May 23, 2018

The NFL bans kneeling during the National Anthem.

The option to simply stay off the field remains available.
"We want people to be respectful of the national anthem," commissioner Roger Goodell said. "We want people to stand -- that's all personnel -- and make sure they treat this moment in a respectful fashion. That's something we think we owe. [But] we were also very sensitive to give players choices."

74 comments:

Michael K said...

I wonder if the black players will obey ?

Does the NFL and coach have the guts to suspend or fire a player ?

Fabi said...

Why will the team pay the fine -- why not the players?

Quaestor said...

The ban is a portent of things to come next autumn.

Ken B said...

Poor Chuck. Poor Inga.

Quaestor said...

Why will the team pay the fine -- why not the players?

This puts the onus of disciplining players who do not comply on the owners where it belongs.

john said...

They can stay in the locker room until the NA is finished. Their entry into the stadium will be their protest.

Fabi said...

Quaestor -- That's fair, and maybe the players' union / contract wouldn't allow the fines to be levied individually.

rhhardin said...

The anthem/flag fetish isn't healthy in a democracy but what are you going to do.

Both sides are trading on it equally.

Achilles said...

The SJW's are melting down over this. And everything else.

It has been a good week for our country.

The Drill SGT said...

It's the workplace environment that the owners are regulating. I have no 1A rights in my employers space. Certainly not if I want to stay there. The NFL already sanctions players for excessive end zone displays. why not these excessive displays?

Beyond that, there is CYA for the owners in 36 USC 301:

(1) when the flag is displayed—
(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

Gahrie said...

The anthem/flag fetish isn't healthy in a democracy but what are you going to do.

I guess it's a good thing we aren't a democracy.

Honoring you country, your nation and your history isn't a fetish...it's a responsibility.

The Drill SGT said...

however, the NFL and the players have lost millions in revenue that will never come back...

this is an attempt to put a stop to the bleeding.

rcocean said...

So, they were forced to.

If they had their druthers, the billionaire owners would've been Jake with burning the US Flag because of slavery etc.

I'd love for some player to protest the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians by refusing to kneel, and see how supportive the owners and ESPN are of that.

rcocean said...

The kneeling issue and the NFL's acceptance of it, made me realize how dumb it is to spend 3 hours a Sunday watching a bunch of Genetic freaks/overpaid millionaires play a kids game.

I won't be back.

chickelit said...

Maybe the more upset players can invent a new signal unrelated to kneeling such as giving the finger or raising their fist.

Sebastian said...

Headline: "NFL Gives In To Trump On Kneeling"

So much winning.

chickelit said...

Or they can always just cup their nuts like Obama did.

Gahrie said...

If the players make this their hill to die on it will kill the golden goose. At this point there is really nothing the owners or the commissioner can do. If the players cooperate, the NFL has a chance to survive. Baseball managed to win its followers back. If the players rebel, there's going to be a flood of bouncers on the market.

Tank said...

The Jets coach has already announced that his players can do what they want and he'll pay the fine.

So there.

It's too late. The genie is out of the bottle. The fans see what the NFL is. They hate white people, they hate the country and they give players, mostly black men, brain damage.

rhhardin said...

Honoring you country, your nation and your history isn't a fetish...it's a responsibility.

It's a fetish. You want the military to train for team action over individual action, and the flag ceremonies are a way to do that. It's not good for civilians. You want cynics there.

Sports teams use it because it gets the crowd to stop milling around, shut up and pay attention. There are self-appointed enforcers in the crowd who help them out. It's a marketing gimmick.

Every politician giving a speech is backed by 12 flags. That ought to tell you how trivial it is.

Clyde said...

Good. People have a right to free speech, and to protest perceived injustices, but they don't have a right to do it in the workplace. Let protest off the clock, on their own time, to their hearts' content.

Birkel said...

Too little.
Too late.

Gahrie said...

It's a fetish. You want the military to train for team action over individual action, and the flag ceremonies are a way to do that. It's not good for civilians. You want cynics there.

Humans deal in symbols. We always have....they control our thoughts about, and interactions with, the world around us. Flags do not just exist as military symbols. They represent nations and countries. They represent cultures and shared histories. They remind us of who we are, together. The symbols we honor are about more than politics, even if politicians use and abuse them.

There is a reason the Left has attacked the American flag for the last sixty years. There is a reason why Lefty activists have designed and used flags for their own movements. We used to have a process of Americanization in our schools, that worked on the native and the immigrant. Today we have a process of de-Americanization....and this is one more attempt to weaken America.

Doug said...

This may be a dumb question ... but why don't NBA players kneel for the national anthem? Not one of'em. Though not a fan myself, I believe the NBA has some black players, don't they? Are those fellows insufficiently black?

rhhardin said...

Flags do not just exist as military symbols. They represent nations and countries.

That makes it good for military drills. Drum that individuality out.

Individuality is good for civilians though.

Who is trying to get you to stand still and why, ought to be the universal civilian question.

I can go for years and years without needing to honor a flag.

The left uses it because it bothers the right. It ought to mean nothing special to either.

Flags are to mark post offices and embassies abroad.

Tom T. said...

Do they even play the anthem before NBA games?

Birkel said...

Nobody will out-sperg rhhardin. It's not possible.

Gahrie said...

Flags do not just exist as military symbols. They represent nations and countries.

That makes it good for military drills. Drum that individuality out.

Individuality is good for civilians though.


Really? So we should have nothing that draws us together, that represents us as a people, a nation? We're just a random assortment of individual humans with nothing in common? We have no shared identity?

That's exactly what the Left wants you to believe...that has been their goal for over 100 years! But part of being an American is being proud to be an individual, with the right to think and talk and vote anyway you please. With the right to live your life as you would, as long as you do not bloody my nose.

Being an American is something to be proud of, and should, and needs to be celebrated and honored.

Gahrie said...

This may be a dumb question ... but why don't NBA players kneel for the national anthem? Not one of'em. Though not a fan myself, I believe the NBA has some black players, don't they? Are those fellows insufficiently black?

One did..about ten years back. The league punished the player and the team and it hasn't happened again.

Gahrie said...

We owe honoring America and its symbols to all of the future generations of Americans.

Birkel said...

Gahrie,
Other than arguing against Asperger's sufferers, are you in the habit of arguing with the demented? Two year olds?

rhhardin sometimes has a brilliant point so I read him. But trying to talk with him is a sucker's bet.

Bad Lieutenant said...

RH,

"Ceremony keeps up things: 'tis like a penny glass to a rich spirit, or some excellent water; without it the water were spilt, and the spirit lost."

John Selden



Birkel,

rhhardin sometimes has a brilliant point so I read him. But trying to talk with him is a sucker's bet.


Who here thinks that RH could pass a Turing test?

Unknown said...

If they believe in sanctuary cities they will have the stones to kneel and get fined. I won’t be watching anyway, but I’d like to see how committed they are when they start losing paychecks. Losing paychecks is a wonderful attention getter.

Birkel said...

Bad Lieutenant:
Not sure about the Turing test, but I'd buy the drinks to watch rhhardin get drunk.

mockturtle said...

Goodell crapped on what was a sound decision by remarking that people had wrongly understood the kneeling athletes to be unpatriotic. Yeah. OUR misunderstanding. What a schmuck.

Gahrie said...

Goodell crapped on what was a sound decision by remarking that people had wrongly understood the kneeling athletes to be unpatriotic. Yeah. OUR misunderstanding. What a schmuck.

They didn't kneel for the announcement of the player's names, they didn't kneel for the coin toss, or the opening kick off...they knelt during the national anthem. They were intentionally disrespecting our national symbols as a protest against America.

FIDO said...

Two years of reduced revenue at least. And if the majority of the players stay in the locker room, that is just as pungent a symbol, particularly when the one or two white boys or vets DO come out and stand for the anthem.

At this point, a no show is a kneel because people are STILL paying attention.

I think they will still face a minimum of 20% down revenue.

readering said...

Why do NFL athletes protest before games? Watch the Sterling Brown arrest video.

rhhardin said...

So we should have nothing that draws us together, that represents us as a people, a nation?

We just draw together. What holds us together is the rules, namely the Constitution.

A large part of which is, mind your own business.

rhhardin said...

Being an American is something to be proud of, and should, and needs to be celebrated and honored.

No it isn't. If you agree to the rules, you're an American. Nothing about flag fetishes.

Ralph L said...

Half the ones who were standing were grabbing their collars or moving around, even before they started patting the kneelers.

Another union drives its industry into the ground.

rhhardin said...

We owe honoring America and its symbols to all of the future generations of Americans.

We owe following the rules to future generations, not flag drills. If anything we owe freedom from flag fetishes to future generations.

Rick said...

I think this is a pretty good resolution, except any player not complying should be suspended for that game.

Birkel said...

Spergy goodness.

rhhardin said...

The only plus in flag fetishes is that sometimes, where the homeowners' association prohibits antennas, they allow flag poles, and you can put out a stealth antenna in the form of a flag pole. Flag poles that are 33 feet high are particularly good, a quarter wave on 40m.

Birkel said...

Fetishes and rhhardin go together like ass and burgers.

Michael K said...

If anything we owe freedom from flag fetishes to future generations.

Oh, for the days of universal military training.

Francisco D said...

This was not a smart decision.

Banning it makes it more appealing.

rhhardin said...

Oh, for the days of universal military training.

Right, it's a military thing.

Birkel said...

Back to the issue that matters:
The NFL is rightsizing itself. The NFL was king. The NFL television contracts were enormous. ESPN grew by promoting the NFL.

Those trends are reversed. The NFL has been a terrible steward of its own interests. Choosing to kill the goose that lays golden eggs is a fable for a reason. This is not the first time people have made terrible business decisions.

The NFL is dead to me.

Achilles said...

I love watching rhhardin talk to himself on these threads.

You are yelling at clouds.

Achilles said...

Francisco D said...
This was not a smart decision.

Banning it makes it more appealing.


They had no choice. They were losing a lot of money.

Francisco D said...

"They had no choice. They were losing a lot of money.

I have to disagree, Achilles.

If I were an owner, it would be my responsibility to manage my employees. I would fine first time kneelers and get rid of them after the second time. They have no purpose other than virtue signaling. IMHO, most NFL players are not capable of mustering a reasonable argument for their actions. They need to be engaged at a simple reward/punishment level.

By putting the individual owners responsibilities onto the NFL, they have made these idiots into martyrs fighting The Man. Kneeling will become more popular, encourage by leftist sports writers. What does the NFL do next?

It is a decision that individual owners need to take personal responsibility for.

Anonymous said...

"readering said...

"Why do NFL athletes protest before games? Watch the Sterling Brown arrest video."

Okay, in a country of 350 million people, one bad thing happened. Or maybe three. Or maybe three a month. That's not worth protesting. Isolated bad things will always happen; protesting won't change that.

The protesters themselves actually understand that, which is why they're always yammering about "institutional racism." But the officers in the Sterling Brown incident were disciplined, which is as it should be. And I'm not aware of any lack of training or other institutional defect that caused the incident.

So go ahead, readering, point me to a video of institutional racism.

Quaestor said...

Or they can always just cup their nuts like Obama did.

In republican Rome, such a gesture was held to be as solemn as our hand-over-heart salute. It implied truthfulness and rectitude and is the source of the English verb to testify.

Jon Ericson said...

The Parliaments

robother said...

Compelled feigned respect is worse than open contempt. At least last year you could see which NFL players actually respected the country and flag. Now, who knows? We may assume that most black players do not, in the absence of uncompelled evidence to the contrary. Which will hardly solve the NFL's declining attendance/viewership problem..

Yancey Ward said...

Trump 1, NFL 0.

stevew said...

Yawn.

-sw

Jeff Brokaw said...

I'm with rcocean 7:13pm - the way the NFL "leadership" handled this issue was the tipping point for me, although far from the first thing tbst annoyed me about the league and how it is run.

So now my Sundays are mine again. I'll flip on a Bears game or some other game for a bit, watch ten minutes, and then think of something better to do. Too many commercials, too many ridiculous rules, penalties and delays reviewing them only to still get them wrong, too many idiotic uniform rules while officially encouragingly players to spend the entire month of October wearing goofy pink gear, etc.

The league is run by lawyers and it shows. No Fun League, indeed.

Jeff Brokaw said...

Football is a great sport in a lot of ways, fought by brave warriors who sacrifice individual for team, and I am still a fan of it, mostly.

Although the CTE thing bothers me a lot and makes it harder to watch, even at the HS level (two of my sons played youth and HS football for years) with the knowledge that these warriors are taking years off their lives and guaranteeing that some of them will end up with CTE and horrible quality of life. Kinda hard to put that thought out of your head ... and the league took an awfully long time to confront the issue.

Youth and HS football are already slowly dying due mostly to this one issue, with participation numbers way down here in the Chicago area. It's simply a matter of time before the pipeline dries up for college, then the NFL.

PackerBronco said...

You knew that the NFL had jumped the shark when the networks hired former referees to explain how the rules were interpreted. I no longer knew whether I was watching a game or "Judge Judy".

PackerBronco said...

point me to a video of institutional racism.

Go to any video in which colleges promote "days without white people"

William said...

Why is police brutality the only issue worthy of a protest? Why can't those who think the taxes on capital gains should be lowered take a knee? As a matter of fact, it should now be mandatory for all Americans, save for those few who are 100% behind every act of the U.S. Government, to take a knee in order to demonstrate their limited and conditional patriotism, which is, of course, the highest form of patriotism.

mockturtle said...

Jeff Brokaw addresses the other big NFL bogeyman: Injuries, both on the field and decades later. Compared to those of early football, today's players are bigger, faster and more solid. It's simple physics to understand how injuries happen. Once of these behemoths falls on your knee, it's toast.

I love football and still watch the college games but my interest is waning.

glenn said...

“The option to stay off the field remains available”
As does my option exercised when Felon Michael Vick was reinstated to not watch. Ever.

Anonymous said...

rh: We just draw together. What holds us together is the rules, namely the Constitution.

A large part of which is, mind your own business.


Gawd, not this retarded shit again.

Maybe one of these days you can enlighten us as to who this mystical "we" is you keep invoking, these "Americans" who are all in agreement about "the rules".

So all those millions of American citizens out there these days who want to gut the first and second amendments, who absolutely don't want to "mind their own business", who are drunk on identity politics, etc., etc, etc., aren't real Americans (no matter how indignant they become at the suggestion), because they don't agree with you about what the rules should be, and sure as hell aren't willing to leave you in peace.

OK, fine. Now what?

When "the Constitution" has become a gnostic document, whose true (legally enforceable) meaning resides up some partisan judge's butt, then it, too, is merely symbolic, and invoking it is invoking a fetish.

Even the stupidest, whoriest propositionnationofimmigrants cuckservative has been known to be dimly aware (even if on only one out of every 365 days), that law is rooted in culture and not vice-versa.

Jeff Brokaw said...

Mockturtle - exactly right, it is all about the physics of mass and velocity overwhelming the equipment and natural protection, and I use that exact explanation when talking with people about this. We've reached and then exceeded the limits on this one, the players are MUCH bigger and faster than ever before, but I'm not sure how you put that genie back in the bottle.

In the future, I suspect players in HS and college who are smart and have a real future in other avenues of life will, more and more, drop out of the sport (or choose others) instead of staying with it, so over time the sport of football will find itself populated with nothing but pure athletes and extreme risk-takers who have literally no other options in life. So the quality of the people is going down, not up.

A slight exaggeration, maybe, but there it is.

Doug said...


"Why do NFL athletes protest before games? Watch the Sterling Brown arrest video."

So why DON'T NBA players protest during the national anthem? Are they insufficiently black?

Scott M said...

Ace said it best. The NFL puts on a show and the director or producer can absolutely tell the performers what they can and can't do while the show is on.

Known Unknown said...

"We owe honoring America and its symbols to all of the future generations of Americans."

The question to me is whether football games are the appropriate place to do such a thing. I agree with some of what you're saying and some of what rhardin is saying. I don't want to live in a country that relies too heartily on symbology as empty propaganda. That's why I can cheer Rick Monday for saving the flag but also not support a flag-burning amendment.

As for the NBA, they have a rule that forbids players from doing what Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (née Chris Jackson) did.

Bad Lieutenant said...

readering said...

"Why do NFL athletes protest before games? Watch the Sterling Brown arrest video."




What should anyone down, then, if they were to watch a video of the beyond-brutal murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom?

Bay Area Guy said...

There are two primary ways to destroy a house: (1) a hurricane-type, traumatic, external event or (2) termites burrowing within for years, causing structural damage, while an enabling homeowner does nothing.

The Left is like an army of termites.

They want to slowly eat away at the fabric of our country, its traditions and institutions.

They'd stop playing the National Anthem, if they could. They don't believe in it. And, they get astounded when there is push-back from folks, who actually want to preserve the fabric and institutions of the country. We actually do take care of the house, and spray the termites.

So, a few millionaire big NFL athletes have to stand respectfully for the flag, for a few minutes. Tough shit. Stand up straight, and then, on your own time, go protest away to your heart's desire.

Jim at said...

Way too little. Way too late.
Haven't watch a minute in two seasons.
I have no plans to start again anytime soon.

There are simply much better things to do.