"Its very first paragraph recites that it is against the law for foreign nationals to spend money to influence US elections, or for agents of foreign countries to engage in political activities without registering. But no one is charged with these crimes. Instead, the indictment is devoted mostly to charging a 'conspiracy to defraud the United States.' Normally, that would refer to defrauding the U.S. out of, say, $10,000 in Medicare benefits. Its application to the 2016 election seems dubious. Beyond that, the indictment charges relatively minor offenses: bank fraud (opening accounts in false names) and identity theft.... The indictment says nothing about how effective the Russians’ efforts were, but their magnitude was rather small. At the height of the campaign in September 2016, the campaign’s budget was only $1,250,000 per month. Compare that with the $100 million that Jeb Bush spent, or the $1.2 billion that Hillary Clinton reportedly ran through."
Writes John Hinderaker.
I note that
the indictment speaks of the "ORGANIZATION" with its different departments including a graphics department and that "Defendants and their co-conspirators issued or received guidance on: ratios of text, graphics, and video to use in posts...." Could someone point to examples of these graphics? I'm interested in graphics and how graphics might leap over our defenses and hit us in some mysterious emotional place, but what graphics did the Russians come up with? Wasn't it just crap like
this:
Posts
141 comments:
Odd, lame, take your pick.
The Mueller "investigation" is turning into a CYA operation: it lacked any pretense that an actual crime had been committed, as required by the special counsel statute, therefore they now have to make something up--anything.
The dog that didn't bark is the most important part of the indictment.
"It is against the law for foreign nationals to spend money to influence US elections, or for agents of foreign countries to engage in political activities without registering."
Is the indictment of Christopher Steele coming anytime soon?
Johnny Cochran is already gearing up: if the glove don't fit, acquit the Brit.
By this indictment, Mueller advances the very "discord in the U.S. political system" that he charges other with. The question is whether he is a dupe or a collaborator.
The indictment, for lack of a better term, is a joke.
So a buncha Russians are playing on the internet during election season?
No hacking of DNC e-mails?
No hacking of Podesta e-mails?
No voter fraud?
No hacking of voting machines?
No bribery?
And Seth Rich is still dead.
Great job, Mueller!
This is the equivalent of indicting a ham sandwich or - in this case- a cheese blintz with extra borscht.
It's the Life of Brian scene where the Centurions announce "we found this spoon, sir!"
Mueller found a spoon.
"Mueller found a spoon."
Whatever you do, WHATEVER YOU DO, don't ever ask for another yard sign again!!
Mueller Indictment Snippet: "A volunteer for the Trump campaign in New York...agreed to provide signs" for a Trump rally to a Russian "posing as a US grassroots activist."
I also have it on good authority that when handing out a Trump sign, a random Trump campaign volunteer in AnyTown USA also jaywalked...in a "Russian-y" sort of way.
WAT!!
"The Mueller "investigation" is turning into a CYA operation"
It was never anything but. $145 million in bribes from Russian oligarchs was going to require more than a little Hillarysplainin'.
Mueller, Klink & Schultz, S.C.
What a hoot! I suppose it wasn't paid-for influence when Bill Clinton granted Most Favored Nation status to China right after his inauguration.
The purpose of this indictment appears to be, "Look we found some crimes!!" to justify the many millions of dollars and all of the publicity. Whether those crimes amount to anything (remember, Russians living in the USA have First Amendment rights) seems to be beside the point.
It occurs to me that a special prosecutor with genuine integrity would announce that he/she that has found nothing and is shutting down the investigation if they found nothing. Mueller is busying worrying about process crimes and this dubious indictment.
I'm so sick of fake news. Reuters first article said the indictment was for the Russians interfering to help Trump. Now when I go back to it the headline and first paragraph has been stealth edited to remove the language about helping Trump.
Let he who has never disparaged Hillary Clinton cast the first stone.
Mike: "Russians living in the USA have First Amendment rights) seems to be beside the point."
The Russians live in Russia.
Therefore, there will never be a trial so Mueller will not even have to prove his charges are real.
Thus, the Indictment itself is the political statement Mueller delivered so the dems could continue, as they already have, to say that the spying on Trump and team was completely justified.
This entire operation is designed to whitewash dem crimes and de-legitimize Trumps election.
Period.
After more than a year and many millions of dollars
Rod Rosenstein says, "This is a reminder that things on the internet are not always what they appear to be."
The Russians live in Russia.
Therefore, there will never be a trial so Mueller will not even have to prove his charges are real.
That won't preclude the Russian government from hiring some U.S. lawyers to file all sorts of motions that will drag Mueller into court.
I also have it on good authority that when handing out a Trump sign, a random Trump campaign volunteer in AnyTown USA also jaywalked...in a "Russian-y" sort of way.
Maybe he was rushin' to get to an appointment on time.
Mueller will eventually refer the matter to Congress for Trump's Impeachment for obstruction based on firing Comey. There's no law violation in the firing, but that doesn't matter that it's phony, it's for the non-stop media onslaught to weaken Trump.
It will never end.
Millions spent to produce a tiny bit of tiny mouse flatulence.
AND, it won't preclude the Russian government from indicting some Americans in Russia on some stupid made-up charges.
I had been wondering what happened to Inspector Clousseau ... He must have been all this time at FBI training academy.
Just in time for the FBI to admit they aren’t doing their actual job and 17 kids got shot for it.
This couldn’t have been worse for the FBI and Mueller.
Could this be a feint at the OIG Horowitz to tone down his report? Mueller can crank it up again.
More bullshit to keep the lie alive.
Mueller and his team of ex-Clinton hacks should go to Russia without backup and try and SWAT Putin and his family with a no-knock early morning raid. Do a frisk of his wife in bed when she s in her underwear, like they did to Manafort's wife.
So... we’re prosecuting people for putting ideas on the Internet where people can read them?
George Soros and Igna must be trembling in their pussyhats.
"Washington politicians tend to view everything through an insider lens.
Most don't see elections as organic movements within populations of millions, but as dueling contests of "whip-smart" organizers who know how to get the cattle to vote the right way. If someone wins an election, the inevitable Beltway conclusion is that the winner had better puppeteers." – Matt Taibbi
Mueller's comin' for ya, Igna! He always gets his troll!
no-knock early morning raid
It worked in Wisconsin.
Do a frisk of his wife in bed when she s in her underwear, like they did to Manafort's wife.
You're kidding. That's so third-world.
My rule: you never do things right the first time. You learn by trial and error. By that rule, the worrisome issue is that bad actors can learn over time and become more effective. So what is the administration proposing to do about that prospect.
..... " it is against the law for foreign nationals to spend money to influence US elections, or for agents of foreign countries to engage in political activities without registering."
Oh really? I sure see a lot on immigrants, both legal and illegal, doing the above with impunity.
And what about B. Hussein O. sending campaign operatives to Israel to assist in the campaign to defeat Bibi. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Aren’t all of the defendants living in Russia? Let’s have a show trial and convict them in abstentia.
Joke.
So what is the administration proposing to do about that prospect.
Cut up China, Britain, Australia, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Iran, ISIS's credit cards?
Perhaps reclassify the NYT as a foreign intelligence asset under Mexican control?
It's Congress's job to 'fix' this, not Trump's. Why do people think we live in a dictatorship?
After reading the indictment, it is thin legally since it is unclear how Russians (or any other foreign nationals) cond defraud the US. The bank fraud charges are colorable since it involves from companies. One is also struck by how small potatoes it is. The indictment makes a big stink about these clowns spending $1.2 million in September, and a lesser amount in other months, Sounds bad, except Hillary spent $1.2 billion on the campaign, Trump about $300 million, Jeb! about $150 million and so on. even if they spent a total of $10 million, that is peanuts (or crumbs, to use a term Pelosi can understand). Also, there is less than zero chance we are arresting any of the clowns named. That means the indictment is likely to never be tested.
This indictment is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
Johnnie Cochrane has been dead for 13 years.
Even so, that graphic makes me want to vote for Putin, against my better judgment.
Since Mueller's job was to investigate Russian collusion, the DOJ should tell Mueller thanks for the indictments and we'll have this case of identity theft assigned to our newest intern. Pack up your things and enjoy retirement.
Porky Pig indicted, made into sandwich.
-6W
Well, all I can say is that it’s lucky for Barack Obama that it isn’t illegal for foreigners to meddle in Israeli elections.
Or is it?
I thought the indictments clever. We've known now for a few weeks that the investigation as related to collusion was DOA. Sure, most of us knew long ago because the Dossier was stupid from the start and there was no evidence to support it, but now there is evidence of how the Dossier was created and used to lead us to a pointless investigation. So now you are Mueller, and maybe you weren't in on it from the beginning, or maybe you were but you still have plausible deniability. What do you do to explain to the American people why you took a pay check for over a year? You indict some Russians may actually have violated some crime. I don't think it is worth my taxpaying dollars, but YMMV.
Identity theft: Russians, Keyser Söze suspected.
-6W
There's something going on. The indictment is too stupid.
Moping with intent to creep, G Gordon Liddy used to name a made-up crime indictment.
I have read that one of the things that has come out — and is being assiduously buried — is that Sanders accepted foreign money. Can anyone confirm?
Russians indicted: fake pictures on Tinder.
-6W
Six Words "contributions": whyku
These are in the category of the charges against the Egyptian filmmaker. I always thought that was a valid prosecution and think this is too. If it doesn’t live up to the cable news hype, that’s not a rule of law problem. I’d say that’s the system working. Isn’t this the style of boring government that Althouse prefers?
This is just the first part of a larger investigation very carefully document with more to come.
We were at LAX picking up a relative this afternoon.
There was a kind of looney looking guy holding up a sign in the baggage area with a bunch of stuff about Putin and DoJ and FBI.
I was about to ask him if he was Putin's driver but thought better of it.
rhhardin: There's something going on. The indictment is too stupid.
I had the same thought.
But maybe I just don't want to believe that our governing caste is that far gone into Clown World.
Bigger fish: need bigger frying pan.
-6W
DAVID FRENCH said ....
I’m alarmed by the Russian actions. The indictment alleges a long-running effort (one that included identity theft in the United States) to undermine America’s already-weak public trust and — ultimately — to take sides in an American political context. Moreover, this is but one aspect of the overall investigation into Russian disruption operations. The social media program isn’t necessarily related to Wikileaks and the email hacks, and it’s far from certain the indictment encompasses the whole even of Russian social media efforts.
But what’s alleged is bad enough. The Russians sought to generate street protests, suppress voter turnout, and spread disinformation.
Ben Sasse said ...
Russia is not unaware of our own distrust of each other. Russia is not unaware of our own increasing self-doubt about our shared values. Russia is today very self-consciously working to further erode confidence in our self-government by pulling at the threads of our public and civic life.
Left Bank
Are you referring to the Egyptian filmmaker who made the anti-Muslim movie that supposedly sparked the Bengazhi attacks? My recollection is that he was jailed for a probation violation.
Is this really something that rises to the level of appointing a special prosecutor? It seems like pretty standard FBI counter intelligence stuff.
A) The FBI didn't know about this stuff until Mueller uncovered it, another FBI fail.
B) The FBI knew about it and decided it was a reason to wiretap a Presidential candidate/campaign, which in light of how they went out of their way to exonerate Hillary, is at least as bad as what these Russians were up to...allegedly.
In an internetted world, how do you prevent a foreign entity (how do you even tell it is a foreign entity?) from purchasing "issue" advertising, or even outright political advertising, on US-targeted internet platforms?
Consider the political content of Superbowl commercials as a model.
BelovedCommenterABT: Nice of you to be filling in for Chuck in his absence.
David French and Ben Sasse, lol.
Better quality spin effort than r/V's (pathetic), or Left Bank's (crazy). You win this heat.
After more than a year and many millions of dollars
Rod Rosenstein says, "This is a reminder that things on the internet are not always what they appear to be."
That one gave me a belly laugh too.
And someone posted on an earlier thread: "In other news, Mueller has indicted 19 Nigerian Princes!".
Ben Sasse is a fool.
"Russia is today very self-consciously working to further erode confidence in our self-government by pulling at the threads of our public and civic life."
This is already the explicit policy of your entire K-12 and university systems.
It is, in fact, their entire raison d'etre. This is the ethic forced down the throats of every aspiring teacher in every school of education in the country.
That's a major chunk of your economy.
Whatever the Russians want to contribute to that is a grain of sand in the dump truck.
So now were are turning our noses up at rock-ribbed Republicans? Seems the Russians have been more successful than even they could have imagined.
"So now were are turning our noses up at rock-ribbed Republicans?"
Far be it for me to tell you whom to turn your noses up at, but take some advice from the rock ribbed Bible -
(Matthew 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
ABM: So now were are turning our noses up at rock-ribbed Republicans?
If by "now", you mean "since Angle-Dyne showed up here", then, yeah.
As for the people here who are Republicans, guess you missed the whole "cuckservative", die-GOPe-die stuff, eh?
Any recent head injuries? Concussion that you ought to have looked at? You shouldn't ignore those things.
So, some Russians, in Russia, are indicted on charges that 100's of thousands illegal aliens (mostly Mexican nationals) have been doing every day of every year for decades.
After the Manafort no-knock raid it became clear Mueller's investigation template was based on the oh so successful WI John Doe investigation.
What the Russians are supposed to have done is pretty much of a piece with what domestic political actors are doing all the time. If your democracy can't handle that, you're screwed whether foreigners take a hand or not.
Admittedly, we don't know many details, but it's hard to take these indictments seriously in light of what has gone on in the recent past.
"Obama Accepting Untraceable Donations
By Matthew Mosk
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 29, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign is allowing donors to use largely untraceable prepaid credit cards that could potentially be used to evade limits on how much an individual is legally allowed to give or to mask a contributor's identity, campaign officials confirmed.
The Obama campaign has shattered presidential fundraising records, in part by capitalizing on the ease of online giving. Of the $150 million the senator from Illinois raised in September, nearly $100 million came in over the Internet."
From The Hill, 10/09/2012:
"In September, the Obama campaign got 1.8 million donations from small contributors who did not break the $200 threshold requiring that their information be reported to the Federal Election Commission. They gave the campaign 98 percent of the $181 million it raised that month, a figure vastly higher than its take in any previous month.
Is the Obama campaign financing itself through foreign money funneled in through a website owned by a private businessman, living in China, that uses the name Obama.com?
These questions arise because the Obama campaign, unlike Romney’s or, for that matter, Hillary Clinton’s in 2008, refuses to ask donors for their CVV number (the number on your credit card that one is often asked for after giving one’s name and expiration date). The CVV is designed to assure that the donor is actually physically holding the card."
Even the Norwegian government donated "between 5 and 10 million dollars" to the Clintons' "double-wide" down in Little Rock, and I would guess that was not the only payment into American politics made by the State and other more or less Norwegian entities such as Statoil doing business with and in the U.S.
This “indictment” is complete b.s. it was done to provide cover for all those involved in this collusion hoax. “See, there really was collusion,” they can say as they tiptoe out of the room then beating a hasty exit before the real story of collusion drops the guillotine blade on their necks.
Trump is clearly exonerated. But I pray he doesn’t go soft with this acquittal. People must pay for their lies and crimes. John Brennan should be first in line. Adam Schiff needs to be right behind him, and then start lining up media persons, lots of them. And while we’re on the subject of foreign interference in our elections, Chris Steele must be extradited.
Angle-Dyne, Angelic Buzzard said...
guess you missed the whole "cuckservative", die-GOPe-die stuff
Verily, these are dark days on the right. Once men-of-character-matters walked the hallowed halls of the Republican base but now it is all turned to dust, and hookers. Never forget the hookers.
There's something going on. The indictment is too stupid.
It's a trap!
Does the name Mossadegh remind anyone of anything?
"rhhardin: There's something going on. The indictment is too stupid."
I think they've been overtaken by events. And so they issue an indictment clearing Trump - and everyone else. Rosenstein made that clear. There were NO witting US actors assisting the Russians. None. Not Manafort, not Flynn, not Trump, not Hillary, not Bill, not Stormy Daniels. None. And, said Rosenstein, this prosecution is merely alerting the American people to the fact that things on the Internet are not always as they seem. Who knew?
There are Nigerian princes. There are used car salesmen. There are Russian troll farmers. There are political ads. NBC is promoting the wonderful life of the North Koreans amid crashing ratings. Hollywood said Trump was immoral. The Democrats said the tax bill would raise taxes. The NFL had a great year in 2017. If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. It's all out there. A fool and his mind are soon parted. So be careful. Remember - fake news wants your click.
Hillary Clinton is still not president.
AIPAC?
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
So now were are turning our noses up at rock-ribbed Republicans? Seems the Russians have been more successful than even they could have imagined.
The argument is that anyone who fails to support the uniparty designates in the Republican Party is supporting Russia.
You can’t make a parody this stupid.
"dust, and hookers"
Are reality.
"Character" is fantasy.
AIPAC?
AIPAC goes both ways, BTW.
ABM @7:53:
I'm serious about the concussion thing.
Unless you're just pulling a shift for Inga as well as Chuck, in which case, carry on.
Of all the problems are country faces (high murder rates, high debt, stagnant wages, racial tensions, mass shootings), I put Russian trolls on the internet about No. 129 on the list.
" Never forget the hookers."
Peeing on Obama's bed.
The Left is dying.
They defrauded us of better possible memes?
rhhardin said...
There's something going on. The indictment is too stupid.
The indictment needs to include two words. Russians. Elections.
As you can see that is good enough for the leftists here. The investigation can carry on.
And as long as the investigation carries on Rosenstein is protected politically.
The whole ballgame right now is keeping Rosenstein in charge and keeping a second special prosecutor from doing a real investigation. One that isn’t the obvious whitewash Mueller is doing.
ARM: "Once men-of-character-matters ..."
We are supposed to forget that you and your pals called everyone one of those folks nazi's, murderers of old folks and children and women haters trying to establish a theocracy.
But today is a new day and new talking points require a revised history, which began anew this morning.
Good luck with your brand new contradictory and incoherent talking points.
You're going to need them.
Did someone mention the budget deficit? ................... No. I guess not.
The Left is dying.
2/16/18, 8:03 PM
I hope this is true. They are certainly morally and intellectually spent.
However,the dying can make quite a mess before they check out.
So far this is the least intimidating conspiracy I have ever imagined showing up in a courtroom. Also it is so remote from effect as to make me think it is done for show. They haven't got any of these people, so the evidence won't actually be disclosed and tested in court, which is one heck of a red flag. Fine, the grand jury heard Mueller's team's claims and indicted the bowls of borscht, but to what purpose?
What about the claims about hacking voter databases, the DNC and so forth?
As for foreign nationals spending money to influence a US election, what about all the persons illegally present in the US who are foreign nationals and who have been advocating for various immigration proposals, for candidates who support them, and for their issues? f that law were to be taken seriously and enforced, wouldn't we have a million people under indictment?
Should any of our law enforcement agencies actually be wasting their time on these types of offenses, many of which occurred long before the 2016 election? Some of this is about alleged improper disclosures on visa apps?
Also I note that the Project Lakhta, with the cited monthly budget by Sept 2016, was carrying out basically propaganda activities in multiple countries, including in Russia itself. To read a specific action cited, on May 29th a US person was paid to stand in front of the WH with a sign "Happy 55th Birthday, Dear Boss". Which the indictment seems to believe was referring to this Prigozhin guy. My God, one can see the foundations of democracy shaking under the tread of two, three, four selfie-taking jackbooted Russian thugs. What a narrow escape we had!
In this indictment they are listing people who never even got a visa to get to the US. The one guy applied for his visa in 2014.
Well, I read through the whole indictment, and to me it looks like they were using the election and political activity as a means of identity theft/bank theft. Both Bernie Sanders and Trump were receiving large numbers of small-dollar donations, and well-established political pages could have links sending persons to political donation sites which might facilitate grabbing the data entered.
That's my guess, anyway. It seems to be the banks which detected it.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Did someone mention the budget deficit
Your sudden concern about it is touching.
Your usual MO ("let's change the subject, because I don't like the way this thread is going!") is pretty predictable at this point.
ARM: "Did someone mention the budget deficit?"
Yes.
For 8 years.
We were informed by our lefty "betters" that was a racist thing to do.
Not gonna make that mistake again.
Plus, we cant mention Chicago, golf, and about 17,000 other innocuous things lest the charge be leveled again.
Thank you Mueller!
For keeping America safe from unauthorized yard signs, nasty Facebook posts, and process crimes.
"Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, the evidence in this case will clearly and undisputably show that the 13 defendents seated at that table over there, used personal computers and laptops to make inflamatory and caustic comments in the discussion sections of many major news and opinion websites, with the intent to influence thinking and thereby sway the election of the President of the United States."
I think "The Russians" for the Left, have become the equivalent of "The Jews" for White Nationalists.
Did someone say "foreign interference in our election"?
Is that why Ukraine, who worjed with Hillarys minions, apologized to Trump early in his Presidency?
Does the phrase "no controlling legal authority" ring a bell?
In defense of our lefties, thats all old news and long forgotten.
Why, those little remembrances are almost as old as our Constitution! Like, a hundred years or something!
Blogger Earnest Prole said...
There's something going on. The indictment is too stupid.
It's a trap!
2/16/18, 7:54 PM
Indeed! As I have posted elsewhere:
Another trap is sprung and the targets still don't realize what's happened. Mueller's writ was to investigate Trump/Russia collusion...or anything else he turned up. These indictments set the precedent for wandering off the strict Russia/Trump reservation. If the Dems don't scream bloody murder about this they will have absolutely no justification for complaint if he just happens to lock up a few (all?) of them.
Mike Smith at 5:41 PM
It occurs to me that a special prosecutor with genuine integrity would announce that he/she that has found nothing and is shutting down the investigation if they found nothing. Mueller is busying worrying about process crimes and this dubious indictment.
Robert "The FBI Whitewasher" Mueller is NOT a man of integrity.
If he were a man of integrity, he would have refused the appointment, saying that he could not be impartial -- or be perceived to be impartial -- about the FBI's role in the situation. And Mueller was well informed about the FBI's role in the situation.
From the beginning, Mueller has had three top goals:
1) Whitewash the FBI.
2) Whitewash his BFF "Crazy Comey the Leaker".
3) Imprison a scapegoat (someone like Scooter Libby) to show that the FBI's "investigation" was valid and worthwhile.
Mueller never has cared a rat's ass that a special counsel is supposed to be perceived by the public as investigating a major controversy in a non-partisan, fair manner.
Mueller does not care a rat's ass that he has conducted himself in a manner that will cause half the population to reject his "investigation" as a whitewash and as a partisan witch-hunt.
FTR the Putin gang did not want the Obama/Clinton gang to run the new World Government. Putin being a Nationalist and Orthodox Christian actually wants to guard his nation from the International Communists hiding inside a UN Global Warming Treaty Authority under CIA control.
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious blogging fluidity.
It would be a hilarious circus if the Russian Government would hire US lawyers (e.g. Dershowitz) to defend all the Russians in a trial here in the USA.
The prosecution would be a farce.
The US Government would be humiliated, and the Russian Government would have the last laugh.
I would be cheering for the Russians.
I think the real fun is with the DNC servers. They are trying really hard to make sure no one gets into them. Here’s a Russian suing buzzfeed for slander I think and the DNC servers are featured.
Two people who never, ever will be indicted by Robert "The FBI Whitewasher" Mueller:
1) "Crazy Comey the Leaker"
2) Christopher Steele
It’s interesting they spent another $400 billion and between Apple and a few others repatriating, that sum sound be at least $400 billion.
Why would the legal theory underlying this indictment apply only to Russians or other foreigners? Seems to me it could also open up prosecution of tricksters or purveyors of "fake news" who are American citizens. What am I missing?
Dangerous territory.
So now were are turning our noses up at rock-ribbed Republicans? Seems the Russians have been more successful than even they could have imagined.
It has very little to do with Sasse, whom I have never heard of, but everything to do with you.
To wit: if Sasse spoke ill of the Democratic party, you'd be one of the first to dismiss and excoriate him.
But he is saying something about Trump. Ergo, instantly, he is one of the very bedrocks of our culture and Constitution. One can even hear the tone you seek, of Bald Eagles screeching, The Star Spangled Banner playing the background, and flags waving at the very name of What's his name...whom you would stab in the back in a moment if he came up with even a hint of evidence of Hillary/Obama collusion
We've seen this a lot in Democrats. We call it 'The McCain Syndrome'.
”I think the real fun is with the DNC servers. They are trying really hard to make sure no one gets into them. Here’s a Russian suing buzzfeed for slander I think and the DNC servers are featured.”
Why didn’t Mueller grab them his first day on the job?
I don’t have a problem with Mueller’s actions here. He was hired to investigate Russian election meddling and if this is all there is, this is all there is.
Serious question: is Unavision acting illegally when they try to influence American politics?
Does this mean DACA dreamers could be in Mueller's crosshair next?
Hillary drafts illegal 'Dreamers' to get immigrants to vote
$1.2 billion that Hillary Clinton
That tells us why this is happening. She was supposed to land the throne, and all her paybacks and rewards to her donors and loyalists was a sure thing.
Someone must pay. She's the one who belongs in prison.
LOL - budget deficit. I wonder what percentage of the budget is allotted to this obscene Hillary Clinton payback witch hunt charade?
"Did someone mention the budget deficit? ................... No. I guess not."
Thats been covered. You must be a newbie to AA? If so try not to engage with the bomb throwers. They don't have much in the way of anything to add to the conversation and no principled arguments to add to the discussion.
During the campaign I put an empty chair on my front lawn. Will that come back to bite me?
They defrauded us of better possible memes?
The Mueller indictments makes the FBI mistakes in the Florida school shooting look much worse. Mueller spent millions going after amateur meme makers, while Cruz plotted mayhem on line.
I just tweeted my best tweet ever... dial M for Mueller... it's all downhill from now on.
Nice work Quayle. “Precious blog fluidity” indeed.
The Left Then:
"Impeach that treasonous Trump for colluding with Putin to steal the election!"
The Left Now:
"Indict 13 Russian internet trolls for misleading Facebook accounts!"
The indictments will NEVER be challenged. Impossible to know if even these very thin, very sketchy indictments are based on any facts at all. In short, nothing but lies. Lots of great observations in all the comments here. How about the fact that no indictments for hacking the DNC. An accusation I have yet to see anyone try to claim there are any facts to corroborate the accusation. Hell, the DNC refused the govt access to investigate.
I watched MSNBC for 15 minutes, and they ran a dozen clips of President Trump stating that the Russian investigation was a hoax, omitting of course the part where President Trump states that the Trump campaign colluding with Russia is a hoax. The leftist media has gone from corrupt, to just stupid ranting and drool running down their chin. A last call drunk has more credibility.
Original Mike said...
I don’t have a problem with Mueller’s actions here. He was hired to investigate Russian election meddling and if this is all there is, this is all there is.
All that needs explanation is why a special counsel was required? The special counsel exists because the FBI and DOJ are compromised and unable to carryout their jobs. If that is true, President Trump is proven right in his criticizing. The left keeps eating their own tail.
Defrauded of a Trump-Russia case maybe.
Just think of all the excellent, informative memes we could have had if it weren't for those meddling Russians.
The Russians were a Donald Segretti style campaign of ratfucking the US government. The spent money on promoting long-shot candidates and cantankerous issues. They even funded anti-Trump rallies after the election.
The Russians were a Donald Segretti style campaign of ratfucking the US government.
And part of that dirty tricks operation by the Russians involved the disinformation produced by them for the Steele dossier, and which was paid for by the FBI and Hillary campaign.
Verily, these are dark days on the right. Once men-of-character-matters walked the hallowed halls of the Republican base but now it is all turned to dust, and hookers. Never forget the hookers.
I can't wait until 2032 or so when the democrats and the MSM will all be talking about how evil the current Republican candidate is (and how racist, homophobic, sexist and stupid he is) and why couldn't he be more like that nice man Trump.
What did the Russians do to us that Obama didn't do to Israel?
Mark,
I'd come down either way on the Steele dossier, either it was just more Russian disinformation or it was actually made up by Sidney Blumenthal's private intelligence network and filtered through Steele.
Gahrie,
If you want to compare apples to apples, what the US did to help topple the Russian-friendly government of the Ukraine was much worse than what they have been charged with here.
This is what humiliation looks like.
MaxedOutMama,
That part about the politics simply being a front for financial crimes occurred to me as I was reading the indictment, too. In fact, I would think this was likely to be the case since the operation as a political tool seems ridiculous but for the outsized reaction the Left took it to after the election. Indeed, that sudden switch over to anti-Trump propaganda after the election supports the assertion that the operation was designed to bring in money from politically active donors all along.
Original Mike asked....
Why didn’t Mueller grab them [the DNC servers, Y.W. added] his first day on the job?
Simple- he already knew that the e-mails weren't hacked- it is the only explanation that makes any sense whatsoever.
Why grab the servers when a copy of their hard drive is simpler and yields tha same information?
Occam is asking.
"Is the indictment of Christopher Steele coming anytime soon?"
My thoughts exactly. Esp after it came out recently that Steele was apparently quite worried that Trump me get win. And his Dossier was a good part of the Dems' October Surprise. As for knowing that Steele was willing to do whatever was necessary to defeat Trump - that apparently came from ADAG Bruce Ohr, who was demoted last year, likely after it became evident that he had far too much involvement with Fusion GPS and Steele (and may have brought them together). Latest though is the revelation that he failed to disclose to the DoJ in his ethics disclosure that his wife was working for Fusion as their Russian expert. Bad enough that he previously had her listed as a consultant w/o mentioning her expertise or whom she was consulting for. Worse when she was working for a company whose Dossier was used to acquire a FISA warrant - that he had involvement with. Theoretically, legally, he could be liable for a fine and/or jail time. Definitely more criminal than what Flynn, etc did. And, maybe part of why Flynn's sentencing has been postponed.
The absurdity of these indictments is not only that they involve foreigners residing in foreign countries, who aren't about to be extradited to stand trial here, but that proof in court of Russian govt involvement would be almost impossible. It is one thing for the CIA to tell the DoJ or the President that there were ties, but any sort of attempted proof would likely be inadmissible as involving multiple layers of hearsay.
I'm looking through the actual indictment, and there are indeed some very serious allegations.
For example: "on or about May 29, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators, through an ORGANIZATION-controlled social media account, arranged for a real U.S. person to stand in front of the White House in the District of Columbia under false pretenses to hold a sign that read “Happy 55th Birthday Dear Boss.” [One of the Russian conspirators has a birthday of June 1.] (Count 1, paragraph 12-b).
I'm not sure that the US political system is strong enough to withstand this kind of nefarious activity.
Rob Reiner was on Twitter talking about Treason after this came out. He says that if Trump doesn't react against Russia, it's TREASON. He used all caps.
The point has been made previously, but what would the case be if it was Americans making these political ‘whatever’s’ (it really isn’t clear what these people actually did that could influence people) ?
I can’t see how Twitter, Facebook or yard signs or whatever can influence people enough to change a vote from Hillary to Trump or visa versa: generally, because of the very nature of the social media, and our increasingly (!?) short attention spans we find stuff which reinforces our own beliefs and ignore anything to the contrary.
Which brings up a point - perhaps the mainstream media should be worried: the implication is that Russians tapped social media and influenced people to the point they voted based on that media, and did not use mainstream media to get their information. Or was mainstream media tapped by the Russians, too?
What infuriates liberals is that Wikileaks exposed their leaders for what they are. There is no forgiving that. If the Russians did it or not, it doesn’t matter to me. The truth is the truth.
I agree with Achilles. The indictment saves enough face with the Dem base, but it might be enough to prevent a second prosecutor to look into FBI corruption.
I'm for a second prosecutor to investigate Comey's interference with Hillary's campaign. She thinks a crime was committed, and perhaps that is what needs to be investigated.
Lem above (and others no doubt) make this point, but I'm interested in a serious reply from someone with legal knowledge. The WaPo front page highlights four activities as "key allegations" (presumably allegations of criminal activity), encouraging minority groups not to vote, placing ads on social media and other sites advocating for Trump and opposing Clinton, using facebook to organize pro-Trump and anti-Hillary rallies, paying an actress to portray Clinton in a prison uniform in a public display.
There can't be any question (can there?) that this activity is perfectly legal if undertaken by an American citizen. So what makes this activity criminal is that it is undertaken by a non-citizen. (There's no reason to think -- is there? -- that there are special rules for Russian non-citizens.)
So, based on the theory of criminality in the indictment, is it a crime for a DACA resident (or any other person who is not a US citizen) to use facebook for political purposes, or (say) to volunteer for a political campaign, or get-out-the-vote effort.
A less serious attorney general might undertake some prosecutions like this just for the political theater amusement value.
arranged for a real U.S. person to stand in front of the White House in the District of Columbia under false pretenses to hold a sign that read “Happy 55th Birthday Dear Boss.”
False pretenses? So, did the guy not really want Dear Boss to be happy? Was it really Boss' 60th birthday instead of his or her 55th? Was it not his or her birthday at all? Did the guy really hate Boss and not consider him or her to be "dear"? Or did he not even have a boss, was he unemployed at the time? Since they've alleged it, what is Mueller's proof that this is false pretenses? And pretense to what end? How does a birthday sign sow discord in the U.S. political process?
So what makes this activity criminal is that it is undertaken by a non-citizen.
Nothing. It does not make the activity criminal. That is, the indictment is subject to a motion to dismiss for failure to state an offense.
Thank you Mark for replying. I understand that the theory of criminality propounded in the indictment has yet to be adjudicated and it is possible (probable?) that courts will agree that 1st amendment protects these activities for non-citizens. I'm just wondering if the theory contained in the indictment would criminalize a lot of activities of pro-Democrat non-citizens. And that gets me to wondering if the theory behind the indictment is a "fringe theory".
"is it a crime for ... any other person who is not a US citizen) to use facebook for political purposes, or (say) to volunteer for a political campaign, or get-out-the-vote effort."
This also makes me wonder if any of the activities of the Mexican government, particularly via its consulates in the United States, would be considered crimes by the same standards.
So, based on the theory of criminality in the indictment, is it a crime for a DACA resident (or any other person who is not a US citizen) to use facebook for political purposes, or (say) to volunteer for a political campaign, or get-out-the-vote effort.
Or be appointed a dem superdelegate.
Or be appointed a dem superdelegate.
2/17/18, 12:27 PM
Talk about the involvement of foreign criminals in our electoral process! It just doesn't get any better than that.
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