April 15, 2018

"Hip-hop has a misogyny problem and Drake’s new bounce-infused ode to women is not going to fix it."

Writes Shannon Lee in WaPo:
Rap stars are notorious for releasing music that belies their claim of being feminist or pro-women. In March, rapper and producer Pharrell Williams presented an award during the iHeartRadio Music Awards wearing a jacket that read “Women’s Rights” in honor of Women’s History Month and then performed "Lemon" on a stage full of women covered in glitter and twerking in their underwear.

There are larger implications. Hip-hop has not had its #MeToo moment, but allegations made by and against some of its biggest players suggest its time is coming...
I'm adding the tags for this post, and the first one I think of is "hypocrisy" — hip-hopcrisy. But I do think it's important to see art as different from a political statement, especially when the political statement relates to sexuality. Art should be complex and not propaganda, and sexuality should and will survive independently from the various political messages that have something to do with sex. If you're going to attack the male hip-hop artists for their use of sexy women in their performance, you'd better also attack the female artists for their use of sexy women — especially if your theme is hypocrisy. Don't be a hypocrisy hypocrite. That's the worst kind.

Here's that Drake video:



Side question: What is bounce music?
Bounce music is an energetic style of New Orleans hip hop music which is said to have originated as early as the late 1980s.... Bounce is characterized by call-and-response-style party and Mardi Gras Indian chants and dance call-outs that are frequently hypersexual.... The sound of bounce has primarily been shaped by the recycling and imitation of the "Drag Rap" sample.... Typical of bounce music is the "shouting out" of or acknowledgment of geographical areas, neighborhoods and housing projects, particularly of the New Orleans area....

70 comments:

Meade said...

Biggest hypocrite in modern history: (hint: her name begins with "Crooked")

Fernandistien said...

women covered in glitter and twerking in their underwear.

Those wimmin-folk should be at home, barefoot and pregnant.

Bay Area Guy said...

Hip-Hop has a misogyny problem?

Darn, the liberal use of "Bitches" and "Hos," is no longer allowed.
That's not fair. It will stifle my creative flow, dude.

Sebastian said...
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Sebastian said...

"you'd better also attack the female artists for their use of sexy women"

You mean, like, the same standards should apply to men and women? Sorry, that's sexist. Just as "color-blindness" is racist.

Anyway, progs don't do consistency. Like ethics and linguistics, logic is just a tool.

BDNYC said...

Tupac was prosecuted for rape. Dr. Dre beat up journalist Dee Barnes. Russell Simmons has been accused of rape multiple times. Etc.

I admit I haven’t listened to rap much since the early 2000’s, but I’ve never heard anything remotely pro-woman in the lyrics. Lots of bitches, hoes, rape fantasies and smack her up nonsense though.

Earnest Prole said...

I just want to state for the hip-hop record: I like big butts and I cannot lie.

Bill Owens said...

" Art should be complex and not propaganda,..."
Nah. 'Art' is anything the artist thinks is art. If it gathers admirers, fine. If it doesn't, just as fine.

Marty Keller said...

Slow day in blogging-land, I see. What's next, critiques of rutabaga recipes?

Fernandistien said...

"I wish somebody would tell me what 'diddy-wah-diddy' means..."

"If you don't know by now, lady, don't mess with it!"

Larry Day said...

I've never seen a more boring music video.

Lucien said...

If you're gonna have a tag for this, why not "hip-hopcrisy"?

As a child of the 60's are you really going to argue that song lyrics are not political?

rhhardin said...

Misogyny is misidentified in the PC world.

Biff said...

We've come a long way, baby.

Biff said...

Bay Area Guy said..."Darn, the liberal use of 'Bitches' and 'Hos,' is no longer allowed. That's not fair. It will stifle my creative flow, dude."

Don't worry. You'll still be able to use completely inoffensive words like "N*r," "Motherf*r," and "F*" all you want.

the 4chan Guy who reads Althouse said...

I think the problem with a lot of modern rap isn't that it's misogynistic, it's that it's misogynistic in a bad way.

Back in the day, rap might have been misogynistic, but it still had some innocence to it, it was just dudes that didn't quite get it yet. But now the rap dudes say they get it, but they still do that shit, so now the misogyny is hypocritical, which makes it bad misogyny.

And now it isn't even just rap dudes that do the bad misogyny, rap chicks do it, too.

Like, look at Cardi B: she talks shit about other women being bitches just like the rap dudes do, she makes Kanye look Woke. I'm not saying Kanye is a misogynist because he married Kim Kardashian, but I think you have to have a lot of hate towards women to think she's your soul mate, she's who you fuck if you hate women but don't want to do the gay sex.

Like I said, back in the day it was different and shit. Ice-T would call chicks hos, but that was because he was a certified pimp, the chicks really were prostitutes, so calling them hos might've been a bit harsh, but it wasn't apples and oranges.

But now the rap dudes calling chicks hos aren't even real pimps, they just act like they want to be pimps, which black dudes can do but white dudes can't, so there's another issue right there.

A while ago Miley Cyrus was getting shit because she was twerking, and she had black dancers twerking with her, so she was culturally appropriating and shit. But now they're acting like twerking may be misogynist sometimes, too, so I think it comes down to black women twerking if they want to is OK, but black women twerking because the rap dudes want them to isn't, even if the rap dudes are paying them to be in the video and twerk and shit.

There was a Geto Boy's track that was called 'Damn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta', which fucking rocked, but back then being a gangsta was tough because you had to watch out for the police and other gangstas and shit. Now you have to watch out for the woke people who say you ain't being a gangsta right, and that sucks.

I post my shit here.

Fernandistien said...

Larry Day said...
I've never seen a more boring music video.


So the video didn't feature colorful male ducks cavorting and raping ?

Bruce Hayden said...

"Darn, the liberal use of "Bitches" and "Hos," is no longer allowed.
That's not fair. It will stifle my creative flow, dude."

I think that we are seeing some more fratricide on the left. That type of music started out being far more misogynistic than any white musicians could get away with. Arguably, it reflects the Black Experience in our country, where the males who are not in prison, and haven't been killed yet, are few enough in Black inner city communities that the females have to put up with their brutal misogyny to get access to the available males. #MeToo requires that this experience be rejected. Won't happen. Already, the left in this country is riddled with hypocrisy. This is just one more example of it.

n.n said...

bigotry - sanctimonious hypocrisy

sykes.1 said...

What ever happened to blacks? At one time, long, long ago, they created the blues, rhythm and blues and jazz. They produced a number of gifted singers like Ella Fitzgerald, Etta James and some actors and dancers. And politicians who were articulate, like MLK (plagiarist that he was).

Now they produce rap, hip-hop crap with absolutely no musical, lyrical or inventive talent on display. They have no distinguished leaders, settling for the clown show put on by Barak and Michelle Obama, Maxine Waters, John Lewis, Jesse Jackson, Jr., and more numerous fools than can be counted. Instead of civil rights they promote race hatred and race war. They justify and defend any crime as long as a black is hurting whitey.

Explain to me in what way George Wallace and Enoch Powell were not prophets sent by God.

Gahrie said...

Rap has degenerated into a thug life formula..."I smoked a joint, I beat my bitch and I killed a cop, so all you niggas better fucking respect me".

Derek Kite said...

Misogyny is now defined as liking women.

Gahrie said...

As a child of the 60's are you really going to argue that song lyrics are not political?

Rap isn't political, it's criminal.

JaimeRoberto said...

The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy weren't misogynist, but they were rotten socialists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Disposable_Heroes_of_Hiphoprisy

LarsPorsena said...

Ah Oh, someone needs to check their white privilege.

SteveR said...

This is all so inconvenient

FIDO said...

Meh.

'Educated' white single women can now trade in Don Draper for Doctor Dre and his 'much more enlightened treatment of bitches'.

One just need to check out the strollers of these White Single Moms at Walmart to see how that generally works out.



Henry said...

Horses cracked me up. Drake's got nothing on those guys that wrote that Old Spice commercial.

TWW said...

Hip Hop artists need only to look to Islam to solve its misogyny problems.

mccullough said...

Some talented lads and lasses, but rap and hip hop are minstrel shows.

David Begley said...

Drake is no Marvin Gaye.

mccullough said...

The misogyny is because the lads hate their mothers. They blame them for their fathers leaving or not being around in the first place. They have a point.

Scott said...

"At the Racism Café..."

Jupiter said...

Whenever I hear Rap "Music", I want to pull out a high-caliber handgun and shoot the person playing it seven or eight times in the head. I assume that effect is intentional. That is, the noxious, insinuating, self-obsessed, insolent whine of the rapper is designed to be intensely annoying to humans.

Etienne said...
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FIDO said...

It seems that three generations without a nuclear family and marriage have had a less than benign attitude on inter-gender relations for some groups.

Who knew? Oh...Conservatives!

mockturtle said...

"Hip-hop has a misogyny problem"

It's not a problem unless people stop buying it.

Etienne said...
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Etienne said...
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mockturtle said...
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William said...

Another cultural phenomenon that I know nothing about. I won't venture an opinion, except to say that this music is probably more listenable than modern jazz. Music to overdose with........From ragtime to Dixieland and onto doowop and bebop, blacks have initiated musical forms that drive whites of a certain age up the wall. I won't pass judgement on hip hop but neither will I listen to it. I think the opposition by older whites is part of its appeal to younger people. I hope the Big Band sound has a resurgence. That's my speed.

Howard said...

The sexism target is ridiculing stereotypical male sexual triggering. It's our safe-space and they want to take it away.

The Cracker Emcee Classic said...

“In either case, both are a peasant activity, which can be sold as entertainment by the Illuminati.”

That’s why I’m not big on deporting illegals. They’re a much better peasantry than the homegrown variety. It’s their kids we need to deport.

eddie willers said...

What ever happened to blacks? At one time, long, long ago, they created the blues, rhythm and blues and jazz.

You've touched on one of my biggest peeves to this undulating, atonal genre.

Many years ago (when I still watched SNL) Snoop Dogg was the 'musical' guest. Anyway, he did this very interesting call & response segment in one of his numbers. And I thought, "You know....this guy could make some good music if he wanted to".

And that's the shame of all this is. There are wonderful musicians hidden forever because they dwell in this desert.

It's like forcing Michelangelo to pick up a spray can and deface buildings with his "art".

Anonymous said...

It sounds a lot like the last rap song I intentionally listened to all the way through 15 years ago : irritatingly repetitive/monotonous musically with no harmonic movement, no tune (Does Drake sing the same note all the way through?), and the same drum machine pattern from start to finish, with all of the above supporting a scattershot "lyric" full n-words, etc. Attitude with a beat. However, the video is pretty slick, and it helps you distinguish this rap "song" from the others.

Is it possible to dumb down pop music any further ?

FIDO said...

Whatever happened to 'Boys to Men'?

Mark said...

I do think it's important to see art as different from a political statement

Not when the "art" is itself deeply political, as most "art" is these days, particularly hip-hop.

Fritz said...

Hey, Joe . . .

Luke Lea said...

I hate rap.

Etienne said...
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Mid-Life Lawyer said...

Democrat > Race (race means only black or occasionally, darker skinned) > LGBT > Women. This is the rule. The only thing greater than race is Democrat. Blacks are significantly greater than women in the hierarchy. Rap artists are 95% black. No problem.

Etienne said...
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Bob Loblaw said...

Hip-hop has not had its #MeToo moment, but allegations made by and against some of its biggest players suggest its time is coming...

#MeToo will not touch hip hop/rap musicians. That would threaten one of the pillars of the Democratic power base. Just like Cindy Sheehan, OWS and the other various press-generated movements, as soon as it begins to make the Democrats uncomfortable all the oxygen will suddenly leave and proponents will be left wondering why the cameras have suddenly disappeared.

Jim at said...

I don't normally disparage people's choices in music because to each his or her own.

But for the life of me, I cannot fathom how some people listen to that crap. And that's what it is. Crap.

Old-school Rap isn't bad.

But hip-hop? It's pure shit.

buwaya said...

One major change in "black music" is that they don't learn instruments anymore. Playing instruments was once very much a black thing, but died out in the 80's.

As explained to me by several middle and high school music teachers in San Francisco. They absolutely cannot get black kids in band or orchestra. Asians, by the horde, and whites, no big problem. Interestingly "hispanics" are becoming more reluctant.

This is reflected I think in the falling market for musical instrument retailers. This SHOULD be well armored against online sales, as you should indeed try before you buy. But the real problem is reduced interest.

YoungHegelian said...

@buwaya,

One major change in "black music" is that they don't learn instruments anymore. Playing instruments was once very much a black thing, but died out in the 80's.

I think a related reason for the drop in quality is that many of the black rappers & hip-hoppers don't grow up singing in church anymore. For the previous generation of black performers, it was common to get their early training & experience singing in church choirs, as did musicians of every other color & ethnicity. Even folks who you'd never suspect (e.g. Pat Benatar).

The instrument playing was often taught at church, too, along with the singing.

I Callahan said...

Whatever happened to blacks?

The Great Society. Every single issue that currently exists that holds them down can be traced to that piece of legislation, which single handedly ruined the country.

madAsHell said...

We are no longer have musicians with perfect pitch.

In fact, they shouldn't be called musicians. They don't play instruments. They mix, and play samples from other artist's recordings. They choreograph a dance, and commit it to video. They should be called audiovisual technicians.

Google "the amen break", and read the story behind one of the most sampled drum lines in cRap (the c is silent) music.


Bob Loblaw said...

>Whatever happened to blacks?

Every single issue that currently exists that holds them down can be traced to that piece of legislation, which single handedly ruined the country.


I agree with this, but it's not just black people; it's all poor people. We've set up a situation where the path of least resistance for poor women is to marry the state. Poor men, who would traditionally be busting their asses to climb the employment ladder and support their family, are in the short term better off not getting a job at all. The state will take most of what they make, and the children will be provided for anyway, so what's the point?

Of course in the long term everyone would be better off if that poor couple married and that guy worked his way into a higher paying job. But any policy which depends on large groups of people ignoring their short term interests for a better future is doomed to fail.

fivewheels said...

"they don't learn instruments anymore.

This requires practice, and discipline, qualities that are scarce among young people in American culture these days. My guess is that a large part of that is the result of family dysfunction -- that discipline was often enforced by parents, and two are more effective than one for that kind of thing.

Not surprisingly, in musical genres that require a great deal of musical ability honed by practice, such as classical or even heavy metal, you see a surge in non-American Asian influence these days. The best European power metal I've heard this century is from Japan.

Henry said...

If there is a vote: I don't hate rap. But the rap I like best is probably inauthentic rap. I don't care. That's a pretty danceable song by Drake.

He's Canadian. He's the Toronto Raptors biggest celebrity fan. He's like, the Jack Nicholson of the Raptors.

The video part of that video is really silly.

n.n said...

Denigrating individual dignity, color judgments (e.g. "diversity"), political congruence ("="), and debasing human life is an endorsement of human rights and civil rights violations, post-normal science, and transhumanism. Misogyny is a visible symptom of social progress heralded by bad and evil solutions, avoidance of reconciliation, lead by female chauvinists who denied women's franchise (and human lives deemed unworthy), and their male chauvinists counterparts for socially liberally associations. One step forward, two steps backward. Progressive (i.e. monotonic) liberalism (i.e. divergence) with the conventional secular motives.

n.n said...

Unfortunately, Pro-Choice (e.g. avoidance), has been a common religious/moral philosophy of minority populations in human societies, past, present, and for the foreseeable future, but exhibits an emergent disparate influence that manages to color societies from top to bottom.

mikee said...

"There are larger implications."
What, is there a nice mattress below deck on the boat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE

eddie willers said...

That's a pretty danceable song by Drake.

I gave it a good forty seconds. Nope...still crap.

And putting that socialist box office poison, Olivia Wilde, in the video didn't help.

madAsHell said...

We are no longer have musicians with perfect pitch.

We no longer have commenters with perfect English.

Birkel said...

Trump announces his support for federal marijuana legislation reform.

Making moves to garner (HA!) votes in the coveted black rapper demo? And the demo of youth voters too?

I look forward to Democrats attacking Trump on this. Over to you, Nancy Palsi....

chuck said...

"Art" becomes hypocritical when it became political. It also ceases to be "art".

JAORE said...

I lasted 1:21 into the video....

Do I get a participation ribbon?

I deserve that, at least, right?

SGT Ted said...

Feminism has a misandry problem that manifests in endless attempts at controlling men's behavior via appeals to a morality and social code that they themselves reject, so I'm not much interested in their latest complaints about men.