Althouse: "To love travel is to love the feeling of being uncomfortable in a controlled environment. It’s a very expensive roller coaster ride."

June 8, 2018

"To love travel is to love the feeling of being uncomfortable in a controlled environment. It’s a very expensive roller coaster ride."

"You board the plane knowing that maybe some new experiences will slide out of your comfort zone, but they are still choices you made. We’ve all seen the Instagram feeds of zip lines, SCUBA dives, long hikes, and drinks on the beach.... I see these pictures and feel no sense of envy or desire. I always saw travel as something anyone can do with enough money, time, and the wits to book a flight. By its nature travel is flirting. There is no commitment to the destination, only pleasure. Guest is a title travelers learn to accept. That word makes me cringe. If travel is being recreationally uncomfortable in a controlled environment ― I chose the opposite...."

From "I Don’t Want To Travel" by Jenna Woginrich — "Author, Farmer, Falconer"(HuffPo).

Here's her blog, Cold Antler Farm.

106 comments:

Seeing Red said...: You don’t need to fly to do those things. You can drive.; 6/8/18, 11:46 AM
Achilles said...: 1st world wealth creates the best 1st world problems.; 6/8/18, 11:46 AM
eric said...: If possible, I always prefer to drive.

We even drove from California to Florida once to go to Disney world.

But the time sink makes it tough.; 6/8/18, 11:48 AM
brylun said...: I've traveled almost everywhere over the course of many years.

You never appreciate what you have in the USA until you experience what others have.

Everytime I go on a trip my interest is piqued and I am stimulated to learn as much as I can about where I am going.

I have really enjoyed providing the learning experience of travel to my children, and I look forward to doing the same with the grandkids.; 6/8/18, 11:53 AM
Ryan said...: Would Anthony Bourdain still be alive if he didn't travel so much?; 6/8/18, 11:54 AM
brylun said...: One hundred years ago only kings and princes could travel. And read about Mark Twain's travel by ship as another example. Now you can buy a $1000 airplane ticket and be almost anywhere within 24 hours.; 6/8/18, 11:55 AM
Henry said...: I prefer work to travel. As long as it is interesting work.; 6/8/18, 11:55 AM
brylun said...: I suppose you can live your life in a sensory deprivation tank.; 6/8/18, 11:57 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: There are certain sites and art I want to see in person. And there are certain things, say swimming in the ocean or skiing, that one can only do in certain places. The travel part is the annoyance required to be at the places to see and do.

I share the author's lack of envy at travel pictures. Especially if someone posts pictures from several places visited on the same day, even places one would like to visit. One can only think, "How arduous!"; 6/8/18, 12:02 PM
Henry said...: I've spent good portions of my vacation time over the last few years building a barn. I wish I had more time to do it. It is immensely interesting and satisfying work. Someone else can to take a jet to an exotic locale, swim around a reef, and try the local ceviche. I prefer the day I spent hanging and leveling the rolling door.; 6/8/18, 12:03 PM
brylun said...: I look at travel more like an experience of the local people, their culture and history, and perhaps a glimpse of their (and our) future.; 6/8/18, 12:07 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "You don’t need to fly to do those things. You can drive."

She can't.

She's set up a life that requires her to be on her farm all the time. It's like marriage compared to dating. Once you're married, no more dating, and it's supposed to be better. If it's not better, what are you doing wrong?; 6/8/18, 12:14 PM
rehajm said...: I share the author's lack of envy at travel pictures

They seem a bit of a travel straw man. If that's what travel is to you then you're not doing it right.

From my travels I know Jackson, NY isn't much to look at but Saragota to the west is, or east into Vermont on 152 to rte 30 through Dorset is one of the prettiest drives in a state full of them.; 6/8/18, 12:15 PM
tim maguire said...: Travel is about going to places you don't normally go to do things you don't normally do. It's expensive and maybe hard to justify from a strict fiscal standpoint, but it' adventure and discovery. If you don't value that, then it's money poorly spent.; 6/8/18, 12:17 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "Would Anthony Bourdain still be alive if he didn't travel so much?"

Or: What was the dark side of the urge to travel? It looks exciting and cool on the outside, but what is the inner experience. You can never leave the inside of your own head... or well, back to the subject of LSD. You could travel in your mind instead of taking you old head into a new geographic location. I've seen travelers (AKA tourists), and they're not such amazing people. It's hard to have a deep spiritual/artistic experience while traveling. I've done it quite a few times, and it's pretty hard and not a fun roller coaster.; 6/8/18, 12:18 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "I share the author's lack of envy at travel pictures. Especially if someone posts pictures from several places visited on the same day, even places one would like to visit. One can only think, "How arduous!""

I tend to think: What's outside the frame? Surely, they put the prettiest/coolest part inside the picture frame. Where are the ugly people? Where's the trash? Where's the incongruous American stuff (like Motown music in café and Disney characters in shop windows)? Where are the lines and milling crowds all come to check of the same bucket list item? Where's the creepy guy you had to walk out of your way to avoid?; 6/8/18, 12:22 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "From my travels I know Jackson, NY isn't much to look at but Saragota to the west is, or east into Vermont on 152 to rte 30 through Dorset is one of the prettiest drives in a state full of them."

I agree that relatively short drive trips within a day's range of home are great. I'm happy with a state park sticker in the window of my TT. I don't need more dramatic landscapes and for historical depth, I would prefer to read history. I've seen the forum in Rome and a written description of what happened there is a much more profound experience.; 6/8/18, 12:25 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "'Saragota is one of the prettiest drives...' I've seen the forum in Rome..."

Saragota... Rome... I'm thinking toga... isn't it Saratoga?; 6/8/18, 12:27 PM
rehajm said...: Saragota... Rome... I'm thinking toga... isn't it Saratoga?

Saratoga, yes. Misspelled...

Not far to the west there's also Rome, NY...; 6/8/18, 12:29 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "I look at travel more like an experience of the local people, their culture and history, and perhaps a glimpse of their (and our) future."

Do you really meet the real people in a significant way or do you interact with employees who cater to tourists? Why would a real person in that place want anything to do with you? And what range of local people do you actually interact with in your town? Couldn't you get more depth in knowing about people by forming a broader circle in your own home town? I'm just really skeptical of the idea that tourists are getting any genuine human contact in the places they visit. Me, I have a hard time meeting and interacting with anybody anywhere, so the idea that I'd have significant human encounters is too remote to be any kind of a factor at all. For me, traveling is a way to heighten loneliness.; 6/8/18, 12:31 PM
daskol said...: Ha, text conversation with my wife re Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade this morning:

me: very sad to see he offed himself. he probably would have benefited from the structure of a day job, but he would have hated it. and all his travelling was a sure sign of his unhappiness and loneliness. he never let himself grow up at all.

her: I still can't believe it. I can picture someone like Kate Spade stuck in her upper east side expansive apartment getting depressed as hell. But him? I would have thought he would find a way to live. And for Eric Ripert to find him. Ghastly

me: traveling is as oppressive as a big fancy apartment, once you've been everywhere in the world twice.

her: He could have just stopped traveling. He could have done anything. Some speculate Asia Argento broke up with him recently as she was spotted canoodling with another journalist this week

me: he was definitely lonely.; 6/8/18, 12:33 PM
Seeing Red said...: She's set up a life that requires her to be on her farm all the time.

My SIL has 5 acres. They raise sheep and goats as bees. They used to have chickens too.

It’s hard to find someone to feed the animals for the weekend or a week, but they do manage to find them and take time off. Since he’s a teacher, they were gone for 3 weeks a few years ago.

My husband has a small company. We don’t get 3 week vacations, much less 2. We pushed a 9 day vacation but that means after mostly a day of working, you leave Friday in early rush hour.

If she wanted to she’d find someone.

That’s a 4-H badge or Scout badge in the making.

If she’s near an Ag school, internships.

She chose it.

When there’s a will, there’s usually a way.

She doesn’t want to.; 6/8/18, 12:34 PM
sh said...: http://www.bedlamfarm.com/2016/06/14/the-complexities-of-being-jenna-helping-her-fend-off-the-bank/ Just so you are aware of the blog to which you have linked. This is a particularly kind portrayal.; 6/8/18, 12:34 PM
mockturtle said...: Fine. Those of you who hate to travel don't have to. No one is forcing you. Those of us who love to travel don't mind if you don't. Just don't keep bashing travel as if were miserable and unrewarding.; 6/8/18, 12:35 PM
daskol said...: oh, my last text: he'd have been far better off just getting back on heroin; 6/8/18, 12:38 PM
Seeing Red said...: It depends on the type of tour you’re going on, Anne.

Get the Berlitz book and hop on a bus.

Go on your own, plan your own.

We wandered around Hong Kong then set up a tour to the mainland. My regret is I didn’t take 4 days unpaid vacation because I was a tightwad and go to Beijing.

We even left the luggage at the hotel and just packed small.; 6/8/18, 12:44 PM
reader said...: I don’t enjoy traveling. I start counting down in my head the number of days until I get to go back home. My husband and son love to travel. Some of my happiest memories are experiencing the joy they feel when we travel. That’s the only reason why I go.; 6/8/18, 12:44 PM
daskol said...: You can't grow up when you're always traveling. Too busy dealing with logistics. You can forget lots of things you don't want to think about, and distract yourself with the changing scenery and perpetual challenge of logistics. But you can't grow until you stop traveling and have time to think about it all.; 6/8/18, 12:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Summary: "I don't enjoy this and get nothing out of it, so I'm going to diss it in the native language of my type - smug, trite, self-congratulatory snark."

"I always saw travel as something anyone can do with enough money, time, and the wits to book a flight."

No shit, lady. Is this supposed to be some kind of deep insight? All kinds of people can travel, and all kinds of people do. But maybe for you that's the real problem with travel.

"By its nature travel is flirting. There is no commitment to the destination, only pleasure."

More banality parading itself as insight. And I have no idea what "commitment to the destination" is supposed to mean. You mean perhaps I'm not "committed" to the places I visit as I am to my own neighbors, my own kith and kin, my own hearth and home? Why no, I'm not. Why would I be? Duh.

I doubt she really knows what she means, either. Sounds like swpl travel-babble to me; swpl travel-babble seems to be the limit of her notions of travel.

"Guest is a title travelers learn to accept."

No, I think most people have it down that they'll be "non-members" there, before they go to places that are other people's home territory. Didn't realize that this requires a struggle toward "acceptance" for some people.

"If travel is being recreationally uncomfortable in a controlled environment..."

Aside from the airplane ride, no, that is not what travel is, unless that's what you choose to do once you get off the plane.

"― I chose the opposite...."

You chose one side of a false dichotomy.; 6/8/18, 12:46 PM
Seeing Red said...: Since we’re getting into cooking, we’ve even decided if we go overseas, we’re going to take a cooking class.

Our neighbors just came back from England and Scotland. They’re liberals and ended up in the Bar where Labour hangs out. They had a great time and great food.; 6/8/18, 12:46 PM
John Scott said...: I have owned a foreign currency exchange for 26 years. I have never been out of the country.; 6/8/18, 12:51 PM
Seeing Red said...: Grayline is the tour too. Get on, get off, but it’s a great way to see DC.; 6/8/18, 12:52 PM
n.n said...: Our first trip is from our mother's womb to the open fields and waters of planet Earth.; 6/8/18, 12:52 PM
Darrell said...: You can travel anywhere you want to go in seconds on your computer. It smells better, too.; 6/8/18, 12:55 PM
chuck said...: The secret of such a life is money. I wonder where her's comes from.; 6/8/18, 12:57 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: Do you really meet the real people in a significant way or do you interact with employees who cater to tourists? Why would a real person in that place want anything to do with you? And what range of local people do you actually interact with in your town?

I think that this first sentence highlights the difference between being a tourist and actually being a traveler. Not that one is necessarily better than the other. It is what you personally want out of the experiences.

A tourist is one who goes to a destination or several destinations to see interesting or famous places. The stays for a tourist are brief and superficial. Time is usually the reason for this. Gotta get there, see the stuff, take photos, get back and mark the experience off on your bucket list.

A traveler is one who can go to a place, not necessarily a destination place, but anyplace and can stay a while. Explore the area. Rent a place for a week if you don't have your own house with you like Mockturtle does. Get off the beaten path. Meet people. Participate in some local events. More leisurely and certainly less of a constructed experience than that of the tourist.

I've been a tourist. I have been a traveler. The latter is much more rewarding and fun, if you have the time.

As to the last sentence, because we live in an area with a very small town and a small surrounding population, we tend to interact with almost everyone at some point. Obviously, with some people more often. This place is like Cheers where everyone knows your name....and sometimes too much of your business.

Small town stuff....For example: we have ONE grocery store in the little town. The current manager, who has been there for over 25 years, is about to retire. The employees and the patrons of the store (which is just about everyone in the area) are arranging for a surprise retirement party AT the store during working hours. Everyone is chipping in money and gifts. The plan is to have a 'disaster' or emergency for him to have to come out of the office while he is doing his daily paper work and SURPRISE!!! Shopping will have to cease, or slow down, for a short while. Only the tourists will complain. Who cares?; 6/8/18, 1:02 PM
Roughcoat said...: I'm in accord with Ulysses, as portrayed in Tennyson's great poem:

I cannot rest from travel: I will drink
Life to the lees: All times I have enjoy'd
Greatly, have suffer'd greatly, both with those
That loved me, and alone, on shore, and when
Thro' scudding drifts the rainy Hyades
Vext the dim sea: I am become a name;
For always roaming with a hungry heart
Much have I seen and known; cities of men
And manners, climates, councils, governments,
Myself not least, but honour'd of them all;
And drunk delight of battle with my peers,
Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy.
I am a part of all that I have met;
Yet all experience is an arch wherethro'
Gleams that untravell'd world whose margin fades
For ever and forever when I move.
How dull it is to pause, to make an end,
To rust unburnish'd, not to shine in use!; 6/8/18, 1:02 PM
buwaya said...: The real explanation of the urge to travel is in Kipling's "Mandalay".

Its not a superficial thing. But it does come with a hint of tragedy.

And a real traveler is not a tourist, as such. He is a linguist, an aesthete, an ethnologist, a scholar, of one sort or another, as suits his ability and education.; 6/8/18, 1:03 PM
buwaya said...: I am a traveler in your land.

And I come from a long line of such travelers.; 6/8/18, 1:06 PM
Henry said...: I enjoy other people's traveling.; 6/8/18, 1:08 PM
Henry said...: On the other hand, I have a friend who loves to travel, and travels internationally once or twice a year, and kind of hates other people's traveling. It can be easier to admire and enjoy that thing that is not your own domain.; 6/8/18, 1:11 PM
Henry said...: But enough with the selfies.; 6/8/18, 1:11 PM
Roughcoat said...: Summary: "I don't enjoy this and get nothing out of it, so I'm going to diss it in the native language of my type - smug, trite, self-congratulatory snark."

Ha ha, good stuff, Angle-Dyne, totally agree. And with the rest of what you wrote too.

E.g, "travel is flirting," what the fuck does that mean? More's to the point, why did she write this article? Did she really have to get this all off her chest?; 6/8/18, 1:12 PM
Anonymous said...: AA: Do you really meet the real people in a significant way or do you interact with employees who cater to tourists?

That's up to the "you" here, isn't it? Why is your assumption that brylun is bullshitting himself?

Btw, everybody traveling for the sake of traveling is a tourist, unless maybe they're Charles Doughty or Ibn Battuta. And it's actually a pretty simple matter for a tourist to interact with natives who aren't just catering to tourists.

Why would a real person in that place want anything to do with you?

I've often asked myself that question; but strangely, they very often do. In surprising and lovely ways.

And what range of local people do you actually interact with in your town? Couldn't you get more depth in knowing about people by forming a broader circle in your own home town?

Again, that false dichotomy. That one can enjoy travel or be deeply rooted but not both. To the contrary, it is travel that deepened my love of my own and my understanding of my own home, my own place in space and time. As well as my understanding and respect for other people's.; 6/8/18, 1:18 PM
Oso Negro said...: @Roughcoat and Buwaya - I'm out there with Ulysses and Kipling. I just rented an apartment in Odessa, Ukraine waiting for my townhouse to be built here. I avoid the places where other foreigners go. I like to be the only one.; 6/8/18, 1:21 PM
Roughcoat said...: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate....; 6/8/18, 1:22 PM
Roughcoat said...: Oso Negro:

Very cool. Enjoy!

(Are you planning to run the Odessa Steps?!); 6/8/18, 1:23 PM
Oso Negro said...: Roughcoat, the Potemkin Stairs are a bit beyond the current capacity of my knees. But it is a lovely city.; 6/8/18, 1:39 PM
Roughcoat said...: Why would a real person in that place want anything to do with you?

Jeez, you really do need to get out more, and when you get out you should get around and talk to people.

What I've found is, people love to talk to foreign visitors. Especially people in small towns, rural areas, remote regions, and -- most especially -- people in non-Western countries. If they like you -- and they typically want to like you -- they'll pump you for information, hang on your every word, buy you coffee, even invite you into your homes.

I could tell you so many stories ... in western Ireland, entering pubs and sitting down and ordering a pint and waiting no more than a minute or two before the locals join me to strike up a conversation. . . . spending a week in a tiny village in the mountains of Crete, sitting outside with the old men with huge white moustaches, smoking cigarettes and drinking endless cups of coffee and listening to them telling tales (which were probably all more or less true) of killing Germans in World War II . . . hanging out with a bunch of Mayans in Belize getting hilariously drunk and stone on some kind of weird foul-tasting hallucinogenic liquor ... and etc., etc., etc.; 6/8/18, 1:40 PM
Roughcoat said...: Oso Negro:

You could ride down the steps in a baby carriage, bump bump bump.

:); 6/8/18, 1:45 PM
kjbe said...: I don't know if it's the wanderer, the seeker, the geographer in me, but to sit on a ridge line, sometimes above the clouds, looking out for what seems forever, is magical. Quiet and magical.

I read a lot of history, too, but to see these actual places, how the lands roll; to imagine what happened in this place..I don't know, maybe it's the need to be tactile that helps me navigate the world.; 6/8/18, 1:49 PM
brylun said...: To partially answer Althouse: If you stay in hostels you meet everyone; if you stay in 5-star hotels you meet no one. You have to be willing to rough it a bit. Example: Stay in the hostel in Delhi. It's perfectly safe, in the Embassy district and full of young (and not so young) interesting people mostly all wanting to experience the country and its people. Ride a tuk-tuk and get to know the driver. (Not recommended: taking a tuk-tuk to the airport!) Ride the local trains and talk to the people. (My daughter and I once took a train from Delhi to Agra - I was very pleasantly surprised at the $1.50 price but my daughter was not inpressed with the seating arrangements). Go to Amritsar and get up at 4:30am and go with the people to the Golden Temple of the Sikhs. (You will surely know the difference between Sikhs and Muslims!) Go to Bodhgaya and see where Prince Siddhartha lived in a cave for months and go to the temple and sit under the 6th generation bodhi tree where he became the Buddha (You are sure to learn much about Buddhism and its relationship to Hinduism). Go to Goa and see the ancient ruins of the Portuguese churches and think about how the apostle Thomas made his way to Kerala after the Crucifixion. Go to Varanasi and see the Saddhus covered in nothing but ash and gain access to Hindu temples (unless you are wearing leather - shoes or belt). And contemplate what 200 years of British rule has meant for India and its quest to reach a modern state.

I could go on and on, but I doubt if you share these types of interests.; 6/8/18, 1:54 PM
traditionalguy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/8/18, 2:01 PM
traditionalguy said...: Of course you fly away. Then you pick up a Hertz rental at the Airport and drive tour through several cities/countries staying a enjoying living day or three in each. Then you return the Hertz at another Airport and fly home. Use your Delta Skymiles from the Office American Express.

Cruises are not fun anymore. All Cruise ships once took 800 or less passengers and offered excellent service. Today's Cruise Ships have become 4,000 to 5,000 passenger operations that are like being trapped in Times square crowd at New Years Eve. Those ships have to be governed by rude and officious Cruise ship police using a hostile attitude to control the mobs. The high end ships still carry 800 ( such as Crystal Cruises) but cost 3 times as much. Pay the extra or don't go.; 6/8/18, 2:02 PM
mockturtle said...: The real explanation of the urge to travel is in Kipling's "Mandalay".

Its not a superficial thing. But it does come with a hint of tragedy.

"Where the dawn comes up like thunder out of China 'cross the bay" Love it.; 6/8/18, 2:08 PM
Nonapod said...: As I've said many times here before, in our modern times travel is rarely worth the effort and inconvenience. Especially international travel. Long flights are a misery. Most other places on Earth seem to hate Americans. And many denizens of foreign places try to kidnap American tourists for ransom.

Many places on Earth would be great if it wasn't for all the awful people that happen to live in them.; 6/8/18, 2:09 PM
stevew said...: I travel all the time for business, as part of my job, all of which is in North America. I generally enjoy it, though it does get a little old if the trips are close together.

I'm a reluctant holiday traveler. My wife loves to travel, I think she gets it from her parents. We have gone on some fun trips together; Italy, Ireland, Scotland, England, Costa Rica, and a few places in the Caribbean, to name a few. We tend to travel on our own and stay in B&Bs. They were all very enjoyable and entertaining.

She has also been to Morocco, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Russia & the Baltic States, among others. Those trips were with her mother and a family friend. She does it that way because she wants to go and knows I will not. I limit my travel to civilized places. I'm not going to India, or China, or Africa, nor most places in South America & the Middle East. I would like to go to Israel.

My wife's family cannot understand why I wouldn't want to go to "exotic" out of the way places. I cannot understand what it is they don't understand, those places are, to me, best described recently and somewhat famously as "shitholes".

We've come up with a good solution.

-sw; 6/8/18, 2:47 PM
Earnest Prole said...: The term is homebody: someone who is unadventurous. Its usage has increased dramatically in recent years, indicating people increasingly feel the desire to shelter in place. To each his own.; 6/8/18, 2:55 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “I could go on and on, but I doubt if you share these types of interests...”

In theory, I am interested, but in reality, I am too concerned about my health and physical safety and the sheer work and expense of the whole enterprise. In my limited time, I choose to do other things.; 6/8/18, 2:58 PM
rehajm said...: A cruise is like spending your whole vacation on the airplane in the middle seat in coach.; 6/8/18, 2:58 PM
Michael said...: Althouse is afraid to fly. A very common fear. Like many she resolves it by enumerating the many hassles of air travel and concluding that they are not worth it for her. Further rationalizations accompany the hassle argument but at root it is the fear that the plane will fall from the sky with her in it.
I have about four million air miles under my belt with the first milllion with my white knuckles gripping the arm rests. My fear vanished at some point. Don't know why. I have been All,over the world and have met so many great people that have become friends. I rarely travel as a tourist, almost always with a business purpose but I allow myself a day or two to ramble in these foreign places. Reading about the teacher strike is not the same as strolling among the protesters in the zocalo. Walking in the third world cities with the roar of the enterprising all around is not the same as reading a report in the FT. Being there is a great thing.; 6/8/18, 3:27 PM
buwaya said...: "I am too concerned about my health and physical safety"

This is a personal thing.
Others think that the function of a physical body is to serve as a stake in the game, the acceptable forfeit of a bad roll of the dice.; 6/8/18, 3:31 PM
buwaya said...: "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.... "

"All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. "

That ad-lib by Rutger Hauer made the movie.; 6/8/18, 3:35 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "Althouse is afraid to fly."

I'm not afraid to fly. I hate the hassle, the regimentation, and the physical constraint of air travel. I hate having to deal with getting to the airport and going through all the security and lines and so forth. Any airline trip demands hours and hours of that sort of thing. I hate that you have to book the flight ahead of time, committing to particular days, stuck where you've decided to go for X number of days and pinned down (unlike when you go by car). It's gross: the recycled air, people sneezing and coughing, their overflowing flesh often actually touching you (for hours!). When you arrive in a place, you still have so much rigmarole to go through before you can get to a hotel and feel human again -- waiting to get off the plane, wrangling your luggage, lines for a cab, etc. etc. There's so much obvious bad that must accompany the pursuit of the good part that nothing seems worth the trouble, especially since if I don't do it, I get the time to do something else, something more subtle, modest, and gently doable.; 6/8/18, 3:36 PM
Ann Althouse said...: When you say "Althouse is afraid to fly" to characterize my objection to air travel, what I hear is an attempt to claim that your eagerness to fly represents courage. Sorry, but it's not an act of courage to fly. I could just as well say it's courageous to drive. No one is going to give you character points for doing that. And isn't it bad character to insult people and accuse them of being cowardly, especially to jump to say that when you're not even right about the problem the person has? And let's say a person does have a phobia about something: Why is it okay to needle them about it?; 6/8/18, 3:41 PM
buwaya said...: "travel is flirting,"

"There's a Burma girl a-settin', and I know she thinks o' me"; 6/8/18, 3:44 PM
buwaya said...: "I'm not afraid to fly. I hate the hassle, the regimentation, and the physical constraint of air travel."

3-16 hours of constraint is nothing to a traveler in the right state of mind.
Or the hardships of any other modern system.

Our ancestors were accustomed to much worse, and not as the trip of a lifetime either. We have it easy.; 6/8/18, 3:49 PM
mikee said...: Business travel, with an expense account, makes the uncomfortable go away with just a swipe of the corporate card.; 6/8/18, 4:00 PM
Seeing Red said...: Especially in Vegas.; 6/8/18, 4:33 PM
Earnest Prole said...: If I recall correctly, Althouse abhors physical contact with strangers, which air travel necessitates (for hours) unless you’re filthy rich. It’s a common phobia and should not be mocked.; 6/8/18, 4:41 PM
buwaya said...: "Althouse abhors physical contact with strangers"

There are large parts of the world that must be avoided.; 6/8/18, 4:46 PM
Seeing Red said...: Its only a lot of work if you want it to be.

There are 2 of you to bounce wishes and ideas off of.

As to expense, you pay a hell of a lot in property taxes.

For our 30th anniversary although delaying it because of life, we’re going to Norway. His idea because he wants to fulfill an item on my bucket list. I want to see the Northern Lights. He got the brochures. We’re probably actually using a travel agent this time. I’ve done all our vacations before.

It’s basically where do you want to go, how long, what’s the budget then surf the web to fit your budget.

We spent a couple of hours looking, decided against Greenland and Iceland. We were going to add in Poland, but I finally came to my senses and decided I didn’t want to slog around Poland in the winter. So he said, we’ll plan another in a couple of years and go.

It’s not like Norway is a big country. There’s a train. We’ve never done a train trip. And I don’t trust Amtrak so......

So lots of things crossed off, we’re going skiing there too if we can.; 6/8/18, 4:50 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: When my husband has to travel for work, it is usually to one of two big cities. He seems to spend most of his free time trying to convince immigrants to move inland. Most of them express dissatisfaction with the long commute, long hours, and impersonal nature of city life. I hope at least one of them shows up one day having moved here.; 6/8/18, 4:52 PM
mockturtle said...: When you say "Althouse is afraid to fly" to characterize my objection to air travel, what I hear is an attempt to claim that your eagerness to fly represents courage. Sorry, but it's not an act of courage to fly.

It all depends on what you're flying in. An F-35 might be thrilling but I would need a bit of courage to try one [I'd like to, though]. I've been on commuter flights that demanded a bit of courage just to board, such rickety old things that they were.

However, most who love to travel are not about enjoying the long flights but the experiences at the end of them. To me, the end fully justifies the means. OTOH, you couldn't pay me enough to take a cruise ship anywhere--being stuck with thousands of people in the middle of the ocean. For weeks! And possibly sharing norovirus with all of your fellow passengers.; 6/8/18, 5:02 PM
Seeing Red said...: That’s what Dramamine is for. Nightly-night!; 6/8/18, 5:05 PM
Anonymous said...: AA: When you say "Althouse is afraid to fly" to characterize my objection to air travel, what I hear is an attempt to claim that your eagerness to fly represents courage.

Aren't you doing the same thing in the way you attempt to characterize other people's stated enjoyment of travel? They're not *really* getting out of travel the things they claim to be getting out of it. They're shallow and self-deluding, and your disinclination for travel represents a superior self-knowledge, and a preference for deeper and more meaningful interactions in a smaller sphere of human relations.; 6/8/18, 5:15 PM
daskol said...: a reluctance to travel may indicate privileging the experiencing self over the remembering self, to use Kahneman's terms. experiencing self hates the hasslen the dirt, the planning, thw packing the schlepping and perhaps worst of all the revulsion of that moment you realized that was another person's hair on your toothbrush. remembering self usually forgets all that stuff and instead remembers the countryside, the collisseum, maybe the cute little animals and the beautiful paintings in the museum.

those who privilege the experiencing self have too vivid a recall of the hassle, the hawkers the other person's hair on the toothbrush. if you live more in the moment, if you really privilege the moment, most moments when traveling sorta suck. ratio of pleasant moments to unpleasant moments is very unfavorable compared to other activities.; 6/8/18, 5:18 PM
buwaya said...: From Kiplings travel book, "From Sea to Sea: Letters of Travel", on his visit to Burma -

https://itchyfeetandmore.com/rudyard-kiplings-burma/

citing - http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/32977

"I should better remember what that pagoda was like had I not fallen deeply and irrevocably in love with a Burmese girl at the foot of the first flight of steps. Only the fact of the steamer starting next noon prevented me from staying at Moulmein forever and owning a pair of elephants."; 6/8/18, 5:28 PM
Anonymous said...: mock: However, most who love to travel are not about enjoying the long flights but the experiences at the end of them.

Indeed. I don't know why Althouse keeps banging on about how much air travel sucks, as if anybody were claiming to enjoy that part of travel. I can understand concluding that its unpleasantness factor was so high that it outweighed every other consideration re travel, but obviously other people don't give it the same relative weight she does.

To me, the end fully justifies the means. OTOH, you couldn't pay me enough to take a cruise ship anywhere--being stuck with thousands of people in the middle of the ocean. For weeks! And possibly sharing norovirus with all of your fellow passengers.

Me, neither. Looks like Hell to me. But I don't assume that people who are repeat cruise-ship patrons aren't really enjoying themselves, but only pretending to enjoy themselves because they were told that they were supposed to enjoy this sort of thing. Other people enjoy a lot of things that I give me no pleasure.; 6/8/18, 5:28 PM
mockturtle said...: Other people enjoy a lot of things that I give me no pleasure.

Yes, Angle, and I'm grateful. Cruise-ship enjoyers should be glad there are people like me and I'm glad everyone doesn't enjoy camping in the mountains or flying to exotic locales. Or just hitting the road with no intention of going 'home' because your home is where you park it.; 6/8/18, 5:50 PM
Char Char Binks, Esq. said...: trav·el

make a journey, typically of some length or abroad.

Origin

Middle English: variant of travail and originally in the same sense.; 6/8/18, 6:14 PM
Michael said...: Althouse

No courage involved in flying, just the rational winning over the irrational.
But there is no shame in a fear of flying and no need to try to overcome it if there is no need.
You seem defensive, passive aggressive on this topic. Not a good look.; 6/8/18, 6:37 PM
Richard Schaaf said...: She sounds awfully defensive about her chosen lifestyle; 6/8/18, 7:20 PM
brylun said...: Go to Bangkok and visit the Jim Thompson House.; 6/8/18, 7:39 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/8/18, 7:39 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/8/18, 7:43 PM
Earnest Prole said...: just the rational winning over the irrational

We make our most important decisions irrationally, and then reason backwards to defend them -- call it plausible prejudice.; 6/8/18, 7:43 PM
brylun said...: Go to Chongqing and visit the Dazu Rock Carvings (no one speaks English).; 6/8/18, 7:43 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Althouse said...
“And isn't it bad character to insult people and accuse them of being cowardly, especially to jump to say that when you're not even right about the problem the person has?”

Yes indeed it is.

“And let's say a person does have a phobia about something: Why is it okay to needle them about it?”

Nope, it’s not.

Michael said...
“You seem defensive, passive aggressive on this topic. Not a good look.”

Oh good grief Michael, you really are an asshole. Althouse doesn’t agree with you, you mischaracterized her and then once again you behave in an insulting and demeaning manner, your fall back position; 6/8/18, 7:45 PM
brylun said...: Go to Siem Reap and visit Angkor Wat and view the line of children waiting to get treatment at the hospital there.; 6/8/18, 7:47 PM
brylun said...: Go to Arusha and wander around the city during the day (unsafe at night).

Go to Cairo and stay in the Yacoubian Building at the Hostel Brothers hostel (run be 2 young Egyptian lawyers) in Old Cairo. Read the book “Yacoubian Building” and learn about the futility of Egyptian life.

There is no better way to learn about the world than by traveling.; 6/8/18, 7:55 PM
brylun said...: Go to Asmara and see the children with flies crawling in and out of their mouths and contemplate the past majesty of the Queen of Sheba and King Solomon.; 6/8/18, 7:58 PM
brylun said...: Go to Tan Tan (Morocco) and bathe in the public bath with 2 buckets of precious water.; 6/8/18, 8:00 PM
Earnest Prole said...: See the jungle when it's wet with rain
Watch the sunrise from a tropic isle
Fly the ocean in a silver plane
See the pyramids along the Nile
See the marketplace in old Algiers; 6/8/18, 8:13 PM
mockturtle said...: ...just remember, darling, all the while
You belong to me.; 6/8/18, 8:52 PM
Henry said...: For the record, my good friend is terrified to fly, but loves international travel, and so flies, terrified, whenever she can.

I have no fear of flying, but prefer to stay home and so don't fly.; 6/8/18, 10:57 PM
Henry said...: Go to Tan Tan (Morocco) and bathe in the public bath with 2 buckets of precious water.

Go out the back door and feel the rain, or better yet, take 2 buckets of precious water and feed the garden.

The Queen of Sheba is among my companions. I don't need to travel to imagine her terrible beauty.; 6/8/18, 11:02 PM
Henry said...: Go to Siem Reap and visit Angkor Wat and view the line of children waiting to get treatment at the hospital there.

Take the commuter rail to Back Bay and contemplate the reflection of Trinity Church in the glass of Hancock Tower. Walk down Boylston and give a dollar to the merchant marine who broke his back falling down a flight of stairs. Talk to him a while. His story is consistent.; 6/8/18, 11:08 PM
Oso Negro said...: The afternoon light streaming into the nave of Sacre Coeur in Montmartre alone is practically worth being groped by a TSA stooge, to say nothing of a soapy massage in Rayong City.; 6/9/18, 2:16 AM
Rusty said...: Althouse @3:36
It's tedious, airtravel. There is also the fact that you're packed in essentially an upscaled alum. cigar tube with strangers who may or may not share your interest in personal hygene. Travel by train is even worse. Although the food is better.
Driving you get to interact with the landscape. Stop when you want. Eat when you want. And for the most part everyone speaks some form of english.

buwaya
"bloomin' lot she cared for idols when I kissed her where she stood"
My stepdad, when in his cuos, would sing the whole thing with his deep bass voice.; 6/9/18, 6:26 AM
brylun said...: Climb up the many steps to Sacre Coeur and enjoy the magnificent view.; 6/9/18, 7:01 AM
brylun said...: Have coffee on the Rive Gauche, visit the tomb of Voltaire and contemplate the French Revolution.; 6/9/18, 7:03 AM
brylun said...: Go to Athens, visit the Parthenon, then go to London to the British Museum and view the Elgin Marbles, and contemplate what would have happened to them if the British didn't make a deal with the Ottoman Empire.; 6/9/18, 7:09 AM
brylun said...: While at the British Museum check out the Rosetta Stone.; 6/9/18, 7:11 AM
brylun said...: I guess they don't teach Western Civilization in today's universities, so you better travel if you want a well-rounded education.; 6/9/18, 7:22 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: Experienced the joy of severe turbulence. People screaming in terror. Some of them vomiting. Appreciate cars more.; 6/9/18, 9:11 PM