Althouse: "There have always been two parts to the Trump-Russia probe: the what-Russia-did part... and the get-Trump part...."

July 17, 2018

"There have always been two parts to the Trump-Russia probe: the what-Russia-did part... and the get-Trump part...."

"Trump's problem is that he has always refused, or been unable, to separate the two. One is about national security and international relations, while the other is about Donald Trump. The president clearly believes if he gives an inch on the what-Russia-did part — if he concedes that Russia made an effort to disrupt the election — his adversaries, who want to discredit his election, undermine him, and force him from office, will take a mile on the get-Trump part. That's consistent with how Trump approaches other problems; he doesn't admit anything, because he knows his adversaries will never be satisfied and just demand more."

Writes Byron York at The Washington Examiner.

301 comments:

«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 301 of 301

Drago said...: Yancey Ward: "The passes were irrelevant to the defense of Georgia from Russia. We know this because Russia took them with little effort."

Its not always easy in that part of the world, even for a first world military. The Russians lost around 2,000 tanks just in Chechnya in a couple years in the mid-90's.; 7/17/18, 3:40 PM
rhhardin said...: Richard Epstein doesn't get a single thing about Trump. Vituperation spectacular.

https://www.hoover.org/research/libertarian-trump-putin-and-us-russia-relationship; 7/17/18, 3:41 PM
Drago said...: r/v: "Double negatives, double dipping -- he is master of both."

LOL

"OMG HELSINKI!!!" isn't working (that didn't take long to fall apart) so it looks like we're back to emoluments.

And when it comes to profiting off a presidency, one need look no further than 1 George Washington.; 7/17/18, 3:43 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Geographical strongpoints only really matter if you can actually defend them in the first place. While Germany was given Sudetenland by the Allies in appeasement, it wouldn't have mattered- German could have conquered Czechoslovakia without that first appeasement step almost as easily- the military disparities were simply too great. Had Hitler been less ambitious, WWII maybe never happens, but France and the UK could have drawn the line in 1938 rather than 1939, too.; 7/17/18, 3:43 PM
buwaya said...: "We know this because Russia took them with little effort."

Because Russia had taken the precaution of building up a pseudo-nationalist South Ossetian separatist movement, that just happened to hold much of the critical ground, and prevented the Georgians from moving troops quickly to block the pass through which Russian armor entered Georgia.

It didn't help that the Georgians were too lax.; 7/17/18, 3:43 PM
Matt Sablan said...: “Could somebody please provide me with the date that Russia became the bad guys again?"

-- Did they ever STOP being the bad guys?; 7/17/18, 3:46 PM
Drago said...: buwaya: "Because Russia had taken the precaution of building up a pseudo-nationalist South Ossetian separatist movement, that just happened to hold much of the critical ground, and prevented the Georgians from moving troops quickly to block the pass through which Russian armor entered Georgia."

Precisely what the Brits did when Israel was refounded in 1948...yet the Israeli's "persisted"...; 7/17/18, 3:46 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: @J. Farmer,

Which is why NATO expansion eastward is such a foolish and dumb idea. And yet just last weak NATO voted to offer membership to Macedonia.

Yes. Outstanding. Sing it from the mountaintops!

During the Cold War, NATO was an outstanding, necessary organization that met its obligations to serve as a bulwark against Soviet expansion.

After the Cold War, there is no reason to inch eastward, to add more countries, to extend up to the border of Russia. That's just stupid. It serves no strategic purpose.

NATO should not be expanding.

The titan of American diplomacy, George Kennan, agreed:

His voice is a bit frail now, but the mind, even at age 94, is as sharp as ever. So when I reached George Kennan by phone to get his reaction to the Senate's ratification of NATO expansion it was no surprise to find that the man who was the architect of America's successful containment of the Soviet Union and one of the great American statesmen of the 20th century was ready with an answer.

''I think it is the beginning of a new cold war,'' said Mr. Kennan from his Princeton home. ''I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely and it will affect their policies. I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anybody else. This expansion would make the Founding Fathers of this country turn over in their graves. We have signed up to protect a whole series of countries, even though we have neither the resources nor the intention to do so in any serious way. [NATO expansion] was simply a light-hearted action by a Senate that has no real interest in foreign affairs.''

George Kennan had more wisdom in his little pinkie finger than anything John McCain or John Brennan could ever possibly imagine.

Russia and Ukraine have a very complicated relationship, and Ukraine has been the traditional route by which Russia has been invaded and nearly destroyed several times over the past two centuries. They have significant security concerns over their relation with Ukraine. What precipitated the most recent crisis were efforts by the US and Europe to overthrow the Ukrainian government and move it into the Western orbit. Victoria Nuland was recorded on the phone musing about who should be put in charge following the coup against Yanukovych.

This is good, too. It's a border dispute, nothing more. Crimea, for example, has 2 Million, people 77- 84% of which cite Russian as their native language. Whether it should be part of Ukraine or Russia or independent, who cares? I hope it's resolved by a national referendum, but life gets messy sometimes. The US has no vital interest there.

And, if some knucklehead chimes in with, "What about Munich in '39?" they should be immediately horsewhipped for historical ignorance.; 7/17/18, 3:47 PM
Michael K said...: German could have conquered Czechoslovakia without that first appeasement step almost as easily- the military disparities were simply too great

I think that is subject to debate. The Czechs had a good military and many of the tanks that Germany used in its Soviet campaign were Skoda tanks.

In 1938, they were pretty evenly matched. Even in 1940, France was defeated by its own morale issues and by the Hitler inspired Ardennes campaign.; 7/17/18, 3:50 PM
traditionalguy said...: After Missionary Ridge, Red General Sherman next took the passes at Dalton and Georgia was brought back into Lincoln's Empire.

But 1864 war and 2014 war used different weapons. And today Space War has revolutionized wars again. Tanks are no longer the weapons needed to win.; 7/17/18, 3:50 PM
Drago said...: NATO should not be expanding and increasing the likelihood of US troops ('cuz there really ain't nobody else in any significant number or capability) being used as the global police force.

Expansion can be reexamined at a later date when the foundations of NATO are rebuilt...which I think is highly unlikely given the political and social direction of all the european parasite nations.

Besides, China is the real threat long term and thus, Trump is correct in a pragmatic way to attempt something realistic with Putin as well as accelerating efforts with India and other Asian nations.; 7/17/18, 3:51 PM
Yancey Ward said...: And, lets be clear about WWII- even after Poland the Allies did nothing to reverse that event. It took Germany invading the Low Countries and France in 1940 to really get the war going, and even then Hitler could have stopped. He couldn't- he invaded the USSR in 1941, bombarded the UK by air, and even the US didn't actively enter the War until Pearl Harbor. It has always been remarkable to me how far Hitler got before he faced any push back at all.; 7/17/18, 3:51 PM
Michael K said...: prevented the Georgians from moving troops quickly to block the pass through which Russian armor entered Georgia."

There was a pretty good suggestion that a campaign by asymmetrical means could have devastated the Russian tanks. I think one advocate of that at the time was Ralph Peters who is now a NeverTrumper.; 7/17/18, 3:52 PM
Michael K said...: Blogger Yancey Ward said...
And, lets be clear about WWII- even after Poland the Allies did nothing to reverse that event.

That's why Chamberlain's guarantee to Poland was so insane. The Brits and French were never going to invade Germany for Poland.; 7/17/18, 3:54 PM
Drago said...: Yancey Ward: "...and even then Hitler could have stopped. He couldn't- he invaded the USSR in 1941...."

Hitler was on the cusp of succeeding with Operation Barbarossa....but he inexplicably let the remaining Soviet army group to the south bother him so much he turned Army Group Center away from Moscow when the city was literally in sight and the Russian forces had collapsed.

Had Hitler simply demanded taking Moscow at all costs the Germans would have deposed Stalin and wintered comfortably in Moscow as well as securing 80% of all productive capacity of the Soviet state, establishing the conditions to complete the carve out of all Western Soviet Union in the following spring.; 7/17/18, 3:54 PM
Jim at said...: Double negatives, double dipping -- he is master of both.

Maybe you could find each and every organization Trump has donated his quarterly salary since taking office?; 7/17/18, 3:54 PM
Michael K said...: But 1864 war and 2014 war used different weapons.

The US Civil War was a preview of WWI if only the generals had to wit to see it.

The repeating rifle and even the muzzle loading rifle with the Minie' ball was enough to end the era of Napoleonic Wars.

Grant and Lee had a trench war at Petersburg. Only Sherman's flanking move (via Georgia) got Lee out of the trenches.; 7/17/18, 3:57 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/17/18, 3:59 PM
Bay Area Guy said...: @Michael K,

That's why Chamberlain's guarantee to Poland was so insane.

Yes! Agree fully. Poland didn't even ask for it or need it.

But, once it was given, do you think it was also insane for Great Britain to declare war on Germany, after the Poland invasion?; 7/17/18, 4:00 PM
buwaya said...: "German could have conquered Czechoslovakia without that first appeasement step almost as easily- the military disparities were simply too great."

Long term yes, short term no.

Czechoslovakia was arguably better prepared for war than Germany in 1938. The German military was remarkably under-equipped and badly organized even in 1940 (the French campaign relied on a smallish German elite force). With extensive fortifications and defiles to defend, the Czechs could conceivably have held the Germans for several months.

After a while greater German manpower and industry would have made a difference.

Taking Czechoslovakia gave Germany a large amount of excellent equipment and very useful industrial capacity, already set up for war production. Three Panzer Divisions and the equipment for a dozen or more infantry divisions in 1940 came from Czech booty, and perhaps made the difference in the French campaign. Rommels 7th Panzer was one of those equipped with Czech tanks (the others were the 6th and 8th). These three divisions were 3/7ths of Rundstedts Panzers committed to the "sichelschnitt".; 7/17/18, 4:02 PM
traditionalguy said...: The WWI mass carnage for nothing at all was caused by the new weapons that could not be defeated until good Tanks arrived were made. Then after 1920 Air Power became became the next waepon that could not be defeated, and Hitler first put tanks and Air Power into joint attack forces. And as quickly, Jets, Rockets and Atomic Bombs made wars unwinnable.

And guess who else now has developed space weapon stations and satellites with Kinetic Energy weapons that cannot be defeated... IT'S RUSSIA. And that is the enemy the CIA wants us to go to war with so 1914 redux will make them rich. And Trump is smart enough to know that.; 7/17/18, 4:03 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Drago,

I have read that theory for decades now, but still have my doubts about it. I am not convinced taking Moscow in 1941 would have mattered a bit to the eventual outcome (everything else, of course, being equal, such as the US entering the war in Europe).

Stalin and his government would not have been captured by the Nazis in Moscow- Stalin was prepared to retreat to the east if Moscow was going to fall. I think Germany just bit off more than it could chew in the case of Barbarossa. If they take Moscow in 1941, I think it a better than equal proposition that the Soviets still defeat the Germans eventually. Taking Moscow didn't save Napoleon, and I don't think it would have saved the Nazis either- it just might have taken the Russians a few years longer to push them back. Taking the entirety of the Soviet Union was just beyond the capabilities of the Germans.; 7/17/18, 4:04 PM
Lydia said...: Best take yet -- "Donald Trump Channels Noam Chomsky":

Chomsky should be proud. He has won legions of fans over the decades, mainly among the simple and the half-erudite who imagine the MIT professor’s jeremiads offer secret knowledge of the way the world really works. And the key to that secret knowledge is that the U.S. is just as bad, if not worse than, its most vicious adversaries among rogue and revanchist regimes.

Trump has long had a Chomskyite streak, of course. Recall his flirtations with 9/11 trutherism amid the GOP primary campaign; his claim that President Obama quite literally founded ISIS (“ISIS is honoring President Obama. He is the founder of ISIS. He is the founder of ISIS, okay? He is the founder”); and the moral parallel he drew between the U.S. and Russia’s thugocracy in an interview with Bill O’Reilly soon after he took office.

But all that paled next to the spectacle of Trump humiliating America’s security apparatus, elevating the Kremlin’s global prestige, and crediting Putin’s incredible denials of election interference—all while standing next to the Russian strongman, who grinned Cheshire-like with a look of ironical amusement in his eyes.; 7/17/18, 4:07 PM
Drago said...: Yancey: "I have read that theory for decades now, but still have my doubts about it. I am not convinced taking Moscow in 1941 would have mattered a bit to the eventual outcome..."

I didn't talk about "eventual outcomes.

I merely said that losing Moscow would likely have led to Stalin being deposed and the Germans wintering comfortably indoors as well as making it easier to continue the offensive in the Western Soviet Union.

I haven't begun to address how badly Hitler screwed up by not arming the Ukrainians and others and siccing them on the Russians, which they would have done with glee.; 7/17/18, 4:11 PM
Begonia said...: tcrosse, Althouse's comment is the one I don't get. I don't get why she calls him President Romney instead of Candidate Romney and I thought I was missing a joke.

I also had to go back and google to see what people were talking about with referring to Mitt Romney. I don't watch candidate debates (I don't own a TV) so I guess I didn't notice or remember his remark in the 2012 debate.

Buwaya, how on earth has Mexico tried to manipulate US elections?!!!??

Apparently, according to Althouse commenters, it's ok for Russia to try and meddle in our elections because everyone does it. This is a bizarre form of argument.

I just wish that conservatives would get back to being the hard-liners they used to be, so that I could get back to being the softy that I used to be.; 7/17/18, 4:12 PM
Drago said...: Yancey: "If they take Moscow in 1941, I think it a better than equal proposition that the Soviets still defeat the Germans eventually."

I agree...assuming a strong second front in fact emerged.; 7/17/18, 4:12 PM
Yancey Ward said...: I believe that even if the Nazis had not had to devote forces to defend in the west, it wouldn't have saved them from the Soviets. The only thing I am convinced would have saved them would be developing nuclear weapons before first. However, the US would have won that race at about the same time it actually did and would have used them on a still fighting Nazi regime.; 7/17/18, 4:12 PM
Drago said...: Lydia: "Best take yet -- "Donald Trump Channels Noam Chomsky"'

I wonder if Trump was channeling Chomsky when he and Mattis ordered the destruction of the Russian mercenary battalion in Syria?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say..."no".

Words vs deeds.

Works vs deeds.; 7/17/18, 4:14 PM
Mike said...: I must commend the comments section here. It's great to watch people improve their flexibility as they contort into seemingly impossible positions in order to defend Trump's actions. Because liberals.; 7/17/18, 4:15 PM
Michael K said...: But, once it was given, do you think it was also insane for Great Britain to declare war on Germany, after the Poland invasion?

Then it was national honor and all that. To have reneged on the promise would have been impossible for the boys of Eton and all that.

The insanity was giving the guarantee at the last moment.

That is why Buchanan's books is good. It makes you look at premises objectively.

A lot of this goes back to Versailles. The Czechs and Slovaks split up after communism went away.

The Austrian Empire should have been left alone.; 7/17/18, 4:17 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Begonia,

"Althouse's comment is the one I don't get. I don't get why she calls him President Romney instead of Candidate Romney and I thought I was missing a joke."

You are missing the joke. By calling him President Romney, she is pointing out that Russia wasn't considered such an enemy by the man who actually won the 2012 election. The joke is quite clever, in my opinion. It is certainly more clever than just stating the obvious that it is internal US political alignment that is determining who is on what side today.; 7/17/18, 4:24 PM
Comanche Voter said...: Oh come off it. No one is apologizing for the Russkis. On any given day they are probably doing something a lot worse than poking around in Hillary Clinton's drawers to find a scandal (although that does seem to be a particularly target rich environment).

Assuming that we are all grown ups (an assumption not particularly apparent when dealing with the Democrats and their loonier parts) Russia, Pakistan and China are bad actors; we are slightly less bad. That'snot apologizing for the Russkis--that's just recognizing reality.; 7/17/18, 4:36 PM
Drago said...: Mike: "I must commend the comments section here. It's great to watch people improve their flexibility as they contort into seemingly impossible positions in order to defend Trump's actions. Because liberals."

What specific "actions" are you referring to?

Or are you speaking about the language Trump used?

Those should not be confused.; 7/17/18, 4:40 PM
Yancey Ward said...: It is good to finally prove that Powerline is just another thin-skinned GOPe blog. They are deleting comments there I left encouraging people to be skeptical of US intelligence agencies' assertions, and to not listen to people who claim it is wrong to voice such criticisms of those agencies. Simply, wow.; 7/17/18, 4:40 PM
n.n said...: Hillary Clinton's drawers

Water Closet, which was apparently setup as an open server to share classified information.; 7/17/18, 4:41 PM
Churchy LaFemme: said...: In the days of the Empire, the British Foreign Office supposedly had a motto: "Never Apologize. Never Explain.", and it served them well enough.

I remember W's "apology" press conference. It was a shocking thing to watch, and opened my eyes about the press.

You can't put just a little blood in the water hoping to appease the sharks.; 7/17/18, 4:41 PM
Begonia said...: I'll grant you all that there is a ridiculous amount of hyperventilating from the left, if you'll all grant me that we should try and prevent Russia from meddling in our elections in the future.

Deal?; 7/17/18, 4:43 PM
Rick said...: J. Farmer said...The problem is that it was criticized not on its merits but on its partisan affiliations. For many conservatives, the reset was bad because a Democrat was doing it.

The biggest difference in blogging today is the evidence Farmer requires before he accepts a comment and the evidence he requires before he makes one. While others must define "taken" to his satisfaction he asserts this nonsense based on nothing but his need to denigrate others.

Not only is he wrong on these motives but the "reset" meant nothing and accomplished nothing. It was a stunt driven by domestic partisan politics which Farmer presents as a negative in the current context but because it's useful to his conclusion he ignores it in the reset.

Except the Russians have not taken Georgia or Ukraine.

A devotee of Gerald Ford I see.

"There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe." - Gerald Ford

The 2008 Russo-Georgia conflict was a minor affair that should not substantially disrupt US-Russian relations, which are far more consequential and substantial.

Whether it was minor on the world stage does not show it didn't happen. Farmer is challenging reality because he wishes people didn't care about this sort of thing.; 7/17/18, 4:46 PM
Darkisland said...: Blogger buwaya said...

As a conservative of the (very) old school I must distrust democracy ab initio.

I'm not a conservative but I suspect that we are in agreement here. Democracy is just a fancy name for mob rule. It is why the US is constitutionally structured as non-democracy.

I was being facetious accusing you of being against democracy.

I believe, as a liberal, that the best way to temper the perils of democracy/mob rule/majoritarianism is to limit the size and scope of government as severely as possible.

The more impotent they are the less it matters how bad they are.

For all the accusations by the fascists complaining about President Trump, he seems to be the most liberal president we've had in a long, long time. Perhaps ever. He has a lot of work to do undoing a century of fascist progressivism but in 18 short months he has made an amazing start and accomplished much.

John Henry; 7/17/18, 4:47 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Begonia wrote:

"if you'll all grant me that we should try and prevent Russia from meddling in our elections in the future."

I missed where we proved that Russia meddled, but even worse I have missed where people here have argued that we do nothing make meddling harder. Like I written until I am blue in the hands- prove to me the Russians meddled- don't assert to me that they did. I lose interest in commenters who can't be bothered distinguish the difference between assertions and evidence. And I do so even more quickly with commenters who construct straw men to attack.; 7/17/18, 4:48 PM
buwaya said...: Chomsky was not quite right at the time.
The world, in its turnings, has made him rather more correct.

To be clear, the US secret services and mass media were never exactly saintly.
Quite often they were pretty terrible. The MSM was always a gatekeeper of information, in such a way as served its own purposes, some of which Chomsky in his naivete did not figure on.

The problem today is that the other side (sides) are much less horrible than their Cold War equivalents, and the US "deep state" and its appurtenances has degenerated.

So Lydia, it is not a "best take", it is rather extraordinarily retro. As if the last 40 years had not passed.; 7/17/18, 4:52 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Andrew McCarthy wrote an essay today stating his belief that meeting with Putin is unnecessary. Perhaps, but this is an issue of opinion, not fact. I think it important to maintain good relations with leaders who are capable of destroying your country should they choose to do so. Russia is an existential threat to the US and vice versa, and both are existential threats to civilization- there is no doubt about that- it is fact. Just being a despot changes none of that- you still have to get along well enough to avoid catastrophe. Maybe meeting someone in person isn't necessary for that, but I don't see how it hurts either.

And meeting with Putin does nothing to improve his position within Russia itself- he is going to be the leader until he dies, and when he dies another despot will take his place that we will have to deal with.; 7/17/18, 4:54 PM
Darkisland said...: Blogger Drago said...

I merely said that losing Moscow would likely have led to Stalin being deposed and the Germans wintering comfortably indoors as well as making it easier to continue the offensive in the Western Soviet Union.

I mentioned that I am rewatching War and Peace and am at the point where Napoleon has taken Moscow and gotten nothing but an empty burning city.

There is quite a bit written about the Napoleonic experience with the Russian winter.

Had The NAtional Socialists taken Moscow, I suspect that 1814 would have replayed. Stalin et al would have decamped east, leaving the Germans at the end of a long supply line in an empty burning city again. Not quite empty, probably a well supplied saty behind troops to harass the Germans and add to their misery.

Napoleon thought that by capturing Moscow he had won the war and the Czar would have to capitulate. But as Kutozov says "Moscow is not Russia. It's just a city" and the Czar did not recognize that capturing it meant a loss.

Napoleon lost something like 400,000 men in his Russian fiasco. The national Socialists lost even more.

John Henry; 7/17/18, 4:58 PM
buwaya said...: "if you'll all grant me that we should try and prevent Russia from meddling in our elections in the future. "

I wonder how you would prevent China or the Arabs or Mexico from doing that, through their agents of influence in the US. These are extensive. Add the British or the Germans or whomever you want to include. There are many ways to influence US politics, and many ways to finance US politics.; 7/17/18, 4:59 PM
Ray - SoCal said...: I also thought the President Romney comment was clever.

I am still a bit sad he lost, but without him losing, we would not have gotten Trump, Obama further destroying the Democratic Party/globalists political power, and making the deep state visible.; 7/17/18, 5:24 PM
FIDO said...: Henry Cavill just apologized for talking sensibly about the MeToo movement.

He is toast.

Since the Left has a habit of taking any admission of weakness and then digging in twice as hard, I don't care a bit about the stance Trump takes.

Christians used to offer this thing called 'grace' to people who did wrong. It was a way to entice people back into the fold.

The Left hates forgiveness and Christianity and treats all ideological enemies who do not self humiliate as someone to break. No disagreement can be tolerated.

See your average male Feminist. But most of them are actually motivated in their stance for pity sex...or worse.

You know, if the Left weren't assholes, they might win some elections. I guess we are lucky...

When you lose Laci Green...; 7/17/18, 5:28 PM
Michael K said...: There is quite a bit written about the Napoleonic experience with the Russian winter.

There is another theory about Napoleon and Russia.

His army was devastated by typhus. Hans Zinsser wrote a famous book in the 1930s called, "Rats, Lice and History. and there is pretty good evidence that most of the casualties were actually to disease, specifically typhus.

Winter, of course, contributed but he lost hundreds of thousands to disease. Typhus is a disease of crowding and not bathing.

He was already losing troops in Poland in summer. Lice were endemic in Poland and there was a dry summer. No bathing.

Typhus is also called "Gaol fever" as it was common in prisons in the old days.

Napoleon's surgeon, Baron Larrey, was a wonderful military surgeon , he invented the ambulance, but typhus was beyond the medicine of the time. Napoelon's army had been vaccinated against smallpox but typhus was new to the French.

Three tries with Blogger.; 7/17/18, 5:29 PM
Michael K said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/17/18, 5:31 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: Free speech is dead on the left. You fall in line, you hivemind, you collective group think, or else.; 7/17/18, 5:32 PM
Michael K said...: God, Blogger is a mess !; 7/17/18, 5:33 PM
Paco Wové said...: "if you'll all grant me that we should try and prevent Russia from meddling in our elections in the future."

I'll go further than that – I think we should all try to prevent any foreign actor from 'meddling' (however you define the term) in our electoral process. Now, can you convince the DNC of the same? They don't seem to be willing to do their part.; 7/17/18, 5:34 PM
Rick said...: Begonia said...
Apparently, according to Althouse commenters, it's ok for Russia to try and meddle in our elections because everyone does it. This is a bizarre form of argument.

The relevant questions are whether the meddling had any effect and is there something we can reasonably do about it. Both answers are no.

But the leftists aren't interested in these questions. They're only interested in misstating the issue so they can use it to further a partisan attack.

I just wish that conservatives would get back to being the hard-liners they used to be, so that I could get back to being the softy that I used to be.

And he admits both his own hypocrisy and that it is driven by partisanship.; 7/17/18, 5:35 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: If the GOP/ RNC were hacked, would anyone care?

I doubt it.; 7/17/18, 5:39 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: Blogger is a mess.; 7/17/18, 5:40 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “I must commend the comments section here. It's great to watch people improve their flexibility as they contort into seemingly impossible positions in order to defend Trump's actions. Because liberals.”

It’s the politics of spite. They support a president who is an adversarial nation’s quisling without a moment of hesitation. Patriotism on the right is dead.
———————————————————
“America’s child president had a play date with a KGB alumnus, who surely enjoyed providing day care. It was a useful, because illuminating, event: Now we shall see how many Republicans retain a capacity for embarrassment.

Americans elected a president who — this is a safe surmise — knew that he had more to fear from making his tax returns public than from keeping them secret. The most innocent inference is that for decades he has depended on an American weakness, susceptibility to the tacky charisma of wealth, which would evaporate when his tax returns revealed that he has always lied about his wealth, too. A more ominous explanation might be that his redundantly demonstrated incompetence as a businessman tumbled him into unsavory financial dependencies on Russians. A still more sinister explanation might be that the Russians have something else, something worse, to keep him compliant.

The explanation is in doubt; what needs to be explained — his compliance — is not. Granted, Trump has a weak man’s banal fascination with strong men whose disdain for him is evidently unimaginable to him. And, yes, he only perfunctorily pretends to have priorities beyond personal aggrandizement. But just as astronomers inferred, from anomalies in the orbits of the planet Uranus, the existence of Neptune before actually seeing it, Mueller might infer, and then find, still-hidden sources of the behavior of this sad, embarrassing wreck of a man.“

George Will; 7/17/18, 5:44 PM
TRISTRAM said...: "Trump's problem is that he has always refused, or been unable, to separate the two"

I think they misspelled 'The Media's'; 7/17/18, 5:47 PM
bagoh20 said...: ""if you'll all grant me that we should try and prevent Russia from meddling in our elections in the future. "

Agree with the sentiment, but that's not possible. How would we stop them? How would we know meddling by someone else wasn't just disguised to look Russian. Hell, I could even see the Democrats trying that themselves. They seem to have the most to gain from said meddling charges. It's the only weapon they have against the antichrist.; 7/17/18, 5:52 PM
Michael K said...: I see the trolls are showing up.

It was fun, folks.; 7/17/18, 5:53 PM
Darrell said...: Trump should propose the Russian Meddling Act of 2018--

1) Picture IDs and possibly biometric identity checks to minimize vote fraud.

2)(Mandating strong passwords with automatic checks to insure that users are selecting chickenshit passwords, like "password."

3) Prohibiting foreign ownership of US media outlets, like the NYT.

4) The death penalty for stripping classified headers from classified messages and running private servers for government communications.

5) Prohibiting people who had prior security violations--on record even if not convicted--from ever holding public elected office again, or even running for public office.

6) I'm sure Althouse's comments can suggest others.; 7/17/18, 5:54 PM
tcrosse said...: George Will's bow tie is on a little too tight.; 7/17/18, 5:55 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: The FBI warned the DNC about cyber security threats. They didn't pay any attention. Why bother when the nexus of Brennen and Clapper are there to cover for HIllary and her corruption.

Cyber security? bah; 7/17/18, 5:58 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: George Will sounds like a petulant child.; 7/17/18, 6:00 PM
Drago said...: I see The Parrot is cuttin' and pastin' again.

George Will was literally a nazi to the left mere months ago.

I wonder how he rehabilitated himself?; 7/17/18, 6:00 PM
Drago said...: Dickin'Bimbos@Home: "George Will sounds like a petulant child"

Which is why lefties are now quoting him! The recognize a kindred spirit!; 7/17/18, 6:01 PM
Chuck said...: Wow, I've been working and haven't yet seen this bit of classic Trump bullshit:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/17/17582842/trump-putin-russia-2016-election-lie

Trump is now trying to walk back his clear, videotaped press-conference statement in which he said "I don't see any reason why it would be [Russia, that hacked into DNC servers to expose the emails]".

The new claim is that Trump meant to say I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be [Russia].

What a liar.; 7/17/18, 6:02 PM
Drago said...: LLR and self-identified Smear merchant Chuck: "What a liar."

Most smear merchants, like yourself, are.; 7/17/18, 6:07 PM
Darrell said...: You know who's a real piece of shit?

Chuck.
No surprise there.; 7/17/18, 6:08 PM
Drago said...: You wanna know who a huge liar is?

Dem Stolen Valor Senator Blumenthal. And about his military record!

tsk tsk.

And LLR Chuck defended him up and down.

Well played Chuck! Always on the lookout for those liars, are you?

LOL; 7/17/18, 6:09 PM
buwaya said...: Lets say Mr. Bloomberg runs.

And to do this obtains loans from HSBC (Hongkong Shanghai Bank, just an example), as of course even he needs liquidity to run, else he would have to sell ownership in things that he may not want to sell right off. Now, it may be that the Chinese government takes an interest in this process (though HKSB is independent, Xi and friends are influential). Things go "more smoothly" than they may have otherwise. So how does this fit in the categories of foreign influence?

There is every sort of permutation of this.; 7/17/18, 6:15 PM
Michael K said...: I don't think Bloomberg is "Woke" enough for the Communist who wants to shut down LaGuardia.

I winder if it ever occurred to Fiorello that Democrats could be this crazy?; 7/17/18, 6:21 PM
PackerBronco said...: Blogger Yancey Ward said...

The future of the country depends far less on the state of Trump's tax returns and finances because Trump will leave office in 6 and 1/2 years at a minimum.

Damn Yancey, if that's the minimum, what's the maximum?; 7/17/18, 6:31 PM
Darrell said...: I have no reason to think that Chuck is not working for the Democrats.; 7/17/18, 6:34 PM
Drago said...: Darrell: "I have no reason to think that Chuck is not working for the Democrats."

How he self-identifies or who he might claim to be allied with or not allied with is utterly irrelevant.

He is clearly fully and completely operationally aligned with the dems/left.

Every now and again he will pick something which is a fait accompli to attempt to reestablish his online conservative personal "street cred", but inevitably for every issue where there is a real on-going battle and the outcome is in question LLR Chuck will invariably run with the the left.

Which is his right.

As is ours to notice it.; 7/17/18, 6:37 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: "It is, in miniature, the entire crisis of authority of the professional classes today. Sure, the professionals might be telling you the truth. But even though we blew up our credibility a long time ago, we still keep repeating -- in ever more hysterical tones -- our argument from authority: "Why don't you dumb bumpkins just shut up and believe us???"

7/17/18, 12:37 PM"; 7/17/18, 6:46 PM
walter said...: FIDO said...Henry Cavill just apologized for talking sensibly about the MeToo movement.
--
Cavillity bullshit; 7/17/18, 7:20 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: buwaya said...
"if you'll all grant me that we should try and prevent Russia from meddling in our elections in the future. "

I wonder how you would prevent China or the Arabs or Mexico from doing that, through their agents of influence in the US. These are extensive. Add the British or the Germans or whomever you want to include. There are many ways to influence US politics, and many ways to finance US politics.

7/17/18, 4:59 PM

Ahh, I see that Darrell beat me to it. Being so concerned about election security, surely now we can pass some anti-fraud measures? Let's start with True Voter ID.; 7/17/18, 7:22 PM
Sebastian said...: "Trump should propose the Russian Meddling Act of 2018"

A few more provisions are needed:

1. Anyone who has received, or is in any way related to an organization that has received, or has a family member of friend who has received, funds from the Russian government, a Russian entity, or a Russian person, including "honoraria" for speeches or "gifts" to foundations, shall be ineligible for any public office in the United States.

2. Anyone who has used, directly or indirectly, information or resources supplied by any official in the Russian government or any other Russian, in the furtherance of a political campaign, including but not limited to the use of disinformation in the compilation of opposition-research dossiers, shall be ineligible etc.

3. Talking to the Russian ambassador to the United States, or to any other diplomatic representative of Russia, shall be a felony under the criminal law of the United States, subject to imprisonment for a term of no more than 5 years.; 7/17/18, 7:28 PM
Douglas B. Levene said...: What Byron York wrote was so obviously true it astounds me that anyone would try to refute it. Of course, you can always say the truth doesn’t matter and any lie will serve in a good cause and come to think of it, that’s what a lot of the commenters here did say. Screw that. Screw blind loyalty. Trump is doing great on his domestic policies but he’s off the rails on his foreign policies, and he’s buttering Putin with lies to our face. Screw that.; 7/17/18, 7:52 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: Blogger Michael K said...

there is pretty good evidence that most of the casualties were actually to disease, specifically typhus.

I would not be surprised if there was typhus though I don't recall reading much about it in any of the accounts I've read. I would not be surprised if typhus hit the French army hard while it was in Moscow. Again, I don't recall reading about it. It would certainly have weakened the army that left Moscow.

But on the march, it seems to me that typhus might have been the least of their problems. They had little food, little transport, no winter clothing, no shelter, harrassment by Cossacks and wolves temperatures in the -20-40 degree range.

John Henry; 7/17/18, 8:06 PM
Unknown said...: I would not be surprised if there was typhus though I don't recall reading much about it in any of the accounts I've read.

While fictional, C.S. Forester's 1945 novel Commodore Hornblower treats this: his duty takes our eponymous hero into the Baltic in 1812 to meet the Czar. On this visit he pays a visit to a Russian palace where he observes impressive Russian fleas and comes home with one. At the end of the book he falls ill with what we later learn is typhus, which is alluded to as a profound killer in the campaign.

Not conclusive proof of anything, except that the belief in the spectre of gaol fever was in play seventy years ago.; 7/17/18, 8:38 PM
roesch/voltaire said...: Gotta love this blog: Will’s writings are compared to a troll, and all the generals are fighting the Eastern front while the wet noodle slaps around the EU, CIA, FBI and free press while handing his ball over to Putin.; 7/17/18, 8:41 PM
Michael K said...: I don't recall reading much about it in any of the accounts I've read.

Medical history is a bit specialized which is why I wrote a book for medical students. There was nothing suitable.

Here's a book on Napoleon and typhus.

Here is an article but in German. They did not like my ad blocker so I'm not sure about the translation.

Do a search on Napoleon and typhus and others will come up.

It's pretty well established in the medical history literature.

Lots of new medical history data through DNA technology.; 7/17/18, 8:42 PM
Michael K said...: Will’s writings are compared to a troll,

No, he is just an insane NeverTrumper like Max Boot and Patterico.

They are around. One is at Ricochet but everyone dismisses him.

Only the looney left agrees with you plus a few TDS victims.; 7/17/18, 8:44 PM
Michael K said...: At the end of the book he falls ill with what we later learn is typhus, which is alluded to as a profound killer in the campaign.

It was particularly prevalent in what we now call "Poland." The variety is called "Endemic Typhus" and is carried by lice.

The other variety is called "Murine Typhus" and is carried by mice fleas. It has recently adopted flying squirrel fleas and there are cases in New England.; 7/17/18, 8:47 PM
Darrell said...: R/V was positive that a YouTube video prompted the attacks on Americans in Egypt and Benghazi, including the murder of a U.S. Ambassador. The Gov't and the Media said so. Listen to your betters, especially Left Wing punters.; 7/17/18, 9:00 PM
Seeing Red said...: So was Inga if I remember.; 7/17/18, 9:01 PM
Drago said...: r/v: "Gotta love this blog: Will’s writings are compared to a troll, and all the generals are fighting the Eastern front while the wet noodle slaps around the EU, CIA, FBI and free press while handing his ball over to Putin."

LOL

Just soak that one in for a few moments!

The harder r/v tries, the worse it gets!; 7/17/18, 9:05 PM
Darrell said...: If the EU, CIA and FBI were in a bus that went over a cliff, who should fill the remaining 47 seats?; 7/17/18, 9:08 PM
Francisco D said...: "I'll grant you all that there is a ridiculous amount of hyperventilating from the left, if you'll all grant me that we should try and prevent Russia from meddling in our elections in the future.

I can get behind that.

However, countries meddle into other countries everyday lives. It has been going on forever. Russia and the USA are only two examples. It is not going to stop, but we can work on improving our countermeasures. I guess Obama was asleep on that issue.

That said, I am more concerned about the integrity of our military/scientific/industrial research secrets than I am about voting and influencing the vote. Our system is too chaotic and idiosyncratic for another country to hijack it. A far more common form of voting fraud is when dead people vote. (I grew up in Chicago).

The Russians are going to play games with us and we are going to play games with them. The only reason this has become a current issue is that Hillary lost and the weaponized government institutions are scared to lose their jobs, licenses and sinecures.; 7/17/18, 9:09 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: I'm reading a pretty good book on the History of Disease by this guy named Kennedy (Available via the portal). Just searched typhus and there seems to be an interesting section on Napoleon and typhus.

Perhaps I need to just shut up and read.

John Henry; 7/17/18, 9:26 PM
n.n said...: The only reason this has become a current issue is that Hillary lost and the weaponized government institutions

The only reason this has become a current issue is that Hillary lost and the insurance policy was to stage a cover-up of Obama spying on American citizens, Clinton colluding with foreign agents, DNC denying the vote to Democrats, and the weaponized government institutions, including several intelligence agencies, targeting American citizens, Republicans specifically, but also members of the press.; 7/17/18, 9:33 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Here’s another Trumpist hero.

David Duke
David Duke
@DrDavidDuke
What happened in Helsinki is Historic. I my lifetime I have never seen such a courageous attack on the whole of the ZOG, the Zionist Occupied Government of the United States and the Zionist Occupied Media! Today Trump is a Hero! Trump is no Jesus but they hate him as much!!!!!!
6:39 PM · Jul 16, 2018

David Duke
David Duke
@DrDavidDuke
Bravo Trump! Bravo Russia! Bravo to all the true American Patriots who put America first and Peace and Justice first before the Zionist Deep Evil State ruling American Media and Politics. Russia has values America once had and America the values that Communist Russia had!
6:43 PM · Jul 16, 2018; 7/17/18, 9:37 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: DAvid Duke sees what he wants to see. Much like leftists.; 7/17/18, 9:50 PM
Michael K said...: I'd be happier if Mexico stopped meddling in our elections.

Inga must have been diverted by a large number of full bed pans.

David Duke was in one of them, I guess.; 7/17/18, 9:58 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: Remember, Trump's Policies Against Russia Have Been Tougher Than Obama's

"We’ve been killing Russian mercenaries in Syria. We have expanded and enhanced NATO’s footprint in Eastern Europe over Russian objections. We have sold military weaponry to Ukraine. We have been indicting Russians for interfering in our elections. We have imposed sanctions on Russian oligarchs. We have imposed sanctions on Russia itself. We have actively been aiding Britain and other governments that have seen a Russian presence with targeted assassinations. “We” being the United States under Donald Trump. (See also this thread by James Kirchick)

The media and left would have you believe Donald Trump is captive to Russia. Lately, they’ve been pushing the idea that he may be some sort of sleeper cell Manchurian candidate who Putin owns and controls.; 7/17/18, 10:06 PM
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...: David Duke and the Democrat Party Media have a lot in common.; 7/17/18, 10:08 PM
Unknown said...: However, countries meddle into other countries everyday lives. It has been going on forever. Russia and the USA are only two examples. It is not going to stop, but we can work on improving our countermeasures. I guess Obama was asleep on that issue.

Does anyone expect the problem of election meddling or any other "meddling" to be solved by scolding? Sanctions perhaps? Assassinating the people on Mueller's latest list?

Or treaties, or words of honor to "cut it out?"

The only defense...is to have a defense!; 7/17/18, 11:13 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Darrell said...
"Trump should propose the Russian Meddling Act of 2018--"

Thread winner right here!; 7/18/18, 1:01 AM
Yancey Ward said...: PackerBronco said...

"Damn Yancey, if that's the minimum, what's the maximum?"

I saw that after I had hit "Publish", but was too lazy to fix it, and I figured it might make certain trolls' heads explode if they actually caught it. I did, of course, meant the 6 1/2 as a maximum.; 7/18/18, 1:05 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Rick:

The biggest difference in blogging today is the evidence Farmer requires before he accepts a comment and the evidence he requires before he makes one. While others must define "taken" to his satisfaction he asserts this nonsense based on nothing but his need to denigrate others.

I did not ask anyone to "define 'taken' to [my] satisfaction." I asked him to clarify what it means, since in terms of international relations, it does not have a clear cut meaning. In fact, the commenter clarified that he meant installing puppet governments.

Whether it was minor on the world stage does not show it didn't happen. Farmer is challenging reality because he wishes people didn't care about this sort of thing.

Of course I never said "it didn't happen." What I said, and believe, is that it was not significant enough of an issue to seriously harm US-Russian relations, which are vastly more important. The Iraq War was a much more damaging and consequential war than the Russian invasion, but I don't believe that it should seriously hamper Russia's ability to work with us on important issues.
Not only is he wrong on these motives but the "reset" meant nothing and accomplished nothing. It was a stunt driven by domestic partisan politics which Farmer presents as a negative in the current context but because it's useful to his conclusion he ignores it in the reset.

If I am "wrong on these motives," please explain the dramatic shift in the public's view of Russia along partisan lines.

The "reset" did achieve important concessions, mainly the use of Russian airspace for the Afghanistan war.; 7/18/18, 4:00 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: The "reset" did achieve important concessions, mainly the use of Russian airspace for the Afghanistan war.

I thought you detested the Afghanistan War. Aren't you a Butcher & Bolt type? I'm sure the Russians are delighted for us to linger there.; 7/20/18, 5:57 AM