July 24, 2018

"Rattled by string of violent attacks, Toronto wonders if city is unraveling."

"As residents grapple with the latest attack to hit the city in recent months, some are asking whether it was becoming less safe" — The Guardian.
“Can’t believe the city I love is unraveling before my eyes because of the actions of a few sick people,” Liberal city councillor Norm Kelly wrote on Twitter on Monday....

“It’s painful to see because in every one of these shootings there was an intervention point, where a service agency didn’t do what they were supposed to do. A government institution didn’t do what they were supposed to do, or they delayed because the people weren’t living in the right postal code,” [said Toroto mayor John Tory].

78 comments:

Gordon Scott said...

Apparently the agencies did succeed in disarming anyone who might have stopped this guy early in the shooting rampage.

J. Farmer said...

Toronto has been vibrantly diversified. Sure social cohesion is disintegrating but think about all the exciting dining options residents now have.

tcrosse said...

Not only that, but they have streetcars.

Ann Althouse said...

I don't follow Canada enough to grasp the gnomic "A government institution didn’t do what they were supposed to do, or they delayed because the people weren’t living in the right postal code."

Ken B said...

AA,
That is Canada speak for “we cannot blame the perpetrator.” An unkind person might think Tory is ODing on white guilt for political gain.

Michael K said...

Nothing like importing a million Muslims to add spice the the life of Toronto.

tcrosse said...

This is particularly upsetting to Torontonians because it's the sort of thing that they would expect only to happen in that shithole country south of the border.

n.n said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ann Althouse said...

"That is Canada speak for “we cannot blame the perpetrator.” An unkind person might think Tory is ODing on white guilt for political gain."

Yes, but I'm also hearing we have government institutions that are already set up to eliminate this problem (and the appearance that they don't work is just a little prejudice we need to deal with).

n.n said...

Unassimilated and likely unintegrated. Toronto needs to unmask its thinly veiled diversity.

mccullough said...

Stupid immigration policies. Just like the Somalis in the Twin Cities. Here’s your 21st Century Diversity.

Humperdink said...

How in the world did the latest shooter get a gun? And a handgun to boot? Isn't private firearm ownership virtually prohibited in the Great White North (cough)?

Comanche Voter said...

You invite guests with bad manners in--it's gonna be a little rough around the edges.

Unexpectedly of course.

wild chicken said...

Diversity is chaos.

Kirk Parker said...

Diversity + Proximity = War

Some deplorable guy said that.

tim maguire said...

I live about 2 miles from where the shootings took place, I shop at some of those businesses. About 10 people in my office live within a mile of me, and nobody was talking about it at work. None of my neighbors are making a big deal about it. Except for the traffic headaches caused by shutting down the Danforth for almost a full day, people are going about their lives as usual.

Toronto is not unraveling, even if certain politicians and journalists think there is gain to be had in saying otherwise.

Gordon Scott said...

Seriously, Canada has these events from time to time. The one time there was a guy with a gun, the event ended very quickly. He was a hero. But we must ignore that event and hope that our government agencies don't fall down on the job because they were prosecuting someone for not using preferred pronouns.

Kirk Parker said...

Humperdinck,

It's not *that* hard, if you're a decent law-abiding citizen and don't mind being restricted to obsolete types. But 10 to 15 rounds fired in quick succession sure sounds like a semi-auto handgun, which is every bit as hard to own legally as you imply.

Jim Gust said...

Why is no one admitting that this was muslim terrorism?

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

John Tory says:

You’ve heard me ask the question of why anybody would need to buy 10 or 20 guns, which they can lawfully do under the present laws. And that leads to another question we need to discuss: why does anyone in this city need to have a gun at all?

Quite right, Mr. Tory. Let's take away all the guns (all that we can find, anyway). Some of their owners, like the entire police force, the entire prison-guard force, and whatever is the equivalent of our Secret Service, ought to be pretty obvious. You have bodyguards, Mr. Tory? Make sure they're all unarmed. Because no one in Toronto needs a gun. Ever.

And this, Ann,

A government institution didn’t do what they were supposed to do, or they delayed because the people weren’t living in the right postal code[,]

is just code for (1) "This guy shoulda been locked up already anyway, even though no one who knew him seems to have anticipated what he would do -- let's quickly find the culprit and bring the unlucky worm to justice"; and (2) "Besides, he came from a neglected part of town, which is to say 'one where the distressingly-still-armed police are never policing enough, except when they're policing too much.'" Though, frankly, it's difficult to connect Greektown with "Faisal Hussain." I get the impression that the working view of the (again, distressingly-still-armed) cops is that, whatever caused this guy to go on a killing rampage, it can't possibly have had anything to do with religion. I mean, heck, I'm not sure he's even a Christian :-)

YoungHegelian said...

My brother got his PhD from University of Toronto, & lived there for 20 years. I have visited many times.

Toronto is waaaay too expensive for what it is, comparable in its costs to San Francisco or Manhattan. Its inhabitants are thus always under incredible economic pressures. The Canadian concept of "a mosaic, not a melting pot" sounds multi-culti in theory but in practice it often meant "we've got ours, you've got yours, & never the twain shall meet" with the old guard British descendants holding the high ground. There was a bottled up quality to the immigrant communities, & my brother feared that one day it would be released in an unpleasant fashion.

Toronto, which christened itself "Toronto The Good", wanted above all things to never be a violent, crime-ridden American city. It may be going that way in spite of itself.

dda6ga dda6ga said...

Poor Canucks don't now street violence. In my fair city this past weekend the body count was 7 dead and 44 wounded. Just an average Chicago summer weekend.

dda6ga dda6ga said...

know

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

They delayed because the people weren’t living in the right postal code.

Is this a reference to the idea that the authorities don't take crime in bad parts of town seriously, while they will instantly swarm for what my husband calls white lady in trouble? The cynical but maybe not untrue idea that on the good side of town you'll have forty officers for a kitten in a tree while people wait for hours for a unit when there's been a shooting on the bad side?

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Ann,

Yes, but I'm also hearing we have government institutions that are already set up to eliminate this problem (and the appearance that they don't work is just a little prejudice we need to deal with).

Whaddaya mean, "appearance"? Canada has "institutions," all right, but they are like similar ones everywhere -- they can't conceivably catch everyone before the fact. As for "prejudice," I'm not seeing it. All I can read into Tory's statement is that someone -- someone well down the chain of command, naturally -- dropped the ball, and this guy snuck, or blundered, or forthrightly walked, right on through, and two people are dead and many more wounded as a result. But, as usual, his first emphasis is on the inanimate object; only secondarily does he turn to the person wielding it.

Jack Wayne said...

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind part 1,006,123. It’s a funny kind of schadenfreude to realize that elite Western bureaucracies are all the same.

Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...

this is happening NOW?!?!
I thought the crocodile was supposed to eat us LAST !!!

Mike said...

Isn't private firearm ownership virtually prohibited in the Great White North (cough)?

I thought it was just the opposite, everyone is armed. Otherwise how do you subdue a rogue moose?

Jim at said...

Why is no one admitting that this was muslim terrorism?

To ask the question is to answer it.

Josephbleau said...

Toronto has the best titti bars around.

Leland said...

Sounds a lot like how the US IRS handles 501c3 applications.

rhhardin said...

The city is politically correct though. You can't have everything.

BarrySanders20 said...

Toronto has the best titti bars around.

Jason’s in Windsor was eye opening to this then 20 year old

YoungHegelian said...

@Josephbleau,

Toronto has the best titti bars around.

On one visit my then 63 yr old father wanted to go in the Zanzibar on Yonge St. & taled my then 61 yr old mother into going with him. To hear my mother tell the story, who got all flustered was the maitre d', who really didn't know what to do with this old fogey couple amid all the hoopla. He sat them down in a table in the far corner, my dad ordered a beer, & ogled the dancers for a bit before he had had enough & they went back to their hotel.

As for me, my occasion of sin in Toronto was the Boxing Day sales at A&A & Sam's Record Stores on Yonge Street. With the Boxing Day discount & the exchange rate in my favor, I'd often get LPs at 40% what I could get them in the US. Every Christmas visit, I'd blow at least $300 American at the sales.

Sal said...

When it happens here, it's our 'gun culture'. When it happens there, they scratch their heads.

R.J. Chatt said...

Even if the attack was motivated by jihad AKA Islamic terrorism, the Canadians are at fault for not doing enough to integrate the immigrant population. Just ask French President Macron, that's his line.

BUMBLE BEE said...

I remember about five years ago, ant-Israel Palestinian "protesters" in Toronto blockaded Hadassah house shouting at Jews that they should be thrown into ovens. All the while the police stood around doing nothing. This was during a period of criminalizing Anti-Islam speech, writing and news reporting as Hate Speech. See also Mark Stein Canadian prosecution. Kathy Shaidle documented Toronto PD tolerance of Muslim "street atrocities", finally she purchased a 12 ga. shotgun for protection. Google her for some insightful reports on Muslims in Canada/Toronto.

J. Farmer said...

Canada is instructive even without their recent errors of immigration. Nearly half the population of Quebec, Canada's second most populous province, does not want to live in an Anglophone state. Canada cannot even integrate the Québécois into their state.

holdfast said...

John Tory is a douche.

It’s not that hard to get a gun in Canada - not much harder than in states like NY and CT.

The biggest difference is that there is NO civilian carry of firearms in Canada. You can buy your Glock (with 10 round mag), and keep it at home in a safe, transport it to the range in a locked case (no stopping along the way), shoot it at the range, then take it back home.

Even most off-duty cops are not permitted to carry firearms.

In general Canada has low violent crime (though epic property crime) - the underclass (Native Indians) mostly just hurt themselves with booze and drugs, and the various organized crime groups are careful to only kill other known criminals.

But now they have a radical Islam problem and don’t know how to respond, so they blame guns and “general craziness”. Because otherwise they would have to examine their hollow mantra of “Diversity Uber Alles”, which might cause their heads to explode.

In addition to this shooting there was an attempt at a stabbing of a guard member at the Cenotaph in Ottawa this weekend.

BUMBLE BEE said...

BarrySanders20... WINDSOR BALLET, truly a fine cultural experience!

The Stones did an impromptu concert at Zanzibar back in the day.

rehajm said...

I only remember thier mayor who got plenty to eat at home.

rehajm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rehajm said...

Even most off-duty cops are not permitted to carry firearms.

Really? At the hotel in Chilliwack BC all the le there for training were carrying their service. Is ‘off duty’ a liberal policy?

rcocean said...

Canadians are pretty stoic and don't really get excited about anything, except Hockey.

You could probably kill off 10 percent of them, and the other 90% would say a few words and move on.

Sebastian said...

""Rattled by string of violent attacks, Toronto wonders if city is unraveling.""

No. LeBron moved to LA. Toronto is gonna be alright.

YoungHegelian said...

@rcocean,

You could probably kill off 10 percent of them

The Hosehead Holocaust.

Francisco D said...

Back in the 60's Toronto was considered a clean version of Chicago. It was boring, but nice. The main concern was dealing with the Quebecois who wanted an independent state. The French were really pissed off at the arrogance of the English.

The French Quarter of Montreal was like dining in Paris, except less English was spoken. I thought the French were assholes, until I was part of a consulting team (with our Toronto office) on a project in Montreal. The disdain that the English had for the French was obvious. Three of us entered a bullpen where the executive assistants for senior executives sat. The secretaries greeted us with "Bon Jour." I replied in kind with a pretty good accent. My English Toronto colleagues replied, "Hello."

SuzanneN said...

Another "known wolf": check it out:

https://pjmedia.com/trending/jihad-denial-in-toronto-hussain-was-a-known-wolf/

tshanks78 said...

I live in Toronto as well and like Tim Maguire said above nothing is unraveling. What a ridiculous article...I wonder Ann what led you to link to it. The complaints you higlighted in your comment are just not to be taken seriously at this point.

Michael K said...

Exposing the Muslim activist who invented the Mental health story.

More bullshit from the usual suspects.

It was provided by Mohammed Hashim, a full-time organizer for the Toronto & York Region Labour Council. Social media accounts belonging to Hashim show him heavily involved in supporting NDP candidates both federally and provincially in Ontario. He’s also described as a driving force behind the National Council of Canadian Muslims.

Michael K said...

The disdain that the English had for the French was obvious.

The disdain that is felt for French Canadians is also common in Maine.

I wonder why that could be? Minnesota Swedes tell jokes about Finns.

We told jokes about Polacks in Chicago. We wore work shoes with rough hide exteriors in high school and called them "polish gym shoes. The Polish kids did, too.

Known Unknown said...

Just part and parcel of living in a big city.

Ken B said...

“Minnesota Swedes tell jokes about Finns.”
Do the Finns notice?

Ken B said...

Tim
I had not noticed you were Canadian. I had noticed you were logical, grammatical, and amusing, so the lapse is mine ...

Roy Jacobsen said...

A government institution didn’t do what they were supposed to do, or they delayed because the people weren’t living in the right postal code."

You sure you want more government programs? 'cuz this is what more government programs looks like.

Darrell Harris said...

"Hey there, Toronto - miss me yet?"

- Rob Ford's Ghost

William said...

I don't know his motivation, but, since he is a Muslim, I don't see how you can arbitrarily rule out terrorism......If a shooter had a Confederate flag in his bedroom wall and shot up some minority neighborhood would you arbitrarily rule out racism as part of his motivation?

Bob Loblaw said...

Is this a reference to the idea that the authorities don't take crime in bad parts of town seriously, while they will instantly swarm for what my husband calls white lady in trouble?

From the police perspective it's far easier to police petty crimes in neighborhoods where people are generally law abiding, so the brass is always presented with a dilemma - do we try to take down serious criminals in neighborhoods where nobody wants our officers around, nobody will come forward to testify, and where we're more likely to lose people? Where the very presence of the police may incite the locals to cause trouble?

Or do we keep our officers in the nice neighborhoods, shopping districts and tourist attractions, only rolling in the bad neighborhoods when someone dies?

The latter option is the path of least resistance, and it leads to cities where the homicide clearance rate is 30% but you go straight to jail for being a well behaved drunk in a nice neighborhood. Jerry Pournelle used to call it "anarcho-tyranny".

Stephen Cooper said...

Michael K - where I lived, most of the Italian immigrants were from Sicily or the Naples area, stricken with poverty. They had been mocked in their own country by their richer Northern fellow Italian speakers long before they came here. Very few Polish people with good connections in Poland emigrated, it was mostly the Poles whose parents were poor and mistreated by the rich Poles who came here. Same with the Swedes, who were considered dumb for a while.

The Irish and Jewish experiences were different, pretty much every Irishman, smart or dumb, rich or poor, had a good reason to emigrate - they were dying in the millions. For similar reasons, almost all types of Jews had to leave Europe to keep the cowards there from killing their children. Thus, there are not a lot of dumb Irishman or dumb Jew jokes.


I get angry sometimes when people make ethnic jokes, unless they are really funny, like, very once in a while, poor leather faced ugly Don Rickles used to be. I have heard, in my life, maybe a thousand different ethnic jokes and almost every single person who tried to get a laugh out of the "dumb Polack" or "drunken Irishman" or "cheap Jew" or some other comical reduction in their bigoted stale ugly universe of humor had no idea of what life was like back in the day, before those people emigrated. The jokesters, with their idiotic cackling laughter, were no better than little Marfan syndrome lushes, entranced by the objectively and mimetically evil ignorance in their cold hearts, and completely unaware of why their laughter showed their idiocy. Mediocrities all.

Bob Loblaw said...

Even if the attack was motivated by jihad AKA Islamic terrorism, the Canadians are at fault for not doing enough to integrate the immigrant population. Just ask French President Macron, that's his line.

But the French are insistent that immigrants do assimilate, and the Canadians are not. In France they demand you learn French, go to secular French schools, and at least pay lip service to French culture.

In Canada they mumble about "multicultural patchwork" and try to solve the problem by punishing people who notice.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Toronto has long been an International City with a mixture of all the ethnic groups in street crowds. Very scary stuff at first sight, but they were doing it in style and in peace until the Jihadists reached critical mass under a stiff protection for their hate by anti-free speech codes that criminalize criticism.

Michael K said...

The jokesters, with their idiotic cackling laughter, were no better than little Marfan syndrome lushes, entranced by the objectively and mimetically evil ignorance in their cold hearts, and completely unaware of why their laughter showed their idiocy. Mediocrities all.

I think you are too sensitive. My mother used to say, "that's a shanty Irish trick."

My high school girlfriend was Polish and her grandmother did not speak English and did not like me because I was not Polish.

When I was in high school we all had Jewish girlfriends. Their fathers would buy them baseball tickets, and we all went through the nose jobs when the girls would have black eyes for two weeks. One of my girlfriends' father was a State Senator and she was told to get rid of that Goy boyfriend.

I was a member of the Young Mens' Jewish Council because they had a basketball court and the YMCA dd not.

Relax. Some of us grew up with ethnic neighborhoods.

Francisco D said...

"We told jokes about Polacks in Chicago.:

Everybody told Polack jokes in Chicago, even the Polacks.

After college, I took a management job with a famous retailer at their warehouse. Most of my direct reports were Polish. My best workers were older Polish women. My biggest jokesters were older Polish guys. I hated the job, but loved the people.

Stephen Cooper said...

Francisco D - your experience and mine were different, I guess.


I mean, I get what you are saying, but you are an elite guy who lived a real life and met real people.


Rickls and his ilk were Hollywood phonies who had no real ties to any ethnic community, they were not elite people, they were mediocrities, well-rewarded of course, but still .... mediocre, depressingly mediocre.

I exaggerate when I say that it makes me angry but it is kind of embarrassing, when you think of it, that so many people who know nothing about how many hundreds of years places like Poland and Sicily were full of civilized and intelligent people think they are great wits because they say dopey things. Dumb Polices! Did you hear about the wop who ...? All mediocrities. As if a single one of them could tell you the difference between Oxford in 1850 and Krakow or Palermo in 1850.

So I get your point, but I hope you get mine, too. And if you don't, no big deal. Still, when I think of a douchebag like Don Rickles - I mean, a great guy in many ways, and I would not be surprised if he had fought bravely in some war - but when I think of the poor little fat guy thinking he had the right to say the syllables 'dumb Polack', when there is not a chance in a million he was not , himself, a dopey midwit, who would never have been famous if he were actually intelligent, rather than simply in that zone of relative stupidity where successful comic careers flourish - that is when I think, hey, maybe, somewhere in the hundreds of years of our civilization, somebody should type out, at least once, the words "Don Rickles was funny but stupid and ultimately boring and disrespectful of people who were beyond his comprehension."

Michael McNeil said...

Growing up in Montana, people were aware of Polish jokes, but the real butt of most people (primarily kid)'s “ethnic” jokes were North Dakotans.

JohnJMac862 said...

Stephen Cooper - I read with interest your erudite remark.

Perhaps consider that your lament seems dated. The problem I see NOW is that we are too afraid to laugh together at the tendencies of our tribes.

Yesterday, I caught an impromptu ride at the airport from two Cuban-American buddies. The running joke was that once they crossed the border into my WASP-Y neighborhood that Trump would be waiting to deport them. They actually donned sombreros as they joke that Anglos think all Hispanics are the same. And so on.

THAT is the America I love. Where we laugh at each other.

Mike Bunge said...

Stephen Cooper, how can you be so amazingly ignorant when you are making your ignorant comments with a machine that LITERALLY allows you to access more information than any previous generation? I mean, Don Rickels has a Wikipedia page and everything.

Mike

Gahrie said...

Growing up in Montana, people were aware of Polish jokes, but the real butt of most people (primarily kid)'s “ethnic” jokes were North Dakotans.

I spent much of my youth in England, so I grew up making fun of the French and the Irish.

exiledonmainstreet said...

I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of Polish-Americans and they told Polack jokes all the time. Nobody got their undies in a bundle, nobody needed a safe space. When I was in England in the 80's, I found they told the same jokes, except all the Polish jokes were Irish ones.

Now the dumb Polack jokes are dumb blonde jokes. It's still OK to mock a certain segment of the white female population. I'm sure it was the evil, jealous brunette bitches who started that.

I just heard a blonde joke today. A blonde went to a comedy club where the headliners were a ventriloquist and his dummy. The comedian started telling a string of blonde jokes and the blonde became more and more irritated. Finally, she stood up and shouted at the stage:

"You bastard! I am so offended by your disgusting, hurtful jokes about me and other women who are called bimbos and idiots just because of the color of our hair! That is so bigoted and hurtful and I demand an apology!"

The abashed ventriloquist said, "Lady, if I offended you, I'm really sorry...."

The blonde yelled back, "I wasn't talking to you! I was talking to that little shit on your lap!"

Francisco D said...

Mike Royko was a Chicago Sun Times columnist with a big following. He wrote about life, softball and Chicago politics. He was ironic, self-derogating, sarcastic, funny and clever.

I recall a column where he exclaimed that Chicago was the best city for ethnic jokes because of it's ethnic diversity. However, there was one group for which he knew no mildly derogatory nickname - Norwegians.

Coming from a (maternal) Norwegian household, I have to agree. I have heard about Polacks, Frogs, Dagos, WASPs, Paddies, etc. I have never heard a nickname for Norwegians.

Uff Da!

Bob Loblaw said...

My high school girlfriend was Polish and her grandmother did not speak English and did not like me because I was not Polish.

My grandparents immigrated from Germany, and when his daughter brought home the man who would end up being her husband all my grandfather could say was "But... he's a Polack!"

Bob Loblaw said...

Coming from a (maternal) Norwegian household, I have to agree. I have heard about Polacks, Frogs, Dagos, WASPs, Paddies, etc. I have never heard a nickname for Norwegians.

Swedes were sometimes referred to as "square heads".

Michael McNeil said...

I have never heard a nickname for Norwegians.

In the old days there was “Norse.”

Roger Sweeny said...

""Rattled by string of violent attacks, Toronto wonders if city is unraveling.""

No. LeBron moved to LA. Toronto is gonna be alright.


They did get Kawhi Leonard--but only for a year until he moves to LA to be with LeBron.

My name goes here. said...

Detroit North.

Gordon Scott said...

Norski.

Stephen Cooper said...

Mike - well played, Mike. I get it (I got it?)

Rickles was, of course, a hilarious guy, one of the few professional comics who were funnier off stage than on stage ..... Still ...

me and Rickles have the exact same number of military medals. His, Navy, mine, the former USAAF. I used to hang out with a friend of a friend of his, back in the 70s.

I don't need no fucking wikipedia!