September 8, 2018

"Frisch’s former students describe him as eccentric, nerdy, prone to lengthy classroom digressions about his stamp collection, dinosaurs or childhood snow days spent sledding."

"Any teacher who spends three decades in the classroom, speaking extemporaneously for hours on end to a roomful of teenagers, is going to have awkward moments. [Ben] Frisch might have had more of them, and they may have been a bit more awkward. But that was how he connected, and it was perhaps a way of connecting that is no longer possible. 'Everybody knew this guy was off — weird behavior, quirky,' said one parent who, fearing retribution against her child, insisted on anonymity. 'Maybe in the ’70s that would have been O.K., but not when you’re paying $45,000 a year in tuition.'"

From "A Teacher Made a Hitler Joke in the Classroom/It Tore the School Apart" (NYT). The joke was saying "Heil Hitler" after he noticed that his arm — in teaching a pre-calculus lesson involving angles — was in the Hitler salute position. "Frisch is a practicing Quaker, but his father was Jewish, and two of his great-grandmothers were killed at Auschwitz."
[Bo] Lauder [the principal at Friends Seminary] did not consider the “Heil Hitler” episode a close call. “Personally, I was appalled,” he told me. “I couldn’t imagine, even as a joke — and I grew up watching ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ — that in a class that had nothing to do with history or World War II or Nazism or teaching German language that an incident like that could happen.” I asked Lauder why he felt he needed to go so far as to fire Frisch. “One of our pledges is to make all of our students feel safe,” he replied. “And that is something that I take very, very seriously.”

That no one has accused Frisch of being an anti-Semite was beside the point: His invocation of the Nazi salute in a classroom full of high school students, regardless of his intentions, was enough to end his career. On today’s campus, words and symbols can be seen as a form of violence; to many people, engaging in a public debate about the nuances of their power is to tolerate their use. “I asked one of our lawyers, ‘How can I do this in a more Quakerly way?’ ” Lauder told me. “And he just looked at me and stated the obvious: There is no way to make a firing a Quakerly event.”
IN THE COMMENTS: Freeman Hunt said:
Isn't it making fun of the salute rather than promoting it?
Yes, but it's the Era of That's Not Funny, because how is a student ever able to be sure that the device of making a joke is not really a way to say the otherwise forbidden thing? I mean, what if a lot of students started greeting one another in the hallways of Friends Seminary with a big old Nazi salute and a hearty "Heil Hitler!" Would it be hilarious? Would it roundly make a mockery of Nazis?

You know what it would be?, I suddenly realize. It would be a real "I am Spartacus" moment! If all the students who think Mr. Frisch is getting an unfair punishment would greet each other henceforth with a Nazi salute and a hearty "Heil Hitler!" — what a protest that would be!

Here's the Wikipedia article on the Nazi salute, which I looked up because I wanted to see the extent of efforts to drain it of power by turning it into a big joke. I thought there'd be a substantial list under the "In popular culture" heading, but there are only 3 things, one of which is "Hogan's Heroes," the 1965-1971 TV show that the Friend's Seminary principal says he "grew up" watching:
• In a running gag in Hogan's Heroes, Colonel Klink often forgets to give the Hitler salute at the end of a phone call; instead, he usually asks, "What's that?" and then says, "Yes, of course, Heil Hitler." In the German language version of the show, called Ein Käfig Voller Helden (A Cage Full of Heroes), "Col. Klink and Sgt. Schultz have rural Gomer Pyle-type accents," and "stiff-armed salutes are accompanied by such witticisms as "this is how high the cornflowers grow." The "Heil Hitler" greeting was the variant most often used and associated with the series; "Sieg Heil" was rarely heard.

• On August 11, 2017, Jeffrey Lord was fired by CNN for tweeting "Sieg Heil!" 
He was joking.
• A similar gesture was used by the fictional Nazi-affiliated organization Hydra, with both arms outstretched and the phrase "Hail Hydra" uttered by members of the organization.
There must be more pop culture examples. I can think of "Dr. Strangelove":



AND: Of course, there's "The Producers" ("Springtime for Hitler" is loaded with Nazi salutes):



ALSO: I know that's the more recent, more musical version of "The Producers." I thought the clip was excellent and used it, even though I'd gone searching for in the original 1967 movie, which you can see here. In that movie, Dick Shawn played the ridiculous Lorenzo St. DuBois (L.S.D.) who was intentionally miscast as Hitler in the so-bad-it's-good show "Springtime for Hitler." I love Dick Shawn in that movie, and went to read his IMDB page, and was fascinated by this:
Shawn won a huge fan base... touring in one-man stage shows which contained a weird mix of songs, sketches, satire, philosophy and even pantomime. A bright, innovative wit, one of his best touring shows was called "The Second Greatest Entertainer in the World." During the show's intermission, Shawn would lie visibly on the stage floor absolutely still during the entire time. By freakish coincidence, Shawn was performing at the University of California at San Diego in 1987 when he suddenly fell forward on the stage during one of his spiels about the Holocaust. The audience, of course, laughed, thinking it was just a part of his odd shtick. In actuality, the 63-year-old married actor with four children had suffered a fatal heart attack.
What an ending!

AND: Here's Dick Shawn on Johnny Carson in 1986, doing a comedy routine about how you can't do jokes anymore, because everything is dangerous:



It was already the Era of That's Not Funny as far as he was concerned.

323 comments:

1 – 200 of 323   Newer›   Newest»
Michael K said...

I'm reading "The Coddling of the American Mind" which seems to be related to Alan Bloom's 1987 book, which I also read.

Kids are not safe, even in private schools. Safe from insanity, of course,

Oso Negro said...

That’s utterly perverse. A kid who is terrified by a Heil Hitler joke won’t survive in the real world for long. Sometimes whiners need to get the fuck over themselves.

Michael K said...

A student mentioned it to Friends’ director of diversity and inclusion, Jason Craige Harris, who in turn told the dean of co-curricular programs, Leitzel Schoen.

Much is explained.

Mr. Majestyk said...

The specialness is strong in those snowflakes.

Unknown said...

it would be interesting to see a poll of likely Trump voters in that area before/after this event. I'd be shocked if this doesn't give him 5 points in that region.

Freeman Hunt said...

Isn't it making fun of the salute rather than promoting it?

Virgil Hilts said...

Stuff like this makes me despair. I could understand if it were just stupid Red-Guard-wannabe snowflakes trying to get attention & exercise power to destroy someone, but for the parents to do this & the administration to cave is just sick and disgusting. I feel like I have nothing in common with these people. They're mindless, shallow and heartless. What loathsome and indefensible behavior. Also reminds me of Human Stain by Philip Roth - a fantastic book.

tcrosse said...

Mel Brooks, call your office.

Ann Althouse said...

"I'm reading "The Coddling of the American Mind" which seems to be related to Alan Bloom's 1987 book, which I also read."

Thanks for reminding me about that book. I just finished a long audiobook yesterday and was wondering what to do next.

David Begley said...

Just a backdoor way to get rid of an old guy who probably had tenure.

And atty-client privilege now waived.

CWJ said...

The parent fearing retribution against her child seems to be as easily "triggered" as anyone. Or more likely, just wanted to engage in some character assassination anonymously.

Michael K said...

What loathsome and indefensible behavior.

Parents were probably at John McCain's funeral. At least one of them.

Michael K said...

I just finished a long audiobook yesterday and was wondering what to do next.

I have it as an audio.

jaydub said...

Should have made a joke about Pol Pot. Commie crazies are universally accepted in elite schools everywhere.

Fernandinande said...

Those kids should follow the advice of their betters at the NYT and visit Thailand and create clay sculptures modeled on Hitler.

“Hitler is my inspiration”
Thailand has a Nazi problem.

Henry said...

There's one little fact in the article that surprised me almost more than anything else.

One sign protesting Bo Lauder's actions called him "Bo Chi Minh"

Good for the student to know history. Funny what you can and can't get away with.

bgates said...

Seems like Americans were less scared of Nazis during the war.

CWJ said...

The bigger story here is the ease with which a private school teacher may be fired compared to the near impossibilty of firing a public school teacher.

Henry said...

Aargh. Read to the end and the writer goes innumerate:

High schools have become genuinely unsafe: The “Heil Hitler” salute happened on the very same day as the Parkland massacre.

Where's a math teacher when you need one?

SGT Ted said...

The Nazi hysteria is so precious. Meanwhile, Communists get a pass.

rhhardin said...

Mitchell and Webb, the new Fuhrer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYz1ADttI1g

Fernandinande said...

Seems like Americans were less scared of Nazis during the war.

Apparently imaginary Nazis are scarier than real ones.

"It’s bad enough that students would come up with such a back drop for their graduation pics but that no professor (at the MOST FAMOUS UNI of the country) realized that ‘mistake’ is actually a joke."

Sebastian said...

"“One of our pledges is to make all of our students feel safe,” he replied. “And that is something that I take very, very seriously.”"

How can the rest of us feel safe in institutions run by a**h** likes that? How we can we take our anointed leaders seriously when they spout such nonsense?

"On today’s campus, words and symbols can be seen as a form of violence; to many people, engaging in a public debate about the nuances of their power is to tolerate their use."

Of course, only some symbols are "forms of violence." Commies, can be praised, no one frowns at a Che shirt, deriding Islamists gets you in trouble for making Muslims uncomfortable, and violent imagery aimed against heteronormative cisgender white supremacists is entirely kosher.

Original Mike said...

Blogger Virgil Hilts said...”Stuff like this makes me despair. I could understand if it were just stupid Red-Guard-wannabe snowflakes trying to get attention & exercise power to destroy someone, but for the parents to do this & the administration to cave is just sick and disgusting. I feel like I have nothing in common with these people.”

This story is appalling. In searching for a response I can’t do any better than what Virgil said. What have we done to ourselves?

rhhardin said...

Hitler actually escaped and is living in South America under the name Hilter.

Hagar said...

Insane, quite insane.
And I say that as a European old enough to have known actual Nazis.

rhhardin said...

If it walks like a Quaker, and quacks like a Quaker, it's a Quaker.

Ralph L said...

If we completely wipe out bad history, it will never be repeated, right?

CWJ said...

"Just a backdoor way to get rid of an old guy who probably had tenure."

Yep. I believe that's the real motivation, and explains the degree to which the principal mischaracterizes the context. His protestations are all of a piece with Captain Renault's shock that gambling takes place at Rick's. But now that he's set the precedent, let's see how willing he is to fire a more popular teacher should they slip in the SJW banana peel.

Ralph L said...

Whatever happened to "teaching moments?"

rhhardin said...

History repeats itself, the first time as comedy, and the second time as force.

CWJ said...

"Where's a math teacher when you need one?"

Fired, in this case.

William said...

Why is it that a Heil Hitler joke is a form of violence and firing someone for a bad joke is not a form of violence?...........I have an almost irrepressible urge to tell bad jokes. I would feel unsafe working in such an environment.

William said...

Good line, rhhardin.

traditionalguy said...

Physics teachers are always weird. They have to entertain the students or none of them will listen. The Administrators are trying to justify their over paid existence with BS.

rhhardin said...

WIM (Women in Mathematics) is a trans-instutional Women's Workplace Issues committee, in case your workplace doesn't have one.

https://quillette.com/2018/09/07/academic-activists-send-a-published-paper-down-the-memory-hole/

via Insty

Crazy Jane said...

Instead of firing him, the school should have required the guy to wear a Che t-shirt to class every day for the rest of the school year. It would have been a nicer way of showing him how to think straight.

Birches said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Cook said...

"The bigger story here is the ease with which a private school teacher may be fired compared to the near impossibilty of firing a public school teacher."

That's because of teacher's unions...god bless 'em!! Unions are a protection against arbitrary and/or unreasonable treatment or termination of employees by management.

Eleanor said...

A parent complained because I used the word "bitch" in class. One of the kids asked me if my new dog was male, and I replied, "No, it's a bitch." I wasn't fired, but I was cautioned about using "words parents don't know the meaning of". My response was, "If parents use a word in front of their child, does that make it OK for me to use in class?" The issue died there.

Birches said...

I listened to a podcast with Haidt and Lukinoff. here I think Haidt has been red pilled, but can't admit it yet. I've got the book on hold.

This stuff is Cultural Revolution levels of insanity. I can't believe these guys think they're on the "right side of history." They are fascists.

rhhardin said...

Teacher's unions aren't unions but lobby groups. Contributions in return for laws.

Phil 314 said...

I thought the OK sign was the bad one now.

Robert Cook said...

"The Nazi hysteria is so precious. Meanwhile, Communists get a pass."

1. They were our allies during the war.

2. They have no recognizable uniforms, salutes, or iconography equal to the Nazis.

3. We didn't and don't care about the millions they killed or who died as a result of their rule. (We didn't care about the Jews, either, at the time: we turned away a ship bearing nearly 1000 Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, and they had to return to Europe. Our post-war concern for them is a result of political circumstances.)

4. The Communists don't exist anymore.

rhhardin said...

The Nazi salute was used by the Navajo Indians to mean good luck.

Virgil Hilts said...

Ann is correct that this is the perfect context to do an I am Spartacus. I have suggested this before whenever some teenager gets hit with suspension for a zero-intelligence reason. But here the other teachers - those with any spine - should also do it.

Fernandinande said...

Aargh. Read to the end

Well, you tricked me into reading it.

"And beyond the confines of the campus, a crude, violent bigotry that had long seemed part of the distant past has suddenly resurfaced, with neo-Nazis literally marching in the streets."

Oh. I did not know that. Unless that hallucinatory rather than innumerate.

Among other things, he planned to say that he was worried about the rise of anti-Semitism and that he was still learning lessons from his mistake. “You think about things like Charlottesville,” he told me. “Now, we don’t make jokes like this.”

So this is one of those "the left eating their own" situations. Tough shit for you, SJW guy.

Michael K said...

Unions are a protection against arbitrary and/or unreasonable treatment or termination of employees by management.

Also against appropriate and reasonable treatment of loafers and crazy people.

gilbar said...

director of diversity and inclusion
so,
director's job is to Make Sure that everyone is thinking the same, and get rid of anyone not?

Robert Cook said...

"The Nazi salute was used by the Navajo Indians to mean good luck."

And swastikas have been a widely-used symbol in many cultures throughout history. The Nazis ruined perfectly good icons and military gestures for everybody else...one more reason to hate them!

rhhardin said...

It's the administrators that need mocking, not the Nazi salute.

The Nazi salute is culturally comedy.

Michael K said...

" The Communists don't exist anymore."

Except in universities where they dominate.

Phil 314 said...


Watching the “Producers” clip I wondered which is more taboo:

-the Nazi salute -OR-

-the gay Hitler singer satire

Doesn’t Mel Brooks know that that no longer gets the cheap laugh because THATS NOT FUNNY!

khematite said...

A list of pop culture occasions incorporating the Nazi salute shouldn't leave out the Disney version of Spike Jones' "The Fuehrer's Face." Where else are you going to see a Nazified Donald Duck giving the Hitler salute?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn20oXFrxxg

Lawrence Person said...

"words and symbols can be seen as a form of violence"

Only if you're a social justice warrior idiot. But I repeat myself...

The Crack Emcee said...

“I asked one of our lawyers, ‘How can I do this in a more Quakerly way?’ ” Lauder told me. “And he just looked at me and stated the obvious: There is no way to make a firing a Quakerly event.”

Trying to convert this outrage through a religious lens is just the irrational icing on the cake. Really.

I felt bad for him before that.

Original Mike said...

”Physics teachers are always weird.”

We kinda are.

The Crack Emcee said...

I'm reading "The Coddling of the American Mind" which seems to be related to Alan Bloom's 1987 book, which I also read.

I never forget who's doing the coddling.

They buy NewAge concoctions and believe their "sign" is real.

gilbar said...

Robert Cook said... Meanwhile, Communists get a pass."
1. They were our allies during the war.

Robert, you are smart enough to know that this is NOT True;
the USSR was our co-belligerent, they were NEVER allied with the US. We both fought the Nazis, we were NOT in alliance with them. Words have meanings, and those meanings MEAN things.

whitney said...

I have an audiobook for you

The Captive Mind by Czeslaw Milosz

You might already have read it. It's considered a classic but I've just discovered it and it's fantastic

Freeman Hunt said...

I think it's in Stalag 17 when they pretend to have a mini Nazi rally as a joke after the prison guard gives them Mein Kampf.

Gahrie said...

I teach US History and Government. I talk about the evils of both the NAZIs and the Communists. Every year I get a student or two who will start announcing he is a NAZI or give the NAZI salute or something because they know it pisses me off. ( They never pick the Communists by the way)

readering said...

If you read the article, he's in a union, filed a grievance and could be reinstated.

Mark said...

“One of our pledges is to make all of our students feel safe,” he replied. “And that is something that I take very, very seriously.”

I'm sure there are some that do not feel safe with Lauder as principal. After all, as principal he is responsible for the operation of the school. When is he going to leave since he takes it very, very seriously?

Gahrie said...

Doesn’t Mel Brooks know that that no longer gets the cheap laugh because THATS NOT FUNNY!

The Broadway version of The Producers, and a remake of the original movie were both hits not all that long ago.

Robert Cook said...

"Also against appropriate and reasonable treatment of loafers and crazy people."

Well, if you're going to have contractual protection for good employees who work hard, it will apply as well to poor workers. As it should be.

I was in a union for 8 years, (the hotel workers union in NYC). The contract did spell out proper ways management could discipline and ultimately fire employees, if necessary, for poor performance or conduct. However, management usually didn't want to be bothered in following the contractual protocols, which required several write-ups and escalating warnings, followed by termination following the contractual stipulations. It was just easier for management to let poor workers ride. As an employee, I'd rather have a bad colleague maintain his or her job due to union protections and management laxness than to fear abrupt termination at any time for no reason. (As in, "It's better for 100 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to be convicted and sent to prison." Of course, innocent men and woman do get convicted and sent to prison.)

I will say, in my 8 years working at that hotel, all my fellow workers--and I--were conscientious employees who worked hard and to the best of their abilities. In fact, several of my former union colleagues who stayed in the hotel industry--I didn't--have gone on to high-level hotel management positions here in NYC.

(I think there were occasionally problem employees among the kitchen staff, and our Assistant GM during one period was apparently a coke addict, and he pulled a pistol on someone in the kitchen once. He disappeared after that, and we heard he had died. Year later, I learned he hadn't died but had put out that cover story to evade some unsavory characters who were unhappy with him and wanted to "work things out." There are problem employees in management just as among the proles. Two of the three GMS we had while I worked there were functioning alcoholics.)

mockturtle said...

It seems that teachers can be fired for just about anything nowadays except incompetence.

Mark said...

There is nothing uniquely Nazi about the raised, full extension of the arm, salute. Good Americans did it back then before the Nazis.

Gahrie said...

"The Nazi hysteria is so precious. Meanwhile, Communists get a pass."

2. They have no recognizable uniforms, salutes, or iconography equal to the Nazis.


Shit...I agree with Comrade Marvin.

4. The Communists don't exist anymore.

Bullshit. They just call themselves Socialists now...kind of like the moderate American Left keeps bouncing back and forth between Progressive and Liberal. They're still destroying lives in Cuba, China and Venezuela and doing their worst to take control here.

Robert Cook said...

"Robert, you are smart enough to know that this is NOT True;
the USSR was our co-belligerent, they were NEVER allied with the US. We both fought the Nazis, we were NOT in alliance with them. Words have meanings, and those meanings MEAN things."


For our mutual purposes in WWII, this is a distinction without a difference. The cohort of nations termed "the Allies" included the U.S.S.R.

Bob Boyd said...

Ironically, this is what would happen if actual Nazis were running the school and a teacher made a joke about their salute.

Gahrie said...

Teacher's unions aren't unions but lobby groups. Contributions in return for laws.

That's because most teachers work for the Government and not private businesses. In order to get better working conditions and raises, they have to convince politicians to change the rules.

Narayanan said...

@Gilbar ... Iow WWII was FDR collusion with Stalin to get Americans killed.

Words have meaning!!

Now who did Woodrow Wilson collusion with to get Americans killed ...

Gahrie said...

Robert, you are smart enough to know that this is NOT True;
the USSR was our co-belligerent, they were NEVER allied with the US.


The FDR administration was very much allied with the Soviets. Our nation dodged a bullet when FDR replaced Wallace with Truman.

But the USSR did still consider themselves our enemy. The Soviets never had a problem making temporary alliances with their enemies.

Mark said...

By the way, "Heil Hitler" does NOT mean "Hail Hitler," as Wikipedia said it did until two minutes ago, when I edited the entry.

"Heil" means "salvation," as in "Hitler is Salvation." And "sieg" translates as "victory" -- Victory is our Salvation.

Notice that the first variant -- Heil Hitler -- also equates Hitler with Christ.

Robert Cook said...

"I teach US History and Government."

Boy! Given your general comments here, I'd guess you teach a distinctly unnuanced version of history...sort of the "Jack Chick Comics" version.

Michael said...

Robert COOK
I was in a syndicate that owned the Berkshire Place hotel at 52 and Madison back in the 80s. Wonderful, professional, staff from the GM to the bell staff. I became friends with one of the bell staff and always made a point of stopping by to say hello, years after we sold the asset. I believe the shortage of professional hotel workers in NY is always acute enough not to require union representation.

Francisco D said...

One of the Left's most important efforts is to convince us that speech is hurtful and needs to be regulated.

They have to fire people who unintentionally give offense. It's the same as punching a student in the mouth.

Gahrie said...

distinctly unnuanced version of history.

If you mean I tell the truth about the Communists you'd be right. But I tell all of my classes the same two things.

1) Don't believe any thing anyone tells you, even me...always verify or listen to the other side.

2) I clearly state when I am giving my opinion rather than fact. I give my opinions, and tell the students that they're different from other teachers and professors, and why they are different.

MayBee said...

What has happened to us what has happened to us what has happened to us what has happened to us?

Robert Cook said...

"The Soviets never had a problem making temporary alliances with their enemies."

Neither have we. It's all realpolitik, all the time. Our "allies" are those who, at any time, will do as we tell them or whose partnership benefits us in some way. We betray our allies easily and swiftly when their partnership is no longer profitable or useful to us or when they become too independent, as shown in recent history with Hussein and Noriega.

Freeman Hunt said...

Stalag 17 clip.

Mark said...

Meanwhile, a variation of "heil" -- "heiliger" -- means "holy" or "sacred."

There were intentionally religious cult overtones to saying "Heil Hitler."

Robert Cook said...

"I was in a syndicate that owned the Berkshire Place hotel at 52 and Madison back in the 80s."

That's when I was a NYC hotel worker, (front desk clerk, cashier, night clerk, night auditor)--from 1981, when I arrived in NYC, to 1989.

Bay Area Guy said...

In the spirit of diversity and inclusion, shouldn't we be allowing Hitler in the classroom?

Freeman Hunt said...

Parents should yank kids from a school like that. Parents should also keep lists of colleges they will and won't pay for. Don't pay for the reeducation camps with the straight jacket uniforms.

Mark said...

"Stalag 17" was on TCM the other day. Watched a good portion of it. What a bad movie. Maybe not "bad," but more like a dud.

Gahrie said...

We betray our allies easily and swiftly when their partnership is no longer profitable or useful to us or when they become too independent, as shown in recent history with Hussein and Noriega.

So you would have preferred that we continue to support Noriega and Hussein? At least we never betrayed either of them the way we did Gaddafi.

Robert Cook said...

I love Stalag 17! I've seen it many times and know it by heart. (Oddly, the last I saw it was 20 years ago, on the tv in my hospital room when I was being treated for leukemia.) It doesn't seem possible it's been so long!

roesch/voltaire said...

I guess Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator would be a trigger point for thesis poor students. I just finished reading Sapiens A brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari and highly recommend it for a clear look at ourselves

Robert Cook said...

"So you would have preferred that we continue to support Noriega and Hussein? At least we never betrayed either of them the way we did Gaddafi."

Why not?

The better question is: why do be ally ourselves with horrid brutes to being with? Because we're horrid brutes too, and we sub-contract with horrid brutes in other parts of the world to help us in our endeavors.

And yes, I left Gaddafi out of my list of recently betrayed U.S. allies.

Anyway, I must leave this forum for now, as other responsibilities beckon!

readering said...

I have Coddling reserved at library but for negative review see yesterday's WaPo.

JaimeRoberto said...

Another comedy about Hitler is Er Ist Wieder Da in German or Look Who's Back in English.

Michael K said...


I love Stalag 17! I've seen it many times and know it by heart.


It was a play before it was a movie. You probably knew that.

Mark said...

Stalag 17 and Hogan's Heroes and The Great Escape and The Producers and other films/TV that treated the Nazis and WWII as comedies were all produced in wake of the war by people personally involved or affected by it.

Playing all that evil for a laugh might have been an understandable coping mechanism back then, but I wonder if it ended up detracting historically from people's understanding today of the horror of it all.

The Great Escape is a fun film. But I would like to see a remake that was not so "fun" and instead told the story dramatically and seriously.

Drago said...

Francisco D: "One of the Left's most important efforts is to convince us that speech is hurtful and needs to be regulated."

The Left's/LLR's most important effort is to convince us that non-leftist speech is actually violence and that actual violence by the Left is really just speech.

The Left/LLR's intend to advance their Orwellian thinking to the point where only they are allowed to speak and to force everyone else to accept and verbalize the lies the Left puts forth.

Vaclev Havel said it very well in his "The Power of the Powerless".

Otto said...

Ann what do you mean by "forbidden thing"? That sounds theological.

buwaya said...

Just an amusing anecdote to illustrate the general case.
This is all because of the corruption of your great universities.
The rot there spread down, and across, to everything, even expensive private schools.

Of all your social problems, the worst is the corruption of your elite. It is something they are doing to themselves, to their own children.

The absolute first step in solving your decadence problem is to burn down Harvard.
I don't see that happening, therefore my conclusion has not changed.

You are doomed.

The Crack Emcee said...

Mark said...

"There were intentionally religious cult overtones to saying "Heil Hitler.""

And they had SS guards doing yoga - just like NewAgers today. And they promoted homeopathy and other imaginary concoctions - just like NewAgers today. They were all into promoting their health and purity - just like NewAgers today. They even consulted and promoted psychics - just like NewAgers today. And they wanted mythical legends - just like NewAgers today. Oh, the whole smorgasbord of NewAge nonsense led right to political disaster - just as it is for the Democrats today. Garbage in - Garbage out.

Let the Republicans keep this up and we might see this whole cracker barrel come down.

Yancey Ward said...

I would have liked to have seen the students stand up for the teacher just exactly the way Althouse described, but here is the thing- the only students likely to do so are the ones who are not drenched in the SJW ethos, and the school would quickly expel all of those who dared give the salute in support of the teacher.

Freeman Hunt said...

"Stalag 17" was on TCM the other day. Watched a good portion of it. What a bad movie. Maybe not "bad," but more like a dud.

?!

"Stalag 17 and Hogan's Heroes and The Great Escape and The Producers and other films/TV that treated the Nazis and WWII as comedies were all produced in wake of the war by people personally involved or affected by it.

"Playing all that evil for a laugh might have been an understandable coping mechanism back then, but I wonder if it ended up detracting historically from people's understanding today of the horror of it all.

"The Great Escape is a fun film. But I would like to see a remake that was not so "fun" and instead told the story dramatically and seriously."

Have you seen The Great Escape?

tds said...

Who's the snitch?

Ann Althouse said...

"I have an audiobook for you. The Captive Mind by Czeslaw Milosz."

Thanks for the recommendation. I wish there were a Kindle version! But I see there's an audiobook. I normally buy both (if you buy Kindle, you can add on the Audiobook cheaply at Amazon). I like to listen to books while I do my long walks (my main exercise, most days). Then, I like to have the Kindle, so if there's anything I want to blog, I can cut and paste.

But I'll probably get to this. I know he won the Nobel Prize for Literature, so I trust it's very well written.

buwaya said...

Everybody has or had myths and legends.
Also religions, of one sort or another.
And standards of health and purity, of one sort or another.
And daily or periodic public prayers, greetings and rituals.
To each place and age its own.

In military training we are taught a great number of ceremonies no?
All of these are in a continuity from several centuries back, if not longer.

This all is not "new age", it is old-age. It is human.

Ann Althouse said...

""Stalag 17 and Hogan's Heroes and The Great Escape and The Producers and other films/TV that treated the Nazis and WWII as comedies were all produced in wake of the war by people personally involved or affected by it."

Also during the time of a war that many of us thought made no sense and was being promoted by those who wanted us to take a big threat seriously. In the anti-war counterculture of the Vietnam era, making light of the scary forces of world domination was a good tactic.

Jupiter said...

Robert Cook said...

"4. The Communists don't exist anymore."

The most populous nation on Earth might disagree with you about that. Of course, the ChiComs aren't "true" Communists. True Communism has never been tried.

Henry said...

Yancey Ward -- read the article. Students did protest in favor of the teacher and a large number signed a petition in his support. The majority of the other teachers also supported Mr. Frisch.

Mark said...

Have you seen The Great Escape?

Many times.

Rob said...

Imagine how difficult it is for Friends Seminary to teach Huckleberry Finn, with its sobriquet for the slave Jim. Just kiddding! There's no way they teach Huckleberry Finn.

roesch/voltaire said...

Ann Althouse can you confirm Michail K's claim that the universities are riddled with communist as in all my years working at four different colleges and universities I am not sure that I ever met a communist. Is anyone who reads who reads Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Hedidegger, Lyotard, and. now discarded Foucault count as a communist? But of course these matter of whose religion is right, Marxism or liberalism or capitalism are important discussions.

DanTheMan said...

>> On today’s campus, words and symbols can be seen as a form of violence

This is the Big Lie the left relies on: Contrary opinions are physically dangerous.


JaffaneseAmerican said...

I once gave a talk on religious liberty at a conference sponsored by an evangelical college. I used the flag salute cases as an example. So I had the mostly student audience of over one hundred students replicate the salute described in the case--which of course resembled the Roman/Nazi salute. I made some sort of joke about how this proved the Christian-Nazi identity. Fortunately, they laughed.

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

The Coddling of the American Mind

RigelDog said...

Ironically, this is what would happen if actual Nazis were running the school and a teacher made a joke about their salute.>>>

I love this observation.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...


“The Nazi salute is culturally comedy.”

And has been my entire life. A simple way of mocking the evil and overbearing that was understood by everybody, from our little kid selves to our WWII vet Dads. This is in no small part about intimidating the students. We can fire a teacher for some unintentional offense, we’ll absolutely burn your ass if you get out of line.

whitney said...

"Then, I like to have the Kindle, so if there's anything I want to blog, I can cut and paste."

I agree. That is a problem with audiobooks. I read a lot of nonfiction to and that also means I don't get the bibliography and index

Freeman Hunt said...

Have you seen The Great Escape?

Many times.


And you felt like it just played evil for laughs? I feel like we watched two different movies.

Mark said...

Also during the time of a war that many of us thought made no sense and was being promoted by those who wanted us to take a big threat seriously.

Imagine if they had played The Killing Fields for laughs.

I represented a guy from Cambodia once. He was the only one of his family - that he knew - who got out alive. He had been separated from his wife and kids, and never learned for sure what happened to them. He understandably assumed the worst.

I also live in an area with a large Vietnamese population. They are thankful we were there.

buwaya said...

Roesch,

I have met several such teachers in US high schools.
I would have met more for certain if I had known my kids' college lecturers.
Perhaps you over-define "communist".

Imagine the sort of points of view being excluded from academia, and whether these would be "fascist".

Jupiter said...

roesch/voltaire said...
"Ann Althouse can you confirm Michail K's claim that the universities are riddled with communist as in all my years working at four different colleges and universities I am not sure that I ever met a communist."

You may not have met many Communists, although I'm sure you met a few. But you see a communist every time you look in the mirror. You can see his ugly mug right above the picture of Che.

stevew said...

Dick Shawn: On April 17, 1987, during a performance at University of California, San Diego's Mandeville Hall—which included his portrayal of a politician reciting such campaign clichés as "If elected, I will not lay down on the job"—Shawn suffered a fatal heart attack and collapsed face-down on the stage. The audience initially assumed that it was part of his act; but after he had remained motionless on the stage for several minutes, a stage hand examined him and asked if a physician was present.

After CPR had been initiated, the audience was asked to leave the auditorium, but most remained, still assuming that it was all part of Shawn's act. Many began leaving—still unsure of what they had witnessed—only after paramedics arrived.

The Crack Emcee said...

buwaya said...

"Everybody has or had myths and legends."

Yes, but the Nazis went with Madam Blavatsky & Co., which seems pretty clear.

"Also religions, of one sort or another."

The Nazis went with the Catholics - and we know who they are now.

"And standards of health and purity, of one sort or another."

Nazis and NewAgers also have apologists in common - lots of them.

"And daily or periodic public prayers, greetings and rituals."

Nuremberg rallies, anyone?

"To each place and age its own."

Yes, but we're not always told we're like the others, as we are the Germans. And the evidence isn't there, as it is with NewAgers.

"In military training we are taught a great number of ceremonies no?"

Sure, but no NewAge bullshit.

"All of these are in a continuity from several centuries back, if not longer."

Yeah, but NewAge isn't "ancient teachings" but cobbled together nonsense from today - with a patina of the past added for "authenticity".

"This all is not "new age", it is old-age."

You are ignorant, not informative.

"It is human."

It is mental slavery, causing people to kill themselves, and others - still - and so are you.

The American capacity for evil - just to appear sophisticated - is pretty much a given, for me, after seeing American whites in Yurp trying to win those fruitcakes' approval. The idea Americans are just as bad (we DID rape at the end of WWII as well) is one we want to push as far away from us as possible, but we can't: we've got the bug, and trying to make NewAge murderers look innocent is just as bad as what the Germans did, until they, too, discovered the errors of their ways.

NewAgers, and their apologists, are mentally ill and/or lacking the capacity for critical thought. It's no surprise the Nazis got away with it as long as they did with this much - and this form of - ignorance defending their actions.

mockturtle said...

But I'll probably get to this. I know he won the Nobel Prize for Literature,, so I trust it's very well written. (Italics mine)

LOL! So did Bob Dylan.

Francisco D said...

"Our "allies" are those who, at any time, will do as we tell them or whose partnership benefits us in some way. We betray our allies easily and swiftly when their partnership is no longer profitable or useful to us or when they become too independent, as shown in recent history with Hussein and Noriega."

Cookie,

I do not disagree, except for your "independence" assertion. Saddam was not independent. He was trying to be the hero of the radical Arab Muslim world. It's a smart ploy to cover up his crime family rule over Iraq. He was only a partner in the sense that his war with Iran created attrition that served our needs.

I think that the US is quite a bit more sentimental and naive about its allies. It takes us longer to recognize that the partnership is (or always was) a scam.

mccullough said...

The Quakers didn’t stop the Nazis. They were safe because others fought.

Quakers are fucking cowards. They are safe because my grandfather fought while they didn’t.

Bob Boyd said...

@ Crack

Here's a homeopathy story for you:

This guy isn't feeling well so he goes to his homeopath doctor. The doc checks him out and says, "It seems you have a tape worm."
The guy says, "Oh no. I hope I don't have to take any toxic drugs or anything like that."
The doc says, " No no. We have a natural remedy, but it's..uh...some find it an ordeal."
The guy says, "That's okay as long it's natural."
So the doc tells him to bend over and drop his pants. Then he reaches into a desk drawer and brings out a banana and an oatmeal cookie. The doc tells the guy to brace himself then he shoves the banana and the oatmeal cookie up the guy's ass.
After the guy regains his composure, the doc tells him to go home, don't take a dump no matter what and come back on Thursday.
So Thursday rolls around and the guy is back in the doctor's office. The doc asks him, "How are feeling?"
The guy says, "Well...I..."
The doc says, "That's perfectly normal. We're going to have to have another treatment."
"Oh boy," says the guy, "Are you sure?"
The doc is sure, so the guy bends over, drops his pants, the doc shoves in another banana and follows it with another oatmeal cookie. He gives the guy the same instructions as before and says, "I'll see you next Thursday."
A week later, the guy comes in, obviously very uncomfortable and the doc performs his exam. When the doc tells the guy to bend over and drop his pants, the guy lets out a small whimper, but complies.
The doc takes out a banana and shoves it up the guys ass. But then he just sits back and waits.
After a few minutes, a big tapeworm pokes his head out and says, "Where's my oatmeal cookie?"
Quick as blink, the doc grabs the tapeworm around the neck and jerks him bodily right out of there and the guy is cured.

mockturtle said...

New Age is self-worship.

todd galle said...

I can think of two swastika symbols in PA. One is a Native American tobacco pouch on exhibit in the State Museum. The second can be found in the State Library, which has a central atrium. The ornamental railing on one of the floors encircling the atrium is composed of swastikas. The Library was built in the early 1930s. If I'm not mistaken the whole 'heil hitler' thing wasn't mandatory until the 1944 assassination attempt.

The Crack Emcee said...

The idea Americans are just as bad (we DID rape at the end of WWII as well) is one we want to push as far away from us as possible, but we can't - America was torturing blacks as we fought the Nazis.

We should just get out of the Nazi/NewAge business altogether.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

1. They were our allies during the war.

They were allies with the Nazis at the beginning of the war.

2. They have no recognizable uniforms, salutes, or iconography equal to the Nazis.
they have the blood red red flag and the hammer and sickle, the pioneer salute and call each other "comrade"

3. We didn't and don't care about the millions they killed or who died as a result of their rule. (We didn't care about the Jews, either, at the time: we turned away a ship bearing nearly 1000 Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, and they had to return to Europe. Our post-war concern for them is a result of political circumstances.)
You do not care about the victims of communism because you approve of the murders carried out by you ideological brethren. Geez man, try reading a book or two. Start with "Bloodlands" and see if you can learn a little empathy.

4. The Communists don't exist anymore.
the Communist Party of USA still exists. The universities are full of communists revolutionaries. Every European country has an established communist party with elected representatives.

What an amazing display of ignorance.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bob Boyd said...

"Here's a homeopathy story for you..."

BWAAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

buwaya said...

Crack,

I am Catholic, born of Catholics, born of Catholics, going back to the Dark Ages.
And the intense and funky sort of Catholic, with all the images of tortured saints, bleeding Christ, processions, nuns and monks, altar boy, the works. None of this guitar mass kumbaya.

We had tradition up the ying yang.

You have to live it to understand it. And, I think, to see it in context elsewhere.

robother said...

The last Quaker teaching at the school. I suspect this had more to do with the director--and the people who hired him to make their school even more attractive to the Right Kinds of People--taking any excuse to get rid of this last vestige of the idiosyncratic Quakers. (Presumably a process that had happened long ago at DC's SIdwell.)

Yancey Ward said...

Henry wrot:

"Yancey Ward -- read the article. Students did protest in favor of the teacher and a large number signed a petition in his support. The majority of the other teachers also supported Mr. Frisch."

Signing a petition carries no risk, nor does verbal support. But mockery of the reason for Frisch's dismissal does carry personal risk. If they weren't willing to go that far, then their "protests" are pretty fucking empty gestures.

The Crack Emcee said...

buwaya said...

"You have to live it to understand it. And, I think, to see it in context elsewhere."

I see the poor giving their money to finance pervs in dresses (who claim to be special and run a scam) to live in luxury. I see a general public, so enthralled with religious nonsense about their own fate, that they've not only lost the capacity to empathize - even with victims of child rape - but to understand when it's time to shut down the rapist's vehicle for making it happen.

It's evil, writ large.



Paddy O said...

If people had listened to the Quakers, there wouldn't have been Nazis. Or slavery.

Don't blame them for not being listened to, and then for continuing to be the kind of people who got it right the first time.

As for not being brave, tell it to Mary Dyer.

PhilD said...

"The Nazi hysteria is so precious. Meanwhile, Communists get a pass."


That goes back to the aftermath of WW2 when the Western allies snatched defeat out of victory by turning themselves into, sorry to say it, arselickers of Stalin. Stalin, that is, 'Uncle Joe', got a pass on his crimes (and that includes starting WW2 together with Hitler). An enormous propaganda victory for the Left and the Left has been banking on it since then.

mockturtle said...

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev. 12:12

Gahrie said...

Why not?

Noriega was arrested and Hussein deposed because they didn't stop doing things we wanted them to stop doing. They went rogue. Gaddafi was eliminated because we abandoned him after he did what we asked him to.

The need to oppose the threat of Communism forced us to ally with many unsavory characters, in exactly the same way that the need to oppose fascism forced us to ally with the Soviets in WW II.

rcocean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
buwaya said...

"New age is self worship"

Maybe so. It depends on how one defines it. A lot of "new age" sorts self define as Buddhist or Hindu, or "spiritual", or some conglomeration, and adopt practices and attitudes and superstitions to suit themselves. Its not one thing.

I've been in San Francisco 32 years now, and I've seen a lot. I also come from a place with intense pre-Christian superstitions, religious syncreticism - Chinese Tao-Christianity for instance (the Chinese have tons of these things), or the ubiquitous witches who integrate pagan spirits, Saints and Christ into their "system", and etc.

rcocean said...

WW2 ended 73 years ago. The Nazi hysteria would be clownish and funny if it wasn't a symptom of the Left-wing censorship that is de-platforming conservatives.

If you don't like this kind of thing, stop being defensive. Stop answering every insane PC attack with "Well, he cant' be a racist because..."

I don't care if he was Jewish or not Jewish. Or whether his great grandmother voted for Hitler in 1933. No one deserves to get attacked for making a mild joke about Hitler in 2018!

Gahrie said...

but to understand when it's time to shut down the rapist's vehicle for making it happen.

Did you just advocate the elimination of the Catholic Church?

Yancey Ward said...

I know I just laughed and laughed and laughed when Ives the Mole was shot on the fence. The laughs reached the high point when the 50 escapees were executed at the end.

Ralph L said...

The Society of Friends has long unfriended those who transgressed. They have a word for it that isn't German.

rcocean said...

I love Hogan's Heroes as a little kid, but tried to watch an episode on DVD, about 10 years ago. Man, is it terrible. Crane, Klemper and John Banner are pretty good, but the jokes are terrible and the rest of the cast stinks.

It was probably written for 14 y/o boys back in 60s, which is why I liked it when I was 14.

mockturtle said...

Buwaya reports: I am Catholic, born of Catholics, born of Catholics, going back to the Dark Ages.
And the intense and funky sort of Catholic, with all the images of tortured saints, bleeding Christ, processions, nuns and monks, altar boy, the works. None of this guitar mass kumbaya.

We had tradition up the ying yang.

You have to live it to understand it. And, I think, to see it in context elsewhere.


So you were heavily indoctrinated from your birth. Some might even say 'brainwashed'.

Yancey Ward said...

Is David McCallum the only still living actor who was in The Great Escape? I had thought Richard Attenborough was still alive, but I now see he died in 2014.

rcocean said...

Why do people keep bring up this crap about "America didn't care about the Jews" - what is it about Americans, they keep WANTING to believe lies about their own country.

Bizarre.

Its like that dumb crap about "We should have bombed Auschwitz" with 90% of the clowns who say it don't even know the history, and they don't want to know it. They just want to repeat the lie. Weird.

Wince said...

A few observations:

1.) Burt Reynolds thought Dick Shawn was funny. Reynolds is seated on Carson's couch in the clip.

2.) Col. Klink was always threatened by his Nazi superiors with what he feared most: being sent to the "Eastern Front" against Communist Russia.

3.) Robert Cook said...
That's because of teacher's unions...god bless 'em!! Unions are a protection against arbitrary and/or unreasonable treatment or termination of employees by management.

Isn't the privatization model better, because it's more like allowing the parents to unionize on behalf of their children? Aren't parents in the better position in instances like this to decide whether a teacher's skill is worth his "baggage"?

buwaya said...

We are all heavily indoctrinated from birth.
It takes some self-discovery to understand how, and the substance of it.
In the modern world with its anomie it is much harder to brand or label your indoctrination, but its there.

My indoctrination is pre-modern, of the clearly-branded sort.

William said...

It's a historical fact that Muslims and Christians were vehemently opposed to usury, i.e. the buying and selling of money. They exhibited no such opposition to the buying and selling of humans. The human race is a work in progress and apt to be wrong on some pretty basic things. The vehemence and righteousness with which someone professes a belief is no evidence of its validity. Question authority and Colin Kaepernnick.

CR said...

Firing this teacher was itself a form of fascism.

Wince said...

Here's a great clip on Kaepernick from Tucker Carlson's interview with former Marine and talk host Jesse Kelly who makes several excellent, often funny points including the following @ 2:00.

Jesse Kelly: Kaepernick "violated the one rule of every employee in the country: make sure your talent outweighs your baggage."

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5832300515001/?#sp=show-clips

Yancey Ward said...

I guess there are at least 4 of the other actors still alive according to IMDB.

gilbar said...

"But the USSR did still consider themselves our enemy. The Soviets never had a problem making temporary alliances with their enemies."

when i said that it was important to remember that they were NOT our allies, i meant that THEY didn't think of us as allies any more than they did germans. If they were our allies, they would have declared war on Japan or, at least quit interning our airplanes .

The Great Thing that happened in the 20th century, was when hitler decided to attack russia instead of waiting for england to starve . Until 1941 the USSR was (according to Robert Cook's definition) ALLIED with the NAZI's. Thanx to hitler, that ALLIANCE was terminated

buwaya said...

Good point by robother above about "the last Quaker".
Many US Catholic schools have purged "the last Catholic", being inconvenient to the institutional culture.

The institutional culture trickles down from above, that is, the high ground of academia. The source of indoctrination of the American elite.

As I said above, it goes up to Harvard. Burn it out at the source.

PhilD said...

"Did you just advocate the elimination of the Catholic Church?"

Why, it seems that for the esteemed Mr. Gahrie the Catholics are the new Jews, to be eliminated.

Michael K said...

I also come from a place with intense pre-Christian superstitions, religious syncreticism -

One of Lansdale's methods was the prey on the superstition of the Huks. Once they followed a column of the guerrillas and grabbed the last man in the column and cut his throat so he bled out. Then they spread a rumor that vampires got him.

The Huks were so frightened they came out of the mountains where they were secure. Many took the amnesty deal.

PhilD said...

"They exhibited no such opposition to the buying and selling of humans."


And yet in Christian Western Europe slavery all but disappeared during the 'Dark Ages'.
Of course, it made a massive return in the form of 'Black slavery' after, ironically, the renaissance but not in Europe proper. And even then it once again disappeared though it took 3 centuries.
Timeline of the abolition of slavery"

Of course, one might consider the different socialistic systems as a form of slavery, like illustrated by say 'The Gulag Archipel" or the 'Killing Fields' or for that matter Auschwitz. But that isn't 'Christian' but post- and anti-Christian.

Iowan2 said...

We will see Linda Lovelace starring in the directors cut of Deep Throat on NBC prime time, before we see a Bugs Bunny cartoon broadcast on the dark web.

buwaya said...

Slavery went out in Europe even before slavery was abolished in Europe.
The last European slaves were being traded to the Tatars, Turks and Maghrebis, the last victims notably Baltic pagans, the market wasn't in Europe.

The Catholic Church pressed for abolition from the Dark Ages on, but I think the major factor was economics. Slavery was obsolete.

Economics brought it back in the form of African slavery, due to immense labor shortages in the New World.

mockturtle said...

EDH observes: 2.) Col. Klink was always threatened by his Nazi superiors with what he feared most: being sent to the "Eastern Front" against Communist Russia.

The Russians were a formidable force who ultimately defeated Hitler [or, as one could argue, Hitler defeated himself via the Russians]. It was wise of us to ally ourselves with Stalin at that time. Had the Hitler-Stalin alliance held, our fight would have been a much more difficult--perhaps impossible--endeavor.

gbarto said...

4. The Communists don't exist anymore.

I've lost count. How many countries are run by bona fide Nazis these days?

The Crack Emcee said...

Gahrie said...

"Did you just advocate the elimination of the Catholic Church?"

By the Catholics, themselves, yes. Why? I'd advocate ending The Black Civil Rights Movement if it was a cover for child rapists. Africa Bambaataa is being found out as one, putting a BIG crimp on Hip-Hop now, so it's time may come, too. We gotta do what we gotta do:

Somebody HAS to be the adults.

William said...

The pursuit of wealth was frowned on by Church fathers and Bolsheviks. As Dr. Johnson observed, a man is seldom so wholesomely employed as when he is making money, but intellectuals of a certain bent are vehemently opposed to such activities.......Maybe the collective farm was created in the same spirit as the early montastic farm. I'm bound to say, however, that the early monastic farms produced advances in agriculture whilst the collective farms produced mass starvation.

michaele said...

I thought it was rather coincidental that Burt Reynolds was one of the other Johnny Carson guests in the Dick Shawn clip. And, I couldn't help but notice what a generous laugher Burt was when Dick sat on the couch and shared some more of his schtick.

The Crack Emcee said...

mockturtle said...

"Hitler defeated himself via the Russians"

The more I look at it, that's the only conclusion that could be reached: he never really stood a chance of winning.

Lewis Wetzel said...

What ended slavery?
Capitalism and the British Empire, two of the most hated things in history.
Academics and student activists have freed exactly 0 slaves.

n.n said...

This is why modern-day abortion rires are practiced under a layer of privacy. The Pro-Choice Church, Democrat Party, feminists, chamber operators, and "good" people, do not want to be linked to socialists, communists, fascists, and other collective efforts in this genre.

Howard said...

Anti-kneeling snowflakes claim to be lesser snowflakes compared to pro-PC snowflakes. It's snowflakes all the way down

William said...

Nazism was more akin to Bolshevism than to capitalism or even imperialism.

Earnest Prole said...

The most famous pop-culture example of mocking the Nazi salute has to be the monkey Sig Heil in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Churchy LaFemme: said...

With my e-ink Kindle, I can have it read *any* book out loud. I had to adjust the voice to a British lady and the slowest pace before I could follow it consistently, but now it's great. On long night drives, I just plug it into the car stereo "aux" jack and the miles fly by.

(Of course there are a few pronounciations you have to get accustomed to, and a few quirks. For instance, one author I follow likes to use "Hmm." as a verbal signifier. The kindle invariably renders that as "Hectameters", which took me a while to catch as it is a steampunk fantasy setting where that could plausibly be an interjection of some sort)

William said...

The only really solid achievement of the USSR was that it defeated Hitler. That really was an achievement, but the Bolsheviks created the world in which it was possible for someone like Hitler to exist,

RK said...

director of diversity and inclusion

Schools now have a political officer.

walter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lewis Wetzel said...

Trotsky gave the Germans the best part of Russia (it's industrial West) as the price for peace in the treaty of Brest-Litovsk (1917). The allies foolishly made the Germans give it back in the armistace. If you want a single causation for the rise of both Communism and fascism, and World War Two, that will do.

walter said...

Teacher opted to characterize the positioning as a Hitler gesture to avoid it being associated with the insidious societal scourge that is yoga.

Michael Fitzgerald said...

Stalag 17 stunk, can't stand William Holden. The Great Escape is awwwwfulll. Jaw dropping lousy. Of all the reputed "classics" that I hate, this is one that surprised me the most. It's like a 2 hour episode of all the unfunny bits from Hogan's Heroes. Lousy. The only one close is Manchurian Candidate, which is even worse, but at least I can laugh at it, cause it's so stupid, Democrat party stupid.

PhilD said...

"The pursuit of wealth was frowned on by Church fathers and Bolsheviks."

And by Christ himself if one reads the parable of the rich man and the eye of the needle.
Thing is, The Church accepts private property as dogmatic. And when you have private property and the rule of law you will get a form of capitalism. And I'd say that the intellectual and economical power house pre-reformation renaissance Italy was illustrates that quit adequately.

As for the monasteries, they were voluntary and they were but part of society. Not something imposed on society. And, as an example, they created wealth, like in the Low countries were they were at the front of reclaiming land from the sea. To compare them to anything 'bolsjevik' is plain nonsense.

William said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

Blogger Howard said...
Anti-kneeling snowflakes claim to be lesser snowflakes compared to pro-PC snowflakes. It's snowflakes all the way down


Howard, people have to right to choose their entertainment. The NFL is entertainment, not a national shrine.

Pro football is dying anyway and they just joined up with people who hate football for "Toxic Masculinity."


The NFL was already on the down escalator with CTE. They just made an alliance with their enemies. I'm not surprised a bunch of PE majors figured this out without help.

William said...

There was a gate in Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle". It was a narrow passage. Camels had to unload their baggage before they could pass through. The eye of the needle was thus an impediment but not an impossibility for a rich man to pass through. My understanding of Christian theology leads me to believe that you can keep your New Balance shoes in the afterlife but not your Nikes. Gucci loafers are out of the question.....Some of these rules are arbitrary but we keep making them.

Francisco D said...

"The pursuit of wealth was frowned on by Church fathers and Bolsheviks. And by Christ himself if one reads the parable of the rich man and the eye of the needle."

How was wealth achieved in the days of Christ?

Taxation and crony deals with the powerful - sort of like today's Democrats hope to achieve wealth, at least for themselves.

Drago said...

"Hitler defeated himself via the Russians"

Crack: "The more I look at it, that's the only conclusion that could be reached: he never really stood a chance of winning."

Absolutely false.

Hitler had the Russians defeated. Millions of Russians killed and hundreds of thousands captured in the opening months of Operation Barbarossa.

Army Group Center had Moscow literally within its sights, with all effective Soviet military capabilities devastated. All Hitler had to do was order Army Group Center into Moscow.

Stalin would have been "il Duce'd" from a lamp post and the Soviets would have been knocked out of the war leaving Germany in complete control of 80% of all soviet industrial capacity with its entire army wintering comfortably in Moscow.

But, inexplicably, due to some smaller force maneuvering to the South that Hitler wanted cleaned out, he delayed and diverted significant forces to shag after the remnants down south along with the German Army Group forces focused there.

This delay allowed Stalin to make the call for defense of Mother Russia and build up defenses around Moscow prior to the Germans reinitiating the attack weeks later.

The soviets then held off outside of Moscow and the Germans were caught in the open during that astonishingly brutal winter. The Germans never again regained the advantage and the inevitable slow retreat began.

Remember, knocking out the Soviets would have left a bedraggled England alone to stand against the axis powers.....at least until that December in '41.

Big Mike said...

A perennial: Why is Nazism better than Socialism?

ANS: Because no one ever says that the only problem with Nazism is that it has never been properly implemented.

Francisco D said...

"Anti-kneeling snowflakes claim to be lesser snowflakes compared to pro-PC snowflakes. It's snowflakes all the way down."

Gee Howard,

It looks like you took that weekend seminar course in Leftist Trolling.

Your childishness suggest that you have a lot more to learn.

PhilD said...

Um, no;
"When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Anyway, this was but a minor point of my argument.
I repeat it because the first sentence, "... Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." forms the basis (or perhaps one of?) for monasticism.

Ps. Me calling this a parable was something of a misnomer

Meade said...

"...when he suddenly fell forward on the stage during one of his spiels about the Holocaust. "

Died doing what he loathed.

Ralph L said...

Moscow didn't help Napoleon very much.

PhilD said...

I think the Germans also could have defeated the Russians if Hitler had been able to keep his racism under control. The Germans were first hailed liberators until they showed they were just as bad as Stalin's regime.

Bay Area Guy said...

RCook reminds us that the US and the USSR were "allies" in WW2 against Hitler.

RCook ignores the lead-up between 9/39 & 6/41 when the Soviets joined with the Nazis to START WW2 by invading Poland and Finland and other countries.

Many liberals are blind to this which distorts their view of history and understanding of how evil the USSR really was.

buwaya said...

New article in Quilette (about the fate of a respectable paper on mathematical modelling of the evolutionary drivers of male variability, that is the extended range of male trait variation in all species. This is a well-noted fact going back to Darwin.

This was, it seems, considered politically controversial and the article

Paddy O said...

"There was a gate in Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle". It was a narrow passage. Camels had to unload their baggage before they could pass through..."

This is one of those "pastor illustrations" that sounds great, but entirely without any evidence.

Fernandinande said...


Man guilty of hate crime for filming pug's 'Nazi salutes'

Meade said...

"What ended slavery?
Capitalism and the British Empire, two of the most hated things in history."

Slavery has ended? Don't think so. But you might be partly right.

Still, what partly ended cannibalism?

A: slavery

buwaya said...

Quillette article by Theodore Hill, "Academic Activists.."

The interesting bit is the "deep state" sort of maneuvering described there, done in order to prevent publication in two respected mathematical journals.

Your disgusting depraved cultural politics has infected even your STEM departments.

The American brain is not closed, it is dead. The best anyone can do is hold the funeral, and the survivors should flee to Asia.

tim maguire said...

Liberalism isn't just a religion, it is a religion that believes in magic, the incantatory power of words. Just as saying "Bloody Mary" three times in front of a mirror will make her appear, so too, holding up your hand and saying "Heil Hitler" will make everyone a Nazi.

By magic. Truly the descendants of people who burned witches. And will do so again given half a chance.

Narayanan said...

Was Gregor Mendel in monastery?
Father of genetics!

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