September 21, 2018

Cory Booker and Brett Kavanaugh — Chris Cillizza pushes away whataboutism, but we might reach for it anyway.

"What makes Cory Booker's groping incident different than the allegations against Brett Kavanaugh."

That's the CNN headline for a piece by Chris Cillizza.

The automatic, easy, snarky answer: He's a Democrat.

I still haven't read the article, and I hadn't previously noticed there was a "groping incident" about Cory Booker. Is it an allegation or something we know happened? Anyway, to give an nonsnarky answer — again, before reading the article — I'd say: Cory Booker has a limited term and faces reelection. Brett Kavanaugh is up for a lifetime appointment.

Let's read this piece now:
New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker wrote in the early 1990s -- while a student at Stanford -- about an incident on New Year's Eve 1984 (when he was 15) in which he groped a female friend's breast after the two of them had kissed.
"With the 'Top Gun' slogan ringing in my head, I slowly reached for her breast," Booker wrote of that night. "After having my hand pushed away once, I reached my 'mark.'" The point of Booker's column was how that moment, and his work on the issue after, had changed him -- and his views on women, consent and assault -- forever. "It was a wake-up call," Booker wrote in his Stanford column. "I will never be the same."
You're already consensually kissing. You try to touch her breast and are pushed away, and you try again and — what? — the end of the story is missing. But, holy God, if that's what ruins your life these days, the world has gone mad. I wonder whether college-student Cory was bullshitting when he claimed to be changed forever by this "wake up" call. But, again, I don't know the end of the story. Did the woman take him to task for trying again? And what's the "Top Gun" slogan? Maybe Cillizza isn't telling the story straight.

So the difference between the 2 stories — and this is my opinion, not Cillizza's — is that Booker's story was a story he told on himself, as part of posturing and instructing about how to be a good man. I don't know if it's true, but he chose to tell it and tell it that way. What really happened? I have no idea. Kavanaugh is suffering through someone else's telling of what is purportedly his story, and it's not told in the template of how he became such a good man, but to frame him as secretly evil. Within that other person's story, he is brutal and ugly, not boyishly copping a feel that he later lavishly regrets.

Back to Cillizza:
The rise of the #MeToo movement and the cavalcade of high-profile men admitting to behavior that ranges from boorish to criminal has opened eyes and forced uncomfortable and important conversations. The accusations against Kavanaugh are another moment to examine our assumptions and talk openly about how we should bets [sic] approach these situations -- both now and going forward.
Oh, yes. Let's have a conversation about everything! Talk openly! How do you think that will go? Place your "bets."
What we don't need amid all of this is an epic bout of "whatboutism" [sic].
Yeah, don't come after my guy while I'm going after your guy. That's whataboutism! I want you to stand down while I take all my shots. Funnily enough, that's how all these "conversations" tend to go when we're encouraged to have a conversation about some hot subject.
What Booker did as a teenager wasn't right. And he has been and will be judged by voters on them. But to turn Booker into a political missile to prove hypocrisy misses the mark. This isn't about Booker. This is about Ford, Kavanaugh, and how we, together, figure out the right way forward.
Yes, tell us what this is about.  You call out "whatboutism" — AKA whataboutism— but I'm going to call out your "what-it's-about-ism." You don't get to restrict the subject to exactly the scope you like. When you do that, it's "what-it's-about-ism" (my coinage).

But of course, everything's different from everything else. We can talk about differences and samenesses. Don't tell me what to do.

IN THE COMMENTS: Nonapod said:
"an incident on New Year's Eve 1984 (when he was 15) in which he groped a female friend's breast after the two of them had kissed. 'With the 'Top Gun' slogan ringing in my head'"

Top Gun came out in 1986. This whole story is an anti-strawman.
Wow. I found 2 typos in Cillizza's piece — "whatboutism" and "bets" — so maybe "1984" is another typo.

Anyway, checking the release date of the movie — it is indeed 1986 — I found the "slogan," I believe. It's "I feel the need... the need for speed!" That's such a stupid sex slogan.

150 comments:

gahrie said...

Fuck Booker...what he did is not a crime.

I want to know why we're ignoring the much better supported allegations that Ellison abused a woman.

rcocean said...

How absurd. "Me Too" started because you had men forcing women to have sex with them, or forcing to watch them masturbate. It not only was sex, it was using their POWER to sexually abuse and humiliate.

Now, we're dredging up happened in fucking HS, 35 years ago, and men touching women's Breasts while making out.

As for Booker, I wouldn't trust a word he says. He has "crazy eyes".

rcocean said...

Does Booker, have eye lids.

The man is like a snake from the neck up.

mccullough said...

Kavanaugh already has a lifetime appointment.

So should he be impeached by the House and removed by the Senate?

The difference isn’t Kavanuagh’s Lifetime Appointment.

The difference is Booker admitted he sexually assaulted a drunk girl.

Kavanaugh denied that allegation.

The other difference is Kavanaugh has a wife and kids. Booker is a bachelor.

pchuck1966 said...

Kavanaugh denies it and Booker admitted his behavior. The allegations against Kavanaugh are pretty weak (no time, no place, no contemporaneous evidence) and need to be proven. Booker admitted his behavior.

So, one said he was guilty and one maintains his innocence.

Joshua Barker said...

The difference is that Booker admitted doing it and there is evidence of that admission... Kavanaugh has adamantly denied that anything even remotely like what Dr. Ford is claiming ever happened, and there is not one iota of evidence, aside from her assertions based on an extremely hazy, 36 year old "memory" that may or may not have been under the influence of alcohol...

Lucid-ides said...

But, holy God, if that's what ruins your life these days, the world has gone mad.

Sounds about right Ann.

Matthew Sablan said...

I bet Booker used the fact it changed him to impress a lot of people. "I used to be like other guys, but, now I'm sensitive and shit."

mccullough said...

What about Bob Menendez?

According to federal prosecutors, Menendez had sex with 14 year old girls in the Dominican Republic.

Booker testified as a character witness at Menendez trial.

Booker should be asked about this.

McConnell needs to call a floor vote to expel Mendez based on this allegation by federal prosecutors.

Let’s see how the Dem Senators vote.

But McConnell is a pussy.

tim maguire said...

That's an important difference.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Ford is accurately telling the truth--she was sexually assaulted and Kavanaugh did it. He was 17. Should what you did at 17 follow you around for the rest of your life? IMO, no. Even if he did it, it should not matter, he should be confirmed.

BUT...he also hid about it for years and is lying about it now. That's a problem. Forgiveness requires contrition, restitution requires a good act to offset the bad act.

Booker faced up to what he did and is entitled to leave it behind. Kavanaugh did not and is not.

Rob said...

It was Cory Booker's "I am Caligula" moment.

wild chicken said...

Exactly .. it's not comparable because he can be voted out. You see this stupid shit on Twitter all the time from people who should know better.

Use only the best arguments!

Bob said...

Hey, what about how Althouse voted for Obama?

Just kidding. That has been thrown around so much over the years I couldn't resist.

But, holy God, if that's what ruins your life these days, the world has gone mad.

Yep. And not so long ago, chivalry was so 19th century.

traditionalguy said...

The confusing part is that we are in a war between the sexes, but there are no sexes anymore. Everybody needs a Miranda warning now and a lawyer appointed for them who is an effective assistance of counsel.

Is it Time for the Military Tribunals with all male Officers yet.

Rob McLean said...

Everything's always "about" what the right people want it to be about, dammit. And that involves making the right people look good and the wrong people look bad.

Carry on.

walter said...

"whataboutism"
An invented word designed to shield hypocrisy.

walter said...

But I will Resist and ask Keith Ellison to weigh in on this.

TestTube said...

Whatabout? WHATABOUT?

Whatabout the news about "Wacky" Jacky Rosen, Democrat running for Senator of Nevada?

I've discussed the issue at some length in previous threads -- most notably
Here
and
Here

But THIS is the issue we need to deal with! America is getting Wackier and Wackier by the day! Do we need more Wackiness? Is it too late?

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

Vance said...

Booker should resign. Who cares that he admitted it? The calls for Kavanaugh to resign are based on the "he did it!". They are not based on his denial of it happening. If he was out there saying, 'Yep, it happened, my bad, I regret it!" does anyone imagine that Feinstein and Booker and Harris and the rest would be all ok with him going to the Supreme Court?

Of course not. The mere accusation alone, regardless of whether the accused accepts it, is enough to disqualify Kavanaugh--ask any leftist. Thus, it should be enough to make Booker resign even though he admitted it.

AllenS said...

Sounds like a made up story, like his made up friend "T-Bone". Remember, Cory is one of the best of the best democrats.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Booker admits to the groping in writing. It's his admission.

Doesn't this disqualify him from lording over us?

Angle-Dyne, Samurai Buzzard said...

AA: Yes, tell us what this is about. You call out "whatboutism" — AKA whataboutism— but I'm going to call out your "what-it's-about-ism." You don't get to restrict the subject to exactly the scope you like. When you do that, it's "what-it's-about-ism" (my coinage).

Precisely.

The entire political debate vocabulary of the contemporary left has been reduced to a collection of synonyms for "shut up".

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Kavanaugh is being accused of something 30+ years ago with unverifiable accusations.
Of course, to leftists like Cilizza, the accusation is much worse than anything Booker actually admitted.

Because D.

Vance said...

Same goes for Menedez: the accusation is all the proof needed. We don't need no stinking witch trial, even. Those primitives who participated in the Salem witch trials--they actually held a trial for the accused! No progressive would ever allow that--you might get an innocent verdict, and we can't risk it! What was the line from the Red Queen, I think? "Sentence first, trial later?" Today's progressive approach to justice. Identical to Stalin's approach, actually.

Nonapod said...

an incident on New Year's Eve 1984 (when he was 15) in which he groped a female friend's breast after the two of them had kissed.
"With the 'Top Gun' slogan ringing in my head


Top Gun came out in 1986. This whole story is an anti-strawman.

Etienne said...

Why do people write about this stuff? Are they trying to expound on their new sensitivities.

The thing is, they were minors. Minors aren't held to an adult standard.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Shorter Cillizza(D): Cory is cool. Cory's admission is simply... er, inconvenient. Kavanaugh needs a conversation - because 30+ year old unverifiable accusations are VERY SERIOUS!

Bob said...

Tim Maguire,

I agree with most of your comment. But let's go a step further, "for the sake of argument".

If Kavanaugh didn't do it, he has nothing to which to face up.

And this many decades later there is no way for any of us to know. And if they both testify, and it's "he-said-she-said", it still doesn't matter whom you believe. I can't imagine a reasonable person with enough conviction about what they believe -- either way -- that reasonable doubt goes out the window.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Different standards for Soviets(D) and R's.

rhhardin said...

You get three tries at a breast when making out in HS, if the lady stays around for more kissing and massaging. Nobody knows body language anymore.

Qwinn said...

The purpose of this article is to pretend that the worst hypocrisy coming from the Democrats is ignoring what Booker did, because what he did is mild enough that he'd survive it even if it got attention. In other words, a distraction from Ellison and Clinton.

This is their hilarious attempt to pretend that they hold their own to the same set of standards, by bringing up a strawman (no conservative made Booker the case for Dem hypocrisy) and pretending that's the worst they've done. It's so fucking transparent. It'll probably work anyway.

DanTheMan said...

Black democrat from NJ is essentially a lifetime appointment. The similarity in the stories is that there is no way to prove it ever happened.

rhhardin said...

Third base is the difficult base.

EDH said...

And what's the "Top Gun" slogan?

A story of Cory Booker's struggle with his own homosexuality?

Michael K said...

The thing he has never admitted is that it was "T Bone" and not a girl.

Of course, that puts him in good with LGTB

Bob said...

Of course, what buwaya has repeatedly said is really the issue here.

It's all about politics, posturing, and power.

Laslo Spatula said...

"You're already consensually kissing. You try to touch her breast and are pushed away, and you try again and — what? — the end of the story is missing. But, holy God, if that's what ruins your life these days, the world has gone mad."

Well, if things like that happen, then people get their lives under a cruel neutral microscope and have to answer to abstractions under a presumption of guilt for all of the misdeeds of others that have come before:

"Now, since we're not going to hear of the specific time and place of the incident, Kavanaugh will need to say that he never, in that entire period, experienced alcohol-induced amnesia. (And what if he can only say I have no memory of losing my memory?!)."

Even bystanders get the treatment:

"He could be asked about his problems with alcohol-induced amnesia, his observation of Kavanaugh's drinking, and any alcohol-induced amnesia he saw in Kavanaugh, and he could be pressured to admit that he's unreliable as a witness to the nonoccurrence of any event from his heavy-drinking years."

Because -- sure, "if that's what ruins your life these days, the world has gone mad" -- but:

"When is it okay to shout "Fire!" and cause a panic? …When it's not a real fire, but a political situation, who's to say the perception of a smoldering fire is wrong?"

Sometimes the world isn't just mad, sometimes it's just playing with matches.

I am Laslo.

I am Laslo.

rhhardin said...

What's in it for the woman. She gets a boyfriend.

Larvell said...

Top Gun came out in 1986. This whole story is an anti-strawman.

Wait, are you saying that ... memories aren't trustworthy?

n.n said...

Political congruence ("=")... the other PC.

mccullough said...

Booker said the girl was drunk. Therefore, by definition, it’s inaccurate to say “the kissing was consensual.”

Drunk girls can’t consent.

Not to the kiss. Not to the grope.

Booker sexually assaulted a drunk girl. He needs to resign immediately.

tim maguire said...

Bob said...Tim Maguire,

I agree with most of your comment. But let's go a step further, "for the sake of argument".

If Kavanaugh didn't do it, he has nothing to which to face up.


Thanks for recognizing it's a hypothetical (I'm expecting one or two people not to notice that and post outraged replies). But I don't see that as a step further, I see that as a completely different scenario, one not calling for any sort of careful thinking. If he's innocent (which I think he very likely is), then he's innocent. That's that. There's nothing to work through.

rcocean said...

"The Top Gun Slogan" ?

What was that?

Here's a line from Top Gun that fits Booker:

"His fitness report says it all. Flies by the seat of his pants, totally unpredictable."

n.n said...

#WhatAboutLove #HateLovesAbortion

rcocean said...

"I feel the need for speed" ?

That's a lame line for making out.

rcocean said...

"Drunk girls can’t consent. "

What is "drunk"?

We not only need to hand out consent forms, we need breatholyzer tests.

David Begley said...

The tide is out and we now learn that Booker, Cliza and the entire MSM are naked, that is, they are now exposed as idiots and partisan hacks. Thanks, Trump.

Nonapod said...

By the way, Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer are both going to be in the Top Gun sequel in 2020.

Hollywood is totally out of ideas.

traditionalguy said...

I for one admire an honest confession of sexual aggressions from Sparticus himself. And I cannot wait for the Booker and the Hooker team to be nominated by the Dems.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

facts schmacts. CNN doens't need to get the dates correct.

It's CNN.

mccullough said...

According to Booker’s 1992 column, he said when he talked to the girl she told him “she was drunk that night” and “couldn’t remember” what happened.

So the case is closed.

Booker kissed and then groped a drunk girl.

He should resign.

DanTheMan said...

>> Hollywood is totally out of ideas

So you won’t be watching the Magnum PI remake?

Yancey Ward said...

Well, it is different- Booker "confessed" (more on that below), Kavanaugh denies it vehemently. Whataboutlism only matters if Kavanaugh had admitted to the accusation. Cillizza is at the bottom of the barrel.

Booker's confession had nothing to do with talking about becoming a man, it was designed to counter a rumor about him.

n.n said...

"I feel the need... the need for speed!" That's such a stupid sex slogan.

Wham. Bam. Thank you, ma'am. Sex hex. Love dove. Ann ran away with Meade.


We not only need to hand out consent forms, we need breatholyzer tests.

Planned Relations (PR)

rcocean said...

"By the way, Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer..."

Break out the Geritol.

Bay Area Guy said...

Cory Spartacus Booker writes: "With the 'Top Gun' slogan ringing in my head, I slowly reached for her breast," Booker wrote of that night. "After having my hand pushed away once, I reached my 'mark.'" The point of Booker's column was how that moment, and his work on the issue after, had changed him -- and his views on women, consent and assault -- forever. "It was a wake-up call," Booker wrote in his Stanford column. "I will never be the same.""

Sonovabitch! He stole my move!

reader said...

Is the three try thing an unspoken male guideline. Just prior to college I was kissing a guy. He went for my right breast and I nudged him away. A few moments later he went for the right again and I again nudged him away. Then a few moments later he goes for the left. I remember thinking something along the lines of, “that’s the problem you were going for the wrong one.”

It struck me as so weird/funny I even talked to my husband about it years later. I can tell you I do not think he should be fired from whatever job he has nor should he be cast into the fires of hell. He paid the only penalty he deserved. I ended our make out session.

Etienne said...

When I was a juvenile, we all got a "get out of jail free" card.

You only went to reform school if you were a truant.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

...— so maybe "1984" is another typo.

Booker was born in 1969. So if he was 15 at the time, then it happened in 1984. If it happened.

n.n said...

Planned Relations has a negative connotation.

Vance said...

Also: the difference between Booker and Kavanaugh is that Booker can lose a vote, right? Well, then why not hold the vote for Kavanaugh by the people who are eligible to vote for him--the Senate.

Or is that not good enough for reasons?

Bay Area Guy said...

I think we should re-institute the practice of young men feeling up girls. There are far too many nancy-boys, snowflakes, beta males, and pajama boys who are unskilled in the art of romance.

Richard Dolan said...

"I feel the need... the need for speed!" That's such a stupid sex slogan."

True enough, but it's something that most 15 year old boys haven't learned yet.

Vance said...

I thought the main complaint against teen boys is that they were too fast--not enough foreplay, etc. Now they need to be faster?

Eleanor said...

In 1992 a black man admitting to being gay would have been a political career ender. That's over 25 years ago. The rumors about him were flying fast and furiously. What better way to curtail them and to score some points with women than to apologize for being too sexually aggressive with a girl, but not to crossing a line into something he could be charged with? Did the girl even remember it happened? I don't know if Booker is gay or not, and frankly, I don't care. But since everything else he ever does is self-serving, there had to be a better reason he did this other than to clear his conscience. Doess he even have a conscience?

Yancey Ward said...

Well, I think "Top Gun" is a real thing, so it probably has a real slogan/motto, too. It is possible that Corey Booker in 1984 knew of them before the actual movie came out in 1986, but I do think the essay had in mind the "I have a need, a need for speed", so Booker is mixing, maybe, truth with fiction, if I am being generous.

Leland said...

Welp Cizzilla, you tried, but your desire to just report what Booker told you without checking any of the facts ruins your entire article. Now we are left with the notion that Booker gets aroused by odd slogans said by men acting in a homoerotic manner. That Booker's understanding of time is as bad or worse than Blasey Ford. And that Cizzilla is just a homer willing to run to press whatever Booker tells him. Your opinion is no longer needed Cizzilla. I would say "go take a seat on the bench", but I think that really needs to be said to Kavanaugh.

JPS said...

"Whataboutism":

- We Democrats sincerely care about sexual assault victims, and would never elevate to high office a man who is accused of such things.

- I seem to recall you all closing ranks around Bill Clinton. Also, do the words "waitress sandwich" mean anything to you?

- That's whataboutism! Pathetic. We're not talking about that.

Yancey Ward said...

I didn't have the courage at 15 to cop a feel- didn't get to until the night I actually lost my virginity.

Yancey Ward said...

By the way, Tom Cruise and Val Kilmer are both going to be in the Top Gun sequel in 2020.

Cruise could easily play the role of Tom Skerrit, but I have seen Kilmer, and I doubt he could fit in a cockpit without dropping some significant weight.

Yancey Ward said...

And I remember the location, the exact date, and pretty much every detail of that night, and it wasn't all that much shorter than 36 years ago- it was just short of 34 years.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

rhhardin said...

You get three tries at a breast when making out in HS...

So is that six tries total, or do you have to wait for the next date to try for the other breast?

Leland said...

By the way, Top Gun was release in 1955. So Booker and Cizzilla are off the hook. The tagline; "No man ever drew on him... and lived!" or if you prefer, "Only one man had the guts to fight back", or perhaps "Give Us All The Whiskey, Gold And Women In Town...Or We'll Burn It To The Ground!"

I'm thinking the last one was rattling around in Booker's head.

Yancey Ward said...

What you don't know about rhhardin is that he was born with 3 hands according to the women he dated.

Rory said...

It seems that Top Gun was based on a May, 1983 article that appeared in California Magazine, a publication of Cal-Berkeley.

Yancey Ward said...

Which I am sure was read by a 14 year old Corey Booker.

Hagar said...

I don't think Booker, Harris, Ocasia-Cortez, etc. are going anywhere however much they prance and call for attention.
It is amazing, but I see Bloomberg has sent up a trial balloon, joining Biden and someone else I don't remember who, but also already in his mid-seventies.

It is an odd time - Trump - as a 70 year old Independent ran as a Republican and won for lack of able competition from a younger generation of Republicans - but this is getting ridiculous.

Bay Area Guy said...

Monday Hearing, Judiciary Committee
September 24, 2018.
Sen. Kamala Harris

Senator Harris: Good morning, Judge Kavanaugh

Judge Kavanaugh: Good morning, Senator.

Senator Harris: How are you feeling this morning?

JK: Fine, thank you for asking.

SH: Let me remind you that you remain under oath, subject to penalty of perjury. Is there anything preventing you from giving your best testimony today?

JK: I don't believe so, Senator.

SH: I have one question, please answer with a "Yes" or a "No". In high school, did you touch the titties of Chistine Blasey at a party in Montgomery County, Maryland? I repeat, YES or NO?

JK: You want answers?

SH: I think I'm entitled to them.

JK: YOU WANT ANSWERS?

SH: I WANT THE TRUTH!

JK: YOU CAN'T HANDLE TRUTH! Kammy, we live in a world where women have tits, and those tits have to be felt by Georgetown Prep varsity athletes like me. Who’s gonna do it? You? You, Sen. Whitehouse? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Blasey Ford, and you curse the varsity jocks. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That feeling up drunk women at parties, while tragic, probably promotes life. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, promotes life. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at Georgetown parties, you want me on those tits, you need me on those tits. We use words like hooters, big ones, and gazongas. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent promoting Darwininian regeneration of the species. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a woman who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very sexual excitement that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you drop your bra and show us YOUR tits. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Leland said...

Sorry Bay Area Guy, but that movie came out in 1992. I know, and why I know is an interesting story. You may recall the first scene of the movie. It opens on the face of a young man and pans out to show what is intended to look like the Marine Corps Silent Drill team. It isn't. The actors were members of the Texas A&M Fish Drill Team. I know this because I was at that school at the time and knew several of them.

So that guy who is the first person on camera, he was later accused of assault by a woman, an under classman. He supposed hazed her by hitting her with an axe handle. He admitted to a routine in which he tapped each underclassman with an axe handle, but despite others claiming that it was indeed just a tap to honor the ritual; he was found guilty. He lost his military commission, but fortunately allowed to stay at school and graduate.

The woman got what she wanted. She was able to transfer to another school and keep her contract. At least she did for awhile. But within a year she made another accusation, this time of sexual assault. Her story was investigated, and she wasn't believed. She ended up being asked to leave the school.

All true story. Seriously, I know all the names, as well dates and general location, but then an investigation was held, so its easier to remember such things.

tim in vermont said...

“What it’s aboutism” That’s good.

AllenS said...

According to Wikipedia, Top Gun was released on May 16, 1986.

William Chadwick said...

"The automatic, easy, snarky answer: He's a Democrat."

The batter answer is: "That's different because shut up."

MayBee said...

Politico is reporting Dr Ford doesn't want to fly, therefore cannot testify on Monday.

tim in vermont said...

I was sitting in at a sidewalk cafe in Burlington and 4 consecutive F-16s, I guess, flew over rattling the dishes. and setting off car alarms. I said to the waitress “I guess the volleyball game is over” but I don’t think she got it. As you get older, your pop culture references get stale, I guess.

MayBee said...

I want to know what Cory Booker does now to make a move on a woman.
Does he ask permission at each step? Or does he allow himself one grope attempt? Is one unwanted grope better than two unwanted gropes? I must know!

MayBee said...

Do we really want to live in a world where young men self-flagellate about trying to grope the breast of a girl he was making out with?

Michael K said...

I have seen Kilmer, and I doubt he could fit in a cockpit without dropping some significant weight.

He shows up at Tombstone Days in AZ and I think they would need a crane to get him into the cockpit, if he could fit. His career really crashed and burned.

He was good in "The Doors" and in "Tombstone."

As a typical Christian Scientist, he got into serious trouble with health and ended with some sort of tracheal surgery.

Bay Area Guy said...

I hope Dr. Blasey Ford shows up the hearing wearing the Sexy Handmaid's Costume.

Michael K said...

Blogger MayBee said...
Politico is reporting Dr Ford doesn't want to fly, therefore cannot testify on Monday.


I wouldn't be surprised if we hear more about her phobias and mental health issues.

Yancey Ward said...

"Politico is reporting Dr Ford doesn't want to fly, therefore cannot testify on Monday."

The next story will be that Ford can only travel to D.C. by slow boat via China.

Michael in ArchDen said...

Alternate Top Gun quotes that might have been inspiring the Senator...

"She's lost that loving feeling." which leads to the response "I hate when she does that!"

"Negative, Ghost Rider, the pattern is full."

"Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash."

"That's right! Ice... man. I am dangerous."

"This is what I call a target-rich environment."

"It's the bottom of the 9th, the score is tied. It's time for the big one."

and my personal favorite:
"Bullshit ten minutes! This thing will be over in two minutes! Get on it! "

Yancey Ward said...

However, I have relatives who are terrified to fly, so it is a real thing. I wonder if someone can dig up the last time Ford flew somewhere? Why am I predicting that it was sometime in the last 3 months?

tim in vermont said...

Do we really want to live in a world where young men self-flagellate about trying to grope the breast of a girl he was making out with?

Somebody wants us to live in that world, that’s for sure. The question is "will we let them cram us into it?”

tim in vermont said...

I could be wrong here, but I think that the cerebral cortex (where rational thought occurs and where consequences are understood) isn’t fully developed until one is in their twenties. This is like criticizing a 12 year old for not being able to clean and jerk twice his body weight or something.

I think it’s no accident that Democrats key on young voters, BTW, who don’t yet fully have the capacity to appreciate consequences.

MayBee said...

What Booker did as a teenager wasn't right. And he has been and will be judged by voters on them. But to turn Booker into a political missile to prove hypocrisy misses the mark. This isn't about Booker.

That's what's kind of weird. If groping a girl when she's fifteen turns you into a person who is too much of a sexual assaulter to be able to sit on the Supreme Court, why would people voting for you make it ok to have once been a sexual assaulter?
You are either irredeemable and shouldn't be able to work (as a Justice or apparently as a comedian) or you can work. The woman who was groped was groped whether the voters of New Jersey is willing to forgive you or not.
At the same time, we can't put all the power in the hands of the gropee. She doesn't care if you groped her at 15, even if it was unwelcome at the time? You can have a job. If she's unwilling to forgive, you can never work again, no matter how good you may be at your job and how exemplary your life.

And what if you didn't try to grope a girl's breast, but instead got in a fight with a straight guy? Is this forgivable or unforgivable high school behavior? What if you broke up with your high school girlfriend in an unkind way- say right after having sex? Forgiveable or unforgivable?

tim in vermont said...

Nobody wanted to admit that we need 18 year olds for soldiering, and part of what makes them good for that makes them bad as voters, a lack of appreciation of the consequences of decisions like going into the army during wartime. Unfortunately, all of the other countries, good and bad, have 18 year old boys too, and many of them are willing to use them, even were we not to do so. But an analysis sensitive to the capacities of young people would be that you should be 21 to either go into the military or to vote. Were we in some kind of perfect world, of course.

MayBee said...

Yancey Ward said...
However, I have relatives who are terrified to fly, so it is a real thing.


I think if she is terrified to fly, we should factor that in to how traumatized she says she is by this event, even 35 years later. It seems to me she is a bit....easily traumatized? Maybe something else is going on there.

Leland said...

The California Zephyr and Capitol Limited would get her there by Monday. She just needed to board the train by the deadline given, so once again, these times are not just arbitrary.

Not Sure said...

Booker's defense is pretty straightforward:

A man's allowed to stroke his beard every now and then, izzinee?

MayBee said...

tim in vermont said...
Nobody wanted to admit that we need 18 year olds for soldierin


It's why I can't really agree "the system" is about subjugating women. Until women have been drafted for 100 years, I don' think we will be quite even. Even though women haven't always been treated well-- we haven't been sent to the shores of a D Day.

policraticus said...

My guess is "Take My Breathe Away." by Berlin that was echoing in 15 year old Corey's brain.

robother said...

In the 60s, true second base could be pretty challenging, bras posing a variety of different and unfamiliar problems, all to be figured out blindman style while maintaining the mood. At least that's what my friend (who closely resembled me) said.

JaimeRoberto said...

I must confess. In college I kissed a girl. She reciprocated at first and then pushed me away. We were both embarrassed. I'll go resign from my job now.

Michael K said...

I wonder if someone can dig up the last time Ford flew somewhere? Why am I predicting that it was sometime in the last 3 months?

I doubt her handlers are that sloppy. There is a reason why there are no details to her accusation.

I have read that rape victims, like combat fatigue, remember details they cannot get out of their mind.

wendybar said...

Rob said...
It was Cory Booker's "I am Caligula" moment.
9/21/18, 12:11 PM


I believe THIS is the best comment on this thread!!!

tim in vermont said...

Meanwhile “Sexy Handmaid” costume gets immediately pulled because “That’s Not Funny [TM]”

I am amazed that James Bond movies are still allowed. I guess we will have a trans Bond inflicted on us soon enough.

R.J. Chatt said...

We can't know what happened with Ford and Kavanaugh and there's not enough evidence to make a decision about it. As far as Booker is concerned, he's already admitted to making up stories but whatever he did is irrelevant to this case.

As Valerie Jarrett would say, we should make this situation into a teaching moment. Whether or not Kavanaugh had anything to do with Ford's traumatic experience, children should be encouraged to talk about their problems, either to their parents or another responsible adult. Had she discussed this event, which probably lasted 10-15 minutes, with an adult she would have been spared decades of pain.

Leland said...

My guess is "Take My Breathe Away." by Berlin

That makes sense for why he was grabbing her chest. That's where the lungs are. I bet when he started digging in with the nails is when she said stop. Oh wait, I'm thinking of that Indiana Jones movie, and it was the heart not the lungs.

rcocean said...

"But an analysis sensitive to the capacities of young people would be that you should be 21 to either go into the military or to vote. Were we in some kind of perfect world, of course."

Actually, in WW 1, the draft age was 21. Of course, once they needed more men, they dropped it to 18 in Sept 1918. But even so, only 120,000 Eighteen to Twenty year olds were drafted compared to 2.6 million between 21-31.

During Civil War draft age was 20 in the North. The South drafted 18 y/o right off the bat.

Dave Begley said...

Bay Area Guy:

A pure classic! I've circulated it to some Marines.

This whole Kavanaugh debacle was good for that laugh.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It's "I feel the need... the need for speed!" That's such a stupid sex slogan.

Absolutely stupid. This is a better way to go. Slow hands

It was my understanding that Ford was wearing a swimming suit at the party under her clothes (WTF?......anyway)

I remarked to my husband that I know her rape story is bogus because I know from personal knowledge how extremely difficult it would be to even willing try tohave sex while wearing a bathing suit. That it was next to impossible to have a really good groping session in a one piece...

His response...Really? Want to dig that hole a little deeper and elaborate?

Um. Not now...maybe later :-)

Dave Begley said...

What makes Bay Area Guy's parody so good is that Kammy uses the "yes or no" form when she wants to play serious prosecutor. What a dunce.

tim in vermont said...

Had she discussed this event, which probably lasted 10-15 minutes, with an adult she would have been spared decades of pain.

You may be confusing the “presenting complaint” with deeper issues.

Xmas said...

I don't know if Booker meant "I feel the need...the need for speed" or not.

I would think the Kenny Loggin's classic "Danger Zone" was probably what was in his head. I mean, that's a 15-year-old-reaching-for-his-first-boob sort of song if there ever was one.

JAORE said...

Maybe at the time of the party BK self identified as a woman. Seventeen is the time of awakenings and peak hormones. Add in alcohol and his momentary confusion is understandable.

So the narrative should now be that Dr. Ford, due to militant homophobia, has scarred BK for life and denied him his true identity as a transgender.

Bay Area Guy said...

Thanks, Begley!

@Xmas,

I would think the Kenny Loggin's classic "Danger Zone" was probably what was in his head. I mean, that's a 15-year-old-reaching-for-his-first-boob sort of song if there ever was one.

"Danger Zone" has some serious double-entendres there!

Revvin' up your engine
Listen to her howlin' roar
Metal under tension
Beggin' you to touch and go

Highway to the Danger Zone
Ride into the Danger Zone

Headin' into twilight
Spreadin' out her wings tonight
She got you jumpin' off the deck
And shovin' into overdrive


Gee, it sounds to me like a 17-year old male with a pulsating stiffy in the back seat of car with a hot babe!


Sebastian said...

"You try to touch her breast and are pushed away, and you try again and — what? — the end of the story is missing. But, holy God, if that's what ruins your life these days, the world has gone mad."

Yes. Now take the next step. How did the world go mad? Hypothesis: a generation of feminists sanctified "women's bodies" as inviolate territory not to be sullied by governmental intrusion or male advances, while at the same time promoting a form of identity politics in which progressive interests are served by playing to women's emotions. Hence, the ruin-grope or, in the case of convenient prog self-exculpation, the abject gropapology.

gahrie said...

I guess we will have a trans Bond inflicted on us soon enough.

I believe they are making a Bond movie with a female Bond right now.

dbp said...

The release of Top Gun and that Sen Booker graduated in 1991, suggest he was 17 at the time of the copping a feel incident. I would suggest that the "1984 (when he was 15)" is a "mistake" by Chris Cillizza on purpose.

Would do nicely for Booker to be the same age as Ford. Would not do at all for him to be the same age as Kavanaugh.

tim in vermont said...

I believe they are making a Bond movie with a female Bond right now.

Don’t tell me, it’s Amy Schumer.

If they were going to go black Isa Ibrahim could be as good a Bond as Sean Connery. But somehow Sadie Hawkens Ghostbusters comes to mind when you sort of have to be a guy to tell some of those jokes. What cultural need does a female Bond fill? The original filled a need for teenage boys to watch a man who was not only a hero, but could crack any woman’s virtue with little more than a glance. In a way, the movies honored women as virtuous, in that it took superhuman powers to crack it.That is no mean feat for a man, especially in the ‘60s, but face it, just about any moderately attractive woman can do the same with just about any guy, where’s the sport?

Not to mention, the last one I watched, Bond was chasing down something called a “Cervex Agitator” I mean, come on! What’s a woman Bond going to chase down? A “Clitunia Device?"

Big Mike said...

I thought maybe the movie’s song, “Take My Breath Away,” came out earlier, and Booker was thinking of it. But, no, it also was released in 1986.

tim in vermont said...

I think “Triple X” in The Spy Who Loved Me was sort of a Russian female Bond, but the movie couldn’t hold my attention long enough to finish it.

The Godfather said...

I've enjoyed reading this thread. There have been many witty (and few half-witty) comments. But let's not forget what's at stake. Brett Kavanaugh has said that he didn't do what Prof. Ford says he did. If the Senate concludes that he lied, then his character and reputation are ruined. That's what Feinstein is willing to do to win a partisan victory.

tim in vermont said...

How are the Moneypenny scenes going to go with a female Bond? Lesbian? Naah! Make a man the receptionist, but how to you make a man drooling over a hot female co-worker funny in the #METOO era. I mean James had an iron clad harassment case against Moneypenny,

Drago said...

BAG: "Gee, it sounds to me like a 17-year old male with a pulsating stiffy in the back seat of car with a hot babe!"

Or, it literally describes an F-14 Tomcat literally at max power and literally "in tension" and literally leaping off the deck with its wings literally retracting to full swept back position.

Then again, it could be chicks....

Laslo Spatula said...

There's a somewhat interesting story about "Top Gun" and the song "Danger Zone."

Kenny Loggins did not actually write "Danger Zone" for that movie; he had originally written it for the proposed Tom Cruise movie "Power Bottom", about male beach volleyball players.

"Power Bottom" did not get made because Cruise rejected doing the extended nude scenes, and made "Top Gun" instead.

So now it was the 'danger zone' of fighter pilots, not power-bottom male beach volleyball players.

True story.

I am Laslo.

Drago said...

Laslo: ""Power Bottom" did not get made because Cruise rejected doing the extended nude scenes, and made "Top Gun" instead."

That certainly explains the compromise sauna/turkish steambath fictional scenes in Top Gun!

Newbies are still trying to find that Shang ri la shower facility at Miramar..

rcocean said...

I thought Kelly McGillis was the love interest in "Top Gun"

But i now see, it was the F-14 tomcat.

Bay Area Guy said...

@Drago,

That's why I said it was a double-entendre, jeez! Don't you remember my glorious service to the Navy during the Cold War?

Anchors aweigh, my friend! (We don't have anything as good as "Semper Fi," but that's life.)

rcocean said...

"In my foolish lover's game
On this endless ocean
Finally lovers know no shame
Turning and returning
To some secret place inside
Watching in slow motion
As you turn around and say
Take my breath away"

Suggests that Goose and Maverick were lovers during their Carrier deployment.

Bay Area Guy said...

@rcocean,

They are making a sequel to Top Gun, so maybe Maverick will pull a Caitlin Jenner to become the first transgendered fighter pilot.

William said...

Cillizza is groping for someone to illustrate his points about whataboutism. I certainly entertained whatabout thoughts, but Booker didn't occur to me. I thought what about Ellison, Bill Clinton, Tom Brokaw.......Brokaw most nearly resembles Kavanaugh. He only had one allegation against him. He denies the claim. NBC is apparently letting him keep his emirtus status. He still appears on the air. Perhaps he should.......Anyway, if Cillizza was being honest, he would try to parse and explain the other cases where the alleged sexual offense was not career ending.

Michael K said...


Blogger The Godfather said...
I've enjoyed reading this thread. There have been many witty (and few half-witty) comments. But let's not forget what's at stake. Brett Kavanaugh has said that he didn't do what Prof. Ford says he did.


I have tried to start a GoFundMe account on Facebook to buy Chrissy Ford a train ticket. I think we are up to $1.40.

Grassley is an 86 year old farmer who kicked the ass of a trial lawyer who ran against him last time because he was not a lawyer and was chair of the Judiciary Committee. What's not to like about him ?

Michael K said...

Personally, if Grassley wasn't so old, I'd be for putting him on the Supreme Court.

Too many goddam lawyers around. My daughter gets annoyed at my lawyer jokes but I still tell 'em.

DanTheMan said...

>>Blogger tim in vermont said...
I was sitting in at a sidewalk cafe in Burlington and 4 consecutive F-16s, I guess, flew over rattling the dishes. and setting off car alarms. I said to the waitress “I guess the volleyball game is over” but I don’t think she got it.

Maybe she knew Top Gun was about "Naval Aviators" and not USAF fighter pilots. The Navy doesn't fly the F-16.

William said...

On MSNBC and CNN they only mention Clarence Thomas and Kavanaugh as though these were the only significant cases of sexual harassment in living memory. You really have to skip over a lot of cases, most far more egregious than anything alleged against Thomas and Kavanaugh, to make them the premium sex offenders of our era.......It seems to me that much as Catholic priests used their privileged and trusted status as priests to further their predations, so too did liberal figures use their reputations as a cover for their assaults. My guess is that only a small fraction of John Conyers' misconduct has been reported. A lot of that misconduct happened after the Thomas' hearings, and a lot of the women who reported the misconduct claimed that they hesitated to come forward because he was such a revered figure.....Politics doesn't drive one' sex drive, one' wish to smash tennis rackets, or one's desire to play a lot of golf. Politics does play a huge part on how these stories are covered though. Cilliza is part of the problem.

DanTheMan said...

>>My daughter gets annoyed at my lawyer jokes but I still tell 'em.

Be nice, Dr. Mike. And remember it's the 99% of lawyers that give the rest a bad reputation.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

I was sexually assaulted by someone named 'Spartacus',
...but no one is coming forward.

tim in vermont said...

Maybe she knew Top Gun was about "Naval Aviators" and not USAF fighter pilots. The Navy doesn’t fly the F-16.

That would be so hot if that’s why she didn’t laugh.

Michael K said...

And remember it's the 99% of lawyers that give the rest a bad reputation.

I know. I have two in the family. My son appreciates them more than his sister.

HoneyBee said...

I've heard gossip that Corey Booker, a bachelor, wrote this article to dispel rumors buzzing around that he is a homosexual. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. It would be ironic if in fact he never groped this girl and ended up maligned for behavior he invented and inserted in a faux confession.
Given the current fatwa of the me too feminazis against men, all men, even young teenagers, will have to resort to sexbots if they wish to remain safe and if they wish to remain employed.
I am a woman but to me this has resulted in an utterly unfair transfer of power from men to women and many of the women are far from victims in all this. It is a state of war where men are not entitled to a presumption of innocence, have no right to defend themselves. I imagine Trump's next Supreme Court pick will be a woman because of the current insane pandering to female "victimhood". I long for the good old days. And men, my heart goes out to you.

tim in vermont said...

Turns out that they were a beat late scrubbing Ford’s yearbook off of the web. A copy was saved.

https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html

FullMoon said...

All this while lefty Teen Vogue gives pointers on anal sex and says a blow job is the new good night kiss.

FullMoon said...


Blogger tim in vermont said...

Turns out that they were a beat late scrubbing Ford’s yearbook off of the web. A copy was saved.

https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-high-school_19.html


Yep. That guy posted his brand new site on Althouse three days ago. Other blogs, twitter, reddit and sites linked to him the next day. Wonder if he is an AA regular?

Kevin said...

whataboutism (n.) def: a word employed by people when their hypocrisy and double standards are exposed.

The dark cloud of the War Against Women is forever hovering over Republicans but usually manages to land on Progressives and Democrats.

“Concerned” Dems aren’t concerned about past sexual assaults by Dems

Excerpts (but read the whole article):
It’s amusing, in a sickening sort of way, to hear Senate Democrats say it’s unacceptable to have on the Supreme Court someone “credibly” accused of assaulting a woman 36 years ago, when he was in high school. Who among these “outraged” Senators has complained about serving with Democratic colleagues credibly accused of, and in at least two cases admitting to, assaulting women?

Sen. Sherrod Brown’s ex-wife claimed that Brown threw her up against a wall and showed “physical violence and abusive nature.” This allegation is contained in court documents.

It must also be mighty difficult for Kavanaugh’s Senate critics to serve with Sen. Tom Carper. He admits he gave his ex-wife a black eye.

Sen. Cory Booker has admitted groping a friend when he was in high school. He made the admission in a characteristically pompous column in the Stanford school newspaper.

And what about Sen. Mazie Hirono? From her perch on the Senate Judiciary Committee, she asks every male judicial nominee whether he has ever sexually harassed or assaulted anyone.

Yet, according to the Washington Free Beacon, Hirono’s Senate campaign accepted $1,000 from Sen. Carper’s First State PAC in June of this year.

Finally, let’s not forget the case of Keith Ellison. He stands very credibly accused of assaulting two women as an adult. Contemporaneous police records back up at least one of the assault claims.

Yet, Ellison remains Deputy Chair of the Democratic National Committee.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

I fear for the continuation of the species. It is and always has been the norm in human nature for the male to be aggressive. It does not mean that he must be violent or transgressive. He shows he is interested, and the female signals assent or dissent. It's that simple. #MeToo says males may never under any circumstances initiate sexual contact, or else they are guilty of rape. Every last particle of sexual power must be invested in the female. Under these rules sexual intercourse will almost never happen, and the race will go extinct.

Roger Sweeny said...

Anyone who has watched "Archer" knows it has to be "Danger Zone."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyAn3fSs8_A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRU3I_o1vLc

David Blaska said...

A pre-emptive move by a politician to inoculate himself against the inevitable #MeToo-ism coming his way like tumbrels in the French Revolution.

Brian McKim and/or Traci Skene said...

One major party wants us to elect to POTUS a guy who confuses "slogan" with "theme song." Yeesh. Sounds like a mistake my grandmother would make. (Drunk people more likely have songs in their heads than words or phrases. Party hosts program the evening with loud music-- and not spoken word recordings-- for a reason.)

Char Char Binks said...

T-Bone told Booker that Top Gun came out in 1984.