I have not watched one second of the past week's Death-o-Rama. I'm not reading any articles like the ones listed above. I'm not looking enough to be able to say what I'm afraid I'd have to say if I looked — What a sordid display!
So I withhold my judgment — my judgment and my participation.
May all who died in the past 2 weeks — the known and the unknown — rest in peace.
"Let the dead bury their own dead" — Jesus Christ.
ADDED: I'll let Scott do the analysis. No annalysis here, just Scottalysis:
Scott Adams talks about how President Trump became the main theme of McCain’s funeral. And coffee. https://t.co/Ukx7wIXcGr
— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) September 2, 2018
Posts
364 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 364 of 364But it is sometimes amusing to see how spun up one can get them - then one has to go and do important things, like take care of the laundry and play with the dog.
Dreyfus for instance was a cause for the tenant of boulangers supporters and the case dragged on for nearly 50 years.z
Rabel: I made that point for irony, if you read it in context. Amusing how it carries like a “telephone wire” of yore.
The notion of disinviting Trump and Palin (and who knows who else) and then bringing the uninvited into the funeral is so stupid and petty. This may require time for the true partisans to see.
oh.
I remember Madonna getting a great deal of attention for comparing McCain to Hitler during her concerts. It was insane but I don’t remember people being that outraged. He was Hitler because he chose Palin.
I really enjoy how nearly all here scroll by the asshole.
Well, I looked and couldn't find the screen grab. Must not be quick enough, because my headline showed: " Paul Manafort's daughter gets a new name … ".
John McCain did for partisan healing what Barack Obama did for racial healing.
Yo, Pedro. Fuck off.
In truth, this isn’t about partisan divide: Trump has equal numbers of haters on the left and the right who ostensibly vote for different parties.
"What a sordid display!"
Exactly. And thanks.
But it raises the question: do they know how sordid it was, and wallow in the sordidity on purpose, sticking it to the deplorables, celebrating the superiority of the anointed, deliberately aggrandizing the petty officer in his pettiness? Or did they have actually have no clue, secure in their obliviousness?
Three hurrahs for Ritmo. No matter the opponent! He always out flanks them intellectually and stirs them up like a guerrilla warrior Lawrence of Arabia did the Turks. But that is a war too old. My respect for Ritmo only grows.
Transcend partisan politics:" Hivespeak for "Submit to the Hive and fall in line."
@Tradguy: “Maximum disorder was our equilibrium”
~ T. E. Lawrence, “Seven Pillars of Wisdom” (1926)
Ritmo is an entropy machine.
Not surprising that the Trump haters don't really understand how the funereal politics is counter-productive to their cause.
I did predict, tongue in cheek, that by staying away from the funeral Trump would ensure that the funeral would have nothing to do with him.
Sebastian,
They have no clue- they really did think it advances their cause, and nothing you and I will write will change that. I found it hilarious.
Why do Trump haters think this deranged Trump-focus makes Trump look bad rather than making themselves look petty? If you’re going to celebrate the man, celebrate the man. Don’t make it about the man he’s not. But, I guess, the hate is too strong. And thus, pettiness reigns.
So, why do it? To make Trump look even pettier in case he responds in kind? So, it’s all a dare? Of who can out-petty the other?
I would expect thinking people, and people with lives, to check out of this circus.
@Tradguy: Here’s another literary gem for you:
“Absence, the highest form of presence”
~James Joyce “A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man” (1916)
PeePee Tape - your concern for the deficit is charming.
Will you care about the deficit when the Democrats force Medicare for all, and the deficit explodes making the current state a piker in comparison?
Oh and - Obama started it.
Under the Obama, we got exploding deficit spending and a crap economy.
But! a nice pant crease.
The Left has to Wellstone every funeral.
They just can't help themselves.
It's part of their psychopathy.
"PeePee Tape - your concern for the deficit is charming.
Will you care about the deficit when the Democrats force Medicare for all, and the deficit explodes making the current state a piker in comparison?"
DickinBimbos: you are posing a logical question to someone you'd probably find on a street corner ranting about how Moon Men working with rogue CIA agents were behind the Dick York/Dick Sargent Darren switch on BEWITCHED. And that's on one of his good days, when he's taken his meds
Anybody else remember John McCain’s support of the IRS targeting Tea Party groups?
Or John McCain’s role with the CIA/Democrat made up lies we call the Steele dossier?
Wasn’t that great?
Above everything John McCain sought approval from the media and the celebrity class. In the end, those that knew him best took that same approval-seeking petty torch and made it the big grande finale'
Sad.
"Even ordinary soldiers do as well."
Yes. Good thing!
William - lol. True.
Obama averaged 1.8% GDP growth and 1.25 trillion dollars a year added to the debt.
McCain was Wellstoned.
It is quite amazing to see Democrats and progressives celebrate the number one warmonger in Congress. John McCain never saw a war he didn't want to start. A nation he didn't want to rebuild. A soldier he didn't want to sacrifice in service of his ego. Iraq and Afghanistan weren't enough for this bellicose blowhard. He want war with Iran . With Syria. Even with Russia over Georgia and the Ukraine.
I guess all of the sailors he killed when he crashed his plane on the aircraft carrier was not enough death for him.
Now people like Ritmo and Inga and Roachy Vitalis love him. Celebrate him.
Truly history begins for these dotards in the last five minutes.
.
Now people like Ritmo and Inga and Roachy Vitalis love him. Celebrate him.
That's because I can respect someone without agreeing with him, let alone following him.
Which makes me different from you natural-born bootlickers.
Above everything John McCain sought approval from the media and the celebrity class.
He liked being liked. But that is because he had the capacity to be liked.
Unlike you and the others like you.
PeePee Tape - your concern for the deficit is charming.
Will you care about the deficit when the Democrats force Medicare for all, and the deficit explodes making the current state a piker in comparison?
Oh and - Obama started it.
Started what? The 2007 recession?
Are you aware that deficits increase during recessions?
Trump is increasing deficits during supposedly good economic times. Very responsible.
But then, if Republicans had a sense of responsibility they wouldn't be Republicans.
You don't respect him. You are using him as a club to beat Trump. It seems you identify with the establishment to the degree that you are embracing Bush simply because he hates Trump.
One good thing about McCain is that the taxpayers won't be on the hook for a reflecting pool like the one they built for RFK. There will a natural pool of urine from the many people who will take a trip to piss on his grave. That's a win/win.
You don't respect him. You are using him as a club to beat Trump.
McCain sets an example for decency in a man involved in public life. One that is in stark contrast to Trump. It's worth celebrating - an integral part of who we are as a decent people, no matter how easily Trump misleads you sheep, the ungulates of the American flock.
Of course, if you had any manliness or decency or integrity you would understand this. But you don't. You are a Republican. No one looks up to you. You just do whatever is expedient while still satisfying your pathological need for imaginary order.
I really enjoy how nearly all here scroll by the asshole.
You'll have to be more specific.
McCain as a child of privilege who had his mistakes and fatal errors covered up like the Kennedy's and the Bushes. His adimirals smoothed the way so he was in a position to make a horrible error in crashing his plane on an aircraft carrier and killing hundreds of sailors. McCain is part and parcel of the dynastic ruling family tradition. A Sennators son like the song says. Only this time an admirals son.
The Clintons,Bushes, Cuomos, Gores, Kenndys and McCains are a cancer. There can no longer be dynasties in America.
The ancien regime should take note. The deplorables are sharpening the blade.
Well I doubt a lot of folks would go out of their way to piss on his grave - it will be on the grounds of Annapolis and that would not be a proper thing to do no matter what you thought of him.
Also - he did not crash on a carrier and did not start the Forrestal fire - despite internet statements to the contrary. The Forrestal fire was started when an ordinance worker tested a Sidewinder missle with the testing device in active mode instead of passive mode - which meant the testing device sent an electrical signal to the missle which fired it, whereupon it flew across the deck and struck the plane next to McCain's, starting the conflagration and forcing McCain to crawl out of his aircraft over the nose and jump to the deck to escape. He then joined the fire fighting efforts.
I was in the Navy from 1970 to 1982 - so Vietnam and Jimmy Carter's Gulf Crisis were my conflicts. I also served with two former Hanoi Hilton surviors, one of which (my boss for awhile) spent more time there than McCain. The fires on the Forrestal and Oriskany were used as learning exercises for all of us new folks.
You can tell how decent a man is by how well he is eulogized, and by whom and how many. These are inspiring speeches to watch.
The Althouse Republicrowd here would spit on a funeral of George Washington if it were held today. Of this I have no doubt. All you have to do is ask them what they consider to be a virtue, or the definition of a decent man. They have no answer. They have no interest and they have no clue.
All they have is a pathological fear of natural change, an obsessive, ideological drive for power, and a need to appeal to only the worst instincts left in America for holding on to those things. There is no scoundrel unscrupulous enough to lead them to this (Trump), or no constituency sick and evil enough to propel him (white supremacist professional victimologist-bigots), in getting there. And that's all they're left with. Hating a man so decent and so beloved that they must spit on his grave to keep their orange king on the high end of the political teeter totter.
It's worse than pathetic. It's small and repugnant.
McCain was many things. A decent man was not one of them
He was bitter, petty and vindictive. A truly small man who was puffed up like a blowfish because of his love of traitorous attacks on his party and the people who elected him.
Nothing illustrated how small he was more than the way he went out. Clinging to power and betraying his constituents by leaving them without representation in service of his ego.
McCain as a child of privilege who had his mistakes and fatal errors covered up like the Kennedy's and the Bushes. His adimirals smoothed the way so he was in a position to make a horrible error in crashing his plane on an aircraft carrier and killing hundreds of sailors. McCain is part and parcel of the dynastic ruling family tradition. A Sennators son like the song says. Only this time an admirals son.
Oh for god's sake, you amateur class warrior. I'm sure this is what you tell yourself to feel comforted while the blonde-bootlicked pumpkin got multiple deferments for "bone spurs" (on a foot he can't remember) and populates his cabinet with more billionaires to whom he gives more government favors and tax cuts and policy breaks than anyone in history. While still refusing to let the American people the interests he's hiding in those "secret" tax returns. But I guess this must all make his dead rich daddy Fred Trump real proud.
He was bitter, petty and vindictive. A truly small man who was puffed up like a blowfish because of his love of traitorous attacks on his party and the people who elected him.
And this is why America hates you. You can't commit "treason" against a party, only a country. But you Republicriminals think your party IS the country.
McCain knew better, and it's what makes him a heck of a lot less bitter, petty and vindictive than the average Republican voter, let alone the professional politicians who tell you what to think. McCain was also forgiving - a virtue that no Republican has.
The people who eulogized Songbird are card carrying members of the uni-party. The ones in deadly conflict with President Trump and the people. I expect nothing less of the globalists and the Deep State.
They had to celebrate one of their own.
The people who eulogized Songbird are card carrying members of the uni-party. The ones in deadly conflict with President Trump and the people. I expect nothing less of the globalists and the Deep State.
Let's translate this garbage:
"Songbird" = peel's way of saying that torture works, but that it shouldn't have worked on McCain.
"uni-party" = peel's way of saying that fascism is better than a duopolistic failed political class nonetheless consisting of better people than the fascist
"conflict with President Trump and the people" = a fascist's way of pretending that Trump, with his 60% disapproval rating, has deep popular support.
"Deep State" = a rejection of Teddy Roosevelt's professional system of public servants, to revert back to one of lackeys and toadies who would be more loyal to a person or party machine (like Trump's) than to their jobs and constitutional responsibilities.
McCain was the third most disliked senator in America.
Yes, it appears another one showed up.
Trump administration honored McCain by flying him to DC on air force two.
Arashi:
Thanks for your service.
You know the vast majority of us who actually served during Vietnam do not give a crap about people like Trump who got deferments. Hell's bells, Vietnam ended more than forty years ago - give it up for heavens sakes. Get on with your life and stop wallowing in other peoples pasts.
It is 2018, not 1968.
I'm just now reading for relief ....
https://archiveofourown.org/works/15876018
From another fanfic universe , funeral for a statesman.
McCain was also forgiving - a virtue that no Republican has.
That's not very well known, if at all true. You should cite an example.
Jon Ericson,
You are welcome.
"Obama averaged 1.8% GDP growth and 1.25 trillion dollars a year added to the debt."
Yep and Obama and his media lapdogs tried to get us all to believe that ridiculously low GDP growth was the "new normal".
"Deep State" = a rejection of Teddy Roosevelt's professional system of public servants, to revert back to one of lackeys and toadies who would be more loyal to a person or party machine (like Trump's) than to their jobs and constitutional responsibilities.
Unfortunately, Hillary partisans like Peter Strzok have become the face of "public servants" -- at least in D.C. It didn't help that your ilk (I'm thinking of Inga) defended Strzok as a hero. Strzok is now stricken, which can only help things.
the Nazgul is illustrating this pattern
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/09/the_mccain_funeral__a_failed_brand_relaunch.html
That's not very well known, if at all true. You should cite an example.
You're the best example... the grudges you hold against me for no reason. Blog de-linking, etc. You say nice things when you feel you're in safe space to do so but then carry some of the most venomous personal animus indefinitely. But then, you do that with every silly little political story of the day, also. You just get really upset and bent out of shape about the oddest things.
Peter Strzok and James Comey strike me as the real "small men" that Ritmo rails against. Both men held considerable power compared to the average American. Yet each "man" cowered in fear of an impending Hillary victory, perhaps thinking that they would lose their job under a President Hillary. Each man in his own way perverted American justice and the rule of law.
Where was your big man John McCain during all this? Helping to smear Trump with the phony Pee Pee tape.
9/2/18, 5:38 PM
You really have a problem magnifying single stories or single people into causes celebre for right-wing grievance-mongering. We're talking about entire systems of political professionalism, not this one person or that. Scott Pruitt notoriously decimated his department of scientists so that he could massively increase its ranks with political appointees. You know. Because the Environmental Protection Agency should be less science-based and more politics-based.
Trump's doing the same thing with the courts, for what it's worth. Stacking the bench with as many ideologues who hate what the people want as his party's legislators do.
PPPT,
Dude, we’re just not that into you.
You're the best example... the grudges you hold against me for no reason.
That didn't answer my very simple request.
Yet each "man" cowered in fear of an impending Hillary victory, perhaps thinking that they would lose their job under a President Hillary.
I admit it's hard to be judgmental against these men -- what would you or I do in their shoes? Yet one of them had the audacity to write a book about it trying to vindicate himself.
Two-legged partisans good.
Four-legged partisans bad.
Peter Strzok and James Comey strike me as the real "small men" that Ritmo rails against. Both men held considerable power compared to the average American. Yet each "man" cowered in fear of an impending Hillary victory, perhaps thinking that they would lose their job under a President Hillary. Each man in his own way perverted American justice and the rule of law.
Where was your big man John McCain during all this? Helping to smear Trump with the phony Pee Pee tape.
Hilarious. Talk about a legal ignoramus completely out of his depth on any of the issues that an esteemed public servant and decent prosecutor like Comey was weighing through while he whines and whines and whines about irrelevant political BS.
Again, for the 72nd time. How rotted out does someone's brain have to be to believe that anything Trump does is justified because the Hillary Squirrel is lurking around 2016's shoulder? I hope you get indicted for a crime that you squeal about being absolved for because.... I guess some guy in 1632 got away with a similar crime. It shows how you have no sense of personal responsibility or decency and view everything in political terms. You wingers are like citizen-politicians. Pretend politicians posing as just your average ordinary citizen.
That didn't answer my very simple request.
Yes it did. You asked for an example of a Republican who lacks the capacity for forgiveness and I cited you.
Did you need it translated into a language of chemical reactions or something?
That didn't answer my very simple request.
I want an example of the "forgiving McCain."
Again, for the 72nd time. How rotted out does someone's brain have to be to believe that anything Trump does is justified because the Hillary Squirrel is lurking around 2016's shoulder? I hope you get indicted for a crime that you squeal about being absolved for because.... I guess some guy in 1632 got away with a similar crime. It shows how you have no sense of personal responsibility or decency and view everything in political terms. You wingers are like citizen-politicians. Pretend politicians posing as just your average ordinary citizen.
gibberish
Чикелит
1000 monkeys typing and you have the nerve to call it gibberish?
He's a Daydrink believer.
@Birkel: Forgive me. If not gibberish, then gobbledygook.
How rotted out does someone's brain have to be to believe that anything Trump does is justified because the Hillary Squirrel is lurking around 2016's shoulder?
Hillary had everything to do with why Trump ran and why he was elected.
Hillary had everything to do with why Trump ran and why he was elected.
And apparently everything to do with why you feel he shouldn't be held accountable for anything.
You'd make a good minor functionary in the government of an Eastern bloc dictatorship.
if one looks back at the 2008 election as a charade, it all makes sense.
Wondering if McCain's funeral will start a tradition for future ... Senator and candidate for president ... who is On deck for the next.
Gore, Kerry, or Hillary
I see that failed molecular biology student Ritmo has been busy while we had a nice drive to Bisbee and had lunch at the Copper Queen Hotel.
Don't let me interrupt your keyboard masturbation Ritmo.
So shameful Trump is proceeding with virtually no scrutiny, right?
Sad!
Scott Adams says: the people that hate Trump the most, and are most desirous of limiting and minimizing his presence and impact, end up speaking of him most often and obsessing about what he does and is imagined to do. Irony.
-sw
I mentioned him earlier in the week:
https://spectator.org/the-senates-unremembered-ex-pow/
R Taylor said...if one looks back at the 2008 election as a charade, it all makes sense.
Indeed. Take a look at this old clip of Ron Weisflog confronting McCain just days/weeks before the election. link Note McCain's tepid response. McCain had contempt for people like Weisflog. Later on, McCain didn't mind the IRS going after the Tea Party.
'Wondering if McCain's funeral will start a tradition for future ... Senator and candidate for president ... who is On deck for the next. "
Are we absolutely certain McCain's funeral is finally over?
"Let the dead bury their own dead" — Jesus Christ.
Yeah sure - easy for You to say....
I watched a lot of the coverage, so allow me to share what I found most notable and worthwhile, so you don't have to:
1. The public viewing in the Arizona State Capitol, and somewhat the US Capitol -- completely ordinary people who walked by, stopped briefly and saluted or nodded their heads and crossed themselves. I didn't think anyone would show up in AZ frankly, but many people did. And some people came with young children to participate in an historical event. They all wanted to show respect and there was nothing political about it, no drama over who didn't get invited, their status etc.
2. All the hoisting of McCain's casket by military members, very hefty thoroughly professional military men, particularly the scene of McCain being brought up the steps of the US Capitol in DC, especially as the rain started coming down, and McCain's family standing at the top of the steps in the entrance. I gained a lot respect for Cindy McCain for how she handled herself throughout this process, stoic, modest and gracious to all, and not constantly and uncontrollably sobbing as did daughter Meghan. I thought about the stories of John McCain having being held in captivity in some small coffin like cell and thought to myself, he'll be glad when all this hoisting is over, RIP.
3. The tributes by Joe Liberman and Henry Kissinger were definitely worth hearing, memorable and shared information not generally known. Available on Youtube.
@R.J. Chatt -- Thanks for your reporting.
At my wife's grandfather's very small family funeral, 70 years after the war he fought in ended, a pair of Navy officers were there to present a flag. That meant a lot.
Great comment, R. Chatt! Completely devoid of politics, as it should be.
I gained a lot respect for Cindy McCain for how she handled herself throughout this process, stoic, modest and gracious to all, and not constantly and uncontrollably sobbing as did daughter Meghan.
She sounds like her mother-in-law.
R.J.
While I was in the hotel working, I viewed the C-span coverage of Mccain's coffin lying in state on Friday. I'd estimate 99% of the people - walking by - were White and most looked like either tourists (men in shorts, etc.) or Gov't workers (business suits, professional attire, etc.).
Given DC and suburbs are probably 35% black and have large numbers of Hispanics, asians, etc., the small amount of "people of color" - was quite striking.
The fact is that no under 50 gives a damn about McCain "The war hero" - that's a boomer thing. And its the liberal elite - not the average leftist - who loves McCain's Mavericky nature.
McCain is going to be forgotten hard and fast - unless the Dumbo's in Arizona elect another McCain.
Buwaya...maybe it’s trival but a film was made that honored the heroes who resisted the Japanese after the fall of the Philippines. It was called BACK TO BATTAN. As far as I know there are no memorials anywhere.
Baton passing.
Blogger rcocean said...
'Mccain wasn't REALLY a war hero. He got shot down, and was tortured. That's pretty passive for being a "War Hero"'
It's not at all clear that McCain was ever tortured, at least by the North VietNamese. He got fucked up pretty bad getting out of his plane, but the NVs put him in a hospital. In the famous photo of him shaking hands with Nixon, he's on crutches because of surgeries he had after his release. I rather doubt that any other VietNam POWs were at his funeral, or wanted to be.
To those who think McCain was not effective in the Senate, what about McCain Feingold? That forcible rape of the First Amendment has turned modern politics into a money-grubbing cesspool of corruption that favors rich incumbents like McCain, while giving the MSM license to conduct an ongoing Contribution in Kind to the Democrats. Arguably the worst piece of legislation ever passed.
Picking up this comment section just several minutes ago, I found that I couldn't read it all to the end. Almost every fifth comment was sorta like when you choke a little and some vomit comes up in the back of your throat. Over and over again.
PPPT, put down the glass dick for Chrissakes.
what a piece of work.
I’m not commenting on this blog post, except now I have, huh.
You too, Bride of Pedro.
Doesn't Maverick mean unbranded cattle? What's with R after McCain?
He was tortured, using what was called the strappando in renaissance era. The cuba project did it Denton and day, coffee and thorsness.
James Garner IS Maverick
There are Philippine war memorials, a large number.
The big one is on Mount Samat, Bataan.
But these are Philippine memorials.
There is an American cemetery in Manila, where some of the people I mention have their names engraved (bodies not recovered), a memorial at the POW camp at Cabanatuan, and the preserved fortress-island of Corregidor, that has the Pacific War memorial, but it is not dedicated specifically to Americans, but to the garrison.
But there is nothing for the American guerillas.
And anything of the sort should be in their own country.
There are remarkably few WWII memorials in US cities, vs those of the Civil War, or even the Spanish-American war.
There should be something massive in San Francisco, being as it was the principal city and port supporting US forces in the Pacific war. Almost all those departing for or returning from that war sailed through the Golden Gate.
As for movies, the only decent one on the guerillas is "An American Guerilla in the Philippines", Fritz Lang 1950. Its extremely sanitized, but otherwise remarkably true to the subject as it was shot on location. If you want to know what the whole thing looked like, there it is. Not a great film otherwise. The one that gets the spirit of the time and place best is of course "They Were Expendable", John Ford.
The others are wartime propaganda without redeeming features, or various Philippine productions/coproductions of poor quality.
So volckmann and ferTik, were initially cut out of post war policy inn the Philippines, this neccesatated Lansdale getting ultimately involved, he had some success with magsasay but with the latters passing the vacuum was left for another insurgency to fill.
Yeah, my dad never talked about his vacation in the Gilberts either.
Lansdale had initial success in transferring some accomplishment in South Vietnam, but demography and geography interfered.
The bigger hole in all this is the enormous lie that is the academic version of your history, that you teach your children.
I see that failed molecular biology student Ritmo has been busy while we had a nice drive to Bisbee and had lunch at the Copper Queen Hotel.
Hilariously, Little Republican Person Michael K doesn't seem to notice that no one gives a rat's ass what he does.
And that he has to make up such mean, insulting lies about other people to feel better about his Little Self.
Did you learn what a "gene" is, yet, Michael K? Did the racist physicist's pseudo bio blog teach you that part yet, what with all the blathering about the superiority of this race and that and such?
Picking up this comment section just several minutes ago, I found that I couldn't read it all to the end. Almost every fifth comment was sorta like when you choke a little and some vomit comes up in the back of your throat. Over and over again.
I'm glad to know that reminding you of what your despicable party and political movement is up to has that effect on you, Marcus!
I worked with a death march survivor. Shop 51, Hunters Point Naval Shipyard.
He never talked about it, other old timers did.
I knew a doctor who was a Death March survivor. I can't recall if he was a doctor at the time. He was later an ophthalmologist and may have been chair of the department at USC.
We didn't talk about it. I didn't know him well enough anyway,
McCain, like everything else in his life, was famous because of his father and grandfather.
Cindy McCain, knowing what I have read about their relationship, probably had good reason to be stoic.
Oh, the failed student is back.
Could a Lee kwan yoo have arisen out of the phillipines,after magsasay, an authoritarian without a hint of public corruption?
I ask since halberstan missing the plot of Vietnam almost entirely, who would you recommend as a decent historian of the post war Philippines, has that yet to appear, sterling seagrave is clearly out.
Oh, the failed student is back.
Oh, the failed human is back.
Missing the wet nurse's breast milk, Michael K?
You really don't make anywhere near as effective elitist as you wish you did now, don't you?
Thats,where Clinton lecturing colonel Holmes on the ethics of war, made me gag.
Lifted:
"The contrast between the outpouring of love for McCain in his last days and the astonishing vitriol directed at him in 2000 and 2008 demonstrates once again how disingenuous, low, and cheap American politics were well before Trump came on the scene."
-David French
All things Clinton are all things gag reflex.
I realized that McCain was the last of the FAKE American Patriots.
Y'know the men, who fought some Wilsonion, globalist, useless war, and then pretended to a great American "Patriot".
To Bush and McCain, America isn't about y'know Americans. Its about "us" (aka average Americans" inviting the world, and invading the world. Spending lots of lives and money in Babookastan or Thingawhater and after killing thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of foreigners, inviting the surviving foreigners to live in America because "we owe them".
No one is ever going to do what McCain did aka run for President under the implied slogan "Hey, I killed Gooks for Jesus - make me President". We're done with that nonsense.
True, particularly since William Fulbright his mentor, wrote the authorization behind the direct intervention.
Didn't vote for McCain in '08 and didn't watch any TV coverage of the services for him. But recommend a Slate piece extracting from an old Michael Lewis profile from when Mo Udall (who got my vote in '76) was alive (barely). McCain had qualities to appreciate.
Therein lies the rub, they didn't settle the matter in our front yard, why did we think we could solve a,problem 3,000 miles away.
"Back to Bataan" with John Wayne is the only movie to depict the Death March, if only briefly. It's an okay movie. "An American Guerilla" is disappointing -- very dull, with little action. "Manila Calling" is better, and the book it is based on is pretty good too.
I wish Ed Dyess had not been killed in a plane crash so he could write the full story of his escape, no doubt facilitated by Fil-American guerillas shadowing the Death March. The book he wrote during the war but before he died, "The Dyess Story" is understandably silent on the details on the details of his escape.
One of the best war memoirs, and escape stories, ever written is "South From Corregidor." It's about a group who got off the island the day it surrendered, eventually making it to Australia. An epic masterpiece.
I interviewed c. 25-30 survivors of the Bataan Death March, all members of the Provisional Tank Group that attached to North Luzon Force and later the force defending Bataan. Got to be good friends with several. I still have their interviews and will eventually write a book based on them.
Well, I learned two things here, today:
1) Pres. Pee Pee does indeed have a severe incontinence problem.
2) I don't buy the idea McCain wanted to "exclude" Pres. Trump - I think he fully intended and arranged his own funeral as a big middle-finger to Trump....it simply backfired on him cause his 'friends and family' are just as inept and nasty as he was.
There was no Lee Kwan Yew and could not be, because the society would not have created one, especially at the time. It was based after all on a feudal peasantry. And not enough Chinese.
I'm thankful that the trolls seem to occupy and dominate just one thread on Althouse each day. I know to stay away. Perhaps Ann could designate that thread with an asterisk at the end of the title or something, so the trolls and the readers both know in advance.
Hollywood never wanted to film the "Bataan Death March" because it would stir up hatred for the "Japs" who were our friends after WW2. Even during the WW2, the truth was kept under wraps until 1944, because FDR was afraid letting it out would lead to a "Japan First" sentiment.
You'll also noticed very few WW2 movies in the 50s and early 60s where the Germans were shown as out and out villains. Usually, they shown as noble adversaries, "Good Germans" who were under the thumb of a few nasty Nazis, who were the cause of the whole horrible war.
This was because we needed the Krauts as our allies in any potential WW3. Once it became clear that WW3 wasn't going to happen -around the mid 60s, Hollywood started making the Germans into 100% Nazis and cartoon villains.
"Yeah, I don't buy..."
the mating call of the internet troll
"I'm not persuaded.."
Is another troll bait comment.
US politicians used to make great use of their military celebrity.
Foreign wars did very well for this.
Zachary Taylor, perhaps, was the first to be elevated on account of his celebrity won in foreign wars. But certainly not the first.
Er, not the last.
Roughcoat, your interviews sound very interesting.
Eager to see the result.
Americans knew about the Bataan Death March almost as soon it happened. My coauthor of the book I wrote about the 2nd Marine Division in World War served on Samoa immediately after Pearl Harbor and then fought on Guadalcanal from November through to the end of the campaign. On Samoa the Marines had a plan to withdraw into the mountains and fight to the death if needs must -- there would be no surrender because of what had happened on Wake Island and, most of all, on Bataan. On Guadalcanal when the campaign was going badly for U.S. forces all vowed that there would be no surrender, no matter what -- "no more Bataan Death Marches" was their vow.
buwaya:
I conducted the last of those interviews some 10-15 years ago. I meant to write the book right away but my life got complicated and difficult and I put the project aside. Iris Chang got interested in writing their story and I was consulting and working with her on the project (including sharing my tapes with her) but she tragically committed suicide before she had gotten very far with it. But I still have the tapes and will at some point return to them. All those good men that I interviewed are gone, God rest them, but their stories will live on if I have anything to say about it.
If you ever get your book done, roughcoat, let me know. I've been looking at video of M4 tanks in WWII.
Michael K:
Thanks for your interest! I will indeed let you know. Don't hold breath, but having said that ... I will certainly write it at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later.
I am absolutely enthralled by the subject of tanks, tank warfare, and etc. Lots of videos of all kinds including the M4 on YouTube. My favorite is the M3, no particular reason, it just fascinates me.
Here's one of the videos about the M4 tank.
People say "Deathtraps" has been "debunked" but this guy, who seems to know what he is saying, likes the book. All he says is that it is a memoir, not history and I agree.
Roughcoat, it is a shame that the the private museum of tanks that was in the Bay Area, was dismantled and shipped away.
I guess the widow did not like her husband spending his money on that.
I was signed up for a tour but it closed to all just before.
I was also signed up with Military History Tours for a trip to Guadalcanal with Mitchell Paige as an honorary guide but the Solomons had a revolution and the tour was cancelled. What a chance that would have been !
I have a friend who does military tours in Europe. We went to Waterloo with him two years ago.
My father trained on M4 "Sherman" tanks at Fort Knox in 1951 before being shipped out to Germany to man some of the newer Patton class of tanks, then being deployed in Korea. In a letter home to his parents, he described some the amazing specs.
Michael K:
Robert A. Forczyk, author of two books on tank warfare on the Eastern Front, as well as a book on second phase of the 1940 campaign in France ("Case Red"), has been the most prolific and vehement critic of "Death Traps." He has posted lengthy comments on this subject in the reviews section of the Amazon site for Death Traps. He's knowledgeable on the subject but very abrasive and does not accept gracefully criticism of his own views. He makes some good points in his criticism of Death Traps but he's also wrong in some respects and gets very angry when people disagree with him and point out how he is wrong. I had an unpleasant exchange with him when I dared to mildly criticize his book on the 1940 campaign, which I posted under the pseudonym "Froideterre." I don't like him. Death Traps has valid things to say about the flaws and weaknesses of the M4 and is for that reasons a valuable contribution to the historiography of armored warfare.
Michael K:
Thanks also for the YouTube. I watch the vid presently. Would like to keep talking on this subject but I've got to go to bed now. Later ...
I have no idea why "deathtraps" strikes a cord with some people. Its not only been debunked, its a mediocre badly written book.
For some reason, people bring it up. Again and Again.
I have NO IDEA why.
Just to repeat myself.
The man who wrote it was NOT a combat Tankman. He was NOT a military historian. He was NOT a regular army officer.
He published it, 55-60 years after the war. But it strikes a cord. I don't know why.
The M4 was superior to any German tank when it went into combat in Oct 42. The Germans didn't have significant numbers of Panthers until Jan 44. Even in Normandy only 1/3 of German AFV's were Panthers/Tigers.
We should have had the Pershing in Sept 44 instead of march 45. But the person who made that decision was NOT Patton.
Final (for tonight) quick notes:
Thanks for the link to the military tours company. I just may contact it soon.
I too almost went to Guadalancal with the USMC last year, but couldn't pull it off, alas.
Best book ever written about tank warfare is Robert Crip's memoir, "Brazen Chariots". Crisp was a tank commander in Operation Crusader and his book chronicles his experiences in that campaign. His "prequel" to "Brazen Chariots", "The Gods Were Neutral," about his experiences as a tank commander in the ill-fated Greek campaign of 1941, is also pretty good.
G'night.
It is quite instructive that Hillary Clinton and Dick Cheney sat together at the funeral. After all they serve the same masters. The uni-party is united in their hatred and disdain for the American people. The people McCain thought of as wackos and yahoos who are to be lied to at every election and then safely ignored.
You know who you didn't see there?
Rand Paul. Bernie Sanders. Donald Trump. All of whom might've divergent views but are not part of the Golbalist Deep State conspiracy.
This is the last hurrah for the stablishment. Their time is done. They feel it and that is why they and their apologists like Ritmo are getting increasingly frantic.
I have Crisp's books.
My personal favorite, as a read on tanks, is "Warriors for the Working Day", Peter Elstob.
Though its a novel, its very autobiographical.
Not that I know much about tanks. We trained as infantry.
"It is quite instructive that Hillary Clinton and Dick Cheney sat together at the funeral."
I was surprised to see Dick Cheney there. He usually has his annual heart attack in September.
I am just glad that McCain himself wasn't a pall bearer. He would have crashed he coffin.
I hope he packed enough sunblock. It is going to be very warm where he is going.
"Adams starts the thing by singing "Bup bup bum. Bup bup bup bup bum" while doing the stuff he should've done before he pressed "start recording", and also before he lost my interest."
Periscopes are done live. You're not familiar with the format. The recording comes up after the thing has ended. Scott pads the first minute or two to let the room fill up, and usually starts discussing his topics for the day when he hits 1,000 viewers. He usually has about 8,000 viewers during the live version, and many more watch on replay. During the 2016 election he sometimes had up to 27,000 live viewers.
Blogger rcocean said...
I realized that McCain was the last of the FAKE American Patriots.
Y'know the men, who fought some Wilsonion, globalist, useless war
The mask slips
Blogger rcocean said...
I have no idea why "deathtraps" strikes a cord with some people.
It certainly upsets some. Maybe because it is written about failure. As I wrote, the guy who does a series of videos on tanks, likes it and said it is a memoir, not history.
There are lots of memoirs. Maybe some body doesn't like EB Sledge's memoir. It was written years after the war, too.
Well, if the McCain funeral was a great Resistance Meeting, then I think the Never-Trumpers should hold more funerals for their members. I have a list I would love to see memorialized over the course of the coming months.....
I like the concept, Yancey.
One of my dad's military history magazines compared European WWII tanks in quality and quantity. We produced gazillions of identical tanks efficiently while the Germans spent many more manhours/tank on high quality, specialized tanks in small fractions of numbers. I knew about the first part but not the second.
I found Adam’s analysis - 8:08 to 12:50 to be surface and boring. It was more respectful to McCain’s wishes, since he planned his own funeral.
For somebody that was the third most disliked Senator, amazing the praise he got.
My opinion of McCain is even worse, after this week. Definitely had a bad case of TDS.
I’m surprised Trump was so well behaved this week towards McCain. Reminds me of Sherlock Holmes commenting, it was more important in why the dog did not bark...
OH yeah. I'm just all about everything that Hillary Clinton and Dick Cheney are for. How did anyone guess?
Hilarious.
buwaya said...
There are remarkably few WWII memorials in US cities, vs those of the Civil War, or even the Spanish-American war.
Ummm--- You're not looking. Downtown NY at Battery Park a large WWII Memorial. One I used to wander through when much younger. Much younger. They even have a new addition that wasn't there the last time I visited, the Merchant Mariner's Memorial Good pics here: http://www.scoutingny.com/lost-at-sea/
Rochester NY has a World War II Memorial in Genesee Valley Park and a Battle of the Bulge Memorial at Charlotte Park.And a WWII Memorial Monument at Rochester War Memorial Broad St and Exchange Blvd. Rochester, NY 14625.
There are also several in Syracuse NY. And a small WWII memorial in my small town midway between the two. We also have a small Civil War and WWI Memorial. But not War of 1812. Though there are nearby ones. Really nice one I visited up in Canada celebrating a victory over U.S. forces.
Every city in the United States likely has a WWII Memorial. I suspect there aren't any Civil War monuments in Alaska or Hawaii. And not many in the Dakotas. Dakota Territory raised 2 companies during the Civil War that remained in the territory to defend against Indian raids. Or Montana, not even organized as a territory at the war's start. You will see them all over the South as that's where the war was fought. And in every town that raised a militia unit, whether for the North or South.
@roughcoat
The mention of Ed Dyess brought back to mind losing two friends and squadron mates when their KC-135 crashed on takeoff out of Dyess AFB in 1989, along with 17 other passengers and crew.
And in looking some of those up I discovered Soldiers Walk Memorial Park located in Arcadia, Wisconsin. https://www.soldierswalkmemorialpark.com/ Now on my list of places I need to stop by at. Perhaps our esteemed hostess could visit and review it for us since she's fairly close.
#WorseThanWellstone
Blogger Ralph L said...
I can understand not wanting the sitting President at a funeral because of the security mess, but the Palin dis-invite really made him look petty, esp. with BO and W invited to speak. Someone should have overruled him, what could he do?
9/2/18, 12:43 PM
Having forced myself to wstch, with onvi ted pedo Jecfrey Jones polluting scenes, for a reason idoltrous and more your comment touchex me.
The season finale of season one, there were o nly three, had a mercy killing by the bad guy of a potential good guy. It impacted me. The doctor, not Ian or Timothy, has been the sewson one stand-out.
After the wrters, wonder boys like me.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/celebrity/hollywood/jeffrey-jones
I've paid this man by watching "Deadwood"
ehttp://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/celebrity/hollywood/jeffrey-jones,
Farris Bueller is pre-conviction and don't matter.
What hath Olyphant wrought?
Can I, Old Guild, continue my support of pedophilia's natural conclusions by supportinv Jeffrey Jonez art?
Eventuwting non-complianc is a throat-slit gambit.
Mike Vick just raised dogs to kill and die, like all you should do.
White NFL owners treat humans worse than Mike Vick treated his dogs.
Keep paying.
Well, if the McCain funeral was a great Resistance Meeting, then I think the Never-Trumpers should hold more funerals for their members.
McCain was a man I admired and voted for. But you would think that a President had died with the amount of ceremony. The motive is easy to figure out: McCain is useful to the NeverTrumpers as a symbol of resistance to Trump.
We probably have another week or two of virtue-signaling and political posturing. It will make them feel better by taking their minds off the pitiful results so far of their clumsy attempts to topple Trump.
"As the fall elections approach, it's clear that the Left side of the aisle is getting nuttier by the day. The public spectacles of the two funerals, Aretha Franklin's and John McCain's, brought forth the usual characters from our long-running American sitcom-cum-political soap opera, including a lecherous Bill Clinton, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Louis Farrakhan in Detroit; and the leading lights of the Permanent Bipartisan Fusion Party, including George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Joe Lieberman, in Washington, almost all of whom seemed not to have the dearly departed on their minds, but their bete noire in the White House, Donald Trump. Old feuds, such as that between Bush and McCain, were forgotten as, like Marc Antony over the bleeding corpse of Julius Caesar, they delivered their orations designed not so much to praise McCain but to bury Trump."
Another thread where Ritmo shows exactly why most people are repulsed by leftists.
For all of his effusive praise of McCain and his heroism.... notice his complete silence on George Bush Sr., who was shot down and floated around in the sea during WWII. Bob Dole? Ritmo is silent.
Did Ritmo apologize for his parties spitting on Vietnam veterans, such as McCain? I'm sure he's still happy to this day and gets himself off watching the Fall of Saigon, and the torture/misery/executions that followed as leftists were let loose. That of course was Democrats reneging on their word, yet again. Ritmo praises McCain's "Honor." Well might he do so, since no one can name any honorable leftist politician. McCain was the closest there was. Ritmo whines that Republicans don't seem eagar to honor McCain... well, too many know the real McCain of his later years, when he became a Democrat....i.e. traitorous, backstabbing, dishonorable, mean, petty, a liar, and so forth. In other words, a real Democrat. Of course they honor that!
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