September 1, 2018

What would we do without sociologists?

From "The ‘Whitening’ of Asian Americans/Recent lawsuits suggesting reverse discrimination have aligned the interest of white Americans and Asian Americans, raising complex questions about identity and privilege" by Iris Kuo (The Atlantic):
This alignment of certain Asians with whites evokes historical instances of ethnic groups migrating from minority status to becoming part of the majority racial group. Sociologists have a name for this phenomenon: “whitening.” It refers to the way the white race has expanded over time to swallow up those previously considered non-whites, such as people of Irish, Italian, and Jewish heritage. In the next wave of whitening, some sociologists have theorized, Asians and Latinos could begin to vanish into whiteness, as some assimilate culturally into white norms and culture, and become treated and seen by whites as fellow whites. “The idea of who is white and which groups belong and don’t belong to it has been malleable and has changed. It is different across place and time,” Jonathan Warren, a University of Washington sociology professor who has written about whitening, told me....

I’ve always been proud of my Taiwanese roots, but lately, I’ve started to question how much of my culture I’ve voluntarily released in the effort to belong in a country dominated by white people. American society is built around what white people like and don’t like. They decide which foreign foods are “in” (bubble tea, burritos) and what’s “gross” or “exotic” (menudo, say, or marinated pig ears). American standards for acceptable behavior—the way people talk, the language they use, the food they eat in a mainstream company—are carefully tailored to the tastes of white people. It makes sense. White people run the country and the vast majority of its institutions. They hold most of the wealth. Perhaps it shouldn’t be surprising that some Asian-Americans are aligning themselves with white people when it comes to university admissions. Appealing to white taste, after all, is a baseline requirement for advancement. But at what price?
I don't think it's fair to say that the lawsuit is "some Asian-Americans... aligning themselves with white people." The plaintiffs are showing that Asian-Americans are, because of race, being treated worse than white people. And they're hearing the argument that for them to succeed will require other non-whites to lose out. So why don't they back off and accept the worse treatment? Just be nice.

Which actually, ironically, sounds like a demand that they act white.

252 comments:

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RobinGoodfellow said...

“Blogger Ralph L said...
I thought Menudo was Puerto Rican.“


Mofongo is Puerto Rican. Menudo is Mexican.

The Crack Emcee said...

BUMBLE BEE said...

"Mockturtle said about understanding the past
Yes. Quite literally, you had to be there.
That's why Crack understands it so well he's stuck there. He never tires of it."

Having family that talked of almost nothing else when I was a child - because it was the MLK era - might have something to do with it. Living during Jim Crow might have something to do with it. Whites being dishonest, as Bumblebee is here, since my age and history are no secret, might have something to do with it. Oh, and the injustice might have something to do with it.

But I don't expect racist Right-Wing whites to grasp any of that. It's not their way. They're not really human beings, as the Indians say.

The Crack Emcee said...

The crimes whites have committed against blacks are so wild and multifaceted, it's amazing to any fair person that they'd put up a fight about it.

That they do, when the evidence is so overwhelming - and goes even down to the cellular level - doesn't speak any better of them than during slavery days.

Karen said...

Last week, I went to a forum on race at a local church. The speaker, an African-American pastor who was very engaging and funny, told us that white people tend to see themselves as individuals and to see others as individuals while minorities see themselves as part of a collective and have solidarity with the collective. He seemed to think that that was the way it should be. But I had to ask myself, would it be a good thing if people saw themselves as part of a collective? I don’t think so. From my perspective, each person is an individual of supreme value for whom Jesus Christ gave his life. Perhaps when some people of minority background join with white people, what is actually happening is that those people begin to see themselves as individuals and want to dwell with others who see themselves as individuals, each having their own thoughts and opinions.

etbass said...

"That's why I'm the center of things here."

I loved that one.

mockturtle said...

From my perspective, each person is an individual of supreme value for whom Jesus Christ gave his life. Perhaps when some people of minority background join with white people, what is actually happening is that those people begin to see themselves as individuals and want to dwell with others who see themselves as individuals, each having their own thoughts and opinions.

Amen, Karen!

Earnest Prole said...

My daughter did a DNA test and she is 9% Ashkenazi Jewish. Is that a race or a region?

It's a genetically distinct ethnicity, like being a Celt.

What DNA test did your daughter use? I'm thinking about doing one but I want to be certain it offers this level of precision.

ccscientist said...

If you don't want to become part of American culture, why move here? My Persian friends are so happy to be here and have wonderfully assimilated. Except for the Sari on grandma, most Indians have as well. Your complaint is that Americans don't like pig ears? That's it? And yet there is no law here against eating any weird food you like.

ALP said...

"...while minorities see themselves as part of a collective and have solidarity with the collective."

So...minorities are like the Borg?

Pugsley the Pug said...

Hagar said...
In my early days in this country, I was more than once informed how disgusting it was to see me cutting up and eating my dinner in the European manner - fork in my left hand and knife in the right. So, not wishing to offend (or rather to stand out and be criticized), I practised doing it the American way.

All I can say to the Emily Post table manner elitists is “Oh. My. Gawd!” I am a natural born American (of Norwegian-German-Scottish descent, not a Norwegian-German-Scottish American as the pc people would categorize me) and I like to cut my food with my fork in my left hand and my knife in my right hand and then transfer my fork to my right hand after putting the knife down - because I am right handed, not because it was an American culture thing!!!! Hagar, please feel free to cut and eat your food any way you want - Diversity rules, as my liberal friends constantly remind me.

traditionalguy said...

The Whitness was the same, but Catholic Irish were strange, submissive minded to the Monarchs appointed over them by Latin rituals and very uneducated. The Presbyterian/Scots Irish were strong and well educated, independent minded and willing to fight for what was theirs. These did not mix.

wholelottasplainin said...

Crack: "Just horrible people."
**************************************

“If you get up in the morning and you meet an a**hole, you met an a**hole. If you meet nothing but a**holes all day, you’re the a**hole.”

Howard said...

Menoodle is good when you substitute chuck roast for tripe. It reduces your cultural appropriation by 30% and taste like chili with homina-homina-hominy rather than a rendering plant.

wholelottasplainin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Howard said...

These are Your People Crack: Jesus sure has a cruel sense of humor.

wholelottasplainin said...

The Crack Emcee said...
The crimes whites have committed against blacks are so wild and multifaceted, it's amazing to any fair person that they'd put up a fight about it.

******************

Snort.

Yeah, whites are the Evil Ones.

That's why the Ruanda national anthem is "Tut-tut tutsi good byyyeee!!!"

Howard said...

Fixed Jay's error.

Blogger Jay Elink said...
Snort.

Yeah, whites are the Evil Ones.

That's why the Nazi national anthem is "Horst-Wessel-Lied!!!"

wholelottasplainin said...

Ya know, Miss Ann, it's very obvious that you, in order to drive up your clicks, are engaging in that 80's "Games People Play" called, "Let's You and Him Fight."

So you invite Crack back to spend his days in front of a Whitey-invented computer to make outrageous racist statements about a race that he OWES his computer to, his welfare to, his comforts to, his EBT card credits to.

It's utterly transparent. clicks are all---even to a law professor.

I can hear you now: "So WHAT if Cracks' a stark-raving mad self-hating racist---I gotta business to run here!"

snort

wholelottasplainin said...

Howard inhaled deeply from the bong and said...
Fixed Jay's error.

Blogger Jay Elink said...
Snort.

Yeah, whites are the Evil Ones.

That's why the Nazi national anthem is "Horst-Wessel-Lied!!!"

*****************

Can anyone make sense of that? For starters, what "nation" IS that song the national anthem of today?

Who sings it today as their national anthem?

Howard said...

Got it wrong Jay. She just getting you Repudlickins to openly express your vile hate and stupidity without any inhibition, filter or social grace.

madAsHell said...

I do not believe Crack is black.

He used to have self-promotional pictures on his web site, but I don't see them anymore. If he ain't black, then he's put a lot of effort into an elaborate ruse.

wholelottasplainin said...

Crack: Look, from where I sit, this is not hard: Whites have created this crazy world they live in where few can tell what's real and they've done that because they're crazy and don't want to deal with reality themselves.

****************

Yeah sure. It's whites who practice voodoo and Santeria. On a huge scale. Gutted chicken sacrifices are everywhere, man!

It's Whites who believe that Elijah Muhammed visited the MotherShip.

You can't walk down the street w/o seeing a white person practicing New Age shit.

Blacks have no religion at all! They're all ultra-rational human beings.

Snort

Freeman Hunt said...

"Carry this through to it's logical conclusion and eventually we'll start getting to things like, if the Civil War was about slavery and not states rights, as our history books said, then government's been lying to us, etc."

Our history books didn't say that, and that was at least twenty years ago. We were taught that it was all about slavery. They even had us watch the entire Roots series in class.

Perhaps things aren't as dire as you think. I don't think the threads here are representative of people generally. In many ways, they're better, but in some ways, they're worse.

wholelottasplainin said...

Howard said...
Got it wrong Jay. She just getting you Repudlickins to openly express your vile hate and stupidity without any inhibition, filter or social grace.

*******************

By posting an utterly UN-factual post??

snort

Howard, has anyone ever told you something you have just confirmed here, that you have the mental capacity of a cherrystone clam?

FIDO said...

I like how the author tries to conflate 'wants to stop being kicked in the fork by liberal colleges' as 'being white'.

Howard said...

Thanks for confirming the bullseye, Jay

C R Krieger said...

Michael, at 9/1/18, 11:33 AM nailed. It isn't "white privilege", it is "Anglo-Saxon privilege." Remember, back around 1600 (AD/CE) China had the biggest GDP, Then they closed the shipyards. Otherwise the sociologists would be telling a different story.

Regards — Cliff

dustbunny said...

Earnest Prole, it was the 22 and me standard test.

langford peel said...

What a waste of effort in this thread.

Don't listen to the elites or the professors.

Listen to your Grandma.

Stay away from those people. They are just no good.

Ray - SoCal said...

Thanks Crack for the good article about you.

Ray - SoCal said...

Miscegenation laws seemed to have varied by state. Some states never had them.

In Ca, many Chinese would go to Mexico to marry a White.

In the US, growth was slow due to barriers. In Mexico, Cortez took over the entire country. In the US, expansion was a lot slower. I’m sure this impacted the inter marriage with natives.

Ray - SoCal said...

Right wing racist keeps on getting mentioned.

So those of the left can’t be racists, such as Woodrow Wilson, Margaret Sanger, or even Hitler?

Earnest Prole said...

it was the 22 and me standard test

Many thanks. To speculate on your daughter's results, some European Jews found it more hospitable to live as expatriates in Muslim North African countries such as Morocco and Algeria.

Clyde said...

buwaya said...
"We don't consider ourselves white people"

Go to Asia, or anywhere non-white, and you certainly are "white people" first, and American second.


I served in West Germany for 5-1/2 years. The Germans were "white people,' but they were not MY people, even though I have significant German ancestry. When I was in West Berlin, I was stationed at a facility we shared with the British. With them, I at least shared a common language (mostly), but again, even though I have significant British ancestry, they were not MY people. I had more in common with my fellow Americans in the military, even the non-white ones, than I did with the people I shared blood ancestry with, because a shared culture matters more than that.

I'm not even going to bother answering Crack. His Farrakhanesque pathological hatred of white people makes him unreachable. Let him wallow in his hate.

glenn said...

I’m about as White as it gets and if I don’t get some innards once in a while I get really cranky. Tripe stew, menudo, makes no difference.

Rusty said...

Soul food?
Soul food is just poor people food. It was just appropriated by the black community.
I'm sorry Crack is a slave.
I didn't enslave him.
He can choose not to be a slave.
Free country and all that.
But I suppose there's no grift in not being a slave.
So the con continues.

The Crack Emcee said...

Karen said...

"From my perspective, each person is an individual of supreme value for whom Jesus Christ gave his life."

Ok, I can see a flaw in your thinking (starting with that NOT being your perspective, but one that's been handed down since antiquity - when we didn't know shit - but, for some reason, still not abandoned). It allows you to deny how the sweep of white's racist history MADE the black "community" (from strangers from all over West Africa) that they despise so much.

I keep suggesting reparations as a way to put an ending on this, but, as usual, whites don't want an ending - unless it's on their terms. So they think blacks are going abandon each other, or justice, as Africans did us, or like whites repugnantly "disown" their kids, but, sorry, we're not going to do that.

We KNOW how we got here, Y'all.

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...

“If you get up in the morning and you meet an a**hole, you met an a**hole. If you meet nothing but a**holes all day, you’re the a**hole.”

But I don't, because I try to avoid white people during the day. I get up at 4AM, before most people wake, to do my shopping, etc., and live in a neighborhood filled with minorities - blacks, Asians, Mexicans - so I don't even SEE whites unless I watch the TV, which is usually tuned to C-SPAN, with the sound down.

BTW - thanks to you, I met an asshole.

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"These are Your People Crack: Jesus sure has a cruel sense of humor."

They nailed him to a cross. What do you expect?

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...

"Snort.

Yeah, whites are the Evil Ones.

That's why the Ruanda national anthem is "Tut-tut tutsi good byyyeee!!!""


But, but, but - from everything I've read - they (and all the other groups that lived there) were doing fine BEFORE THE GERMANS AND BELGIANS SHOWED UP.

Are they white?

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...

"So you invite Crack back to spend his days in front of a Whitey-invented computer to make outrageous racist statements about a race that he OWES his computer to, his welfare to, his comforts to, his EBT card credits to."

This is an interesting way to think, which I would agree with, if racist Right-Wing whites would use it and didn't deny it was blacks, demanding our freedom from THEM - not their demanding freedom from a king - that finally taught America what "freedom" actually means. See, I think everybody in America owes somebody something, but whites insist it's all one-way. (When was the last time you heard a white person giving blacks, or Asians credit for inventing ANYTHING in America?) Meaning, they LIE. They owe this entire place, in part, to blacks. We were forced to build it, have given our blood to defend it, and gave the nation - including whites - it's real reason for existing.

We're all just waiting for whites to get a clue and join the human race.

The Crack Emcee said...

Howard said...

"Got it wrong Jay. She just getting you Repudlickins to openly express your vile hate and stupidity without any inhibition, filter or social grace."

It's wild - and a good indication of how racist they are - that they don't see that, and think this is all about me, me, me. The racists have MADE IT about me, here, for years.

It's a perfect example of how lynchings used to happen offline.

The Crack Emcee said...

Jay Elink said...

"Yeah sure. It's whites who practice voodoo and Santeria. On a huge scale. Gutted chicken sacrifices are everywhere, man!

It's Whites who believe that Elijah Muhammed visited the MotherShip.

You can't walk down the street w/o seeing a white person practicing New Age shit.

Blacks have no religion at all! They're all ultra-rational human beings.

Snort"

That smug "snort" always kills me, because you're such an idiot, to feel that good about your own comments is a real loser move. I bet you don't have many male friends, do you? People who enjoy you laughing at your own jokes? Yeah, I'm sure.

So let me see: whites bring people from the Third World here, and - rather than introduce them to The Enlightenment - they deny them the right to read and write, etc., so white's descendants can "snort" when one of the black's descendants, who doesn't buy into the bullshit, remarks on how difficult it is to learn in the crazy mystical marketplace of Nazi nonsense whites have created? Is that how it works?

I stand by my statement that it is whites who have created the current problem of us living in an Age of Unreason.

The Crack Emcee said...

Freeman Hunt said...

"Our history books didn't say that, and that was at least twenty years ago."

Good. But you HAVE to know you didn't get the same books blacks do. We got left-overs from the past - in California.

"We were taught that it was all about slavery."

Funny, but the guys over at West Point just released a video - finally - settling the matter, so you'd have to agree, it wasn't settled before, no?

"They even had us watch the entire Roots series in class."

Again - Roots wouldn't have been necessary if it was a known story in America before that. So we're talking about something America was ignorant of - deliberately - for hundreds of years, as it pretended (and still pretends) otherwise. These are crimes.

"Perhaps things aren't as dire as you think."

Come on, Freeman, I thought we were friends. I don't think things are dire - I think some whites in this comment section are assholes - as in the Republican Party. It's something we - people like you and I and Ann and Meade, etc. - have to fix and deal with. And we are. By being reasonable and fighting for that.

"Hi", BTW - I've wondered where you are.

I don't think the threads here are representative of people generally. In many ways, they're better, but in some ways, they're worse.

The Crack Emcee said...

Freeman,

"I don't think the threads here are representative of people generally. In many ways, they're better, but in some ways, they're worse."

How would you know? Whenever whites gang up on me, anywhere, I think it's bad. When they can do it and "good" whites just stand around and watch - as happens here - that's worse.

Black people should be able to lead normal lives, just like whites do, but that has never been allowed to happen in the entire history of the United States. We're like catnip to whites.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ray said...

"Thanks Crack for the good article about you."

You're welcome. Did you see the part about straightening up for my wife? What a fucking waste that was.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ray said...

"Right wing racist keeps on getting mentioned.

So those of the left can’t be racists, such as Woodrow Wilson, Margaret Sanger, or even Hitler?"

You miss the point: What doesn't get mentioned, is how - if you're black - you're destined to live your life trapped, between these two groups of racists, each delivering their version of it to you - and demanding you join them as though you can't have your own ideas - as each racist white person swears they're BETTER white people than those other guys. Wrong:

White people suck - in both parties - because they both refuse to look at themselves, and their version of racism, as anything but perfect, so it's everybody else (who has been watching and enduring them, abusing them, and their families and friends) who's got it wrong..

Put Woodrow Wilson on the liberal side and Hitler on the conservative - where do blacks go? To Hell.

The Crack Emcee said...

Rusty said...

"Soul food is just poor people food. It was just appropriated by the black community."

Oh, Man, it's great to see/hear/read the thoughts of people who I KNOW - 100% - don't hang with blacks, have no black friends, don't understand black culture, etc., as they pontificate what they THINK they know out in the open. Fucking HILARIOUS.

My black friends would love laughing at Rusty.

Lovernios said...

Y'all should try listening to some, so you don't sound silly, constantly running to one line in one speech and proving to all who know King - immediately - you know nothing about this American giant - or his desire for this nation.

Perhaps King's most overlooked, and most important, line in that speech: "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal'."

I think this is Crack's central point, that America has not yet risen up and is not yet living its creed. I think its a fair point to discuss without without bringing up historical global slavery, Civil War casualty statistics, and other diversions.

ccscientist said...

I was interested in Sociology and Psychology in college (long ago) until I realized that any point of view at all had some eloquent spokesperson for it--ie it was all just opinions.

PresbyPoet said...

It isn't choosing to be white, it is choosing to be a melting pot American. Some of my ancestors were Germans who were invited to move to Russia to be a buffer with the Turks. For a 100 years they lived in Russia, and stayed German. 140 years ago they moved to America, and rapidly became American. They melted. They chose to become Americans. This has been the genius of America, you could come from anywhere in the world and become an American.

Today, the anti-amerikan party invites people to be a fruit salad. Come and don't melt, come and be an indigestible lump that lives in amerika, but does not choose to be an American. This is what the current civil war is about at its heart. What does it mean to be an American?

By saying white is bad, particularly white males,so you don't want to be "white" or melt, they turn America's invitation on its head. My name for those on the left is now the fruit salad party, .

Caligula said...

1. Lawsuits against Harvard seek equal treatment for Asian-Americans.

2. Equal treatment is hereby assumed to reflect the interests of white Americans.

3. Therefore Asian-Americans seeking to be treated as equal must be, if not actually acting white, aligning themselves with white values (aka "whitening" themselves).

4. In sociology, this is called "logic," and sometimes even "science."



Besides, it's well known that in Taiwan white people don't run the country or the vast majority of its institutions: Asian people do. Therefore, Taiwanese people must be white (for only white people would do such things).

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