It's absurd that a nobody can be the one the whole world talks about for days on end. It was so easy. Now, the upside is, he showed how to do it without hurting anyone (other than maybe scaring some people a bit). Maybe in the future, somebody who's thinking they should shoot up a school/movie theater/nightclub/outdoor concert will seek recognition in this all-scare-no-physical-pain way. But I still believe in my mother's ignore-him strategy.
Don't leverage losers.
And also, don't pleasure yourself over the manifestations of the mentally ill. It's not a show for your amusement — not a horror show and not a comedy. The fact that a mentally ill person can do damage and hurt real people is a reason to be vigilant and to find ways to identify and help or at least restrain those who are dangerously mentally ill. And let's not ourselves lean into mental illness! What is the sane and rational way to live in a world where our fellow beings operate from brains and brains malfunction (and are never really perfect, if there even is such a thing)? Going wild and gawking at The Cesar Sayoc Show for a week is surely not the answer.
In 2010, he posted a photo collage on Facebook showing himself shirtless and flexing his muscles.
“If birds didnt fly south for the winter and sun didnt rise in the east would tomorrow come.” he bizarrely commented on the photo.
Posts
182 comments:
Soap opera women are mentally ill. There's the root of the problem, their entertainment choices. The MSM caters to it.
This fellow is a way to mock soap opera women.
Soapdish (1991) was good, going metasoap.
1. "He's only trying to get attention," 2. "Ignore him," and 3. "You'll only encourage him."
Your mother sounds like my mother.
And coverage of this guy will dominate CNN for the next two weeks like that missing jet.
"Lean into"? A phrase like fingernails on a blackboard.
In 2010, he posted a photo collage on Facebook showing himself shirtless and flexing his muscles.
A regular Vladimir Putin.
Sayoc was missing the point of the soap opera, going for male counter-action rather than passively being entertained.
He misread the political advantages of lefty meltdown personages to the right, however. You want to encourage those lefties, not discourage them.
The misreading is so bad that it's hard to believe he's on the right at all.
Seems like those 500+ comments in the post yesterday were mostly from men. It's bullshit to blame women for the interest in this guy.
Perhaps Cesar Sayoc was being groomed by the Deep State as a patsy for something bigger--the assassination of Donald Trump. Trump supporter, disillusioned by something Trump did or didn't do, feels betrayed and . . .
Can there be this kind of love in politics? I feel like Trump is trying to bring this kind of love to politics... but he's not even a true politician, because it's not his livelihood.
The nation managed to ignore the guy who sent actual ricin to the SecDef and several other government leaders. Look! I can't even name who all got the ricin, because it wasn't covered very much.
But this is a much bigger story, and someone in the media covering it needs to explain *why*.
Men are interested in the structure, not the guy. Does this make sense etc.
Filipinos are normally short, slight people.
A few Filipinos in my extended family dose their kids with human growth hormone and steroids almost from birth so that their kids will be bigger. I've met a few Filipino kids who've been on this regimen. In their teens, they are the height of a normal Westerner and thickly muscled.
It's an arms race of a sort. You can buy HGH and steroids over the counter in pharmacies in the Philippines.
What will be the long term outcome in terms of physical and mental health from this self-dosing?
Perhaps the strip club owner will come into the underground garage when Cesar is arraigned. Bang. Bang. We haven't used this trick for awhile.
Is Trump bullying people does not interest even a single guy.
I thought all women are soap opera women. So how then is soap opera interest mental illness? Isn't illness abberation?
Going wild and gawking at The Cesar Sayoc Show for a week is surely not the answer.
Exactly. As I said, yesterday.....Everyone should just cool their jets for awhile. Until we have actual, real, verified information, it is all just fluff and rumors.
Don't let the media (or anyone else) get you into a frenzy. That is what they want you to do. Time after time, this BS happens and eventually it turns out to be not what they are saying or turns out to be nothing.
Do you WANT to be manipulated this way? Are you getting some sort of endorphin high?
I also agree with Althouse. We do not know what to do with the mentally ill. You look at this guy's twitter feed, you look at his van, and you know he is mentally ill. You know his co-workers knew it. What do we do with that? Well, in the current climate you use him for politics, because everything in the news has to be about politics now. But who does that help?
HGH and steroid use is also, in my opinion, exacerbating the culture of violence in the Philippines.
That culture of violence was already quite extreme. Many parts of the country are virtually lawless. Vendettas are common. You often have to pay off the police even to investigate the murder of a family member.
I suspect that the widespread use of HGH and steroids is amping up the violence.
The soap story is republicans are killing off dem opponents, a part of the republicans are hitler theme.
The guy-structural elements are the ways it doesn't fit.
rhhardin said...
Is Trump bullying people does not interest even a single guy.
The people who run the newsrooms are guys.
And come on Hardin. Whether Trump is a bully interests many men. Maybe they're faking this interest to get into women's pants or to make a living, sure. But you spout this crap as though all men in this country were hunched over noble pursuits such as math, ham radio, Dobermans, or obscure movies on DVD while the political ccommentaty is as female a profession as teaching kindergarten.
I thought all women are soap opera women. So how then is soap opera interest mental illness? Isn't illness abberation?
40% of women are soap opera women. It's enough to support the news business.
The people who run the newsrooms are guys.
It's a business. They sell eyeballs to advertisers. They use the content that does that. That's soap opera.
And come on Hardin. Whether Trump is a bully interests many men.
Actually, no, it doesn't. Trump is just a guy, not a threat, to another guy.
"I still believe in my mother's ignore-him strategy."
Quaint.
"Don't leverage losers."
Tell it to theMSM.
"find ways to identify and help or at least restrain those who are dangerously mentally ill."
You mean without "discriminating" and inviting lawsuits?
"gawking at The Cesar Sayoc Show for a week is surely not the answer."
You are just asking the wrong question. Unfortunately.
Your mother's world is gone. If progs keep at it, so will yours.
The left's problem with Trump is that Trump uses the MSM news cycle in a way that throws sand in the left's gears. Nothing seems to work for them that used to work.
The interest in Sayoc is whether he fits as claimed. His misreading of the value of leftist people to the right is really bad; and he's too over-the-top Trump supporter to be believed. Why has that van not been keyed to death by this time.
Looking for a fatal slip in the suspicious setup is a detective problem.
Actually, no, it doesn't. Trump is just a guy, not a threat, to another guy.
I don't think that's true. On Twitter, on podcasts, and on talkshows I see plenty of men stating their feelings of threat from Trump. He's racist, he's going to put people in camps, he is going to get us into a war.
I would say 40% of men are soap opera men.
Will there really be a "Morning"?
Is there such a thing as "Day"?
Could I see it from the mountains
If I were as tall as they?
...
Oh some Scholar! Oh some Sailor!
Oh some Wise Men from the skies!
Please to tell a little Pilgrim
Where the place called "Morning" lies!
The man who shouldn't be named may be an Emily Dickinson on the rise. Would you say her scribblings were "bizarre"?
Ah, Althouse! Ah, humanity!
"1. "He's only trying to get attention," 2. "Ignore him," and 3. "You'll only encourage him.""
That's been my approach to the Trump tweets for quite some time
(not that Mr. Trump would notice my lack of attention.)
And now I'll turn the mic over to Mr. Hardin as he is the expert in these matters.
I assume he strips for gays, unless he's working the batchelorette circuit, which isn't a right-wing sort of thing, anyway the social right.
Michael Avenatti might be a good attorney for him. Also to put on joint appearances with Soapy Daniels.
My son is linking to sites that say there is no need for reporting or a narrative. All you need to say is "Florida Man." Is that cruel? To people in Florida?
I do think he stripped for guys. Maybe he won't stay in the news, because he seems to be a gay non-white male who supported Trump. There's got to be a lot of polling going on out there to see how his story plays.
I don't think that's true. On Twitter, on podcasts, and on talkshows I see plenty of men stating their feelings of threat from Trump. He's racist, he's going to put people in camps, he is going to get us into a war.
Those are shows for women. The men are content for the show.
To a guy, Trump is at worst an opponent. Nobody goes feelz on it.
Please to tell a little Pilgrim
Where the place called "Morning" lies!
In the East. About 5:30am +/- a few hours depending on the time of year, on your latitude and the terrain surrounding you. Mountains in the East will delay morning.
Evening is in the West.
I never did get poetry very much :-)
I've attended NOW meetings but that was to pick up babes.
I had a steroid guy in my law class. He muttered to himself and when called on he read from one if those commercial outlines. I'd see him at the gym after school, pumping iron of course. He got busted for cheating 2L. A real weirdo.
God that was '86. Stuffs been around a long time
Are Phillipinos hispanic? Or are they Asian?
Are they allowed into Harvard?
"Trump is just a guy, not a threat, to another guy."
Eh, my spouse sure hates him. To him Trump is every pigheaded boss he ever had. Still rants about him stiffing his subs.
Needless to say we don't watch much news together.
The guys who won World War II are gone.
The guys who went to Vietnam and survived are old now.
What is left is mostly the soap opera types.
We have the guys who went to Iraq and Afghanistan but they are unheard. They are the Trump voters.
Lloyd, I said from the moment he was identified that it's Florida Man.
Maybe I peruse too many memes, but it was the very first thing that came to mind.
“If birds didnt fly south for the winter and sun didnt rise in the east would tomorrow come.” he bizarrely commented on the photo.
Yes. Yes it would.
Even if you jumped off of a 4 story building and splattered yourself all over the pavement, tomorrow would still come. Maybe not for you, but it would for everyone else.
Sayoc is a sad story. I truly believe he did not mean to harm anyone. Those "IED's were never going to go off. I think he meant it that way.
“We have the guys who went to Iraq and Afghanistan but they are unheard. They are the Trump voters.”
Baloney. They aren’t all Trump voters thank God. My daughter went to Afghanistan and Iraq, she voted for Gore and Obama and so did the vast majority of the minority and female military members.
“Those "IED's were never going to go off. I think he meant it that way.”
Wray said they “were not hoax bombs, they were IEDs.”
If the bombs were real, the law mandates a life sentence for each one. The feds are going for, what, 40 years total.
“were not hoax bombs, they were IEDs.”
So is putting a roll of caps under a rock for cars to run over. It's an IED by any definition, It's just not a meaningful category. I think until we hear what he has to say, there is no way we can know. It's all in his intent, isn't it? Which Inga the All Seeing knows, obviously.
William clyde Allen, and yes sayov he does have a tie to miss daniels
So what's up with the caravan in Mexico?
This story seems to be working.
But it also seems to get weirder by the day and I suspect that by next Wednesday it will disappear.
At least as a "bombing" story.
"Bombing" in quotes because a plastic tube filled with inert powder, no detonator is not a "bomb" in any meaningful sense of the word.
John Henry
And also, don't pleasure yourself over the manifestations of the mentally ill.
Like the prostitute who supposedly tried to bite some guy's dick?
Or is it more like the frat guy who killed himself?
My daughter went to Afghanistan and Iraq, she voted for Gore and Obama
So your daughter is a guy ?
Idiot.
"Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, and Maxine Waters have all called for violence and harassment against Republicans. Run of the mill entertainers who identify as Democrat talk about killing the president. And not just Trump, either. All Republican presidents are the subject of assassination porn.
Heck, just now, just today Rick Wilson called for someone to put a bullet in Trump’s head as Ace reports.
And pardon me, we have to disavow our opposition to socialism and mind our p's and q's because we might cause violence.
But the left can deploy Antifa to turn entire downtowns into war zones. Leftist affiliated nuts can shoot Scalise and put Rand Paul in the hospital fighting for his life, but hey, they don’t have to apologize for anything.
What you have to understand here is that what the Left is telling you when it accuses you of causing violence from some marginally attached to reality felon (yes, a felon; yes, a believer in chemtrails; yes, a hater of Monsanto; his “support of Trump” is almost accidental, it could as easily have been My Little Pony fandom.) They’re telling you that you don’t have a right to exist. You are, in their opinion an oppressor and standing in the way of their socialist paradise, which is, of course, the best for mankind. They are allowed to shoot us, beat us, run us out of restaurants, attack us, call us names. We can’t respond. If we respond at all we’re causing nutcases to send fake bombs or something."
-Sarah Hoyt
“Which Inga the All Seeing knows, obviously.”
Wray seems to disagree with you. Maybe he should contact you and recruit you for your expertise in IEDs.
While this story descends from the sublime "Most extensive plot since the Lincoln assassination" to the ridiculous, "a guy who makes Ren and Stimpy look like sober gentlemen" the caravan, drawn by Democrats and Paul Ryan Republicans' refusal to build a wall, marches on.
Inga:
That's why I put "IED's" in parenthesis. It's a ridiculous statement. Like much of what comes out of the FBI these days. 14 out of 14 did not go off. Their design is laughable. If Wray wants to call them "IEDs" he needs to explain why. At this point all we have is his assertion. Give us some proof.
Speaking of assertions, please provide some proof that most minority and female military members voted for Gore and Obama. Your sample of one isn't persuasive.
“My daughter went to Afghanistan and Iraq, she voted for Gore and Obama
So your daughter is a guy ?
Idiot”
So only “guys” went to Afghanistan, Iraq, or Vietnam, even WW2?
Misogynist.
Just what does Male Only Strip Club mean? Get out those ten foot poles. The word that must not be said.
Like Michael K., I would like to hear more about this "energetic material, capable of exploding when subjected to high pressure or temperatures."
Wray seems to disagree with you.
I don't see how you can draw that conclusion, since "IED" is such a vague term, as I pointed out, and that's the term he chose to use. It's like the 97% consensus on global warming, my position is well within that consensus but you would likely still call me a denier.
I would add Holder to that list. with his Kick them" comment.
At least the bomber killing spree has ended. All that death.
“That's why I put "IED's" in parenthesis. It's a ridiculous statement. Like much of what comes out of the FBI these days. 14 out of 14 did not go off. Their design is laughable. If Wray wants to call them "IEDs" he needs to explain why. At this point all we have is his assertion. Give us some proof.”
I would believe Wray assessment over some person commenting on a political blog.
“Speaking of assertions, please provide some proof that most minority and female military members voted for Gore and Obama. Your sample of one isn't persuasive.”
Obviously you never served, nor know anyone who is currently serving or you would know what I asserted is correct.
The FBI kind of tipped its hand when it edited the transcript of the Pulse nightclub shooting. It also didn't release the information that Scalise's shooter was yelling "this is for healthcare". I also can't get over how muddled the story coming out of Las Vegas was, and how they claim to this day they don't know why he did it.
So it's not that I think the FBI is bad. I think they can do great things. But they aren't immune to political and media pressures.
Inga, everything you present about yourself here is obviously a lie.
You're completely a media/internet fabrication.
Can't you quit and do something else?
What's the point of your predictable Media Matters recitation and the completely fake tale of your life?
We all know you're just a fabricator and liar. You're not convincing anybody.
Just what does Male Only Strip Club mean?
It means that it's an OSHA violation for the janitor to not wear a full hazmat suit in the morning.
That could be coal dust ("Remember the Maine!") or plutonium, depending on what you mean by "high temperature and pressure."
Shouting Thomas is a figment of the Althouse blog’s imagination. He isn’t real.
“1. "He's only trying to get attention," 2. "Ignore him," and 3. "You'll only encourage him."”
Lots of lawyers hear so I have a serious question for you:
What, legally, is a "bomb"?
A cursory search just now turned up a lot of non legal definitions all centering around a bomb being an explosive device. I could not find a legal definition though.
These devices do not seem to be or even intended to be explosive devices. Could they still, legally, be bombs?
John Henry
“Lots of lawyers hear so I have a serious question for you:
What, legally, is a "bomb"?”
Lawyers would know what is “legally a bomb”?
Chuckling.
Speaking of assertions, please provide some proof that most minority and female military members voted for Gore
Remember when Gore's lawyers burst out in cheers each time a military vote was disqualified? Even though Florida had been required by a Federal consent decree to accept them late?
Oddly you can't find a single youtube of that. It's almost like there are people who work full time memory holing that stuff, but here is a link: ELEASED: DEMOCRAT MEMO ON HOW TO DISQUALIFY MILITARY VOTES
All caps in the original, It's Drudge.
Inga
Actually I did serve. For six years.
Another casual lie from you.
Just this week the NYTs published a story that envisioned the Secret Service saving us from Trump by helping with his assassination. Nobody in the major media went crazy, and no Dems were made to answer for it.
Our rhetoric in this country is unhealthily skewed right now. I really need media outlets to see this about themselves.
Chuckling
Inga chuckles because she knows what determines if it's a bomb. It's a bomb if the Democrats need it to be a bomb. When those Occupy "bombers" got caught with a non workable device, it hardly even made the news.
Not one bomb exploded. No one was hurt = 9/11!!!!!!!!
“Actually I did serve. For six years.”
My daughter has served since 2002. She texted me from Afghanistan the night Obama won the Presidency, she showed a large room full of cheering service members. Obviously to you these people don’t exist.
Inga
Just for your benefit, a second assertion is not proof for the first assertion.
Just thought you should know.
Well we know wray like troy McClure, supervising?? Weissman on the the Enron taskforce, volunteering as a mutineer right before the bombs blew in Madrid, had stellar wind been active, might we have stopped it?
Speaking of assertions, please provide some proof that most minority and female military members voted for Gore and Obama.
Don't you know that Inga is Althouse's pet goof?
Asking her questions is an exercise futility. You get DNC talking points.
Of course there are military people who did not vote for Trump.
Wray is not a professional FBI agent. He is another bureaucrat and spouting the party line that these fake bombs were "dangerous."
Rosenstein and the DoJ career people are doing everything to keep the secret of the FBI criminal behavior in the FISA scandal.
Wray is as much part of the "Deep State" as Rosenstein. They are desperately hoping the Dims can take the House and shut down the investigation of what went on in 2016.
Inga is quite obviously a paid sock puppet of Media Matters.
Her background story is obviously a fabrication.
He (she/it) is here 24 hours a day every day. Media Matters runs her gambit, probably, with a tag team of two or three people.
You're not talking to an actual human here, guys.
Shouting Thomas is a figment of the Althouse blog’s imagination. He isn’t real.
LOL, he's real. There was a comment here the other day suggesting that Titus was a false fag operation too, (I kid Titus.) but he seems real to this guy who often spends time in Cambridge.
“Just for your benefit, a second assertion is not proof for the first assertion.
Just thought you should know.”
Jersey, your assertion that my assertion is false is an assertion only. I just thought you should know.
"Young vets are more Republican than older vets.
A closer look at which veterans exhibit distinctive attitudes reveals that recent, younger veterans are more likely to be Republicans and vote for GOP candidates. We ran a statistical model that examined veteran attitudes and vote choice for each decade of age. While veterans in their 20s are not numerous—only about 6 percent of American men this age served—they are particularly likely to prefer and identify with Republicans."
from Washington Post 2015
(to be fair, it doesn't break it down by sex and ethnicity)
Did the bomber know his bombs wouldn't explode? Did he make any test ones that did? I think it is weird a story no one got hurt in us being called terrorism and mass assassination but the Scalise shooting was random violence.
Media Matters isn't getting its money's worth.
Correction, I should have said "gender" and ethnicity.
Don't want to get in trouble with the PC police (and Chelsea Manning)
Re energetic material I seem to recall reading that the devices contained powdered sugar.
Powdered sugar can be highly explosive, for example in a sugar mill where it is finely dispersed in the air.
Compacted into a plastic pipe, not so much.
So would sugar be, legally, an explosive?
And if the device cannot, by design, explode wouldn't it simply be an ID (improvised Device) rather than an IED (Improvised Explosive Device)?
John Henry
“(...to be fair, it doesn't break it down by sex and ethnicity)”
Exactly.
Mostly the menagerie (ooh, was that dehumanizing?) of trolls here serve to reenforce the general consensus as a kind of inoculation by a weak virus. They never answer the most telling questions, they simply ignore them, leaving the impression that they have no response (which I think is probably true.)
The purpose in answering their objections is to flesh out one's thinking. I wish they were better at asking harder questions and answering hard questions, but we have to live with the weak trolls we have.
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump’s approval rating among active-duty military personnel has slipped over the last two years, leaving today’s troops evenly split over whether they’re happy with the commander in chief’s job performance, according to the results of a new Military Times poll of active-duty service members.
About 44 percent of troops had a favorable view of Trump’s presidency, the poll showed, compared to 43 percent who disapproved.
The results from the survey, conducted over the course of September and October, suggest a gradual decline in troops’ support of Trump since he was elected in fall 2016, when a similar Military Times poll showed that 46 percent of troops approved of Trump compared to 37 percent who disapproved. That nine-point margin of support now appears gone.
Shouting Thomas,
Rather than "He (she/it)", I think she/he/it is the more proper form.
We should always put women first.
John Henry
Inga's superpower is that she can throw out more non-sequiturs per unit of time than any sane person will bother to respond to. Or for that matter should.
She will prove my point some time in the next 90 seconds.
Still no word on who the couriers were for these fake bombs.
If Inga isn't a sock puppet (a long shot), then she's a complete psycho who spends 24/7 on this board voluntarily disseminating Media Matters propaganda.
Which would be the sicker, weirder identity?
Wait. Wray says they aren't hoax devices but they aren't done testing them?
In some situations an impossibility defense may be allowed in attempt cases. Lots of interesting hypotheticals for first year law students.
From Wikipedia:
Factual impossibility
An impossibility occurs when, at the time of the attempt, the facts make the intended crime impossible to commit although the defendant is unaware of this when the attempt is made.[3] In People v. Lee Kong, 95 Cal. 666, 30 P. 800 (1892), the defendant was found guilty for attempted murder for shooting at a hole in the roof, believing his victim to be there, and indeed, where his victim had been only moments before but was not at the time of the shooting.[3] Another case involving the defense of factual impossibility is Commonwealth v. Johnson,[4] in which a psychic healer was charged and convicted of fraud, despite the fact that a fictitious name was used to catch him. In United States v. Thomas[5][1] the court held that men who believed they were raping a drunken, unconscious woman were guilty of attempted rape, even though the woman was actually dead at the time sexual intercourse took place.
Legal impossibility
An act that is considered legally impossible to commit is traditionally considered a valid defense for a person who was being prosecuted for a criminal attempt. An attempt is considered to be a "legal" impossibility when the defendant has completed all of his intended acts, but his acts fail to fulfill all the required in elements of a crime in common law. Mistakes of law have proved a successful defense. An example of a failed attempt of law is a person who shoots at a tree stump, believing that he is committing attempted murder; that person cannot be prosecuted for attempted murder as there is no manifest intent to kill by shooting a stump. The underlying rationale is that attempting to do what is not a crime is not attempting to commit a crime.[6] Another example would be a party that litters by throwing a dozen apples on the ground. The party may have believed that his/her act was a crime & thus may have intended to commit a crime. However, in that jurisdiction, throwing organic or readily decomposable matter on the ground happened not to be a crime according to statute. Thus, the mistake by the party was a mistake as to law, which would insulate the party from conviction for an attempt to commit the crime in question, because the ultimate objective of the party wasn't in fact a crime. Even if the party had done what he/she intended to do, it would not have been a crime. This is distinguishable from "factual" impossibility, where if the party had done what he/she intended to do (say attempting to poison someone by giving them Coca Cola) it would have been a crime (actually poisoning someone is a crime). To put it another way, merely trying to commit a crime is insufficient to constitute a criminal attempt, what you are actually trying to achieve must be an actual crime. "Factual" impossibility therefore involves an error made in the process of carrying out a crime (a means-end blunder; generally an error as to factual reality that causes one to fail in one's criminal attempt), whereas "legal" impossibility involves an error (an error as to a legal reality; drawing wrong legal conclusions as to what is a crime) made with regard to the goals of the process. You can mess up attempting to commit an actual crime & be guilty of attempting to commit that actual crime, but you can't be guilty of attempting to commit a crime that isn't an actual crime.
However, "legal" and "factual" mistakes are not mutually exclusive. A borderline case is that of a person who shot a stuffed deer, thinking it was alive as was the case in State v. Guffey, (1953) in which a person was originally convicted for attempting to kill a protected animal out of season. In a debatable reversal, an appellate judge threw out the conviction on the basis that it is no crime to shoot a stuffed deer out of season.[1][3]
Last night my wife told me that Cesar Sayoc had been assessed as not being capable of completing a task unsupervised. She's off getting her hair done so I need to find out where she read that when she gets home. If true, then the notion that he's a patsy is considerably stronger. Or perhaps that explains the lack adequate postage and the fact that the bombs, as assembled, were harmless.
@Althouse, I don't think we guys cared very much about Cesar Sayoc the individual. Questions we'd like to see answered include (1) he seems to have been a "known wolf" so how did he go about legally getting the materials to build his bombs; (2) did someone put him up to this, and if so, who was that someone; and (3) why is this episode worse than someone sending ricin to Secretary of Defense Mattis and an envelope full of unknown powder sent to Vanessa Trump?
I think this episode demonstrates the need for common sense mail control. There's no need for anyone to send 14 packages at the same time. It's also worth noting that a simple waiting period and background check would have revealed that this guy is a convicted felon, and I think we can all agree that it's incredibly irresponsible to give a person like that access to the mail system for anything other than casting an absentee ballot.
"I would say 40% of men are soap opera men."
You're evidently more optimistic than I am.
I am Laslo.
Thomas Wictor was kicked off Twitter but is now at Gab.ai for those who enjoy him. Definitely a subset of "everone" but I find him always interesting.
He reposted this:
Juliette Akinyi Ochieng @baldilocks PRO
20 hours ago · edited
Friend called the so-called bombs "trans-devices." They look sorta like bombs, but were assembled without the essential equipment to do the job of a real bomb. Trans-bombs? I'm going with it
John Henry
The Dems and their flacks in the media are going to try to leverage this into midterm victories by playing up how Trump inspired this wacko. Reminds me a lot of how, after the JFK assassination, the media went through gyrations to make Lee Harvey Oswald emblematic of a "climate of hate" in Dallas, instead of how he was a psychopathic loser who had latched on to Communism. Well, if it weren't for crazies, the conspiracy theorists would have nothing to do. I agree with Ann we should be grateful the package mailer didn't take lessons from Bill Ayres.
Big Mike
He legally got the materials to build his bomb because it wasn't a bomb. He used things like PVC pipe, a cheap digital clock, some hardware store wire, and one of many "energetic materials" that you can get at Safeway.
"The fact that a mentally ill person can do damage and hurt real people is a reason to be vigilant and to find ways to identify and help or at least restrain those who are dangerously mentally ill."
Or we can post rainbow emojis on their Twitter feed and cheer them on when they willingly have their own cock cut off.
I am Laslo.
I think Sayoc's defense is going to be that he was only looking for safe retirement as a guest at a reasonably comfortable Federal corrections facility with free healthcare, etc.
"Don't you know that Inga is Althouse's pet goof?"
Where would the Globetrotters have been without the Washington Generals? Red Klotz did his duty. Inga does hers.
I'm not sure what the eventual crime he is indicted for will be.
Scaring the shit out of a few people ? The "bombs" were not bombs.
Probably something like "terrorist threats" although Wray seems to be following instructions to pretend these were real bombs of some sort.
After the election he will drop from sight as quickly as Blasey Ford has.
Where would the Globetrotters have been without the Washington Generals? Red Klotz did his duty. Inga does hers.
Maybe it's making everyone else feel smart.
Freder and "once written.." are the second team.
The Filipino reaction (US and back in the old country) is along the lines of "dammit, he's Pinoy!". A rueful acknowledgement.
There is a sense of communal solidarity, still, among Filipinos, and a concern for their ethnic reputation. Not quite as true among Mexicans interestingly. The Filipino culture is much more like that of an extended family. Black sheep and heroes alike are felt to be one of them, and their acts are seen to affect the collective honor.
This fellow was apparently abandoned by his Filipino father and never integrated into the extended family he should have been part of. Which is probably why he took to affecting a "Seminole" identity, a pathetic substitute for what should have been.
It's not that we commenters want to talk about this man. It's the incident, itself, and it's connotation.
Ah so like cunanan, who adopted this upper class patina, it's a strange rabbit hole we've dropped down. Could he have been an FBI informer, that would explain some things.
Perhaps the strip club owner will come into the underground garage when Cesar is arraigned. Bang. Bang. We haven't used this trick for awhile.
Exactly what I've been thinking, Darrell. And then the strip club owner conveniently dies from 'cancer'.
Wray is showing who he really answers to.
And the limits of Trumps power.
This is a revealing episode in that sense.
In that line, there is a new Angelo Codevilla essay out this week btw.
Worth a read as in a "put it all together" integration of course, the details we know.
Not optimistic. Cites Thucydides on Corcyra, and quotes "Julius Caesar"
"Between the acting of a dreadful thing
And the first motion, all the interim is
Like a phantasma, or a hideous dream..."
And also, don't pleasure yourself over the manifestations of the mentally ill.
Oh! Oh! "RuPaul brings drag queens out of the closet..." according to Drudge.
Phil 3:14 said...
"Young vets are more Republican than older vets
The young are more sentimental about race, too. Like wouldn't it be COOL to have a black president? And also more sensitive to a sitting president's perceived popularity.
He is already pushed off the front of the headlines by someone killing Jews. Let’s hope this is the last escalation for a while.
Just ran across this statement from Wray in Hot Air:
“As far as the devices themselves, it’s important to say, as is in the complaint, that even if the devices—and we’re still trying to determine whether or not they were functional, as they say, so we’re doing all kinds of analysis on that to make a definitive determination, but they did contain energetic material which, if subjected to the right combination of heat, or shock, or friction, could be dangerous to the public.”
There is parsing and then there is super parsing. This sounds like mega super parsing.
An "energetic material"? Not an explosive? Most materials contain some energy, not necessarily explosive.
"right combination of heat, or shock, or friction" well, if it is powdered sugar, and you disperse it in the air in just the right proportions, in a confined space, then hit it with an open flame, that would be the right conditions for it to explode. Under just the right conditions, you can get a really massive explosion. On the other hand, they have to be just the right conditions or nothing much happens.
"could be dangerous to the public." Not necessarily kill or maim the recipient but "dangerous to the public" (maybe) Expose someone to high concentrations of sugar and you might trigger a diabetic attack. Would that be a "danger to the public"?
This statement seems to me to confirm that they don't think the devices were any particular danger to anyone.
The more I learn about this story, the more it stinks.
I am waiting for Wednesday morning's 2,000 press release from the FBI saying, in their best Emily Letila voice "Never mind".
Buwaya,
This fellow was apparently abandoned by his Filipino father and never integrated into the extended family he should have been part of. Which is probably why he took to affecting a "Seminole" identity, a pathetic substitute for what should have been.
You have much more experience than I do, though I knew a lot of Filipinos in the Navy, so let me ask you: Do you think he looks Filipino?
If I was shown his picture and asked to guess his ethnicity, Filipino would have been way down the list.
Mexican would have been high up. Probably Indian in the top 5 as well.
John Henry
I know Althouse hates tag proliferation but seriously, no “strippers” tag yet?
"We do not know what to do with the mentally ill. You look at this guy's twitter feed, you look at his van, and you know he is mentally ill. You know his co-workers knew it. What do we do with that?"
Now throw in repeated, and violent, confrontations with the legal system. Yet this guy was walking around free.
How many thousands of similar damaged minds are out among us?
If you have a bomb that is incapable of being detonated....is it still "a bomb"?
If you have a car that has no motor....is it still "an automobile"?
Wray doesn’t want to upset the Dems who’ve promised to end all investigations into the FBI if they win the House.
In this case, IED stands for Imaginary Explosive Device.
He is a son of a Filipino, his father was a Cesar Sayoc, of a fairly well known family (allegedly of a family known for their role in Filipino martial arts), and he was named after him it seems, a very Filipino thing.
Yes he does look like a mestizo to me. Filipino mestizos have a range of appearance that can be quite ambiguous and they can pass for many ethnicities.
Crazy person shooting up synagogue about to push crazy person sending fake bombs out of the news cycle.
Thanks buwaya, I had heard info about this martial arts, but I thought it might be boasting.
And now there is a shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburg, seven or eight dead, and the shooter is an antisemitic extremist-white nationalist.
The "dreadful things" are in motion. Act, react, counter-react.
We will eventually learn that none of the devices were actual bombs. The truth of the matter is in the indictments themselves- had Sayoc actually sent things that could explode, he would have been charged with multiple counts that all carry life sentences. He wasn't indicted on those sorts of charges, and the reason is clear- they weren't functional bombs, and they probably weren't meant to be either.
If you parse Wray's statement correctly, he is making a point to not call them hoaxes because they do want to convict Sayoc of the charges that were levied against him, the most serious of which would likely get tossed out before trial if the FBI admitted that there was no intent to cause bodily harm to the recipients. It will be left to Sayoc and his attorneys to make that case before the jury, and the FBI isn't going to help him with this either.
Misplaced,
Hardin is correct about guys and Trump; or rather he would be. His mistake is ignoring the depressingly-large number of socially-feminized men out there.
There is an analogy to this when people send baking flour or soda in envelopes to people through the mail- they aren't charged with distributing weapons of mass destruction, they are charged with exactly the same kinds of charges that Sayoc is facing. Look at the indictments if you want to know what kinds of devices Sayoc is accused of sending- they clearly weren't actual bombs.
Thats what I figured, there's is so much of this story that doesn't make sense.
Cesar Sayoc wasn’t his first. A list of Trump-inspired attackers.
And who knows if there won’t be one more.
This guy was crazy AND a criminal. He should have been forced to get treatment and/or locked up.
Instead, he was constantly put on probation or given minimal jail time.
We'll have to find out what his intent was. Was he too stupid to make a working bomb OR was he just trying to scare people?
The MSM in their coverage has gone completely mad.
CNN, MSNBC, etc. have shown they have ZERO desire to report the story straight.
EVERYTHING is an attack on Trump/Republicans and facts be damned.
They constantly misrepresent and lie about Trump. Its Incredible. Its like they covered Reagan but X10 worse.
The effect of incidents like the synagogue shooting is in the likely reaction, which is certain to be even more polarizing. Explicit ethnic violence will do this. Its why in Europe the authorities are so totalitarian about suppressing ant-Muslim reactions among the white majority.
Muslims are a minority and in truth far less dangerous than the people Muslim terrorists are trying to provoke.
In the US there will be no such suppression of the anti-white male (however it is going to be termed) reaction on the part of the elite caste, and I dont mean only Jews. This is extremely dangerous.
Had the man sent bombs to Republicans he'd have $500,000 in his Gofundme account.
Rcocean at 11:26: And it's no wonder that those who watch these networks daily are in a constant state of hysteria.
When one goes "Cry "havoc!", and let slip the dogs of war", they are going to bite everyone. There is a dog for all.
This "bomb" story is starting to feel like the Russia hoax story. That's a problem for Democrats. If you plot to take down a sitting president with fake dossiers and trumped up fisa warrants, and if you then try to throw away due process and attempt to destroy a man's career with stories that have no evidence, then people are not only going to distrust you, they will start to believe that you're capable of anything, no matter how despicable.
I keep coming back to the idea that Democrats in the deep state used an insane person to set up this bomb hoax story, and they did so confident that a corrupt media will cover for them, no matter how much I tell myself it's not likely. And that's the Dems own fault; their actions have made me that cynical.
Right wing nut sends fake bombs, hurts no one. Leftmediaswine go ballistic. Left wing assassin send real bullets, wounds Congressman. Leftmediaswine forget about it in short order.
Trump: “Something has to be done.”
How about he stop fomenting hate and take a look in the mirror. Fucking hypocrite.
The truth of the matter is in the indictments themselves- had Sayoc actually sent things that could explode, he would have been charged with multiple counts that all carry life sentences. He wasn't indicted on those sorts of charges, and the reason is clear- they weren't functional bombs, and they probably weren't meant to be either.
I don't think an indictment has been brought as yet. The court has ten business days to present evidence before a grand jury who will decide that.
“Left wing assassin send real bullets, wounds Congressman. Leftmediaswine forget about it in short order.”
Heather Heyer is still dead. The guy who did it did it at a “Unite the Right” rally, a Trump supporter.
The irony of the following quote is amazing, isn't it?
"How about he stop fomenting hate and take a look in the mirror. Fucking hypocrite."
How about he stop fomenting hate and take a look in the mirror. Fucking hypocrite.
Good advice, Inga. Let's see if you can take it.
You're one of the worst of the bigotry hucksters. Take a look in your own mirror.
Fucking hypocrite, indeed.
Inga, that is just the attitude that will bring on more.
And more. This is a process, or a cycle.
One does not do well by using blood-guilt rhetoric on a population of 150 million well armed, highly capable people. It is extremely dangerous. You can get away with it vs a small, weak minority, but not "Maga".
It is also very predictable. You can't help it, and your side can't help it, it is the Thucididean model of Corcyra. It is the natural logic of civil wars and revolutions.
Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...
If you have a car that has no motor....is it still "an automobile"?
Back in 82 when we moved into our new house the telco had not yet run the wires and cell phones had not been invented.
I needed a phone for work emergencies and we investigated whether I could get a "car phone" installed in my house.
They answer was no but, they told me unofficially, if I had a junker car next to the house they could install the phone in that and I would run an extension into the house.
So the answer to your question, DBQ, is yes, under certain circumstances and probably only in Puerto Rico.
John Henry
And the bomb business is indeed superceded.
The reaction will be tremendous. The reaction to the reaction probably more so.
Well we know in the short run, left insurgent elements didn't fare well in Brazil or Chile or Argentina, and I'm being charitable, that was also the lesson in peru.
Six cops assassinated by Inga's pals at Black Lives Matter.
Not to mention numerous cities set to the torch and ransacked by mobs.
The entire Republican congressional assembly almost assassinated by Inga's friend. Two cops dead.
Plays, essays, movies and articles by the thousands advocating the assassination of the president, all authored by Inga's comrades.
Give your fucking lecture to somebody else, you blood thirsty bitch.
Inga has no clue about what is going on. She gets her talking pits each day and we see them soon after.
There is no thinking going on.
Blogger buwaya said...
Inga, that is just the attitude that will bring on more.
And more. This is a process, or a cycle.
She doesn't know any history. The soldiers cheering in Afghanistan that her daughter saw when Obama was elected, probably thought they would be going home soon.
They know better now and most are Trump voters. We should have been out of Afghanistan when I posted this on my blog in 2009.
it’s an open secret the Taliban are headquartered across the border in the city of Quetta, Pakistan, where they operate openly under the aegis of Pakistani intelligence — and the financial sponsorship of the Saudis.
Sending more troops to Afghanistan is a necessary, albeit unfortunate, rear-guard action against marauding Taliban fighters armed, trained, supplied and deployed from Quetta — and funded from Riyadh.
NATO and U.S. military command know this. They’ve complained about it over and over in military action reports. So have Treasury officials regarding Saudi funding of the Taliban.
“Saudi Arabia today remains the location where more money is going to terrorism — to Sunni terror groups and the Taliban — than any other place in the world,” testified Stuart Levey, Treasury undersecretary.
This is Viet Nam all over again. The enemy has a sanctuary and our allies are siding secretly with our enemies.
Instead, Obama sent 40,000 more troops.
Idiots never learn.
“Inga, that is just the attitude that will bring on more.
And more. This is a process, or a cycle.”
Civility bullshit. You remain always silent regarding Trump’s ravings, don’t be a hypocrite.
Inga, you are an obsessive political maniac.
You're exceptionally dangerous and psychotic.
Go find something else to do, you dumb bitch. Get some exercise. Whack off.
Do anything but continue to spout hatred and anger on this board.
This is the best thing that a stupid, vicious bitch like you can do.
Rhhardin is often right about many things, but he seems to have a blind spot when it comes to seeing flaws in men. I say "seems" because I'm never sure how much of what he says is simply meant as comedy.
Civility bullshit. You remain always silent regarding Trump’s ravings, don’t be a hypocrite.
She is incapable of learning. This is DNC BS like it was a jukebox and you put a nickel in.
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
Heather Heyer is still dead. The guy who did it did it at a “Unite the Right” rally, a Trump supporter.
He goes on trial next month. Conveniently after the election and 15 months after the incident. (What happened to his right to a speedy trial?)
And now nobody seems to want to say that the car actually touched her.
I am going to be interested to see what comes out in the trial.
I am taking bets on how much coverage the trial gets. I expect little or none.
John Henry
ST, It does no good to get made at Inga. Would you get mad and yell at a child ?
It's just nonsense. Too bad to see it coming from a grandmother but some people never learn.
Yes I don't know what to do with Afghanistan, the consequences to Pakistan if we leave is they t t p, might feed on their sponsor surely imran Khan wont do anything about this he's the ISI's housecat.
Damn autocorrect again. Mad , not Made.
The problem with Afghanistan is getting out. The logistics are terrible.
It would be Vietnam again with people hanging from helicopter skids. We'd never get our equipment out.
We'd be lucky to get our equipment out of Incerlik.
Wasn't there a wannabe insurgent group thr red neck militia that was present at Charlottesville,
Inga is back and trying to recycle the fake "Military Times" joke polls regarding military menber voting preferences.
"Military Times" is owned by Gannett, the parent of USAToday.
So you arent really reading a "military" paper, you are essentially reading another WaPo/NYT variant.
Trump will once again get between 65 and 70% of the Active Duty vote, regardless of how many people Ingas daughter can squeeze into a tent or hut.
The "Military Times" is simply attempting to pull the same crap that they pulled in 2004 when they lied about Kerry's support among the Active Duty personnel.
Same old same old.
Well, it is predictable.
Most people are like jukeboxes, they have a limited set of tunes to play, in public anyway. And they get those tunes from those popular in their circles. It is indeed like a jukebox of old, that carried the "top 40", or 100.
Its not usual for someone to write their own songs.
It doesn't matter, other than to acknowledge it as a factor and a process.
Inga: "Civility bullshit. You remain always silent regarding Trump’s ravings, don’t be a hypocrite."
LOL
Yes, this is an actual comment by a James Hodgkinson Denier and Islamic Supremacy Defender.
Buwaya: "Its not usual for someone to write their own songs."
It's also not not unusual to be loved by anyone
Nor unusual to have fun with anyone
How about he stop fomenting hate and take a look in the mirror. Fucking hypocrite.
Right. It’s just this war and that lying son of a bitch, Johnson.
"Fields is a neo-Nazi, white supremacist, not a partisan. Hodgkinson was a mainstream Democrat activist who volunteered for Bernie."
Inga refuses to even recognize Hodgkinsons existence, much less his strong democrat party affiliation and screaming "this is for healthcare" as he attempted his mass political murder schtick.
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
“Heather Heyer is still dead. The guy who did it did it at a “Unite the Right” rally, a Trump supporter.”
Fields is a neo-Nazi, white supremacist, not a partisan. Hodgkinson was a mainstream Democrat activist who volunteered for Bernie. His targets were Republicans.
It is going to be interesting how the media will blame Trump for Robert Bowers. Not an easy needle to thread on this one, but I bet they find a way.
The contours of Charlottesville resembles an incident in Greenville NC in 1979, between communists and the Klan, nearly forty years later
Inga, what are the talking points for Bowers that have been sent out?
The former developed a more popular front sensibility.
Does half of the country really believe what the FBI has to say about anything these days? They have really fucked up their reputations to the point that I agree with others on this thread, show us the proof that these "bombs" were ever a physical danger to anyone. You no longer have the street cred to make assertions and have us willingly believe you.
“Hodgkinson was a mainstream Democrat activist who volunteered for Bernie. His targets were Republicans.”
He was a nutcase, yet you paint him as “mainstream”, you don’t understand how disingenuous this is? So if Fields was a Nazi, yes, he also is a Trump supporter. No one here is saying mainstream people left and right are doing these crimes, but you.
“It is of course true that the overwhelming majority of Republicans are not violent. It is likewise true that nothing about conservative ideology or its program requires violent action. Nonetheless, the relationship between the two parties and violence is not symmetrical, and the fact that alleged bomber Cesar Sayoc had a strong identification with Trump and his partisan message is not a coincidence. The Republican Party encompasses an extremist fringe that nurtures violence in a way the Democratic Party does not.”
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/bomber-cesar-sayoc-is-trump-republican-extremism.html
The real question is whether the Dems can leverage Sayoc to their advantage. Seems to me that the mental illness angle isn't as useful to them as the Trump Stickers / Registered GOP angle.
I was in a staff meeting when Sayoc was captured by the police. One of the Trump haters on my team snarled, "Trump supporter. Figures." THIS is the angle that the Dems need to exploit, if they're going to gain back the Blue Wave.
It reminds me of the 2006 Todd Akin brouhaha, which led to the Dems taking back the House. The truth didn't matter at that time; all that mattered was to portray the GOP as rape apologists. This year, the Dems have already tried rape apologists (Kavanaugh), racists (Honduran Caravan), and now crazed bombers (Sayoc). They need for something to stick, and maybe "fake pipe bombs" is the solution for them.
They didn't get any help today, that's for sure. The news from Pittsburgh is horrifying. It's shoving Sayoc off the front page.
Nonetheless, the relationship between the two parties and violence is not symmetrical, and the fact that alleged bomber Cesar Sayoc had a strong identification with Trump and his partisan message is not a coincidence. The Republican Party encompasses an extremist fringe that nurtures violence in a way the Democratic Party does not.”
That's garbage.
The truth is, it's much easier to see minor violence (like Occupy, Antifa, Anti-Globalization, etc) as not violence if you are on the left because you agree with them a little and you see them as angered into what they are doing by someone who also angers you.
There are fringes -people who will shoot and send bombs- on both sides and neither side wants those people or will own them.
But there is one side that routinely gets stopped from bringing buckets of urine and excrement to National Conventions. One party that had riots that stopped candidates from being able to speak at rallies during the 2016 season.
You want Republicans to own Sayoc? Then the left owns the Pulse shooting.
Tell me why that's not fair, or stop making this garbage argument.
I have yet to see evidence of the viability of any of these 'bombs' and don't believe they were intended to detonate. So why is it any different from sending some white powder that looks like a toxic substance and was clearly meant to appear so?
I'm not reading this thread, nor am I reading much about this story.
Insane man sends dud bombs. Big deal.
Condemn his act of violence, send him to jail. End of story.
Why is everyone else making a big deal about it? Answer obvious.
2010, and that was a three way race with thr establishment candidate the populist steelman and akin,
They were throwing thr corruption and hurricane cards back then.
Bill Peschel said: "Why is everyone else making a big deal about it?"
Because the Dems need something -- ANYTHING -- that can pick up momentum leading into the midterms. Nothing has worked so far, so they're trying Sayoc.
In Backgammon, if you're way behind your opponent, you shift tactics and play what's called a "back game". The tactic doesn't work most of the time. But you use it if you can't win a "race game", because it's your best chance of winning.
That's what the Dems are doing here. It's a Back Game. Sort of like the Hail Mary. It seems ridiculous to try it, but at this point they have no choice. They have to stop the Kavanaugh momentum.
White supremacy is a collectivist ethos, which is why they are drawn to a leftist ideology like fascism.
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