It had a radical affect on the college application process, he says. Offers of full scholarships poured in...
... but that made him realize it wasn't right to hold himself out as Native American. He didn't take any of the offers and he didn't check the box again.
"I'll tell ya — checking the box back in my childhood opened up the heavens, and you got free stuff."
Adams does however endorse checking the box if you are low-income person who can honestly check the box and take advantage in a way the system was designed to give advantage. If that's what you did, then "I don't think there's anything to apologize for."
But in his case, he says, "it was a step too far." He knew, even at the time, it would be wrong for him. But he "won't hold it against" Elizabeth Warren if she identified herself in the way she believed was true and took the advantage that the system was trying to give people who were what she believed she was. "She wasn't rich either, was she?"
Adams doesn't talk about whether he would advise his younger self to take the scholarships. If it was good ethics for Warren to take the advantage, was teenage Scott Adams deluded to deny himself a benefit? And Elizabeth Warren continued to take advantage far into her adulthood. What does Scott think about that? He doesn't say.
By the way, I don't believe Warren has apologized for holding herself out as a person with Native American ancestry and accepting the advantages that flowed from that self-identification. I think she's only apologized for failing to acknowledge that American Indian tribes care about tribal membership and object to individuals self-identifying based on their own claims of ancestry or genetic tests. She still asserts, I believe, that she never checked the box dishonestly and even claims that her DNA test, which shows a smidgeon of Native American ancestry, supports her family's story, which was the basis of her belief that she could check the box.
And Scott Adams eventually took a DNA test too. He has no Native American ancestry at all.
February 8, 2019
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166 comments:
"And Scott Adams eventually took a DNA test too. He has no Native American ancestry at all."
It may be that Scott Adams is not descended from the first American immigrants, or even from the first wave of invaders who displaced settled immigrants. But whether a DNA test would prove that is far from clear.
Affirmative action based on economic circumstance isn't at all as controversial as other forms. I'm not sure why it's not more popular.
Penn has been very quiet about why they hired Warren. Harvard can just say it relied on fact that Penn hired her. Harvard held her out as an Injun because that was helpful to Harvard. Penn probably knew the Injun claim was bullshit, too, but needed the diversity.
The benefits of diversity to the school are saying we have XX Native Americans. So they need people to fill those slots. And to fill that slot you just need to check the box, no questions asked beyond that.
That's great Scott. So high-minded of you. 'We' intend to hold her accountable however. Thanks though.
I think she flat out lied.
But, what the hell. The quota system deserves to be scammed.
The joke is on Harvard Law and that's a good thing, too.
Did any of Warren's siblings make use of the same advantage Warren gave herself?
The benefits of diversity to the school are saying we have XX Native Americans. So they need people to fill those slots. And to fill that slot you just need to check the box, no questions asked beyond that.
I once heard at a college, "next year we'll have a Native American working here!" Nothing about the person as a person; the person was just a label. Very dehumanizing and patronizing.
The Senators say Northam has to resign for Blackface.
Why doesn’t Warren have to resign for cultural misappropriation?
What Warren did is much worse
I'd prefer a fake Indian to a real criminal (Hillary)
Even as a young person, the message this sends is quite clear.
1) The standard is arbitrary. It is not based on performance, and performance may be subordinated to factors (like race) beyond your control
2) The system - as arbitrary - is also rigged. Either against you or for you.
3) You can assist the 'rigging' of this arbitrary system by lying. You will not be called on your lies if you make them.
4) Your lies may in fact benefit you in other ways beyond just admission and financial support.
5) If discovered your lies - although damaging - will not be the catastrophic discovery they ought to be. You've - after all - already made it far beyond 99% of what most people aspire to.
6) Any damage caused by your lying will fundamentally not affect the overall underlying system - which is arbitrary - which allowed you to abuse it in the first place. The status quo will continue and those that support it will continue to run interference for the other 99% of people who are low-profile enough to not get caught.
The point to this exercise is that - as so many believe and have said before - race-based admission is in itself discriminatory, arbitrary, devaluing and therefore should be abolished in favor of objective standards.
Warren quite literally stole someone else's spot. I'm not even talking about a native-American's. Huge numbers of people think that's the problem while completely ignoring the 800lb gorilla in the room which is that the spot - as determined by heritage - shouldn't have existed in the first place.
Warren is liar. The system that allowed this lie also created the motivation and incentive to lie. That system should be torn down.
"... but that made him realize it wasn't right to hold himself out as Native American. He didn't take any of the offers and he didn't check the box again."
Adams is talking about monetary benefits, which complicates the issue. But would it be wrong simply to apply claiming to be one of the anointeds, and accept admission on that basis? Was it wrong in 1930 for blacks to "pass" as white? Is it wrong if they do so today?
I'm glad I'm retired and I don't have to fight against the quota system any longer.
So, as much as I'd like to see Warren publicly shamed and driven into exile, I'll pass on getting involved.
Over the long haul, I won the fight. I was clever. The quota babies were almost always incompetent and self-destructed. Warren, too.
There were no mitochondrial DNA tests until the early1990s and they were too expensive to use for another 10 years.But Warren’s career path proved she still believes in cheating when she can get away with it.
OT: I was going to put this in the music thread below - I'm gonna deposit it here if that's OK?
If you're ever bored on a cold winter's night and you have Amazon Prime streaming, Q up "Quark Science". It's a series of 6 episodes that loosely relate to each other on various topics of scientific themes. (Great for science dummies!)
The 5th episode is called "Sonic Magic: The Wonders of Science and Sound."
Here's a little trailer. I loved it.
This whole episode is so telling and damning for the DNC.
A sitting white senator has been caught red-handed culturally appropriating minority heritage for financial and status benefit and yet she remains within the DNC wigwam. She has just gored the following Democratic sacred cows
1) Race and cultural appropriation
2) Lying about it
3) Getting caught lying about it
4) Providing an un-apology for it
5) Continuing to move forward despite it
6) Mentioning more evidence is forthcoming about it...
7) ...and who the hell knows when that is
If she was a Republican we'd never hear the end of it. If I was Democratic leadership I would be making huge, un-subtle moves to get her tossed out of the party and unseated as soon as possible. I don't see or hear this happening.
Democrats truly are a party that believes in two separate cultural rule books. One for them and one for everyone else. This race shit is truly their ultimate foil, to be used as and when they wish for their benefit only.
Fuck them and fuck Warren. They in heap big trouble now. We're going to start making them live up to these rules.
When you take into account the details of Warren's DNA test, I think the statement, "has no Native American ancestry at all" would be closer to the truth than, "her DNA test...shows a smidgeon of Native American ancestry."
Despite this Indian controversy, Elizabeth Warren wins big majorities in Massachusetts. She can win a big majority likewise in the entire USA.
She should stay in the election race!
free stuff
Indians like free stuff.
U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren listed her race as "American Indian" on her 1986 Texas State Bar registration card.
All leftists in government are government whores.
Hey, Lucid Ideas, did you say Sitting White Senator? Hahahaha!
Adams does however endorse checking the box if you are low-income person who can honestly check the box and take advantage in a way the system was designed to give advantage.
I can define myself to fit those definitions. You can too!
If that's what you did, then "I don't think there's anything to apologize for."
Nothing to apologize for except benefiting from a skanky racist scam.
How much does Elizabeth Warren forgive people who have worn blackface at parties when they were young?
What has Warren said about Governor Northam?
If she makes a big deal about him, then she does not deserve any mercy at all. She should remain no more than a Senator.
Elizabeth Warren's problem is that she chose an ethnic identification with a risible culture, not that she offended any tribe. She's dying the death of a thousand indian jokes.
Isn't claiming the ancestry to help get a faculty appointment or for the state bar application different from a relatively poor kid fudging it to become an undergraduate some place? Isn't the kid a bit misguided while the full fledged adult lawyer is running a con?
What exactly is our system? If you belong to the correct "tribe" you get free stuff? Do Obama's kids get free stuff because they are 75% black?
This is nuts.
My first experience with affirmative action was when I arrived at college. Several of the students in my wing of the freshman dorm were participating in a "transitional year program". The program provided an extra year of college filled with remedial classes. It was impossible to flunk out of the program, which led to the development of some attitude and entitlement issues. Nonetheless, many program participants left after they recognized they were being carried through school. I took up math and philosophy majors, so I lost track of them and don't know if any of them graduated. I was from a blue collar family and was amazed at how little value they placed on their free education.
Adams said he was deluged with scholarship offers after checking the box.
I wonder, did Warren accept scholarships by claiming Native ancestry?
Elizabeth Warren Admits To Wearing Paleface At College Costume Party
Paleface speak with forked tongue.
Strike two on Justin Fairfax. This time with a contemporary complaint to the victim's friend that she was raped, specifying him by name.
This time, I think that two strikes is out.
Warren is appearing in redface these days.
She claims to have gained no benefit from having listed herself as American Indian, and Penn and Harvard claim it had no impact on their hiring decisions. I think that Scott's experience shows that those claims are pretty unlikely. I have an architect friend who is a member of recognized tribe, and the state is eager to give him all the business they can so they can up their supplier diversity score.
She knew exactly what she was doing.
She's dying the death of a thousand indian jokes.
An Indian walks into a bar and the bartender says "Hey, I though you froze to death in the park after getting blind drunk!"
It's funny because that's what happened to my Lpog's Indian friend's sister. Even funnier are her missing son and the murdered son and the stabbed other sister.
It's called "gaming the system"
In the 70s, the Left moved towards a multi-ethnic standard, and if you were black, or Indian or hispanic or a woman, you got extra stuff. Not commenting on whether this was a good idea then or not. (It's a bad idea TODAY). Just commenting that it occurred back then.
Warren gamed the system. She got advancement and promotions based on her faux Native American heritage, no doubt.
@Nancy
Why yes Nancy yes I did:)
Warren no poor pawnee proper pity. Warren wade waist-deep in woe from white lie, receive wompom for whopper. We plan hold toes to fire. Send smoke signal for future heap big democratic candidates they not welcome in big teepee USA.
Yeah, this is a terrible system and all. Check a box, get money offered. Don't check it, no money.
But the real point of Adams' essay is preemptive inoculation. He figures that if he confesses the sin now and says, "I didn't take the money anyway," all will be forgiven. It shouldn't be. It was a grotesque grab by him when he did it, and the confession tells me more about his character than most of his current writings.
So if your Grandma says you're 1/16 Indian without any other proof you can claim to be native american and take away a position/scholarship from a REAL native american.
Well, okey dokey.
Personally, I claim to be directly descended from the "Unknown Human Ancestor" because that's my sincere belief so FU if you don't me I'm a victim how dare you etc, but so far it hasn't been included on those important government check-boxes.
IT reminds me of the George Castanza excuse:
"Its not lying - if you think its true"
We have the family Indian lore, too. I NEVER thought to do that. I wasn’t raised like that.
Decades ago, I checked Native American on the census form even though I had no connection. Didn't do for any gain but because I didn't like be asked my ethic background by the government and this was my way of rebelling.
Good thing Grandma O'Connor decided that Affirmative action was constitutional because "reasons".
Otherwise, some naive white person might wonder why he's being discriminated based on race.
I'm surprised Adams was part of the "I'm really an Indian" nonsense. Usually the people who claim this are Southerners.
It seems like everyone below the Mason-Dixon Line either is related to a Confederate General or has Indian Blood.
Dave Begley said...
Do Obama's kids get free stuff because they are 75% black?
I guaranty that they will, and nobody on the Lib site will say jack shit about it.
Yeah. What if everyone checks the Native American box on the 2020 Census?
You are correct. Dies in Darkness recently printed a form from the 80s where she wrote in by hand “Native American” for her race.
She used this lie to gain advantage while an affluent, educated, professional. She is a fraud.
If you lie or cheat, just admit it and remedy to the truth and fairness as best you can, but don't look for some way to justify it. Fair or not, the advantages were not designed for Adams, and they were not designed for Warren. Now if you want to stick with your lying and cheating, then be a big enough person to just admit that too, but it cannot be both, as Adams is trying to do here.
Adams did not take advantage, and so owes nobody anything, but Warren cheated someone out of a spot, and maybe a whole better career and life. She needs to make some restitution. I'd suggest paying the tuition for an actual Cherokee somewhere.
covered with a pillow, until it stopped moving:
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/02/another-woman-accuses-justin-fairfax-of-raping-her-in-college/#comments
It will be fascinating to watch how LLR Chuck pretzels himself in such a way as to attack Adams while simultaneously defending Warren.
It should be fun to watch.
Lying and cheating is the Leftist way. The rewards are worth it.
I thought I could dance. It was brutal finding out I can't. But no one else got hurt.
Native American as in United States of America? The other class of "Native American" implies a relation that did not exist, and combines disparate nations, tribes, and cultures, under a diversity umbrella, and selectively excludes others.
She has of course apologized for 5he wrong thing. In fact, getting an objective determination via DNA is, despite how tribal councils with a vested interest feel, not something one should apologize for. It is after all an attempt to find the truth. Or is for most people, I think she is acting in bad faith.
Did any of Warren's siblings make use of the same advantage Warren gave herself?
That's a good question.
BAG
Coyne tried defending her by taking Harvard at its word, so “she got no advantage “. Well, that's laughable but even if it were true it’s obtuse. She TRIED. Attempted fraud is still a crime.
When achievements are not enough, use other arrows in your quiver, young Fauxcahontas.
-Chief Running Sore
Democrat Truth Serum:
Liz Warren: Yes, I checked the boxes for Native American heritage. It helped advance my career in academia. No, I'm not a Cherokee. But a lotta folks from Oklahoma are.
Kamala Harris: Yes, I slept with 60-year old, Mayor Willie Brown, when I was 30. He got me 2 high paying commissioner jobs, and he helped me become DA.
Bernie Sanders: Yes, I'm a socialist. I'm still sad the Soviet Union imploded.
AOC: Yes, I'm a socialist. I think the government should take $ from the rich and give it to the poor.
Justin Fairfax: Yes, I [blanked] those two b%tches.
My DNA test results were boring: English with some Irish and Scots. I was hoping for at least a bit of something more exotic, like the ancestor said to have swum ashore in NC from a sinking pirate ship.
Jim at: "Did any of Warren's siblings make use of the same advantage Warren gave herself?"
No.
And apparently some family members are beginning to speak out against Warren whom the family members believes is throwing the family under the bus to save herself.
I can't imagine anything Warren could do beyond that to make LLR Chuck rush to her defense faster and with more passion.
And if those family members are republicans? LOL Lookout! Here comes #StrongDemDefender Chuck!
Blogger rcocean said...I'm surprised Adams was part of the "I'm really an Indian" nonsense.
--
Maybe because, for a plugged in dude like him, he took a helluva long time to mention it....
My advice to brown-skinned Hispanics and white guys who are 'Swarthy' is:
Claim to be African American. Who can prove you wrong? Under the "one drop" rule you can claim be AA if you're 1/32 black.
This is really effective when a business is trying to reach their "Goal" in a hard to fill technical subject like Engineering or Accounting. You'll get a job like that, and they won't look too closely at how "black" you really are, because all they want to do is meet the quota.
Does anyone look LESS like an Indian than Scott Adams?
If we gave points for looking white, Scott Adams would score 10 on a scale of 1-10.
Lizzy Warren
Adams should clear up his statement on "checking the box." He appears to be saying that he did so on a single application of some type and this resulted in scholarship offers from multiple schools.
He would have been applying in 1975 or thereabouts so I think he would have had to check the American Indian box on each individual college application.
I question his recollection.
Burt Reynolds - now there was a guy with some Typee blood in his background.
"He would have been applying in 1975 or thereabouts so I think he would have had to check the American Indian box on each individual college application."
Really. Maybe he used a copy machine.
Looks like she could be one of the cast at Old World Wisconsin, playing a Norwegian farmer's wife.
"take advantage in a way the system was designed to give advantage"
Which system is that? Like, the system of equal justice under a colorblind Constitution? Or like, the system of equal opportunity under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race etc.?
Maybe a financial aid app which triggered a redirect to schools, scholarships looking for minorities
I was born in New Jersey, which makes me 100% native American.
Affirmative Action is, was, and probably always will be a scam designed to deliver its greatest benefits to the already privileged within the various favoured groups. Minority poor rarely receive much benefit. Adams is a chump. Elizabeth Warren used Affirmative Action exactly the way it was designed.
"Maybe a financial aid app which triggered a redirect to schools, scholarships looking for minorities"
Possibly something like that but the current FAFSA doesn't ask about race so I don't know what app that would have been.
Hey Chuck, same deal here—79% Irish, 21% English/Scottish. I was so disappointed I wanted my money back. You and I might be the only people on the planet who aren’t descended from Charlemagne or Gengis Khan.
My ancestors came from Africa.
If you go back far enough.
And who says you can’t? What’s the cutoff?
"I don't believe Warren has apologized for holding herself out as a person with Native American ancestry and accepting the advantages that flowed from that self-identification."
Worse, she vehemently denies there were ANY advantages.
"What has Warren said about Governor Northam?"
She said he must resign.
I have been told I have Cherokee ancestors. A cousin provided me with a detailed family tree and a long-ago local news article about a Cherokee man and half-white wife ancestors opening a small store in Tennessee.
Never took a DNA test. Never claimed NA status on ANY forms. It would likely have helped my career, but would have, in my mind, been cheating.
I do suggest we should ALL check African American on the 2020 census because the predominate theory is all humans came (at least in part) from ancestors in Africa.
It would implode the entire AA house of cards.
My wife's family on her mother's side claims native ancestry. She looks native, her mom looked native, and her grandmother looked native.
She did her DNA test and it came back 1% which is about right with where the ancestor would be. We are from East Tennessee, and growing up I was about 10 miles from Red Clay. (So there is no confusion, I am a white Devil).
Now my wife is really, really, nice. Even though there was the story, she NEVER claimed the ancestry even though the White Devil, me, told her to.
She also shows 1% Jewish ancestry, and that is why she is so nice....she is related to Jesus! (She really is very nice!)
Now, I know some Melungeons, and there are lots of them in East Tennessee. None of the ones I know claim either black or native ancestry, though they should.
Check out the Melungeons sometime...it's neat. Honest Abe was most likely Melungeon.
East Tennessee history matches well with West Virginia: we supported the union and wanted to remain. But Middle Tennessee sent troops east to prevent ET from seceding from the state. That worked, but Lincoln made ET a priority, and our guys were running guerilla missions against the Confederates all through the war.
My birth name was Baliles. That's anglicized from Belle Isle. We are Appalachian Caguns! Interestingly, one my distant cousins was governor of Virginia. His name is Gerald Baliles. They should give him a call because they could use a man like him right about now.
Good day, everyone!
AllenS @4:32 in response to Dave Begley's question--
"Do Obama's kids get free stuff because they are 75% black?"
Said:
"I guaranty that they will, and nobody on the Lib site will say jack shit about it."
If they combine their Mother's warmth and charm with their Father's work ethic, they'll do splendidly.
Harvard has fought long and hard for AA for decades. Clearly, it is of utmost importance to them. Yet, I don’t think they’ve ever identified a single, solitary person who was a recipient of it. Pardon me if I don’t take their word that it wasn’t a factor.
I never checked the box. I like knowing my scholarships to the UW were based on merit not race. At least when I went there and they had merit scholarships.
The svhools may have been sending Adams information about funds only available to students who checked his box.
Adams is a sly devil -- note his use "childhood" here: "I'll tell ya — checking the box back in my childhood opened up the heavens, and you got free stuff."
My college roommate was as Italian Irish as they come. His father's side immigrated from Italy and spent time in Argentina (not an unusual pattern), so his father's immigration papers said Argentina as country of origin. He applied to law school without claiming a preference, and while he was admitted to good schools, they were not top 10 types. THe next year, he applied but checked the Hispanic box based upon his families Argentinian ties. He was accepted to law school at Michigan, Chicago, Penn, Columbia and others. He accepted a scholarship to Michigan. He felt guilty about it and was genuinely torn about what to do. He told the schools the full story and they had zero issue with his claiming Hispanic heritage. He became a very successful attorney but how it started still others him.
Anyone claiming that Hispanic, African American or Native American heritage is not a preferred class is flat wrong.
To deal with the endless mockery that has resulted from her DNA test, the 1/1024 of Chief Spreading Bull that is Indian will have a beer.
Also I despise the system that gave my grad school classmate a “minority” fellowship for having a blonde, rich Columbia’s mother (dad was a I-banker and Swiss) , while I, got an “honorable mention” despite being a black guy from Milwaukee who grew up in the hood.
in other news:
https://saraacarter.com/schiff-recruiting-former-white-house-officials-to-investigate-trump/
Look up Shelby Steele's personal story about how the universities he applied to didn't realize he was African American so he was sent perfunctory rejection notices but as soon as a couple figured out he was African American the response, he claims, was astonishing and overwhelming.
He was inundated with offer letters and scholarship offers and all sorts of additional benefits and housing allowances and stipends etc.
He was stunned at how differently "white" Shelby Steele was treated and how African American Shelby Steele was treated.
I hope the my relaying this anecdote doesn't trigger LLR Chuck into an attack on Steele for being insufficiently leftist.
I find him annoying. I can’t look at him. His face is gross.
And I don’t like warren. She’s no Kamala-total diva.
Gays for Kamala east coast member,
Titus
Thanks and have a super weekend!
Princess Summerfall Winterspring was known on the set for round heels, not high cheekbones.
bagoh20 said...
"If you lie or cheat, just admit it and remedy to the truth and fairness as best you can, but don't look for some way to justify it. Fair or not, the advantages were not designed for Adams, and they were not designed for Warren. Now if you want to stick with your lying and cheating, then be a big enough person to just admit that too, but it cannot be both, as Adams is trying to do here."
A lot of you seem to feel that a racial spoils system somehow constitutes a holy obligation on those it is intended to harm. Were blacks who "passed" for white in the 1930s "lying and cheating"? Certainly, they were behaving deceptively. But there is no obligation to be honest to people who are trying to harm you without justification, and it is not "cheating" to game an inherently evil system.
The institutions of our society should not base important decisions on race. The fact that they do is disgusting, and if one can subvert the practice one should. I feel slightly guilty that I didn't try to claim "undeserved" privileges. The system should be gamed, but I figured I might get caught, and that might be problematic. I went along with a twisted system out of cowardice.
According to 23 and Me I'm as sub-Saharan African and Warren is Indian. If my daughter wants to check the box when applying to college, fine by me, because it's all BS.
This topic is kind of sad, because "Native American" seems to be an abstract concept for many, maybe most, Americans. Did Scott Adams or Elizabeth Warren know any Native Americans when they checked the boxes? I don't think I knew any Native Americans growing up, although I visited some reservations in the American West on a family holiday. In college I lived in a house with a Native American student among a dozen or so housemates. She was somewhat overwhelmed by the demands of school and did not finish her degree. All this talk of white students maneuvering for advantage reminds me of the difficulty real Native Americans have in finding success with these programs.
The ethnicity of the first Clarabell is open to question. He perfected the lumbering and oafish clown act that later Clarabells never matched.
Real native Americans can assimilate just fine. What you notice is leftovers.
My kids are a quarter Mexican but applied to the UC's as "white".
The UC had no (overt) preferences at the time. They probably could have done better with private schools, who knows, but our income/assets would have instantly eliminated us from anyones financial aid anyway, so no matter.
They did very well. summa cum laude at UCLA, one of them.
I wish the RIdiculous Theater still existed.
We've all got fat asses. We're killing ourselves with eating. Everybody's got every conceivable electronic toy.
And we're fighting like toddlers over who's daddy's favorite.
Sublime.
"It was a grotesque grab by him when he did it, and the confession tells me more about his character than most of his current writings."
Unless of course he's joking, that being his current line of work
I just talked to a Russian operating on Rodrigues Island. Not assimilated, I assume.
Notable for being 9993.8 miles distant.
3B9VB, Vladimir Bykov. He must have picked out the call he wanted.
I can understand Warren believing family stories. What she did in the past is embarrassing but not a major problem. The major problem is with age, she still wants others to believe something that isn't true. That's why her DNA bit failed so poorly. Maybe she still believes; but she's a fool for not realizing others don't.
Alas, she doesn't have a chance at being President. Amongst her primary opponents, she just doesn't stand out other than being older without the wiser.
The Senators say Northam has to resign for Blackface.
Warren should reign for paleface.
Northam should have said his family lore was he’s part black.
Putting on blackface would just be getting in touch with his roots.
It would also explain his innate ability to moonwalk.
Rodriques Island has no natives. It was uninhabited when discovered by the Portuguese. No affirmative action programs.
"Most of the inhabitants are of mixed African and European descent. Its economy is based mainly on fishing, farming, handicraft and a developing tourism sector."
It was WaPo that published the Texas Bar card- that tells me Warren's chances of getting the nomination literally zero. She has been chosen to be a loser by the mainstream media, and this counts for everything in the Democratic primaries.
Affirmative action is now and has always been fundamentally unjust.
Bonus points: the reporter couldn’t have asked Northam to moonwalk without coming across as racist.
Off course, sometimes this all works the other way round. Vox Day discovered that he had an Indian ancestor that was not part of the family lore. But he and his brother do think they know who the ancestor was...
Confederate General or has Indian Blood.
Or both: Stand Watie
She might have believed that she had Cherokee ancestry, but she didn't live as a Cherokee or suffer any ill effects from that ancestry. She checked the box for self serving reasons. She got a leg up because of it, and she knew she'd get a leg up. She's lying if she says that's not the case which is to say she's a liar. Harvard is also lying. I guess they have to commit to their lie, but everyone knows it's a lie.....I'm not against affirmative action, but her actions and those of Harvard are more likely to increase cynicism than support for such programs,
Effect.
I'm German-Irish. I did the Ancestry thing. My mother's grandfather was Jewish. He was the one who migrated to America. While it's true he didn't get sent to a concentration camp, I'm pretty sure that it was German anti-semitism that forced him to migrate and drop his religion. I see no reason why Germany shouldn't fork over some of that reparation money to ne. I've had a tough life, and I see now that all those people who didn't like me were anti- Semites. They should cough up too.
She actually looks more Indian in her younger photos. Long dark hair, high cheekbones.
Her mistake was changing to that Miss Hathaway look.
My family has no Indigian lore, which is one reason I believe I probably have more Indigian blood than Warren. My ancestors were trying to be white (I think), not trying to have a cool story about Grandma being an Indigian Princess.
I'd take the test and bet a year's pay that I'm more Native American than Dies-In-Darkness.
No, my family isn't Southern; there are Indigians everywhere.
Even if she was actually told stories and believed them, that is still no excuse for what she did. She knew full well what it meant to list herself as a NA professionally and she knew full well that she or her family had never suffered the discrimination AA was designed to remedy (at least in theory).
Hey, Donald Trump took advantage of the millions of dollars his father gave him to start out in business, (not to mention futher help along the way from his father whenhe stumbled), Elizabeth Warren checked a box on a job application. He's "smart" for taking advantage of tax laws that can erase his having to pay taxes, she's smart for emphasizing those traits she believed would help sway the job opportunity her way.
It's all good, right?
My wife also grew up with family lore that she was part Cherokee. It never occurred to her to try to take advantage. Later, DNA tests showed there no Native American heritage. A more careful study discovered that a Native American child had been adopted into the family of some forbears, but my wife had no inheritance from this child. I find it amazing to realize how much benefit she could have gotten for claiming to be part Native American. At a time before DNA testing, her claim couldn't have been refuted. Or, for that matter, I could have lied and claimed some minority heritage.
But he "won't hold it against" Elizabeth Warren if she identified herself in the way she believed was true
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- G. Costanza
Perfect timing. By 2020, this is way down the memory hole. Good riddance to bad garage.
"Hey, Donald Trump took advantage of the millions of dollars his father gave him to start out in business, (not to mention futher help along the way from his father whenhe stumbled), Elizabeth Warren checked a box on a job application. He's "smart" for taking advantage of tax laws that can erase his having to pay taxes, she's smart for emphasizing those traits she believed would help sway the job opportunity her way.
It's all good, right?"
Donald Trump didn't take his advantage away from anyone, presuming his father wouldn't donate it. It wasn't taxpayer money. I read you Cook, and I know you know the difference.
Howard: "Perfect timing. By 2020, this is way down the memory hole. Good riddance to bad garage"
Precisely what was said 2 years ago....and in the 2013 campaign.....
"Rick, Cook, parents helping their children succeed is the same as lying and cheating to get into a posh college and push ahead of more deserving candidates."
That assumes Warren lied and that there were more deserving candidates who would have been hired over her but for her checking a box.
Drago: say it ain't so. Warren is undead like Hilary?? We be buggered
Quaestor said...
"Affirmative action is now and has always been fundamentally unjust."
As government policy, certainly. The government has an obligation to deal with each citizen as an individual, not an involuntary member of a group. But I don't see that any such burden lies upon private actors. Of course, most private universities are so heavily subsidized that their status as private actors is suspect.
You heard it here first. Life is unfair. I don't think there's any way to rectify the inherent iniquities of nature and fate, but people like to try. It gives rich people in particular a sense of purpose and moral fulfillment......I was born into poverty. I didn't consider myself blessed as a child, but I've had robust health all of my life,and this despite the fact that I was a smoker and, for some periods, a heavy drinker. Life is unfair, and, as it turned out, I was blessed. Surprise ending. Shame I had to wait this long to realize that some of the breaks in life broke in my favor.
Robert Cook said...
"That assumes Warren lied and that there were more deserving candidates who would have been hired over her but for her checking a box."
Precisely. That assumes that Elizabeth Warren has a moral obligation to help Harvard discriminate against her on the basis of her ancestry. She probably thinks she does. But I don't.
It’s all good filling out that form until you check the box “Unser penalty of law...”
That Texas Bar Assoc application card was a targeted strike from some other Dem primary rival’s oppo research shop. I’d say Harris’ or Biden’s.
I suppose some of the kids that benefit from affirmative action really deserve it, but my guess is that most of them are children of West Indian doctors or sharpies like Elizabeth Warren. Well and good. None of my people were going to go to Harvard anyway, so it's no skin off my nose. The bullshit that surrounds such programs is wearying though.......By "my people" I mean working class Irish Catholic, but I don't even know if I can claim identity in that group. I haven't been to church in years, I make pretty good money, and my mother wasn't Irish. If you're not oppressed, the lines are pretty blurry. Oppression helps you focus. So does pretending to be oppressed.
When I started college in Houston in 1971 my Native American 'heritage' and appearance meant I could pass for Iranian and find a seat in the campus cafeteria right up until I failed to identify myself as a supporter of either the Shah or the Ayatollah. The kid in the incubator next to mine in Lawrence, Kansas, was a "full-blooded" Shawnee from the nearby reservation and my parents often joked that the maternity ward nurses must have switched us by mistake. My mother always had a striking resemblance to her paternal grandmother, a preacher's wife in Indiana whose paternal grandmother was born in 1803 in Ohio along the Tuscarawas River before both statehood and the first recorded birth of a white child in that county. Her husband moved to the Tuscarawas from Maryland in 1810 at age 10 and in 1860 he served as the census enumerator for White Eyes township in Coshocton County. White Eyes and Coshocton referred to the same chief and were used according to the race of the person addressing him.
Warren has brothers. Did any of them also claim to be Native Americans on any forms or official documents? If the family truly believed that they were part Native American, surely they would have checked those boxes too. Someone should ask her.
While I grew up, I often heard stories of Native American ancestry. The relevant branch of my family migrated to Texas from Oklahoma, and it is my understanding that many people in Oklahoma with my (relatively unusual) last name are indeed Native American. But I am light complected, have red hair, and have blue eyes. I have never held myself out as Native American. Doing so would seem absurd to me.
My granddad was born on the res.
My grandma on the other side is Puerto Rican.
My significant other's dad was full blood.
Neither of us checked a box, ever.
WTF has any of that to do with us?
I don't feel sorry for her.
The only good Warren is a dead Warren.
Pettifogger,
I know a red headed and freckled Cherokee.
Nobody doubts she is Native since both her parents (mama's baby, daddy's maybe) are Native.
Genetic variations happen.
She happens to be ridiculously, smoking hot.
And her personal story is horrifying in ways too terrible to relate.
It is a wonder she is marginally sane, given what has happened to her.
Now what?
My genealogical research shows that I may have a Native American ancestor, my 8Xgreat grandmother (1623-1700). If that is so, then I have the same percentage of Native American ancestry as Sen. Warren. When I discovered that, I thought it would be cool to have a Native American ancestor, just as I thought it would be cool that, among my New England Yankee ancestors, there may have been some French, Belgians, and perhaps Gypsys. But I NEVER thought that I could claim that I was an Indian.
Sen. Warren is famous for saying, to successful businesspersons, "You didn't build that". To her I say, with respect to her claim to be a "minority", You didn't earn that.
Anybody here worked and lived on the res?
Anybody here made a little whoopie on the res?
I have.
Anybody think Warren has done anything on the res?
Warren wrote the words "American Indian" on the line that asked about "Race" on her Texas lawyers group card. The only explanation I can see is that she was gaming the system. And people will not overlook it because she has given several varying inconsistent explanations and, by now, she is really insulting our intelligence.
The same goes for Northam. And the Lt. Governor has new accusers - I knew he would when I heard he said "Fuck that bitch." The third proud Virginian is lying low. He merely said he emulated some musician and nothing since.
But it all makes you think. I had the flu a short while ago and missed the news for about 36 hours. While I lay there sipping Theraflu, I thought "I wonder who that was famous before I was sick is even now falling out of sky of fame." Then I thought, "don't be so cynical." But when I crawled over to the computer, they'd bagged Baby-Killer, the Governor of Virginia. Then, two more proud Virginians. Before I was recovered, Bezos was being blackmailed and the Europeans did something about privacy to Facebook. And so it goes.
Unless the parents of Scott Adams were immigrants, Scott Adams has 100% native American blood. However he may not have any Indian blood. (or First Immigrants if you insist)
I could have lied and claimed some minority heritage.
It appears to be working for Rachel Dozeal and Shaun King.
He thinks he more important than he is and he has an ugly face and head and shouldn't video himself. He needs to shut up and stop the camera. Totall grossie. Stop giving him love althouse. Total enabler.
Tits
None of my people were going to go to Harvard anyway, so it's no skin off my nose.
It does matter to the law professors in your family. The person whose place she stole at Harvard (or wherever) had to settle for a lower rung school which then would not have hired your relative. You'd think white professors who weren't hired by Harvard would be bitching loudly, but Diversity Uber Alles.
I was 16 when I applied to college, so Adams could have been, too.
Did any of Warren's siblings make use of the same advantage Warren gave herself?
That's a good question.
I'll be the fourth to echo it.
As for "family lore" she is definitely lying her ass off. Google her 2012 Senate commercial when she claims her father's family so despised her mother for being "part Delaware and part Cherokee that they had to elope." She claimed her own grandparents were racist. Now she is claiming that someone seven generations back might be American Indian and that confirms all the "stories we heard growing up."
Uh uh! She was very spcific in 2012 that her parents eloped because of her mothers Indain-ness. That explanation, like the current ones, stinks to high heaven.
I was told throughout my life that I was 1/64th Cherokee. My dad thus was 1/32, which is the same amount Warren thought she was. My dad was a lawyer and even taught law on a few occasions. Later, he researched the family tree and was surprised to find no Native American lineage. So on these points he's a pretty close parallel to Warren. The very idea of my dad portraying himself as a Native American is absurd: he would have laughed in your face at the suggestion.
I don't get the fraud accusations at all.
Somebody please explain to me how checking a box is not like playing Publishers Clearing House.
By the way, I don't believe Warren has apologized for holding herself out as a person with Native American ancestry and accepting the advantages that flowed from that self-identification. I think she's only apologized for failing to acknowledge that American Indian tribes care about tribal membership and object to individuals self-identifying based on their own claims of ancestry or genetic tests.
Oh yes. The over-privileged bankers and CEOs who fund her opponents are going to be really concerned and upset about this.
Question is, why are you?
So IOW she's about as native as Paul Ryan is Jewish.
Paul Ryan, who used this knowledge of his heritage to say "l'chaim" when toasting his Republicrony douchebag friends.
Cultural appropriation! Unearned privilege!
And yet, the Republicowards are very silent about that.
Tsk tsk tsk.
All leftists in government are government whores.
Oh, you corporatist lackeys and slaves are going to have a very demoralizing 6 years with Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez setting the legislative agenda now, aren't you.
It must suck being so far from the power of the investors and bankers and executives who own your asses, once all your Republican middle managers are swept out of the pecking order.
What a bummer.
Identical twins have taken dna spit tests from multiple vendors and come out with non-identical results. Can one person, then, take the tests multiple times and cherry-pick outlier results as there will probably be differences?
I hope I never run for political office.
I used to smoke cigarettes, drink beer, and swear on Sunday.
Funny how the people who claim to care about affirmative action don’t really give a flying fuck about defrauding minorities out of jobs like Harvard law professor. That spot was not specifically reserved for an Indian, BTW. It could have gone to a black man or woman. Somewhere out there is a black person who was qualified enough for that job if Elizabeth Warren, with her record of attending second rate schools was “qualified.” That black person is not a Harvard Law prof right now.
Of course, what all this shows most clearly is the problem with affirmative action - the beginning of identity politics(?). That said, I have not watched the video (yet) but would equate what Warrent did with a wealthy person taking advantage of every legal tax deduxtion and tax avoidance strategy. It may be distasteful, but most successful people take advantage of the system in one way or another. I am not sure ethics enters into it - at least not in her early applications. I also put this in the category of things done decades ago being judge by today’s standards - inherently unfair.
She has a record in public office — more than enough to judge her by.
Affirmative action sows divisiveness. Warren deserves to be toast. She wasn't poor and poverty wasn't a justification for pretending to be a different race anyway. That's fraud, not youthful indiscretion.
And it's fraud with consequences: she subsequently propped up this racist system, depriving countless white students of an equal chance at school admission and financial aid and scholarships, perpetuating lies at every stage of her career because she had something to hide and a whole lot to gain.
Scott Adams doesn't seem to understand that none of this is outcome neutral. When I taught at a community college in Florida, the minority professors literally faced no consequences for not showing up to teach.
The adjunct broomcloset was all white people doing yeoman's work: one elderly woman was paid piecemeal to cover for the classes missed by a black full-time hire who beat her out for the job because she was black. So taxpayers paid twice for that class, and the poor old white woman filled in for the job that should have been hers at a fraction of what the black teacher received for not showing up to teach it. And she didn't dare speak about this openly. All of this is soul-killing. It sows rational hatred. It divides students and teaches them all the wrong lessons. And remaining silent about it is as cowardly as endorsing it.
Everyone in that broomcloset had similar stories. I walked away. But I have to keep supporting this shakedown with my hard-earned taxes, and so does everyone.
So no, Scott, this isn't some amusing anecdote of youthful indiscretion: it is a perverse and racist rewards system that grinds everyone down within it, even its beneficiaries. Among the elite, affirmative action creates cynicism and nurtures an influential system of race discrimination that impacts all of public life. At the bottom of the economic totem pole (as it were), it destroys standards, oppresses free thought, and stunts careers and lives.
Virtue-signaling will only hold the mob at bay temporarily.
If you should do it if you're poor, we should just be honest and have a box to check for poor people, and skip the race game.
I’m 99.6% European
0.3% Sub-Sarahan African
0.1% Native American
I check all three boxes and write the percentages for accuracy. I don’t want to lie on a form.
Don't forget your inner Neanderthal.
There's a big difference between being proud of one's "native american heritage", whatever tiny percentage that may be, and identifying one's lily white self on official government forms as an American Indian. Can anyone honestly say they believe she did that for honorable reasons?
This is the left's version of Stolen Valor in which a person claims the benefits of being an oppressed class without suffering any of the oppression.
What if everyone checks the Native American box on the 2020 Census?
I was an Esquimau in college, but I think from now on I'll check the "Spartacus" box.
tim in vermont said...
"That black person is not a Harvard Law prof right now."
What the World needs most of all, is a smaller violin.
Bears pointing out that there is tension within the American Indian tribes as to whether DNA should be done at all, with the consensus largely being no. I strongly suspect it's because extensive testing would undermine many current and historical claims.
If Warren actually thought she was a "Native American", she would have joined the "Native American" groups at her college. At her law school. She would have agreed to mentor Native American students at Penn and at Harvard. Instead, they asked her to talk to them, and she blew them off.
Stop trying to makes excuses for her: she's an amoral weasel who lied about her background for academic advantage.
Back in the 70s, the son of family friends applied for admission to Cornell. As he was born in Puerto Rico, he put down Puerto Rico as his place of birth. The Cornell Engineering School offered him a full scholarship sight unseen.
His father had gotten a job in Puerto Rico. His parents were unequivocally non-Hispanic whites. No Hispanic surnames, either.
As he didn't to become an engineer, he turned down the offer of admission.
"By the way, I don't believe Warren has apologized for holding herself out as a person with Native American ancestry and accepting the advantages that flowed from that self-identification." Not only has she not apologized, she hasn't acknowledged that she ever did it.
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