On Inauguration Day, I am in Seattle. Late in the afternoon, my old friend Lyn sends me a photo of an anti-Trump sticker someone found in Japan. It’s cleverly designed: three peaks that on second glance turn out to be Trump sandwiched between two Klansmen. I want to write back and say, Ha, but instead, as a joke, I respond, “Dear Lyn, I’m sorry you’re so opposed to change, or too small-minded to move past your narrow assumptions. In the future, I’d appreciate your keeping things like this to yourself. David”Of course, Sedaris is completely anti-Trump, and he doesn't deserve to be excluded by those who are doing this kind of excluding. But he's taking on the position of a person who is rendered a nonperson because he's a Trump supporter. I don't know if his story is true, because "Lyn" must have known him enough to know he's capable of deadpan humor and because how could anyone not want to maintain a direct line to David Sedaris? But whether it's true or made up, he chose in the end to highlight the problem of interpersonal alienation, and I think it's important when even those who hate Trump can see how much of a problem that is.
A minute later, I send a follow-up email that says, “Just kidding.” And it bounces back, as do the next three emails I send. She’s blocked me! I realize. After thirty-eight years of friendship!
I go to bed that night and lie awake, worried that she’s telling everyone I’m a Trump supporter. The news will spread and by morning I’ll be ruined. But it was just a joke, I say to myself in the dark room. A horrible, horrible joke.
I know people in Madison who would say some things about Trump that are not entirely hostile but they feel that they can't, because they'd become pariahs. They'd lose all their friends. So, they go along and do the censorship they think their life depends on.
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326 comments:
1 – 200 of 326 Newer› Newest»Indirect way to acknowledge the bubble. These people were so happy when Obama was president. Now they are so miserable. And nothing has changed for them. It doesn’t matter who is president to them really. They lead such privileged lives.
You're lucky your neighbors don't dive into the comments.
Lyn dislikes people who don't like Japan.
Has Sedaris excluded any real or suspected Trump supporters?
Trump sandwiched between two Yakuza .
"because how could anyone not want to maintain a direct line to David Sedaris?"
I'd say 330 million Americans could pass on that. Count me as number one.
He's not funny. A tiresome liberal whiner.
I’m sorry you’re so opposed to change, or too small-minded to move past your narrow assumptions. In the future, I’d appreciate your keeping things like this to yourself.
If someone wrote that to me my first response might be to alienate them interpersonally too. I don't know. It's the problem of conveying tone. Text doesn't translate sarcasm too well.
I take the ass in horse's ass as referring to the animal, not the anatomical part, anyway.
Quadruped hierarchy.
They'd lose all their friends.
Those are "friends" worth losing.
I know people in Madison who would say some things about Trump that are not entirely hostile but they feel that they can't, because they'd become pariahs. They'd lose all their friends. So, they go along and do the censorship they think their life depends on.
I just love these statements. Ann "knows people who . . ."
Sounds like bullshit to me. I thought Ann was a pariah who nobody (except Meade) in Madison will talk to. But she is apparently popular enough that "people in Madison" confide in her that they would say something "not entirely hostile" about Trump because they are afraid of becoming pariahs.
She should found the Pariah Club of Madison. They can all get together (in secret at someone's home with the curtains drawn) and bitch about how mean the liberals in Madison are.
"how could anyone not want to maintain a direct line to David Sedaris?"
Apparently most people. Me included. Literally I only see his work on your blog.
I am moderately well read and have a wide circle of non-fellow-traveler friends who constantly throw out reading suggestions (4321 by Aster, Last Wild Man of Borneo, etc) none of which have ever been Sedaris.
-XC
[...] the censorship they think their life depends on.
It literally does.
Trumpsterics think social media is the real world, is the real battleground. But it isn’t, which explains their continued bafflement.
The Wikipedia article about Czech novelist Milan Kundera's novel The Joke summarizes the plot as follows:
--------------
.... Written in 1965 Prague and first published in Czechoslovakia in 1967, the novel opens with Ludvik Jahn looking back on the joke that changed his life in the early 1950s. Ludvik was a dashing, witty, and popular student who supported the Party. Like most of his friends, he was an enthusiastic supporter of the still-fresh Communist regime in post-World War II Czechoslovakia.
In a playful mood, he writes a postcard to a girl in his class during their summer break. Since Ludvik believes she is too serious, he writes on the postcard, "Optimism is the opium of mankind! A healthy spirit stinks of stupidity! Long live Trotsky!"
His colleagues and fellow young-party leaders did not see the humour in the sentiment expressed in the postcard. Ludvik finds himself expelled from the party and college and drafted to a part of the Czech military where alleged subversives form work brigades and spend the next few years working in mines.
Despite the interruption in his career, Ludvik has become a successful scientist. However, his treatment at the hands of his former friends has left him bitter and angry.
An opportunity arises when he meets Helena, who is married to Pavel Zemanek, the friend who led the efforts to purge Ludvik from the party. Ludvik decides to seduce Helena as a means of exacting his revenge. In essence this is the second "joke" of the novel.
Although the seduction is successful, things do not quite play out the way Ludvik expects (as was the case with his first joke), and he is left once more to sit and think bitter thoughts. Ultimately he decides that these sorts of jokes and their repercussions are not the fault of the humans who set them in motion, but are really just a matter of historic inevitability. Ultimately, then, one cannot blame forces that cannot be changed or altered.
"I'd say 330 million Americans could pass on that. Count me as number one."
You can't maintain what you do not have.
You have to first get into the set of people who have a direct line to DS. If you were one of those people, I say you'd want to continue to be in that set.
I don't know who he is either but the name rungs a bell as a singer , somehow.
I don't listen to NPR. Maybe that's it.
"I just love these statements. Ann "knows people who . . ." Sounds like bullshit to me. I thought Ann was a pariah who nobody (except Meade) in Madison will talk to. But she is apparently popular enough that "people in Madison" confide in her that they would say something "not entirely hostile" about Trump because they are afraid of becoming pariahs."
Maybe the bullshit is your own assumptions. Try shaking up your head and figuring out the conundrum. One guess is that I'm just lying. I've been writing here for 14 years, so there's a big archive that anyone can use to form an opinion about whether I am an honest person.
Freder says:
"She should found the Pariah Club of Madison. They can all get together (in secret at someone's home with the curtains drawn) and bitch about how mean the liberals in Madison are."
10,000+ posts on this very site. No curtains to be found.
Wow, Freder, do you really not see the illogic in this:
"But she is apparently popular enough that "people in Madison" confide in her that they would say something "not entirely hostile" about Trump because they are afraid of becoming pariahs."
In what way is this hard to believe? Because such people would find in Althouse someone who is exactly like themselves.
Ann:
Excellent lawyer-like answer. I stand corrected. I must be slipping.
But I still don't like that guy. I used to hear him on NPR and found him unfunny and creepy.
Althouse remains number one in her class and number one in our hearts and minds.
ROBIN GIBB YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!!
This situation applies in mose substantial form in corporate leadership and similar positions. You cannot challenge the politico-cultural hegemony in any way, even through reasoned argument, forget jokes. It is a Brendan Eich situation across the top levels of the entire US economy.
That was pretty funny, if you like absurdities. Makes me think of pinball.
In 1996, in line at the grocery store in lower Manhattan, I’d look at the people in front of me thinking Bill Clinton voter, Bill Clinton voter, convicted felon, Bill Clinton voter, foreign tourist, felon, felon, Bill Clinton voter, felon.
He left out the illegal aliens.
I hope it's true. There are no jokes anymore.
Maybe you should add the "Death Of Comedy" tag.
Or create a tag called "That's Not Funny".
Speaking of toxic people, the following link shows a collection of Sarah Jeong's tweets mocking White people. The number of such tweets is about 800 (eight hundred).
https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=36921
The left's actions on tolerance speak so loudly I can't hear what they are saying.
I have often wondered what Ms. Althouse's work life would have been like if she had retired in May of 2018 instead of December 2016.
One guess is that I'm just lying. I've been writing here for 14 years, so there's a big archive that anyone can use to form an opinion about whether I am an honest person.
There is a difference between bullshit and lying. I don't think you are lying at all. You just believe things that confirm your world view, whether or not you have the evidence to back them up or not.
Having already recounted instances of loss of some friends because of my support of Trump I have noticed something interesting about the distribution. Liberal female friends who are still my friends are those capable of objectivity and not emotionally driven. It's really that simple.
I’m sorry you’re so opposed to change, or too small-minded to move past your narrow assumptions. In the future, I’d appreciate your keeping things like this to yourself.
I heard that in my head in David Sedaris's voice and it cracked me up. I think his friend heard a different head voice.
Freder, "I know people who..." is a statement of fact. It's either a lie or not.
"She should found the Pariah Club of Madison. They can all get together (in secret at someone's home with the curtains drawn) and bitch about how mean the liberals in Madison are."
I actually like the idea of a Pariah Club (like the Salon Des Refusés), but your picture of us just bitching about how mean the liberals in Madison are shows a lack of imagination and understanding of how funny and interesting our conversation would be. You're doing what Hillary did, picturing a basket of deplorables.
But you're missing the energy of counterculture, which is an important, invigorating part of America. This is especially so when the main culture is very repressed and censorious, and if you won't begin to try to understand that, then you know something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Frederson?
I'm not convinced that Madison, Wisconsin even exists. I never heard anything about Madison Wisconsin until I started reading this blog. And now I've read people who say this blog is complete invention, The Truman Show crossed with Capricorn One.
The whole state of Wisconsin is kind of implausible. Little House in the Big Woods, and then a football team that won the first Superbowl, but the game footage was all bits and pieces of random football plays, remastered to look like a real game.
Of course, I don't know anyone like that. I wouldn't think of 'cutting off' anyone due to politics, and the liberal/leftists I know are fairly tolerant.
But then I don't run in elite circles.
Since true humor includes at least some piece(s) of truth and since she reacted exactly as his "joke" described her, she appears to lack a sense of humor. Of course, a sense of humor requires some humility--"what if we are the bad guys?". Is surviving by staying in a "bubble" really surviving? A hard way to live.
Can you imagine running a restaurant & then not only kicking out a Presidential underling you don't like - but *then* following them to another restaurant and shouting abuse at them?
But look at what Leftists are capable of. CF: Stalin, Killing fields, Mao, Castro, etc.
Freder, "I know people who..." is a statement of fact. It's either a lie or not.
If it is two or more people, it is not a lie. But drawing general conclusions from what two, or even ten, people (out of a population of nearly a quarter million) tell you, is bullshit.
You'd really have to be a dumbo, to have a left-wing friend send you that, and take it seriously.
David S. needs a new, smarter friend.
"I'm not convinced that Madison, Wisconsin even exists."
I used to live there, and I'm still not convinced.
You're doing what Hillary did, picturing a basket of deplorables.
I'm not picturing a basket of deplorables. I am picturing a basket of privileged elites whining about imaginary slights and oppression.
I know people in Madison who would say some things about Trump that are not entirely hostile but they feel that they can't, because they'd become pariahs. They'd lose all their friends. So, they go along and do the censorship they think their life depends on.
That would be especially true within the university's administration and faculty.
I've found that losing friends because of my support for Trump is a good thing. Ever notice how intolerant liberals really are?
Unless he's using the term email in a general sense (meaning twitter, FB, SMS etc.), I'm skeptical. Email doesn't usually work that way.
I've been a Republican since 2004. I've lost (almost) all my friends, on both sides. The Republicans had an autopsy on race and blamed blacks for their failures. The Democrats misled blacks and are wrong on everything else. Fuck 'em. I no longer care much, now that I understand why - Americans are intolerant of reality. I don't need that in my life.
"Free at last, free at last,..."
http://thecrackemcee.tk
David Sedaris's father was right.
It was a well-set two-step trap all along.
The basic Christian teaching was (a) be holy personally, and (b) forgive others of their sins, faults, and mistakes.
The destruction was in two steps:
Step 1 - Assert that social norms and social pressure to be holy personally, are oppressive and restrain personal freedom. Get rid of that, but keep the principal of forgiveness. Let others do what they want, and be tolerant of them in their differences, especially the differences of how they choose to live.
Step 2 - Give rid of forgiveness and forgetting of others' sins, faults, and mistakes. Never let them forget or let it be forgotten, that they violated the new norms of society. Hound them out of their relationships, jobs, and communities. Make them social lepers. Show them no mercy, and do the same for those who do show mercy.
This seems to be where we are.
I think I prefer the approach of having moderate amounts of social pressure on how one acts personally, coupled with loads of mercy and forgiveness if others don't; rather than an 'anything goes" allowance and signal regarding personal behavior, coupled with ravenous wolves of vengeance and retribution if others don't follow some norm that blows in the wind day to day.
This Trump hatred can really dampen interpersonal communications.
Yesterday I was in a Walmart and the nice old black lady next to me at the wall of paper towels dropped a mention that she was a submariner for some time in the Navy. As a woman her age I thought that was pretty unique for the time she probably served and struck up a conversation with her. It was a delightful talk, the kind of conversation you can only have with a real person who lived a real interesting life. She was finished with her service just a few days before 9/11 happened, and they called her back to serve on the USS Comfort hospital ship as it traveled to New York to assist in the aftermath of the attack. She talked of the fact that she can still recall the scent of burning building and flesh. It was quite touching to hear about her personal experience.
And them it came. "I don't know how people can support this terrible president." Then on and on about how she is glad he isn't her commander in chief, and how she knows so many still in the military who feel he is going to start World War III. I just nodded along and shrugged. In the end we parted ways more quickly once that line of talk came up and I don't think I'll think much of her again. Such a fascinating woman with great stories to tell, yet even in an interaction with a stranger she had to make it all about politics in the end. I wish her well, and hope she can enjoy all of the freedoms she fought and served to give us all.
"Of course, Sedaris is completely anti-Trump, and he doesn't deserve to be excluded by those who are doing this kind of excluding." Well, I think he deserves it. He doesn't seem to qualify for it. But you'd be surprised who turns out to qualify.
I love David Sedaris and lots of other artists and writers who probably detest DT with every fiber of their being. Many of my best friends and to a significant degree my wife and other female relatives share the disgust. I think DT is an asshole and he has disappointed me a lot: I thought he would change his demeanor and attitude once elected, and actually become popular. But, aside from saying incredibly awful and stupid things I agree with most of what his administration has done, credit him with the economic boom and ultimately glad that he rather than HC won. But much easier to be silent than to try to debate DT true-haters; once they realize you do not thoroughly detest DT they write you off as some ignorant fanatic.
"blamed blacks for their failures"
Don't talk about the black family or you might end up like Bill Cosby. That'll each him !
Crack Emcee! Wow - haven't seen you around. Welcome back; I missed you.
"The Republicans had an autopsy on race and blamed blacks for their failures. The Democrats misled blacks and are wrong on everything else." Sounds right. I've been following Scott Adam's blog and he's been talking about how BLM and Trump Republicans each believe that the other one is mostly racists. Hawk Newsome was on and basically agreed. And Adams' fans agree: that is, they are a bunch of Trump Republicans who are offended enough by being called racists that they are willing to lose rather than work with BLM, even in the small way of being willing to say "I am not a racist and don't agree with racism."
And only Scott Adams can save us... At least he's friends with Hawk Newsome on one side and Donald Trump on the other.
I am picturing a basket of privileged elites whining about imaginary slights and oppression.
Nice description of Trump haters, Field Marshall.
I know people in Madison who would say some things about Trump that are not entirely hostile but they feel that they can't, because they'd become pariahs. They'd lose all their friends. So, they go along and do the censorship they think their life depends on.
If these people constitute a significant portion of Althouse's acquaintances, I feel sorry for her. As far as I am concerned if you don't stand up for what you believe in, then you are kind of pathetic.
Don't talk about the black family or you might end up like Bill Cosby.
So now Michael K is defending a rapist who used his fame and power to get away with rape for years.
You are a true prince.
Oh those poor benighted Trump supporting people in Madison. It must be hell living there among the natural beauty, great dining and lovely homes. Maybe Madison is such a lovely city because all those intolerant liberals made it so. There are other lovely cities in which a Trump supporter can feel free to express their Trump love aloud, I suppose. Maybe in Texas ( not Austin), Kansas, Oklahoma, maybe the grand beauty of Montana, Idaho?
Freder,
Yes, you have put the finger on the button regarding corporate management.
It is suffused with cowardice. It is a system of cowardice, as is any bureaucracy.
The problem is that the system has evolved such that true disruptors (brave people by definition) are suppressed. They cant get financed for one thing, unlike in the 80s-90s.
It is just so.
Sedaris is droll. I hate droll.
There is an ancient tradeoff between success and comfort. Especially in a bureaucratic system, which is what a place like Madison lives off. This is a city of functionaries, of mandarins.
Not a new observation.
Freder, you are a sick creature.
Argumentum ad hominem is always cheating.
In this age of irrationality and passion , hate takes center stage instead of policy differences. In the past in politics you use to "oppose your opponents platform " . We truly live in the nietzscheism age.
MikeR,
Thank you. (Wow. That feels good.) Scott Adams said Trump would win, and I've always said The Macho Response was what was needed to fix the problems we had, so I've followed him pretty closely - and we were right.
That felt good, too.
“I've been a Republican since 2004. I've lost (almost) all my friends, on both sides.”
You are always welcome here.
Inga forgot the liberal paradise of Detroit. And Saint Louis.
It is not blindingly obvious which side is on the side of what is beautiful, fair, and just. That would be too easy.
“This is especially so when the main culture is very repressed and censorious, and if you won't begin to try to understand that, then you know something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Frederson?”
The main culture of Madison is hardly repressed and it only feels censorious to those who don’t like hearing others expressing themselves in response. Everyone gets to speak in Madison, but some don’t like hearing what their speech prompts. Why should Madisonians censor themselves to make Trump supporters feel more welcome? If these people are your friends I’d say, yes, maybe it’s better to just nod and smile, or mildly rebut, but why should strangers not speak freely in response to Trump love spoken aloud? Everyone gets to express themselves.
Welcome back Crack Emcee, you have been sorely missed!
Keep Madison Mediocre, right Inga?
I find his "humor" dead, not "dead-pan".
The Ohio-class guided missile submarine Florida is the second sub in the Navy fleet to incorporate integrated male-female crews, according to The Jacksonville Florida Union-Times.
The Florida, of Kings Bay Naval Submarine Base, follows the Michigan from Bangor, Washington, which welcomed enlisted women to its crews in 2016. This followed a deliberate integration process that began in 2011 with the addition of female officers. Since then, women have been breaking into the traditionally all-male submarine force.
The step-by-step integration process has contributed to the success of the operation, said Capt. Gregory Kercher, who leads one of the Ohio-class guided missile submarine’s two crews, which have about 30 total women in their ranks.
From Wiki--
On 29 April 2010, the Department of the Navy announced authorization of a policy change allowing women to begin serving on board navy submarines.[20][21] The new policy and plan was set to begin with the integration of female Officers. A group of up to 24 female Officers (three Officers on each of eight different crews)[21] were scheduled to enter the standard nuclear submarine training pipeline in July 2010[22] – and expected to report to submarine duty by late 2011 or early 2012.[21] Integration of Enlisted females into submarine crews was expected to begin soon thereafter.[22][23] Initial candidates for female Submarine Officer positions were highly qualified selects from accession sources that include the Naval Academy, Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps, STA-21 program and Officer Candidate School, with transfers possible for those from other Unrestricted Line Officer communities.[22] A group of up to eight female Supply Corps Officers was also expected to complete requisite training and begin submarine service in the same time frame.[21][22]
It's easy to avoid taking about politics with friends or family. I have friends who vote for both major parties. I do not talk politics with friends or acquaintances.
Many people do not think or talk about politics all the time, nor do they choose their friends based on their latest vote for one person. This blog is more focused on politics then the majority of people.
People talk a lot about sports, or kids, or grandkids, or movies, or stuff they do everyday -- normal life things. Gardening, house repairs, local festivals, church, movies, planning a birthday for kids, travelling with grandkids to YMCA of the Rockies.
Last Sunday afternoon family and friends met at a pool. Kids ran around. People played tennis and basketball and volleyball in the pool. We ate dinner and potato salad.
There was 1 point someone brought up anything political. It was about a fundraiser for back-to-school supplies. One club did not want to support low-income kids who had gender issues. The other clubs said the fundraiser was not the place for politics. Brother-in-law talked about the conflict caused by this one club, and how he had get politics out of the charity event.
Other then that, nobody talked about politics at all. why would we? Most people don't want to talk politics during a fun friend & family gathering.
Trump transforms a lot of stuff into "hot buttons" that are not normally "danger points" to avoid in light convo. Sports stuff. Makes it harder to avoid politics in daily life. I do not like his politicization of sports. Makes a fun point of life something we must avoid in fun conversation.
If you find yourself talking politics with people, maybe consider ways to talk about other subjects?
But, then again, this blog is really into politics. Maybe it's a huge interest, and you want to talk about it with people.
Well Inga, the way Althouse and Meade were treated during the protests was, I guess, "everyone getting to speak in Madison."
She should found the Pariah Club of Madison. They can all get together (in secret at someone's home with the curtains drawn) and bitch about how mean the liberals in Madison are.
Right. Put aTrump bumper sticker on your wife's car as a social experiment.
Let us know what happens.
Bill Cosby made enemies of the neo-liberals long before his current problems. Cosby spoke in favor of a kind of social separatism. He wanted to live somewhere where the guy who owned the local hardware store, the cops, the bankers, everyone was Black. His reasoning was that if you have a mixed society where 10 percent are Black and 90% are not Black, the Black population is always going to work to appease that 90%, and it shouldn't be that way.
An interesting idea, very much at odds with modern liberalism.
I am picturing a basket of privileged elites whining about imaginary slights and oppression.
Perfect description of today’s progs and their microaggressions.
@crackEmcee I saw the post on your new website. Had to get around my filters to get to it: what in heck is .tk? Tokelau.
Anyhow, I'll listen to the podcast once I'm not at work.
Field Marshall Freder: "So now Michael K is defending a rapist who used his fame and power to get away with rape for years. "
Michael K, STOP DEFENDING BILL CLINTON!!!!
That's Hillary's job anyway.
So now Michael K is defending a rapist who used his fame and power to get away with rape for years.
You are a true prince.
Dullards often ignore events that suggest cause and effect. Cosby was part of the Hollywood scene where the casting couch was an essential piece of furniture for 100 years. Young actresses threw themselves at major stars.
I don't deny that Cosby was probably going to far with the Quaalude party scene. You apparently, like so much else in the world, are unfamiliar with the widespread use of Quaaludes by both parties in sexual escapades in the 70s.
He may well have forced himself on women, especially the lesbian coach who was one of the complainers.
It is difficult to avoid noticing that his mention of the black family was followed fairly soon by the attacks, which predated the whole "MeToo" thing.
But dullards tend to miss things.
“Keep Madison Mediocre, right Inga?”
Actually no. Madison is a city that has been on those lists of best places to live in the US for years now. You’d be lucky to live there and if Althouse feels so stifled in Madison and it’s affecting her happiness quotient, maybe it’s time for her to leave or stop complaining.
I know people in Madison who would say some things about Trump that are not entirely hostile but they feel that they can't, because they'd become pariahs. They'd lose all their friends. So, they go along and do the censorship they think their life depends on.
I wonder -- Are people who talk about politics more likely to get uninvited from parties?
Or are people more like to talk about politics with Trump stuff - sports tweets? And people at parties don't like that sort of thing?
I don't imagine that people who argue politics are popular at parties. It's not fun, the kids are bored, adults get uncomfortable. People want to relax on the weekend, not get into it over politics.
Trump transforms a lot of stuff into "hot buttons" that are not normally "danger points" to avoid in light convo.
Yes. How dare he defeat Hillary who had the election fixed, just like the primary,
“Well Inga, the way Althouse and Meade were treated during the protests was, I guess, "everyone getting to speak in Madison."
They were treated well on the whole. Agressively putting your camera in someone’s face might be aggravating a tricky situation. With the hundreds of thousands of people at the protests, they were mostly peaceful. Good for us Wisconsinites, I’m proud to be one.
Blogger Freder Frederson said...
(Quoting Althouse)"I know people in Madison who would say some things about Trump that are not entirely hostile but they feel that they can't, because they'd become pariahs. They'd lose all their friends. So, they go along and do the censorship they think their life depends on."
"If these people constitute a significant portion of Althouse's acquaintances, I feel sorry for her. As far as I am concerned if you don't stand up for what you believe in, then you are kind of pathetic."
Nonsense. I lived and worked in Madison for over 20 years and have many professional relationships and friendships with people there. Most of them are of a different mind than I am, politically speaking, and though they know where I stand on certain issues, they also know I value the connections I have with them more than their politics or my own. That said, we are in different times now - the personal really has been made to be political - but I'm not willing to stir up the outrage machine if it means losing the opportunity to interact with them on things that have nothing to do with politics.
I love reading and listening to Sedaris. It's almost perverse what he shares and how I lap it up. His father and his younger brother, "The Rooster", are admirable. David certainly has mental health issues. Why do I enjoy him while I boycott Springsteen and other performers who are not only devout liberals but also engage in Trump and conservative bashing? Because David admits that he does crazy, perverse and downright icky stuff (just read his work) and I figure his political leanings are included in that craziness. He often does things just for shock value. His take on gay marriage is interesting -- he won't get married to his boyfriend but wanted the right to. I admire that. He makes me laugh out loud. When he reads his work, it is a performance. As to the veracity of his story, he has stated on Fresh Air (I believe, you know that NPR show hosted by the worst interviewer in radio history, Terry Gross) that _anything_ he writes for the New Yorker is relentlessly fact checked. Make of that what you will.
Has anyone actually seen any bumper sticker pro or anti Abe in the US?
I think it’s just nuts or is an anti trump bumper sticker in other parts of the world more like Free Tibet stickers here?
The lefties seem especially agitated today. Not having one of their pals shoot up a republican baseball practice every 30 days or so seems to put them into a funk.
Well, that and the fact that Trump just lowered the sanctions boom on Obama's and Putin's ally Iran today.
What time does the Madison Rally in Support of the Iranian Islamic Extremist Leaders Against Trump begin today?
I want to get there early, when the churros are freshest..
Back to the topic at hand.
"A minute later, I send a follow-up email that says, “Just kidding.” And it bounces back, as do the next three emails I send. She’s blocked me! I realize. After thirty-eight years of friendship!"
You could call it "interpersonal alienation." You could also call it the the usual prog thing. As Sedaris may or may not have realized, prog friendship is conditional on having the right politics. Of course, if you don't have the right politics, by being "right wing," you can still maintain friendship with otherwise nice progs, as long as you maneuver very, very cautiously, sidestepping politics entirely. They are easily triggered, as Sedaris wrote.
"Of course, Sedaris is completely anti-Trump, and he doesn't deserve to be excluded by those who are doing this kind of excluding."
I suspect you didn't mean this, but it could be read as saying that others do deserve to be excluded.
"But he's taking on the position of a person who is rendered a nonperson because he's a Trump supporter."
Kudos to him for showing a little more awareness than the average prog, but does any prog actually have a problem with this? Turning people into nonpersons, for the sake of creating a New Man, has been the leftist MO since 1789. Of course, the left in power doesn't stop at unfriending.
"how could anyone not want to maintain a direct line to David Sedaris?"
What, his fame and humor compensate for the doubleplusungood message he sent?
"he chose in the end to highlight the problem of interpersonal alienation, and I think it's important when even those who hate Trump can see how much of a problem that is."
OK, so one prog notices the "problem," cuz it happened to hurt him. Is there any evidence that any other prog cares? The deplorables are deplorable. They are there to be defeated.
Michael K,
You know what I'm talking about. All the sports stuff. This week it's basketball.
Most politicians stay out of stuff like sports.
He doesn't. It makes a safe topic one that is unsafe for light, friendly conversation. It turns something fun into a potential eggshell.
"how could anyone not want to maintain a direct line to David Sedaris?"
Me. I guess. I had to look him up and still don't really know (or care) who he is.
[Inga:] The main culture of Madison is hardly repressed and it only feels censorious to those who don’t like hearing others expressing themselves in response.
Just a guess, but I'd bet James Damore might find that take rather naive.
MikeR,
"what in heck is .tk? Tokelau."
I have no idea. Believe it or not, I did an interview for an Indian publication and found myself being called a "guru" by a group of young people over there. One of them is my webmaster. We're about to move to a .net I've had, for a while, unused. Once there, I will put almost my entire body of work, etc., including the new stuff I'm working on.
"I'll listen to the podcast once I'm not at work.."
It's just the first song of the series, but stay tuned: there's going to be much, much more now.
Actually no. Madison is a city that has been on those lists of best places to live in the US for years now.
Best is in the eye of the beholder.... subjective.
Many of the items that are rated or assembled to make the rating of "best" are not at all appealing to me and actually are on my list of "worst".
If people like Madison, and I'm sure that there are many persons who do and who appreciate cities 'like' Madison, that is just fine with me. Everyone has different tastes and different desires. Enjoy where you are and what you like without judging other people. (for a change)
To crow about something that is subjective as if it is reality and what is a moving target is a complete waste of time.
I'm not convinced that Madison, Wisconsin even exists
Like Finland?
Also.....welcome back Crack Emcee. Good to hear from you!
Ann said: "But you're missing the energy of counterculture, which is an important, invigorating part of America. This is especially so when the main culture is very repressed and censorious, and if you won't begin to try to understand that, then you know something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Frederson?"
A couple of points: (1) Field Marshall Frederson is fighting the previous war, where the liberals were the counterculture fighting the establishment. The liberals are now the establishment, clinging to their institutions and power while smothering dissent. They lack self awareness regarding who represents the establishment. Meanwhile, conservatives are searching for a voice and attempting to "drain the swamp". In some ways Trump has become their voice.
(2) The energy of the conservative counterculture is impossible for most liberals to see. Liberals equate energy with rallies, banners, bull horn speeches, placards and bumper stickers. Conservative energy is often manifest in coffee shop conversations, chats after church and silent contempt in the face of liberal screaming. The vocal enthusiasm at Trump rallies is a new phenomenon for the right.
Sedaris is worried about progressive collateral damage from friendly fire forced by misinformation, disinformation, and misperceptions, that has produced a refugee crisis on the left.
They were treated well on the whole. Agressively putting your camera in someone’s face might be aggravating a tricky situation. With the hundreds of thousands of people at the protests, they were mostly peaceful. Good for us Wisconsinites, I’m proud to be one.
Somebody might do research on when the phrase 'mostly peaceful' replaced 'violent' or 'peaceful'. Think I first noticed it in something related to SF bay area demonstrations. Maybe Occupy?
Another thought. If one sees themselves as part of the “counterculture” and wants to speak up, loud and proud, one needs to be brave. Complaining about the blowback that said counterculture movement may get is not in the spirit of a counterculture itself. If one wants to talk the talk, one needs to walk the walk, so to speak.
ESPN, for one, has been politicizing sports for a long time.
Trump is quite late on that scene.
It is I suppose that one sees what one wants to see. When it is done with ones aporoval it goes without notice, when it is irritating it becomes salient.
This is also one effect of living in a bubble. One does not hear the other side until it gets really loud, and then it seems novel and threatening.
The cost of speaking up is low for people with nothing to lose.
Conservatives by nature have plenty to lose, and moreover, or predominantly, obligations.
This is extremely effective.
"Agressively putting your camera in someone’s face might be aggravating a tricky situation."
Not what happened. A leftist thug decided he had the right to not be recorded in public, violating our 1A rights, and used the threat of violence to enforce it.
Inga's kind of people.
Freder sounds like the typical (think Madison) presumptive liberal that will frame his interactions and discussions such that expressing disagreement is tantamount to admitting idiocy/wrongthink.
So to avoid dealing his "bullshit", those who disagree will politely steer the conversation away from that...while he thinks all is good.
I think it is nice that Inga is posting comments on the one thing she knows something about. Her town.
Friendship is about the person, not politics. I can be (and am) a friend with people who are politically liberal but are sincere individuals.
The problem is that many liberals see everything as political. I'm happy to have a political conversation with them if they will listen to views that might disagree with theirs and not just preach. We can agree to disagree on things. But I usually find the inconsistencies in their views which make them uncomfortable and not likely to want to get to know me better.
Anyone who cannot separate the personal from the political is not friendship material in my experience.
This post really deserves a civility bullshit tag. Expecting the liberals of Madison to be more accepting and more civil in response to expressions of Trump love and appreciation is like expecting Obama haters to be more accepting of those expressing love and appreciation for Obama here on the Althouse comments sections.
Samey samey.
I don’t expect the 99% of Trumpist and conservatives here to be less hateful to my liberal counterculture expressions...anymore.
As soon as Jones start screeching about conservatives and/or Trump - the left will give him his free speech back.
As an example, look what happened when Althouse said Sarah Palin was dumb a few weeks back. Why does Althouse expect Madisonians to behave in a different fashion than her own commenters do?
My last comment on this thread, in case I get singled out (censored) again.
People who block access to social media friends for their political comments--especially people who are actual, long-time friends--are childish idiots.
Michael K: "I think it is nice that Inga is posting comments on the one thing she knows something about. Her town"
Refreshing.
Inga said...This post really deserves a civility bullshit tag
--
Yes indeed. Another fine post by the one who called Althouse a dumb bitch.
"Agressively putting your camera in someone’s face might be aggravating a tricky situation."
Hahahaha! Right, kinda like trying to have a nice restaurant dinner if you belong to the administration.
Or, currently, being a republican black woman:
"Conservative activists Charlie Kirk and Candice Owens were attacked by leftist protestors at a Philadelphia coffee shop Monday morning.
The pro-Trump Kirk and Owens are best known for organizing thousands of conservative student activists with the group Turning Point USA, which Kirk founded.
The two have become the faces of young conservatism in the country footage from this morning shared by Owens show the pair having drinks dumped on them and getting unidentified items thrown at them by angry protesters, many of whom have their faces covered. At one point in the footage, a protester can clearly be seen dumping a drink on Kirk."
http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/06/charlie-kirk-candice-owens-attacked-by-antifa/
"Candace Owens
✔
@RealCandaceO
To be clear: ANTIFA, an all-white fascist organization, just grew violent and attacked an all-black and Hispanic police force.
Because I, a BLACK woman, was eating breakfast.
Is this the civil rights era all over again?
6:24 AM - Aug 6, 2018
19.6K
15.4K people are talking about this"
Fullmoon: "Somebody might do research on when the phrase 'mostly peaceful' replaced 'violent' or 'peaceful'. Think I first noticed it in something related to SF bay area demonstrations. Maybe Occupy?"
Yes.
"mostly peaceful" is a term applied to all violent left-wing protests everywhere, everytime.
Its inverse is applied to any non-leftist protest/demonstration everywhere, everytime. Thus, Tea Party rallies and Tea Party confrontations with democrats were invariably termed violent.
Meanwhile, lefties burning down entire blocks of cities are "mostly peaceful".
James Hodgekinson's "shoot up" of a Republican baseball practice was "mostly peaceful" since he didn't specifically target a majority of republicans currently holding office.
walter: "Yes indeed. Another fine post by the one who called Althouse a dumb bitch."
In Inga's defense, history began anew this morning so why are you bringing up her colossal hypocrisy?
Inga is worried about getting censored ?
When did stupidity ever get censored here ?
Blogger Inga said...”Everyone gets to speak in Madison,”
Inga doesn’t live here, but all her Madison friends assure her they are tolerant, open-minded people.
Michael K: "Inga is worried about getting censored ?"
LOL
I know, right?
I guess Inga, for just a moment, forgot that she wasn't an average conservative on a leftist run platform!
You can't just go around eating breakfast and expect no repercussions.
Candace Owens
Verified account @RealCandaceO
3h3 hours ago
Is there a colored-only section for black police officers and black conservatives that I missed?
I certainly didn’t mean to impose on the white liberals.
On "censoring" oneself by not talking about politics in friendly gatherings.
I am not sure this is censorship, as much as polite behaviour. Was no one else taught that it is not appropriate to debate religion or politics at friendly gatherings?
Grandmothers taught us this, not because it's some abstract rule. It's a "rule" because most people will not invite you back if you go to their party and argue with others. NO one wants to get into a discussion with the guy or gal who pontificates politics or religion.
Next weekend, do you want to have fun laughing and joking while BBQ-ing some good eats? Do you want to have a friendly game of softball? Do you want to laugh and joke about sports? Do you want to talk about a fun movie?
Or do you want to be the guy known for arguing over politics?
Arguing politics guy is not the popular guy or gal at the party. They are not on top of anyone's party list of invitees.
Side note:
buwaya,
It is not the normal state of affairs for the Head of State to routinely politicize sports. It would be like the Queen of England trash talking a British soccer player.
Can anyone who was actually there fact check the following about the Madison protests in 2011?
"With the hundreds of thousands (emphasis added by Y.W.) of people at the protests, they were mostly peaceful."
Were there really hundreds of thousands of protesters in even the whole state of Wisconsin?
wwww: "It is not the normal state of affairs for the Head of State to routinely politicize sports."
Leftists have been politicizing sports for quite some time and ESPN became a sports network anti-Trump platform (with multiple commentators on multiple shows attacking Trump and his supporters directly all the while ABC was cleaning out any outspoken conservatives in the broadcast lineup).
Thus after spending 8 years as an overtly pro-obama venue.
No wwww, Trump didnt politicize sports, you and yours did because leftists politicize everything.
Your real complaint is that Trump fights back.
Get used to it. Your days of having LLR Chucks milling about quietly while they are attacked are O-VER.
You guys really dont like the new rules you created, do you?
The Crack is back! Good to hear from you Crack Emcee.
wwww said...Arguing politics guy is not the popular guy or gal at the party.
--
Calling Laslo..
I hope like hell Crack Emcee isn't back for good. He's why I left this blog for two years.
"It is not the normal state of affairs for the Head of State to routinely politicize sports."
The US is not in a "normal" state of affairs, and hasn't been for a long time.
Unfortunately the thrust of modern institutions of every sort is to force political ideas on their personnel, customers and patrons. This has been noticed.
Trump sees his role, an important part of it, as a counterweight to the overwhelming force of the hegemonic MSM and all related institutions. He has said so often.
Jack Posobiec
🇺🇸
Verified account @JackPosobiec
2h2 hours ago
Antifa attacked Candace Owens today
I haven't seen this many white Democrats kick a black woman out of a diner since the 1950s
339 replies 4,187 retweets 8,744 likes
Sorry, AA your observation is rather naive? My first reaction to, "After thirty-eight years of friendship", do these people, who are so politically vested in their "Tribe" or "Narrative", actually understand what the word "friendship" means. Or is Sedaris so clueless [maybe that's the ticket] about his membership in the "Tribe" he doesn't understand the meaning of "Liberal".
However, the real take away I have of "Liberalism" is that they continue to narrow (throw out) their constituencies. So at the end maybe there will exist a baker's dozen. Remember when "Classical Liberals" where the majority in this country. Today, the current crop [label] of Liberals barely register 1/3.
What's amusing about Sedaris is that he spent time in the barrel before when he admitted he made up stuff.
While I have a problem with writers who fictionalize their life and call it a memoir, of course a humorist (and I did find his Santaland Diaries funny) is going to tweak his stories to make them funny.
But the same people who roasted James Frey for his falsifications did the same to Sedaris. You'd think he'd learn that his people are not as nice as they think they are.
"On "censoring" oneself by not talking about politics in friendly gatherings."
This is one thing. Its a fine old rule not to discuss politics or religion in social settings.
My family may have been very different, as we were always extremely "political", but it was more or less friendly and theoretical. We had Moscow-aligned communist uncles and my paleo-fascist abuelita after all. We were the sorts to argue Orwell. I come by all this naturally. Of course the madder of the communist uncles did threaten to shoot my mother once.
The social problem is in part when politics is inserted in social settings, it is left-politics, and this is quite ubiquitous. One must nod and shut up. In larger part is when it shows up professionally, and one also nods and shuts up.
Its most important by far when one participates in politics in a purely separate sense, independent of social or professional settings, and one is retaliated against both socially and professionally. This last is the norm, and the most to be feared, as it threatens the ability of a man to meet his obligations, and thus the welfare of his family. I have heard of children suffering for the "outing" of their fathers.
Buwaya,
My first point was this: When the Head Of State talks about stuff like Sports, it's harder to keep friendly conversation away from hot button comments.
Two Big Hot Button Topics include: Politics and Religion.
Second Point: People who cannot keep friendly conversation away from Hot Button Topics are less likely to get social invitations.
My Conclusion: If you want to keep friends and receive invites to parties, do not bring up Hot Button Topics. Most people don't want to talk politics in the normal course of their life.
On the political drama: it's a choice to engage. Aside from this blog, I do not engage with it. I avoid politics or hot button topics with friends, family & acquaintances.
Arguing politics guy is not popular, but it depends much on how one argues.
Done well (laconically) it attracts women.
One is, by standing out in opposition (to whatever), a rebel.
Women like rebels.
I had to google him to see if I knew his work, and when I did, up comes an image of him wearing a denim suit jacket, a tie, oxford type shoes with no socks....and SHORTS. SHORTS, Anne, ....Shorts. That is how come you cant't have a direct line to this David guy.
"When the Head Of State talks about stuff like Sports, it's harder to keep friendly conversation away from hot button comments. "
In a time of political and social conflict its hard to maintain friendly conversations, full stop. This is not new. This is the case in every pre-revolutionary situation. This is why I highly recommend a study of the Spanish Civil War. Your problem is not that your president says this or that, but that you have a conflict.
" Scott Adams said Trump would win, and I've always said The Macho Response was what was needed to fix the problems we had, so I've followed him pretty closely - and we were right. "
Not only Scott Adams. Ben Shapiro just posted an interview with Mike Rowe of "Dirty Jobs" and Rowe (who normally shies away from discussing politics) said he knew Trump would win by August 2016. Unlike Hillary, Rowe traveled though Wisconsin and Michigan and Ohio. He knows blue collar people and, unlike the Democrats and the media, doesn't have contempt for them.
When the Head Of State talks about stuff like Sports, it's harder to keep friendly conversation away from hot button comments.
When the Head of State brags about his free throw skills, then misses 30 in a row, it's hard to keep from laughing.
IIRC Althouse did not censor Inga. Inga self-censored after having been admonished for being a repetitive pain in the ass.
Political drama unfortunately has a tendency to chase people down.
Especially intellectually interested/interesting people.
They risk becoming too interesting.
This is not new.
And hiding away will not save you. In Spain, 1936, in anonymous villages anywhere, lacking radio and only spotty supply of newspapers (mainly used to make cigarettes), their daily life was to sow and reap and annoy the sheep. But that did not keep tides of mass murder from blowing through the countryside.
buwaya said... '.....Done well (laconically) it attracts women....?" God, you have got to teach me this trick! Women I've known take forever to deliver? They like to be "wooed" endlessly. Maybe I'm going after the wrong type? Any advice?
Your real complaint is that Trump fights back.
Get used to it. Your days of having LLR Chucks milling about quietly while they are attacked are O-VER.
You guys really dont like the new rules you created, do you?
Agreed. I have leftist kids. We don't talk about Trump but about their troubles getting along in the world.
The conservative kids are doing fine.
Buwaya,
Your family sounds very interesting. One of my deceased friends had a relative from the Philippines who was a communist. My friend was not, and we mostly talked about music.
I cannot think of a family discussion about politics at the dinner table. I can recall my father and mother talking about types of fruit trees, sailboats, particle accelerators, fishing, movies, gorgonzola cheese, stuff happening in the neighbourhood, homework, books and sports but I cannot think of a discussion about formal politics. Lots of joking. I do remember conversations about the best apple trees to plant.
Wider family gatherings, I remember 1 time my father and grandfather made a brief joke when they had voted differently. That was it.
There was a step cousin, not a blood relative, who brought up hot topic religion and politic topics at a memorial service for a beloved relative. At memorial service dinner. They live far away, and are never seen.
Blogger tcrosse said...”IIRC Althouse did not censor Inga. Inga self-censored after having been admonished for being a repetitive pain in the ass.”
Thanks for the post. I had a very hard time believing Inga, but not reading every thread I couldn’t know for sure.
"Any advice?"
Be handsome.
Be rich.
Be popular.
Seem powerful.
Seem dangerous.
They throw themselves at you. I have had to woo just one woman (my wife), but had to put off plenty, and I have never been any of the above to any great degree. Just enough I guess.
Buwaya,
I disagree that one must argue politics with friends or family or acquaintances one meets in daily life.
It is a choice, like many things in life. I choose to not do so.
Blogger buwaya said...thanks, I glad you left out ladies from the professional persuasion!
"I don’t expect the 99% of Trumpist and conservatives here to be less hateful to my liberal counterculture expressions...anymore."
Mrs. Magoo actually thinks it's 1969 and the left is the counterculture. Thanks for the laugh, you abysmally stupid crone. Yeah - the culture which controls 90% of the media, Hollywood and the educational system is the counterculture.
Oh, look, brave little Inga speaking truth to power - risking it all! Why, meanies on Althouse say nasty things to her but Althouse's very own Rose Parks (in her own mind) fearlessly continues to drool her senile inanities all over the comments sections here.
Sorry, Mrs. Magoo, you'll win no brownie points from Susan Jeong. She still thinks you're a disgusting white person.
In the meantime, a black conservative woman gets chased out of a diner by Inga's allies. Owens is the counterculture, not our very own feather-brained Alley Oop.
Blogger Freder Frederson said...
One guess is that I'm just lying. I've been writing here for 14 years, so there's a big archive that anyone can use to form an opinion about whether I am an honest person.
Writing about it[archive] and acting on it don't relate to lying, especially on a blog with no consequences to your reputation. When you have to deny that you're not lying not sure if that goes over well with people. Question do you know someone who doesn't lie?
In my experience there is a difference between Republicans who supported Trump in general election and those who supported him in the primaries. I know many well enough to discuss politics with in the former category, none in the latter.
"one must argue politics with friends or family"
One should not. In these times however (granted the nature of your circles of acquaintance may differ) politics has a tendency to chase you down and corner you. It takes some skill to evade and escape.
The real problem is if you are simply identified as to politics.
Then it is much harder to evade and the cost can be high.
Another instance of live-and-let-live, non-exclusive progs in action:
"A mass of shrieking protesters confronted Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk and his colleague Candace Owens on Monday morning while they were eating breakfast at a Philadelphia hotel.
After spotting Kirk and Owens through a hotel window, the crowd entered the hotel and began harassing the young political activists.
Once they were cleared from the hotel, the protesters gathered outside and awaited Kirk and Owens’s departure, at which point one woman threw a drink on Kirk while another shouted into a megaphone about the evils of white supremacy."
I go to bed that night and lie awake, worried that she’s telling everyone I’m a Trump supporter.
That statement says everything about today's left ... as victims and totalitarian thugs.
I do not like his politicization of sports. Makes a fun point of life something we must avoid in fun conversation.
I see. So athletes can trot out their Black Lives Matter shirts at awards shows, kneel during the National Anthem, boycott White House visits but it's Trump who's politicizing sports?
Nope.
So when will the Black Culture rise up in defense of Candace and Kirk, being set upon by Whites? #WalkAway
I disagree that one must argue politics with friends or family or acquaintances one meets in daily life.
I don't argue politics with family but am frankly surprised to meet so many people who let me know they agree with me.
I have a couple of doctor friends who are Democrats and we used to have civil discussions about Trump but they were in California.
I still go back once in a while and we talk a bit but not often.
buwaya said...when politics is inserted in social settings, it is left-politics, and this is quite ubiquitous. One must nod and shut up. In larger part is when it shows up professionally, and one also nods and shuts up.
--
Well said.
Last holiday get together at my brother's place, one of his wife's adult kids (about 30)shows up in a ridiculous anti-Trump t-shirt. Nice conversation starter..I didn't bite.
Working in media, group lunches is where this presumptive bullshit inevitably pops up. Rather than engage the lead who I will have to wire for sound, I just keep chewing, checking my phone.
I agree with wwww. I have a hard time staying friends with people who always bring up politics in social situations. Obviously, I read this blog. Politics is a hobby of mine, and yet, if I'm going out with friends, it's the last thing I want to hear. We have two really good couple friends. We hang out often, at least once a month. One of the husbands is just as political as me, probably even more so. It doesn't come up on our outings. I love it. But I know other people, both on the right and on the left, who I choose not to spend time with because politics will come up. No, thank you.
But I will disagree that Trump has politicized sports. I know what Trump said about LeBron, but I can ignore it. ESPN and the other networks covering live sporting events is what I cannot ignore. Maybe they should have rethought their idea of covering the National Anthem on split screen so we could see who was kneeling and then talking about it endlessly. Maybe Bob Costas shouldn't have gone off on gun control during the halftime of a NFL game. I can completely ignore Pop and Kerr and their soundbytes after a game. I can ignore Trump's tweets. I cannot ignore the coverage of those things during a live game. Probably why I stopped watching the NFL. The kneeling is dumb, but would be a lot less dumb without the coverage by a maniacal press who is trying to reeducate the country.
Sebastian said...After spotting Kirk and Owens through a hotel window, the crowd entered the hotel and began harassing the young political activists.
--
So..they are being tracked by a group ready to protest, megaphone at the ready. Someone likely paying for this surveillance op.
Oh wait..they're all white..therefore..must be a false flag op by Turning Point!
Sneeeaaaaky!
oh and yeah, the resident lefties haven't covered themselves in glory on this thread.
" I cannot ignore the coverage of those things during a live game. "
--
It's a bit of a hostage approach.
"So when will the Black Culture rise up in defense of Candace and Kirk, being set upon by Whites?"
Probably never. Candace doesn't generate the comradery necessary for anyone to want to help her. She, Shelby Steele, Larry Elder, and a few other black conservatives, reek repulsively of a condescension no one appreciates, or needs (this can be a problem for conservatives overall, actually, as even Thomas Sowell has said). They're on their own - by choice.
To expect blacks to do so - as it's expected for black athletes to feel appreciation for a flag they have little reason to think appreciates them - is probably expecting too much.
Concerning the question of whether to talk politics, I subscribe to Fight Club rules.
Especially rules 1 and 2.
Failing that, I act insane. Like the Crazy Woman in the Valley in Jeremiah Johnson, the Indians leave me alone.
CE: "Probably never. Candace doesn't generate the comradery necessary for anyone to want to help her. She, Shelby Steele, Larry Elder, and a few other black conservatives, reek repulsively of a condescension no one appreciates, or needs (this can be a problem for conservatives overall, actually, as even Thomas Sowell has said). They're on their own - by choice"
It's not accurate nor appropriate to simply lump Shelby Steele in with the other much more overtly partisan people in your list.
Shelby Steele is much more the pure academic.
CE: "To expect blacks to do so - as it's expected for black athletes to feel appreciation for a flag they have little reason to think appreciates them - is probably expecting too much."
That is not the issue.
The issue is whether or not Trump is the one that initially "politicized sports".
He did not.
Obviously.
Pandora's box: opened.
You will all be sorry for it.
I'm amused that the mostly white crowd is chanting "Stop White Supremacy" and throwing things on a black woman who they have just forced out of a restaurant where she was peacefully eating with a friend.
And they are chanting at the police about the KKK..... to a group of mostly hispanic and black police officers.
These people (the protestors) have exactly zero self awareness.
It is like the 1950's all over again in their minds, except THEY are the ones acting like the KKK and Jim Crow supporters. Doh!
:-D
The athletes are free to take a knee (assuming their employer doesn't do to them what other employers do to conservatives).
ESPN/ABC is free to become simply another media anti-republican/anti-conservative/anti-Trump platform.
And others (including Trump) are free to criticize them as they wish.
Candace doesn't generate the comradery necessary for anyone to want to help her. She, Shelby Steele, Larry Elder, and a few other black conservatives, reek repulsively of a condescension no one appreciates, or needs
Hilarious. Democrats have not thrown this many blacks out of restaurants since 1964.
And you defend the mob.
Jim, Buwaya,
You may enjoy the politicization of sports and talking about LeBron James, or the latest political tweet/stuff, with your friends, family or acquaintances. Your family and friends must enjoy talking about politics at weekend parties.
Mine do not like to talk about politics at BBQs. We like to have fun. Talking about why the United States President dislikes LeBron James is not enjoyable for a lot of people.
It's unrealistic to expect friends or family to talk about politics. Not a good idea to bring it up.
Family and friends expect a fruitful relationship. Injecting politics may bring conflict. People are busy. The kids may be sick, the pipes may have burst, the grass needs to be mowed. People seek out a refreshing time on the weekend with relaxing, fun friends.
The last thing many want to do is argue about LeBron James and Trump. It would be better to start a political group with people who want to argue and debate politics. & leave the people alone who do not want to talk about politics with you. They can go to the pool party and BBQ with the kids.
There seems to be concerted campaign to make out that Trump just now reversed himself about tee June 2016 Trump Tower meeting but he reversed himself a few days after that misleading statement he approved that said the meeting was about Russian adoptions.
Trump praised Donald Trump Jr for releasing the email chain (which revealed the truth).
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/885081181980590084?lang=en
My son Donald did a good job last night. He was open, transparent and innocent. This is the greatest Witch Hunt in political history. Sad!
3:19 AM - 12 Jul 2017
Crack,
Good to see your comments, again. Hope you’re doing well.
Drago:
Nothing is free. Especially in this instance.
"Candace doesn't generate the comradery necessary for anyone to want to help her."
She's on her own because straying from the plantation got her ostracized.
The last thing many want to do is argue about LeBron James and Trump.
Except for Drunk Uncle.
Drunk Uncle, he don't care. Argue politics, that's all he does.
And everybody has one, amiright?
wwww seeks to lecture others on politicization of sports which wwww politicizes by falsely asserting it was Trump that started it.
In other words, another day which ends in "y".
"Candace doesn't generate the comradery necessary for anyone to want to help her"
What about Diamond and Silk?
"The issue is whether or not Trump is the one that initially "politicized sports". He did not. Obviously."
The issue is the blog post. The blog post is about politics with friends.
The post is about not being alienated from personal relationships because of politics.
I don't understand why anyone wants to talk about this stuff with friends. It's so much more enjoyable to laugh with friends and kids, play some badminton, watch the kids splash in the pool, eat some BBQ. No one wants to talk about politics.
Speaking of that - I'm gonna go make the cupcakes I'm bringing to a BBQ.
The first president to invite a sports team to the White House was the one who politicized sports in a sense.
For what it’s worth, Tiger Woods is the most prominent athlete who has been friendly with both Obama and Trump. Tiger can relate to both of them all too well.
Drago said...
“Shelby Steele is much more the pure academic.”
Agreed. Still, blacks hate his style. He seems to hate us. Maybe not overtly, but it’s there. I’d rather talk to Thomas Sowell, who just thinks we’re stupid. He can be impressed, I think.
 Drago said...
“The issue is whether or not Trump is the one that initially "politicized sports".
He did not.”
I know - I know Trump’s not a racist, too. He used to hang with P Diddy. Come on. Blacks got taken for a ride this election cycle and it’s breaking my heart to watch it.
 Michael K said...
“Hilarious. Democrats have not thrown this many blacks out of restaurants since 1964.”
It’s the only political party in the U.S. to take both sides of the slavery issue. I don’t hold out much hope for them.
mccullough said...
“Crack,
Good to see your comments, again. Hope you’re doing well.”
Thanks. You, too. I dropped everyone who made my life hard, moved to a small town where nobody knows me, and licked my wounds until better. Made a few new friends. Hoping to own a dog one day. All-in-all, so far, so good.
wwww: "The issue is the blog post. The blog post is about politics with friends."
Indeed it is.
Which makes your feeble attempt at rewriting history and the politicization of sports to accuse Trump even more inexplicable....until one remembers that you are on the left.
Then one understands.
CE: "Agreed. Still, blacks hate his style. He seems to hate us. Maybe not overtly, but it’s there."
If its not overt, and I would agree that its clearly not "overt", then perhaps you and those who think like you read into his writing things that are not there.
Which would make it easier to ostracize and ignore him without having to actually engage on any substantive points he makes, which are many.
Just another way to shut down a "brother" who walked off the plantation.
walter said...
“[Candace is] on her own because straying from the plantation got her ostracized.”
No, she stresses extreme individualism, which translates as “Don’t look to us when white folks turn on you.”
 exiledonmainstreet said...
"What about Diamond and Silk?”
Most of my black friends have no idea what to make of them. They know they’re “black” but they fuck up the narrative blacks have been handed, so they end up staring at them, stupidly, like Tucker Carlson. (He cracks me up.) I’d say, for the conservative cause, D&S are a definite plus.
Crack, I am so happy you are doing well. You came to mind many times while reading here and it is great to have your perspective back.
Hope you get a dog soon. They make getting up every morning a bit better, and coming home a joy. Except when they root through garbage.
Enjoy your small town, your friends and your life. Stay here with us when you can. You're good for the soul.
Drago said...
"If its not overt, and I would agree that its clearly not "overt", then perhaps you and those who think like you read into his writing things that are not there."
If it was just his writing, then maybe, but it's HIM they don't like.
"Which would make it easier to ostracize and ignore him without having to actually engage on any substantive points he makes, which are many."
I engage with all the black conservatives, but, since they usually only talk to other conservatives - and usually white ones - the conversations hardly qualify as substantive for me. For instance, ask a black conservative about reparations and they will almost always give you the history of slavery - not dealing with the issue of what happened here, where "All Men Are Created Equal" was invented - and violated - resulting in blacks being regarded as subhuman, but trying to convince blacks what happened here doesn't matter because whites enslaved by pirates won't get any. There's hardly ever any follow-up questions. That answer is almost always good enough for them, while I'm left frustrated because the interviewer doesn't know the subject well enough to dig down into the nitty gritty.
"Just another way to shut down a "brother" who walked off the plantation."
You guys still love that "plantation" talk. Haven't you learned THAT'S the kind of thing that turns blacks away from you?
Some sweet sweet leftwing racism and toxicity... and tolerance.
which translates as “Don’t look to us when white folks turn on you.”
You are smarter than this.
Obama was elected by whites in hopes he would bring the end of black on white racism.
Whites I know want to end it and are eager to accept blacks as equals when they show that they are equal. Not necessarily equal outcomes but equal effort and respect,
Obama was such a huge disappointment because he stoked the fires of racism to get political benefit.
I have a casual friend who is a black orthopedist. I told him about "The 10,000 year explosion" which goes into the genetics of white skin. He bought copies for his daughters. I told him Farrakhan was right. We are "Ice People" because, as humans moved out of Africa, they encountered cold climates and seasons which required clothing.
White skin evolved to absorb more vitamin D.
Anyway, race pimps are stoking racism for political benefit, which means graft,
The plantation talk refers to the leftwing plantation. Nothing more, nothing less.
Nice to see you, Crack Emcee.
Annie C said....
"Stay here with us when you can. You're good for the soul."
Damn - I'm touched. Really. But stop it: If these Indian kids see you guys talking this way, they'll be sure I'm a deity and I'll never hear the end of it. (Because they're kids, and VERY persistent, I'm playing along with the "guru as teacher" concept, so I can give them advice they can trust when they need it - they ask about EVERYTHING - but I don't want to blow this up any more then it is): I just want us to get along. So, if I can articulate something better than "they hate her because she left the plantation" to assist in that, then great.
LISTEN TO MY SONG AND SHARE IT WITH SOMEBODY!!!!
http://thecrackemcee.tk
Michael K said...
“You are smarter than this.”
I’m explaining what’s transpiring in the black community - not what I feel.
“Obama was elected by whites in hopes he would bring the end of black on white racism.”
I don’t think he got the memo.
“Whites I know want to end it and are eager to accept blacks as equals when they show that they are equal. Not necessarily equal outcomes but equal effort and respect,”
Me, too. You know this. I just want reparations, too. End Affirmative Action - all that - just settle the slavery/reconstruction issue once and for all, for all to see.
“Obama was such a huge disappointment because he stoked the fires of racism to get political benefit.”
He walked in with Oprah, who has never met a film-flam man she didn’t like. That blacks have been left with nothing wasn’t’t unexpected, and has definitely made my black friends listen to me closer now.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
“The plantation talk refers to the leftwing plantation. Nothing more, nothing less.”
I know, but, if you’re trying to win people over and want them to leave the party they’re in, the least you could do is make the new one welcoming. Whites, sneeringly talking of plantations, just don’t cut it.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home: "The plantation talk refers to the leftwing plantation. Nothing more, nothing less."
He knows that.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
"Nice to see you, Crack Emcee."
Ditto - to everyone. And thanks to Ann for the understanding.
I usually dont associate with the likes of Crack Emcee.
I'm from the North Bay and we dont cotton much to those fellas from the East Bay.
Drago said...
“I usually dont associate with the likes of Crack Emcee.
I'm from the North Bay and we dont cotton much to those fellas from the East Bay.”
BWAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I’m a Central Valley boy now, I guess, but I hear ya: I can’t relax around hippies anymore.
 FullMoon said...
”Whites…are eager to accept blacks as equals…”
“Ya know, California gets a lot of well deserved flack,…But when I read stuff like this, I sure am glad I was born and raised here.”
I heard Ana Navarro say “CNN tries to be fair” (to Trump) the other day and it got my attention in the same way: They TRY? Methinks they fail.
BTW - I get FullMoon’s point and know it’s good.
“The plantation talk refers to the leftwing plantation. Nothing more, nothing less.”
I know, but, if you’re trying to win people over and want them to leave the party they’re in, the least you could do is make the new one welcoming. Whites, sneeringly talking of plantations, just don’t cut it.
--
How about blacks using the term?
And if individualism is off-putting as well.
Do reveal the current poll tested welcoming wording.
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