December 14, 2018

"Even the olds don’t want the olds to run for president!"

Writes Peter Hamby in "'THEY’RE ALL TOO OLD': DEMOCRATS FACE A GENERATIONAL RECKONING/The choice in the 2020 primary ultimately comes down to one thing: who is best prepared to beat Trump at a time when Trump owns the culture? Someone who actually understands culture would be a start" (Vanity Fair).

Is "olds" an unacceptable, ageist slur? It doesn't bother me, and I'm old. I think it's important to say "old" and not act like there's something bad about it, but making the adjective a noun might be offensive.

58 comments:

Ignorance is Bliss said...

...who is best prepared to beat Trump at a time when Trump owns the culture? Someone who actually understands culture would be a start

Trump owns the culture because he understands the culture. And he is an old. Premise fail. Sad!

Henry said...

Democrats are in better position than their sorry-ass list of has-been former candidates represents. They have a bunch of new Governors and young Representatives. Look that way for 2020.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The time is now for the fake Hispanic.

tcrosse said...

The stupids get to choose.

Wince said...

So the old rocker gets out his bike
To make a ton before he takes his leave...


Always liked this apt song and entertaining video by Jethro Tull (1976).

Too Old to Rock and Roll (Too Young to Die)

The old rocker wore his hair too long
Wore his trouser cuffs too tight
Unfashionable to the end drank his ale too light

Death's head belts buckle, yesterday's dreams
The transport caf' prophet of doom
Ringing no change in his double sewn seams
In his post-war babe gloom

Now he's too old to rock 'n' roll
But he's too young to die
Yes, he's too old to rock 'n' roll
But he's too young to die

He once owned a Harley Davidson
And a triumph Bonneville
Counted his friends in burned out spark plugs
And prays that he always will

But he's the last of the blue blood greasers boys
And all of his mates are doing time
Married with three kids up by the ring road
Sold their souls straight down the line
And some of them own little sports cars
And meet at the tennis club do's
For drinks on a Sunday, work on Monday
They've thrown away their blue suede shoes

So the old rocker gets out his bike
To make a ton before he takes his leave
Up on the A1 by Scotch Corner
Just like it used to be
And as he flies, tears in his eyes
His wind-whipped words echo the final take
And he hits the trunk road doing around a 120
With no room left to brake

No, you're never too old to rock 'n' roll
If you're too young to die
No, you're never too old to rock 'n' roll
But he was too young to die

gilbar said...

VOX says that we (by hook or by crook,) need to remove the age restriction (and the citizenship restriction) from the Presidency
Not Lower it: REMOVE IT

VOX wants Ocasio Cortez to be President!
VOX wants a 9 year old Honduran refugee to be President!
VOX is tired of the olds!

iowan2 said...

I too am proud to be old. I am of the same era, and circumstance as our host. Age wise, both retired from a life long career within a year of each other. While I have a couple part-time gigs working 20 to 40 hours a week, setting my own schedule, working from home, and traveling part of the state. Our Host is out pursuing her hobbies she developed. Something I was too busy to develop(or didn't prioritize my time better)
But I like the knowledge and wisdom the years have given me. It's a great time to be OLD!

As far as the Democrats and picking the leadership. Their actions fly in the face of their rhetoric Their actions prove that their energy is spent amassing power, and control. Not advancing an agenda. Don't need to be 80 to advance an agenda. But when you're 80 and already have money, power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. 35 to 50 year olds havent been infected with the power bug...yet. The border debate is a prime example. Dems say they want to secure the border, but have no interest, or plan to do so. They keep saying there are better, cheaper ways, never mention any specifics. The Oval office theater was great. Dems investing their political capital in illegal aliens, President Trump working hard for what the American People want. Stark contrast in the priorities of Democrats,(aliens) and President Trump (citizens).

rcocean said...

Hemingway called those killed in WW 2, "deads".

Better an olds than a deads.

rcocean said...

It is bizarre that peeps are talking about Hillary or Biden or Bernie Saunders running 2020.

Democrats need a new face.

What about Satan?

wild chicken said...

Bragging aside, mid 50s is the ideal age range imo.

But that's not everything is it

Abdul Abulbul Amir said...

No matter what you say it will be offensive to someone somewhere. However, it is ok to offend the deplorable but not the anointed.

Nonapod said...

Something like one third of House Members are senior citizens (at or over the age of 65). Half of the Senate are also. 16 of the 50 current governers are senior citizens (which is about a 3rd). And of course so is our President.

The average age of CEOs has been creeping up.

Our society is basically a gerontocracy. Being old is probably generally more of a positive when it comes to aquiring power.

Leland said...

It is Vanity Fair. By culture, they mean NY (upstate/long island), DC, and California. Everybody else is uncouth.

RK said...

I'm almost 60 and the world's biggest ageist, so I don't complain about other people's ageism. Bring it on!

Maillard Reactionary said...

Speaking as a member of the Professor's general age group, the use of "old" to describe people does not bother me either, except when misused as a noun, which is an offense against the English language. I do have a problem with that.

eric said...

I can't read this stuff anymore without thinking "Fake news!"

After seeing what the DNC did during the last primary, it all seems fake to me.


Beto staffer: I've got some friends in the media who are willing to help us out.
Beto: Great! Let's go with the old and tired vs young and filled with energy theme.
Beto staffer: Yessir!
Beto staffer: Hi, this is Karen from the Beto for President campaign. We were just talking about how young and vigorous and totally in sync with today's culture Beto is.
Media: Got it. Beto is young. All the other Dems are old. Writing the story now!


I don't see any of this stuff as real anymore.

And I'm not sure I'm happy about it.

Fernandinande said...

except when misused as a noun, which is an offense against the English language.

The correct grammar would be "Even the old don’t want the old to run for president!"

Jupiter said...

Nonapod said...

"The average age of CEOs has been creeping up.

Our society is basically a gerontocracy."

I think it is more the case that when a society extends adolescence well into the fourth decade of life, the adults in the room are necessarily going to be somewhat the worse for wear.

Mountain Maven said...

Dems have pushed aside the reasonable and moderate pols. Mark Warner, umm. Maybe that's it.
You have to be a statist faux revolutionary to run now. Except Biden who runs on his name.

Beach Brutus said...

How can "olds" be offensive to a generation for whom the catch phrase was once "don't trust anyone over thirty"?

The Godfather said...

Rather than the "olds", I prefer the "old farts". It's how I think about myself.

None of the Democrats' old farts ought to be President. Neither should Robert Francis, who's just a middle-aged fart.

PM said...

Ageism is a fancy word for the oldest story in the book: Youth vs Elders.
The Boomer Bubble keeps leaking air and will soon fly around the room backwards.

Howard said...

Boomers are too religiously partisan. We need a Gen-X war vet nominee

Kevin said...

If you want to know what people really think, ask them what the whole ticket looks like.

Beto + ?

Ocasio-Cortez + ?

Generally the Veep choice is someone like Sherrod Brown or John Hickenlooper, someone like Biden for Obama to show the youngster the ropes and provide some gravitas. Someone with "serious policy chops" who does the work behind the pretty face.

It's then you know how seriously they really take some of the names being thrown around as more than packaging and signaling.

Jupiter said...

But that's a good thing. The massive self-indulgence of our society, including allowing young people to spend a couple decades "finding themselves", is only possible because we have been so successful economically that we can afford to have huge numbers of totally unproductive people, mooing about and imagining their own importance, while the competent few keep the wheels turning. However, we have not significantly extended the period of women's fertility. The old cannot relieve young women of the task of having babies.

Kevin said...

“If kids ran the world,” this warmhearted manifesto begins, “we would make it a kinder, better place.” Seen against a bright white backdrop, a troupe of children in a rainbow of colors swarms through a flower garden, trimming, watering, and digging. “We’d take care of the most important things,” the children say. “We know people are hungry, so all over the world, everyone would have enough to eat.” They bring barrows and baskets full of delicious food to a banquet table. “Everyone would have a safe place to live.... Friendship, kindness and generosity would be worth more than money."

If Kids Ran the World, by Leo and Diane Dillon.

It's available at Amazon and is only 32 pages long, because Kids = TLDR...

Wince said...

The Godfather said...
Rather than the "olds", I prefer the "old farts". It's how I think about myself.


"Will that give you satisfaction, my son? Killing a helpless old fart?"

Clyde said...

"Trump owns the culture"?!?!?! Seriously, every organ of mainstream culture is in the hands of Trump's enemies, and being vigorously stroked by them.

Clyde said...

Not intentionally continuing Laslo's bukkake reference, but there it is...

bagoh20 said...


Blogger Clyde said...
"Trump owns the culture"?!?!?! Seriously, every organ of mainstream culture is in the hands of Trump's enemies, and being vigorously stroked by them.

Obviously, so why do people say the opposite?

It's a war with all the institutions of culture against half the people of the country who are far more individualistic and self-sufficient than the other half who need to be part of these larger things to survive. Large powerful institutions and their slaves against free citizens making their own way. Trump is simply the leader of the deplorables, and he's standing at the front with the enemy all taking pot shots hoping to get lucky and be the hero of the Borg. Even if Trump goes down, the rest of us will still be here, but then we'll actually become the angry people we are falsely called now.

Francisco D said...

My 84 year-old mother uses the Yiddish term "alte kacker" to describe fussy old men. There is probably a similar term for old ladies

Politics has become the battleground between the alte kackers and the young socialists whose brains have turned to mush with our overly political educational system.

Fernandinande said...

"She said comedy would not serve as a defence."

sdharms said...

Kevin, you stated, "Generally the Veep choice is someone like Sherrod Brown or John Hickenlooper, someone like Biden for Obama to show the youngster the ropes and provide some gravitas. Someone with "serious policy chops" who does the work behind the pretty face."
Do you honestly think Sherrod Brown or Hickenlooper (Hickenstupid) have serious policy chops?
Hicken has presided over a disaster of MJ legalization in CO. Brown is nothing but a swamp creature. How rich has he become in DC? Please Dems nominate these two. Verified potential losers.

Leora said...

I like it better than the elderly. It's stronger.

Kevin said...

Do you honestly think Sherrod Brown or Hickenlooper (Hickenstupid) have serious policy chops?

No, but the people advocating they be part of the ticket do.

traditionalguy said...

He is getting older and older, but Clint Eastwood still makes the best movies

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Vox is Matt Eglasias - a total loser.

tim maguire said...

How old am I? When I saw "olds," my first thought was "Oldsmobile."

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Someone is going to run against Trump.

I'd prefer it be someone who is the least crazy and the least corrupt and the least leftwing.

The left want corrupt, crazy and leftwing.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Hickenloopper was not on board with pot legalization in CO, actually. He had no choice because the voters voted.

tim maguire said...

Kevin said...
“If kids ran the world,” this warmhearted manifesto begins,


It would be Lord of the FLies

narciso said...

Or wild in the streets is that too obscure a reference?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Folks - the least crazy leftwinger would be Hickenlooper. Stop worrying about him. He's not leftwing enough and he probably won't get anywhere. He's also not good-looking enough for the shallow left. They want Kennedy-Bob cuz he's young and cute.

They want Occasional Cortex because she's utterly clueless and malleable, in the right shade of red lipstick.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The Democrat field is full of old 1960's hold-overs. Trump is old too.

The difference is that while the Democrats are still using the tired old rhetoric and play book of their youth. Still stuck in the 60's, Trump is more forward looking and wants to try to use new systems and definitely is NOT using a tired old playbook. Whether it is good or bad, or whether you like it or not....it is different. Different is better than what we have been using (IMO) and why Trump appeals That and the fact that he speaks the language of the "common" deplorables.

Even the new young faces of the Democrat party are still mired in the socialist rhetoric and long for the collective. Offering old solutions that have never worked and blatantly espousing curbs on our freedom. Spouting the same, worn out talking points.


n.n said...

Do the youngs want youngs? Do the fats want fats?

It's diversity or color judgement, normalized, that paints people with broad, sweeping strokes, independent of principles, character, and expression. Diversity is a tool of establishment factions to marginalize competing interests, to deny individual, human dignity, and classify and divide "Persons" (and persons) in colorful, manageable clusters.

chuck said...

My updated motto is "Don't trust anyone over eighty".

David in Cal said...

I would not vote for myself as President, even though I agree with myself on every issue. At age 76 I do not have the stamina for the job.

stlcdr said...

Take away a young whippersnapper’s smart phone and see how far they get.

n.n said...

Anyone over eighty mm must be considered suspect. Anyone over eighty cm may be presumed to have sinned.

Ralph L said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DavidD said...

“Is ‘olds’ an unacceptable, ageist slur?”

Just call them (er, us) “grups”.

tcrosse said...

We should decide whether we're selecting a Chief Executive for the US Government or someone to play the President on the West Wing.

narciso said...

back when chris buckley had not fallen head over heals from Obama, he had a roman a clef, supreme courtship, which featured a sniveling biden/leahy type named dexter Mitchell who had sandbagged every nominee of a McCain manqué named Vanderpool, despite that Mitchell wanted to be president, but had no real talent or charisma, so he was cast on a soap as a president with a sultry eva mendez type as first lady,

Maillard Reactionary said...

Fernandinstein @10:36-- Agreed! What you've referred to is a rhetorical device in which an adjective is used to refer to a group with the actual noun implied rather than explicitly stated (often, that noun would be "men" or "people"). There are many examples of this-- the dead, the rich, the obese, etc. In fact you can use this technique alone to make a pretty good movie title (ask Sergio Leone).

There is probably a Greek word for this device from classical rhetoric. I hope that one of our more classically-educated commenters will be able to educate us on it (lest we be guilty of a solecism, or worse).

walter said...

A more standard route in context would be "older voters" and "older candidates".

n.n said... Do the youngs want youngs? Do the fats want fats?
--
Hey now..there ya go substituting variables to shine perspective.
Shame on you for such "old" school thinking.

But if these were..there could be "the trans fats"...entirely flummoxing Bloomberg.

glenn said...

The current generation of Dem leadership will be rolling onto the stage at a The 2032 convention on their RideAlongs (free if you qualify) waving signs saying stuff like “Vote for me and I’ll give you some of his” or “Vote for me and I’ll give you more of his”. Count on it.

Bunkypotatohead said...

I'm gonna enjoy watching President Beto and VP Cortez explain to their millenial supporters how their taxes will need to be increased to cover the Social Security, Medicare,and gov't pension payouts to us old white men.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Michael McNeil said...

However, we have not significantly extended the period of women's fertility.

Using her original, now-aging eggs, that's true. What we have recently accomplished, however, is learn that 1) stem cells exist; 2) stem cells can be made (grown) from ordinary (old!) body cells; and 3) stem calls can make (grow into) new, (young!) eggs — and sperm. So, using this technology, out of her own cells (and DNA) a woman could grow new eggs (as well as sperm! — presumably only X-chromosome-containing sperm) for herself; and a man could grow new sperm (and eggs!) — of either variety — for himself.

This article from Nature some years back describes the original discovery — in mice; since then the corresponding (egg/sperm-growing) stem cells have been found to also exist in humans.