(Here's the article that went up yesterday.)
1. Kanye West seems to have put up a photo of his computer that showed he had a tab for a Jordan Peterson video, so either he was watching a Jordan Peterson video, or he was considering watching a Jordan Peterson video, or he or somebody touching that computer wanted to make it look as though he was watching a Jordan Peterson video. The Jordan Peterson/Kanye West combination is awesomely exciting/terrifyingly powerful/mindcrushingly lame.
2. Video is the key to Peterson's success because — these are Peterson's words — "it turns out that people can listen to things they can’t read." People who won't read "challenging books" — WaPo's words — will, for some reason, listen to Peterson lectures that go on for hours.
3. Peterson is speaking to men. Women can listen in and try to get some useful tips, but the intended audience is men, men, men, those little weasels, those "weak... [s]louchers, slackers, chumps, low-status dudes who have amassed."
4. Some developmental psychologist was found to deliver the accusation that Peterson "takes a really simplistic approach toward gender inequality" and gives what "feels like a dressed-up version of misogyny." How does one get to be "simplistic" and "dressed up" at the same time? The text on its face is hinky.
5. Peterson's Rule #1 is "Stand up straight with your shoulders back," but he's "slow to offer direct eye contact, prone to gazing downward" and "seems too immersed in big thoughts to be bothered by what’s in front of him" and, "[d]uring the photo session in the park," he "semi-slumps."
6. Peterson sometimes moves himself to cry and leaves the "unwiped tears" on his face. We're told he's subject to "severe depression" and has been on antidepressants.
7. The selected item of evidence in support of the proposition that Peterson "appears temperamentally incapable of picking his battles" is that he attacked Elmo — "I always hated that creepy, whiny puppet." But — I just checked — Peterson doesn't randomly attack Elmo. He's telling a story about an inept father who complains about his inability to get his son to go to sleep at night but has been rewarding the child's recalcitrance by putting on an Elmo video. The sideswipe at Elmo was a bit of comic relief. The main problem was the father and his decision to show any video to the child, but the fact that the father showed Elmo gave some color to the story. Lest we think Elmo was at least good choice if you're going to show a child a video, Peterson calls Elmo "creepy" and "whiny" and — WaPo left this out — "a disgrace to Jim Henson’s legacy." I presume Peterson could speak for an hour on that topic.
8. Despite efforts to connect Peterson to the right wing, WaPo highlights his opposition to what Donald Trump supposedly represents. It quotes the one mention of Trump in the "12 Rules" book: "If 'men are pushed too hard to feminize,' he writes, 'they will become more and more interested in harsh, fascist political ideology.' He argues that 'the populist groundswell of support for Donald Trump in the U.S. is part of the same process.'"
9. Peterson gave up religious belief when he was a teenager but he lectures at immense length on the “Psychological Significance of the Biblical Stories."
10. He's very sensitive about food and believes he got off antidepressants by changing his diet, which seems to be "meat, salad and water... with only turmeric and salt for flavor." His daughter promotes the diet on line, here. He calls the diet "ridiculous," and I agree. The only fruit on the diet is olives!
11. The highest-rated comment at WaPo is: "As soon as I read Kanye was a fan, I could have stopped reading. Unfortunately, I kept reading. Victimhood is a left wing problem? Trump and the alt-right thrive on victimhood. I am a white male. I enjoyed a great advantage in life. When I started my professional life, 'girls' still had to prove themselves the equals of men. No, I am not that old. This was the 1990's."
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74 comments:
When I started my professional life. I worked for women. I think I'm older than that guy.
When I started my professional life, 'girls' still had to prove themselves the equals of men.
We all know men can never be equal to women because women can have babies.
I voted for Trump, and I positively live for "harsh, fascist political ideology".
What an ignorant, stupid ass thing to say.
I find Peterson mostly unwatchable, so I'm a great guy.
Peterson says we all need a purpose. Therefore, intentionally destroying men's purpose is a mass enemy assault most of us. Do the EDU creeps think men will not fight back?
Hinky! Last time I heard that word was during the movie, "The Fugitive."
I will make a prediction right now. Althouse will, at some point, become the female version of Jordan Peterson.
She will publish her novel or she will start doing videos explaining the Althouse feminist philosophy.
For those of you who consider my predictions far fetched, I predicted that Kyle Korver and Doug McDermott would be basketball stars the first time I saw them play. Both are in the NBA right now.
I should clarify. Althouse will become as famous as Jordan Peterson.
People are starved for good content and fresh takes. That's Ann in spades.
https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/movie_script.php?movie=fugitive-the
search for hinky
When I started my professional life, 'girls' still had to prove themselves the equals of men.
So this guy was never called upon to prove himself. Must have been the boss' son.
Peterson would be a lot better with a comments section.
"5. Peterson's Rule #1 is "Stand up straight with your shoulders back," but he's "slow to offer direct eye contact, prone to gazing downward" and "seems too immersed in big thoughts to be bothered by what’s in front of him" and, "[d]uring the photo session in the park," he "semi-slump."
6. Peterson sometimes moves himself to cry and leaves the "unwipe tears" on his face. We're told he's subject to "severe depression" and has been on antidepressants."
Wait, so Peterson is just like the losers he's talking to? He is a beta heartiste.
"7. WaPo left this out" You mean, like, the WaPo "journalist" misrepresented him and his words? Say it ain't so.
"8. "If 'men are pushed too hard to feminize,' he writes, 'they will become more and more interested in harsh, fascist political ideology.' He argues that 'the populist groundswell of support for Donald Trump in the U.S. is part of the same process.'"" Exactly what is fascist about Trump? The violence has come from the left. The fasces are aimed at him.
"I am a white male. I enjoyed a great advantage in life. When I started my professional life, 'girls' still had to prove themselves the equals of men. No, I am not that old. This was the 1990's.""
This is BS in the sense that institutions already catered to girls long before. It is true in the sense that girls had to prove themselves equals and in some major fields couldn't do it or didn't want to do it. (Of course, once they had achieved equality or overrepresentation in a field, that field ceased to matter in feminist calculations.)
When I started my professional life, 'girls' still had to prove themselves the equals of men
When I started, the girls were doing the same job (programming) without feeling they had to prove anything.
The differences turned up in what they drifted into programming. Guys went for physics and math. Girls stayed pretty much with what they were given.
Both Vox Day and Adam Piggott have discussed Peterson, and both think he is a liberal fraud. I tend to find their arguments convincing, but I hold out for a while until I've read his book.
I also abhor whiny, annoying Elmo. He's only a small step up from Caillou. Plus he talks in third person more than Bob Dole.
When my kids were younger, I plopped them down in front of Sesame Street, as you do, and they wouldn't watch it. They hated it. At first, I couldn't figure out why, but eventually I noticed it had turned into the "all Elmo, all the time. With a side of Abby" show. I started showing them YouTube clips of classic Sesame Street skits instead (Super Grover, Sherlock Hemlock, Don Music, Harvey Kneeslapper, the Martians, etc.). They loved those and asked for more.
If it is from the Washington post, it is a lie.
Love the simpering virtue shining commenter. What a turd.
The outrage at Peterson is understandable. He is speaking in plain language and using common sense. He is not deconstructing anything, his success is an outrage to beta men, a threat to their precious stories.
But of course. Men cannot be victims. Blacks cannot be racists. Liberals cannot be intolerant.
These are all part of the canon of the Liberal Left.
You want more Trump? This is how you get more Trump.
I am reading Twelve Rules now. I don't think that he is a liberal fraud,but he does belabor and frequently digress. He also mentions Trump another time where he is talking about how beautiful women are very often attracted to high status men. I think he said that a man would do better with women by raising his status than by going to the gym.
He could have used a sympathetic editor.
The ridiculous diet is because Peterson has some kind of autoimmune disease. He looks sick and slouchy in a lot of videos because he actually is sick. At first glance, it looks like he's following an AIP protocol. His daughter's looks like she went on an elimination diet and decided not to try adding things back.
His daughter has some kind of autoimmune arthritis and had to have her hip and ankle replaced when she was a teen.
How can anyone possibly "learn" anything from a WaPo article?
They are spinmeisters for the Left and the DNC. With the NYT they villianize threats to their dominant narrative.
Dr. Peterson is a common sense, well educated centrist who threatens the progressive narrative, so they selectively pick out points that make him look bad.
They tell the reader nothing about the cogent points that he has made, particularly about how Neo-Marxists have made postmodernism a dominant ideology in academia.
I commend his courage. We have similar training, but I chose to quit the academic route in 1989. Good decision!
Going to the gym is way easier than raising one's status, and chicks, the guardians of the gene pool, key on men who can do difficult things. He points out that only 40 percent of men in the history of humanity have reproduced, while the vast majority of women have.
I wonder if modern feminism is fixing that imbalance?
I don't see what he said about Trump as particularly out there or untrue. There are plenty of way stations on the road to fascist ideology, there is more than one road, and some of them are way more direct than others. Trumpism is a way station on one of the more indirect routes to fascist ideology. So is Obamaism. So is the so-called 'personal ideology' of most presidents. It's almost banal to point it out, really.
I've enjoyed Peterson's podcasts on the Bible. He often takes a long time to get to the point, but then I have a long commute. It beats NPR or commercial radio.
I'm also trying to reread Asimov's Guide to the Bible. Great context setting.
rhhardin said...
https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/movie_script.php?movie=fugitive-the
search for hinky
5/3/18, 8:05 AM
Others if us just remember what we watch.
I'd say Peterson is a "classic" liberal intellectual in the old pre-PC sense of openness to diversity of thought. He does drift off focus frequently and I don't think he fully pursues his ideas toward their natural ends. That said, he has breathed new life onto the cultural conversation by championing self-reliance.
Depression!?!?!
He's been peaking behind the curtain, staring into the sun, wrestling with thoughts that refuse to resolve for far too long. I wish him well.
Despite his bloated prose, he draws a lot of conclusions without examining alternative explanations. For instance, the fact that only 40 percent of men have reproduced could be down to intra-male dominance hierarchies.
The outrage at Peterson is understandable. He is speaking in plain language and using common sense.
UNLIMINAL!
When I started my professional life, 'girls' still had to prove themselves the equals of men.
I wonder what his profession is? In the 1970s, this was true in STEM — my girlfriend (later my fiancé and for the past forty plus years my wife) overheard her dissertation adviser tell another professor that if you give a woman a Ph.D. she’ll just take s job from some guy who needs to feed his family. Her dissertation adviser! (She did change advisers.) But by the 1990s even programmers — the most asocial profession on earth — accepted women as their equals.
Others if us just remember what we watch.
I remember a lot of lines but didn't remember that. It didn't strike me as exceptional.
He never says it, but IMHO, he makes a decent case that depression is adaptive. If you cheer up a lobster with Prozac, he continues to pick fights with dominant lobsters and could easily get himself killed. Depressed lobsters avoid this behavior.
I've enjoyed Peterson's podcasts on the Bible.
Try Levinas _Difficult Freedom_ chapter "A Religion for Adults."
But by the 1990s even programmers — the most asocial profession on earth — accepted women as their equals.
Women were already top programmers in the 60s, but were system programmers. Systems programming is where they migrated to, rather than math and physics programming.
He also kind of avers that women let the patriarchy sort out the winners among men and then high quality women cream skim. Not directly, of course.
The Wapo article is just an example of the culture Peterson is criticizing - lazy superficiality about clothes and posture replacing honest engagement with ideas.
I've watched snippets of Peterson's videos but that's about it. However, given the amount of animosity he's engendered among the Hive makes me want to know more. Anyone who's causing such distress to the stupidest and worse people on Earth must be doing something right.
I found nothing in your 11 item list that would make want to be a reader of the WAPO, most especialy item 11.
When I graduated with my BA in finance and business economics in the early 80s (with honors) the department chair (male) told me I would make a good secretary. I paid my way though college using my typing skills. I thought he was a jerk and went on with my life.
W Chadwick and others are correct - whatever Petersons faults in detail (and YMMV), the reaction of the liberal MSM and academia shows that he is having a salutary effect. It does not matter who knocks down the castle gates, or how.
Vox Day and the like are rather nit-picky and have their own crochets.
Marx wanted to tear down the patriarchy by making women sluts who did not care about the status of their sexual partners.
Comparative advantage example used by economists: The secretary of the economics department delivers papers to the dean, even though the head of the economics department walks faster than the secretary.
If nothing else survives the current buzz about Peterson, his simple phrase, "No, that's not what I said" should be repeated over and over and over to those who misstate the opposition's position.
When does Peterson get his turn in the #metoo barrel ? It's a miracle it hasn't happened already.
David Begley said...
Hinky! Last time I heard that word was during the movie, "The Fugitive."
I used "hinky" in this blog on Dec 31, 2017 and it appears 26 other times as well, so I probably just copied it.
Trump ~ harsh, fascist political ideology
That's a foolish association. "Dear Colleague" Obummer was far more fascistic than Trump.
“Psychological Significance of the Biblical Stories."
They've mostly been replaced by, or evolved into, in the "meme" sense, modern morality plays - Batman, Star Wars, political tales, etc., which is fortunate because bible stories are pretty damned lame.
antidepressants ...meat, salad and water... with only turmeric and salt for flavor
His special diet - no hunter-gatherers allowed - seems to have been more efficacious to this stereotypically kinda-nutty psychologist than bible stories, standing up straight, etc.
When I started my professional life, 'girls' still had to prove themselves the equals of men. No, I am not that old. This was the 1990's."
In 1990, when I was interviewing for a position at a brokerage firm as a financial advisor (stockbroker, financial planning, sales etc) there were a lot of standard questions.
Two of those standard questions were:
What do you see as being your biggest obstacle to success?
My answer: Being a woman as many men and women also may not have the confidence that I would be competent. I would have to realize that they are skeptical and work harder to gain trust.
Later....what qualities do you think will help you be successful?
My answer: Being a woman as there are certain segments of clients who would prefer to work with and have more trust in women such as elderly (rich)women and some married couples. They would like the empathy and personal touch that a woman can bring to the table.
I got the position and was told that those answers sealed the deal because it showed I was realistic about myself, the industry and had a good insight into client's psychology. The interviewer was actually surprised that I said, out loud, what everyone else was thinking and knew to be the truth.
Moral of the story...you may not like the way things are, but if you FACE THE TRUTH of the world, you are much more likely to get along and even get ahead.
If you face the truth, not whine about it, or rail against it, or make yourself a victim of the truth, you are going to be able to HANDLE the TRUTH.
Salad? I'm assuming they mean non-starchy vegetables.
If all you eat is meat, lettuce, and cucumbers - you'll look sickly.
Leftists are so boring. Anything that doesn't support "The Narrative" must be attacked and destroyed.
Always.
The “tall poppy syndrome” and the left’s inability to engage outside the parameters defined by their template and their tiny reptilian brains —exemplified by the Kathy Newman interview — require that Peterson be taken down.
There is no reason to believe that most of his detractors have read his book.
That is a very severe diet. He could use a good functional medicine practitioner to help him sort out his autoimmune reaction to foods and other contributing factors.
Can anyone tell me what 'meaning' means, as in "the meaning of life"? Honest question.
I actually haven't read or listened to much of Jordan Peterson, but what I have I've mostly agreed with. I'll eventually get around to reading his book.
As others upthread and elsewhere have pointed out (from the perspective of someone who most likely agrees with many of his various arguments) what's interesting about Jordan Peterson isn't so much the man himself, but people's response and reaction to his arguments. He has obviously hit more than a few nerves. Given how often he's been mischaracterized and misinterpreted it's obvious that he's generated a lot of fear in certain quarters. He seems to be pissing off all the right people.
I sent my daughter, who is a. Bernie vot.er, a copy of his. "12Rules" book a nd w.ondered if she would read it. She called two days a ft er it arrived to tell me how much she loved it.
Can anyone tell me what 'meaning' means, as in "the meaning of life"? Honest question.
It expresses a desire for an origin term that doesn't itself depend on other stuff.
Is it just my imagination, or are the highest-rated comments at WaPo usually the most clueless ones?
Thanks, rhhardin!
I've seen some of his lectures. He truly does look and talk like a deep thinker. This persona is enhanced also by the fact that he utters deep thoughts. The way he stares down at the floor and listens intensely to the other person's points also encourages one to believe he's a deep thinker.......He's definitely not superficial or manipulative in the way he argues his points. I've read some critiques that try to make him out to be some kind of light weight. That's definitely not true. The people who make such arguments are the converse of the kind of people who represent Stormy Daniels as someone in selfless pursuit of truth and justice...... .....I've resisted reading his book. I'm old. I would find it terribly depressing to discover, at this stage of my life, the sure fire rules that would make my life worthy and fulfilled.
RE: "It turns out that people can listen to things they can’t read."
I spend more than two hours a day on the road -- driving. When I'm not listening to music, I'm listening to great speakers (esp. podcasts) and audible books. I read well, but I utilize reading time for technical material that includes charts, graphs, or formulas.
Yes, he sometimes uses too many words.
Yes, he sometimes veers off course.
Yes, he sometimes fails to explore some other possible answers.
But he does two things:
1. He fights. "No, that's not what I said..." is damn near his catch phrase.
2. He makes all of the right people uncomfortable.
None of my criticisms above should be construed as a warning against his book. I really like it.
"Peterson is speaking to men. Women can listen in and try to get some useful tips, but the intended audience is men, men, men, those little weasels, those "weak... [s]louchers, slackers, chumps, low-status dudes who have amassed.""
Yeah, probably not for all the mass of women out there who have amassed a lot of mass and not to forget the lightweights either.
A lot of police officers still use the descriptive word "hinky" regarding someone's behavior. Its use has greatly declined but you still hear it.
He's far more credible as a deep thinker than the WaPo reporter is as a disinterested journalist.
I loved his book (which I listened to on Audible) and bought a hard copy for my niece who is a clinical psychologist. She has (so far) enjoyed it (she has two very young children and I gave her the book based on her desire for knowledge about the Biblical stories and their meaning AND Peterson's contention that a mother has the opportunity to do the most for her children between the ages of two and four). I was first introduced to him via the infamous Cathy Newman interview and admire him for his standing up against compelled speech in Canada. Further reading (and listening to his videos during my daily walks) has jumpstarted an interest in the Gulag A. (which I am now listening to) and I love Peterson's take on Marxism (to paraphrase, "Sorry, that was tried and tens of millions died as a result and you don't get the chance to bring it out again with the rationale that 'it would have worked with the right person in charge'). I plan on reading (or listening to) his "Maps of Meaning" when I have time.
"Can anyone tell me what 'meaning' means, as in "the meaning of life"? Honest question."
Meaning means the answer to a question. The meaning of life is the answer to the question, why does life not suck? Which also answers your question, increasing its cash value, William James-like.
Of course, you may not find that question meaningful. Your question may be, why should I worry about whether life sucks or not?
That way incommensurability lies.
You'll find out when you're older.
What does it all mean ?
Maybe he hates Elmo because he sounds like Kermit.
Jordan Peterson believes that Western Civilization is both unique and valuable and that its foundational document is the Old Testament and the spoken stories that came before it. That's enough to get him hated by many many people
"Trump ~ harsh, fascist political ideology. . . "
You mean he wants the State to control the economy? And emphasize the collective over the individual? And probably issue some draconic controls on private ownership of firearms, as well.
Yeah, totally unlike "liberals."
Hitler was huge on the sanctity of borders and each nation's right to self determination, like Trump, right?
Rh answered my question great, BTW.
Basically, ya gotta bootstrap meaning.
Typical WaPo hatchet job. These have to be the most ignorant, close-minded people on Earth. They never learn because they refuse to even consider anything that doesn't map exactly to where they were in high school.
Dust Bunny Queen: " FACE THE TRUTH of the world, you are much more likely to get along and even get ahead. "
I was on a second interview for a Director of Transportation position at a Community College in S. IL., and the VP asked me how would I handle a difficult employee? I gave the standard supervision and management answer 101, to which she then asked, what if that isn't working? So I go deeper into performance based issues, documentation, etc. And she then says, "But what if he's really bad?" So now I'm thinking I may not want the job. I pause and finally say, "I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do - we'll work it out." She kind of reels back and says, "Really?!?" I nod. I got the job, and he was a doozy. He had an affair with one of the office staff, several drivers, he dated and still had a relationship with the President of the Union...it took me two years to get rid of him.
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