October 11, 2018

"Michelle always says, 'When they go low, we go high.' No. No. When they go low, we kick them."

Said Eric Holder, quoted at WaPo in "'When they go low, we kick them': How Michelle Obama’s maxim morphed to fit angry and divided times." Morphed? It's not some kind of updating or evolution. It's the opposite. The only coherence comes from understanding that calls for civility are always bullshit — just a con to get the other side to stand down, because when you think incivility suits your interests, suddenly it's a good thing.
[Holder] said a more antagonistic spirit is “what this new Democratic Party is about,” adding, “We are proud as hell to be Democrats. We are willing to fight for the ideals of the Democratic Party.

He tried to clarify that he wasn’t calling for violence, saying later in his remarks, “I don’t mean we do anything inappropriate, we don’t do anything illegal, but we have to be tough and we have to fight.” A combative strategy, he said, would honor the legacy of civil rights leaders, such as Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) and Martin Luther King Jr.
Yeah, MLK had a "nonviolence" shtick but he would have morphed to fit angry and divided times — if only he hadn't been a victim of violence. But Holder says he is "honor[ing] the legacy" of MLK by getting "combative." Maybe MLK was only choosing a means to an end and didn't have high principles at all, but if so, at least he picked effective tactics. Holder isn't even doing that. The angry aggressive approach is failing. Look at the post-Kavanaugh-hearings polls.

The WaPo article also has the new Hillary Clinton quote (which we talked about yesterday here): "You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about."

It doesn't have the second part of her quote — "That's why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and or the Senate, that's when civility can start again" — which I credit for its humorous frankness. It's what I've been saying for years under my "civility bullshit" tag. In that view, Michelle's "When they go low, we go high" never meant we're lofty and principled and stick to our values, but that the idea we're high and they're low is effective rhetoric.

I suspect going high would have been more effective in 2018 than crazy-sounding combativeness, but in choosing a tactic, you're always at risk of being wrong. If you're principled and do what's right as an end in itself, then if it turns out not to get you want you want, you still have your honor. No one needs to follow you. No one needs to believe in you. But I don't think you are in politics. That's why I say calls for civility are always bullshit.

Combativeness isn't a new idea for Democrats, of course. Michelle Obama's line is memorable, but so is "If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard" (spoken by Obama's deputy chief of staff Jim Messina in 2009).

Other recent rejection of "When they go low, we go high," collected in the WaPo article:

“Michelle Obama had that beautiful line, ‘When they go low, we go high,'” Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) told a Los Angeles Times columnist in March 2017. “I thought about it a lot. But I also thought, ‘We lost the election.’ My view now is that when they go low, we fight back.”...

In a December 2016 HuffPost column, [transgender rights advocate Dana Beyer]... “Now, when they go low (and they do so every day), we must go lower. We fight them with everything we’ve got. Americans love a fighter, so let’s give them a fight.”

Last June, Neera Tanden, the Hillary Clinton apostle and head of the Center for American Progress, used colorful language on Twitter to argue that, when the other side goes low, “going high doesn’t . . . work.”...

“When they go low, I say, we hit harder,” [said Michael Avenatti, last August]...

Speaking in February on the “Lovett or Leave It” podcast, hosted by former Obama speechwriter Jon Lovett, author and commentator Roxane Gay declared.... “When they go low, we need to go [f—–g] subterranean.... Until Democratic politicians start adopting that, we’re never, ever going to overcome these kinds of obstacles.”...

169 comments:

rhhardin said...

Going low doesn't work except as entertainment.

MayBee said...

The thing about Michelle Obama's line is that it was never true.

David Begley said...

Creepy Porn Lawyer will be the Dem nominee.

rehajm said...

Arguing style is for losers. When Democtats go wrong, they go wrong.

MadisonMan said...

It's hard to craft a message of "Follow Me" if by going low you mean through the mud and the trenches. No sane person wants that without an acknowledgement that what you're going to do isn't fun.

Lost in the Democrats' simple message is the hard work needed, so it's easy (too easy) to conclude that they're simply lying and it's all -- as Althouse notes -- Civility BS.

JAORE said...

Hey, if you have a time machine the first thing you do is go back and kill Hitler in the cradle, right? And since all conservatives are literally Hitler.....

We laughed when the resistance compared themselves to D-Day combatants. They didn't. We laugh when they dress up as handmaidens. They don't.

Onward leftist sol-o-o-ldiers marching unto war.

Mary H said...

Speaking of going low and kicking, yesterday the Hollywood Reporter ran a story by Stephen Miller's third grade teacher. Miller, now a Trump aide, apparently liked to eat glue as an eight-year-old. The Hollywood Reporter found it necessary to publish his (now activist) teacher's memories of a child she disliked.

There is no news "hook" with this story at all. Quote from teacher:

"I can still picture him sitting in my classroom.

"Do you remember that character in Peanuts, the one called Pig Pen, with the dust cloud and crumbs flying all around him? That was Stephen Miller at 8. I was always trying to get him to clean up his desk — he always had stuff mashed up in there. He was a strange dude. I remember he would take a bottle of glue — we didn't have glue sticks in those days — and he would pour the glue on his arm, let it dry, peel it off and then eat it.

"I remember being concerned about him — not academically. He was OK with that, though I could never read his handwriting. But he had such strange personal habits. He was a loner and isolated and off by himself all the time..."

Sebastian said...

"calls for civility are always bullshit"

At least the Dems are dispensing with the BS. When even Hill stops lying, you know they've changed.

They are transitioning from bullshit to bullets.

roesch/voltaire said...

It will be a challenge to go lower than Trump.

The Crack Emcee said...

Everybody's going wrong but Trump - which is pretty amazing. I can't say "I called it" enough. How others would react to it?

Not so much...

MayBee said...

Everybody saw the Michelle Obama line as a sad farce, but Democrats and the press on their side kept repeating it as if it were true.
And that hurt them. They need to learn that people who disagree with them aren't going to agree just because they are willing to keep repeating self-flattery.

Ann Althouse said...

@Mary H

Yes, I saw that last night. If I'd seen it in the morning, I'd have put it up. But I saw it at night and just felt really bad about it.

AllenS said...

I was under the impression that "go low" meant to suck dick.

Temujin said...

Eric Holder arranged to run guns to the Mexican cartels. Those guns killed people and are still killing people. He's already been groveling in the mud with other Dems. For years. He's there. He's low. He wants others to join him in the mud.

sparrow said...

"calls for civility are always bullshit"
FWIW I'd qualify this to say calls for civility from the powerful are always BS, but plenty of ordinary people, who are not seeking power, prefer civility.

alan markus said...

The angry aggressive approach is failing. Look at the post-Kavanaugh-hearings polls.

Here is a post-Kavanaugh-hearing poll for Wisconsin Governor race.

Among likely voters in the governor's race, Walker had 47 percent, Evers had 46 percent — well within the poll's margin of error — and Libertarian candidate Phil Anderson had 5 percent.
Last month, Evers had a 5-point lead.

Annie C said...

Ann Althouse said...

"@Mary H

Yes, I saw that last night. If I'd seen it in the morning, I'd have put it up. But I saw it at night and just felt really bad about it."

Would that get the kids in politics tag?

AllenS said...

That teacher needs to be fired, and then sued by Miller.

AllenS said...

When they go low, we sue.

Qwinn said...

Just checking - is requesting that the Left stop shooting Congressmen on baseball fields, roundhouse kicking prolife women, blowing up trucks because they have a Trump bumper sticker, smashing people with bike locks, attacking people in their own yards, sending death threats to Congressmen's wives... would that all count as "civility bullshit" too? Seems like it would. Is there any way conservatives can demand the Left stop committing violence that won't be regarded as a cheap and cynical ploy?

Because if the people doing this are even being arrested, it doesnt seem like that's enough to discourage them.

Bay Area Guy said...

The Democrat Party is a party of weirdos and losers. They don't believe in hard work or capitalism or the Constitution. They certainly don't believe in the traditions of America. The rich, bi-coastal elites of Cali & NY fund them, the agitated mob of trouble-makers do their leg work.

EDH said...

“Hit ‘em high, hit ‘em low... hit ‘em where those cherries grow.”

bgates said...

You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about.

That's been a consistent stance of the Democrat Party since 1861, at least.

It's not some kind of updating or evolution. It's the opposite.

Not diametrically so. Both positions assume the opposition will "go low". To be fair, Republicans do go low, if only to duck the sniper fire.

wendybar said...

https://freebeacon.com/issues/pro-choice-man-filmed-kicking-woman-pro-life-protest/

Big Mike said...

If you're principled and do what's right as an end in itself, then if it turns out not to get you want you want, you still have your honor.

@Althouse, two part question. First, do women as a sex really grasp the concepts of honor and integrity? You seem taken aback that a man like Kavanaugh would fight back so hard to defend his honor and his hard-earned reputation for integrity, and neither Inga nor Vicki from Pasadena have any clue st all. Perhaps some of the regular female commentators like Freeman Hunt and DBQ and mockturtle can weigh in, too? (Note to the rest of you ladies, I decided to stop after five names or I would be typing names all morning.)

Second part, can you even name a Democrat in this entire confirmation debacle who demonstrated the slightest scintilla of integrity or honor? Okay, maybe Chris Coons. Name another.

Ray - SoCal said...

Holder was just being Holder, the mask just slipped a bit.

During college he was part of occupying a college office. His “our people” comment. And his “brainwash people about guns” program. Not to mention being held in contempt.

Thank God he’s not a Republican, or his comments would be beyond the pale and he would be ostracized socially and politically.





My name goes here. said...

I get where Holder is coming from, when they like and then unlike a tweet that says you were a less than good parent, you are supposed to kick them.

Hagar said...

"When they go low, we kick them (in the nuts left unspoken)."

Eric Holder also stated that he accepted the US Attorney General position to do what he could for "his people." On the one hand, a praiseworthy sentiment, on the other an absolute no-no for a civil servant who is supposed to work for all the people without favoring any one person or class of people. If Holder's aim was to work for "his people," he should have run for elective office.

Ray - SoCal said...

Democrats are amazing at research!

Romney - middle school haircut scandal
Kavanaugh - triggering yearbook entries
Miller - loner as an 8 year old

traditionalguy said...

Holder is a Racist rabble rouser in a suit. He has Soros' money at will and access to stashed Obama slush funds. Plus he has the political backing from the nullifier State of Mexifornia.

But he knows about the sealed Federal Indictments. So what's he have to lose by directing a civil insurrection in the streets while he is still able to influence the Mid-term elections.

Big Mike said...

@bgates, point of information. In 1856 Democrat Congressman Preston Brooks physically attacked Republican Senator Charles Sumner in the Capitol Building with a heavy wooden cane. Sumner was left crippled for the rest of his life.

M Jordan said...

Eric Holder has the charisma of a platypus with a weak chin.

Francisco D said...

Note to Eric Holder:

How about if you just go away?

Hagar said...

Did you notice how bad Hillary! looked in the clip of her making that statement? The phrase "a painted sepulcher" comes to mind.

Francisco D said...

Note to Eric Holder:

How about if you just go away?

bleh said...

Democrats have to convince themselves that Republicans “go low” so they can feel superior or, at worst, justified in playing dirty tricks against Republicans. It’s all a con, as Trump would say.

iowan2 said...

Bay Area Guy said...
The Democrat Party is a party of weirdos and losers.


Rush posits, The mental defects join the Democrat party and project their mental issues onto the party. The #metoo is populated by women that were abused or they think they were abused, never got the mental treatment they needed can't move forward, and project their mental issues onto the party. BLM, etc, etc.

tcrosse said...

Back in 1964 when MLK won the Nobel Peace Prize, Dick Gregory cracked that he was going to use the $50,000 to buy guns.

hiawatha biscayne said...

Steadman

Wilbur said...

@ Big Mike:

Why do you believe any of the people you mentioned (excluding AA) are really women?

And how do you know I'm not a woman? You can be who you want to be on The Interwebs.

tim in vermont said...

Blogger roesch/voltaire said...
It will be a challenge to go lower than Trump


Yeah, it might take a US Senator to air an uncorroborated and quickly afterwards retracted accusation of running a gang rape ring on the Senate floor.

tim in vermont said...

I date the current cycle of whackadoodle to two things, losing the House after controlling it for decades, and then the losing bid to steal the presidency in 2000.

Rory said...

This sort of stuff is being said and done by a small portion of leftists who are taught that conscience is an outmoded concept. It should be possible to get the bulk of people on that side to realize that this craziness relies on them to serve as shields in the event of real conflict.

Kevin said...

"You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about. That's why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and or the Senate, that's when civility can start again." -- Hillary Clinton

"Is it mob behavior? No, it's not mob behavior. It's people who are upset and they're angry with the way the country is going." -- Don Lemmon

"Michelle always says, 'When they go low, we go high.' No. No. When they go low, we kick them." -- Eric Holder

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." -- George Orwell

tim in vermont said...

If calling Florida for Gore when the polls were still open in the deep red Panhandle cost Bush even 500 hundred votes, the whole thing was manufactured by the press. How many votes nationwide did calling Florida for Gore cost, making it look like the election was over where polls were open?

Democrats are angry that they are not in power, no other reason.

Kevin said...

Bay Area Guy said...
The Democrat Party is a party of weirdos and losers.


It's a cult.

tim in vermont said...

This sort of stuff is being said and done by a small portion of leftists who are taught that conscience is an outmoded concept

https://nypost.com/2018/01/04/keith-ellison-invites-antifa-to-the-party/

Hagar said...

"Let's burn this mother down!" just does not sit well coming from a former US Attorney General.

tim in vermont said...

he would pour the glue on his arm, let it dry, peel it off and then eat it.

There is a thinking kid, Michael Moore would have just drunk it from the bottle.

Rory said...

"losing the House after controlling it for decades"

Yes, 44 of 48 years in the Senate, 56 of 60 years in the House.

Unknown said...

This sounds like permission, or justification, for the GOP to go low and be uncivil should the Democrats win back some Congressional control in November. Amiright?

-sw

gg6 said...

I think you're way past jumping the shark on this 'Civility Is Bullshit' bullshit. Civility is a major and necessary element in advanced societies and cultures - it includes such mundane, everyday behavior as holding a door open for the stranger behind you and works up and out from there. Such 'petty' behavior actually works quite well and makes life more livable, pleasant and worthwhile. What is bullshit is how the public domain of 'Politics' - driven by Dems/Liberals, imho - are so badly and unapologetically trashing this healthy cultural behavior. Why Dems/liberals? Because they are self-rightous and phony Rule Mongers at their core - they NEED to be obeyed or they will make you pay dearly for it. They attract and incite 'mob' behavior by their adherents because they ARE a mob mentality. Get in line or we will destroy you. If it works, they will continue. If not, they will eat themselves. Yelling 'Civility is bullshit' just encourages them - they luv it because its says their ugly incivility has made you just as ugly as they say you are. God save me from a neighbor who thinks Civility Is Bullshit.

Rick said...

When they go low, we kick them.""

[Holder] said a more antagonistic spirit is “what this new Democratic Party is about,” adding,


There are two mistakes. The first is that they kick regardless of what anyone else does, and the second is that this is in any way new.

Michael K said...

It should be possible to get the bulk of people on that side to realize that this craziness relies on them to serve as shields in the event of real conflict.

I dunno. The examples of Inga and Freder and R/V are not encouraging.

I think the cult theory is closer to the truth. I was in college when Jack Kennedy spoke on our campus. A girl I knew, a pretty smart and conservative girl, went to the rally and became "a jumper" as the Kennedy people called them.

They were girls who were in the crowd and kept jumping up and down so they could see him.

Ralph L said...

I date the current cycle of whackadoodle to two things, losing the House after controlling it for decades, and then the losing bid to steal the presidency in 2000.

You forgot the Lewinsky Saga.

Michael K said...

Why Dems/liberals? Because they are self-rightous and phony Rule Mongers at their core - they NEED to be obeyed or they will make you pay dearly for it

They are following the playbook of Antonio Gramsci, Italian communist.

Capitalism, Gramsci suggested, maintained control not just through violence and political and economic coercion, but also through ideology. The bourgeoisie developed a hegemonic culture, which propagated its own values and norms so that they became the "common sense" values of all. People in the working-class (and other classes) identified their own good with the good of the bourgeoisie, and helped to maintain the status quo rather than revolting.

To counter the notion that bourgeois values represented "natural" or "normal" values for society, the working class needed to develop a culture of its own. Lenin held that culture was "ancillary" to political objectives, but for Gramsci it was fundamental to the attainment of power that cultural hegemony be achieved first.


An attempt at "Cultural Hegemony: is what we see in the movies, newspapers, Google and Facebook.

FIDO said...

There is this mania in the Left.

Because so many of them were for pretty justified moral positions regarding race and gender, they got the sense that they were Great People!

Here is the thing. They didn't win because they were great people. They won because the moral position was accepted by the majority position BECAUSE IT WAS A CORRECT POSITION.

However, this is a new generation and they have no laurels. They need a cause...sooo...transgendered toilets for crazy people. Veganism. Hating on police because traffic stops are so uncomfortable and some CROOKS are being shot for...being CROOKS.

This...is not so clear cut.

But because they are Democrats and they were 'moral paragons' yesteryear, they MUST be TWICE AS GOODLY today!

And maybe they are! Pass a law. Not a governor executive order. Not a RBG special, checking out Carthagian Law to uphold her ideas of 'justice'.


CONVINCE PEOPLE. About abortion (most people don't like the absolutists like Althouse). About Immigrants (most people like a border and think sanctuary cities are crap).

The Democrats, with their riots and their shooters and their beatings and kicking women...can't imagine that they might be the BAD GUYS.

Well...how do you deal with someone who lashes out violently all they time when they won't listen?

I wish I knew a good way to deal with it.

chickenlittle said...

Obama henchman Erich Holder has never won elective office. He’s too ugly (inside and out) to win anything.

Phil 3:14 said...

I have to admit the image is pretty awful. Kicking some in the shins (i.e. when they haven’t gone low) is comedic and child-like. When the guy has gone low I imagine him getting kicked in the head. That conjures the image of the guy on the ground getting stomped on by the crowd...sorry, the MOB! (Reginald Denny in LA)

chickenlittle said...

As Obama’ AG, Holder was like a little Himmler — on the lookout for protecting “his people.”

Night Owl said...

Conservatives don't typically go low, but Trump does. Conservatives picked him for that reason. They learned that if you nominate a decent guy like Romney you lose to the swine in the media.

Trump fights back, especially against the Dem controlled media that loves to attack Republican politicians while covering-up for Dems. The left is not used to effective Republican counter-attacks, and when their usual dirty tricks don't work, they overreact and go too far. And so we witness the shameless attacks on Kavanaugh and due process which shocked middle America.

The left is now targeting not just Trump and other GOP politicians, but is encouraging the mentally disturbed in their base to harass all Trump supporters. Democrat politicians, like Maxine Waters, are openly threatening American citizens. To the largely apolitical voters in the middle the left looks dangerously unstable.

By fighting back, Trump has driven the left crazy. I doubt this is some grand plan of his. He's just naturally a fighter, and the left are just naturally one step away from hysteria.

Michael K said...

Susan Rice's son, who is president of the Stanford Young Republicans, was assaulted by a Holder enthusiast and is pressing charges.

I guess if she runs against Collins, her son won't be a volunteer in her campaign.

Sort of like Blasey Ford's family.

narciso said...

Holder likes to render six years to island prisons and make excuses for got No terrorists when he's not couching for oxycontins maker.

Matthew Sablan said...

"Yeah, MLK had a "nonviolence" shtick but he would have morphed to fit angry and divided times — if only he hadn't been a victim of violence. But Holder says he is "honor[ing] the legacy" of MLK by getting "combative.""

-- That's pretty insulting to MLK's legacy if Holder really meant it.

But, the fact is, no one believed the "we go high" rhetoric, because the left's political class *never went high.* McCain? He praised Obama and spent money on an ad saying congratulations. That was going high; he told people to not attack Obama. Romney went high.

Obama went low.

Seeing Red said...

Holder] said a more antagonistic spirit is “what this new Democratic Party is about,” adding, “We are proud as hell to be Democrats. We are willing to fight for the ideals of the Democratic Party.

Starvation destruction and death?

21st century parlance “Full Venezuela” or soon-to-be “Full Nicaragua.”

mikee said...

The French military exhibits a lot of pomp and ceremony. It might be that way because the French military needs that stuff, to compensate for some truly crushing defeats over the past century, to keep morale up in a world where they are now a minor power.

Likewise, the American Democrats, Leftists and media have a lot of angry bluster with predictions of revenge and violence. It might be that way because the Dem/Left/media have suffered such agonizing defeats recently, and need to do something to keep their morale up.

I would suggest they keep it at the level of bluster, though, to prevent their suffering even more crushing defeats.

I would vote for Condi Rice in a heartbeat.

brylun said...

Starvation, destruction and death are only for the Inga/Freder/Cookie and R/V of the Democrat party; the Clintons, Holders, etc. will have money and power just like Nicolas Maduro.

chickenlittle said...

“In a December 2016 HuffPost column, [transgender rights advocate Dana Beyer]... “Now, when they go low (and they do so every day), we must go lower. We fight them with everything we’ve got. Americans love a fighter, so let’s give them a fight.””

For Beyer, it’s always been a race to the bottoms.

wendybar said...

As a college student, Eric Holder participated in an "armed takeover" of Columbia University's ROTC office, he went on to become AG under Obama. The same Obama who said "You bring a knife, we bring a gun"...When have Democrats been civil???

tim in vermont said...

You forgot the Lewinsky Saga.

Yeah, that's where Bill Clinton taught them the power of sticking by a lie. Plus he made them all partake of the guilt. Like that scene in For Whom the Bell Tolls where the communists (Republicans in Spain) forced the villagers to murder the "fascists" that is, business owners, by beating them with farming implements like flails as the "fascists" were marched to their death over a cliff, so that everybody shared the guilt of the murders.

There is some Democrat named Jay something on the other thread hear attacking Juanita Broaddrick for being a lying skank whore.

tim in vermont said...

Castro died a multi-billionaire. Just saying.

chickenlittle said...

No one carries an Erich Holder doll in her purse — not even Jill Abramson.

JAORE said...

The false equivalency is staggering.

Yes, the TEA Party gathered. Yes, the TEA party yelled at some town halls. Yes, a Trump rally often rings with "Lock her up!".

But Geez Louise, folks. Beaten with a bicycle lock, cars vandalized for bumper stickers, shooting up Republicans at a baseball practice, screaming at people trying to enjoy an evening meal. Surrounding their homes. All encouraged by prominent Democrats.....

One of these things is not like the other.

mccullough said...

Trump has great humor.

These activist Dems are doing exactly what Trump wants them to do. Trump is running a version of the Apprentice on them. Let’s see which one of these Dems can come off the craziest. And the most craven.

Then Trump is going to pick that person as his opponent in 2020. The Dems work for Trump. And he doesn’t even have to pay them.

Seeing Red said...

Castro died a multi-billionaire. Just saying.

While his people got new cooking pots. It’s a shame fuel was hard to get.

Realcuba.com

ALWAYS

narciso said...

A dog returns to his vomit:



https://babalublog.com/2018/10/10/brazils-socialist-presidential-candidate-visits-lula-in-prison-to-get-his-marching-orders/

Night Owl said...

"FWIW I'd qualify this to say calls for civility from the powerful are always BS, but plenty of ordinary people, who are not seeking power, prefer civility."

I agree.

When I see videos of Antifa, I see emotionally unstable people being used as foot soldiers in a battle for power. When I saw the neo-Nazis marching in Charlottesville, I saw disturbed young men who felt marginalized. But to contrast the two, no one on the right is encouraging the neo-nazis -- quite the contrary-- while Dem politicians openly encourage incivility from the unstable extremists in their base.

Who cares if these sick individuals hurt someone or end up dead, as we saw in Charlottesville? I do and so do other people. Condemning the abuse of the mentally ill, censuring those who encourage violence that can lead to deaths, and criticizing law enforcement for standing down, as happened in Charlottesville and someone got killed, is not bullshit. Maybe this is simply entertainment for some people, but not to everyone.

Night Owl said...

I also agree with Qwinn @7:45 am:

"Is there any way conservatives can demand the Left stop committing violence that won't be regarded as a cheap and cynical ploy?"

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

--this is what happens when Negroes dont read

Night Owl said...

Using the word "mob" to describe the left must be effective, since they are pushing back so hard against it.

Original Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Darrell said...

People at Trump rallies shout "Lock Her Up" in order to wake Jeff Sessions up. But they do it with smiles on their faces.

Original Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bonkti said...


"That teacher needs to be fired, and then sued by Miller."

Forget it, Allen. It's Chinatown.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

Civil War 2.0

Original Mike said...

Althouse said...”The only coherence comes from understanding that calls for civility are always bullshit — just a con to get the other side to stand down, because when you think incivility suits your interests, suddenly it's a good thing.”

I’ve said before that I don’t accept that ALL calls for civility are bullshit. I liken it to the strong and weak anthropic principle in cosmology. Of course, a lot of times people just want the other side to shut up (call this the “weak” civility bullshit principle) but Althouse thinks it always applies (the “strong” civility bullshit principle). I accept the weak civility bullshit principle, but reject the strong version. I think some calls for civility are legitimate. When I expressed this sentiment a few days ago Althouse asked for an example. I offer this: Rand Paul’s response to Corey Booker calling for democrats to get in his opponents faces:

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/410610-rand-paul-on-political-climate-i-really-worry-that-someone-is-going-to-be

Here’s a guy who was both shot at, watching his colleague almost die, and was severely injured by his neighbor. I believe his call for more civility is both sincere and needs to be listened to.

(Sorry I didn’t embed the link. It doesn’t seem to be working this morning.)

Earnest Prole said...

According to Althouse's civility bullshit theorem, Eric Holder is a brave truthteller when he threatens violence against you, and you're guilty of bad faith if you call him out on it.

tim in vermont said...

Andy Cohen said he had similar thoughts: "Just today I was walking by a monitor, I don't know what channel was on, but there was -- he has some slogan about jobs for America or some new plan. And I saw that chyron: 'Jobs For America Plan,' and I thought to myself... it doesn't even matter if this works or not, he could get reelected just because he has a 'Jobs For America' plan."

So Andy Cohen has no idea what the unemployment rate has done, yet he no doubt that his opinion is of great value to Americans! Just imagine if Trump was actually able to reduce unemployment! Oooh!

tim in vermont said...

and you're guilty of bad faith if you call him out on it.

Or they call you out on "Godwin's Law" for pointing out the ironies in a group that calls itself "Anti Fascist" when really it is pro fascist.

Howard said...

"Punch back twice as hard" is the chickenhawk mantra of Glenn Instapustule. Macho posturing among the idiotlogical gamers is not in short supply

Seeing Red said...

even Charles the Hammer fought back after 150-200 years of push push push.

Howard said...

tim: Going Godwin is a fine feminized feline form of debate for those who lack all sense of scale and proportion. It does sell lots of Tide Pods.

FullMoon said...

Refreshing to see Hillary be honest. Acknowledging the un civil behavior encouraged by her people is a tactic encouraged and accepted by the left.

Earnest Prole said...

Speaking of Going Godwin, the November 11, 1938 New York Times noted that “Munich authorities rejected victims' calls for civility, saying they were ‘always bullshit.’”

Crazy Jane said...

Miller's seen this before. Here's what the former (public ) school board president said of him in 2017:

"He had very conservative views — the exact opposite of what we were trying to accomplish in the school district," she said.

This from an article in a "mainstream" newspaper -- http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-speechwriter-santamonica-20170117-story.html

Andrew said...

There is a great article by a Democrat who is rethinking his perspective on Trump, based on his area of expertise (Asian affairs). One of the best political reconsiderations I have ever read. It fits with this post (on the Dems advocating violence) because he takes on the arrogance of the elites.

https://warontherocks.com/2018/10/trump-and-the-end-of-smugness/

Kevin said...

it doesn't even matter if this works or not, he could get reelected just because he has a 'Jobs For America' plan."

Even Andy Cohen recognizes the novelty...

Big Mike said...

@Howard, if you get in Glenn Reynolds’ face — or mine! — you’ll find out that it isn’t whatever you imagine “posturing” to be.

hombre said...

And, after all, being a Democrat has made Holder a multimillionaire.

OTOH, don’t you sometimes wish we had a Conservative version of Holder as AG instead of timid Sessions.

tcrosse said...

"Punch back twice as hard" is the chickenhawk mantra of Glenn Instapustule.

He got it from Obama.

hombre said...

Democrats tried the call for civility schtick, but their behavior, from top to bottom, was so egregious, nobody was buying. So they are now following the lead of the leftmediaswine and going back to the old reliable blame the Republicans game.

Michael K said...


Blogger Howard said...
"Punch back twice as hard" is the chickenhawk mantra of Glenn Instapustule. Macho posturing among the idiotlogical gamers is not in short supply


Howard, I told you that you should learn to read. Then you would know who said that.

Really ! I'm a little worried abut you Howard. You are talking abut depression and shit. I don't want to read about you in the papers.

Read a book for a change.

Mr. Majestyk said...

Someone should ask Obama who he agrees with: his wife, Michelle ("When they go low, we go high.") or his former Attorney General, Holder ("When they go low, we kick them".).

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

A priori civility may be authentic. Privileged? A posteriori calls for civility are likely bullshit. Uncle!

Seeing Red said...

There’s an old Buffy TVS episode where lost souls/people are in a pit mining and Buffy fights back. The demon sez “ They’re not supposed to fight back!”

This has been a long time decades coming. One side kept choosing the ballot box - can u hear me now - the other side refuses to listen and work within the system. And here we are. The country seems to be getting Woke. You Dems never learned be careful what you wish for.

No whining.

FIDO said...

There is this vast internet presence of Republicans and Conservatives. They don't appear in the comments of the WaPo or the NYT. They don't answer CBS polls.

We are, as a pair of political parties, almost invisible to each other. Say what you want to about Inga. She's stupid, partisan, willfully myopic, a liar, a hypocrite...I better wind this up because I could go on for a while.

BUT, for all her negativity, she at least has the ovaries to step outside the Bubble...a little bit. Her inner bubbles walls get abused, but she's far more intrepid than most Vox and Huffpo readers.

And she gives sources for what she says. That's pretty good too. Usually they are places that even liberal fact checkers call fake news, but at least she TRIES.

Michael K said...

Her inner bubbles walls get abused, but she's far more intrepid than most Vox and Huffpo readers.

I would agree with that. The left wing blogs that I used to read do not want any disagreement. HuffPO, I notice, has no comments anymore. Even Patterico seems to have banned disagreement.

Even if she is wrong, and often nasty, she at least seems willing to expose herself to other opinions.

Qwinn said...

Sorry, but Inga's continuous willingness to lie and distort have eliminated any chance of my extending credit for hearing another opinion. She's not here to learn or listen, she's here to deliberately lie, deliberately distort, assassinate character, and otherwise propagandize bullshit. No cookie for that.

I realize that this suggests that I think anyone who hasn't already been driven away from the Left is guilty of the same. Their behavior is so indefensible that knowingly lying and bullshitting are their only possible recourse. You might think this means that I think anyone who still aligns with the Left cannot be trusted, and can be assumed to be arguing in bad faith. I have believed this to be true for my entire lifetime, I'm just happy that it's become so obvious that the rest of the population is finally getting wise to it.

Earnest Prole said...

Rand Paul spouting civility bullshit: ”When he came on the field with a semi-automatic weapon firing probably close to 200 shots at us, shooting five people and almost killing Steve Scalise, he was yelling 'this is for healthcare!"

Seeing Red said...

They are arrogant. They think they can control the mob and they won’t be able to. That’s history. They will be swept up right alongside us. They’ll also get the same treatment.

Seeing Red said...

Burn it down for what? Chinese Communism? Old USSR communism?

You had better be sure the EUtopia or Nirvana you dream of or think you can make work will.

Otherwise famine destruction and death. Most of you will not avoid the crocodile.

Tech won’t save you. If stuff starts getting blown up, your tech won’t work. Nasty capitalism will be needed to get it up and running again.

You Imagine but wake up in Lord of the Flies.

Jim at said...

Keep pushing it, leftists.
Keep it up.

Howard said...

Mike K: Thanks buddy. It means the world to me that you care. I am reading a great New Yorker article on Sarah Saunders very even-handed. She's a real smart girl, too bad all that talent going to waste serving Jabba the man-Slut.

The book I'm slogging through is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapiens:_A_Brief_History_of_Humankind

It has some good stuff, but is spoiled by PC notions of human behavior. Not surprising, the author is a historian, not a scientist.

Qwinn said...

Leftists always project. Always.

This includes when they called us "irredeemable", "deplorable", and the "dregs of society.". They are Marxists, pure and simple, and they have less to be proud of and more to be ashamed of than Nazis.

Go ahead, ask me for civility.

mikeski said...

Mr. Majestyk said...

Someone should ask Obama who he agrees with: his wife, Michelle ("When they go low, we go high.") or his former Attorney General, Holder ("When they go low, we kick them".).


It's both! Look at the video of the guy roundhouse-kicking the girl, posted earlier.

He kicked her.

He went high; the kick was well above the belt.

I'm not exactly sure what she did to "go low", but I assume just existing counts.

Jim at said...

"Punch back twice as hard" is the chickenhawk mantra of Glenn Instapustule. - Howard

Punch back twice as hard is a direct quote from Barack Obama, you imbecile.

Michael K said...

"This is for Healthcare!"

rehajm said...

So, I went to read VT Tim's quote from Andy Cohen in context and interestingly Cohen also says this: ...but he was talking to people in a way that they were connecting with, and the thing that is so upsetting to me and a lot of people is that facts don't matter anymore. And he can lie and lie and lie, and it is his own truth...

So there you have one more definitive data point demonstrating when lefties start taking about their own truth what they're taking about is lies.

Michael K said...

Howard, I'd suggest this one. More scientific.

Scientists have long believed that the “great leap forward” that occurred some 40,000 to 50,000 years ago in Europe marked end of significant biological evolution in humans. In this stunningly original account of our evolutionary history, top scholars Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending reject this conventional wisdom and reveal that the human species has undergone a storm of genetic change much more recently. Human evolution in fact accelerated after civilization arose, they contend, and these ongoing changes have played a pivotal role in human history. They argue that biology explains the expansion of the Indo-Europeans, the European conquest of the Americas, and European Jews' rise to intellectual prominence.

Michael K said...

Howard, I have this one pre-ordered.

It sounds good.

In Blueprint, behavioral geneticist Robert Plomin describes how the DNA revolution has made DNA personal by giving us the power to predict our psychological strengths and weaknesses from birth. A century of genetic research shows that DNA differences inherited from our parents are the consistent life-long sources of our psychological individuality―the blueprint that makes us who we are. This, says Plomin, is a game changer.

Qwinn said...

The Left is really really angry that their mobs are accurately being referred to as mobs

I'm willing to compromise. I'll stop calling them a mob collectively if I can use an even more descriptive and accurate term for them as individuals.

Orcs.

Ann Althouse said...

“I offer this: Rand Paul’s response to Corey Booker calling for democrats to get in his opponents faces:”

Cross party.

No indicia of non-bullshit.

Prove he doesn’t abandon the idea when his side wanrs to get rude and aggressive.

Qwinn said...

Ann, are you really suggesting that when it becomes convenient, Rand Paul will defend conservatives shooting up Democrat Congressmen while yelling "this is for Obamacare"?

It amazes me that you read that response and, after noting that over a year has passed without the media mentioning what the leftist shooter was yelling at the time, and how they have completely shoved him down the memory hole, it is only what Paul said that triggers your bullshit detector.

tcrosse said...

"Former first lady Michelle Obama rejected comments from Hillary Clinton and former Attorney General Eric Holder suggesting that Democrats should not be civil with Republicans."

Qwinn said...

Oh, and "prove he doesn't abandon" his principle at some future hypothetical event? Seriously?

He's been in office a long time. If you can't point to a time when he has done in the past, that should be enough to prove your theory wrong. "Prove he doesn't abandon" some time in the future is an attempt to make your theory unfalsifiable. If that's wrong, explain what Paul could ever do to falsify your thesis, besides die.

Achilles said...

Ann Althouse said...
“I offer this: Rand Paul’s response to Corey Booker calling for democrats to get in his opponents faces:”

Cross party.

No indicia of non-bullshit.

Prove he doesn’t abandon the idea when his side wanrs to get rude and aggressive.



You are talking about Rand Paul.

At least pretend.

FullMoon said...

Nice short civility vid.


No Mob Talking Points

tim in vermont said...

Campaign staffers for Tennessee Democrat Senate nominee Phil Bredesen were caught on tape admitting that the supposedly moderate candidate was lying through his teeth when he said last Friday that he would have voted to confirm Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. The staffers, surreptitiously recorded by Project Veritas in a video released Wednesday night, said Bredesen lied to hoodwink moderate Republicans into voting for him.

LOL, They should use this video in West Virginia too.

Qwinn said...

Althouse is correct insofar as *leftist* calls for civility are always bullshit.

She extends this to conservatives with absolutely no evidence (can she even point to a public conservative who has been "rude and aggressive", ever? Please point to this mythical beast for me so I can contribute to their campaign) in service to her "cruel neutrality" shtick and nothing else.

Matthew Sablan said...

How do people KEEP FALLING FOR PROJECT VERITAS STINGS?

tim in vermont said...

I think that they could drive the point that they are not mobs home by driving more Republicans out of restaurants where they are having quiet dinners with their families. That will work!

What they don't get is that most of us sort of identify with Cruz and think "that will be me..." Which is what they really want us to think, of course, which is what motivated them. But don't worry, it will all stop if we just vote for them.... They must have got some polling showing it backfired, of course.

tim in vermont said...

The Project Veritas tapes are NOT THE TAPES that Tom Arnold is looking for.

tim in vermont said...

Imagine if a tape came out that Ted Cruz was lying to his supporters this close to the election...

Carter Wood said...

Byron York on civility this p.m. in POLITICO. ‘Civility is for Suckers’ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/10/civility-hillary-clinton-221301

Rory said...

Seeing Red said: "You Imagine but wake up in Lord of the Flies."

Imagine requires that YOU join US before we can live as one.

Mark said...

MLK had a "nonviolence" shtick but he would have morphed to fit angry and divided times (emphasis in original)

No. He wouldn't. It was only three weeks ago that I posted here --

"I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I think this was at the very center of Jesus’ thinking, is this: that hate for hate only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit you and you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see, that goes on ad infinitum. It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must have a little sense, and that’s the strong person. The strong person is the person who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the tragedy of hate, that it doesn’t cut it off. It only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. Somebody must have religion enough and morality enough to cut it off and inject within the very structure of the universe that strong and powerful element of love. . .

"There’s another reason why you should love your enemies, and that is because hate distorts the personality of the hater. We usually think of what hate does for the individual hated or the individuals hated or the groups hated. But it is even more tragic, it is even more ruinous and injurious to the individual who hates. You just begin hating somebody, and you will begin to do irrational things. You can’t see straight when you hate. You can’t walk straight when you hate. You can’t stand upright. Your vision is distorted. There is nothing more tragic than to see an individual whose heart is filled with hate. He comes to the point that he becomes a pathological case. For the person who hates, you can stand up and see a person and that person can be beautiful, and you will call them ugly. For the person who hates, the beautiful becomes ugly and the ugly becomes beautiful. For the person who hates, the good becomes bad and the bad becomes good. For the person who hates, the true becomes false and the false becomes true. That’s what hate does. You can’t see right. The symbol of objectivity is lost. Hate destroys the very structure of the personality of the hater. . . . Hate at any point is a cancer that gnaws away at the very vital center of your life and your existence. It is like eroding acid that eats away the best and the objective center of your life. So Jesus says love, because hate destroys the hater as well as the hated. . .

"So this morning, as I look into your eyes, and into the eyes of all of my brothers in Alabama and all over America and over the world, I say to you, 'I love you. I would rather die than hate you.' And I’m foolish enough to believe that through the power of this love somewhere, men of the most recalcitrant bent will be transformed. And then we will be in God’s kingdom. We will be able to matriculate into the university of eternal life because we had the power to love our enemies, to bless those persons that cursed us, to even decide to be good to those persons who hated us, and we even prayed for those persons who despitefully used us."

--- Sermon of November 17, 1957

Rick said...

Howard said...
"Punch back twice as hard" is the chickenhawk mantra of Glenn Instapustule. Macho posturing among the idiotlogical gamers is not in short supply

10/11/18, 10:50 AM


It's revealing the idiot mocks the person who he agrees with instead of the person who made the objectionable comment. It's like his criticism is triggered only by the person and the issue only creates a hook.

Mark said...

"There never was a moment in American history more honorable and more inspiring than the pilgrimage of clergymen and laymen of every race and faith pouring into Selma to face danger at the side of its embattled Negroes. . . . the Negro and white masses of the South threatened to unite and build a great society: a society of justice where none would pray upon the weakness of others; a society of plenty where greed and poverty would be done away; a society of brotherhood where every man would respect the dignity and worth of human personality. . . . And so I plead with you this afternoon as we go ahead: remain committed to nonviolence. Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding. We must come to see that the end we seek is a society at peace with itself, a society that can live with its conscience. And that will be a day not of the white man, not of the black man. That will be the day of man as man."
---MLK, March 25, 1965

During his ministry, King was jailed multiple times, beaten, threatened, and his home where his family lived was bombed. He never wavered from nonviolence.

Earnest Prole said...

Althouse is not in control of her material: She's conflated the banal definition of civility, "politeness," with the profound definition, the social contract by which we agree not to threaten, maim, or kill those with whom we disagree. From the Politico article, "Derived from the Latin word civilis, relating to public or political life, civility is the basis of our life together, assuring that disagreements are settled within certain bounds and don’t escalate into blood feuds." Althouse's civility bullshit theorem takes that for granted.

Night Owl said...

"Prove he doesn’t abandon the idea when his side wanrs to get rude and aggressive."

It's hard to prove since conservatives aren't rioting, physically attacking or shooting at Democrats. And haven't in quite a long time. Under eight years of Obama the worst we saw from the opposition was the Tea Party rallies where those "mobs" cleaned up after themselves. And I didn't hear Rand Paul or any Republican leaders encouraging the Tea partiers to riot or harass people, even though Obama promised to "fundamentally transform" the country. If anything, I recall some GOP leaders tried to distance themselves from the Tea Party.

There's a range between rude and aggressive, and between verbal and physical aggression. We have a freedom of speech and assembly, not a freedom to physically assault people who we disagree with politically. I think Dem leaders calling on mobs to harass people at restaurants and public settings is irresponsible and dangerous. Some of us would prefer to not see a backlash against leftist violence from conservatives.

I'd rather not see politics get so ugly that both sides are killing each other, just to prove or disprove whether Rand Paul is full of civility bullshit.

William Chadwick said...

Funny cartoon on the Ace of Spades HQ. It's a drawing, probably from a 1950s advertisement, of a Fifties style housewife--someone who'd probably make June Cleaver look like Betty Friedan, smiling and sipping coffee. The caption is, "My husband didn't convince me to vote for Trump. Bill Clinton's wife did."

If I were Ace, I'd probably be mote civil to Queen Cacklepants. She's liable to bring in that sniper who almost killed her in the Balkans, and a bunch of us on the pro-freedom side could end up committing "Arkancide."

Kevin said...

MLK had a "nonviolence" shtick but he would have morphed to fit angry and divided times (emphasis in original)

It's all part of the plan:

Step 1: Continually assert law abiding citizens are Nazis, even as they peacefully go about their business.

Step 2: Assert the peaceful protest leaders of the past **would have** been violent today, given all the Nazism.

Step 3: Mob rule.

Step 4: Tell people the only way to stop the mob is to put the chosen people into power, by any means necessary.

Sebastian said...

"Prove he doesn’t abandon the idea when his side wanrs to get rude and aggressive."

Sorry, you made the universal civility bullshit claim, so the burden of proof is on you.

To my knowledge, Rand Paul has never advocated being "rude and aggressive." He has never attacked his Dem neighbor. What evidence do you have that he would?

You are extrapolating from lefty misbehavior. No leading conservative, not W, not Romney, not Cruz or Rubio, not Tom Sowell or Tom Cotton, has ever practiced civility bullshit as you describe it.

Trump doesn't help your case: he bullshits at times, but it is not civility bullshit.

Civility bullshit is a tool of the left.

FullMoon said...

Night Owl said... [hush]​[hide comment]

"Prove he doesn’t abandon the idea when his side wanrs to get rude and aggressive."

It's hard to prove since conservatives aren't rioting, physically attacking or shooting at Democrats. And haven't in quite a long time. Under eight years of Obama the worst we saw from the opposition was the Tea Party rallies where those "mobs" cleaned up after themselves. And I didn't hear Rand Paul or any Republican leaders encouraging the Tea partiers to riot or harass people, even though Obama promised to "fundamentally transform" the country. If anything, I recall some GOP leaders tried to distance themselves from the Tea Party.

There's a range between rude and aggressive, and between verbal and physical aggression. We have a freedom of speech and assembly, not a freedom to physically assault people who we disagree with politically. I think Dem leaders calling on mobs to harass people at restaurants and public settings is irresponsible and dangerous. Some of us would prefer to not see a backlash against leftist violence from conservatives.

I'd rather not see politics get so ugly that both sides are killing each other, just to prove or disprove whether Rand Paul is full of civility bullshit.


Anticipate leftist commenter to show up with anecdotal evidence of "alt-right" misbehavior, leading off with guy who ran into protester in NC(?)

Big diff between sponsored and organized and anecdotal.

Qwinn said...

FullMoon, they already beat you to it. Seeing lefty commentators on TV already claiming the woman was killed by a right wing mob, instead of by a single person who panicked when their car was surrounded by a left wing mob.

Night Owl said...

"Anticipate leftist commenter to show up with anecdotal evidence of "alt-right" misbehavior, leading off with guy who ran into protester in NC(?)"

Let them show where the GOP endorsed or encouraged neo-Nazi violence. I know leftists believe Trump is literally Hitler and the handful of pathetic neo-Nazis are his soldiers who hear dog whistles that only Nazis and leftists can hear, but sensible people ain't buying it.

William Chadwick said...

"MLK had a 'nonviolence' shtick but he would have morphed to fit angry and divided times. . . ."

He also reportedly had a small home armory to defend himself and his family from attack. You know, like many of us in the pro-freedom camp do.

Seeing Red said...

My husband didn't convince me to vote for Trump. Bill Clinton's wife did."


ME ME ME ME ME c. 1998!

Crawl across broken glass I would have.

I said back then she set feminism back 50 years.

Larry Summers credentialed idiot response to his duh! Statement set them back another 50, those wymin needed fainting couches and now another leap back.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...”Cross party.
No indicia of non-bullshit.
Prove he doesn’t abandon the idea when his side wanrs to get rude and aggressive.”


Until Republicans start shooting up Democrats that’s a bit hard to do. I’ll just note that considering what he’s endured it’s a bit rich to be impugning his motives.

I am very concerned about the road we are on, and I can’t imagine I’m alone in this regard.

Qwinn said...

Althouse's casual extension of leftist perfidy and manipulation to innocent Republican victims of leftist violence is an attempt to display "cruel neutrality". It succeeds in the first half, and proves the extreme opposite of the second half. There is no neutral evaluation that can hold both sides equally responsible for what she accuses them of here, not even close.

tim in vermont said...

Howard said...
"Punch back twice as hard" is the chickenhawk mantra of Glenn Instapustule


You do know that he is mocking Obama when he quotes him like that, don't you?

https://www.politico.com/story/2009/08/wh-to-dems-punch-back-twice-as-hard-025891

Howard is sporadically sensible. Sometimes though, it's like he is trying to be as ignorant and R/V. Ignorance really is a kind of strength, it keeps people from questioning. I would be happy to go onto a liberal blog and comment there, maybe have holes poked in my arguments, but they just ban you as soon as you score a point.

Mark said...

He also reportedly had a small home armory to defend himself and his family from attack.

Except when people showed up with guns after he was once targeted with violence, King told them to put their weapons down.

tim in vermont said...

The voters are now Trump’s noxious base, ...

Viewed that way, Trump’s base itself becomes the enemy of the Republic. It is its enthusiasm for Trump that is the greatest impediment to a genuine search for truth and an honoring of it.

Every time Trump’s followers turn a blind eye to his corruption, dishonesty or hatred, they say to the Republicans they sent to Washington, “If you are my representative, you will follow my lead and promote my desires.”
New York Times

I don't see the "hate"

As for corruption, the New York Times endorsed Clinton
As for dishonesty, see above.

They just flush their credibility, and their "creditability" down the toilet day after day since they have become slaves to their partisan passions.

Look what has happened to Hollywood.

"The Sisters Brothers," starring John C. Reilly and Joaquin Phoenix, earned just $730,000 after the studio purchased the North American rights for $7.5 million.

You won't believe this, but the Sisters Brothers was a movie about what America could be if we were just not so damn greedy! The guy who wrote it did cash in, though.

Mark said...

One dark night on January 30, 1956, a bomb exploded on the porch of the King family home. As a large crowd formed, ready to retaliate, it was Dr. King’s faith in Jesus that led him to ask the people to put away their weapons and speak of responding instead with love. “We are not advocating violence,” he said. “We want to love our enemies. I want you to love our enemies. Be good to them.”

The justice Dr. King sought would be gained not by force, but by love, explaining at the first meeting establishing the Montgomery bus boycott, “Justice is love correcting that which revolts against love.”

tim in vermont said...

Michelle Obama rebukes Hillary and Holder

“Fear is not — it’s not a proper motivator. Hope wins out,” Obama said. “And if you think about how you want your kids to be raised, how you want them to think about life and their opportunities, do you want them afraid of their neighbors? Do you want them angry? Do you want them vengeful?”

“We want them to grow up with promise and hope,” Obama added. “And we can’t model something different if we want them to be better than that.”


https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/10/michelle-obama-contradicts-holder-hillary-fear-is-not-a-proper-motivator/

Earnest Prole said...

Nearly 45 years ago members of the Symbionese Liberation Army murdered Oakland’s superintendent of public schools for his educational philosophy. The professor will need to advise us whether it’s bullshit to mourn that particular incivility.

Mike Bunge said...

This is just the Internet Tough Guy syndrome in real life.

Mike

Rick said...

Michelle Obama rebukes Hillary and Holder

Not really. Parties have actual plans and they have public relations. Obama is public relations. Holder is/wants to be operations.

Someone has to say something the media can claim "proves" the Dems aren't governed by Holder's comments. It doesn't need to be true, any hook will do. This is what sophists do.

Doug said...

Althouse, how in HELL do you know that Michelle was not sincere, that she was just making a rhetorical signal. Maybe sh does believe that the best way to react to performed incivility is with civility?

tcrosse said...

Michelle rebukes Hillary for the sake of the Children. God knows we don't want Chelsea getting violent.

The Godfather said...

"When they go low . . . ." But the Left doesn't wait for the Other Side to go low. We just saw this. The President nominated a highly qualified judge to the Supreme Court, he didn't go low, and before a word of scandal had been uttered against him, the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee and the disruptors in the hearing room erupted to interfere with the process of evaluating the nominee's qualifications.

What's obvious is that there is NO LIMIT to what (some on) the Left will do to advance it's agenda. NONE. I sometimes wish that the Right was similarly unlimited, but then I stop and recognize that what makes the Right (the right Right) my side, is that they don't do that sort of thing.

Matthew Sablan said...

"But the Left doesn't wait for the Other Side to go low. We just saw this. The President nominated a highly qualified judge to the Supreme Court, he didn't go low"

-- Part of it though is understanding how both sides think. The Left considers this payback, with interest, for Garland. The Right went low with Garland. Now, I don't agree with that, and I certainly don't think even if it was dirty pool, it justifies counter attacks. But, I think as the left and right spend more and more time in their own bubbles, they can't even communicate basic facts to each other. The Left can't understand how the Right DOESN'T see what happened to Garland as treason, straight up. Until we can get both sides at least agreeing on the same terminology and reality, even if they have different opinions about what that reality means, we're not going to solve the going high/low problem.

Qwinn said...

Please. Garland was an application of the Biden rule. It was the mildest example possible of making the Left live under the same rules it sets for us. Not to mention it was the Scalia Seat (we do remember how lefties believe they own every seat they've ever held in perpetuity, right?) It was also the first time in decades that those on the Right felt their representatives showed even the slightest bit of spine. If that is the true leftist threshold for unacceptable behavior from the Right, that is effectively equivalent to demanding absolute and total submission in every possible respect. Fuck them. War.

Qwinn said...

Lastly, I think the notion that leftists wouldn't have done the same thing (yet again) were the Garland situation on the other foot... and in fact would have gone a hell of a lot further... is laughable. Why would they? Because they have integrity and respect for the process and for norms and decency, so they'd give up a liberal seat to a conservative without a fight? Bwahahahahaah!

Gahrie said...

Please. Garland was an application of the Biden rule.

What happened to Garland has happened 11 other times out of a total of 44 failed Supreme Court nominations, all before the Biden Rule was proposed. Something that happens more than 25% of the time is simply standard operating procedure.

President Pee-Pee Tape said...

The only coherence comes from understanding that calls for civility are always bullshit...

I'm glad you've always openly opposed civility, Trump would be proud.

So when are you going to admit the next logical step... that you're pro-violence?

Can't be against civil resolution of your disagreements without being pro-violence.

Stephen St. Onge said...

"Onward leftist sol-o-o-ldiers marching unto war."

And that's why they should be referred to as 'Social Justice Warriors.' Mock their pretensions of bravery and principle. Show they are ridiculous.

furious_a said...

The angry aggressive approach is failing.

So they're going to go even more angry and aggressive!