January 2, 2019

"Whether the speaker is a drawling Spacey in character as a secretly homicidal sociopath or a comedian who styled himself as a postmillennial cross between John Cassavetes and Alan Alda..."

"... while he was whipping it out every chance he got, a horrible truth still emerges. These types of guys thrive on attention, and if they can’t get the positive kind, they’ll settle for the negative. 'Oh, sure, they’ve tried to separate us,' Spaceywood said, inadvertently speaking for Louis C.K. as he emerged from his alt-right chrysalis and flapped his moth wings in Levittown. 'But what we have is too strong. It’s too powerful.' Unless it isn’t. This concludes the last thing I’ll ever write about Kevin Spacey or Louis C.K., until they’re sentenced in courts of law, or I have to write their obituaries."

Writes Matt Zoller Seitz in "The Real Louis C.K. Is Finally Standing Up" (The Vulture). So he's saying that even if there are court proceedings, including trials with witness testimony and announcements of jury verdicts, he won't write a word? He'll wait for the sentencing stage?

The idea is that Spacey and C.K. just want attention, so don't feed them, or you're part of the problem. I remember when I tried that with Trump. But silence is not like yelling. One person's silence only enhances the speech opportunities of other people. Yelling, you might drown other people out, but shutting up doesn't work like that.

50 comments:

rhhardin said...

He's a #MeToo groupie.

Shouting Thomas said...

Hard to believe that gay guys are joining in the feigned prudery and lawsuit racket.

Grabbing dick in public used to be a gay guy badge of honor. That was gay male social life back in the day.

I guess Althouse's campaign to turn gay guys into boring husbands and hausfraus is taking root.

Alternatively, somebody just smells money available for the taking.

rhhardin said...

I'd suggest if it's a crime at the time, prosecute it at the time. Otherwise it's a recovered memory seasoned with grudges, greed and narcissism, in other words #MeToo.

rhhardin said...

Maybe #MeToo is meant to appeal to women and gays. A life of feelings.

Henry said...

Breaking news: Celebrities thrive on attention.

MadisonMan said...

It the seeking of attention sweepstakes, it seems that Zoller Seitz and Louis C. K. are two peas in a pod.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

The left are not offended by bad behavior in the sex dept. *See Bill Clinton.

The left are offended if you might be what they term "alt right".

M Jordan said...

So CK is alt-right now? Nah. I think it’s more the comedy embargo imposed by Obama mixed with the twitter demon hordes that are causing some comedians to snap. So many good jokes out there waiting to be picked like low-hanging fruit but a demon horde surrounding the orchard. If enough comedians start secretly snatching some of these fruits, the horde will finally be exposed and sent running. We can hope, right?

Xmas said...

I listened to the bootleg of his new set. It was funny. The bits that are getting all the attentio (e.g. 'All you did was push a fat kid in the way.') aren't even the best parts of the act.

Also, it's obviously all work in progress. Most of it is stuff tried out for the first time in front of an audience.

SDaly said...

Fun fact: Seitz married his deceased wife's sister. As a film critic, Seitz depends upon the public actually caring about films and Hollywood. Drawing attention to Spacey, and his sociopathic assaults on young actors and others, turns normies off from Hollywood. Drawing attention to Louis C.K., who is now anathema to the "woke" crowd, sours them on the entertainment industry.

I'm sure that Seitz has heard plenty of stories of abuse that he has not pursued or revealed, because silence keeps his bread buttered.

gilbar said...

Professor Althouse: are you advocating the heckler's veto?

gilbar said...

SDaly said... Fun fact: Seitz married his deceased wife's sister

according to Leviticus 18:18* relations with sister of wife, after she's dead are okay

Leviticus 18:18* Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

Balfegor said...

Re: Trump, I do think that if his opponents were more measured, and less hysterical about every single thing he tweets, they would be more effective. It's hard to pretend to be the "adult in the room" when you'rr constantly throwing fits like a toddler. Trump isn't even trying (he jokes about how being "presidential" would be boring), and his opponents just aren't going to beat him at that game.

Shouting Thomas said...

In the 80s and 90s, in NYC and SF, the gay theatrical groups that I patronized were decimated by AIDS. A few literally were wiped out.

Reason?

The gay male acting profession (which is to say the entire male acting profession) orbits around the gay orgy/sex club scene. That's the place to make contacts and grease your way.

All my actor friends/acquaintances at the time professed to be enthusiastic participants.

On the other hand, you sure as hell weren't going anywhere in that world if you didn't express enthusiasm and jump in the pit.

MD Greene said...

Context from M Jordan and Balfegor in this emotion-drenched moment.

--"So many good jokes out there waiting to be picked like low-hanging fruit but a demon horde surrounding the orchard."

--"It's hard to pretend to be the "adult in the room" when you're constantly throwing fits like a toddler."


Unknown said...

Matt knows the world won't get far without his voice on Spacey and CK. We are all burning to hear his recitation of truth, the arc of history, and coincidentally majority liberal opinion.

Laslo Spatula said...

"This concludes the last thing I’ll ever write about Kevin Spacey or Louis C.K., until they’re sentenced in courts of law, or I have to write their obituaries."

A good start, that.

More of our current writers need to write less.

Much less.

As someone once said: "Better than nothing is a high standard" .

I am Laslo.

dbp said...

I am pretty sure this is the first time I have heard of Mr. Matt Zoller Seitz. I am not sure why I should care if he writes about Luis CK or Kevin Spacey.

But okay, note to self: If I am looking for information about Louis CK or Kevin Spacey, don't go looking at wherever site Mr. Matt Zoller Seitz posts his writing.

Chris N said...

So, a comedian performing for some 30 years, climbing near the top of his profession, often humorously discusses acting depraved on stage and at some point acts depraved in front some of younger women and gets banished by mostly unreasonable, mob-joining moral idiots?

Then after a year’s banishment he starts performing again?

Then some guy writes about how to think and what to feel about his performing again?

Amadeus 48 said...

Sounds like Matt Zoller Seitz wants some attention. Who he?

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

CK is alt-right now? The Left can't own their shit.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

If the tip of your big toe wanders into mind-crime area, the left will label you "alt right".

KKKamala leads that way with her comparisons of Immigration and Customs agents to the KKK.

rcocean said...

Just wants attention? Sorry. Nobody goes: "Hey, sure I'm unemployed, barraged by sexual harassment law suits, and facing possible prison time - BUT its all good because People are talking about me"

The fact is Matt Zits, is dumb hard-core Lefty who supported Polanski and doesn't want to talk about his fellow Industry Lefties getting in Sex problems. Why? It gives support to the Right Wing. That's how these people think. C.K. and Spacey's sex problems were well-known for years, but Zits kept silent, just like he kept silent about Weinstein.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

In the era of SJW snowflake, leftwing mind-crime police, speech codes, and the laundry list of delicate no-no subjects - pretty soon we will only have leftwing democratic comedy.

See: Late Nite TV.

rehajm said...

A good start, that.

My thought was: now do movies.

rehajm said...

I do think that if his opponents were more measured, and less hysterical about every single thing he tweets, they would be more effective. It's hard to pretend to be the "adult in the room" when you'rr constantly throwing fits like a toddler.

Theory: That is why Trump does it.

Nonapod said...

Of course in reality Louis C.K. is probably about as "Alt Right" as the writer of this piece. I'm sure in his heart or hearts Louis C.K. remains politically fairly liberal, it's just that that certain elements of that tribe no longer want to be associated with him.

The reason Louis C.K. is pushing certain boundries with his new set is partially because he has nothing to lose and partially because that's basically what he's always done. You could argue that it's calculated, and it clearly is. But at the same time, what choice does he have? He was publically humiliated. So he repented his sins. He's served a kind of penance of being out of the limelight for a time. He has most likely lost millions of dollars in various deals, lost opportunities and the like. And it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be able to re-ascend to the heights of fame and fortune that he once enjoyed.

But maybe all that isn't enough for what he did, I don't know. I'm a pretty bad judge of how to punish people in those sorts of situations. All I know is, if people still find him funny and he isn't ruining lives and is no longer sexually traumatizing people in some way, it seems a bit much to insist that he not be allowed to try to pick up the pieces.

As for Spacey, that guy seems a bit more predatory rather than just sort of pathetically perverted like Louis C.K. Just my impression.

Leslie Graves said...

I have zero idea how to tackle the age-old problem of people who have power/status/money/prestige preying on the sexually vulnerable.


But fortunately, we have pundits to figure it all out.

Nonapod said...

In other news of liberal apostates, word is that Kanye is gonna be doing Joe Rogan's podcast soon. No matter what it seems sure to be very entertaining.

chillblaine said...

He's right, this is attention-seeking behavior. This is a process. And the writer would not be comfortable living in Louis CK's skin and not being able to be expressive, for that writer, thinking up dreary passages is enough. nope

chillblaine said...

bumping my Cohaagen 'gets all of the blame, gets none of the credit,' routine, this is probably going to be my standup bit, if they accept

Cohaagen: Did He Deserve To Have His Eyeballs Sucked Out By The Vacuum Of Space. Did he deserve it. Did he have it comin'

Virgil Hilts said...

I think if I was over 45 and lived my entire life in movie/enteratinment industry I would avoid all of this #MeToo/#HeToo (Spacey victims) virtue signalling. I'm convinced that per Scott Rosenberg "Everybody Fucking knew" about Weinstein, and nobody did, said or wrote anything about it. I imagine Ebert & Siskel both knew, and I'd bet good $ that Zoller Seitz knew and never wrote about it (if he did, I apologize in advance). And I don't blame these people for not committing career suicide by trying to make public the crimes of HW. But I think it's pretty disgusting to now and try and virtue signal by loudly and publicly kicking already downed dogs like Spacey and Louis CK. Zoller Seitz comes off as an asshole. Also, I keep wondering if "everyone knew" about Spacey as well.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Indeed, Virgil Hilts. Good points about how most of Hollywood ignored what they knew about Harvey Weistein. The left use selective outrage to cover their tracks.

Ralph L said...

From the court proceeding, Spacey had his hand in the guy's pants for 3 minutes before he did something about it. Sounds like a shakedown. Also, Spacey needs a lesson in handjobs.

Leland said...

Oddly, if Matt Zoller Seitz wasn't writing about Spacey or C.K.; I wouldn't know Matt existed. That doesn't bode well for the writer if he is choosing to no longer write about them. I don't even like Spacey or C.K. I never watched House of Cards and I tried once watching a C.K. comedy show but didn't make it 30 minutes before searching for some else.

Virgil Hilts said...

Turns out (suprise!) everyone did know about KS. https://deadline.com/2017/11/parks-and-recreation-mike-schur-kevin-spacey-1202211712/
“If you think everybody knew about Louis (C.K.), everybody knew about Kevin Spacey,” Schur said, speaking on a panel. . “I remember very distinctly being like, he’s hitting on the pages and he’s hitting on the young men in the talent department. You talk about open secret, it’s the most open secret that’s ever existed. I didn’t know maybe the extent to which the behavior was predatory.” However,... everyone was aware of Spacey’s issues. “No one didn’t know,” he said." More re KS - https://www.michigandaily.com/section/arts/film-column-harvey-weinstein-kevin-spacey

SGT Ted said...

Its just bullshit PC virtue signaling. They like "transgressive" comedy, as long as it comports with their politics.

robother said...

Matt Zoller Seitz just got himself disinvited from the Kevin Spacey funeral. These Hollywood actor-critic wars are a lot like listening to kids ignoring each other in the back seat of a long road trip.

William said...

Did any of the executives at Enron or those involved with Bernie Madoff have such complicated sex lives? There's something about the entertainment industry (and that includes broadcast journalism) that attracts these people.......The Catholic Church seems to attract an inordinate number of men who wish to abuse choir boys. You'd think they would keep that fact in mind when recruiting priests, but they seem to have adapted rules that actually enhance the possibility of recruiting such people. Something like that goes on in the entertainment industry. When there's this many scandals, you have to wonder if the whole point of the industry isn't sexual exploitation. Tell the pretty boys and girls that we're creating art and you can get them to do anything. Tell the little boys that I'm God's representative and that this is God's will--that also works, but only on the very young. Ars gratia ass works better on young adults.

MayBee said...

If a woman did what CK did and we tried to lock her out of society for it, we'd be accused of slut shaming.

MayBee said...

also.
Alt-right?

FullMoon said...

Ralph L said... [hush]​[hide comment]

From the court proceeding, Spacey had his hand in the guy's pants for 3 minutes before he did something about it. Sounds like a shakedown. Also, Spacey needs a lesson in handjobs.


When you're a celebrity, they let you do anything, grab 'em by the balls..

Brian McKim and/or Traci Skene said...

This clown thinks his words mean so much that his silence might mean even more.

stevew said...

Boycotts rarely work.

Scott M said...

What did LCK do that was so horrible again? I saw someone yesterday claim he was cast aside for assault, but all I remember is him giving himself a five finger discount in front of a couple of women, in his hotel room...and didn't they say, "sure, go ahead?"

If it's down to a boss asking a subordinate, or a cop asking a traffic-stopped driver, or something where there's a clear power hierarchy, that's one thing. LCK screwed up because he said, "The power I had over these women is that they admired me" which is very, very weak tea.

So...a performer, an artist, of any kind can no longer have any sort of sexual encounter with a fan? Really?

SDaly said...

Here is a fascinating article, with comments by movie critics, on Roman Polanski. Seitz makes several comments, but doesn't bother to mention Polanski's drugging, raping and sodomizing a 13 year old girl. (I'm sure if Polanski was "Alt-Right", Seitz would notice that little flaw in Polanski's character.)

In fact, only one commenter mentions Polanski's actions disapprovingly. There is a cameo appearance by the detestable David Ehrenstein (recently in the news), who paints Polanski as the victim(!) of a "Honey Trap."

Yes, everyone in Hollywood knew about Spacey, including Seitz. Sheesh, I knew it, from skimming Crazy Days and Nights every once in a while over the years before he was exposed publicly.

Unknown said...

I know Kevin Spacey's been charged, but, even considering all the allegations out there about him, I do still want to see the evidence/verdict. I'm skeptical of #MeToo, as it seems very politically/emotionally charged rather than fact-based.

I like facts.

Big Mike said...

I like Jim Treacher has written about Louis CK.

Gahrie said...

If a woman did what CK did and we tried to lock her out of society for it, we'd be accused of slut shaming.

If she did it in front of men, pretty much no one would complain.

Nichevo said...

So...a performer, an artist, of any kind can no longer have any sort of sexual encounter with a fan? Really?

1/2/19, 11:50 AM


Think about this. Who but a blockhead ever went into the Arts, certainly the modern popular Performing Arts, without the intention of attracting women? What's the number one rationale used to encourage reluctant boys to study music or dancing? "Girls love that stuff."

So yes, if we are to learn that these vocations were immoral because they would lead to leveraging of skills and talents too, I suppose, Prey Upon Women, that seems to offer a big possible deterrent to the future industry, and even the recreational activity, as dancers and artists may be seen as embryonic abusers and their very forms exploitative. Eventually artists and writers will feel the pinch. I'm sure lawyers will escape somehow.