Althouse: "People have asked me for 40 years how not to get sued for sexual harassment. Well, a good first step is..."

March 18, 2018

"People have asked me for 40 years how not to get sued for sexual harassment. Well, a good first step is..."

"... making sure that sexual harassment doesn’t happen where you are. Especially now, because it’s going to come out. I’ve seen leaders of companies go in front of their employees and say: 'Listen, we’re here to work, not to cater to your social and sexual needs. If I hear you’re doing that, you’re out of here.' It’s pretty strong, but harassment doesn’t happen in those places. And then there are the other companies that have their so-called sexual harassment trainings, and they’re sitting there, going nudge-nudge, wink-wink, making funny comments about the trainers. That’s all H.R. wants us to do today.... Then at the next Christmas party, someone is sexually assaulted.... People can tell when you mean it. They really can."

Says Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in "Catharine MacKinnon and Gretchen Carlson Have a Few Things to Say" (NYT).

202 comments:

1 – 200 of 202 Newer› Newest»

Phil 314 said...: Why link to articles we can't see?; 3/18/18, 9:05 AM
Wince said...: Is it really how you say it or what you do when you receive a colorable report of misconduct?; 3/18/18, 9:08 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: So women aren't allowed to sleep their way up the corporate ladder?
For the first time in human history, men and women are expected to work together, side by side, and in unequal power arrangements, and yet -- and yet -- are forbidden sexual activity. And this is called "progress."Carlson is an attractive woman. Would she have gotten as far as she has if she had been ugly as a stump?
No.
Can't have it both ways, ladies.; 3/18/18, 9:11 AM
Paul said...: I like Vice President Pence's way... Don't work with women, or dine with them, unless there are others present to verify what was said or done. Just stay away from them.

Many of them today are just radicalized feminist. Stay away from them.; 3/18/18, 9:15 AM
Fernandinande said...: "Then at the next Christmas party, someone is sexually assaulted."

I never heard of that happening to anyone.

Maybe the authors work with some nasty people...oh, the NYT!

Did Carlos do it?; 3/18/18, 9:20 AM
Carol said...: Many of them today are just radicalized feminist.

More like born-again feminist, if things don't work out.; 3/18/18, 9:24 AM
Big Mike said...: The other half of the equation is terminating women who make false claims of harassment.; 3/18/18, 9:25 AM
Leland said...: For Mackinnon, avoid a lawsuit by paying your protection money upfront. If Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton knock on your door, they want an advance too.; 3/18/18, 9:26 AM
Michael K said...: So, is heterosexual sex not rape anymore ?; 3/18/18, 9:27 AM
Sebastian said...: "'Listen, we’re here to work, not to cater to your social and sexual needs."

In my experience, any workplace with women in it caters to their social needs. (Not saying predominantly male workplaces never do.)

Prog workplaces make catering to employees' social needs a priority: ask James Damore.; 3/18/18, 9:31 AM
buwaya said...: Anonymous modern society has lost community and extended family, and the most social environment most people have are schools and workplaces.

It is a bit absurd to expect that people can be told to stop being human at work or at schools.

Millions of years of evolution crashing into ideals of the last half-century, if that.; 3/18/18, 9:32 AM
Robert Cook said...: "I like Vice President Pence's way... Don't work with women, or dine with them, unless there are others present to verify what was said or done. Just stay away from them."

This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban. Why don't we also require women in our society to wear clothing that covers them up head to foot, and separate them from men at work and school?; 3/18/18, 9:32 AM
Fernandinande said...: And let's not forget the New-agey vocabulary:

"harassment" = anything unpleasant in any way that happened once, including an awkward come-on by the beta cuck when you wanted a smooth move by the alpha stud.

"assault" = touched by the cuck instead of the stud.

("Touched By The Cuck!" is coming soon to a theater near you, but you should download it illegally after the DVD comes out so you don't give money to those inappropriate Hollywood creatures).; 3/18/18, 9:33 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: "People of asked me for 40 years how not to get sued for sexual harassment."

People have asked me this too. My advice is to stay away from Leftwing women, even the good looking ones. They will give you trouble. Just grin and nod, and move on. Emotional neutrality. Certainly don't engage them in debate or hit on them. Find apolitical or conservative apolitical women, and you'll do just fine"; 3/18/18, 9:33 AM
Robert Cook said...: "The other half of the equation is terminating women who make false claims of harassment."

Sure...but how many do?; 3/18/18, 9:34 AM
Paco Wové said...: I just love how predictably knee-jerk you are, Cook. Like a marionette.; 3/18/18, 9:42 AM
Oso Negro said...: What makes Catherine MacKinnon an expert on managing an organization? Her entire working life has been spent inside the confines of academia. I wonder if she ever even had a real job, and I find no information to suggest she has managed in an American corporation. But she knows all about it! Yessiree!; 3/18/18, 9:42 AM
buwaya said...: Robert, you are correct of course.

Unfortunately there is this problem of tactics vs strategy.
The Pence approach is purely tactical - avoid exposure to attack.

Effective strategic approaches to counter this are not apparent. Requiring some sort of behavioral perfection without a Pence protocol is not a realistic strategy. Humans fail, or the rules will be exploited, these things are as predictable as the sunrise. Failures will be used, and hysteria will continue.

If you have a strategic alternative it would be interesting to hear.

Note that in most places outside the US this problem does not exist, or much less so. Not because workplaces are segregated, nor is it that human nature has been repealed. Its simply that such things carry much less risk than they do here, through hysterical overreaction. Or maybe the world hasnt quite caught up to American fashions. Its much more 1980s in Madrid and Paris than in NYC.; 3/18/18, 9:44 AM
gspencer said...: "how not to get sued for sexual harassment"

Just follow a variant of a good piece of advice I heard years ago, "If you want to stay outta barroom fights, then stay outta barrooms."; 3/18/18, 9:44 AM
Fernandinande said...: Phil 3:14 said...
Why link to articles we can't see?

I can see it but won't read it.

Did you know? You can block many of those subscription-checkers.

"ngram" indicates that "sexual harassment" was invented around 1972, a little over 40 years ago. Fortunately it peaked in 1993 and is waning.; 3/18/18, 9:48 AM
Fernandinande said...: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=sexual+harassment&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=0; 3/18/18, 9:49 AM
David said...: Interesting that when the interviewer raised the question of whether "the pendulum" had swung too far, they derided the question and declined to engage the issue. My sense is that they don't much care whether it has or not. Payback is ok. Or maybe it has to be that way for a while.

Carlson described some incidents of flat out sexual assault. I understand why she might have declined to report them at the time, but I wonder how she feels about those decisions right now.

Sex and power have always been linked, and always will be. Once the egregious conduct is damped down, how will this human constant manifest itself?; 3/18/18, 9:50 AM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Paco Wové said...
I just love how predictably knee-jerk you are, Cook. Like a marionette.

Free-floating anger is not an attractive quality.; 3/18/18, 9:50 AM
J. Farmer said...: Per dictionary.com: "harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks."

Of course, how can you know an advance is "unwanted," before you make it? The only feasible way to prevent this, it seems, is to ban making sexual advances. But what if two co-workers are mutually attracted to each and other and want sex or a romantic relationship? Is this forbidden? The complexities of human sexuality seem a blindspot for Ms. Mackinnon. That she believes a stern admonition from a paternalistic authority figure will solve this problem is puzzling.; 3/18/18, 9:53 AM
Phil 314 said...: Fernandistein said:
Did you know? You can block many of those subscription-checkers

Please tell me how.

Thx in advance.; 3/18/18, 9:54 AM
buwaya said...: And IIRC, there have been studies about where people met their spouses, and the workplace was always #1-#2 or so.

It is a very good place to evaluate the qualities of a mate. Better than anonymous dating or even social situations, where people are usually better armored in deception. You know who is reliable, who has prospects, who earns respect, how they are under stress, the best side and the worst side.

The only better is long acquaintance through family and community.; 3/18/18, 9:54 AM
David said...: "People of asked me for 40 years how not to get sued for sexual harassment."

Don't harass others, and don't cover for persons who do.

That should take care of a high percentage of it.

There are predatory claimants just as there are predatory harassers. They are more difficult to protect against but fortunately more rare also. Your own good conduct remains your best defense by far.; 3/18/18, 9:54 AM
Paco Wové said...: Asking Mackinnon about the sex relations in the workplace seems akin to asking Stalin about farm management.; 3/18/18, 9:56 AM
William said...: I did not and will not read the article. At a glance, it seems to wed the worst aspects of a Stalinist and Victorian ethos. Men and women have libidos, and, if they work together, complications will arise. Your job is not a dating service, but you go to work looking pleasant, presentable, and sober. When you put your best foot forward, you end up in the mating dance.........Gretchen Carlson actually did have her cake and eat it too. She won the Miss America crown and tens of millions of dollars in a sexual harassment suit. Pershaps she gained more money and fame as a result of sexual harassment than she did as a result of her career and all that hard work that a beauty contestant puts into proper grooming.; 3/18/18, 9:59 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: Blogger Phil 3:14 said...

Fernandistein said:
Did you know? You can block many of those subscription-checkers

Please tell me how.

Thx in advance.
View the link in an anonymous window.; 3/18/18, 10:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Cook: This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban. Why don't we also require women in our society to wear clothing that covers them up head to foot, and separate them from men at work and school?

That does seem to be the direction in which feminist thinking and sympathies is heading these days. Burkas are now empowering, doncha know. Not getting enough attention from slut-walking, I guess.; 3/18/18, 10:01 AM
Scott said...: I’ve seen leaders of companies go in front of their employees and say: 'Listen, we’re here to work, not to cater to your social and sexual needs. If I hear you’re doing that, you’re out of here.' It’s pretty strong, but harassment doesn’t happen in those places.

Wow, I never thought I would be on the same page as Catherine McKinnon! This is 180 degrees opposite the "bring all of yourself to work" philosophy of Google; a culture that only intensifies the tribalism and organizational politics within a company.

I hope my next job (presently looking) doesn't have an HR department with boundary issues. Quality of work life seems inversely proportional to the number of soft skills courses you have to take every year.; 3/18/18, 10:04 AM
buwaya said...: Harrassment is in the eye of the beholder.

Some people are smooth operators (both the wooer and the wooee), some are klutzes. As in the comment above, harrassment can simply be an unwelcome approach from a person who is unwelcome to aporoach - the "beta"; the same can be perceived as entirely acceptable coming from an "alpha", or one who is otherwise acceptable.

And the reaction to both an unwelcome approach, and rejection is just as important. And then there are ambiguous signals. It took me three years of (sporadic) effort to make the sale to my wife. The "maybe" is a complicated signal.; 3/18/18, 10:05 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Why link to articles we can't see?"

You can see it. You just choose not to.

This blog has been about linking to the NYT -- above all other things -- for 14+ years. This is what this blog is. If you like the blog enough, subscribe to the NYT so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm not going to change.

I link to mainstream liberal media. That's almost all I do!

If you want links to Fox News and Pajamas Media and The Daily Caller, you must have noticed, you won't get that here.

You're questioning the whole reason for being of this blog and asking me why. Indeed, why? Why do any of this?; 3/18/18, 10:05 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: "This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban."
No it is not, Robert Cook.
A man voluntarily avoiding association with women is not "This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban."
You do believe in freedom of association, don't you? Freedom of association is the first thing totalitarians go after.; 3/18/18, 10:06 AM
buwaya said...: Scott,

This is an understandable wish on the part of management, it removes an element of complexity from their jobs, but it is not realistic. In a mixed workplace under modern conditions it is in fact inhuman.

You can proclaim it but you wont get it. Unless you have a same-sex environment.; 3/18/18, 10:09 AM
Lewis Wetzel said...: I’ve seen leaders of companies go in front of their employees and say: 'Listen, we’re here to work, not to cater to your social and sexual needs. If I hear you’re doing that, you’re out of here.'
How will that work if employees who work together have a relationship entirely outside office hours -- and then have a bad breakup? And each complains to HR about the other 'harassing' them?; 3/18/18, 10:11 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Jesus Christ. The NYT has to provide safe social refuge for taking that nutjob McKinnon seriously?

Obviously the answer is that in a work setting a male aged 18 - 35 (and anyone older who'd be so inclined) has to learn to psychologically castrate himself. That's what it comes down to. Bitches be all about the benjamins and work is for money. Conservatives need to accept that it was the legal profession that did this to the H.R. departments. I guess MacKinnon can congratulate herself on keeping America's sexual puritanism that she knows and loves so well on life support for another generation or two by castrating our companies. Woo Hoo. And since money and work are everything in the life of this country, non-work social norms have taken H.R.'s lead and been impacted also. And the dating population wonders why basic socialization is so fraught. Sex is a part of life; not everything can be reduced in the way we love to do with our dollars and cents. But there's always Tinder - with endless intended "hook-ups" that we can take all the fun out of by reducing to a photograph! What a fucked up place.; 3/18/18, 10:14 AM
gilbar said...: how long before saying "'Listen, we’re here to work, not to cater to your social and sexual needs. If I hear you’re doing that, you’re out of here.'" will be considered a form of sexual harassment?

How DARE these terrible MEN tell us that we proper PC womyn can't use work as a forum for our social and sexual needs! These MEN are oppressing US!!!; 3/18/18, 10:20 AM
Scott said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 10:22 AM
Francisco D said...: Cookie said ... "This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban."

That is ridiculous, even for you Cookie. You need another cup of coffee to get your brain functioning.

Pence is being very cautious in protecting himself. He knows how the crazy Left operates.

I have a friend who is a very politically liberal rabbi. For the last 20 years he has refused to meet with a female alone because of a false accusation of inappropriate sexual behavior. There is nothing Taliban-like about him. He just wants to keep his job and stay out of court.; 3/18/18, 10:23 AM
Kevin said...: At this point I kind of agree. If I owned a company these days I'd be looking at recreating US military fraternization policies in my firm, just out of self defense.

Not like they're perfect, but what are you gonna do?; 3/18/18, 10:25 AM
Chuck said...: Ann Althouse said...
"Why link to articles we can't see?"

You can see it. You just choose not to.

This blog has been about linking to the NYT -- above all other things -- for 14+ years. This is what this blog is. If you like the blog enough, subscribe to the NYT so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm not going to change.

I link to mainstream liberal media. That's almost all I do!

If you want links to Fox News and Pajamas Media and The Daily Caller, you must have noticed, you won't get that here.

You're questioning the whole reason for being of this blog and asking me why. Indeed, why? Why do any of this?

My regular Althouse credo: She reads the Times so that I don't have to. I am far, far more serious than I am sarcastic in saying that. The number of genuinely interesting nytimes.com links I see on the Althouse blog outnumber the contentious "Trump apologist" and "faux-TDS" posts by about 5 to 1. (And I rarely comment on the ones that are just plain interesting, apart from law or politics.); 3/18/18, 10:25 AM
Scott said...: buwaya,

Your claim that having a policy that explicitly rejects catering to the social and sexual needs of its employees is "inhuman" needs a little support. Why? How? On the contrary, it can be the MOST humane way to manage employees.

The kind of management you idealize would be Google, which by all accounts is highly tribal and conformist; where you can be fired for expressions of incorrect thinking. I would be miserable there. (And in fact, I have turned away recruiter calls for positions at Google. To hell with them.)

Give me an employer who doesn't care who I voted for, what charities I do or don't support, or whether or not I'm gay. (Sadly, being gay DOES piss off some female managers!) That's not inhumane, that's awesome!; 3/18/18, 10:25 AM
buwaya said...: Looking at management from another POV, such an argument about "social" needs fails even in an all-male organization. People are not robots, regardless of how much a manager wants it to be. You can try set things up so that you can reliably expect x result from y button, but it ain't so even in the most process-defined system. Where what you require is problem-solving teamwork - well, forget it.

A manager is a leader, and he has to tend to things like morale and esprit de corps.; 3/18/18, 10:26 AM
glenn said...: In a 50 year working life I have personal knowledge of three incidents. One was blatant, the guy was hands on often. The day someone finally complained he was out the door. One was he said, she said. But the accused had said something (and was honest enough to admit it) that could have been taken two ways. One was completely bogus. And obviously so. The young lady did it to get a spiff on her severance settlement. My conclusion. Every case is an individual case. And first you need honest people.; 3/18/18, 10:28 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Bitches be all about the benjamins and work is for money - or for a lawsuit if you're unsatisfied with what you're earning through such petty things as payroll.

Thanks, lawyers!; 3/18/18, 10:31 AM
buwaya said...: Scott,

All kinds of employers care. Google really doesn't.

Consider a typical tech work unit where continuous problem solving requires a "flat" networked organization that is supposed to self-organize an ad-hoc solutions team. This is how such work really is done, whatever the org structure says.

That x doesn't get on well with y matters a lot. You have a poor link between nodes. It is a managers job to fix cases like that.; 3/18/18, 10:33 AM
rhhardin said...: My boss told me not to talk to women in the early 90s. Pioneers take the arrows.; 3/18/18, 10:38 AM
Paul said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 10:44 AM
buwaya said...: IBM (and most Japanese companies) had uniforms, company songs, and an intense sense of company loyalty. It worked well for them. Their failures were strategic.

HP had that network-node structure, perfectly aligned with scaled-innovation. A small-company entrepreneurship approach inside a big company that could provide resources. This used to be the Silicon Valley model.

Its been abandoned in SV, largely, for top-down systems with highly specified process subcontractors. Do this, as specified, and nothing else. This has killed creativity and innovation. These big outfits survive by being structural monopolies within their core business. They grabbed the scaling advantage there and are living off it.; 3/18/18, 10:46 AM
Paul said...: Robert Cook said...

"This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban. Why don't we also require women in our society to wear clothing that covers them up head to foot, and separate them from men at work and school?"

Huh? Not requiring women to do a damn thing. Just making sure one's ass is covered. Don't work or dine with them unless there are witnesses. The women can work with whomever they chose, dine with whomever they chose, dress as they like, go fucking naked if they like.

All I'm saying is cover your ass so they cannot accuse you of a DAMN THING.

Simple, no?; 3/18/18, 10:47 AM
buwaya said...: Paul,

That is a sound personal tactical approach, but it does not help morale and teamwork vis a vis the organization. It kills real communication, the best of which is informal.; 3/18/18, 10:51 AM
Scott said...: The argument you're making is sort of like the one that apologists for Socialism make when you point out that many leaders who espouse the philosophy and up starving their subjects, make them live in fear, or end up murdering many thousands: "They just didn't do it right."

So you like Google's philosophy. Just that they don't do it right.

Perhaps you should consider that it could do more with the concept of the "caring corporation" and less with the proficiency of management.

Corporations can't care. They are legal fictions with some rights of humans, but they are not human. They are for organizing and pooling resources to enjoy legal protections and economies of scale. To imbue them with "caring" is a management con game.; 3/18/18, 10:51 AM
Shouting Thomas said...: The West is as batshit crazy with barbaric feminism as the East is with radical Islam.

American feminist women are insane with greed and the lust for power, and they hate God and natural law.

It's difficult often to believe that women can be as evil as feminists. They work hard at it. They seem to glory in acquiescence to total evil.; 3/18/18, 10:52 AM
Fernandinande said...: The best kind of sexual harassment at work is when you drive into the foothills behind the plant at lunch and have sex in the back of your camper with Beverly and some people notice it and so you can harass them about "I got laid at lunch and you didn't".; 3/18/18, 10:53 AM
Fernandinande said...: True story!; 3/18/18, 10:53 AM
DKWalser said...: To a certain extent companies were caught in a an no win situation. Early in my career, all the major accounting firms had a strict 'no fraternization' policy. Dating anyone in the firm was strictly forbidden. The problem was, as more women entered the profession, women found this strict policy to be too restrictive. They wanted work to provide more than just a paycheck; work should also support their social needs, too. So, under pressure from female employees, the firms made their policies less restrictive: first you could date someone of the same 'level' as long as you didn't work on the same engagement, then you could date someone subordinate to you, as long as you did not supervise them, then you could date someone you supervised as long as you let HR know about the relationship. Under these new guidelines -- no one could call them rules -- things got messy fairly often. How could they not? Things got messy in high school when two people who had been dating still had to attend class together. The same dynamics apply at the office.

I always preferred the strict no fraternization policy. It made everything crystal clear. But, then, I was l already married when I started my career and I did not look to work for a social life.; 3/18/18, 10:53 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: People should take anything said by buwaya puti with a grain of salt. Most of what he says here are invented memories from some fictive imagining of himself as a captain of industry that he makes up just to convince himself of things he wants to believe. I suspect his agenda today is to give dating/management advice from the perspective of how many dozens of kids he's fathered over 7 decades with the same woman, or some such. What a sage. I would climb the highest mountain just to find a bearded, naked buwaya puti sitting cross-legged with his hands out in enlightenment pose telling me ommmmmmmm

Ommmmmmm.

Om mani buwaya padme hum.; 3/18/18, 10:54 AM
Ray - SoCal said...: Interesting comment Buwaya.

My guess is also SOX compliance and fear of lawsuits.; 3/18/18, 10:54 AM
Fernandinande said...: rhhardin said...
My boss told me not to talk to women in the early 90s.

Even the early 90s is pretty old.; 3/18/18, 10:54 AM
rhhardin said...: The early 90s was the era of the Women's Workplace Issues Committee.; 3/18/18, 10:58 AM
Hari said...: Why is making sure sexual harassment doesn't happen where you are only a good first step to not getting sued?; 3/18/18, 10:59 AM
rhhardin said...: If you see the Women's Workplace Issues Committee as amusing and typical of women, you can be their next target.; 3/18/18, 11:00 AM
buwaya said...: Scott,

Companies care! This stuff means money. Projects get done, or not, stuff gets sold, or not. If you are piling big bucks on something the state of your teams is your highest priority.

Google is NOT doing it right. Read above. They dont succeed at innovation, at new products, they are where ideas go to die.; 3/18/18, 11:00 AM
alan markus said...: At a conference on rental housing management the topic of interactions between maintenance staff and tenants came up. The housing director of a large urban housing authority said his maintenance staff had a slogan: "Don't gets your honey where you gets your money".; 3/18/18, 11:00 AM
rhhardin said...: It's committee meta-harassment.; 3/18/18, 11:01 AM
Paul Zrimsek said...: And IIRC, there have been studies about where people met their spouses, and the workplace was always #1-#2 or so.

It's 2018. Women can always safely date random guys they meet on the Internet.; 3/18/18, 11:01 AM
bagoh20 said...: It seems that the weaker sex is only getting weaker in our time. The expression "weaker sex" used to be mostly a reference to a physical fact, but today it's an accepted fact covering all aspects of womanhood requiring all kinds of law and policy to counteract. It's to the point where it should be covered under the ADA since it's handled like a disability.; 3/18/18, 11:02 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: American feminist women are insane with greed and the lust for power, and they hate God and natural law.

As crazy as ST is, there is definitely something to this observation.

I think I realized it when a (successful, intelligent, libertarian) female I argued with disputed my contention that respect is earned.

She then went on about how women have rights and can't be treated as chattel, blah blah blah. As if I couldn't tell the difference between respecting a person's rights and actually having any respect for them as a person. Shit, even Charlie Manson and Ted Bundy had RIGHTS! (Not many, but still).

Basically it comes down to an evolutionary quirk whereby they haven't adapted to 500 years of enlightenment. Men had to work out systems of "honor" whereby in any financial transaction you had to gauge his trustworthiness. This led to an emphasis on character, and other things that women don't understand.

For women, OTOH, commerce was basically limited to finding the richest/most powerful/stable guy to make a baby with. Once you attracted him to you, that was it. No need for anything involving character.

SO now we live in a capitalistic, liberal society. Fast forward 500 years. Everyone has rights, but they don't realize that feeling respected isn't one of them. And if your society is all about money, this only puts the female urge to sell their youthful attractiveness - their only real natural material asset - on overdrive.

But socially we told them they need to go to work, also. So naturally they will be tempted to use that setting (and the courts that discipline it) as a way of sucking out as much money as they can. Alimony, H.R., "feeling" sexually "demeaned..." It's all of a piece that involves using the sexuality premium of the gender that couldn't invent electricity, democracy or indoor plumbing into something of personal, material value. Because it certainly doesn't offer shit in the way of any social value.

And this is where they're at. It's an evolutionary mind-suck that modern liberal capitalism can't reform them of.; 3/18/18, 11:03 AM
rhhardin said...: They have reserved parking for women, with wider spaces.; 3/18/18, 11:03 AM
Shouting Thomas said...: Marxist feminism arrived to the U.S. as a Soviet disinformation campaign, intended to sow chaos by disrupting family, tradition and religion.

It has succeeded by seducing women just as Eve was seduced in the Garden.

And Marxist feminism has succeeded in pitting men and women against one another so magnificently that we cannot even reproduce ourselves and we are committing suicide.

I doubt that there is a single person in the Professor's law school who will stand up and say: "Decent people don't talk Marxism. Marxism is evil."

In fact, I doubt that a traditional Christian white man can win employment as a professor at U WI law school. That's how effective this campaign of Marxist psychological warfare has been.; 3/18/18, 11:03 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: I was lucky enough to get married right out of college. Thus, I never had any motivation to mix work and social life.

Maybe part of the problem now-a-days is that people are getting married later ( and getting divorced more often. ) Resulting in many more working-aged people looking for a romantic partner. Perhaps more of them should take up blogging...; 3/18/18, 11:03 AM
Scott said...: DKWalser,

Interesting post. Do you think that women didn't like the 'no fraternization' policy because it denied them the use of a familiar tool for getting ahead or defending turf in office politics? What specifically didn't they like?; 3/18/18, 11:04 AM
cubanbob said...: At 78 cents on the buck employers can spare themselves a lot of the problem by hiring only woman. For the physically demanding, hazardous and exposure to the elements work leave that to men. Problem largely resolved.; 3/18/18, 11:04 AM
chickelit said...: Althouse shilled “If you like the blog enough, subscribe to the NYT so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm not going to change.”

Ugh. Demerit points for you. Some of us sincerely want to see the NYT right itself or go out of business.; 3/18/18, 11:05 AM
dreams said...: I find it ironic that after we became a "sluts are us" nation that we get all these sexual harassment claims.; 3/18/18, 11:06 AM
Scott said...: Lolcats.

"Companies care! This stuff means money."

In other words, if it didn't mean money, they wouldn't care.

So basically we agree it's a con game. They don't really care. The can't care. They're corporations.; 3/18/18, 11:07 AM
Gospace said...: It doesn't matter how much training there is and whether or not a company and it's management takes training seriously or not. False accusations of sexual harassment can still take place for a myriad of reasons. I know- I've survived 3 accusations to date. One filed by a male who said I was sexually harassing females, but they couldn't find any females who'd back his accusations up.

The biggest problem with sexual harassment laws is there is no absolute definition. It's a crime defined by the accuser, and what is sexual harassment when committed by Pimply Joe is wanted attention by Muscle Man Jim. That's not how law is supposed to work. An action is either a crime- or it isn't. Shouldn't depend on perceptions of the victim.

As for Robert Cook's question, a lot of women make false claims. And are rarely if ever punished or terminated for it. It's like making false accusations or rape. There's been several high profile cases where false accusation have been made. Mattress Girl, Duke Lacrosse- and the women at the center of the cases never suffer and in some cases are lionized for their bravery.; 3/18/18, 11:08 AM
Amadeus 48 said...: I declared the NYT wouldn’t get a dime from me back in the W Bush administration. So far, so good. Thanks for reading it so I don’t have to.
The NYT—don’t read it and be uninformed; read it and be misinformed.; 3/18/18, 11:10 AM
buwaya said...: Socialism has nothing to do with it.

Teams happen, people working together is it. It helps to have Mr. Brilliant in there somewhere, but way too often the real problem is you get stuck trying to deliver on what Mr. Brilliant gives you. You can't make a product or service out of it.

I recommend, always, Peters&Watermans "In Search of Excellence"; 3/18/18, 11:10 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Marxist feminism arrived to the U.S. as a Soviet disinformation campaign, intended to sow chaos by disrupting family, tradition and religion.

Lol. It's not a Soviet thing, dude. Capitalism was and is just as disruptive of those things.*

Go read my 11:03 post. It explains this all. It's a western thing that's on hyperdrive in individualistic societies as materialistic and lacking in solidarity as the U.S.

*If not moreso. I'm still not convinced that slavic chicks don't make better partners. Maybe not for the long haul, but in the interim they sure would like to settle down. This also had to do with the sexual assertiveness they developed following a WWII that depleted Russia of tons of men and left them with a lopsided gender ratio. There's nothing like a few less men to every woman to put her and her "sisters" on the prowl and stop beating around the bush with just wanting to be admired from afar like most women are content with feeling.; 3/18/18, 11:11 AM
chickelit said...: “Some of us sincerely want to see the NYT right itself or go out of business.”

I say that as a former subscriber, btw. But the NYT - like the current DNC - actively repels former subscribers.; 3/18/18, 11:13 AM
buwaya said...: People run corporations.
To the guys who make decisions, its money. They are people.

Its their wealth and ambition at stake, unless they are insulated from the consequences, which is a much more common situation these days. Say at Google.; 3/18/18, 11:14 AM
robother said...: Isn't Catherine McKinnon a feminist who has taken the view since the 70s that all heterosexual congress is rape? Wouldn't any words or actions animated by that goal therefore constitute sexual harassment?; 3/18/18, 11:14 AM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “I link to mainstream liberal media. That's almost all I do!

If you want links to Fox News and Pajamas Media and The Daily Caller, you must have noticed, you won't get that here.

You're questioning the whole reason for being of this blog and asking me why. Indeed, why? Why do any of this?”

And for that I do thank you. It’s a pity that the majority of your readership takes it as just another chance to dismiss and diminish it. They make little or no effort to understand the point of view of the writer.; 3/18/18, 11:21 AM
chickelit said...: @TTR: Your 11:03 was quite good, actually. Bravo.; 3/18/18, 11:21 AM
Etienne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 11:22 AM
Michael said...: Women were not "assaulted" at corporate Christmas parties, they got drunk and hooked up with the people they had been attracted to for some time. This mutual passion, fueled by lots of booze, is now called "assault" or, for the more dramatic employee "rape." It is bullshit. New definitions don't change the fact that people are sexually attracted to each other and with the permission granted by alcohol they act on it. They fuck in cars, in private offices, wherever they can. They fuck like rabbits discovering fucking. Because they are human. And all the bullshi prog "conversation" about it will not change a thing.; 3/18/18, 11:22 AM
Rick said...: 'Listen, we’re here to work, not to cater to your social and sexual needs. If I hear you’re doing that, you’re out of here.'

Is that what she advocated be said to Monica Lewinsky? I don't remember that.; 3/18/18, 11:22 AM
DKWalser said...: This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban. Why don't we also require women in our society to wear clothing that covers them up head to foot, and separate them from men at work and school?

@Robert Cook -- Women don't have to make false accusation's of sexual harassment for Pence's approach to be wise. I've written about my experience in this regard on some prior Althouse thread, so here is a brief summary: One of my subordinates came into my office to discuss her future with the firm. It was an intense, emotional conversation. She had been thinking of leaving. I tried to persuade her to stay. The conversation lasted about 45 minutes, much of which she spent crying. When she left my office, her makeup and hair were a mess. Within minutes of her leaving my office, the women who worked outside my office started gossipping about the sexual activities that had smudged her makeup and tussled her hair.

In my case, my subordinate didn't make a false accusation -- other women did it for her. Fortunately, she was one of the first to hear the rumors and she went to all the women on our floor and explained to each of them the true nature of our conversation. Had she not done so, my reputation may have been severely and unfairly damaged. Had she not been a women of integrity, she may have allowed the false rumors to flourish and used them to her advantage.

Since that time, I've always insisted that my office door remain open (or that there is a glass window so others can see in) whenever I meet with a women. Experience taught me to adopt the Pence rule long before I'd ever heard of the man.; 3/18/18, 11:24 AM
Temujin said...: My Sunday rant:

Reading your blog for years, I note that you have a deep respect, admiration for Ms. MacKinnon. I've not read any of her books, nor would I ever be inclined to. It just doesn't interest me. I know her only through quotes I've read that have been attributed to her, and some interviews with her. (such as the one you link to). I find her to be a fairly standard Marxist collectivist and a horrid person. She has a 'noble' cause and Goddamnit, she's going to run over any and everybody she can to teach it, preach it, and make sure it sticks. And I say this not to downplay sexual harassment. It's to say I cannot hear the message if I find the messenger repulsive and full of her/his own malice.

One of many quotes attributed to her: “Power is being able to say complete and utter nonsense and have it be believed, powerlessness is where no matter how much cogent evidence and proof one has, to not be believed.”

And of course, the classic: "All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." I remember hearing this years ago in Detroit and wondering how a person like this could be a professor at UoM. Today it would be unusual to find someone who didn't think like that at any university.

About 25 or so years ago we decided our boys in school got too much attention, and were apparently driving the teachers crazy with their natural 'male' behavior, even as kids. So we decided to start (a) ignoring the boys, (b) make the topics more interesting to the girls, and to make sure to call on the girls more, and (c) dope the boys. Ritalin for all of them.

A few years of progression and on through high school and into the colleges, it's pretty much an all-out attack on being male. Fewer men than ever are entering universities. Fewer still are employed well enough to make a wage 'attractive' to a woman (that's another topic for another time: Why would a woman need to be attracted to my income if they are so independent?). "Toxic Masculinity" is what the pod people scream as they point you out now. I wonder what the comparable would be on the other side? Either way, the quest to neuter men in this country (and Western Civ) is not going to end well. And at some point it will be noticed that real men are not only hard to find, but missed.

Go Spartans.; 3/18/18, 11:25 AM
rhhardin said...: Assault and salary have the same root.; 3/18/18, 11:25 AM
Ken B said...: Hangings show sincerity.; 3/18/18, 11:25 AM
rhhardin said...: Hang on, it's leap and salt.; 3/18/18, 11:26 AM
bagoh20 said...: Just put up a sign "Penises must be kept on leash at all times".

There was a time and place where working with women required castration. Worth consideration.; 3/18/18, 11:26 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Thank you, chickelit.

Joe Rogan recently had Brett Weinberg and Heather Heying on his podcast. They go more into (some of) the science of this stuff but that's a necessary precursor (and a difficult one in the universities) before moving on to understanding the fall-out of all this shit socially, which is where this post and so much other pop culture discontent is at.

I almost mistyped pop culture as pup culture just now. Lol. How true.; 3/18/18, 11:28 AM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: What a gray, ugly, Stalinist world Catharine MacKinnon and her disciples are creating.; 3/18/18, 11:28 AM
Gahrie said...: This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban.

If so...it is not the fault of men or the Right.....

Why don't we also require women in our society to wear clothing that covers them up head to foot,

We did at one time. Now I would settle for shoulder to thigh.

and separate them from men at work and school?

I know you meant this sarcastically, but as a teacher I definitely believe that the sexes should be educated separately after sixth grade.; 3/18/18, 11:29 AM
wwww said...: "Is that what she advocated be said to Monica Lewinsky? I don't remember that."

What did she say? I've never read her, and raise my eyebrow at certain quotes.

That said, I've never heard her to be inconsistent. She's got her strong position, it's got an edge, and a lot of people disagree.

In this quote, for this post, she's got a point.

If a corporate leader lets it be known that dating and socializing is something you do On Your Own Time, or you are Out of a Job -- Employees are going to listen and respond.; 3/18/18, 11:31 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: MacKinnon is full of shit, Temujin. As was her crazy partner in crime, Andrea Dworkin. Althouse just likes her probably because they either went to the same law school, or because of how unduly influential she became in the law field or because (as I strongly suspect) she shares a fondness for the same puritanism and prudery that MacKinnon loves so much. And why not? America was founded by Puritans. And then our immigration waves of the last century oversaw millions of sexually schizophrenic Catholics rushing into our East coast and midwestern population centers to take their place. And just as the WASP Anglo aristocrats residing there were starting to achieve and promote enlightenment, too. Bummer.; 3/18/18, 11:32 AM
Scott said...: "People run corporations. To the guys who make decisions, its money. They are people."

I hate corporations, or governments, or institutions generally, that are shrines to the ambitions of specific people. If you're an employee, or subject, or follower, your world comes flying apart when they fail.

This is why cults of personality are dangerous. Better is the leader who keeps the team focused on the common purpose. You are whatever you are, but together, we make the world's best widgets!

There is a great BBC documentary on Amazon Prime about the development of the Trent turbofan endine by Rolls Royce in Derby, England. The management doesn't seem very touchy-feeley, but you can tell that employees are very proud of what they do. That's all you need.; 3/18/18, 11:33 AM
buwaya said...: Ritmo,

Many, many have sat at my feet.
I am above all a teacher. I instruct in classes, I instruct in groups, I instruct in person. Its my thing.
You do not, however, need to climb any mountains.

None of this is esoteric. Catholicism, like Engineering, is, after all, an open book, or an open library, written clearly in the light of reason.

My wisdom is free, as is all real wisdom. The only obstacle is your own reluctance. You can lead a horse to water, etc.; 3/18/18, 11:35 AM
Chuck said...: Temujin said...
My Sunday rant:

Reading your blog for years, I note that you have a deep respect, admiration for Ms. MacKinnon...
...
...
Go Spartans.

So as a Michigan grad myself (like Atlhouse) and as another years-long reader of the Atlhouse blog, I have never observed anything from Althouse that would regard as "deep respect, admiration for Ms. MacKinnon..."

Do you have some example in mind? I'm curious, because I honestly think that your appraisal of MacKinnon is pretty good. I'm no fan of MacKinnon; you obviously aren't, and I don't get the impression that Althouse is either. In my reading, what Althouse quoted was a remarkably sensible and agreeable bit of moderation and practicality from the often-intemperate MacKinnon.

Oh, and one more pro tip for you, sport: when you are engaged in any heated disagreement over the politics surrounding sexual assault, don't mention any connection you might have to Michigan State University. Maybe in 20 or 30 years, and an entire new generation has forgotten Dr. Larry Nassar, you might be able to cite "the Spartans." If, that is, the insurance declaratory actions are wrapped up by then. I kind of doubt it.; 3/18/18, 11:36 AM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”

While this is a ridiculous notion, I think that in this article MacKinnon has expressed some valuable insights.; 3/18/18, 11:37 AM
Chuck said...: I don't know what my dyslexia is, in constantly typing "Atlhouse." My sincere apologies. I have just now (finally!) put "Althouse" into my spell-check.; 3/18/18, 11:39 AM
buwaya said...: Scott,

Re Rolls Royce - do you know what those managers there do and say, day to day? Pride like that does not come from nothing. Walk in your managers shoes, imagine his world.

Money is the point of the commercial firm. Lots of them have tried to do cool things but failed. The more interesting failures are, or were, the fertilizer for better ones.; 3/18/18, 11:41 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: My wisdom is free...

I think the word you're looking for is "cheap."

But other than that, thank you. I'm sure you're a nice person, but you greatly overvalue whatever advice you feel you have to offer. You actually remind me of a number of these modern day single women. If you ever want to put one of them on the spot, call them out as boring. That will really get under her skin. Because she will know deep down that it is true. Once you scratch beneath the surface, there's nothing there. MGTOW groups are just as pissy but I do think there's something to be said for the notion of demanding of a single woman that she have something more to offer if she wants a satisfying relationship than a few happy-go-lucky photographs depicting how well she looks in a bikini while frolicking about on Easter Island or wherever she's vacationed - exotic or not. Or the other pic of her volunteering at a soup kitchen, just in case you doubted her pretend social mindedness.

So, stop being so shallow, is basically what I'm telling you. Like the ladies, you too view your primary worth as being locked up in being a human conveyer belt reproduction machine. Not much social worth in that now, is there?; 3/18/18, 11:43 AM
wwww said...: "Maybe part of the problem now-a-days is that people are getting married later ( and getting divorced more often. ) Resulting in many more working-aged people looking for a romantic partner. Perhaps more of them should take up blogging..."

When people find life-time partners at school or outside institutions, there is no problem, unless someone commits adultery at work. But some people do not find a spouse at school, and are not members of a church, or a club, or a hobbyist group that allows them to meet a future partner.

The real problem comes when people date and then break-up and have to continue to work together. Divorces can cause work issues. Messy break-ups are bad for the work environment. Major problems can result when people treat their workplace like a bar, or as a place to find casual sex.

American life has fewer institutions that exist outside of work. Church, clubs, civic organizations -- they had a social and community purpose in bringing together men and women and inter-generational groups of people.; 3/18/18, 11:45 AM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Bitches be all about the benjamins and work is for money - or for a lawsuit if you're unsatisfied with what you're earning through such petty things as payroll.

Thanks, lawyers!

At the individual level this sums it up. The minions do bidding of the masters without seeing the bigger picture.

At the macro level it is the left trying to tear apart a free society. A free society requires individuals to be able to handle their own selves and their interactions with others. The women who complain to HR and depersonalize the issue are just working for people that want to centralize power.

HR departments are a jobs program for leftist diversity shrews. Off the top of my head I would guess HR departments nationally are 80% female just from my experience.; 3/18/18, 11:46 AM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”

While this is a ridiculous notion, I think that in this article MacKinnon has expressed some valuable insights.

Yeah, well that notion is ridiculous and even "offensive" enough to conclude that the sanity of whoever said it makes anything else they say not worth listening to.

Her insights are only "valuable" in a material and monetary sense - as recognized by the workplace grievance warriors and the bosses/owners who would love nothing more than the "efficiency" of a sexless workplace. This is what owners do. Why do you think slaveowners prohibited marriage and broke up any potential families among their African slaves? This is the same thing on a smaller scale. The feminists love it though because they know that any woman worth taking seriously in a work setting already won't be trifled with anyway - but since when do the vast majority have anything serious to offer?; 3/18/18, 11:49 AM
becauseIdbefired said...: Let's not forget schools. Better not approach a woman there. Heck, it's dangerous even if you don't. You might run into Lena Dunham, or join a frat.

"School and work are the next-most common meeting locations (15-20%)." (Behind "other").

The advice is to take the number 1 place people meet and have long term relationships, and make it verbotten. Great advice for Western nations, including the US, that no longer procreate at replacement levels.

We *will* figure out how to get rid of these evil, white, Westerners.

On the other hand, given those big horns on the Buck, which are used to establish procreation rights, stupid men will still try, and suffer at the hands of the New Victorians.; 3/18/18, 11:53 AM
Achilles said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...

“All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”

Inga said: "While this is a ridiculous notion, I think that in this article MacKinnon has expressed some valuable insights."

Yeah, well that notion is ridiculous and even "offensive" enough to conclude that the sanity of whoever said it makes anything else they say not worth listening to.

Her insights are only "valuable" in a material and monetary sense - as recognized by the workplace grievance warriors and the bosses/owners who would love nothing more than the "efficiency" of a sexless workplace. This is what owners do. Why do you think slaveowners prohibited marriage and broke up any potential families among their African slaves? This is the same thing on a smaller scale. The feminists love it though because they know that any woman worth taking seriously in a work setting already won't be trifled with anyway - but since when do the vast majority have anything serious to offer?

People like MacKinnon are smart enough to know what they are doing. Everything she does is aimed at tearing down a free society.

The people that listen to her are not smart enough to know what they are doing. Inga has always been an idiot.; 3/18/18, 11:54 AM
Rick said...: What did she say?

As far as I know she never said anything critical about Lewinsky. She said Clinton shouldn't be prosecuted, but she treated Lewinsky as a nonentity. But recognize how she framed her current position: sex in the workplace itself is a problem regardless of circumstances. This framing would cover Lewinsky even though feminists defended her on the basis that she's an adult and therefore consensual sex is no one's business but theirs and those with personal relationships. If MacKinnon believed this she would have agreed Lewinsky's actions were inappropriate also.

So we can see she's pushing standards she doesn't actually believe in. There's really no rational motivation for this other than trying to ensure she has a basis to criticize those she perceives as the enemy even if they don't fail a reasonable standard.; 3/18/18, 11:54 AM
Michael K said...: " They make little or no effort to understand the point of view of the writer."

Unfortunately for the left, most of us do understand the writers. All too well.; 3/18/18, 11:55 AM
buwaya said...: Ritmo, we are all "reproduction machines", thats what nature made us to be. It is hardly "boring", it is fascinating. Your first child will teach you things beyond anything you can imagine.

That is, on that level, the point of being what we are. There is no other, seeing as we are not here for our own sake. As individuals we amount to a hill of beans.

If you want to imagine a reason to be other than that, you need to go to another level and acquire a transcendental purpose. Which is a painful thing. You have to sacrifice. Having children perhaps, and less important items like comfort and amusement go as a matter of course.

I was scouted for the Christian Brothers, but I could not make that sacrifice. Thats what it takes.; 3/18/18, 11:56 AM
walter said...: PG It seemed to me, not long after the Weinstein story broke, the pendulum almost swung the other way: “Are we taking this too far?”

GC That’s such a cop-out.

CM Not to mention boring and predictable.; 3/18/18, 11:57 AM
wholelottasplainin said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 11:59 AM
DKWalser said...: Do you think that women didn't like the 'no fraternization' policy because it denied them the use of a familiar tool for getting ahead or defending turf in office politics? What specifically didn't they like?

I DON'T think they opposed the policy because it denied them the 'familiar tool' for getting ahead. Instead, and please forgive the generalization, but I believe most women are more holistic than men in their outlook. Men tend to compartmentalize their lives into neat segments that need not overlap. So, work may, but need not, have anything to do with their social or family life. A man might have a hobby and feel no need to introduce his fellow hobbyists into his work or family circles. That's not generally true with women. Their life is their life and all of it is interrelated. So, fencing work off from social feels artificial and stifling.

An example of this difference comes from my early married life. While I was still in school, we were living in married student housing. I, along with a few of the other husbands in our apartment complex, had formed a basketball team as part of the school's intramural league. Meanwhile, one of the couples in the complex was having marital problems. The husband, 'Fred', was verbally abusive and, for some reason we need not go into here, I was asked to work with the couple to address this issue. Fred was a member of our basketball team. Early one Saturday morning, I was getting ready to go play basketball and my wife asks if Fred was going to play and I told he was. She was incredulous that I could play basketball with Fred. For my part, I couldn't think why I wouldn't play with Fred -- he was 6'4", had a decent jump shot, was a good rebounder, passed the ball. My wife, seeing Fred as a whole, couldn't see associating with someone who wasn't a good husband.; 3/18/18, 12:00 PM
wholelottasplainin said...: robother said...
Isn't Catherine McKinnon a feminist who has taken the view since the 70s that all heterosexual congress is rape? Wouldn't any words or actions animated by that goal therefore constitute sexual harassment?

**********************

I distinctly remember MacKinnon doing an opinion piece in Ms. Althouse's beloved NYT some years ago, in which she argued that in sexual assault cases, the first thing that should be asked is, "Is the defendant part of a class [ i.e. men] known to commit sexual assault"?

That, from a law prof, was supposed to be an oblique way of saying, "believe the woman". Never mind that it was highly prejudicial right out of the gate.

As an aside, I always wanted to be a gecko on the wall in the MacKinnon household to observe how she treated her then-boy toy Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson, author of books on Freud's seduction theory.

I'm thinking he would worry about sex between the two as being "praying mantis" style.

3/18/18, 11:59 AM Delete; 3/18/18, 12:01 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: "And then our immigration waves of the last century oversaw millions of sexually schizophrenic Catholics rushing into our East coast and midwestern population centers to take their place."

What you are describing is specifically 19th century Irish Catholicism. I forget which Irish writer came up with the theory that that the horrors of the Famine somehow linked sex and death together in the Irish mind. I'm not sure I buy that, but it is true that the Irish, who arrived first, shaped the church hierarchy here and controlled its' institutions for a long time. Thomas Sowell noted that the Italians and Slavs and German Catholics who immigrated later on felt resentment over the fact that the Irish, with their talent for politics, dominated the American Church. Even in my childhood, we seemed to have a quite a few Irish nuns with (to us) funny Boston accents who had come out to teach in Midwestern schools and those nuns tended to be the stereotypically tough ones. Mediterranean and Slavic Catholicism are quite different. I've always thought American Catholic art and music would be better if the Italians and Germans had come over first.; 3/18/18, 12:02 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 12:02 PM
Rick said...: Michael said...
Women were not "assaulted" at corporate Christmas parties, they got drunk and hooked up with the people they had been attracted to for some time.

There's no doubt some women have been assaulted at Christmas parties. Denying reality puts you in the same group with the radfems. It's a mistake to universally characterize any population as any reasonable process has to distinguish between violations and errors based on the facts and circumstances of each case.; 3/18/18, 12:03 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”
———————————
“Yeah, well that notion is ridiculous and even "offensive" enough to conclude that the sanity of whoever said it makes anything else they say not worth listening to.”
———————————

Ritmo,
Yes, I agree it’s offensive. People say offensive things. In this instance what she has to say isn’t offensive and I don’t think it can rightly be portrayed as offensive if you are able to put aside what else she’s had to say. I understand that might be asking too much, but there are times that people who have a history of being wrong can actually be right. I take her comments in this article as one of these instances.; 3/18/18, 12:04 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Ritmo, we are all "reproduction machines", thats what nature made us to be.

We are also "thinking machines" and "building machines" and "abstract creation" machines but if your focus is instead on your genitals and whatever comes out of them - fully infant human in form or not - then you're really not much better than 1) the rapists/harassers and 2) the women fixated by them and/or by feminism as a replacement for humanism.; 3/18/18, 12:05 PM
buwaya said...: wwww,

"Work" is not why we exist.
It is a means to an end, not an end.

Even if you are religious and sworn to celibacy, and your motto is "ora et labora" (In the Benedictine rule), "ora" is the point.; 3/18/18, 12:05 PM
walter said...: PG Gretchen, I was surprised by your taking the reins of the Miss America pageant. It’s hard to square women competing for scholarships in bathing suits and high heels with the other work you’re doing.

GC Well, I wouldn’t be putting my name or my empowerment movement in association with it unless I was actually going to bring empowerment. The challenge isn’t brand identity. We’re struggling with messaging. You know what the average G.P.A. of the 51 contestants is? 3.65. Why aren’t we celebrating that in a scholarship program? That’s just a sense of what I’m going to be doing.
--
Nice dodge; 3/18/18, 12:07 PM
buwaya said...: Ritmo,

My cat is a "mouse catching machine". And the mouse he is after is a "scavenging machine". But job 1 is breeding.

We are very good at rationalizing things, and overrating our skills. In truth nearly all of us can easily be replaced in "work" functions. There are other thinkers and creators. There are even other leaders. There is always someone else.; 3/18/18, 12:10 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 12:12 PM
Rabel said...: I clicked the link and I'm really surprised to see that Ms. Lanchester is still alive.; 3/18/18, 12:12 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: In this instance what she has to say isn’t offensive and I don’t think it can rightly be portrayed as offensive if you are able to put aside what else she’s had to say.

All she said is how to have a sex-free workplace. As someone who's both worked and occasionally gone (at times) without sex (or flirting, or whatever) I agree that it is "safer" and more efficient to keep those things out of the workplace. But that is not the issue. The issue is whether sexlessness and work should be the primary values for an America made impossibly inoffensive.

If you think that sexlessness and inoffensiveness and work should be the only motivations in American life then MacKinnon is definitely your champion. But some of us think this is bullshit and part of what leads to an America so incapable of fulfilling the basic social contract needed by our country and our working class that they desperately voted for a sexual harasser and possible assaulter to represent them in the nation's highest office instead.

The country already does enough for the pursuit of money and the supposed superiority of wholesomeness so maybe a presidential candidate who puts people's lives above the priorities of the MacKinnons and whomever's on board with her trivialities is someone that the Hillary voters (and the rest of this sorry nation) just aren't good enough to deserve.; 3/18/18, 12:14 PM
rhhardin said...: An article by a woman says science shows guys find smart women less desireable as a romantic partner.

It seems to be based on a psych 201 experiment.

I'd say it depends on which of the four feminine types the woman is.

(Thurber, _Is Sex Necessary_, "A Discussion of Feminine Types."); 3/18/18, 12:14 PM
Rick said...: Isn't Catherine McKinnon a feminist who has taken the view since the 70s that all heterosexual congress is rape?

This was Andrea Dworkin's position, but I don't think MacKinnon's. They did work closely together but not where this exact element was the issue, they both opposed pornography as an expression of patriarchy and a form of harassment.; 3/18/18, 12:17 PM
HipsterVacuum said...: "As someone who's both worked and occasionally gone (at times) without sex..."

What a shocking revelation.; 3/18/18, 12:18 PM
Paul Zrimsek said...: MacKinnon would make a good boss for a Dickens novel if only she had a funnier name.; 3/18/18, 12:20 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Yeah, I know. Impossible to imagine, "HipsterVacuum." There was also some humor in there. Thanks so much for your invaluable contributions. I don't know how our Facebook culture would function without them. You are a true gem among commenters.; 3/18/18, 12:21 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “As someone who's both worked and occasionally gone (at times) without sex..."

Going without occasionally isn’t a negative. It only enhances the experience when the spigot gets turned back on. I’d suggest this to all men...and women.; 3/18/18, 12:30 PM
buwaya said...: I dont know enough about the Irish Catholic attitude to sex to comment. But the Southern European one is complex.

The culture is extremely open, as far as male-female communication goes, as a matter of tradition. Once at puberty they have license to flirt, to show open attraction. In spite of the mantillas and the fans and the chaperones, they all made a point to check each other out in the daily paseo, and serenading by the girls window really was a thing. Thats burned in, the cultural references are ubiquitous.

On the other hand, girls had to be virgins. Hard rule.; 3/18/18, 12:30 PM
FIDO said...: I have to ask this: would you go to a Nazi and ask them for their unbiased views on Jews?

Or, would you, going to a survivor of Auschwitz, believe you are getting unbiased views of the German people?

Let me go further. Would you expect totally unbiased testimony about cats from someone who is violently allergic to cats...or even someone who does not like cats?

Would you go to a couch potato and ask them about the merits of exercise? Someone who never ever saw the benefits of hard work but only the pain and suffering?

So why in the 9 Circles of Hell would anyone go to a Feminist for relationship advice? They either don't like guys period, been horribly hurt by guys, or never took the effort to actually START a heterosexual relationship...or were the last girl being picked for the dance.

Yeah...that is unbiased advice. Quality advice.

So hearing MacKinnon bleat about corporations or sexual attraction seems surreal that anyone actually listens to her.; 3/18/18, 12:36 PM
derek said...: So there are two solutions. No parties or employee get togethers.

Best of all, no employees. Like a local business who were facing the burdens of this nonsense, they fired most of them and moved production to Mexico. Where I suppose this silliness is not an issue.

No workers no inappropriate behavior.; 3/18/18, 12:37 PM
traditionalguy said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 12:39 PM
traditionalguy said...: Forbidding chemestry between men and women in the workplace is actually anti-human. But then the legalists enjoy that part the most.; 3/18/18, 12:40 PM
LA_Bob said...: All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.

According to snopes, MacKinnon never said that.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rape-seeded/; 3/18/18, 12:40 PM
buwaya said...: To complicate things, you had groups exempt from "virgin" oversight. There are other traditions. In Spain it was acceptable to have a "companera", companion, or partner, which is a complex concept. Part mistress, part common-law wife, part betrothed, part comrade-in-arms, say for a man in military service.

My ancestress was a "companera", who accompanied her man on his conquests. A sinful state, which they resolved, as usual, through marriage when he was on his deathbed. And both were, mostly, raffish but "respectable".

Also, often, by implication, "lover". It was even common to refer to ones wife as such, a blush-inducing endearment.; 3/18/18, 12:40 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Going without occasionally isn’t a negative.

Can I remind everybody once again that I added this in as a point of humor?

My main point in the comment stands.

Also, if it turns out that I have higher standards than "HipsterVacuum" I wouldn't be surprised.; 3/18/18, 12:49 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: The Toothless Revolutionary said...
MacKinnon is full of shit, Temujin. As was her crazy partner in crime, Andrea Dworkin. Althouse just likes her probably because they either went to the same law school, or because of how unduly influential she became in the law field or because (as I strongly suspect) she shares a fondness for the same puritanism and prudery that MacKinnon loves so much. And why not? America was founded by Puritans.

Never forget (she won't let you) that Ann Althouse boasts descent from Cotton Mather, burner of witches. Now of course she can't be burning women, so she seeks warlocks, I guess.

And then our immigration waves of the last century oversaw millions of sexually schizophrenic Catholics rushing into our East coast and midwestern population centers to take their place. And just as the WASP Anglo aristocrats residing there were starting to achieve and promote enlightenment, too. Bummer.

3/18/18, 11:32 AM

I don't want to be accused of not keeping up again, but: wait, what? However now I see you have been well and truly jumped on this, and I hate to pile on.

Buwaya: On the other hand, girls had to be virgins. Hard rule.

Sodomy?; 3/18/18, 12:49 PM
Kevin said...: 'Listen, we’re here to work, not to cater to your social and sexual needs. If I hear you’re doing that, you’re out of here.'

I have recently been led to believe from the CEOs of Apple, Starbucks, Salesforce, Google, and other companies of note, that work is all about making sure every employee caters to the social and sexual needs of everyone else in the name of diversity.

Those who question those needs are generally out of a job.; 3/18/18, 12:49 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Good to know, thanks for that Bob. For years we’ve been hearing that comment attributed to MacKinnon, that’s too bad.

“All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.

According to snopes, MacKinnon never said that.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rape-seeded/“

“Misattributed
All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.
The allegation that Catharine MacKinnon equated sex with rape, or suggested that all sex is hostile, seems to have been first made in the October 1986 issue of Playboy. Catharine MacKinnon has denied ever saying anything of the kind. [1]
Instead MacKinnon asserts that rape and intercourse are "difficult to distinguish" (1983), and that "the major distinction between intercourse (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it" (1989).”

Wikiquote; 3/18/18, 12:49 PM
Rick said...: From the snopes link:

Dworkin has also disavowed the quote as a false statement circulated by her opponents. She has denied saying that “all sex is rape” or “all men are rapists.”

Her denial is a lie though, and Snopes repeating the denial without a more detailed analysis of the issue is the left's method of defending radicalism. Dworkin stated that the patriarchy is so strong women are incapable of forming sexual consent with men. Since this is the definition of rape she did say all heterosexual sex is rape. Her denial that she didn't use those precise words is meaningless.; 3/18/18, 12:49 PM
LA_Bob said...: To The Toothless Revolutionary:

I rather like Buwaya's posts. They generally carry the weight of reason and reflection, rarely if ever slipping into sarcasm, disdain, or "point-scoring".

As chickelit, noted earlier, your 11:03 post was first rate. I have seen this sort of thing from you from time to time. Many of your other posts, sad to say, seem to merit a less lofty ordinal.; 3/18/18, 12:50 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: I dont know enough about the Irish Catholic attitude to sex to comment.

Talk about sheltered. Ever hear of something called "St. Patrick's Day?" I'll send you out to scout about for one of those. Your education will increase immensely.; 3/18/18, 12:50 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: As chickelit, noted earlier, your 11:03 post was first rate. I have seen this sort of thing from you from time to time. Many of your other posts, sad to say, seem to merit a less lofty ordinal.

Hey! You've got to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.

View my posts in that light. I don't mind mucking about in the mundane for as long as it takes to find the stairway to elevate me out of it. Especially when surrounded by nothing but muck. I'm told that even Newton had to sit in a lot of ordinary orchards until the apple plopped onto his head.; 3/18/18, 12:53 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 12:57 PM
HipsterVacuum said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 12:57 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: I don't want to be accused of not keeping up again, but: wait, what?

While the turn of the last century saw plenty of neo-Puritans out in full-force - see John Harvey Kellogg - who invented Corn Flakes and other grain cereals because he thought the boredom of mastication was the only salvation for discouraging the evil of masturbation - there were also plenty of hedonism-promoters. Specific names escape me, at the moment. I suppose I could look them up, though - but I'm too bored to. Too much of a hedonist myself I guess you could say and I still have some visual and gustatory pleasures of which to partake on this sunny day. Apologies.; 3/18/18, 12:57 PM
HipsterVacuum said...: Can I remind everybody once again that I added this in as a point of humor?

What's humorous is you think anyone is convinced that you ever convinced a breathing, conscious human to have consensual sex with you.; 3/18/18, 12:59 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: None needed, Tooth. It's a beautiful day out, too. Gustamos!; 3/18/18, 12:59 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: What's humorous is you think anyone is convinced that you ever convinced a breathing, conscious human to have consensual srx with you.

This comment is yet another prime example (of many) of the residual conservative menace. Unless they're out monitoring your genitals, then there is no end to how much sex they will accuse another private citizen of either having or not having - depending on the individual and whichever scenario caters to their fantasies of control and domination (or submission, in the case of pumping up and lauding the Trump) better.; 3/18/18, 1:00 PM
Howard said...: This post just shows how people are struggling with social changes that far out-pace evolutionary adaptation. It's predictable how hysterical both sides get blaming "the other" while claiming the moral high ground.

It's not just women in the workplace, it's the mixing of races, mass communication, social media, the rule of gossip, the low price of electricity, Oxycontin, corn syrup, Whiskey and gasoline, the high price of housing and education, cheap, rapid and safe inter-Continental travel, mass computation, spell checkers, popular statistical models, yada, yada, yada

Sit back, relax and enjoy the flight; 3/18/18, 1:02 PM
Big Mike said...: Instead MacKinnon asserts that rape and intercourse are "difficult to distinguish" (1983), and that "the major distinction between intercourse (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it" (1989).”

Not much difference between writing “the normal” (meaning consensual sex) “happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it” and “all sex is rape.” So whether my wife initiates sex or I initiate sex there’s wants someone — anyone! — to see something wrong with it? In McKinnon’s world, apparently so.; 3/18/18, 1:04 PM
buwaya said...: On St Patricks day people go to bars and drink a lot, sometimes absurd things like green beer.
I was drunk under the table once on St Patricks day by my nominally Irish-Australian principals when working for an Australian VC. There are loads of Irish bars in San Francisco.
Few of which have actual Irish people in them.
I don't think a truly Irish culture with the traditional sexual mores exists, anymore, in the US.; 3/18/18, 1:04 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Too much of a hedonist myself I guess you could say and I still have some visual and gustatory pleasures of which to partake on this sunny day. Apologies.”

No apologies needed. Enjoy the pleasures of good food and drink, you’ll never go wrong... unless one overindulges. 😉; 3/18/18, 1:04 PM
Jim at said...: This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban. - Cookie

Good gawd, what a stupid comment.

Nobody is being repressed by NOT dining with Pence alone.

How idiotic.; 3/18/18, 1:05 PM
HipsterVacuum said...: This comment is yet another prime example (of many) of the residual conservative menace.

Nah, just an example of the fun one can have by poking an idiotic pretentious twit like you. But yeah, you've had sex, sure. That's believable. How could anyone resist your charms?; 3/18/18, 1:08 PM
buwaya said...: "Sodomy?"

Unheard of. Not done, outside of homosexuality.
Or at least certainly not discussed, even by prostitutes.; 3/18/18, 1:08 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: You know, HipsterVacuum, just because I don't want to have sex with you, doesn't mean you have to act all bitchy. There are more mature ways of handling rejection.; 3/18/18, 1:09 PM
Jim at said...: The early 90s was the era of the Women's Workplace Issues Committee.

Yep. And we can all thank Anita Hill - and her lies - for that.; 3/18/18, 1:10 PM
buwaya said...: Changes that outpace evolutionary adaptation are survival risks. That is a big deal. There is no bigger deal, as far as existence goes.; 3/18/18, 1:11 PM
HipsterVacuum said...: This is just a step or two away from the sort of fear-induced repressive practices of the Taliban. - Cookie

Yeah, mere steps. I'm sure Afghans who've lived under the Taliban appreciate your ability to relate so closely to their fear. Dopey pseudo-dissident asshole.; 3/18/18, 1:12 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: buwaya, I recently read some of Guy de Maupassant's short stories. He's an author I had somehow neglected in my youth, except for a few of his most famous stories. I find his insights into 19th century French mores quite interesting. In one of them, the proprietor of a provincial brothel shuts down the whorehouse for a few days and takes the girls with her to attend the First Communion of her niece. Her peasant brother feels absolutely no shame that his sister runs a brothel - it's a "respectable" place, not much different from running a cafe or an inn. Nor do the whores feel at all hypocritical when they devoutly kneel and pray and weep sentimental tears when the boys and girls receive Communion. Middle and upper-class French girls were expected to be virgins when they married, but, since it's the French we're talking about, extra-martial affairs were commonplace, even expected. Rich and powerful men in all countries have always had mistresses, but the casual French assumption that of course ordinary bourgeois husbands and wives will have lovers on the side is still jarring to a 21st century American.; 3/18/18, 1:13 PM
Darrell said...: Catharine MacKinnon has denied ever saying anything of the kind.

Proving she's a liar. The author of the Playboy article witnessed her saying just that at a symposium she spoke at--more than one, actually. He couldn't get a printed copy of the symposium proceedings because she never bothered to give a written copy to the organizers (in some cases, the proceedings were never published for lack of discipline [their excuse? volunteers.]) But others have come forward saying that they heard her and some tape recordings existed. Until they were "accidentally" erased when the owners' careers were threatened. MacKinnon's words came back to haunt her when she applied to head a university, rather than the Women's Studies program. You can be a bigger nutter, like Inga, in the latter.; 3/18/18, 1:14 PM
buwaya said...: As with Big Mike,

Mckinnons actual statements are just (deliberately) complicated ways to say the same thing. There is no nuance implied, to justify the complication.

This is a common trick in feminist writing. Its a way to paper over absurdities.

Get "Sex Trouble", McCain, for many more examples. Just $1.99 on Amazon Kindle.; 3/18/18, 1:19 PM
Howard said...: Blogger buwaya said... Changes that outpace evolutionary adaptation are survival risks. That is a big deal. There is no bigger deal, as far as existence goes.

Wrong again Mr. Theoretical Pontificate. The bigger deal, as far as existence goes, is risk aversion. The motto of Western expansionism fueled by military and economic dominance is "Fortune Favors the Bold". The traditional Catholicism you seem to hew to is used by the bold to keep the natives scared, meek and pacified.; 3/18/18, 1:22 PM
buwaya said...: Exiled,

Yes, it was not very different in Spain. Besides everything else, Spain has always been a copycat of French fashions.

And its not at all strange for sinners to be devout, for whores to attend Mass (but not take communion).; 3/18/18, 1:25 PM
buwaya said...: Howard,

What you have in the modern world, especially in the most modern parts of the modern world, is a disastrous collapse of fertility. Unprecedented in human history. And we are barely at the beginning of this. Something is going very badly wrong.; 3/18/18, 1:28 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: I don't think a truly Irish culture with the traditional sexual mores exists, anymore, in the US.

3/18/18, 1:04 PM

Not really. However, I have known a lot of women of Irish descent who would have become, or considered becoming, nuns 60 years ago. They have traded theology for "progressive" politics and feminism. When they start yammering about politics or male privilege, I half expect them to pull out a ruler and rap someone over the knuckles with it.

Elizabeth Warren calls herself a Cherokee, but every time I hear her hold forth in that scoldy schoolmarm voice, I think of Sr. Mary Priscilla shaking her finger at me because my skirt was too short.; 3/18/18, 1:29 PM
Howard said...: buwaya: population bomb, population bust, the end of the world is always nigh.; 3/18/18, 1:35 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: The birth rate in France is higher than the birth rate in Spain, who’dathunkit?; 3/18/18, 1:45 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Inga said...

The birth rate in France is higher than the birth rate in Spain, who’dathunkit?

3/18/18, 1:45 PM

Mostly Muslims, idiot.; 3/18/18, 1:51 PM
buwaya said...: Population bomb mostly fixed itself. It was known it would, even when the hysteria started. Thats because the collapse in fertility had already been observed in the developed countries. When Ehrlich wrote "Population Bomb" western Europe was already at replacement fertility or rapidly approaching it.

But there is no fix in sight for the birth dearth, and worse the age structure of these populations predicts a very rapid, escalating collapse.; 3/18/18, 1:53 PM
Paul said...: buwaya said...

"That is a sound personal tactical approach, but it does not help morale and teamwork vis a vis the organization. It kills real communication, the best of which is informal."

Well given the choice, 'teamwork and morale for the organization' or ones personal ruin, bankruptcy, divorce, depression, humiliation, etc...

I guess I prefer the 'personal tactical approach'!; 3/18/18, 1:56 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “Mostly Muslims, idiot.”

So, are Muslims not human beings? You just gave away what a bigot you are.; 3/18/18, 1:56 PM
Jupiter said...: buwaya said...
"Changes that outpace evolutionary adaptation are survival risks. That is a big deal. There is no bigger deal, as far as existence goes."

And I will repeat; Back when other people decided when and with whom women would have sex and reproduce, it did not matter much to Evolution what women wanted, because they seldom got it. Now women can get the things they want, and they are doing so. And Evolution is paying close attention to the choices they make.; 3/18/18, 2:01 PM
wwww said...: buwaya,

You said:

"Work" is not why we exist.
It is a means to an end, not an end.

I say:

Sure thing. However, if you insist on screwing or heavy-petting someone in the office -- on your desk, on top of the fax machine, behind the conference room door, or in the lunch room -- your boss has every right to fire you.

Some employers will make this clear at the outset. Those companies will experiences fewer sexual harassment lawsuits.; 3/18/18, 2:03 PM
Jupiter said...: Inga said...

"So, are Muslims not human beings? You just gave away what a bigot you are."

Igna, Hells Angels are human too. How many of them would you like for neighbors?; 3/18/18, 2:04 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: I keep waiting for Inga to say something that isn't boringly predictable and stupidly PC.

It'll never happen.; 3/18/18, 2:13 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: “I keep waiting for Inga to say something that isn't boringly predictable and stupidly PC.”

I keep waiting for you to say something not predictably bigoted. Alas, it’ll never happen.

It bores me to have to keep pointing out how Trumpists are despicable creatures.; 3/18/18, 2:21 PM
Michael said...: The birthrate of the upper middle class and the one percent is above replacement So,all good.; 3/18/18, 2:58 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: You must think your fellow liberals are semi-retarded, since you seem to believe that you have some sort of duty to keep pointing out our supposed deficiencies. Apparently leftists are slack-jawed dullards who have to be told what to think about the commenters here because without your constant Daffy Duck imitation they'd be completely clueless.

Huh. You're probably right about that.

I'm very pleased to be considered despicable by you.; 3/18/18, 3:02 PM
Michael K said...: “Mostly Muslims, idiot.”

So, are Muslims not human beings? You just gave away what a bigot you are.

I try to avoid making fun of Inga but she really needs to spend some time with Muslims.

How about Malmo Sweden. A Saturday night on the twon would be good.

"You have to look over your shoulder when you go out at night now. I don't let my little brother go out at night any more," said one high school student at Monday’s protest in front of city hall. "I hope that the politicians actually view this as a serious problem and start to solve this in Malmö."

After being handed a list of measures to curb the violence in the city, Justice and Migration Minister Morgan Johansson stated in a matter-of-fact tone: "We have to get rid of the weapons, we need tighter punishment so that those who are held for serious gun crime can be arrested immediately and not just be released a few days later."

What Johansson failed to mention, however, was the fact that the bulk of the violence stems from one community.

The Muslim immigrant community has a crime problem. <

Go for it, Inga !; 3/18/18, 3:49 PM
ccscientist said...: Let's look at incentives. If HR will "believe the woman", then there will be false accusations. If management always backs up their managers (which I have seen many times), then managers will believe that they can get away with stuff.; 3/18/18, 4:18 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 4:41 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: If we ever are successful in draining every bit of sexuality from the workplace it is women who will lose by it. Massively. As nature intended, it’s half their toolbox.; 3/18/18, 4:58 PM
Birkel said...: Kitty MacKinnon thinks Aristotelian logic should be replaced. She thinks the logic that built civilizations must be replaced.

And she totally believes in evolution.

Make sense of that.; 3/18/18, 5:20 PM
Howard said...: Relativity and Quantum mechanics replaced Aristotelian logic before Kitty was born.; 3/18/18, 5:48 PM
Howard said...: Inga: The Trumpthusians are only despicable if they have any control over their emotions or a semblance of self awareness. They are proud of their ignorance and stupidity and lash out at a strange world that has passed them by.; 3/18/18, 5:57 PM
Birkel said...: Howard:
You think Kitty MacKinnon wanted to replace Aristotelian thinking in science? In physics? Come on. You're better than that. She has never betrayed any understanding of science, at all.

She wanted to attack logical reasoning, qua logical reasoning. You see the results all around you. She was a terribly good advocate for self-destruction.

Terribly.; 3/18/18, 6:16 PM
Jack Klompus said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/18/18, 6:26 PM
Jack Klompus said...: "They are proud of their ignorance and stupidity and lash out at a strange world that has passed them by."

The world populated by the pedantic, holier than thou comments section snob who fancies himself some type of moral and intellectual superior? Self-important cartoonish twerp.; 3/18/18, 6:30 PM
chickelit said...: Howard does have resting sneer face.; 3/18/18, 8:09 PM