The analysis on the Massachusetts Democrat was done by Stanford University professor Carlos D. Bustamante. He concluded Warren’s ancestry is mostly European but says “the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor.”I don't think you should be checking the box and allowing Harvard to claim to have a Native American professor based on 1/32 or 1/512, but I like that Warren has removed the basis for inferring that she won't get the test because she knows she's been lying. On the other hand, we're only hearing about the test after the results are in and the results are of some use to her in quieting those who'd say why doesn't she get a DNA test.
Bustamante, a prominent expert in the field of DNA analysis, determined Warren’s pure Native American ancestor appears “in the range of six to 10 generations ago.”
That meshes with an 1894 document the New England Genealogical Society unearthed suggesting Warren’s great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American. That would make Warren 1/32nd Native American.
But if her ancestor is 10 generations back, that could mean she’s just 1/512th Native American, according to the report. That could further excite her critics instead of placating them.
I wish she'd never gotten herself into this predicament, because I think demanding to know someone's race or ethnicity is something we shouldn't see any need for. I'm glad we can stop demanding that of her.
Unless you don't trust Stanford University professor Carlos D. Bustamante and want a second opinion. I wouldn't recommend that.
UPDATE: The text at the AP link is so changed now! It bears almost no resemblance to what I quoted above. So annoying! It begins:
Sen. Elizabeth Warren on Monday released the results of a DNA analysis that she said indicated she has some Native American heritage, a direct rebuttal to President Donald Trump, who has long mocked her ancestral claims and repeatedly referred to her as “Pocahontas.”1/1,024th, not 1/512th anymore. And not the reference to the million-dollar challenge. There's no link to the video, which I'm examining in a new post that will be up soon.
The Massachusetts Democrat and potential 2020 presidential contender challenged Trump to make good on his pledge to donate $1 million to charity if she provided proof of Native American heritage, a moment that was caught on video. Trump falsely denied ever making the offer.
The analysis was done by Stanford University professor Carlos D. Bustamante, a prominent expert in the field. He concluded that the great majority of Warren’s ancestry is European but added that the results “strongly support” the existence of a Native American ancestor.
In his report , Bustamante said he analyzed Warren’s sample without knowing the identity of the donor. He concluded that Warren’s pure Native American ancestor likely lived six to 10 generations ago, and that it was impossible to determine the individual’s tribal connection.
If Warren’s Native American ancestry were six generations removed, it could mesh with an 1894 document the New England Genealogical Society previously unearthed suggesting Warren’s great-great-great-grandmother, O.C. Sarah Smith, was at least partially Native American, making Warren 1/32nd Native American.
The Boston Globe, which first reported the results of the DNA analysis, noted that if Warren’s ancestor were 10 generations removed, she would be only 1/1,024th Native American. Such a finding could potentially further excite her critics instead of placating them.
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251 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 251 of 251John Lynch said:
Maybe my half-Korean son should be checking the "Native American" box when it's time for college.
Too late. Years ago Harvard, among others, began requiring proof in the form of tribal affiliation, not blood tests.
The effect was no doubt similar to the one when the IRS began requiring SSNs of dependants claimed on tax filings; millions of children disappeared the next year.
If she had used one of the DNA tests that one can get in the mail, she would’ve been criticized for that too.
Inga the fool doesn't know that not only 23&me has a DNA test but so does Ancestry.com.
I have used both to see how they compare and they are pretty consistent.
But we were advised to put them down as "white" for UC purposes as they were not culturally Mexican. Not that being Mexican would have done them any good.
A friend of mine, who grew up in Cuba until his parents sent him to relatives in Florida, and who spent a couple of years in an orphanage when they could not escape, applied to UCSF medical school.
He did not hear anything for months and finally drove to SF to check with the admissions office. They told him his application was in the "Hispanic committee." Not knowing what criteria they might be using, he asked if he could just be considered "white," as he had not claimed any preference on the application. They allowed him to do so and he was accepted a week or two later.
Your kids were better off not being considered that way unless they had a history of Azteca activism or something.
As I understand it, Warren probably didn’t use her claimed Cherokee ancestry until she had been hired as a law school professor. The issue apparently is that professors, in general, mostly get hired at equivalently or lower ranked schools in their field. So, she appears to have started her teaching career at a lower ranked law school than the one she graduated from. Which happens more times than not. They almost never start at a higher ranking school. To advance to a higher ranking school normally requires superior research and writing (for most faculty, it requires superior levels of such to even get back to the level of the school they graduated from). The problem though for her is that her research and writing was apparently mediocre. Clearly, not up to Harvard level (even if she had graduated from there or an equivalently ranked law school, which she hadn’t). Running into that wall appears to have been when she discovered her Cherokee ancestry. And it was their ability to mark the “Native American” box for their faculty, that caused multiple law schools to overlook her lower ranked law school graduation and mediocre publication record, as she moved up to higher and higher ranked schools. The faculty at Harvard Law School is filled with Harvard and Yale law grads, many of whom are leading lights in their specialties. Which is why it is highly unlikely that they would have given her application even a second look, if she had not supposedly been part Cherokee.
Igna cut and pasted;
"She was an academic star who could have been hired at pretty much any law school she wanted."
Funny how that worked out, isn't it. An academic star without any academic accomplishments. That's the problem with these affirmative action hires.
Whatever will these Trumpists do when she becomes President in 2020?
The same thing we did in 2016 when the Democrats nominated another equally unappealing liar.
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...”Warren Derangement Syndrome on full display today. Whatever will these Trumpists do when she becomes President in 2020?”
I’ll tell you some things I won’t do. I won’t put a prostrate hat on my head. I won’t claw at the Supreme Court doors. And I won’t bear false witness against somebody I knew in high school.
“Igna cut and pasted;"She was an academic star who could have been hired at pretty much any law school she wanted."”
Is that true? I thought she had a relatively undistinguished record, but I haven’t really looked into it.
Is that true? I thought she had a relatively undistinguished record, but I haven’t really looked into it.
She wrote an enormously flawed book that significantly overstated the impact of medical costs on personal bankruptcies. It was well-received by the people that accept shoddy work as long as it justifies more government power.
Oh, yeah. Thanks for reminding me Pookie.
Are high cheek bones passed down from the mother or the father?
“I’ll tell you some things I won’t do. I won’t put a prostrate hat on my head. I won’t claw at the Supreme Court doors. And I won’t bear false witness against somebody I knew in high school.”
No maybe you wouldn’t, but there are those that would do the same thing they did when Obama won the Presidency, they went out and bought huge bags of rice and beans and stored them in their garages, not even mentioning buying loads and loads of ammunition in anticipation of the collapse of society, lol. That hysteria was comical.
“Inga the fool doesn't know that not only 23&me has a DNA test but so does Ancestry.com.”
Michael the senile coot doesn’t realize most people know there are several DNA testing providers, besides Ancestry.com and 23&Me
My Heritage DNA
Living DNA
GPS Origins
Vitagene
Futura Genetics
How do you people know she hasn’t already used several of these companies? She probably knew full well that she would be accused of fixing the results from a private provider, despite the expert in DNA who doubtfully would besmirch his reputation by doing so. It’s common sense for those who still have any in the age of Trumpism
“She was not on the radar screen at all in terms of a racial minority hire," Randall, Kennedy, a law professor who was in charge of recruiting minority candidates to Harvard Law School, told the Globe. "It was just not an issue. I can't remember anybody ever mentioning her in this context."
The Globe reports that it examined hundreds of documents, many of them never before available, and talked to 31 law school professors from that period at Harvard. All but one said her Native American heritage was not discussed as part of the decision to hire her. One said he was unsure if the issue came up, but if it did, had no bearing on his vote.”
It is never wise to believe only one study without corroboration. It is never wise to believe something because someone is an expert, even legitimately, without proof of what the person says. There have been many wise men and women who professed something that in hindsight was embarrassing laughable, and many an honest man who proved to be less than honest when it was to his advantage.
This does feel very much like Warren kept having studies done until she got one that gave her something, however slim, that supported her position. Furthermore, what I read is all full of weasel words. So I agree with the report in the sense the report says basically nothing and I agree it says basically nothing. The worst thing about it is even if it is all true, it still does not support her claim of being a Native American in any meaningful sense.
The best part of this story is watching the media show massive (and probably coordinated) ignorance of genetics, statistics, politics, and reading comprehension, among other things. There is literally no reason to pay attention to them any more. They are idiots, fools, and stooges, the lot of them.
Sorry, Inga, but contemporaneous evidence beats self serving climbs:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2018/10/15/analysis-elizabeth-warrens-embarrassing-native-american-proof-n2528599
So in the 1970's and early 1980's, Warren self-identified as white. When did that change?
The emergence of the University of Texas form does not explain why Warren listed herself as a minority in a widely used Association of American law Schools directory from 1986 through 1995. Warren has said she was proud of her Native American heritage and that she was hoping to connect with “people like me.’’ The directory, however, did not list her as someone with Native American heritage. It simply said “minority.’’ Harvard Law School also touted Warren as a Native American in the Harvard Crimson when it was under fire for a lack of diversity on its faculty. Leonard P. Strickman, founding dean at Florida International University, one of the nation’s most diverse law schools, said deans often consult the Association of American Law Schools directory when seeking out minority applicants, but look more rigorously at scholarship before making hires.
She chose to list herself as a minority in this influential professional publication ("often consulted by hiring deans") in 1986. She was offered a teaching position Penn, an Ivy League institution, in early 1987. Imagine that. She then continued to 'check the box' through 1995, which happened to be the year that she received a tenured position at Harvard Law School. Warren and her defenders insist that this timing is coincidental and that her formalized self-description as a racial minority played no role in her jump into the Ivies -- even though both Penn and Harvard were under immense pressure to enhance faculty diversity at the time, and each subsequently touted her in literature as a minority. She has claimed she didn't even know they were celebrating her as a minority, but her story has evolved. That strains credulity. It becomes even more dubious when you consider her ludicrous explanation for why she suddenly dropped the "minority" posture after reaching the pinnacle of her career path at Harvard:
I don't care what Harvard claims they did
I care about what Warren actually did.
And what she did was claim minority status when she needed it, and dropped it as soon as she hit the pinnacle she was aiming for.
How do you people know she hasn’t already used several of these companies?
The fool does not understand that, if she did, there would be results being publicized.
The fool that believes Chrissy Ford thinks that Fauxcahontas went to a sketchy Stanford guy because it was easy.
“The fool does not understand that, if she did, there would be results being publicized.”
The senile coot doesn’t seem to understand that she might just publish them one by one, why should she show all her cards now?
(eaglebeak)
Cherokee aren't too thrilled about Warren's "results," apparently:
https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/15/elizabeth-warren-cherokee-nation-inappropriate/
“The fool that believes Chrissy Ford thinks that Fauxcahontas went to a sketchy Stanford guy because it was easy.”
Who? Are you referring to Althouse?
————————————
It kinds of makes me happy to see the level of angst you folks display over Warren. You know that she will win the Presidency, that’s why.
”No maybe you wouldn’t, but there are those that would do the same thing they did when Obama won the Presidency, they went out and bought huge bags of rice and beans and stored them in their garages, not even mentioning buying loads and loads of ammunition in anticipation of the collapse of society, lol. That hysteria was comical.”
IOW, they didn’t bother anybody.
And how many? How do you know? Smells like bullshit to me.
Elizabeth Warren's specialty was consumer bankruptcy. While her purported Native American ancestry could have helped her get the job at Harvard, the fact is that she already had an advantage because of her uncommon specialization. Looking at Harvard's faculty's publications, "consumer finance," is the area of the law that Harvard professors write about the least. The most common area of scholarly research is "Government & Politics," then "Disciplinary Perspectives & Law."
Can someone explain the 10 generations ago. that would put the most recent Indian relative earlier than the 1700's. Are we/she suggesting that far back?
It was never in question whether it is right that people with a certain blood should profit from it. The only question was whether Warren had it (and now, whether she has enough of it).
The intricacies of these DNA tests compete only with those of the fantastic genealogies people used to buy in the Middle Ages to accede to the aristocracy. And they cost similar amounts of money, too.
The system is meant to make people identify with their race, their ethnic group, their ancestry. As this scandal shows, nothing is more important than ancestry.
The system is working as intended. This is the new nobility.
OM, you live in Madison, of course you didn’t see any people doing this. I live in Waukesha County and yes I saw it and LMAO. One of them even said he wouldn’t fly the flag until Obama was gone.
Here's the crucial data:
(4) The sample was compared to the results of the 185 reference individuals with European ancestry,from Great Britain and Utah.
• The segment on chromosome 10 observed in the individual is larger than any of the segments
identified as having Native American ancestry in any of the 185 reference individuals.
• The total length of Native American segments observed in the individual is greater than the
average value for the reference individuals — by 12.4-fold (corresponding to 12.7 standard deviations) for the individuals from Great Britain and 10.5-fold (corresponding to 4.9 standard deviations) for the individuals from Utah.
Warren had a variation on Chromosome 10 which was characteristic of Native Americans. 185 individuals with European backgrounds were scanned in a way similar to how Warren was scanned. These individuals ALSO HAD VARIATIONS CHARACTERISTIC OF AMERICAN INDIANS "the segments
identified as having Native American ancestry in ... the 185 reference individuals". But Warren's segment of chromosome 10 was longer than that of any of the 185 European controls. And the total length of all the segments of Warren's DNA which were identified as Native American was 10X as long as the AVERAGE length of the total of Native American segments in the Europeans.
So there were many in the group of 185 who have no Native American ancestry but who have stretches of DNA similar to Native Americans. And there could be some who have almost as much "Native American" DNA as Warren. Warren's amount of "native American DNA" might be fairly common among some Europeans just as high cheekbones are common among Highland Scots and other Celtic groups.
"While her purported Native American ancestry could have helped her get the job at Harvard, the fact is that she already had an advantage because of her uncommon specialization."
This could cut both ways. Even really big and prestigious places may have preferred fields and blind spots. Being from a completely different area of specialization could work both for and against a candidate.
”OM, you live in Madison, of course you didn’t see any people doing this. I live in Waukesha County and yes I saw it and LMAO.”
Uh-huh
"The senile coot doesn’t seem to understand that she might just publish them one by one, why should she show all her cards now?"
And the Russian Collusion investigation is still ongoing. For you, the proof is always in the future. Sad.
Still, It's brilliant to lead with the weakest evidence. OTOH, if the mainline providers had found solid evidence, why spend the money, time, and effort to go to a guy who isn't even a geneticist, and whose database needed massaging because it is not even a fraction of the mainstream provider's.
Inga: "It kinds of makes me happy to see the level of angst you folks display over Warren. You know that she will win the Presidency, that’s why."
LOL
2016 never ever happened.
Inga and LKR Chuck have long forgotten
that one....
”And the Russian Collusion investigation is still ongoing. For you, the proof is always in the future. Sad.”
Nobody knows what Mueller knows, CWJ.
Later. Have to go watch the sun set over the lake.
wildswan,
I'm not sure I'm following. Are you saying that this is all based on the DNA of 185 reference individuals?
Maybe my half-Korean son should be checking the "Native American" box when it's time for college.
If he was born here, then he's native American.
OM,
Not even Mueller?
The Pope probably has that much Amerindian in him, yawn.
All this Indian ancestory talk reminded me of the Fort Mims massacre.
Wikipedia: "The Fort Mims massacre took place on August 30, 1813, during the Creek War, when a force of Creek Indians belonging to the Red Sticks faction, under the command of head warriors Peter McQueen and William Weatherford (also known as Lamochattee or Red Eagle), stormed the fort and defeated the militia garrison. Afterward, a massacre ensued and almost all of the remaining Creek métis, white settlers, and militia at Fort Mims were killed...."
The "Americans" included Euro-Americans, blacks free and enslaved and the Tensaw métis, a "half breed" Creek group. The militia leader at the fort was also a half-breed like William Weatherford.
This massacre blew the Creek War wide open and started the build-up of the Tennesee militia army that Andrew Jackson would take to New Orleans.
“The fool does not understand that, if she did, there would be results being publicized.”
The senile coot doesn’t seem to understand that she might just publish them one by one, why should she show all her cards now?
Hope springs eternal in the bedpan commando breast.
@Inga, Warren as the 2020 Democrat nominee = Trump winning at least 40 states. How do you not see that?
Why not enough native american DNA to test? After Kenniwick man and few other things, US Indians got all in a snit and have refused to give DNA samples.
Most of the US Indians did not get wiped out (except for by disease)--they intermarried. This was actually promoted by some chiefs who said it would prevent their extermination to intermarry. Some intermarried with blacks, most with whites. Why would this be surprising since it is what happened south of the border? So their genes got spread around and many whites have a tiny bit of Indian in them.
If Warren's native ancestor was 10 generations back, there would likely not be long segments of DNA from Indians--recombination breaks them up each generation. Likely a processing error.
The only democrat who helps Trump more than Warren is Hillary. I wish she would focus on helping to elect senators instead of advancing her soon to be stillborn presidential run.
https://permalinks.23andme.com/pdf/samplereport_ancestrycomp.pdf
they show detection limit of 1/1000 (0.1%) at 23&me. Warren probably got a non-detect from mail order services and had to get a professor to tease out the precious drops of Cherokee mojo that is below the radar.
@ Inga I will be astonished if a MA Democrat can win enough primaries to make it to the Democratic nomination. I don't think she checks enough of the Dem boxes - even if you accept her Indian heritage - to pass muster in the primaries. She may be viewed as the scourge of the big banks, but she is actually a Capitalist and that may not pass muster for 2020.
Here's the Crimson article identifying Warren as Native American. Harvard thought she was and obviously had that in her personnel file. Is it important? Not really. There's is as much, or more, proof that Warren gamed the Affirmative Action system as there is that Kavanaugh was a black-out drunk.
The Cherokee Nation has ripped her a new one. They are pissed.
Big Mike observes: The Cherokee Nation has ripped her a new one. They are pissed.
Indeed: "Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation," Hoskin continued. "Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."
Getting the Cherokee to publicly rebuke her isn't a wise PR move for Warren, because they are essentially saying "she is not one of us" and they probably have more authority on the matter than a scientist inferring that there is a single ancestor somewhere over a period of about 150 to 250 years before Warren was born, whom clearly neither Warren nor her parents and almost certainly her grandparents never knew personally.
What's surprising is that Warren continues to shred her reputation by sticking with this dubious identity claim that has repeatedly blown up in her face when she could easily have put it to bed years ago with one of those staged PR apology tours wherein she explains that one of her deceased relatives had misled her and it was all a big mistake and she's very sorry and here's a big check for some Cherokee initiative to make amends.
Much as Dr. King's dream is inspiring, modern Democrats obsess about gender and racial identity. The only time I ever had to ask people what their race was in the workplace was when Chairman Cuomo demanded that organizations receiving state funding do such a census and they'd better have a sufficient quota of minorities and women or risk losing their funding going forward. That is essentially the Democratic party platform - it does not matter whether the job is being done well or the community well-served, the only thing that matters is that the people doing the job are sufficiently diverse as defined by the party.
I wonder how many other people besides me mistook the Carlos Bustamante who performed the analysis on Warren’s DNA sample for the famous biophysicist of the same name at Berkeley? Is the confusion deliberate? Oh, of course not!
My grandfather on my mom's side was 100% Choctaw, my mom 50%, making me about 25%. I look very European, but tan really well :) .
That said I despise, no *hate*, the liberal's term, "native-American". I despise the "hyphenated-American" label on principle as divisive and harmful, but a "native" is per OED: "A person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not."
I was born in American. Choctaw blood, European, Black, Hispanic or any other blood or not, I'm a native American.
I am so done with this PC sh*t. Done.
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