July 22, 2018

"Carter Page on Sunday called the accusations against him detailed in the foreign surveillance warrant application released by the FBI 'so ridiculous.'"

"'You talk about misleading the courts, it's just so misleading... It's literally a complete joke.'"

CNN reports on the interview that was on CNN's "State of the Union."

I have not attempted to read the long document that was released, but one of the commenters in last night café, Yancey Ward, did:
Believe it or not, I read the FISA applications in less than an hour. It is 90%+ redacted, so there are about 40 pages of actual material. The bulk of the material that is redacted appears to be nothing related to Page at all — it appears in procedures, minimization, and is connect otherwise to general descriptions of what Russia is thought to do in such areas- in other words, classified means and methods. Indeed, the only portions that are unredacted are the parts related to Page.

Here is the absolute truth — all of the applications rely on the Steele Dossier and the Isikoff story from September 2016 — a story that Steele himself was the source for. Those are the only two pieces of "evidence" the FBI supplied to the FISA court that could reasonably be inferred to assign probable cause that Page was a knowing Russian agent. The only other things mentioned in regards to Page are that he lived in Russia for a time, travels there sometimes as an energy consultant, and was approached by Russian agents in the past, one of whom Page himself helped to trap and convict by serving as a willing FBI informant. That last part is incongruous with designating him as a Russian agent, but is included any way as an attempt, not to exonerate him, but to tar him.

Also, if you do a page by page comparison of all four applications, there is little material added from one to the other —if you compared the applications side by side, practically every redacted section is identical in shape and length and page designations. In other words, in each of the renewals, it is apparent that the FBI got jackshit from the surveillance — there was nothing they could add to each application, and so just mostly copied the first application serially.

In addition, none of the applications told the court that the Clinton Campaign is the one who paid Steele and FusionGPS — not a single time. Indeed, the only mention in all the applications of "Candidate 2" is in the very last renewal, and that section wasn't discussing who hired the law firm, but was instead discussing some letters Page wrote criticizing the Clinton Campaign. The FBI knew who hired the law firm — they knew Steele (Source 1) was hired by Glenn Simpson (aka US citizen), and they knew Simpson was hired by a law firm- i.e. the FBI knew which law firm and thus it was the Clinton Campaign. The applications studiously avoid mentioning "Candidate 2" at every point they describe the chain of cutouts- always ending with "law firm".

Finally, it clear the FBI confirmed nothing of the Steele Dossier. At no point does it appear that Steele revealed his sources to the FBI- they are always described as "subsources"- this is FBI legalese for "we don't even know the name so that we can designate them by number".

The House Intelligence Republican memo was correct on all counts. The Democrat memo was extremely misleading — there is nothing else other than the Steele Dossier and the story Steele sourced to Isikoff.
I don't have the patience to read the thing myself, but that shows why government officials may chose to write long, evasive documents. Let me know if there's anything about Yancey Ward's description that you think is wrong and tell me exactly why. And don't be verbose! I'm suspicious of verbosity. It makes me feel that you are hiding something.

310 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 310 of 310
Achilles said...

Inga said...

Footnote on all four FISA applications

LOL

“Notice the footnote here is the FBI directly alerting the FISC that this news article is based on Source #1's underlying reporting. This is the exact opposite of them asserting the news article is corroborating Source 1's info”.

LOL


So Inga's position is that the FBI did tell the FISC that the Steele dossier was a fabrication paid for by the DNC and Hillary campaign with no other corroborating evidence and the FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign was granted anyway.

Let that sink in.


I told you a year ago you would be running from the Russian collusion story.

Here we are.

I have been right about everything.

You have been wrong about everything.

Have fun with that.

Bruce Hayden said...

“That's the thing: Comey and Sally Yates and Rosenstein and McCabe all attested the truth and accuracy of the applications (including renewals), which declared that "Carter Page is a foreign agent." Apart from the lies about verifying the accuracy of the Steele Memo and lies of omission about the provenance of the Steele Memo and his reliability, this is a clear smoking gun felony.”

I still don’t see Comey and Rosenstein as dishonest. Just dupes. I think that it is much more likely that Yates, and esp McCabe, were in on the plot. I question Yates because she was apparently the one who put the DoJ NSD and FBI NSB off limits to the DoJ IG and greatly weakened the FISA minimization requirements. McCabe because it was in his office, at that $70k conference room table that the “insurance policy” (almost assuredly including these FISA warrants) was discussed and likely plotted. Think that Rosenstein and Comey depended on their underlings to be hones t(they weren’t) and did like the FISC did, signed when they didn’t see any glaring problems with the FISA warrant applications. We shall, hopefully, someday, see.

robother said...

So, steve urhyou think the redactions somehow verify that Carter Page was in fact a Russian agent, even while he was the FBI's main witness as of March 2016 (when the first surveillance began) against a Russian spy? No doubt the redactions also show the whereabouts of Judge Crater, how the steel melted in the Twin Towers and the actual date of the Apocalypse.

Achilles said...

steve uhr said...

How can you tell if the warrant establishes prob cause w/o reviewing the redactions?

Because this warrant wasn't produced in a vacuum.

1. The DOJ illegally withheld it for months from congressional investigators.

2. They have repeatedly lied about the application.

3. And the contents.

4. And the sources.

5. They have illegally leaked hundreds if not thousands of documents. If they thought it would help they would have leaked the redactions.

6. They released this on Saturday afternoon.


Anyone with a room temperature IQ can see what the truth is at this point.

Michael K said...

Of course, there is still the story about Trump decamping from Trump Tower the day after Mike Rogers visited the Trump Campaign in a meeting he didn't inform his bosses in the Obama Administration he was going to make.

That was a big moment in all this. Rogers was punished by Obama, also a tell.

I see Inga is heading for 200. Now all we need to Ritmo to really tank the thread.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

FISA Judge was warned about the motivation of discrediting Trump.

The FISA Judge was well aware, nothing was hidden from him. The argument that the FISA application ommited info is bogus.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

The more Trump's guys tease the media and the public with the more they scream," Take it off, take it all off." Our PT Barnum producer can sure put on a show for the audience.

And there is always a coming attractions peek somewhere in each act. That is working. If he dumped it all out at once the public would go catatonic.

Next week we get to see the Kenyan CIA plant and his faithful handler, VJ, being revealed as the ones who orderd the Intelligence Community to destroy everything connected to Trump. But Admiral Rogers says," damn the torpedos, full speed ahead."



mockmook said...

I'm sure Trump can't un-redact everything without compromising SOMETHING.

So, the Dems will use whatever is left redacted to claim that that is where the "evidence" is that makes this all kosher.

Achilles said...

Bruce Hayden said...

I still don’t see Comey and Rosenstein as dishonest. Just dupes. I think that it is much more likely that Yates, and esp McCabe, were in on the plot.

Asserting this about Rosenstein is Laughable. Comey is clearly a partisan hack at best and his actions were specifically coordinated to get Mueller installed as a special prosecutor.

These people have been working together for decades.

For example Rosenstein was personally involved in whitewashing Uranium One.



" 14. Notice something about these cases? None ever saw the light of day, where testimony would be made public. They were all 'disappeared'. Now with that in mind, consider the following bombshell facts:
Imperator_Rex (@Imperator_Rex3) January 14, 2018

15. ALL of these cases were prosecuted by the same duo, or combination thereof - Rod Rosenstein & Andrew Weissman. Yes, you read that correctly.
Imperator_Rex (@Imperator_Rex3) January 14, 2018

16. The FBI officer assigned to each case? Why, one Andrew McCabe. Yes - you also read that correctly. Your eyes are NOT deceiving you.
Imperator_Rex (@Imperator_Rex3) January 14, 2018

17. Oh - here's another interesting coincidence : they were ALL assigned to the same judge - one Judge Theodore Chuang, an Obama appointee. I hope you have not fallen off your chair yet, it gets worse: https://t.co/ljlnk0kI4M
Imperator_Rex (@Imperator_Rex3) January 14, 2018"

Achilles said...

Inga said...

FISA Judge was warned about the motivation of discrediting Trump.

The FISA Judge was well aware, nothing was hidden from him. The argument that the FISA application ommited info is bogus.



Inga thinks this makes spying on political opponents ok.

Don't worry.

We see you. We see who you are. What you are.

Darkisland said...

So Inga,

No thoughts on Dmitri Alperovitch?

John Henry

Drago said...

One of my favorite FISA screwups is on page 2 Carter Page is literally called an agent of Russia (and apparently had been one for awhile).

Then on page 4 Page is called a recruitment target for Russia!

LOL

The FBI is literally arguing that Russias supposedly long-ago recruited agent was being actively recruited by...Russia!

Huh?

Too funny.

Its clear these Keystone Kops East German-like domestic spy buddies truly believed their nonsense would never see the light of day.

Chuck said...

Michael K said...
"Of course, there is still the story about Trump decamping from Trump Tower the day after Mike Rogers visited the Trump Campaign in a meeting he didn't inform his bosses in the Obama Administration he was going to make."

That was a big moment in all this. Rogers was punished by Obama, also a tell.


What in the world are you saying? That, "yes, indeed, the Obama Administration illegally bugged Trump Tower and the moment that Trump found out about it they moved all of the sensitive Trump Transition operations out..."? Is that what you are saying? And yet Trump is now the President of the United States, with full control over the leadership of the CIA, the NSA, and the FBI. But yet, no one can reveal what happened back when Trump Tower was allegedly wiretapped? Trump can't or won't be any more specific, about a monstrous, McCarthyite (at a minimum!) Watergate-or-worse bugging of political opponents? A breathtaking level of illegality... but we haven't been told anything about it?



Is that the story?

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“We see you. We see who you are. What you are.”

We see you too and you’re one of the bigger idiots.

LOL

mockturtle said...

Since nearly 100% of all FISA applications are approved, one has to wonder if they even get read.

Paco Wové said...

"So, the Dems will use whatever is left redacted to claim that that is where the "evidence" is that makes this all kosher."

The Collusion of the Gaps.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Why wasn't Page charged with being a Russian agent?
Two possibilities (there may be others), neither them good for our republican form of government.
-Page was not a Russian agent, and the FISA warrant was just an excuse to spy on the Trump campaign.
-Page was a Russian agent, but in defending himself of the charge, Page's lawyers would expose that the FISA warrant was just an excuse to spy on Trump, so the charge was never made.

alan markus said...

Mike K said: Now all we need to Ritmo to really tank the thread.

Next shift change at McDonalds coming up in about 5 minutes.

tim in vermont said...

How can you tell if the warrant establishes prob cause w/o reviewing the redactions?

The truth is always in the redactions, then it turns out they redacted the price of a conference table or some message that makes the prosecution look even worse.

Ray - SoCal said...

I don't know where this is going to end up.

I would be surprised if anyone ended up in jail, as much as I wish it. The system seems to protect higher ups in government, and those of the right political thought.

What does seem to happen is ruined reputations, retirements, and quitting.

I may be wrong. The amount of vitriol and breaking of the law, with the idea the ends justifies the means, directed at preventing and hobbling Donald Trump's Presidency may create a blow back that makes members of the deep state end up in jail. Right now the only people convicted, have been Trump supporters. And the crimes of those opposing him have been MUCH worse.

Gretchen said...

Here is the bottom line, they wanted Trump. They didn't like his stance on Russia, because if Trump were to have friendly relations with Russia it made the Hillary state department look all the worse after their goofy cow-towing to Putin et al.

The most surprising thing of all is that the application appears political. Very political. I would think candidate 1 and candidate 2 would make the judge very, very nervous to approve it. They were clear they were spying on a campaign. Page was named, the judge could google to see which party he was with if he didn't know. The judge should be impeached.

If the Trump campaign was notified that Page was under investigation, that would make this fine. If the Hillary camping were infiltrated to see if the email was obtained internally I might think differently, however, for a judge to knowingly allow surveillance on a political campaign, of the opposite party in power is Banana republic stuff.

Ray - SoCal said...

Trump has minimal control over the Dept. of Justice, FBI, CIA, and other intelligence agencies.

Unfortunately Democrats in the Senate, along with some GOP members, have slowed down the confirmation process to a crawl, so there are a lot candidates awaiting confirmation.

Plus, Mueller's investigation has made control of the Justice Dept and FBI a sensitive issue. The slow walking and covering up (CYA) by both on their actions against Trump have been astonishing.

Can Trump unclassify stuff?
Yes.

Would it be politically smart to do that now?
No.

The positive is the longer this goes on, the more stuff comes out the deep state has been hiding. This FISA application is a perfect example of that. And the more stuff that comes out, the more politicized Mueller's investigation appears and it makes public what was done against Trump by US Government Agencies, illegally.

>And yet Trump is now the President of the United States, with full control over the
>leadership of the CIA, the NSA, and the FBI.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“So Inga's position is that the FBI did tell the FISC that the Steele dossier was a fabrication paid for by the DNC and Hillary campaign with no other corroborating evidence and the FISA warrant to spy on the Trump campaign was granted anyway.

Let that sink in.”

LOL. A “fabrication”? Who says? You.

LOL.

David Begley said...

The way this can play out is Trump declassifies a bunch of documents. The public outcry is overwhelming. Sessions is forced to appoint a Special Counsel.

If US Attorney John Huber was doing something, we'd have heard about it by now. No grand jury. No targets. Nothing.

Trump is going to get his revenge on these people. Donald is Michael in The Godfather. Trump will settle all scores on this. Comey is Mo Green.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Can Trump unclassify stuff?
Yes.”

So why doesn’t he do it? Maybe he wouldn’t look so good in the declassified info.

“Would it be politically smart to do that now?
No.”

He won’t because he’s a coward and he’s probably afraid of what it would reveal.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Trump is going to get his revenge on these people. Donald is Michael in The Godfather. Trump will settle all scores on this. Comey is Mo Green.”

Good grief, lol. What imaginations you folks have.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Inga,

Why won't you talk about Dmitri Alperovitch?

What are you trying to hide?

John Henry

Anonymous said...

Thanks to Yancey Ward. From everything else I have seen so far his original analysis is spot on.

I watched the McCarthy clip and the most important I thought he made was that the FISA application was submitted based not on facts that the FBI claimed and had confirmed, but upon hearsay two or three times removed ( Steele's summary of things Russians were told by other Russians). Even the the NYT admits this.

"The application shows that the F.B.I. told the court it believed that the person who hired Mr. Steele was looking for dirt to discredit Mr. Trump. But it added that based on Mr. Steele’s previous reporting history with the F.B.I., in which he had “provided reliable information,” the bureau believed his information cited in the application “to be credible.” (NYT)

McCarthy ridicules this as a basis for the warrants because the FBI is supposed to have examined the "facts", did not do so,then affirmed that they did on the application.

One of the the funnier parts of the NYT article is toward the end where it says that the applications were signed under two administrations (therefore must be legitimate). Same crooked people who had not been fired yet.

Anonymous said...

@David Begley I think Huber is working and I think he is doing it right by keeping absolute silence about what he is doing. I may be wrong, but I am keeping the faith. We have gotten so used to unprofessional investigating that it is hard to believe that one carried out by the book can actually be going on. I suspect that's why Sessions went with a guy in Utah. I think the Little Rock people are still at work too.

Anonymous said...

The FBI/DOJ needs a thorough house cleaning, but now is not the time - too good a theme for the Dems who right now have nothing. Will Trump eventually play hardball? Yes I think he will.

Kevin said...

Now Inga will have us believe she isn't just cutting and pasting from somewhere else. She's actually reading and legally interpreting the footnotes.

Mary Beth said...

Inga said...

Yancy Ward was wrong on all counts. It’s [sic] appears that the warrant was granted based on more than just the dossier, every last one of them.


If you're relying on sources such as Think Progress, it looks like what they are calling evidence is the fact that Page lived in Russia at one time.

Do you think being in a given location is enough evidence to get a warrant to spy on someone?

Kevin said...

[Trump] won’t [declassify documents] because he’s a coward and he’s probably afraid of what it would reveal.

No Trump's not declassifying them because the Dems would scream "obstruction of justice" by making it harder for Mueller and Rosenstein to force improperly-charged people around Trump to testify against him.

He's forced to wait until the witch hunt is over before he shows the country how utterly ridiculous this has all been.

You think Stozk gets all smarmy in front of Congress if the real truth were released? No, he'd take the fifth and never speak. You think Comey and others would go on the record knowing Trump has declassified everything? No way.

Let them all preen around like they're innocent on TV and then declassify the whole thing once Muller's done indicting Russian Generals who will never face trial.

Without Carter Page, what is this whole thing anyway?

FullMoon said...


All we need now is Ritmo to tell us how this all relates to global warming.
And Drs prescribing opioids for chronic pain

Sebastian said...

Question for Wray: In 2016, the FBI affirmed that Page was a Russian agent, but as of 2018, he has not yet been arrested. What accounts for your dereliction of duty?

wholelottasplainin said...

Inga said...
“Can Trump unclassify stuff?
Yes.”

So why doesn’t he do it? Maybe he wouldn’t look so good in the declassified info.

“Would it be politically smart to do that now?
No.”

He won’t because he’s a coward and he’s probably afraid of what it would reveal.

*************

So....if the redacted stuff would be bad for Trump, why did the foot-dragging DOJ not reveal it long ago to embarrass him? Or not reveal it now as a result of the FOIA request?

FullMoon said...

All this is very interesting. When Trump gets two more supreme court justices, game over. Left been using lawfare to dismiss the will of the people.

As far as Russian interference, the whole claim is they sow discord by propaganda. Look who is most affected, running around with pussy hats, calling for republicans to be chased from restaurants, attempted assassinations, mainstream businesses and media showing pictures of Trump being decapitated or hanged.

These are the simple minded, easily led on Democrats team.

Mike said...

Yancey Ward may have read the document, but he clearly didn't understand it. Everything he says is wrong: On page 16, the FBI specifically tells the judges about the political nature of the Steel Dossier but why they consider it reliable. On page 22, they say the Isikoff article was not used to confirm the Steele information but Page's denial of working with Russia. They specifically tell the judge that the basis of the Isikoff article was Steel's dossier. Much of the redacted information is specifically about Page's relationship with Russia, something that was completely unrelated to the Steele dossier.

What we see in here completely destroys the Nunes memo and every other conspiracy theory about the FISA court.

Michael K said...

I see the fool is indefatigable in her idiotic comments.

Over 200 and climbing.

When McDonalds' shift ends, we are headed for 400.

Yancey has done a good job.

A breathtaking level of illegality... but we haven't been told anything about it?

Chuck, they are holding off until you get your pearls ready to clutch.

Jeeez!

Michael K said...

Do we have a new troll named Mike ?

Page was an FBI informant in 2016, you fool !

Kevin said...

What we see in here completely destroys the Nunes memo and every other conspiracy theory about the FISA court.

Tell us more, Mike. Like how the FBI terminated their working relationship with Steele for being unreliable and then forgot to go back to the FISA court to let them know their only source had just been flushed.

Stuff like that.

Kevin said...

What we see in here completely destroys the Nunes memo and every other conspiracy theory about the FISA court.

Also it's not completely destroys. It's COMPLETELY DESTROYS!!!!!

You must use all caps and many exclamation points to demonstrate the utter destruction to those who need it to keep from curling into a little ball on the floor.

Drago said...

I see that Russia has just scored a try against Samoa in the World Rugby Sevens match in San Francisco.

Just add that to all the other Trump crimes for which he must be impeached.

Michael K said...

I just watched a clip from Fox News Sunday and was reminded of why I no longer watch any Sunday shows. That used to be the only TV I watched.

It's interesting to watch the hysteria build. "Mike" here is an example of the hysterics.

Bay Area Guy said...

Hillary-Stork in 2020!

AdamSchiff = AG

Bernie Sanders = Sec of Treasury

Bowe Bergdahl = Sec of Defense

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortes = UN Ambassador

Michael Avennati = SCOTUS

tcrosse said...

To think that all this effort was bent to secure the election of that pathetic creature wrapped in a shower curtain at OZYfest. What a waste !

langford peel said...

The fact that this was released on a Saturday afternoon in July tells you all you need to know about how this effects the witch hunt.

They are hoping that it will bury the truth of the Deep State attempt at a coup against the duly elected President of the United States.

Michael K said...

I just walked past the TV and saw Trey Gowdy proving once more why I don't trust him.

I wish I could be optimistic about this thing but the stupidity on display is just staggering.

StephenFearby said...

Yancey Ward said...@2:14 PM

"...Of course, there is still the story about Trump decamping from Trump Tower the day after Mike Rogers visited the Trump Campaign in a meeting he didn't inform his bosses in the Obama Administration he was going to make. That suggests strongly that Rogers warned Trump he and his team were under inappropriate surveillance (at least in Rogers' opinion)."

Trump shortly after tweeted that he was "wiretapped". Trump specifically put this word (wiretapped) in quotation marks, his Twitter shorthand for any kind of electronic surveillance (not just wiretapping phone lines).

A very well-documented, in-depth analysis of the Rogers connection by the CTH:

Operation Condor – How NSA Director Mike Rogers Saved The U.S. From a Massive Constitutional Crisis…January 5, 2018

"...I’m calling the back-story to the 2016 FISA 702(16)(17) political corruption by the Obama administration “Operation Condor”. Those of you familiar with the film “Three Days of The Condor” will note how the real-life storyline almost mirrors the Hollywood film. For the real-life version, NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers plays the role of “Condor”.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/05/operation-condor-how-nsa-director-mike-rogers-saved-the-u-s-from-a-massive-constitutional-crisis/

What seems largely forgotten (and would be interesting to learn what they were about) are all those FISA warrant applications that were turned down in 2016:

"...Newly released data by the US Courts show that the Washington DC.-based Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA court) rejected nine applications during the final year of the Obama administration's tenure.

It's the largest number of requests the FISA court has denied in its entire four-decade history.

By comparison, the court announced at its last year's count that it didn't reject any government surveillance requests, which historically is not irregular."

https://www.zdnet.com/article/in-obamas-final-year-us-secret-court-denied-record-number-of-surveillance-requests/

Drago said...

Coming on the heels the dems going full sicialist, abolish ICE, no borders, violence against Trumpies, its cool to let European nations not pay their fair share, its cool that the US loses all Trade battles, MS13 is a fantastic bunch of guys, etc, spying on domestic political opponents will fit right in.

LLR Chuck is going to have to work overtime to help get his dems across the finish line!

robother said...

I am waiting for Mike (or Inga) to explain how the FBI and DOJ could state in 2016 that Page "is" a foreign agent, even as they were relying on him as their primary witness against a Russian spy (who he turned in to them). That seems more like the kind of positive statement that a FISA Court would rely upon, and that is demonstrably perjured (i.e., that they did NOT believe it to be true at the time they made the affidavit).

Bruce Hayden said...

“Yancey Ward may have read the document, but he clearly didn't understand it. Everything he says is wrong: On page 16, the FBI specifically tells the judges about the political nature of the Steel Dossier but why they consider it reliable. On page 22, they say the Isikoff article was not used to confirm the Steele information but Page's denial of working with Russia. They specifically tell the judge that the basis of the Isikoff article was Steel's dossier. Much of the redacted information is specifically about Page's relationship with Russia, something that was completely unrelated to the Steele dossier”

How do you know what was redacted? Another Rep Schiff leak? There is, frankly, no legal way that you could know this information. None, unless you are employed by the DoJ with a Need To Know.

“What we see in here completely destroys the Nunes memo and every other conspiracy theory about the FISA court.”

Specifically, what do you base that on. Please show your work, with Page numbers in both documents. Or, are you pulling an Inga, jumping straight to the conclusion that you found on a fetid leftist site, like ThinkProgress?

Anonymous said...

Here's a short, and good piece, that adds to Yancey's analysis. LINK.

Paco Wové said...

Reading the warrants, what strikes me most is the extent to which published newspaper "analysis" is presented as though it were data gathered via intelligence activities, rather than just some partisan guy writing in a newspaper.

wildswan said...

Yancey got it right. The FBI used the Steele dossier and they vouched for the dossier. They told the court that in the course of digging for dirt on Candidate 1 Steele found good information. The information was IN The DOSSIER. The court should accept the dossier information because the FBI said Steele was reliable. The FBI leaders put the reputation of the FBI on the line on behalf of the dossier. And the dossier was partisan junk. So what does that make the FBI at the top? What does that make James Comey?

Michael K said...

Operation Condor – How NSA Director Mike Rogers Saved The U.S. From a Massive Constitutional Crisis…January 5, 2018

Don't tell Chuck. He is on a roll.

Anonymous said...

Alan Dershowitz -no conservative- on Fox this morning about this.

Rusty said...


Blogger steve uhr said...
"How can you tell if the warrant establishes prob cause w/o reviewing the redactions?"

They don't need probably cause. They just need a plausable storey.

StephenFearby said...

“What we see in here completely destroys the Nunes memo and every other conspiracy theory about the FISA court.”

Bryan York begs to differ:

Washington Examiner
FISA warrant application supports Nunes memo
July 22, 2018 05:30 PM

"...The bottom line is that, whatever the criticism it has received, the Nunes memo was almost entirely accurate. The release of the FISA application supports that view."

York goes through each of the 13 paragraphs of the Nunes memo. The most amusing one:

"...The ninth paragraph:

b) Steele's numerous encounters with the media violated the cardinal rule of source handling -- maintaining confidentiality -- and demonstrated that Steele had become a less than reliable source for the FBI.

That is accurate. In the initial FISA application, the FBI argued that Steele had not leaked to the media. In later applications, the bureau admitted Steele had leaked but maintained that he was still credible because he only leaked after providing the dossier allegations."

Given that neither Steele NOR the FBI had independent knowledge of the credibility of the original Russian sources for the dossier, that's a hoot!

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Please show your work, with Page numbers in both documents. Or, are you pulling an Inga, jumping straight to the conclusion that you found on a fetid leftist site, like ThinkProgress?”

Excuse me? I didn’t quote or refer to one word from Think Progress. Your analysis sounds like it comes straight out of some rightist rag instead of being well reasoned. Do you know what was redacted? No you don’t. You know no more than anyone else and yet you make claims that the FISA warrant what obtained by fraudulent means. You have no evidence that is was. The excerpts from the application I posted proved what I said, that the judge was made aware of the dossier being connected to a political candidate who was seeking to discredit Trump. Nothing was hidden from the FISA judges, despite your guesstimate.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“And the dossier was partisan junk. So what does that make the FBI at the top? What does that make James Comey?”

And how do you know this?

Francisco D said...

"Fucking Trumpist trashtalk."

Chuckles:

Maxine is what we all need to call you. You resemble her intelligence, integrity and sincerity.

You are members of The Resistance that will guarantee a conservative victory in 2018.

Thanks babe.

Love and kisses.

Birkel said...

Royal ass Inga believes that if she is not quoting Think Progress then she must be believed.

Meanwhile, the FBI relied on the unproven Steele bull shit memo to get FISC-approved warrants to surveil US citizens. Inga believes the 4th Amendment is bull shit.

Gk1 said...

Trump needs to declassify all this shit. End of story. I hope the FBI is goddamned embarrassed. This will be the only satisfaction or possible punishment they will ever feel. There is no reason to spare any of these pricks at this point. If Trump doesn't do this I have to wonder what they did find on him since it's obvious they were spying on him. I have a hard time believing Trump has the temperment to "play the long game" and may simply have his hands tied because blowing the whole lid off may not be cost free.

Narayanan said...

@Gk1, et Al,
So we have Mexican Standoff aka
In effect checks and balances = implied threats of mutually assured destruction.

steve uhr said...

Drago Your comment at 3:39 either reflects your intentional deception or your lack of reading comprehension skills. There is no inconsistency between page 2 and 4. Page 4 doesn't say that Russia was actively recruiting Page at the time of the fisa application. It says Page "has been the subject of targeted recruitment ..." Stick with the facts next time.

Sebastian said...

Let's review.

1. The FBI says Page was an agent of a foreign power and also says he was being targeted for recruitment.
2. The FBI says Page was an agent of a foreign power but it never arrested him.
3. The FBI says the information against Page derives from a document created for a party adverse to a certain candidate but does not identify Hillary Clinton and her campaign as the source.
4. The FBI vouches for Steele's reliability but the unredacted portions of the application show no evidence of independent verification of his claims. (NB: Comey himself later called the dossier unverified.)
5. The FISA statute permits surveillance of U.S. citizens only when other means are insufficient but nothing in the unredacted portions of the application makes this case with regard to Page.
6. Renewals of FISC-authorized surveillance require new evidence but nothing in the unredacted portions of the applications shows any new evidence.
7. The most plausible interpretation of the redacted portions (by Yancey Ward) suggests that they do not address the merits of the case against Page.

Four issues are out there:

1. What were the judges doing, and why? What should and can be done about them?
2. What did the FBI actually do with its surveillance authority? How far did it go in bugging Trump and his campaign's communications, how much info on Trump did it collect, where is this info, and who has access to it?
3. How much does Trump himself currently know? How will his knowledge affect his decisions about next steps?
4. Which actions by which officials rise to the level of prosecutable crimes, and will they in fact be prosecuted?

Jupiter said...

wildswan said...
"The court should accept the dossier information because the FBI said Steele was reliable. The FBI leaders put the reputation of the FBI on the line on behalf of the dossier."

Note that at the time the FBI was vouching for Steele's reliability, they had already fired him because he had passed information to reporters after they had told him not to.

Michael K said...

The fool keeps telling lies. So does the Associated Press.

I don't know if that dishonest behavior by a major news source excuses Inga's stupidity but it sure makes the media that uses AP look stupid.

The AP seems to suggest that there is some inconsistency between Page’s denial of being an “agent of a foreign power” and his claim, back in 2013, to be an “informal adviser” to certain Russians. Any such suggestion is entirely false.

The phrase “agent of a foreign power” has a specific meaning. It is defined at 50 U.S.C. §1801(b)(2)(E). An “agent of a foreign power” is one who “knowingly aids or abets any person,” or “knowingly conspires with any person,” to “[engage] in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of a foreign power,” or “pursuant to the direction of an intelligence service or network of a foreign power, knowingly [engage] in any other clandestine intelligence activities for or on behalf of such foreign power, which activities involve or are about to involve a violation of the criminal statutes of the United States,” or “knowingly [engage] in sabotage or international terrorism, or activities that are in preparation therefor, for or on behalf of a foreign power.”

Obviously, these are serious charges. In its FISA application, the FBI expressed confidence that Carter Page was an “agent of a foreign power.” But he wasn’t. We know that for certain, because if there were even even the faintest hint of evidence after months of Democratic Party surveillance, Bob Mueller would have charged him. Carter Page is innocent, and the FBI’s assurances to the FISA court were false. You would never learn this from the AP’s biased account, however.

In this context, the AP’s statement that Page has never been charged with a crime, “but” has been interviewed by the FBI, is willfully misleading. It implies that being interviewed is evidence of guilt, whereas, in the present context, the fact that the FBI and Bob Mueller could come up with nothing against Page means that he is entirely innocent.


Oh well, nobody expects Inga to know anything.

Michael K said...

Page 4 doesn't say that Russia was actively recruiting Page at the time of the fisa application. It says Page "has been the subject of targeted recruitment ..." Stick with the facts next time.

Reading comprehension is good.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

What lie have I told, Michael?

Sebastian said...

One more thing, if I may address my own question: "What did the FBI actually do with its surveillance authority?"

There's a chance that the answer is, not much. The FBI may have bugged Page's phone and "wiretapped" Trump Tower and so on, but then didn't get anything interesting. After Trump took office, further bugging may have seemed dicy. Whether they stretched Page-related surveillance to include Trumpists after Page was cut from the campaign, and particularly after January 20, 2017, is, as far as I know, not known.

Consider the dog-that-didn't bark possibility: if there were a mass of embarrassing info, Russia-related or not, it would have leaked by now (don't think Stormy etc. qualifies). If they had any juicy info to support the FISA renewals, they probably would have provided it (leaving aside the redactions issue). On the other hand, if the FBI did very little, McCabe and Strzok could have used their inaction as exculpatory evidence, but they didn't. At this point, we just don't know.

Michael K said...

Too many to count, fool.

Try adding up what you said that was not a lie. Easier.

Here is a primer.

That is the true purpose of this charade: not the truth about “Russian meddling,” not alleged wrong doing by Paul Manafort in 2005, not a lack of candor under FBI questioning by George Papadopoulos (who?) or Michael Flynn. The one true purpose (in addition to the welcome subsidiary effect of helping out the ratings of the MSM) is to hobble Donald Trump, a prelude to removing him from office.

There have been hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of words expended on trying the explain the “Russia collusion” narrative. It’s hard to get a handle on because its prime elements keep, er, “evolving.”


Losers lose. Try to remember that.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

“Obviously, these are serious charges. In its FISA application, the FBI expressed confidence that Carter Page was an “agent of a foreign power.” But he wasn’t. We know that for certain, because if there were even even the faintest hint of evidence after months of Democratic Party surveillance, Bob Mueller would have charged him. Carter Page is innocent, and the FBI’s assurances to the FISA court were false. You would never learn this from the AP’s biased account, however.”

From senile geezer Michael K’s article. No we don’t know for certain that Mueller won’t be charging him, maybe he is cooperating with Mueller, who knows? Certainly not some Trumpist at Powerline, certainly not senile Michael K. So much conjecture, so many conspiracy theories, so many senile Michael K assertions.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Has anyone here ever heard of sealed documents relating to indictments? Not senile Michael K or Trumpist rags like Powerline, apparently.

PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...

Inga,

Why are you afraid to talk about Dmitri Alperovitch?

I probably shouldn't even ask you about Petra Rostov. So I won't.

John Henry

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Inga- you're the one who tosses out innuendo, schiffty-D asshole innuendo, Maddow innuendo, MSM hack innuendo, and BS.

Your party lies.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Gowdy: "If There Was Evidence That President Trump Committed Any Crime, "Adam Schiff(D) Would Have Leaked It"

True enough. All Shhiffty-D has now is more innuendo and conspiracy nonsense.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

ot: PICTURED: Hillary and Bill's inmate

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

I do like how the MSM dutifully props up Adam Schiffty-D like he has credibility. Keep working it, you horn dogs.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Exclusive - Accused Russian agent Butina met with U.S. Treasury, Fed officials

2015 -- During the Obama administration WITH Obama administration officials.
Holy crap. This means the Russian collusion goes much deeper than Trump.

Michael K said...

Poor Inga. Reduced once again to nasty stupid invective.

Losers lose.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Inga...Allie Oop said...

Poor senile Michael K, likes to hand it out but he can’t take it. What a senile old pathetic mewling pussy. Hint, don’t strike if you can’t take a retaliatory hit.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

I'm waiting for the New Yorker/ NYT to depict the hack-D MSM in a gay sex orgy with Adam Schiffty-D.

Inga...Allie Oop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Considering Obama was Putin's real buddy, and Hillary pocketed millions off of secret Uranium deals and Bill's Russian Speeches - I'd say Poot-man is better buds with the "flexibility" crowd. Or perhaps Poot was sick of that shit and wanted out.

mockturtle said...

John Henry asks Inga: Why are you afraid to talk about Dmitri Alperovitch?

And while you're at it, ask her how long she's been on the FSB payroll. And how many texts she and Petra have exchanged in the past twelve months. And where the body of Irina Slovatskaya is buried. And what about Naomi?

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

I'd like to know more about this Crowdstrike fella.

Hey MSM - fill us in!

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Dead bodies for D? MSM not interested.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

@6:31 Bruce H -thank you.

*crickets*

You don't need to show your work when Adam Schiffty -D is the source for the lies and bullshit.

Shouting Thomas said...

God, you guys are up every night cussing one another out.

What in the hell for?

Narayanan said...

Interesting take on Trump - Putin meet up
http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/07/trumps-reverse-nixon-on-china.html?m=1

Yancey Ward said...

I see Inga tried to sneak back with that footnote once again.

Inga claimed that the FBI informed the court that the dossier was paid for by the Clinton Campaign and the DNC. When called out that, she went to the foot note where the FBI "speculates" about the motive of Glenn Simpson. That, of course, is irrelevant to the lie Inga told in her first comment. She disappeared for a while, the sneaks back and tries the foot note speculation once again.

Just to make it clear- we know today that the FBI didn't have to speculate about political motives- they literally knew that the dossier was funded by the Clinton Campaign and the DNC through Coie Perkins. There was no need to speculate about the motive, not an honest one. An honest man would have just noted for the record that the paying client was the Clinton Campaign and the DNC- no speculation needed, the judges themselves could do that easily at that point, but that was the problem- whoever prepared that application didn't want the judges to know who funded it, so finessed the issue with the speculation- the point being that if it gets called out, you get the Inga excuse that we didn't completely lie to you.

Drago said...

Yancey Ward: "I see Inga tried to sneak back with that footnote once again."

Well, it was either going to be Inga or LLR Chuck and Inga won the coin flip.

Francisco D said...

"I thought little c chuck was the idiot. I missed another Chuck. I don't remember seeing a different commenter."

Just to avoid confusion, let's call him Maxine. It's a name with great integrity and it bespeaks a special kind of intelligence.

Chuckles = Maxine!

Bruce Hayden said...

I had suggested earlier that John Carlin's resignation 10/15/2016 was so that he would not have to certify the next week that the Title II FISA warrant was accurate, knowing that Carter Page had been a cooperating witness in 3 completed Russian spying cases (starting in 2013 and ending in 3/2016). That likely turns out to have been overly generous. A better explanation is that he had just sworn that the FBI was in conformity with all requirements in their FISA Title VII database accesses. The problem, as we all know, is that throughout the previous nine months, it had come out that the FBI was far from being in compliance, going so far as to allow contractors to access these NSA databases without supervision, and, indeed, had been heavily searching them with no record d legal justification or targets. The exposure started in January with notice to NSA Dir Rogers. BY March, he had detected questionable transactions. He ordered a compliance review, that he reported to the FISC and the DoJ/FBI in early 10/2016 - right after Carlin had sworn to that court that the FBI was in compliance. I wonder whether his new employer, MoFo, knew that he was leaving the DoJ because he had just committed perjury before the FISC.

What is going to ultimately be interesting, when everything is finally uncovered, is how the FBI's FISA 702(USPERS) blatant irregularities and illegalities, that were uncovered in spring of 2016 tied into these Title II FISA warrants for Carter Page. Both the original Page warrant and Adm Rogers' notification to the FISC happened within days of each other, and I believe that the Page warrant was the day before. All a week after Carlin resigned, and maybe 3 weeks after he had certified FBI compliance. One suggestion is that they are all tied together, and in particular, that the Page warrant application was rushed because they didn't want the Rogers notification of blatant FBI 702 irregularities and illegalities fresh in the court's mind when approving the Page warrant. But another possibility is that the FBI contractors were using the FISA 702 searching for opposition research on the Trump campaign. This came to an abrupt stop in May, 2016, when Rogers shut down all FBI 702(16)(17) searching. A full counterintelligence investigation of Carter Page would allow the FBI to pick up where their contractors had left off. And, they could use that even if Page was no longer in the Trump campaign because the rules let them go forwards and backwards in time with the communications of the target, and apparently his confederates (I.e. The Trump Campaign). I should also note that some of the information in the Steele Dossier very likely came from those 702 searches by contractors, likely including Fusion GPS. IN particular, about the only way that they could have the wrong Michael Cohen going to Prague is if someone was searching ICE records by name, and the logical way for that to have happened is via a FISA 702 database search. ICE records have to be available to the NSA and FBI National Security Branch, but not to pretty much anyone else outside ICE itself. We shall hopefully see someday.

Bruce Hayden said...

One of the humorous aspects of this entire plot was that the DoJ and FBI knew about the Steele Dossier from the first. At a minimum, AAG Bruce Ohr knew, because his wife, Nelly, a Russian expert, was hired by Fusion GPS at almost exactly the same time as they hired Steele (May 2016). And because of that, they also almost assuredly knew that the Dossier had been paid for by the DNC and Clinton campaign. Also, apparently Bruce and Nelly Ohr are friends with Glen Simpson and his wife, Mary Jacoby, who own Fusion GPS.

But they couldn't act on the Steele Dossier if that is how they found out about it. Interestingly, according to the FISA application, the officially were put on notice of it by the State Dept, but also at the behest of Harry Reid. Of course, instead of this having been somewhat organic, and innocent, we find out that Steele had fed his Dossier to both the State Dept and Sens Reid and McCain, as well, of course, to all those MSM outlets. It was interesting that the warrant application cited all these sources for the information utilized for the FISA warrant, but the reality is there was only one person involved: Steele. He had just fed the story to that many people. The DoJ argued that so many sources agreeing validated the information. Nope - it was just Steele each time. This is, btw, part of why we have Hearsay Rules. The Dossier is almost entirely 2nd, 3rd, etc, level hearsay.

Paco Wové said...

Nobody seems to care too much about the dossier of kompromat that the Russian guy claims they have on Hillary Clinton.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

Carter Page was going to be the left's smoking gun. He's the Russian spy who was all in with the connections. Page was the glorious connections man sent to trip up poor Hillary and promote Trump with..... Russian lies!

So now all Adam Schiffty-D has is "Putin must have something on Trump" innuendo. Innuendo is all the left ever had and as they march down the field, the innuendo goal posts keep moving.

Matt Sablan said...

Also. At the time of the hearings the public was told a Republican had hired Fusion. Deliberately not mentioning Clinton means someone without the specialized knowledge would have the wrong idea who paid for it.

WWIII Joe Biden, Husk-Puppet + America's Putin said...

The Democrat Party MSM do all they can to blur and hide the truth.

Rusty said...

Shouting Thomas said...
"God, you guys are up every night cussing one another out.

What in the hell for?"

Because we're bored and this is entertaining

Douglas B. Levene said...

It's shocking although not surprising that the FBI relied on the Steele dossier completely, apparently because they thought Steele was a credible source, even though the FBI knew nothing at all about the identities or credibility of any of the people in the lengthy chain of hearsay on which Steele was supposedly reporting. It really doesn't matter in that case whether Steele was Jesus Christ himself - if you can't verify the credibility of all the links in the hearsay chain, you've got nothing.

Douglas B. Levene said...

I think Inga ought to learn what a misleading half truth is. Rule 10b-5 covers the matter nicely for securities fraud. A misleading half-truth is telling a true fact but omitting to tell another true fact without which the first fact is misleading. That's what the FBI did on the FISA application with respect to the provenance of the Steele dossier - it told some true facts but omitted others without which the stated facts were misleading. It did this intentionally because it feared if it told the whole truth the application would be rejected. That's fraud and in a just world, someone would be held to account for it.

Bruce Hayden said...

For anyone who questions whether thevFBI really depend on Christopher Steele, pretty much alone, ask yourself how many sources are described in the FISA application. The answer is precisely one (“Source#1”) who is, coincidentally Christopher Steele. There is no Siurce#2, Source#3, etc.

Michael McNeil said...

Paco Wové said…
“So, the Dems will use whatever is left redacted to claim that that is where the ‘evidence’ is that makes this all kosher.”

The Collusion of the Gaps.


Thread winner.

Bruce Hayden said...

Interesting article:
https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/tag/proof-of-trump-russian-collusion/

The author looks at several aspects of the Steele Dossier. One thing he did was track down the connections between and among all of the players, and there were a lot of them. It was quite incestuous, but much of it seemed to revolve around Harvard, Vassar (where Nellie Ohr taught), and a small area in DC. And then, of course, the Cambridge connections that included Steele and Halper (whose job appears to have been to dirty up Popendopolis and Page, through using Downer and Misfyd (maybe not CIA after all)). Heavy links with both the Obama and Clinton Administrations. And, no surprise, there are multiple ties to the Russian attorney who tried to implicate Kushner and Don, Jr. It wasn’t coincidence that she met with Simpson before and after meeting with Kushner and Trump, Jr. She had apparently worked with Simpson before.

Another interesting aspect was that apparently Steele never met with the actual sources of the information in the Dossier, but rather talked to people in Russia who talked to them. So, at a minimum, we are talking three levels of hearsay. How do you validate that sort of information? It is quite hard, which is probably why Fusion GPS turned down money from the FBI to do just that. And, looking at it critically, much of it is suspect. For example, the Golden Shower story was incredible, for no other reason than Trump’s well known germaphobia. But also, the three supposed sources were supposedly in position to acquire video of the hallway outside the room and didn’t (and the hotel apparently had a state of the art security video system). Finally, the story seems to have been reused from several years earlier by some of the same people. (Talking reuse - Nellie Ohr seems to have made it a habit, including of some of her husband’s DoJ cybercrime presentations).

Finally as to authorship. Some of it might have been of Russian or Ukrainian authorship, translated into English. But could just as easily have been the two Russian language experts (Ohr and Baumgardner) faking it. And turns out, by using writing style metrics, from public sources, the two of them appear to be much more likely as the authors than Steele. And, Simpson seems to have controlled the writing and assembly, and he and his wife seem to have added some of the content. He also probably did quite a bit more of the shopping of the Dossier to the press and govt agencies, than did the putative author, Steele.

One thing that is interesting is how hard so many people worked to put together such a short document, esp given how crude much of it was. Ohr, Baumgardner, and Steele are professional writers, and yet, despite not nearly being up to their usual standards, the first two have their fingerprints all over it.

Yancey Ward said...

This thread is dead, but I will add just one last thing- Page was never the target. The counterintelligence people had already vetted Page exhaustively during the targeting and prosecution of Buryakov during the period of 2013-2016. They didn't need another FISA warrant on Page- they already knew it was extremely unlikely that the Steele Dossier allegations were false. I assert that this is why no effort was made to verify the allegations- would you expend any effort in doing a job that was likely to give you information you expect to find, but don't want to find.

The target was Trump, Page was a tool, and any effort to verify the Dossier was likely make Page an ineffective too. If you aren't interested in bringing a criminal case, then you aren't concerned about using a warrant that will likely get any evidence collected tossed as 4th Amendment violations.

«Oldest ‹Older   201 – 310 of 310   Newer› Newest»