much.

reader said...

I prefer baskets that can carry a letter to my love.

Carter Wood said...

Ella Fitzgerald alludes to expropriation in her hit, "A Tisket a Tasket."

Carter Wood said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tommyesq said...

I always thought "to hell in a handbasket" implied that you were sinning in a more passive way, such as blindly following a person who leads you to bad ends, effectively carrying you with them to hell. Seems like an appropriate metaphor for current circumstances, if I am right.

Eleanor said...

My ancient Latin teacher liked to go off on tangents. She described "going to hell in a handbasket" as your head dropping into a basket after the guillotine had done its job. We believed her since she was old enough to have lived through the French Revolution and to have seen it with her own eyes. Or so she told us

Rick said...

Only 1 moderate has declared so far.

Is this supposed to be Klobuchar? Or Booker?

Klobuchar's spokesperson said "she would sign on to support the Green New Deal."

Booker announced himself as a co-sponsor.

So they may be moderates in the sense they're slightly less fervently crazy but they're not moderate in any meaningful way.

In fact the only large constituency of moderates in the Democratic Party today (or among the left generally) is people who aren't very engaged politically but trust the mythology that Dems look out for individuals / oppose racism. These people don't have much of a say because they (1) are less likely to vote in the primary, and (2) will vote for any Dem.

Lurker21 said...

The saying "going to Hell in handbasket" goes back to the 1680s. Perhaps it was a combination of "going to Hell in a handcart" and "give your head in a handbasket," a saying relating to the practice of execution by beheading. If you would "give the devil your head in a handbasket" for something, then you obviously want it very much. Both sayings rely on alliteration and the very strangeness of "going to Hell in a handbasket" could have made it stick around longer than others.

About Cohen: 1) When a writer uses an archaic phrase or expression, it's pretty common for the writer to disclaim knowledge of what the rare words in the expression are. Readers probably don't know either, and just waving the archaisms away is preferable to either tediously explaining them or giving befuddled readers the impression that they are words one ought to know. 2) If you didn't want Trump to win in 2016 (or Bush to win in 2000), chances are you probably think there is something "dysfunctional" about the Electoral College. If you did, then you don't. Every tribe has its verities and shibboleths, and if one focuses on them, one isn't going to get very far.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Slightly off topic... Our Brazilian MAGA Hat girl is illegal, in ICE custody, faces deportation.
Winning!

Drago said...

wwww: "The attention comes for other reasons, and older male conservatives tend to give her the most attention & talk a lot about how she looks."

This is laughably and demonstrably false as lefty talking heads and lefty media personalities and lefty activist groups and lefty dem Presidential candidates and lefty magazine/webzine owners/editors and lefty newspaper owners/editors all went gaga over AOC and pumped her up beyond all reason.

Then AOC kept running her mouth and exposing her utterly empty and mindless leftism, at which point the lefties, as wwww has done here, shifted to the entirely predictable and boring "republicans pounce!" narrative.

Just because all normal people are laughing at the stupidity of AOC doesnt mean anyone is pouncing.

MBunge said...

"you probably think there is something "dysfunctional" about the Electoral College"

No, it is a bit more than that. If you don't understand the Electoral College, you don't understand how the American political system works and WHY it works that way. There are a few direct democracy cranks out there but most Electoral College hate comes from those who identify with the coastal political elite and can't stand to be reminded the rest of the country actually matters.

It's the same reason we get VASTLY more complaining about Iowa leading off the presidential nominating process, even though every crtiticsm of Iowa applies even more to New Hampshire.

Mike

n.n said...
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dustbunny said...

Althouse outdoes herself when she finds such delicious material. A columnist’s sloppilly worded imagery combined with her art history savvy produces a garden of delights. Bravo!

MadTownGuy said...

More about handbasket. From the article:

"The first version of 'to hell in a handbasket' that I can find in print comes from the Weekly pacquet of advice from Rome: or, The history of popery, 1682:

"...that noise of a Popish Plot was nothing in the world but an intrigue of the Whigs to destroy the Kings best Friends, and the Devil fetch me to Hell in a Hand basket, if I might have my will, there should not be one Fanatical Dog left alive in the three Kingdoms."

The widely held belief that 'hell in a handbasket' is of US origin is incorrect, although it isn't often now used outside the USA. There are variants of the phrase that use various forms of transport, travelling either to hell or to heaven. The English preacher Thomas Adams referred to 'going to heaven in a wheelbarrow' in Gods Bounty on Proverbs, 1618:

Oh, this oppressor [that is, one who was wealthy but gave little to the church] must needs go to heaven! What shall hinder him? But it will be, as the byword is, in a wheelbarrow: the fiends, and not the angels, will take hold on him.
"

n.n said...

Also, the Americans, and our Posterity, who stood against slavery, and who today stand against a persistent and toxic diversity. The Americans who stood with native Americans against other native Americans bent on their genocide, slavery, diversity, and redistributive change.

n.n said...

Our Brazilian MAGA Hat girl is illegal, in ICE custody

That explains why the bright red hat provoked her aggression. It could have been an awkward grade school gesture, but, alas, it probably was not.

Kirk Parker said...

"At what point will she and her nice, reasonable midwestern sisters, supposedly clamoring for "serious" candidates, get serious themselves, draw a line, and tell the Dems to go to hell?"

Althouse won't abandon her Cruel Neutrality posture until they're grabbing her screaming self and pushing her onto the tumbril....


Robert Cook,

You appear to have a decent understanding of the purpose of the EC. However, I'd advise you to avoid the term Popular Vote when talking about presidential elections, since totalling up the individual votes of all 51 separate elections has no more bearing on who wins the election than the question of which team gained more yardage determines who wins a football game.


wwww,

"no taxation without representation"

We need to start working on the converse, too: No Representation Without Taxation. It's too easy for those with no skin in the game to vote for taking things away from those who do.

Bay Area Guy said...

Cohen sees clearly how going Left, endangers the Dems' chances to beat Trump.

But still - not everything has to be about Trump.

It'd be nice if Cohen could articulate how going Left hurts the country and our people, but maybe that's asking too much.

Bruce Hayden said...

It isn't just socialism, of course. The Senate yesterday failed to get enough votes (60) to move S.311 ("Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act") along. Voting against it were 44 of 47 Democrats (all except Casey, Manchin, and Jones), with a couple of female Republican squishes not voting. This is at a time when abortion, per se, is, for the first time in a long time, losing out in recent polling. At a time when the majority of the population is questioning any abortion, the Democrats in the Senate (which includes a large number of their announced Presidential candidates) are voting for post birth abortion (aka Infanticide). And, of course, AOC is championing Americans having no children, because, no doubt, she read somewhere that that is the best way to control carbon emissions, or some such nonsense.

Bruce Hayden said...

(Reposted from an earlier thread)

If you are worried about the next election, and what the Democrats will likely try to do if they win the next election, you might want to download the Zipped file at this link:

https://mega.nz/#!6YdRmIBK!qKFOLkmQGDBHTLVe6AdJOjBNyO7G0HMoPtzmyx06VO8

It didn't work with Firefox, but I was successful with Win 8.1 IE.

Hint - The NJ AG was attempting to keep this information off of the Internet.

gahrie said...
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narciso said...

In other news:
https://pjmedia.com/blog/liveblogevent/live-blog-195/entry-254455/

gahrie said...

In fact the only large constituency of moderates in the Democratic Party today (or among the left generally) is people who aren't very engaged politically but trust the mythology that Dems look out for individuals / oppose racism.

It's hard to believe that less than 20 years ago Joe Lieberman was the vice presidential nominee of the Democratic Party.

gahrie said...

It's not what percentage of the popular vote they get, it's how much they get in relation to their opponents.

Not always. In 1824 Jackson got more popular votes and more Electoral College votes than any of his three opponents and still lost the election.

Rick said...

It's hard to believe that less than 20 years ago Joe Lieberman was the vice presidential nominee of the Democratic Party.

Was it the next cycle when he lost the Democratic Primary for his own Senate seat? Even then he was a figurehead to distract from how far left the Dems had already moved and they've moved much further left since then.

Bilwick said...

Pretty much the "liberal" Hive its Democratic Eloi have turned into Miss Gulch. They want to stuff those of us who value liberty into a handbasket and ride off with us to Gehenna.

Maillard Reactionary said...

This has all been very informative. For years, I've been wondering where we were going, and why we are in this handbasket.

My sincere thanks to all, and not least to that trippin' crazy man Hieronymus Bosch. What a wild and crazy guy he was.

wwww said...

"We need to start working on the converse, too: No Representation Without Taxation. It's too easy for those with no skin in the game to vote for taking things away from those who do."

I don't know if that's in the American grain. Americans rejected it around the time of Andrew Jackson. Got rid of property or taxation requirements much earlier then places like the British colonies in what is now Canada. It's very American to go all-in on Thomas Paine's revolutionary ideas, wanting to include sailors or indentured servants or men without property.

wwww said...

ok Drago, we disagree. Anyways most people don't know or care who she is.

Still, it's my opinion she's getting a lot of twitter notice from conservative men, who talk about her a LOT. My personal opinion is a lot of it is about her youth & looks. There are a lot of dumb representatives, who say really dumb stuff, that people ignore. She won 1 election that 12K people voted in. The USA is filled with 320 million people. She might get primaried in her next election if people are annoyed enough about Amazon. If not, she's not especially liked by the moderate caucus.

Anyways, she's a Jr. member in a 400 person body & eminently ignorable. But we disagree about that & that's fine.

Rick said...

Got rid of property or taxation requirements

I suspect he's thinking about enforcing this the opposite way by ensuring everyone pays some federal income tax and having every tax increase effect everyone.

Rick said...

There are a lot of dumb representatives, who say really dumb stuff, that people ignore.

So that would be different from launching an initiative to completely rework the economy within ten years which draws public support from every announced presidential candidate in her party right?

It's interesting that the left was hyping her before the right but people who can only criticize the right pretend half this process never actually occurred.

wwww said...

"Is this supposed to be Klobuchar? Or Booker?"


It's Klobuchar. She is the only moderate, although Booker will try to grab some of those votes. Mostly he'll be to the left. A.K. will run as a moderate in the primaries & caucuses, and go for the moderate votes. She will throw stuff out there and appeal to those votes, but she's not going to say yes to free college or a bunch of the other stuff.

The others are all running to the left as fast as possible to get those votes. That's why they're sounding like they are. They want to position themselves as the number 1 in that lane.

There's a moderate lane and a leftist lane in the primary. Right now all of the candidates but A.K. are in the leftist lane. If Biden gets in he'll be in the moderate lane, and A.K and Biden will split the moderate vote, unless one is the clear front runner.

Michael K said...

It's hard to believe that less than 20 years ago Joe Lieberman was the vice presidential nominee of the Democratic Party.

Lieberman lost the Dims primary to a trust fund baby named Ned Lamont who is typical of the 21st century Democrats. He is now Governor of Connecticut.

He is the great-grandson of former J. P. Morgan & Co. chair Thomas W. Lamont and a grand-nephew of former American Civil Liberties Union director Corliss Lamont.[8]

Lamont's family moved to Laurel Hollow on Long Island when he was seven years old. The eldest of three children, he and his sisters attended East Woods School.[4][9] He later attended Phillips Exeter Academy, and served as president of the student newspaper, The Exonian. After graduating Phillips Exeter in 1972, he earned a Bachelor of Arts in sociology from Harvard College in 1976 and a Master of Business Administration from the Yale School of Management in 1980.


Standard left wing trust fund kid.

Browndog said...

Bernie is a 'take from the rich, give to the poor' socialist--just like every single democrat in my lifetime.

Libs loved Bernie because he was upfront about.

There are no "varying degrees" in the goals of democrats, only to what extent they're willing to lie to hide their true intent.

wwww said...

"It's interesting that the left was hyping her before the right but people who can only criticize the right pretend half this process never actually occurred."

I agree there's a segment on the left that hypes her up. & she got a LOT of press from her surprise win. & now she still gets media coverage because of her looks & youth. She gets ratings. I will agree her twitter following gets her a certain amount of soft power. But it's not hard power unless people listen to her, and write laws according to her wishes. I'm doubtful their support of her ideas are anything more then lip service to win the primary.

Just my POV. I could be wrong. Let's see what happens in the general.

Drago said...

wwww: "It's Klobuchar. She is the only moderate, ..."

LOL

Klobuchar has publicly supported the insane Green New Deal and "Medicare For All" as discussion starting points for the democrats.

Klobuchar supports the option of whacking babies born alive.

Behold, a democrat "moderate".

Wilbur said...

Ecce moderata!

narciso said...

so the real life louis winthorpe, or a younger Sherman McCoy even though he was newer money, (btw, that penguy is a tool)

wwww said...

Drago,

huh, chill. NOTE: I'm not arguing to the blog commentariat she is your definition of "moderate." I am stating she is running in the moderate lane of the primary and she will be going for those votes in the Democratic primary.

I may or may not think she is moderate. But it's irrelevant, because I am discussing my my analysis of her strategy & the votes she's competing for in the democratic primary. I'm interested in the analysis of the state-of-play and their strategies. That's it.

If you don't think Moderate-leaning Dems, who VOTE IN THE PRIMARY, will vote for her, well, ok. But if you're arguing that a devoted Trump supporter does not think she's a moderate, that's fine for what it is, but it has nothing to do with my comment.

Will Cate said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Bs4xhDyxw

wwww said...


Arguing & name calling is boring for me. Talking about their strategy is fun. I can name all of your talking points before you say them, so it's boring. I don't really get what you get out of arguing with people on the internet.

Now, that's i'm curious about. Why? What do you get out of it? Nobody convinces anybody else on the internet. Why doesn't it bore you? If you gotta get out aggression, why aren't video games or hockey or boxing more fun?

I find it tedious if the discussion is not a intellectual debate, or chatting about something fun or curious (music! piano! cost of raising kids!), or strategy analysis.

narciso said...

right because moderates is who run the primaries, tell me another one,

https://saraacarter.com/holder-calls-the-electoral-college-undemocratic-and-vestige-of-the-past/

narciso said...

it will be interesting if last week's events made an impression on the citizens of the windy city in today's primary, I would be pleasantly surprised,

Birkel said...

Hieronymus Bosch is also the name of the main character on an Amazon show called, sure enough, Bosch.
Just an aside that is marginally on topic.

narciso said...

are they afraid of the truth, you betcha:

https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/02/youtube-terminates-don-shipleys-channel-that-exposed-nathan-phillips-stolen-valor/77685/

Birkel said...

wwww: Setting the terms by which others may debate on the internet while determining the value of doing things differently than she would prefer. And making it look easy, too!

Also, wwww has determined that she knows all the counter arguments that any of us might offer. That's a useful talent. Life must be really boring for the omniscient.

I challenge wwww to present a conservative argument, faithfully.

Kirk Parker said...

wwww, Rick:

Notice how I introduce the point by saying "need to start working" on it? I indeed have not the slightest idea how to make such a concept palatable in our current political situation... so just take it as my attempt to point out that Voting For Free Stuff is part of what is killing us.

StephenFearby said...

In addition to hand baskets, there's also head baskets. Did Louis XVI go to heaven or hell in a head basket?

French Kissed by the Guillotine
BY LAETITIA BARBIER APRIL 22, 2013

"...In 1790, power changed hands as the French people overthrew the monarchy. In 1793, the wigged head of Louis XVI fell into a basket under the screams of a furious crowd...."

"...Behind the scaffolds, a 32-year-old woman undertook the gruesome labor of casting in wax the severed heads of the enemies of the Revolution. The effigies were then paraded on picks in the streets as symbolic sacraments of the people’s victory. The diligent wax manufacturer’s name was Marie Grosholz, a name she promptly changed after her wedding to become Madame Tussaud."

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/morbid-monday-french-kissed-by-the-guillotine

Inga...Allie Oop said...

I agree there's a segment on the left that hypes her up. & she got a LOT of press from her surprise win. & now she still gets media coverage because of her looks & youth. She gets ratings. I will agree her twitter following gets her a certain amount of soft power. But it's not hard power unless people listen to her, and write laws according to her wishes. I'm doubtful their support of her ideas are anything more then lip service to win the primary.

Exactly right.

Browndog said...

Blogger Birkel said...

wwww: Setting the terms by which others may debate on the internet while determining the value of doing things differently than she would prefer. And making it look easy, too!


Heh-

Rick said...

Right now all of the candidates but A.K. are in the leftist lane.

Right now all the candidates including A.K are in the leftist lane.

alanc709 said...

The Moderate channel of the primaries? Is that the Mencheviks? Progressive and moderates don't play well together.

Rick said...

But it's not hard power unless people listen to her, and write laws according to her wishes. I'm doubtful their support of her ideas are anything more then lip service to win the primary.

But the attention is conservative men paying attention to her looks and not presidential candidates co-sponsoring her agenda.

That's a totally credible position.

Birkel said...

The Leftist presidential candidates are scared of losing the Leftist activist base.
AOC is a faithful representation of the Leftist activist base.
AOC may not have power but all the presidential candidates act like she does.

But Leftists know power comes from the barrel of a gun.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“But Leftists know power comes from the barrel of a gun.”

Says a Rightist who worships guns.

Birkel said...

Royal ass Inga,
I am just paraphrasing one of yours.
Try to be smarter.

Sorry that people are going to point and laugh at you again.
Maybe delete your foolishness.

narciso said...

occasionally she gets off her soapbox, but not usually, a firearm is a tool, for certain purposes, notably self defense, against oppressive government, that was the purpose of the second amendment, now on the frontier, it was as necessary to deal with predators, human and animal,

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“I am just paraphrasing one of yours.”

Yeah right. I’d suggest you don’t make it so easy for me to mock you.

narciso said...

there's as bad as everytown, putting the tsaernaev brothers as victims of gun violence,

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/25/jetblue-fugitive-shakur-black-history/

narciso said...

how about that?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/26/rosiane-santos-woman-charged-assaulting-man-maga-h/

Birkel said...

Mao Zedong, Royal ass Inga.
One of yours.

Ignorance is truly your strength.

Bruce Hayden said...

“The Leftist presidential candidates are scared of losing the Leftist activist base.
AOC is a faithful representation of the Leftist activist base.
AOC may not have power but all the presidential candidates act like she does”

If enough people act like she has powe, then she has power. Hers may be soft power, but is still power. Kinda like the pope, who really doesn’t have that nanny troops reporting to him, but is one of the most consequential human on the planet thanks to the hundreds of Olin Roman Catholics in his church.

Josephbleau said...

The “ to hell in a bucket” is a false memory. It is misapplied from the famous: “ There was a miss from Nantucket, Who went to the moon in a bucket, And when she got there, They asked for her fare, So she showed them her blank and said blank.”

Birkel said...

Quite right, Bruce Hayden.

But don't discount my Mao Zedong reference and Royal ass Inga's ignorance of same.

Jokes in the era of that's not funny should be celebrated.

Ken B said...

What a vacuous Wikipedia article.

Here is an occurrence from 1682 https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hell-in-a-handbasket.html
That refutes several theories.

Ken B said...

Robert Cooke says the Democrats are not in fact talking socialism and reparations. My response: New party, who dat?

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Drago 1
www 0

Your side exposed and promoted her. We’re laughing. Now you wanna blame us for discovering her. Right.

Ken B said...

Cooke forgets there were living founders in 1824, when the minority vote getter won due to the electoral college. These living founders included Jefferson, Adams and Madison. They made no complaint.
Don’t they teach US history in America? I’m a Canadian, I know this stuff.

Drago said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

wwww: "I agree there's a segment on the left that hypes her up."

Reality does not require your agreement.

The pathetic (but amusing) lefty backpedal after the entirety of the left/LLR's hyping of her simply because she blurted out the truth of what the left/LLR are really after is entirely expected.

In precisely the same fashion as the lefties spinning like whirling dervishes pretending that all across the country democrats aren't offering and passing legislation to allow for the butchering of babies born alive.

A baby, born alive, umbilical cord detached, struggling for life.....

...the lefts response?

Meh.

"Moral leadership".....

Drago said...

Birkel: "Mao Zedong, Royal ass Inga.
One of yours."

That wont work Birkel.

Within the last week Inga officially pronounced estimates of 100 million human beings murdered by commie regimes in the 20th century "propaganda".

In the past Inga has labeled as "propaganda" the fact that the Clinton admin abused FBI secret background files of republicans, under oath testimony of the coup plotters McCabe/Bruce Ohr/Simpson/Steele, and any number of other established facts.

Kirk Parker said...

"propaganda"? Nah, it's "Marketing".

wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
wwww said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
pacwest said...

"Anyways, she's a Jr. member in a 400 person body & eminently ignorable. But we disagree about that & that's fine."

Sounds like a recent President we had. Thats what makes her so scary. Eminently ignorable? No. More like never again.

Marcus Bressler said...

The "Popular Vote" only matters at the state level.

I've heard (and used) the handbasket expression because I anticipate going there due to my dark and inappropriate humor, not to mention acting out on my character defects. Getting sober may not save me, but hopefully slow down the ride.

THEOLDMAN

Browndog said...

One author starts removing their comment, next thing you know it's a trend.

TheThinMan said...

Cohen’s clumsy use of a metaphor does its job of distracting the reader as he pulls off his real crime:

“Given a Republican incumbent who has never exceeded 50 percent in Gallup's approval ratings poll and who won the presidency thanks to a dysfunctional electoral college,”

“Given”? He’s sneaking in a lie in the guise of a well-known, boring fact he needs to briefly remind us of before going on with his clever opinions. The unwitting reader has a seed planted in his mind that some hanky panky went on in the electoral college, whatever it was, and if it had just done their job Trump wouldn’t be president. This fake fact does its job of hardening Trump Derangement Syndrome in the liberal reader and perhaps infecting the non liberal.

Not clumsy writing at all.

Robert Cook said...

"Cooke forgets there were living founders in 1824, when the minority vote getter won due to the electoral college. These living founders included Jefferson, Adams and Madison. They made no complaint.
Don’t they teach US history in America? I’m a Canadian, I know this stuff."


I know this stuff, too. I didn't make a complaint, either. I even stated plainly, the founders instituted the Electoral College as a mechanism to mitigate pure democracy. The founders were fearful the proles who owned no land would appropriate the wealth and power that was rightfully theirs.

I don't think we should have an Electoral College, but we do, and that's how it works.

Rance Fasoldt said...

The vote is for President of the United States, not President of the Americans. Every state has its say.

PresbyPoet said...

Imagine having to have a recount for the entire country. In 1960 Kennedy wins 34.2 million to 34.1 million. Kennedy only wins the popular vote total because in Alabama the democrat electors were 5 Kennedy and 6 unpledged, but 100% of the votes are allocated to Kennedy in the vote total. If you allocate at the 5/6 proportion, Nixon is the vote leader by a few thousand out of 68.8 million. In Alabama that year it was even stranger, since they voted for individual electors, and each elector got different # of votes. There was no slate voting .

You think Florida was tough.Imagine recounting 69 million votes. In 1960, the electoral vote was 303 to 219 with Harry Byrd getting 15, and so the electoral college was not as close as the actual vote. That tends to be the way it works, it is rare for a close electoral college vote.
The electoral college is a fortunate accident. It means that the winner must have support in a majority of the country, and small states cannot be ignored. It vastly reduces the impact of fraud in the election.

Joanne Jacobs said...

We know the road to hell is paved with good intentions. If the good intentions are slick and the road is downhill, one could slide to hell in a handbasket. C.S. Lewis in The Screwtape Letters: “Indeed the safest road to Hell is the gradual one--the gentle slope . . . "

Or perhaps Donald Trump will have his undocumented hotel staff carry the Democrats' handbasket to hell. It would be labor intensive, but they work cheap.