March 3, 2018

"Despite what many are saying, it is possible to see the political logic beneath the Trumpian chaos that unfolded in the last few days."

"Even while many pundits have labeled this the 'craziest week' in the Trump presidency — maybe in all of American history, if you listen to some experts — most of the moves that President Trump has made fit into a rather consistent strategy that he has pursued since 2016. Indeed, this is the thing about Trump. The more that you watch what he does over time, rather than focusing on the heat of the moment, the more that you can see how he is trying to position himself for the 2020 election.... Despite the fact that there has never been a period of 'normalcy' since January 2017, other than a few days here and there of quiet, everyone keeps expressing surprise at discovering the turbulent state that the administration is in. It's time to abandon the talk of 'unprecedented,' the speculation about the turning point and pivot, and the shock every time more of the same happens. Instead, it would be better to step back and take a long-term view of the possible political method behind the madness."

Writes CNN political analyst Julian Zelizer (who is a Princeton history and public affairs professor). He's saying something that seems terribly obvious to me and perhaps to you, but I'm interested in the beginning of what I hope is a realization within mainstream media that all their melodrama about Trump hasn't worked and is incredibly tiresome to normal people who might still retain shreds of the old the habit of reading serious news.

195 comments:

MayBee said...

Bill Maher, believe it or not, gets it right: https://twitter.com/billmaher/status/969832172323393538
(watch the video)

Hagar said...

And I am getting very tired of "... according to some persons familiar with ..."

mockturtle said...

Craziness? Chaos? Did I miss something?

MayBee said...

Despite the fact that there has never been a period of 'normalcy' since January 2017, other than a few days here and there of quiet, everyone keeps expressing surprise at discovering the turbulent state that the administration is in.

There has been a state of normalcy, out here in real world land. Our lives are not uprooted by the imagined White House Dramas and tweets that the press focuses on.

Sebastian said...

"He's saying something that seems terribly obvious to me and perhaps to you" Those Princeton eggheads should just read this blog and comments.

"I'm interested in the beginning of what I hope is a realization within mainstream media that all their melodrama about Trump hasn't worked" Keep hope alive.

"and is incredibly tiresome to normal people who might still retain shreds of the old the habit of reading serious news." Yes, all half dozen normal midwestern retirees. Other than that, they'll go with crazy 24/7 for the next few years, counting on normal suburban women to turn their revulsion at mean Donald into votes.

I wish we lived in an Althousian world, but we don't.

rhhardin said...

He's not positioning himself for 2020. It's a rhetorical trick with present value. Don't look past me, negotiate with the guy who's going to be here a long time.

Not that he might not run, but that that's not the point of it.

Yancey Ward said...

Trump is standing astride the center of the political divide- this annoys many people, including the Chucks and the ARMs of the world. The politician it reminds me of the most is Bill Clinton.

The gun control items from this past week were the most enlightening, in my opinion. By just moving a little distance to the left of NRA, Trump probably gained politically- and it was a perfectly meaningless as far as policy changes go- a freebie for Trump.

rhhardin said...

Trump's third term is what the left ought to panic about.

Big Mike said...

... all their melodrama about Trump hasn't worked and is incredibly tiresome to normal people who might still retain shreds of the old the habit of reading serious news.

If you find something that approximates "serious news," please let the rest of us know.

rhhardin said...

Trump at the political middle is less likely than Trump "pacing" the opposition to get something else.

Agree in order to develop a habit of agreeing in your opposition. Agree in one then agree in all.

rhhardin said...

Radio Japan has serious news.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/rj/podcast/rss/english.xml

Check it once a day. Updated 8pm Japan time.

Japanese obsessions rather than US obsessions.

Hagar said...

How do you prove that the writer does not know any such persons, or that if he did, they would not talk to him?

And should there not be a journalistic principle that you do not speculate on what may happen next week based on loose gossip overheard at Starbucks, but wait to report on it when or if it actually does happen? Is not that what the words "reporter" and "reportage" imply?

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...


“He's not positioning himself for 2020. It's a rhetorical trick with present value. Don't look past me, negotiate with the guy who's going to be here a long time.”

Excellent observation. And the Hysteria Narrative actually reinforces it. If we’re going to survive under the long reign of the Mad King, well, we’re probably going to have to give a little.

rehajm said...

CNN starts to lose their captive audience at the airport so CNN decides maybe they should consider a pivot?

Nah, I bet not..

James K said...

More projection. It’s the left and Democrats that are in chaos. They are flailing about for a way to respond to Trump.

BW3 said...

Perhaps "Wodehousian" covers it best.

Hagar said...

and AA, I think Trump is having a marvelous time with all this, and he is not trying to position himself for a run in 2020; he is.

exhelodrvr1 said...

That's been clear since the campaign. If the estab Repubs would actually provide a little help, they could have accomplished amazing things by this point.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

Julian is simply the exception that proves the rule. If it, in retrospect, turns out to have been a turning point - the point of which is publication of this "think piece" - and one can trace a greater appreciation of the "big picture" back to Julian's modest, even, one might say freaking obvious observation herein, then perhaps it will prove me wrong and the exception noted above will actually be the first of many sane articles to come. Not likely.

[untangling this prose should take no more than 77 seconds]

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Melodrama is a great word to describe the tone of coverage about Trump. The media seems to be having a Victorian style, hysterical, fainting couch worthy, pearl clutching melt down around every small thing that they imagine Trump is thinking or doing.

Melodrama. What a bunch of drama queens.

Derek Kite said...

5 dimensional chess is as it does. As with this article, people should get out a bit more.

I haven't seen any complex and difficult task involving huge numbers of people every look elegant, smooth or even with any assurance that in the end it gets done.

The net result of what happened this week is an emboldened Democrat base forcing it's representatives to campaign on gun control.

I am predicting that the Republicans keep the house and improve their margins in the Senate.

Dr Weevil said...

I don't recall where I read it - probably either here or at @ThomasWictor - but Trump uses Twitter like a laser pointer, and the Democrats, the Press (but I repeat myself), the Never-Trumpers, and even a lot of Trumpers fall for it every damned time. Meanwhile, he's getting things done. Wictor thinks the unusual number of distractions this week points to big things about to happen in Iran (ongoing overthrow of the mullahs shifts into high gear) or Lebanon (defanging of Hezbollah) or most likely both. Or it could be the hammer finally coming down on corruption in the FBI and half a dozen other government agencies. We shall see - or at least some of us will: the rest will continue chasing the fascinating red dot.

buwaya said...

The news is always serious, there is a purpose behind every choice of style, message and emphasis. Its not random bs, or some cumulative result of personal and organizational defects of the participants in the industry. There is a tremendous amount of money in this, and the organization it brings, and consequently also very tight discipline. It might not work as well as the organizers intend, but its not for want of trying.

Its just that these purposes are not aligned with what at least some of the public wants in their "news". The public wants broad information about the world, but the MSM is organized and tasked as a propaganda ministry.

tcrosse said...

Presumably under Hillary everything would be calm, orderly, and quiet. Very very quiet.

etbass said...

Well, having passed his age a few years ago myself, I can tell you the real enemy of Trump is years. It was Reagan's enemy and when Trump reaches the time for a second term, it will be catching up with him. Third term? Not a chance.

etbass said...

Much more would have been made by the media about the age issue in the last election had Hillary not herself been in the same crosshairs.

mockturtle said...

Presumably under Hillary everything would be calm, orderly, and quiet. Very very quiet.

Except for that annoying cackle.

Narayanan said...

@Buwaya says ... MSM puppeteers be wagging their dog and it's not Trump that is the dog.
... Guess who?

Michael K said...

Even Politico is angry that the Coward County Sheriff has detracted from the narrative with his incompetence.

It’s hard to recall a post-disaster interview worse than Scott Israel’s train wreck this week with CNN’s Jake Tapper, when the Broward County sheriff hailed his own “amazing leadership” after the Valentine’s Day massacre in Parkland, Fla.; insisted he could “only take responsibility for what I knew about”; and when asked if his department could have prevented the tragedy, bizarrely responded: “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, O.J. Simpson would still be in the record books.”

...He has become a shiny ball used by Republicans to distract the public and change a politically awkward subject—in this case, the debate over gun restrictions after the tragedy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High. A Fox News headline neatly summarized: “Sheriff Scott Israel Battling Calls to Resign As Blame Shifts in Wake of Florida School Shooting.”


Oh the horror! The Sheriff missed 40 opportunities to stop the shooter.

The NRA is getting away from the lynch mob.

BUMBLE BEE said...

A friend told me (long ago) that he'd only listen to BBC on shortwave, because they told you what happened, not what to think about it. As I said, long ago, far away.

Larry J said...

"Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...
Melodrama is a great word to describe the tone of coverage about Trump. The media seems to be having a Victorian style, hysterical, fainting couch worthy, pearl clutching melt down around every small thing that they imagine Trump is thinking or doing.".

The Press has been operating in septic tank mode for the past two years. Every day, they pull up to a septic tank with a fire engine. They put the input hose into the septic tank and spray the contents at Trump hoping something will stick. In the end, nothing does yet they persist. Studies show that 95% of their coverage on Trump is negative but that doesn't do anything but inflame the Leftist rubes and never Trumpers. Perhaps if they'd approached their Trump coverage with some balance, their negative coverage would have some impact. But when it's 95% negative, people just tune them out as the partisan hacks they are.

Wince said...

"Better to have news about some kind of fight among advisors than about political corruption."

And who decides what that "news" is? Given the actual revelations about political corruption, doesn't that describe the motives of the MSM and the Democrats better than Trump?

Hagar said...

It is difficult for the egos in the media to accept that most people don't pay much attention to them, and of those that do, half think their disapproval proves Trump is on the right track.

Chuck said...

Althouse takes [fill in the blank -- the NYT, CNN, whatever] literally.

But she doesn't take Trump literally. At least not in any accountable sense. Not the way that she criticizes and picks apart the media stories that are critical of Trump. (Which she's now made a career of. She picks her shots, when it comes to the media and Trump. She doesn't touch most of the stories that perfectly accurately and irrefutably point out Trump tweets and pubic statements that are inexplicably false or contrary to his formal, earlier positions.)

Just imagine what the Althouse commentariat would have said, if Barack Obama or Eric Holder had said, "I like taking away the guns first. We can do due process second." (Whatever you are thinking, I'd probably have responded to such a statement from any Democrat similarly to any of you.)

For Althouse, it seems, Trump should be judged on the basis of entertainment, and "persuasion," and meta-messaging. But Trump's critics are held to a standard of literal accuracy.

I might view Trump differently, if I thought that he was a nice guy, a decent guy, a guy with a conscience or personal morals. He's none of those things.

If Trump is as rich as he claims, he's an amazing cheapskate who's done almost nothing for charity in any substantial way, for someone of his claimed wealth. But I actually think Trump has an excuse. The excuse is that he is nowhere near as rich as he has ever claimed.

Chuck said...

tcrosse said...
Presumably under Hillary everything would be calm, orderly, and quiet. Very very quiet.

No it wouldn't. Just like it wasn't when Bill Clinton was president.

Darrell said...

When I was watching The Today Show on Wednesday, they gave one of the Deputies in Florida a medal for capturing the school shooter. Didn't the kid set his rifle down and come out with his hands up? That's some act of heroism! I would quit before I showed up for a medal like that. Any real man would. Fake medals. Fake news.

wwww said...

"Presumably under Hillary everything would be calm, orderly, and quiet. Very very quiet.
No it wouldn't. Just like it wasn't when Bill Clinton was president."


yep. The Clintons and Trump -- they're all drama queens. Drama queens in different ways, but drama queens nonetheless.

There's a system to Trump's chaos. He's threatening a trade war. It's about Pennsylvania's special election. It's about distracting from Hope Hicks and the rest of the news this week.

Maybe he'll institute tariffs, but odds are he'll be onto something else next week. However, his words do have an effect on the response of the rest of the world to the USA. Europe (and others) are working up a response to these tariffs if they are instituted. Taxes on dairy & Kentucky liquor. of course aimed at Ryan and McConnell.

If these tariffs don't go through, the USA looks like a country that talks tough but won't follow through. I do not think Trump cares about that. He's focused on domestic politics.

Jim at said...

maybe in all of American history, if you listen to some experts

Yeah. No week - in the history of this nation - matched it.

These people - the so-called experts, and those who believe them - are fucked in the head. There is simply no other excuse.

Michael said...

Every word is written for the Ingas of the #resistance. The media is the school paper for #resisters.

buwaya said...

Chuck,
Why does every utterance of the President matter?
Or matter so much to you?
It did not matter in the past.
A deep dive into history does not indicate such intense attention to every little thing.
There is an evil purpose here, quite as much as there was in bringing down Nixon over things that were glossed over in previous administrations. The result was the near-breakdown of the Pax Americana in the 1970s.

The machinations of the system are obviously malicious.
And that system is much more powerful and far reaching than any one man, and its evil closer to the satanic root than any one mans issues.

The failure of perspective is no failure, it is deliberate, it is an engineered system of falsehoods of the most clever sort, and it is a work of the devil.

Hagar said...

Or Canada and others may quietly lift some of their subsidies on steel exports so their prices go up a little, and domestic U.S. steel becomes just a little more competitive.
And so on.

The United States has a lot of iron and coal, and there really was no excuse for our steel industry to become so lethargic - the guys just got too set in their ways from the habits of long-time world dominance. Trump may want to set off some firecrackers under them too.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

It's not a terrible idea to run a counterfactual analysis of Trump's presidency in which it is assumed that Trump's actions are a product of a broader coherent plan rather than a chaotic and emotional response to immediate events. And, it certainly is the case that Trump is focused on getting reelected, so there is the hint of an overarching strategy. But, it remains the case that this has been a chaotic presidency and it has not advanced the country's best interests. There is no sense of leadership in this presidency or even, as many have noted, ownership of the presidency.

William said...

The criticism of Trump would be more effective if it were more selective. I've seen Bond villains who were given more humanizing features than Trump. The criticism is so relentless and spittle flecked that people tune it out. You would think that professional communicators would know how to filet the fish with more adept moves.........To some extent they've succeeded in damaging Trump's reputation but they've done rather more damage to their own reputations.

Darrell said...

Trump chaos.
Translation?
The Leftists aren't back in power yet.

buwaya said...

This presidency cannot be "owned", because the purpose of the President is fundamentally opposite to that of the organization of which he is nominally in charge. It is a very basic clash of world views and especially identities. They are also therefore irreconcilable.

And ones attitude towards him depends entirely on which side one comes down on, socially, culturally, tribally.

Personally, I have a range of middle grounds on most of your policy issues, but I can see that none of this is about narrowly-defined issues. All of those are distractions. It is about power in its rawest form, and, indeed, survival.

Hagar said...

There is no sense of leadership in this presidency or even, as many have noted, ownership of the presidency.

Echoing buwaya, I would say to the contrary, Trump very much owns this presidency and is leading the opposition to all that ARM and Chuck favor.

buwaya said...

It comes down to whose mind survives - that of the original "American" sort, or the entirely incompatible "modern cosmopolitan". The "American" mind is threatened with extinction. This might seem a theoretical thing, but it isn't.

The extermination is, will be, entirely the same in scope and thoroughness as that of the ancient Buddhist culture of what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan, by the Muslim invaders. Just as a symbolic matter, you have many thousands of Bamiyan Buddhas, and they will all come down.

It will be as if the entire existence of dozens of generations was futile, null.

I am separate, I and mine can escape through one crack or another, but you Americans are facing a genuine disaster that you can't avoid.

wwww said...

The United States has a lot of iron and coal, and there really was no excuse for our steel industry to become so lethargic

Has anyone visited Youngstown in the last 30 years?

Steel City. The old steel mills are closed down. Not just closed down, they are tore down. There is grass growing where the mills used to be. Jobs are gone. On the other hand, you can now see across valleys where it was smoggy in the 1950s. The river outside of Pittsburg used to light on fire.

Yes, it was glorious. People could support a family on one salary from the mills. Pay for a house with a yard, a car, a washing machine and a TV. A man could support his wife with this lifestyle. She could stay home with the kids. They could go to the movies on the weekend. There was enough money to pay for private Catholic K-12. An enviable fantasy for the rest of the world.

Young men could work in the mills for a summer and pay for college. No debt necessary. No student loans. Of course, public university was pretty darn cheap in the 1960s. Was it free in California in that decade? There was enough money for every high school grad in Ohio to be admitted to University of Ohio. That money is long gone.

The USA was the envy of the world for its living standards.

The great steel mills shut down. Smaller and smaller parts of them ran in the 70s and 80s. Then they got torn down. They've been gone for a generation.

It's not 1945-1963 anymore. It was a lovely, lucky, prosperous time to live in the USA.


JackWayne said...

Someone here has forgotten Obama’s “leading from behind “. Funny how that is the gold standard of “leadership”.

buwaya said...

Public college in the State and Community systems was free in California, and it remains extremely cheap now. My wife went to a State college. But this is because most of the cost is borne by the State.

The quality, however, is far from what it was.

The parallel UC system is even more expensive, and much more of the cost is borne by the student. This system is more like that of most US public university systems.

The cost of college in the US to both the State and individuals is extreme. In global terms it is ridiculously inefficient. Overstaffed beyond reason, loaded with unacademic frills, tangential priorities, and entirely lacking any sense of purpose.

Chuck said...

William said...
The criticism of Trump would be more effective if it were more selective.

That's right. And you don't see the Wall Street Journal going off on how Trump is a racist, or that he hates Mexicans, or that Trump has been bought by the Russians.

The Journal Editorial Board is saying that Trump's tariff proposal is bad because tariffs are bad policy. The Journal wanted Trump to release his tax returns because doing so is sort of basic to good government at that high level. The Journal has given little support to Special Counsel Robert Mueller, even calling for his removal. But the Journal also called on Trump to be transparent about all of his and his campaign's contacts with Russia.

I'm not caught up in the left-wing media hysteria. But it isn't just the far left that has unanswerable criticisms of Trump. Conservative media regularly sets forth non-hysterical criticism of Trump.

Bay Area Guy said...

Did you guys know there's CHAOS in the White House? I'm dead serious - there's real CHAOS there. That House (which is white) has all sorts of CHAOS. And I'd really prefer to live in a CHAOS-free world. There shouldn't be so much CHAOS in the news, on the Internet or in the White House. Why does Trump cause so much CHAOS? And why must it be in the White House?

I think we should really try to reduce the CHAOS in the White House. And maybe we should start with reducing the CHAOS on Twitter. That's pretty CHAOTIC too.

bagoh20 said...

"If Trump is as rich as he claims, he's an amazing cheapskate who's done almost nothing for charity in any substantial way, for someone of his claimed wealth."

Charity, like socialism, is a very ineffective way to help people. Free market capitalism with the same amount of capital input will produce not only direct results but even more from the indirect effects. In the end, it will help multiples more people by producing much more wealth, productivity,and progress, which will in turn breed more of the same. Most charity is essentially eating the seed corn. You may want to do it to feel good, or to make others appreciate you, but it's not the best way to produce the most benefit to others per cost. Trump, like most wealthy businessmen has done much more good getting rich than they could by chasing the appearance of virtue.

buwaya said...

The US could easily have "free" unversity education, on a European model, for the money it (all the States and Feds) already pays for this purpose. The problem is that US universities are vastly more expensive to run than European ones. There is tremendous inefficiency.

This is the same, btw, for healthcare/health insurance. The US could have the entire Canadian system, publicly financed, for what it already spends on Medicare, Medicaid, State expenditures, etc. Ditto inefficiency.

Hagar said...

50 years ago I worked for a general contractor in central Illinois and occasionally got to deal with one or the other of the major steel companies (for the end products, not raw steel, of course). They were generally honorable to deal with, but had a strong tendency to act like we, as the customer, should adjust to them rather than they to our needs.

Michael K said...

" I do not think Trump cares about that. He's focused on domestic politics."

I think Democrats are `100% on domestic politics and cannot imagine anyone who isn't

Trump is negotiating about NAFTA abuses that let the Chinese destroy our national security industries.

It is not healthy to have no domestic steel and aluminum industries.

A few facts on the steel quota story.

Each of the three proposals is intended to raise production of aluminum from the present 48% average capacity to 80%, a level that would provide the industry with long-term viability. Each remedy applies measures to all countries and all steel products to prevent circumvention.

The tariffs and quotas would be in addition to any duties already in place. The report recommends that a process be put in place to allow the Secretary to grant requests from U.S. companies to exclude specific products if the U.S. lacks sufficient domestic capacity or for national security considerations. Any exclusions granted could result in changed tariffs or quotas for the remaining products to maintain the overall effect.


China has been shipping huge stocks of steel and aluminum to Mexico and Canada, which then manufacture products with cheap steel and aluminum that undercut US products. That is not "Free Trade,"

The United States is the world’s largest importer of steel. Our imports are nearly four times our exports.
Six basic oxygen furnaces and four electric furnaces have closed since 2000 and employment has dropped by 35% since 1998.
World steelmaking capacity is 2.4 billion metric tons, up 127% from 2000, while steel demand grew at a slower rate.
The recent global excess capacity is 700 million tons, almost 7 times the annual total of U.S. steel consumption. China is by far the largest producer and exporter of steel, and the largest source of excess steel capacity. Their excess capacity alone exceeds the total U.S. steel-making capacity.
On an average month, China produces nearly as much steel as the U.S. does in a year. For certain types of steel, such as for electrical transformers, only one U.S. producer remains.
As of February 15, 2018, the U.S. had 169 antidumping and countervailing duty orders in place on steel, of which 29 are against China, and there are 25 ongoing investigations.


It's going to be interesting and much more complicated than CNN understands.

buwaya said...

Traditionally, steel manufacturing capacity meant power. Because it meant weapons, ammunition, logistics. And, usually, victory.

cubanbob said...

He's saying something that seems terribly obvious to me and perhaps to you, but I'm interested in the beginning of what I hope is a realization within mainstream media that all their melodrama about Trump hasn't worked and is incredibly tiresome to normal people who might still retain shreds of the old the habit of reading serious news."

Serious news? Well it has been obvious for decades that the supposedly serious news outlets were and are propaganda organs of the Left. Sure they throw in an actual fact here and there, especially if there is no propaganda value in that but other than that it's all editorialization masquerading as straight news. And they can't even pull that act off anymore with any semblance of credibility.

All this endless Trump bashing, circus mongering etc by the press is nothing more than the food critic of the NYT reporting on all the yelling and screaming in the restaurant's kitchen while ignoring what is being served to the dinners. The dinners so far are happy with the chef.

Chuck said...

buwaya said...
Chuck,
Why does every utterance of the President matter?
Or matter so much to you?

"Every utterance" of the President does NOT matter to me.

The lies matter to me.
The false and overblown promises meant something to me, especially during the primaries.
And the wildly incoherent statements mean something to me; when they are on important subjects like the future of immigration policy or gun controly policy, when they are uttered in the middle of critical delicate negotiations on those subjects.

So it matters to me, that Trump is falsely denying having said "shithole countries," or that he is lying trough his teeth about having paid off Stormy Daniels or the National Enquirer.

It matters to me, that Trump would say to a group of Senators that he'd accept a bipartisan deal on immigration and wouldn't place his own requirements on an agreed bill. And it matters to me, that Trump would say something like "I like taking the guns first. We'll do due process later."

I'm not griping about everything that Trump says. I don't know most of what Trump says. I don't see his screaming sessions where he berates anyone who he thinks has disappointed him or who is disloyal.

I'd LOVE to know "everything Trump says." I'd like to know, if Trump really talked about ditching the Gorsuch nomination after the kerfuffle with Senator Blumenthal.

I don't know everything that Trump says. I am picking on the ones that are undisputed, undeniable and which are nearly insane in their incoherence and/or irresponsibility.

mockturtle said...

Darrell asks: Didn't the kid set his rifle down and come out with his hands up? That's some act of heroism! I would quit before I showed up for a medal like that. Any real man would. Fake medals. Fake news.

What I'd heard was that the kid left his rifle behind and went to a nearby fast food restaurant where a customer identified him and notified the police.

Chuck said...

China has been shipping huge stocks of steel and aluminum to Mexico and Canada, which then manufacture products with cheap steel and aluminum that undercut US products. That is not "Free Trade,"

So how would Trump's tariff address that? What about the punitive tariffs on our strategic allies and trading partners Canada and Germany? That's where we are doing most of our steel trading.

buwaya said...

The US is in many ways more oppressively socialist, in fact, than many European countries. The scope of the US state systems and their appendages are not, generally, taken into account when comparing against more transparent European systems.

The US system of regulatory control of private enterprise includes both state and semi or non state elements, and it is actively antagonistic to the enterprises it regulates. The European systems on the other hand work flexibly and cooperatively to encourage business to be done.

The Euros have a host of different problems, both cultural and institutional, that hamper them vis-a-vis the US, but the differences between the US and Europe are in no way as simple as many claim.

Mark said...

the more that you can see how he is trying to position himself for the 2020 election

Way to look at Trump (the anti-politician) through the usual lens of career politics where everything is about the next election.

Actually, Trump is one of the very few who has committed to doing what he said he was going to do the last election. imagine that! Unheard of.

He is also rather adept at poking his opponents in the eye and proving what lying POSs they are. As in offering to do everything that his opponents want . . . only to have them still attacking him and knee-jerk opposing him on it.

Regarding deal-making -- there are a couple of ways to do this. (1) One is to make your opening offer low, but then be willing to negotiate up, to take a few steps closer to the other side in compromise. (2) Another method is to basically start with offering the other side what they want, knowing that they will probably reject it. Then when they do reject it and demand even more, instead of taking a step toward them, you take a step back. --

I'll give you $30,000 for that car you want to sell. No? OK, I'll give you $25,000 for it. Still won't take it? How about $20,000? I don't see anyone else offering you anything -- so you want to take it or do you want me to walk out the door? Then, instead of #30,000, you now have nothing.

It's the Michael Corleone method of negotiating. Trump knows a bit of it too.

buwaya said...

Chuck,

"Lies"?

Go check out your local high school, and what they are telling the kids. Multiply by thousands of high schools, and millions of teachers. Add in every university, and all of their staff.

You complain of the buzzing of one fly on your veranda, while over the way there is a cloud of them that blots out the sun.
Go fight that, why don't you.

wildswan said...

In his State of the Union Trump said: The era of economic surrender is totally over,... From now on, we expect trading relationships to be fair and, very importantly, reciprocal ... We will work to fix bad trade deals and negotiate new ones. And they will be good ones. But they will be fair.

So work on trade deals might have been expected. And the way the US steel industry was ruined by unfair trade deals (or trade deals that played out unfairly without protest from our government) made that an obvious place for Trump to go to work. And now he is doing it. And why are media-wokies surprised? Because Twitter is talking about something else, that's why. It's like high school. "Everyone is talking about X" meaning a small group has set a tone, a gossipy, silly tone. "We should be doing Academy Awards and David Hogg. The US steel industry? Really?"
And in the end Trump just keeps working on his different policies and getting stuff done. And the left just keeps trying to get non-wokies to admit they are worthless, the kind of thing will never happen. The only thing that will change is number of people who realize that name-calling is what the left is doing and that name-calling is all the left is doing. While Trump was reviving manufacturing, the steel industry, coal mining. #MeWokieToo

cubanbob said...

WWWW what part of countervailing duties do you not understand? Stripped of the Trumpian bombast that is what he is calling for. He isn't the first president to impose countervailing duties. Chuck the countervailing duties on the underlying steel that Mexico imports from China to fabricate and export to the US will over time result in either the Mexicans expanding their domestic steel production or import steel from the US (more likely).

hstad said...

"If Trump is as rich as he claims, he's an amazing cheapskate who's done almost nothing for charity in any substantial way, for someone of his claimed wealth."

And Chuck, you know exactly what Pres. Trump donates to charity??? Share us his tax returns for the past 3 years so you can prove to us that you are not a hypocrite. Truly, amazing observation on your part - also, meaningless throw away set of comments.

buwaya said...

It costs the Chinese a small fraction of what it costs the US to build naval vessels of comparable capability.

They are therefore building them at a rate at least 3X the US. Likewise combat aircraft. And likewise, no doubt, any number of things we are not aware of. Yet.

And they have the reserve capacity (ex. see steel production capacity) to expand very rapidly, should the moment arrive. Consider what the US did with its excess capacity in WWII.

Big Mike said...

More to the point, I'd like Chuck to share with us his tax returns. I'd be surprised if he gave more than a pittance to charity.

Darrell said...

What I'd heard was that the kid left his rifle behind and went to a nearby fast food restaurant where a customer identified him and notified the police.

Even a better reason to give the cop a medal. It's tough to pull yourself away from the donut shop.

Sam L. said...

Mr. Trump is a master of Lamont Cranston's ability to cloud the minds of men and women who hate him. Drives them NUTS.

Bruce Hayden said...

“When I was watching The Today Show on Wednesday, they gave one of the Deputies in Florida a medal for capturing the school shooter. Didn't the kid set his rifle down and come out with his hands up? That's some act of heroism! I would quit before I showed up for a medal like that. Any real man would. Fake medals. Fake news.”

As I understand it, after he was done shooting, Cruz dumped his gun, etc, and blended in with the rest of the students, as they left the school, under the supervision of the police. Remember the lines of students with their hands on the shoulders of the one in front of them? That’s how he got out. But one of the teachers apparently recognized him as the shooter, they put out an APB/BOLO for him, and he was later identified and arrested, without incident.

The interesting thing to me is that the conspiracy theorists on the right are going berserk about the shootings. Some teacher supposedly saw someone dressed in helmet, body armor, face mask, etc, shooting, and the timing, plus his exit pretty well guarantees that that person wasn’t Cruz. And then there is news footage from a chopper showing four guys dressed in black exiting the building, throwing a large heavy bag in the back of a white pickup, and leaving. And, then it looked like YouTube, etc were actively suppressing/deleting videos showing that. Compounding this, of course, the Broward “Cowards” (aka BCSD) were sitting on the video of the actual shooting. Of course, it didn’t help that the school’s video system apparently had a half an hour delay, supposedly incorporated to allow the deputies at the schools as resource officers to doctor the record when they decided to ignore criminality caught on video at the schools, in order to keep their statistics improving, thus generating more federal bonuses for the county.

Comanche Voter said...

What's not normal since January 2017--for that matter since mid November 2016 when Hillary woke up from her fever dream and realized--or at least was told--that the country had rejected her, is the view that elections have consequences and now it's time to either support the new President, or at least accept results with something rising at least to the level of ill grace.

The Donald is not perfect; you sometimes wish that someone would cut off his little Twitter (feed that is).

But what's also not normal is the volume level on the baying of hounds and yapping of curs in the media. Their favorite lost and by Gum! they're going to pull the house down. I don't mind if the house lands on them---but leave me and half the rest of the country out of it.

walter said...

" it remains the case that this has been a chaotic presidency and it has not advanced the country's best interests. There is no sense of leadership in this presidency or even, as many have noted, ownership of the presidency. "
--
Find the substance in THAT ramble.

readering said...

It's not a question of whether the melodrama works for MSM. It's what they're witnessing. Including incredible levels of leaking from within the Trump and WH camps.

Achilles said...

The only thing that hasn't been normal since 2016 is the left. They have lost it.

Our economy is growing again after 8 years of Obama malaise.

We are retaining and recouping our freedom from a bureaucracy that was allowed to be out of control and a cabal that tried to destroy the rule of law.


The left thought they had brought the United States down after trying for the last 240+ years. But they found out most people legally voting in this country don't want them.

If the globablists didn't own the media we would be in the most normal time this country has known.

Achilles said...

readering said...

It's not a question of whether the melodrama works for MSM. It's what they're witnessing. Including incredible levels of leaking from within the Trump and WH camps.

readering got this little tidbit from "someone close to Trump."

readering is too stupid to understand what this means. Good little leftist tool. Nice little tool.

Ralph L said...

Now if Trump can fix the pollution regs and union avarice....

wwww said...

WWWW what part of countervailing duties do you not understand? Stripped of the Trumpian bombast that is what he is calling for. He isn't the first president to impose countervailing duties. Chuck the countervailing duties on the underlying steel that Mexico imports from China to fabricate and export to the US will over time result in either the Mexicans expanding their domestic steel production or import steel from the US (more likely).


1. My working assumption is that these tariffs will not be imposed. I think this is about political discourse and the Pennsylvania election. We'll see if it happens next week. I could be wrong.

2, Bush imposed tariffs and steel and repealed them a year later. Harder to keep it up after other countries put their own tariffs into place.

3. It's a lot more expensive to re-build the steel plants after they've been shut down. Have you all seen the number of plants shut down in Ohio and Pennsylvania? Every year I visited and I watched the big ones shut down over time. The time for tariffs on steel were in the 70s and 80s. The number of American workers in steel is a small fraction of what they were in the 60s.

Hey, if it works then I'll cheer. Mark me down as highly skeptical.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Chuck,
Did you ever play sports? You're acting like one of those parents who complains about the refs not calling a "ticky-tack" foul on the other team, when their team has been hacking the entire game with nothing called. Trump's lies are so insignificant when compared to Hillary's and Obama's, they would barely show up in a bar graph. Yet all you do is obsess about them.

Achilles said...

Chuck said...

The lies matter to me.

But Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama lies were A OK with Chuck.

We know what your real problem with Trump and the little people that support him Chuck.

rcocean said...

Amazing how the Liberals, the Life long Republicans, and the GOPe RINOs all hate the American Steel Industry and Aluminium industry.

"Just let it die" they say.

Well, Trump is going to try to save it.

And screeching about "Trade War!111" is the sign of the ignorant.

rcocean said...

The USA is the biggest importer of steel and aluminum. In fact we run massive trade deficits will almost every country in the world.

We're the biggest, richest, market in the world. We have the upper hand. Other countries have massive tariffs against Chinese Steel. See the EU.

There's no need for the USA to negotiate bad trade deals or let other countries abuse us in trade. Period.

Raising a tariff is no different than favoring or not favoring certain industries when we negotiate - and re-negotiate - NAFTA or the TPP or any other trade deal.

Michael K said...

WWWW, Here's a book you migbt read.

It's dangerous, it's exciting, and it's on the edge of technology and innovation. Nucor is opening an unproven "small" steel mill in Indiana, designing it as they go along, a project that covers an area equivalent to several football fields. Bringing the story to us is Richard Preston, an author who later delivered two non-fiction bestsellers about viruses, and "First Light," a book about the Mt. Palomar Oberservatory. In "American Steel" Preston delves immediately into the personalities of his hot metal men, profiling Ken Iverson, a hands-off CEO, and he visits the saloon to elicit opinions from foremen, managers, and steelworkers as readily as he does at the jobsite, on the casting platform, or around a negotiating table in Germany where the infernal casting machine is finally purchased. At roughly 2900 Degrees Fahrenheit, liquid steel gives off blackbody radiation that blisters skin, and will cause solid concrete, or human flesh, to explode on contact. Preston explores all of the angles in a riveting account that puts you within heating distance of the smelting process and at the exciting forefront of a tough business enterprise; adding in just a dash of physics to create an alloy of glistening stainless readability.

Like an embedded journalist at war, Richard Preston inserted himself into a group of Nucor employees in order to write American Steel. The subject of his attention was the group who conceived, designed and built a revolutionary compact strip steel mill in the late-1980s. And as the title suggests, the technological revolution that took place in Crawfordsville, Indiana would transform the rust belt and make American steel producers world-class competitors.

Preston's research was exhaustive, beginning with the late Nucor CEO F. Kenneth Iverson. The story takes the reader through Iverson's first foray into mini-mills, a long shot diversification that was needed to save the company. That risk paid off handsomely, and set the stage for the events of 1988. Preston also took a close look at Keith Busse and Mark Millett, the general manager and metallurgist for the revolutionary plant in Crawfordsville. (Although not covered, Busse, Millett and engineer Richard Teets went on to create Steel Dynamics a few years after these events took place.)

Some of the most fascinating parts of American Steel occurred outside the Midwestern rust belt. For example, readers get a close up look at Iverson's lean organizational structure, including its very Spartan corporate headquarters in Charlotte, North Carolina. (The corporate dining room was Phil's delicatessen, an inexpensive haunt just across the street in a strip mall!) Iverson, readers soon learn, was a smart engineer, a daring entrepreneur and industrial cowboy all rolled into one person.


From an Amazon review,.

I doubt a steel renaissance would come from the old open hearth methods of US Steel.

Making steel economic to make again is a strategic necessity.

If China decides to go to war, we won't beat them with facebook.

wwww said...


Interesting. yes the cost of manufacturing it was a big reason it went under.

I had relatives in both coal and steel. My great grandfather owned a coal mine in Pennsylvania.

Unknown said...

"positioning himself for 2020"

Lol Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and won the electoral college by a few votes per precinct in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin. He and his party is so reviled by blacks, women, and millenials (who will be the largest voting bloc as of 2019) that it can't event hold Alabama senate seats.

Yeah American are tired, Ann. They're tired of Drama Queen Trump and his apologists, like you.

Michael K said...

"Yeah American are tired, Ann. They're tired of Drama Queen Trump and his apologists, like you."

I hope all is well with you, Inga.

readering said...

Hmm some like drama here . . . .

MaxedOutMama said...

There have been many very crazy weeks in US political history. Any expert who thinks this is up there with historical tops is disqualifying him- or herself as an expert.

tcrosse said...

"All my friends are tired, Ann. They're tired of Drama Queen Trump and his apologists, like you."

FIFY

Drago said...

Buwaya: "Chuck,
Why does every utterance of the President matter?
Or matter so much to you?"

Because Trump exposed Chuck and his lefty allies as a bunch of know-nothings.

And when your ego is as brittle as Chucks, that can never be allowed to stand.

Its really quite sad and explains fully why attacking kids and celebrating the doxxing of 15 yr olds who dare defy Chucks beloved lefty MSM is now par for the course for our #StrongDurbinDefender.

Drago said...

Unknown Inga: "Yeah American are tired, Ann. They're tired of Drama Queen Trump and his apologists, like you."

Sounds as if "Trump has no path to 270"...........again......

Drago said...

ARM is probably trying to recover from the truth of European No-Go zones is finally being admitted to by all of Ingas "New Leaders Of The Free World".......all of whom are under water in the polls and cant even form a govt!

But Trump is all chaos-y.

Uh huh.

James K said...

But what's also not normal is the volume level on the baying of hounds and yapping of curs in the media.

Not to omit that of the LLRs and Never Trumpers.

Henry said...

You don't see chaos if you don't care.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Writes CNN political analyst Julian Zelizer (who is a Princeton history and public affairs professor).
. . .
"Other than lashing out against immigrants, Trump thus far has done nothing to fulfill his promise beyond coasting on the growing economy that he inherited."

"As Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation intensifies and creeps closer to the President himself . . . "

Somebody needs to audit this fellow's resume'.

Unknown said...

Except that little part where Hillary won millons more votes. Trump was rejected, and he continues to be. Most of the country isn't going to tolerate minority rule, nor a vulgar, crass, bigoted fake president and his unpatriotic cult, nor should they. The United States will be fine, as youth activists and the results in Alabama and elsewhere indicate. Treason Trump and his tyrannical minority party will be dragged down because most Americans are too smart to be fooled by dishonest understatements like "The Donald is not perfect." No he isn't: he's a crappy human being and worse president, and he has earned every bit of revulsion he gets with his awful, awful choices.

Drago said...

Chucks primary role is simply to advance, to the best of his ability, each and every daily lefty narrative.

It is impossible to discern any difference whatsoever in the ravings of Maddow or Behar and Chucky....which is by design.

Drago said...

Unknown: "Trump was rejected, and he continues to be."

"Rejected"...all the way to the White House.

What would "non-rejection" look like?

3 scoops of ice cream?
An extra 17 diet cokes?
A little more ketchup on his steak?
Award Miles given for Air Force One trips?

Scott said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tcrosse said...

Except that little part where Hillary won millons more votes.

In California. Congratulations.

Scott said...

Have you ever played with a cat using a laser pointer? The cat chases the light beam as if it were something that could be caught. And so, Trump plays with CNN.

Lewis Wetzel said...

" . . . and he has earned every bit of revulsion he gets with his awful, awful choices."
My 403b is up 20% since election day, 2016.
My take home pay is up by $1800 year, thanks to the GOP tax cut.

Michael K said...

No he isn't: he's a crappy human being and worse president, and he has earned every bit of revulsion he gets with his awful, awful choices.

Inga is going to insist that she not get that tax cut. I can see it now.

Courageous elderly ex-nurse stands strong !

James K said...

Hillary won millons more votes

Yawn. So she gets a participation award. Honorable Mention. Runner Up. All accounted for by the huge margin in California where two Democrats were running for Senate. Give it up already. Liberals are such sore losers.

Unknown said...

He definitely has a path: if the virulently anti-Trump millenial generation stops reaching voting age
if the angry women unleashed go back to their pre-2017 complacency, if his campaign can get away again with meeting Russian operatives in Trump Tower unnoticed, if the FBI director once again throws his opponent under the bus a week before the election, and if Twitter and Facebook reverse its moves to prevent Russian fake news propaganda, then Trump can definitely hang onto 70k Rust Belt votes.

Of course, if all that was happening, then Republicans wouldn't be losing senate seats in Alabama. But, yes, he most assuredly has a path lol

Unknown said...

You too Vladimir.

Unknown said...

How's Senator Roy Moore workin out for ya?

exhelodrvr1 said...

Unknown,
What percentage, would you guess, of the illegals voted in the last election? Seeing as they 1) were encouraged to vote and 2) had so much to gain from a Hillary win? and 3) Very few locations required voter ID. 25% maybe? That would be 3-6 M votes for Hillary. Which would erase Hillary's popular vote lead. Are you OK with that?

Unknown said...

Californians are Americans, no matter how much unpatriotic Trumpanzees wish they weren't.

Hillary won the votes of more Americans than Trump. Get over it.

Unknown said...

Me Me Me: the same myopia that cost Republicans an Alabama senate seat.

Most Americans aren't going to gain anything from Trump's tax cuts for billionaires.

Unknown said...

She won the popular vote by millions of votes. Californians are Americans. I realize that Trump's unpopularity, which lost their party an Alabama senate seat and is triggering a blue wave, is triggering for Republicans, but there's no need to be so defending about it.

Trumpanzees are such sore losers of Alabama senate seats, red seats all over the country, and the 2016 popular vote.

James K said...

Hillary won the votes of more Americans than Trump. Get over it.

Oh we're over it. Sky high. Ecstatic. Something tells me the sore losers who still complain about it are not, though.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Blogger tcrosse said...
Except that little part where Hillary won millons more votes.
In California. Congratulations.


The fierce anti-colonialists who occupy coastal America insist that it is their moral duty to rule the benighted millions who live in the American interior. In their bigotry and ignorance, these "nativists" are unable to understand what is in their own best interests.
This responsibility is more than a burden the anti-colonialists are willing to bear.
It is their manifest destiny.
Excelsior!

Unknown said...

There is zero evidence at all that millions of illegals voted in 2016. It's a lie Trump and his cult tell due to their snowflake anger that he lost the popular vote by millions of votes.

And if that weren't relevant, you wouldn't be so invested in telling lies to explain why.

James K said...

Hey, the Patriots got more total yards in the Super Bowl than the Eagles. Give them the trophy!

Hammond X. Gritzkofe said...

"Despite what many are saying ..." ADVOCACY JOURNALISM ALERT!

Unknown said...

Must be why you're so defensive about it and still diminishing Americans who live in California and making up lies about millions of illegals voting to explain it away.

MrCharlie2 said...

Achilles said...

But Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama lies were A OK

Those guys lies were basically major policy pronouncements which turned out to be some where on the scale from had-to-be-walked-back and totally bogus from the outset. You can count them on one hand for each (may be all fingers and toes for Clinton and Bush2).

Trump lies casually and constantly, trivially and bigly. We have a president whose every utterance is on a weird scale from ignorant bullshit to arrogant, empty threats.

Quaestor said...

An unknown moron wrote: Californians are Americans, no matter how much unpatriotic Trumpanzees wish they weren't.

Some are. Some are not. Whether you prefer 'undocumented' to illegal, non-citizens are not citizens, and cannot legally vote even though some corrupt jurisdictions turn a blind eye to their fraudulent balloting or actively encourage the chicanery. Get over it.

The same anonymous cretin also wrote: Hillary won the votes of more Americans than Trump. Get over it.

That may be true, or it may be false. Uncertainty is what happens when the process of democracy is as corrupted as it has become in California. However, true or not it is also irrelevant. Donald Trump is President. Get over it.

Unknown said...

Trump lost the popular vote kids, no matter how much you whine and cry about it. He won the electoral college and that's fine (actually, working out pretty well since it's swept in a blue wave that is going to wipe Republicans out, which would not happen with Hillary in office). But there's no need to be defensive about it, or pretend like Hillary was rejected Trump was rejected. He got more votes. And his party is losing red seats everywhere because he is still being rejected. The pendulum swings back and forth. Get over it!

Lewis Wetzel said...

I'm thinking of using "Excelsior!" as tagline. Much more deliberately ironic than PB&J's "Well, that's what I thunk as I sat in the shithouse this bright and shining mornin'" or whatever weightmaker he's using these days.

Excelsior! To the highest!


"Try not the Pass!" the old man said;
"Dark lowers the tempest overhead,
The roaring torrent is deep and wide!"
And loud that clarion voice replied,
Excelsior!

Do you think that it might become tiresome?

Unknown said...

No it's true. Your assertion otherwise is false. There's no evidence of millons of illegals voting. It's a lie.

Donald Trump won the electoral college true. But he lost the popular vote. Get over it.

buwaya said...

Anyone (well, any American) who really wants to improve anything is I think well advised to begin at the local and state level, and from there reform the public schools (K-12). A lot of your rot begins there.

- Restore ability tracking, to ID and separate out the talented, or even the above average, that they at least can be taught with historically typical level of material. The old middlebrow culture needs to be restored, this is a good start. Also, this was an essential starting point for social mobility in both the US and Europe. Universally dumbed-down schools are a failed system. Britains case was an excellent natural experiment, wherein social mobility started to fail after the end of the 11-plus and the Grammar schools, Maggie Thatchers worst idea.

- Reassert ideological control of content and purpose, especially regarding history, literature and civic dogma. The schools are the most powerful tools for creating tribalism in the US. Do not permit the schools of education to determine what American identity consists of. Perhaps you should eliminate schools of education entirely.

Have your states pass a statement of required tenets of civic virtue and the required themes in the material of the public schools, and set up an inspectorate to enforce it. This is what most countries do.

- Eliminate or reduce special ed. This is a tremendous money and attention-sink.

- Restore trade schools, apprenticeships and crafts-professional training.

- Restore and intensify physical education. Your kids need vastly more exercise.

- Remove excess liability risks for school - i.e., restrict their liability. They avoid trades, exercise and dealing rationally with special ed because of this.

- Lastly, and this is only relevant in a few places, as that horse has long since left the barn, restrict ability to sue re civil rights/integration. A tremendous time and attention sink, for absolutely no benefit to any kids.

buwaya said...

California is and has always made it difficult to inspect or audit its voting process. They certainly aren't about to cooperate now. There are major parts of California that are so intensely corrupt (we are talking modern Mexico-level here) that it surprises me that anyone can assume probity in elections.

buwaya said...

Unwillingness to enforce, or audit = no proof

rcocean said...

"There's no evidence of millons of illegals voting. It's a lie."

Nope its the truth.

California AUTOMATICALLY registers illegals as voters through motor voter

They don't check for citizenship. Its against the law.

California has 10% of USA population. Lots, and Lots of illegals vote. Millions.

rcocean said...

Every Blue state in the USA lets illegals vote and REFUSES to check for citizenship.

Somebody in Pennsylvania is suing over it.

As they should.

John Pickering said...

Petulant Ann, who perhaps has just attended the school play, hopes that the mainstream news media realize that

all their melodrama about Trump hasn't worked and is incredibly tiresome.

Hasn't worked, one presumes, in breaking through the cul-de-sac of Ann's mind, out in the holler of the tribe. Nothing about Trump is serious, or decent, or honest, in Ann's view, and that's a feature of the man and how he leads. The more vile and vicious, the more Ann applauds.

Ann will have to self-censor a little more severely, if even the Daily Mail is getting in on it.

buwaya said...

Pickering, what do you know about your local public schools?

Michael K said...

Poor Inga. Still trying to order the tide to retreat.

Trump lost the popular vote kids, no matter how much you whine and cry about it.

Trump lost the popular vote in California by 5 million. He carried the rest of the country by about 2 million.

Hillary is president of California.

Los Angeles is about 33% illegal alien.

tcrosse said...

More nose pickering.

Lewis Wetzel said...

This Snopes article about the California motor-voter law is a marvel:

Did California Pass a Law Allowing Undocumented Immigrants to Vote in Federal Elections?
California did pass a law intended to increase voter turnout, but the state has not made it legal for undocumented residents to vote.

https://www.snopes.com/california-motor-voter-act/
It uses the ol' strawman technique. It claims that it is FALSE! that California made it legal for illegals to vote in state & fed elections, but I've never heard anyone make this argument. Instead they argue that the law has made it easier for illegal aliens to cast votes, and, in fact, the Snopes article confirms that this is true.
Snopes is one of prominent go-to "fact checkers" used by the tech giants to detect "fake news."

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Donald Trump won the electoral college true. But he lost the popular vote. Get over it.

3/3/18, 5:04 PM

LOL, Inga the moron, I have no problem with that at all. You're the slack-jawed dunce who keeps insisting that "Hillary won the popular vote!" means something. You know what, genius? If Hillary racked up 10 or 20 million more votes and they were all in California and NY and Illinois, Trump would still be in the WH. You apparently sat there and picked your nose and gazed out the window when the teacher explained how the electoral college works and now you're all butt hurt about it. Too bad, twit.

Donald Trump is the president of the United States and Hillary is wandering in the woods and swilling vodka. Deal with it, nimrod.

Drago said...

Inga: "Donald Trump won the electoral college true. But he lost the popular vote. Get over it."

LOL

We were "over it" right about 2:30am on November 9, 2016.

John henry said...

Good to see you back, Inga. I thought we had lost you to despair.

You said:

But he lost the popular vote. Get over it.

What is there to get over? Why the Hell should we care who won the popular vote? It is completely irrelevant to anything.

And yet here you are repeating this 6-8 times.

How many illegals voted in Cali? Nobody knows because Cali will not investigate themselves and won't let anyone else investigate. Although the Homeland Security Dept is continuing the nationwide voter fraud investigation. So maybe we will find out something.

And Philadelphia is say that due to a "glitch" (their word) in the DMV, something like 100,000 non citizens were registered in recent years. They won't tell us how many voted. There is currently a lawsuit to find that information.

Go ahead with your popular vote nonsense if it makes you feel better. You probably think that the US is a "democracy" too. More fool you. Never was and will take some serious constitutional tinkering to make it one.

Here's an exercise for you. Read the US Constitution and tell us where, article and section, it gives any US citizen any right to vote at all. Closest it comes is saying that people who can vote for state legislatures can vote for Congressional representatives.

But who can vote for legislature is up to the states, thus ultimately voting for rep is up to the states.

John Henry

Drago said...

Hillary is both President and Queen of California.

And Bill is her loving and adoring beau.

Mountain Maven said...

I assume anything on CNN is a lie.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Our amazing founding Father spent 8 chaos filled years as Commanding General of the Continental Armies, and yet he never won a battle until the French Army and Navy arrived and closed the trap on Cornwallis at Yorktown. Generals Gates and Green had won their battles. But Washington did not win one other than to cross a river once in a successful Christmas eve raid. But He never won any real battles.

Yet all of Europe and all of the United States has forever after called him a great war leader for playing the hand that he was dealt like a Master General and a legendary Roman Cincinnatus. He had defeated the British Empire that started out with a 100 to 1 more military might and a 1000 to 1 more financial and industrial resources.

And like GW, our stable Genius just keeps rolling along with 7 years to go.

buwaya said...

Snopes modus operandi is to restate the question as an easily refuted strawman.

Sometimes, way down somewhere out of sight, they credit some part of the "pro" argument. Just as an out, I think, when challenged. Snopes is a propaganda operation, one of the more clever ones.

Birkel said...

I do not believe that is Inga.
This is a different obnoxious troll, imo.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

And it's not the fault of us deplorables that the Democrats stupidly spent money in California and Illinois and other blue states they had in the bag anyway, while avoiding Wisconsin. It's not our fault Hillary sat on her fat ass and raked in cash while Trump was making campaign stops in 3 swing states a day. Anybody who is not an idiot, or a Democrat (but I repeat myself) can see full well how terribly her campaign was managed and how awful she was. That wasn't the fault of the Russians either. Robby Mook had more to do with Hill's loss than Putin did.

Trump won because he worked his ass off to win. Hill expected victory would just fall in her lap - because she has a vagina, and it was her turn.

walter said...

Gov. McAuliff delivered a few..

Drago said...

Shorter Inga: The Patriots had more first downs than the Eagles!

Get over it Eagles fans....

Drago said...

I understand that Oxnard, CA has just declared Hillary Generalissimo For Life.

So she's got that going for her....which is nice.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

I wonder if they would need a special cargo helicopter to throw Inga from. I think her fat ass might be too heavy for a regular model. Was there perhaps one that they used to transport whales?

tim in vermont said...

When you are losing, everything seems swimming out of control and it seems like you are being pushed backwards down a hill. The media thinks that they are America.

David said...

Trump is also conducting an International trade negotiation.

He leads off by doing something that everyone else was afraid to do, because they thought it might bring the world to and end.

The world will not end, and Trump's counterparts will be fearful and confused.

Obama: threats but no action.

Trump: Action enhances the impact of any future treats.

Is Trump's path more effective? Time will tell but he is off to a good start.

John henry said...

In Puerto Rico we don't have to worry about illegals or even legal non-citizens getting signed up to vote when they get a driver's license.

1) You cannot sign up to vote at DMV. You can only register at State Election Commission offices.

2) You cannot get a standard driver's license without proof of US citizenship. You can't even renew your driver's license without a US birth certificate, US passport and/or SS card. 2 out of 3. Aliens must provide proof of legality and their license identifies them as non-US citizens.

3) With vary rare exceptions, you can't vote without a valid Voter ID card from the SEC.

4) Again, with rare exceptions, even if you did sneak through the registration process somehow, you can only vote in person, on election day, between about 10AM and 2PM.

5) Then, just to make sure no Russkies hack the results, you vote by making an X with a pencil beside the candidate's name. We don't even trust Scantron type systems. All votes are handcounted.

Result? We don't even have jokes about electoral dishonesty here. They would not make any sense. We trust our elections.

You folks in the northern 50 are insane the way you allow elections to be conducted.

John Henry

Drago said...

"I wonder if they would need a special cargo helicopter to throw Inga from."

Take a gander at the CH-54B Tarhe.

Lewis Wetzel said...

And it's not the fault of us deplorables that the Democrats stupidly spent money in California and Illinois and other blue states they had in the bag anyway, while avoiding Wisconsin.
Hillary outspent Trump 2:1, and the still powerful MSM was both pro-Hillary & anti-Trump.
Democrats need to be asking themselves some hard questions. Instead they invent conspiracy theories about Russia & the Trump campaign. I suppose they believe that this strategy may get them the 50% +1 they need to control the congress & the presidency. Then they can bring their iron fist down on the irredeemable deplorables who make up 50% -1 of the voters.

Francisco D said...

I'm over it Inga.

I grew up a Cubs fan, hating the White Sox. (That's a North Side-South Side thing).

They played last year in a game where the Cubbies got 12 hits, but only three runs. The White Sox got only 6 hits but scored 4 runs.

Dammit. It's not fair that the Cubbies lost. They had more hits!

Hagar said...

Californians are Americans? Then they should not object to showing us some proof of that.

John henry said...

I've always been a pretty hard core free trader. I am very much against the steel and aluminum tarriffs.

But I can see a possible bright side to things.

Trade is trade. When we send $1mm to China for a load of steel, we wind up with the steel and China winds up with $1mm. The $1mm is worthless in China. For the steel to be anything other than a gift, China has to:

1) Buy something from the US. Or from a 3rd country which then puts that country in the same position.

2) Invest in the US. Buy farmland, buildings, invest in companies or some such. I would include lending to US companies and individuals in this.

3) Buy US bonds, helping to finance the deficit.

So if China has fewer US dollars they need to get rid of, they will be able to finance less of the deficit.

That might have some effect in starving the US govt. Starving the swamp creatures is almost as good as draining the swamp. They go hand in hand.

So I am still against tariffs for a whole bunch of reasons. But, if my reasoning above is right and there is less money to finance govt, well, there's a dark cloud with a silver lining.

John Henry

John henry said...

FWIW and completely off topic:

An article in StormFront says that the blunt force trauma found on Heather Heyer was the result of CPR. That it occurred after, not before, the heart attack.

John Henry

John henry said...

And then there is this, Inga. Donald Trump was had a higher approval rating on March 1 2018 than Obama had on March 1 2010.

Put that on your plate.

John Henry

Lewis Wetzel said...

I am a big believer in classical economics. I am one of the few people, I believe, who has actually read Wealth of Nations from cover to cover. Adam Smith was correct in laying out the general scheme that increases wealth. It is important for our friends on the Left to remember that Keynes never believe that his ideas replaced classical economics, they modified classical economics -- and did so in response to the unique political conditions of the post WWI political situation. Much of Keynes' work involved taking into account the "friction" on the market caused by trade unionism and complex supply chains. Those issues aren't nearly as important in 2018 as they were in the 1920s & 1930s.
But nevertheless I am not a free market market purist (any more than Adam Smith was). People are not economic units. I have noticed a tendency for the #nevertrumpers (like Jonah Goldberg) to be more free market oriented than they were before the election of Trump.
They believe that GDP growth is the most important thing. They shouldn't. The United States is a Hell of a lot more than a "going concern."

Guildofcannonballs said...

"Anyone (well, any American) who really wants to improve anything is I think well advised to begin at the local and state level, and from there reform the public schools (K-12). A lot of your rot begins there.

Much rot has been shown deviantly begot by others, others scattered with all of it*.

I want to improve things beyond any.

Why hadn't your vast, vast knowledge of others, "booklearning" according to some, prepared you to go to war with the army you have?

Are you building a better army?

*Just ate at Waffle House today, loved it, and they label their hashbrowns "scattered" and with, or without one presumes, "all of it" according to the various things hidden to the observer ingesting away in a booth, but not to those of us at the counter.

With listening programed into us, derp derp.

As any American knows, we will enjoy the slaughter just a little, NOT COMPARED TO THE SPANIARDS THOUGH, too much for what a perfect person's ideals might conjur as worthy of shaming.

Guildofcannonballs said...

We, us Americans, do deserve every single last emotion emoted our way.

We do, us, deserve that. Indeed. We reached that high. Strove so much more. So harder.

Drago said...

Guildofcannonballs: ""Anyone (well, any American) who really wants to improve anything is I think well advised to begin at the local and state level, and from there reform the public schools (K-12)."

In general, the public schools and the bureaucracy that goes with it is hopeless.

You are much better off sending your kids to private schools and I highly recommend working with non-profits and like-minded foundations/grantors to fund scholarships to those private schools for as many school children and their families as possible.

gadfly said...

"Escape from reality" has been the only consistent theme of the Trump dictatorship. Make-believe logic is being imposed upon random acts performed by an imbecile who believes that he is an actor in a so-called "reality drama" with no plot except "make Trump think that he is looking good."

Sadly, today's unplanned emotional outburst from our "leader" eventually ends in economic distress for the American people. In a nutshell, Donald Trump engages in the illogical mantra: "yesterday is gone and tomorrow never comes."

As for our future, this old-time gangster will never go away - he will just return to the underworld from whence he came and the Trumpsters will continue to believe!

Guildofcannonballs said...

Sorry to misquote honey Bu Bu, I tend to mistake Bradie Tennell's eyebrows for quote marks after a Jameson or six.

D.E. Cloutier said...

Look at the top fashion designers. Look at 5-star hotels. Look at world-class restaurants. Look at the yacht business, the jet charter business, the luxury car business. In many industries, business is theater. That's all you need to know to understand Trump.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"'Escape from reality' has been the only consistent theme of the Trump dictatorship."
Is the irony in that statement intentional, Mr. Gadfly?

Douglas B. Levene said...

Someone should tell the Washington Post. It has yet another front page story today titled, "'Pure madness’: Dark days inside the White House as Trump shocks and rages." Ho hum.

gadfly said...

Lewis Wetzel said...
"'Escape from reality' has been the only consistent theme of the Trump dictatorship."
Is the irony in that statement intentional, Mr. Gadfly?

Dramatic irony, perhaps. That's what gadflies do.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Why are you idiots addressing me? I haven’t commented on this stupid thread. I’m not wasting my precious time on you people.

Drago said...

Wow. Gadfly, Inga and Chuck all have their panties in a wad tonight.

This, despite Hillary being the President and Generallisimo For Life of California.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Why are you idiots addressing me? I haven’t commented on this stupid thread. I’m not wasting my precious time on you people.

I find that the most likely explanation for gossip is that the gossiper is boring. I mean, they find Trump entertaining, for crying out loud. Just think of how boring someone would have to be to find that douchebag entertaining. He's basically a Germanic guido.

Speaking of stupid idiots, boring and Trump, this demented "Trump Derangement Syndrome" tag has got to go. Ever noticed how it never caught on in the popular culture? Yeah, me too. That's because it's execrable nonsense. You might as well call the psychiatrists and other caretakers at an insane asylum deranged. Of course, that's often what the inmates do. Think about what that says about Trump sympathizers. Basically lunatics following the most maniacal lunatic of all. The behavior of justifying him reminds me of when chimps (or the psychotic) vie for power in the jungle or a ward of a hospital. Basically a lot of grunting, lip smacking, clapping and jumping around while the "leader" of the psychopaths/lower primates does something really physically destructive. They find hope in his destruction.

This blog could be a follow-up to the opening scene of bone smashing in 2001 A Space Odyssey to show the regression/stagnation of the non-liberal wing of humanity. There's a direct link from there to here without much growth or advancement.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

A clip of Republicans excitedly catching on to Trump's "leadership" potential.

cubanbob said...

Fortunately Inga showed up to disprove that the noxious Unknown is not Inga. Unknow is far too nasty to be Inga.

Unknown here is a clue (as mentioned by others above thread), the presidential election is composed of fifty separate elections with the winner being the one who won the majority of the states, not the majority of the total votes. So in 2020 the Democrat can win every single vote (both legal and illegal) in every state Hillary won in 2016 and Trump can win by only vote in each state he won in 2016 and Trump still remains president.

TTR you got the 2001 analogy wrong. It's the progressives who are the HAL computer that has gone off the deep end to save the mission.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

" Blogger Inga said...
Why are you idiots addressing me? I haven’t commented on this stupid thread. I’m not wasting my precious time on you people"

Laugh out loud stupid. Sorry, I generally eschew the ad hominem but this was hilarious. I'm not wasting my precious time on you people but I'm reading every word you write. OK, then.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Speaking of stupid idiots, boring and Trump, this demented "Trump Derangement Syndrome" tag has got to go. Ever noticed how it never caught on in the popular culture? Yeah, me too. That's because it's execrable nonsense.
The Toothless Revolutionary praise the wisdom of a popular culture that has embraced McCarthyism, anti-Semitism, anti-intellectualism, sexism, and bigotry of all sorts!

buwaya said...

Bone-smashing in "2001" was a step up in technology, about which the film made an obvious point.

My daughter attended a SpaceX launch at Vandenberg, which was an occasion for a party, with dancing. Thats the analogy to the ape-frenzy in "2001". This stuff is fun. Ape like.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Was that the best you could come up with in attempting to make a point, Feeble Lewis Wetzel? You hate popular opinion so obviously you hate democracy, too. We know that about your tribe. The only question then becomes - whom to restrict it to? Whom to lock out of the franchise? And that of course is a constant squabble because no one will ever agree on whom to designate as "better" or "worse". So you've got your work cut out for you - especially given how incompetent we knew that you already were at getting anything done to begin with.

Birkel said...

So now democracy is TTR's rant?

So TTR admits he prefers rule by mob. And wants people to disarm.

What did those Founding Fathers write about democracy when they wrote The Federalist Papers?

Bon chance!

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

So now aristocracy is Birkel's rant?

So Birkel admits that he prefers rule by elites. And wants mass weapons proliferation to turn people into walking soldiers?

Did he think those Founders wanted less democracy than the monarchists and serfs they broke from? Is that what Jefferson said? Or was the Declaration's drafter not good enough for him on capturing what the Revolution was actually about?

Bon chance!

narciso said...

they had read the history of Athens and Rome knew how democracy has degenerated into oligarchy and dictatorship the council of 30 on one side, the triumvirates that led Octavian taking the name augustus.

Rusty said...

"A republic. If you can keep it."
ritmo is why we can't have nice things.

Craig Howard said...

Just imagine what the Althouse commentariat would have said, if Barack Obama or Eric Holder had said, "I like taking away the guns first. We can do due process second."

Ah, the new rules are working. Those on the left are becoming whataboutists, too.

stevew said...

"Despite what many are saying" is such a pussified phrase, right up there with "There are those that say" and "Some say".

-sw

BUMBLE BEE said...

Professor, your trolls being carpet bombed by the best commentariat in my favorites list has really made my day. May I suggest a hashtag #RaucousDesperation?

Temujin said...

I was going to comment but this thing tanked so quickly it became hard to remember what the article was actually about. Looking back at it, yes, Althouse, you are correct. What seems so obvious to the man/woman/zir on the street comes across as intellectual deep diving in our media. It used to be funny. Now its sad and very boring. Which is why the former news sources are now viewed as entertainment that require fact checkers who require further fact checkers.
I'm just wondering how long the media can continue to be breathless about everything. It's got to be tiring for them. I know it's long past tiring for me.

Oh, and Chuck, Holder and Obama had the best of both worlds. They talked about taking away guns while simultaneously distributing them enmasse. https://sharylattkisson.com/reports/news/fastandfurious/. Nice work if you can get it.

Robert said...

How stupid and incompetent does a politician have to be to garner millions of more votes than her opponent and then lose the election in the Electoral College? And then send out millions of lickspittles for years to continually remind everyone of how stupid and incompetent she was?

Mark said...

Fortunately Inga showed up to disprove that the noxious Unknown is not Inga.

Even Inga is not Inga. And I've never understood why some started calling 2.0, "Inga," because the two sound nothing alike.

Unknown said...

Bias reminder: Julian Zelizer is an on-record Dem Party donor.

Anonymous said...

A national press establishment focused on (lying about) substance rather than guff is how we got Obama. I'm not looking forward to a return to that anytime soon.

Yes, it's tiresome -- but these have been some of the most productive months for substantive conservative progress since at least 1989.

John henry said...

Mark, Inga is not a name, it's an an acronym. Stands for insanely noisy giant asshat

John Henry

Paco Wové said...

This particular "Unknown" isn't any version of Inga. It's a Hillarybot that first posted here in 2015, slagging on Bernie and what an awful person he was compared to the sainted Hillary.

Dan Hossley said...

Trump encourages the media to trivialize itself so they will have spent all credibility when the Democrats attempt to impeach him. Nixon never would have resigned if the people were too busy laughing at ABC, NBC and CBS.

Sam L. said...

There is no "serious" news in the media. Seriously weird news, yes. +1 for Dan Hossley.

Jose_K said...

He failed three times this week:
The faux pas with "due process", preventive relief does not require a hearing but he had to be clearer
The huge mistake with tariff . Less bad than Obama or Bush but huge mistake
And praising the leader for life in China. it was that way until FDR but still bad move

Birkel said...

In which Jose K take the media spin and re-vomits it here.

No baby birds here, Jose.

Micha Elyi said...

I laugh at the Trump fanatics who angrily insist that California's vote was all illegals. California delivered the largest number of votes for Trump than any other state (you can look it up). I guess that makes Trump the stooge of the millions of illegals in the USA, eh? That would explain Trump's slow-walking his repeated campaign promise of mass deportation of illegals. (By the way, has Mexico paid any cash for Trump's "big, beautiful wall" yet? I don't see it!)

Hah ha.

Consider this: if Trump had won the popular vote by millions instead of coming up short by that unprecedented amount but old Mrs. Clinton had been installed as President by the elites of the Electoral College, how would these hard-core Trumpists be behaving today?

Also reflect on what Trump's yuuge™ popular vote loss signaled. Trump's support is lazy and scarce. Remember, had just one in twenty Trump voters simply brought one more voter for Trump to the polls, Trump would have been elected President by a popular vote margin of millions of votes. That would have given Trump a clear popular mandate for action, clout with the Congress, and cowed the Democrats. No mad Pussy Hatters marching in Washington, no 'Resistance', no Antifa mobs. Instead, Trump's first 100 days would probably have been a victory march of legislation such as Obamacare repeal, full funding for border integrity--including the Trump Memorial Wall, tax reform, and spending reform.

You lost the popular vote bigly, Trumpists, and now you're paying the political price for your failure. You can continue to live in denial or get off your couch-cushioned Trumpotato bums and mobilize to avoid repeating your failure in 2018.