"... but the internet governs our lives today. It used to be that when you communicated with someone, the person you were communicating with was as important as the information; Now on the internet, the person is unimportant at all. Becoming your own filter will be the challenge of the future. Will our children's children's children need the companionship of humans - or will they have evolved in a world where that's not important? It sounds awful doesn't it? But maybe it will be fine, and the companionship of robots and an intelligent internet will be sufficient. Who am I to say?"
Says Lawrence Krauss, the theoretical physicist, at the end of the Werner Herzog documentary, "Lo and Behold/Reveries of a Connected World."
These are the last spoken words in the film, which then ends with some scientists outdoors playing guitar/banjo/fiddle and singing the old song "Salty Dog." I can see there's a Johnny Cash version of this song and a Flatt & Scruggs, but the version I've known for half a century is by Mississippi John Hurt.
Flatt & Scruggs sing, "Let me be your salty dog or I won't be your man at all," and so does Johnny Cash, but Mississippi John Hurt sings "Let me be your salty dog/I don't want to be your man at all." It makes a difference! Ah, here's the whole script for the movie, and it gives the lyrics: "Let me be your salty dog/I won't be your man at all." That makes a difference too — a difference that affects what I want to say. But let me try anyway.
The movie not only talks about the loss of humanity on the internet (as the last spoken words show), it includes the famous cartoon, "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" (showing an actual dog using the internet). You see where I'm going with this. The film ends with the spoken idea that maybe in the future people won't need the companionship of another human, and then you get the sung lyric of an offer of companionship that excludes being an man. The singer wants to be your dog and not your man. In one way, very literally, it reinforces the Krauss + New Yorker cartoon idea of evolving away from real touch with another person.
But because of the way we suddenly see and hear live human beings together playing and singing, we are roused into feeling that nothing could be more important than getting together with other people in the flesh. It's the very last thing in the movie, number one. Secondly, these men are obviously vitally alive and enjoying their immediately company. Thirdly, they are singing an enthusiastic plea for physical love from the "you" whose salty dog they are begging to be. I feel certain the film's final send off is a message to hold onto your humanity.
And yet that message is complicated by the old line about not wanting to be a man at all. Even before we got abstracted into the bodiless world of the internet, there were songs expressing an intense desire to escape being a man. But that was in the opposite direction from abstraction and into the role of dog. It was a desire to be even more intensely in the fleshly, embodied world.
"Salty Dog" is an old song, not to be confused with "Salty Dog" by Procol Harum (which is about sailors). The idea of being your dog has been around for a long time. Here's "I Wanna Be Your Dog" by The Stooges:
Also, for those who've followed the story of Althouse and Meade, there's the line "We want to BE your dog."
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Aldous Huxley did not anticipate the birth control pill.
He had the women in "Brave New World" having cartridge belts of contraceptives.
Russell Marker was eccentric but he invented the pill, although his credit is often distorted.
n 1949, Russell Marker dropped out of science — “I considered all chemists to be crooks,” he bitterly opined — and a scientist named Carl Djerassi was hired to head the lab at Syntex, the hormone-synthesizing laboratory in Mexico that Marker had co-founded in 1944. Within a few years, Syntex was a major player on the synthetic-hormone scene in Europe and the Americas.
Many sources do not give Marker credit. If you call it that.
God Damn Blogger !
Probably better to be a salty dog than a dirty old egg sucking dog.
I guess this guy missed Neuromancer in 1984, in which William Gibson conceived of the Matrix, a then-futuristic global data network. And the rest of the entire Cyberpunk genre.
Not all of them, no.
However, Larry Niven had 'hand computers' in "Mote in God's Eye". The characters could write on them and get math done, call up facts, ship schedules, to do lists, and even video clips from the central ship's computer.
Robert Aspirin also had incredibly expensive personal computers which did...well...everything in his "Phule" series.
These are two which come right off the top of my head.
David Brin had 'The Library' with mini and micro branches which sounded a lot like Wikipedia but with an actually USEFUL editorial staff.
The Professor wants to make what he thinks is a cogent point, but he is incorrect.
Actually I guess the Matrix also appeared in the earlier short story Burning Chrome, one of my favorites. Another feature of that story is prostitutes who operate in semi-consciousness, for clients "needing someone and wanting to be alone at the same time."
Asimov in "The Naked Sun" had Solarans who lived on massive estates and only saw one another by holo images with reproduction as a messy and unavoidable responsibility.
So even the social isolation was there.
Frankly, it would be boring arguing and railing at just machines. There is less of a visceral satisfaction to that.
So once again, the Professor is wrong
The Andy Griffith version with the Darlings is the Salty Dog I remember.
"that message is complicated by the old line about not wanting to be a man at all."
Wait, the line in the movie was about not wanting to be "your man" at all.
There is a difference.
I liked the Procol Harum version, for a time. Call it a phase.
There was a song called "Candyman Salty Dog" sung by this rather famous children music trio in Canada in the late 70/80s that would haunt you to your grave if you dare search the utubes. Some things you can't unhear or unknow , no matter how long you try to unthink your way through it.
I'm just feeling a little queasy all of a sudden can I never really made the connection between the kids song and the old blues songs of similar hue. Hmm maybe I have been unthinking things successful.
Elvis offers an alternative
My mother, who was a brilliant amateur musician, sang "Salty Dog". I nevet questioned that the lyrics were male-specific. It just worked. I would give a year of my life for a recording of her singing this.
“The Andy Griffith version with the Darlings is the Salty Dog I remember.”
I saw that as I was writing this post, but decided against using it because they flipped the gender.
"A Logic Named Joe," by Murray Leinster in Astounding Science Fiction for March 1946 predicted massively networked information systems. It's still a funny read, too.
Loss of humanity. Right.
And the internet lets people get their ideas out, without the filter of our betters. And we can call our betters jackasses, too. Shit like that really frosts their chaps. And you know their chaps are assless.
It's always fascinating to re-watch "2001: A Space Odyssey" and see the computer screen banks displaying nothing but meaningless junk.
But I don't blame the 1968 filmmakers for their lack of imagination.
It wasn't until 1982 that I saw my first email, as a slowly-displayed string of letters running across the bottom of a black screen of a huge CRT monitor, transmitted via an X.25 packet-switching network from the US to the UK.
That was big. Even in our computer manufacturing company, we used Telex to correspond with our foreign subsidiaries and resellers.
In 1945 Vannevar Bush published an essay "As We May Think" in The Atlantic. His concept of the "Memex" predicted hyperlinks, the Internet, web browsers, and speech recognition. The main place where it fell down was storage media, it supposed that data would be stored on high resolution rolls of microfilm. Remember that MIT's Project Whirlwind, which invented core memories, and rotating electromagnetic storage were still years in the future.
Quoth Jay Elink: It's always fascinating to re-watch "2001: A Space Odyssey" and see the computer screen banks displaying nothing but meaningless junk.
But I don't blame the 1968 filmmakers for their lack of imagination."
Clearly the poster makers were more on the ball, because they have the astronauts holding tablet computers that look quite reasonable.
http://cdn.traileraddict.com/content/mgm/2001_space_odyssey.jpg
> And the rest of the entire Cyberpunk genre.
"Snow Crash" and "The Diamond Age", by Neal Stephenson, and "A Fire Upon the Deep" by Vernor Vinge also come to mind. However, the internet had already been invented by the time they were writing. The big name writer who really missed the whole digital revolution was Heinlein.
I always figured that sentient AI would be crazy because of the lack of sensory input and companionship, although these days I think the sensory input problem will be solved. On the other hand, AI hormones and drug experiences should be easy to come by. Now if we only knew the role of sleep, that might be a crucial ingredient.
I got Blind Willie McTell, Leadbelly, John Hurt and Keef.
robert heinlein's FRIDAY spends her free time browsing an intranet (library of congress) but it's clearly a luxery item. As pointed out above, the they NO ONE anticipated was massive cheep memory. everyone talks about how fast processors are; that's not the thing, the thing is memory. An internet (and high speed processors ) don't do you that much good without the content; and the content lives on memory
Solid state memory cards are cheaper/faster/bigger than disc drives. Think of that!
A terrabyte is the basic unit of memory now. Think of that!
Heinlein did have a lot of similar concepts to the internet. AIs, networked computers that ran pretty much everything ("The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"). He also, in a much more visionary view, saw voice mail AND it's use to screen calls (a more subtle extrapolation than simply a mechanical message service).
Still, the idea of a personally owned computer the size of a pack of cigarettes that had more computing power than existed in the entire US (if not world) when we sent men to the moon 49 years ago? Yeah, they missed that. Also, that we use it mostly to play games and act like twits.
Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote the short-story "The Sentinel" that "2001" is based upon, was first to publish the idea of a geostationary satellite in a letter to the editor titled "Peacetime Uses for V2", appearing in the 1945 February issue of "Wireless World".
It took more than 12 years before the Russkies put up Sputnik, but by 1963 the US fulfilled Clarke's prediction by launching Syncom 2 into a stationary orbit. In 1965 we had launched "Early Bird" aka Intelsat, the first geostationary communications satellite. Today there are literally hundreds of such devices circling the globe 22,300 miles up.
How about Clifton Chenier singing he wants to be a hog. Gotta love the old zydeco/blues music.
I'm a hog for you
Living virtually is gonna be good for dudes w/ no game and small dicks.
Not so different from today.
The Internet can either bring the entire world of knowledge to you or it can make the entire world as small as your prejudices. The choice is yours.
"The Andy Griffith Show - Salty Dog Blues (missing scene from 'The Darlings Are Coming')"
You stay away from Her, Earnest T.!
All men are dogs, but not all dogs are bad. [I say this as a men, myself]
Cyberpunk - William Gibson for one - foresaw the internet. Not nicely, but he saw it.
Well read group!
I agree, Neuromancer (1982 that included Johnny Mnemonic - story was much better than the movie)and Mote In Gods Eye (Niven and Pournelle).
Shockwave Rider by Bruner was 1975, and the hero was a computer hacker.
Earthweb (1998) is an interesting books, it's a shame the technology has not happened. It seems we are so close...
Yeah, they missed that. Also, that we use it mostly to play games and act like twits.
and PORN! don't forget PORN; you know, the thing that powers the internet?
Interesting that the entire scaffolding for the plot of Cryptonomicon is obviated by the Internet. I can't find the interview, but Neal Stephenson pointed out that multiple distributed copies of data makes the Cryptonomicon concept of a single safehold archaic.
He also said this:
The Internet has created a situation that we at least have the illusion that we can get unlimited information about anything now — and it may have fostered the attitude that if you take a risk and it doesn’t pan out, you should have known it, and you’re personally responsible.
...I think that naiveté can actually have some advantages, in a strange way.
Works for baseball too.
Here we see the scene where 2001's two astronauts watch newscasts from earth on their tablet computers.
I invented* .pdf files twenty years before they existed.
*in my head.
The story "A Logic Named Joe" basically predicted the internet quite a while ago.
If you want a friend in Academia or a friend in Washington, you get yourself a dog. And then along came Siri.
Procol Harum's A Salty Dog is one of the greats. A Desert Island Disc, indeed.
In fact, I still remember the day I walked into the record store at the mall and asked the guy behind the counter, "what's new and good" and he sent me home with A Salty Dog, Crosby, Stills and Nash's first album and The Band's "Brown" album.
If there's a heaven, I'm sure that's guy's working behind the counter there.
"most science fiction missed."
Science fiction has never been about predicting the future. Commentators can gleefully mourn science fiction's 'failure' to predict various things, but that's an impossible standard to maintain, and in holding it you're setting the genre up for a guaranteed fail. It also misses the whole point, which is instead about exploring possible futures (of which there are infinitely many).
Don't we have rocket ships? Isn't that how we got to the moon? And we've had flying cars for nearly 115 years. They're called "airplanes".
Anyway, science fiction is shit. All of it.
Punk rock is worthless. That's why it's called punk.
The upside of sex with a salty dog: you don't need to worry about birth control. The worst that can happen is you have a "fur baby."
> Anyway, science fiction is shit. All of it.
Hence the name Char Char Binks?
"Let me be your little dog,
Till your big dog comes;
Let me be your little dog,
Till your big dog comes.
And when your big dog gets here,
Watch how your puppy dog runs."
Also, the first words are
"I'm sittin' here wondering,
Would a matchbox hold all my clothes."
Ringo's lyrics make no sense.
That is all.
The negative view of the internet is too limited. Sure, it can limit one's face-to-face interactions, but it can also expose you to a vast range of people that one would never encounter in any other way. The Professor and all of her commenters, for instance.
I used to work for Bellcore back in the '80s. We were very interested to see if the US could duplicate France's successful deployment of the Minitel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel). France had done it by _giving away thousands of the terminals, free_. Then companies had offered services on the system; there were _hundreds_ of different companies who offered online services. Whoa.
We envied them. We considered it almost impossible to do it in the US, due to the AT&T breakup; it was basically illegal for the phone companies to work together with the equipment manufacturers.
While we and others were puttering around, trying to figure out who to organize all this, we rolled out ISDN (now called DSL). Some people set up the WWW and DNS system, and - the internet sprang up around us, completely on its own. Not hundreds but hundreds of thousands of companies put their services on the Web. It was entirely unexpected, and entirely without government supervision. Amazing.
The Clinton administration got credit for the sudden increase of wealth. Until recently (Net Neutrality), they did deserve some credit for keeping out of the way and letting it happen.
My mother gave me this name, God bless her.
Anyway, I was referring to FICTION, that is, novels, more than movies. Besides, Star Wars is more about action and fantasy than science. The first, or fourth, should have been called Galactic Graffiti. Han Solo looks a lot like Bob Falfa.
seems like, if you REALLY Want to point to the thing that ALL Science Fiction stories missed.... It would be about 73 years without a nuclear war.
"Will our children's children's children need the companionship of humans - or will they have evolved in a world where that's not important?"
A question asked in an article that points out the failure of people (whether they are science fiction writers or not is immaterial) to accurately foresee the future in which we now live. I guess the internet is our Mule (Asimov's Foundation series), or the plotters shielded from prescience by a Guild navigator (The Frank's Dune series, which has its own fascinating ruminations on the nature of time, knowledge, and foresight). Regardless, should we really fret over such a possible future? It's not as though foreseeing it makes it destined to one day be foregone.
We'd like to think we can see where we'll be in 50 yrs, but there will be wildcards that will cause some aspects of that vision to be wildly wrong. It has always been this way. Can you think of things in your everyday life that have not significantly changed in the past 50 yrs (or more) that you would feel safe saying will not change significantly over the next 50? Toilets? Men in shorts?
Mel's Drive-In. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
"A Logic Named Joe" is available for free online (legally) here.
I remember Brunner's _Shockwave Rider_ as a return to optimism for an author who had taken a dour turn after writing positive books like _Polymath_. It's been a long time, but as I recall it, Brunner's version of the net turned out to be a force for freedom blowing past some of the ills he had imagined elsewhere (he could be one of those "facism is just around the corner" Brits from time to time).
Black swan. No matter how many white swans you see, it does not negate the possibility of a black swan existing. The possibility of a thermonuclear Armageddon is still a possibility and will always be a possibility so long as nuclear weapons exist........Carbon based life forms are overrated. Perhaps our Darwinian purpose was to create an artificial intelligence that can continue to evolve without help from humans. Perhaps this AI can continue to evolve and create, for its own amusement, a simulacrum whose avatars think they're flesh and blood and perishable. Perhaps we have lived to see this simulacrum.
Well tablets and cell phones were anticipated by Ray Bradbury in 1953's Fahrenheit 451, he called them shells.
Also Dr. Floyd in 2001, is handling something like a tablet.
But in the 90s certainly virtual reality in examples from wild palms to lawnmower man were the big fad
I think you miss part of the attraction to being the dog, rather than a person. The dog gives -- but crucially also gets -- the unconditional love; the dog is the recipient of the very frequent unthinking physical affection.
Sure, it's not a meeting of the minds, but look what nastiness can come from internet interaction, abstracted from physical interaction.
fivewheels said...
I guess this guy missed Neuromancer in 1984, in which William Gibson conceived of the Matrix, a then-futuristic global data network. And the rest of the entire Cyberpunk genre.
7/17/18, 6:46 PM
All hail William Gibson, but he himself will tell you that he is boggled by his own failure to predict the cell phone. He had a character at a key point make a (very expensive) call from a phone booth! Of course it was in England...
I believe Heinlein invented the cellphone (and its annoyances) in _Space Cadet_
(Hey, there are two of us Unknowns out tonight..)
Heinlein also had Mike, the Intelligent AI.
There was also Colossus: The Forbin Project where an AI computer took over the entire world and controlled every bit of data, including spying on everyone.
All of this before the Internet.
To give a headnod to 2001, they also had those video calls to home. But Kubrick showed his European biases of the day. The most important 'part' of the story was a bunch of Eurotrash sitting around a table talking about things that happened, instead of things actually HAPPENING.
Confused Mathew did a wonderful review and critique of the movie. If you took all the 'rocket porn' images out of the movie, it was something like 30 minutes long.
The ship computer on star trek was the first Siri.
The internet is overrated. There seems to be too much emphasis on the medium; look at the content and how it is used (sic). Sci-fi has always had what we have today, it’s just that the exact medium was never really developed in the exact way we have it today.
As already noted, we have flying cars, jet packs, etc. it isn’t the specific things that are important, but what it allows us to do.
william said:ossibility of a thermonuclear Armageddon is still a possibility and will always be a possibility
you're misreading me
I am NOT saying 'there's never ever going to be a war, since there hasn't been one yet'
I'm saying: Name a science fiction story that didn't take As a Given that there'd be one by now. ALL 50's-60's sci-fi was either about a war in the near future; or about one in the distant past ('cause it was WAY in the future).
They said we'd have Black Swans for dinner, Tonight.
What's new about the internet is content.
The in-person vs text thing is the argument of Socrates against writing.
The rebuttal is that speech is a subgenre of writing, not an opposite.
Imagine the day when we will be able to send sperm by post card.
- Derrida, The Post Card
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_Card:_From_Socrates_to_Freud_and_Beyond
Althouse would enjoy the post card chapter in that book - love letters to an unnamed lover.
Flogging Molly's Salty Dog is also a great song.
Also, as others above have noted, Gibson had envisioned the Internetz
Anyway, science fiction is shit. All of it.
Only 90% of it.
If you recall, Chester Gould in the 1950s featured a wrist radio in Dick Tracy. Nit much in comparison to Apple, but there we are. Also recall his maxim: "He who controls magnetism controls the world!" Digital devices essentially EM switches.
Only 90% of it.
Sturgeon's Law
James P. Hogan imagined the same thing in the Giants' trilogy, although it was more advanced and was eventually a fully-immersive alternate reality type of thing.
I used to do computer science in the 1980s (and later) and always thought of the future Big Giant Network would have people getting all sorts of useful information from it. Maps, video phones, weather information, blah blah blah.
Instead we got Twitter and, no lie, people saying stuff like "You'll have my Cute White Kitten (Farmville) when you pry it out of my cold dead hands, bitches."
Oh, and cat videos. Don't forget the cat videos.
I finally found that one reference to Dick Tracy, by of all people, Granny. Well, of course, only she and I are old enough to remember. There was never any mention of internet or wifi, but what else could have possibly allowed his watch to communicate?
People who think the Internet is the most important thing in the world may be spending too much time online.
Ender's Game in 1985. Only 10+ years before Win95 and www internet explosion from Darpanet (the US Def Department plan to maximize chances of continued communication, even after a nuke attack. Routing communications dynamically.)
Locke and Demosthenes in Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game
Ender's a super genius, third child when most countries restrict kids to max 2; he's a third. His genius kind sister and genius ruthless brother take anonymous Net - identities, so as to write and be taken seriously (since they're still kids).
Very much like 2004 Iraq war blogging with names like "Belmont club". (Mine was Liberty Dad... mostly stopped blogging long ago, tho.)
What kind of theoretical physicist is unaware of the existence of rocket ships?
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