From "F.B.I. Was Warned of Florida Suspect’s Desire to Kill but Did Not Act" (NYT).
ADDED: Here's the FBI's statement. Excerpt:
The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting. Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami Field Office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken. We have determined that these protocols were not followed for the information received by the PAL on January 5. The information was not provided to the Miami Field Office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time.
131 comments:
How many pucks? How many people with similar characteristics are they aware of?
"could open up a new avenue of attack for political opponents seeking to discredit the bureau’s work...."
Ya think?
Ever notice there are only two news stories in the world:
1. X happened and thus conservatives are evil.
2. Conservatives are using the fact that Y happened to further their evil cause
Why is it the FBI's responsibility to field this kind of stuff anyway? Aren't there three layers of police forces before it gets to them? Or was he planning on carrying out his attack while crossing state lines?
Republicans pounce.
The fbi guy on tv now is REALLY brave to be out there. If I were a parent of a victim, I would seriously attack him.
If this is not proof that government is incompetent, then I don't know what would qualify.
This is seriously fucked up!
FBI = Baltimore Police. Blow them up and start over again.
And to think of the talking heads admonishing the public to speak up over the last 48 hours. See something, say something.
How utterly sickening this development.
Even more teens are speaking up carrying signs that read The NRA is a Terrorist Organization-- but of course these too will be ignored.
In this case F.B.I. investigators can compare themselves to hockey goalies who fail to show up at the rink because they're busy elsewhere investigating collusion with Russia.
The FBI made a mistake that may have resulted in the death of 17 people. This has to be a political issue? How about just fixing the problem so it doesn't happens again.
Why is this phrased in the style of “Republicans Pounce” headlines? Don’t Democrats think the FBI should follow up on these kind of leads?Perhaps there’s no time when they’re so busy covering for Hillary and Blabbermouth Schultz and entrapping WH staffers.
Seriously, are there some people saying the FBI couldn't do two things at once, that the Russian investigation consumed all possible resources? If true, that would be damning.
-sw
Why is it the FBI's responsibility to field this kind of stuff anyway? Aren't there three layers of police forces before it gets to them? Or was he planning on carrying out his attack while crossing state lines?
Someone contacted the FBI. At the very least it could have been pushed down to the local police force to investigate.
The F.B.I. also knew of one of the brothers who carried out the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing, but did not stop that attack.
The warning came from the Russian government, didn't it?
Even more teens are speaking up carrying signs that read The NRA is a Terrorist Organization-- but of course these too will be ignored.
The same ones eating Tide pods probably. This is so stupid I’m surprised you highlighted it. Wait, you think that’s clever don’t you RV? No NRA member has ever done that kind of crime. The NRA is people like me who don’t want OUR constitutional rights taken away. If you disagree then persuade me that there is a gun law that would prevent what happened in Parkland? Rise above those chanting skulls full of mush and USE your grey matter. What would your magic gun law look like?
It wasn't just the FBI that dropped the ball. The police were called to his house at least 36 times. The school knew he was disturbed. (I'd bet money he was in the severely emotionally disturbed program)
I wonder if the russky indictments were expedited in an attempt to cover for this horrific failure.
IIRC, they were also tipped off about the Orlando shooter by a gun store clerk when he tried to buy body armor and bulk ammo.
"open up a new avenue of attack to discredit the bureau's work"??
WTF is wrong with the NYT- the FBI discredited itself by failing to follow up on the tip. How the f can you read this POS American Pravda Althouse? The NYT beclowns itself everyday.
The warning came from the Russian government, didn't it?
Yep. We warn them of stuff like that, too, when we can. It's common courtesy, even with a geopolitical adversary.
Not defending the FBI, but if local police were called to the kid's house 39 times (holy shit!), maybe the local/state guys should have done more to get this guy committed to a hospital where he might have notten help.
The FBI got one call and blew it. The local authorities dozens and dozens of calls and in-person encounters with the f-ing psycho and blew it.
So I think more appropriate for the Governor of Florida to resign than the head of the FBI.
https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/deputies-called-to-suspected-shooters-home-39-times-over-seven-years/
I first cast blame on this murderous little shithead Cruz. Period. End of story.
As for the FBI and the police, they both dropped the ball.
And that is precisely why it is foolish to rely solely on them.
And that is precisely why it is important to defend yourself.
And if the school had an armed guard or a parent with a carry permit, maybe Cruz coulda been dropped early. Who knows?
But the typical leftist caterwauling about more gun laws has been refuted.
Given the findings of malfeasance in the upper echelons of FBI management it is no wonder that things are falling apart in the field. The operation of the FBiI reflects the effectiveness of its management and we see how much they paid attention to business in 2016. Will anyone lose their job because they failed to followup on warnings? Someone should.
The irony is that when something like this happens there is no discussion of fixing the mental health system which is at least as much, maybe more, to blame than Gun ownership. Even the students at the school knew that the attacker was nuts.
"How about just fixing the problem so it doesn't happens again"
Maybe swap the TSA folks with the FBI folks.
At this point I have more faith in the TSA. And that is crazy.
Pretty much every mass shooting has been a failure of existing laws and processes. I think we should fix them before deciding on new ones.
They receive several hundred thousand calls annually on the tip line which took this information. It's up to them to sort through and push the legitimate threats up the chain.
They failed miserably, and considering the information and its source, inexcusably.
Maybe the tip line routes through Mumbai.
and now Virgil lets us know of the failure of the local cops. i will bet they were hamstrung by some PC mental health laws.
It was reported that the school had an armed resource officer. Said officer was not in proximity to the shooter. Which sucks.
maybe the local/state guys should have done more to get this guy committed to a hospital where he might have notten help.
They're closed, for the most part. Some of those on the right don't want to pay for them; some of those on the left are against having even the obviously mentally ill committed against their will because "rights" trumps public safety in their heads.
So here we are. Kind of like immigration. Some of the left is like "borders are bad, we're all world citizens, man" (plus importing future voters, in their mind). Some on the right are perfectly happy with a permanent underclass of underpaid, easily-exploited workers.
So neither problem gets solved, even though both cry for a solution.
The FBI is in a questionable situation also in regard to the Charlottesville incident.
According to Sonofnewo, the FBI took the video from the surveillance camera of a pie shop on Fourth Street and has not informed the local police investigators or prosecutors about the video's existence.
The pie shop was located on Fourth Street, between Main Street and Market Street, and its surveillance camera was pointed at the street.
James Fields was on Fourth Street for at least 1:15 minutes before he drove into the crowd of anti-racism protesters. During that time, he backed up his car to some point between Main and Market, and then from that location he raced his car into the crowd.
A US Government van was parked roughly in front of the pie shop.
BREAKING: The FBI Stole Evidence out of Charlottesville
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JqO35Nqjo
The national tip line got one call.
There were multiple calls to the Miami FBI office reporting the "I'll be a professional school shooter" tweet of Mr. de Cruz. They claimed they "couldn't identify him" even though he was tweeting under his own name. They did, however, find time to harass at least one of the people reporting Mr. de Cruz.
Wow. R/V really dislikes that whole Bill of Rights thingy.
I don't feel great about any 19 YO being able to purchase an ar15. That feeling goes way down when that 19 YO is parentless, expelled, and is known to have a proclivity to hurt animals.
"And if the school had an armed guard or a parent with a carry permit, maybe Cruz coulda been dropped early."
I read that their was at least one armed security guard assigned to the school, but it's a very large campus, 3500 students, and the guard were in another building or possibly not on site.
I haven't verified that so take it with a grain of salt.
320 said it first.
So, the NYT comes up with yet another excuse for an FBI cover-up.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
We can't investigate incompetence and malfeasance at the FBI and DOJ or else people will lose their trust in them.
By the way, this last argument reminds me of the Casey decision where Kennedy, et al. admitted that Roe had zero justification in the Constitution but that they nevertheless had to re-affirm it or else people would lose faith in the Court.
Do people like Roesch/Voltaire actually believe that if we take away all the guns these mass killings will stop?
Just a reminder: 168 people died in the Oklahoma City bombing.
It's too much trouble to make bombs? 86 people lost their lives in Nice, France when a terrorist plowed his truck into a crowded sidewalk.
roesch/voltaire said...
"Even more teens are speaking up carrying signs that read The NRA is a Terrorist Organization-- but of course these too will be ignored."
Remember those heady days of yesteryear when Walker was running for governor of Wisconsin? You breathless came here asserting that Walker was planning to privatise deer hunting in the state.
That if anyone voted for walker they were complicit in cloing off vast areas of public land for hunting.
Do you remember saying that?
Did governor Walker privatise deer hunting?
No?
Now you're claiming absolute moral authority over the NRA.
The NRA that has maybe about two million members in a gun owning population of 100 million. The NRA which has two purposes. 1) To insure 2nd amendment rights for all citizens and 2) You better sit down. Firearm safety. Yes the terrorist organization, has as one of it's main goals is to promote gun safety.
It is impossible to take you seriously.
How many "known wolves" have there been behind terrorist attacks in the past few years.
Khesanh 0802: "Given the findings of malfeasance in the upper echelons of FBI management it is no wonder that things are falling apart in the field."
Very similar to all the Naval Vessel collisions due to incompetence and lack of training.
On the plus side, all members of our military and law enforcement agencies are fully up to speed on transgenderism and the use of desired transgender pronouns.
It was an act of war, not unlike the World Trade Center. Extrapolate from there on what needs to be done. Americans need to take their country back from the corrupt police unions.
It might already be optimal. You have to husband resources, and play the odds that this one's not false so pay attention to it rather than the others that compete with it for the resources and are more likely.
Type I and Type II errors. False positive (= negative) and missed positive.
You always have to trade them off.
Republicans pounce
How about a "new avenue" of justifiable criticism? But we're not supposed to notice when functionaries are more concerned with cashing their checks and counting the days until their pensions fully vest than, you know, actually being effective at doing their jobs. Yet these are the exact same people who will be tasked with administering
and enforcing whatever new law that Democrats or "moderates" like ARM demand to solve "the problem."
Alleged Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz was reported to FBI, cops, school -- but warning signs missed
Not only the FBI, but the Sheriff, too, which should have warranted, if not incarceration, then a failed background check. This guy was a known risk to himself and others for nearly a decade, which is sufficient to prevent legal possession of a gun, a scalpel, a vacuum, and other dual-use instruments.
The FBI pretty much proves why we need a second amendment. When seconds count, the FBI is months away.
Why would the FBI be concerned about an incipient school shooter? They had a President to take down! Priorities, people!
What about the local cops?
Before Nikolas Cruz carried out his mass killing at a Florida high school this week, police responded to his home 39 times over a seven-year period, according to disturbing new documents.
So our 'small state' conservatives want more interference in our society by our state police apparatus. Shouldn't the 'small state' conservatives be focused on the failure of the family, of the local church, the local school, the local police, the local community and not on the role or lack thereof of our intrusive state police.
How many "known wolves" have there been behind terrorist attacks in the past few years.
And what did the FBI do after, say, the Orlando shooter slipped through their fingers to look back through their files to find the ones they missed?
So our 'small state' conservatives want more interference in our society by our state police apparatus.
I just want them to lock crazy people up.
I'm pretty ignorant about how this is supposed to work. Let's pretend that they properly checked him out and found that he's bad news. What legal course of action could they have taken? Could they have had him committed? Could they have taken his gun? Could the have put him on the do-not-buy list?
Shouldn't the 'small state' conservatives be focused on the failure of the family, of the local church, the local school, the local police, the local community and not on the role or lack thereof of our intrusive state police.
The small state people are busy right now pointing out how the local, state, and federal police can't prevent shootings no matter the laws they're given and the tips they're sent.
How soon until we learn that this is due to the FBI agents' low morale, caused by President Trump's criticism of the Bureau? And that the solution is for Trump to lay off and stop besmirching their good name?
Or did I just give CNN ideas?
Could they have had him committed? Could they have taken his gun? Could the have put him on the do-not-buy list?
Could they have helped him get a job? Invited him over for dinner? Played a game of basketball with him? Helped him get into counseling?
So many options after 39 calls to his house.
Surprise, surprise. The FBI was totally worthless as an Investigative law enforcement body.
That figures, because they only pretend to be that type of body , while they cover up the cover ups for the Clintons and manage to get their share of huge bribes from Soros established slush funds.
"Shouldn't the 'small state' conservatives be focused on the failure of the family, of the local church, the local school, the local police, the local community"
Well, I am.
"So many options after 39 calls to his house." Such a snarky response to a question that is at the core of this: What, exactly, can legally be done when an individual has not committed any crime, has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent, nor ever committed to a mental institution (if they still exist at all.)
Our society de-institutionalized the mentally ill, made it difficult if not impossible to involuntarily commit an "adult," and generally has relinquished management of the mentally unstable to law enforcement -- and that should NOT be their job.
Where are the mental health "professionals" in all this blame and shame?
Shouldn't the 'small state' conservatives be focused on . . .
Shouldn't we all be focused on the topic at hand rather than engaging in deflection and demonization of others?
"We have top men working on it right now."
-sw
Could they have had him committed?
Not anymore...because a bunch of feel good Lefties changed the law.....
Based on Melania's unwillingness to even hold his hand it seems likely that for the next four years at least Trump is getting about as much sex as the average Trappist monk.
Just watched Marie Barf ... er.... Harf on the Fox News say someone should be fired over this. Wanna bet?
ARM: "Based on Melania's unwillingness to even hold his hand it seems likely that for the next four years at least Trump is getting about as much sex as the average Trappist monk"
This is what ARM has been reduced to.
I blame the Russians.
Apparently, the only way to get the FBI to investigate possible mass murderers is to submit a "dossier" to the FBI from a "well respected" foreign source and be sure to make a Trump connection the main theme.
Well Pam Bondi says every call will be followed up on. Now, I feel better. Someone give her the hook!
Martin Luther King. Mark Felt. Greg Scarpa. Steve Flemmi. Whitey Bulger. Waco. Ruby Ridge. The Boston Bombers. The Fort Hood shooter.
Add Nikolas Cruz to the list.
The FBI is full of politicians and bureaucrats not cops.
We need to get rid of the FBI and CIA and start new.
John Scott said...
Do people like Roesch/Voltaire actually believe that if we take away all the guns these mass killings will stop?
Just a reminder: 168 people died in the Oklahoma City bombing.
It's too much trouble to make bombs? 86 people lost their lives in Nice, France when a terrorist plowed his truck into a crowded sidewalk.
2/16/18, 4:20 PM
Not to mention the plot two brothers were cooking up in the Bronx, which as we all know is a totally gun-free zone:
"A former teacher and his twin brother kept more than 30 pounds of bomb-making materials in their Bronx home, along with a note suggesting they were planning to slaughter children, authorities said.
Federal officials arrested Christian and Tyler Toro, 27, in an early morning raid Thursday at their Pelham Parkway apartment and uncovered the material, along with notes and a diary referring to a plan called “Operation Code Name Flash,” authorities said.
“Under the full moon the small ones will know terror,” read a purple index card packed inside a yellow backpack, according to a criminal complaint.
Authorities found 20 pounds of iron oxide, 5 pounds of aluminum powder, 5 pounds of potassium nitrate and 2 pounds of confectioner’s sugar, as well as a jar of explosive powder and metal fragments — all of which they said can be used to make bombs.
The raid also turned up Tyler Toro’s diary, which read, “We are twin Toros strike us now, we will return with nano thermite,” according to the complaint.
Christian Toro allegedly paid students at a NYC high school $50 an hour to break apart fireworks.
The ex-special-education teacher was busted on Jan. 31 for allegedly having a series of sexual encounters with a 15-year-old girl in his apartment between September 2017 and January, according to court documents.
That development warranted an entry in his twin’s diary — “Christian arrested.”
“If you’re registered as a sex offender, things will be difficult. but I am here 100%, living, buying weapons. Whatever we need,” the diary reads, according to the complaint."
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/teacher-brother-students-bomb-nyc-terror-plot-article-1.3823638
In all fairness, in this case, the Feds were on the ball. Just imagine what 30 pounds of explosives could have done. These brothers could have killed a lot more than 17 people. Hey, R/V and ARM, do we need to ban iron oxide and confectioner's sugar?
It's just great that a teacher got his special ed students involved in bomb making. Now that's what I call hands on learning.
Murph:
I don't see how "39 calls to his house" since 2010 fits with "when an individual has not committed any crime", unless someone else in the house was triggering most of the calls. Surely by the 10th call at the latest, any family should be well into "don't makes us come out here again or we'll bring charges" territory. Unless the police are doing what many police forces do these days: charge all felonies short of murder as misdemeanors, and ignore misdemeanors entirely.
I am not talking about taking away guns only background checks, waiting time but yes a ban asuult semiautomatic rifles. Why do you exaggerate these common sense approaches?
Instead of calling an FBI hotline the tipsters should have called Orbis Business Intelligence, because Christopher Steele knows how to get the attention of the FBI.
Ban handguns shot sideways: sorry, gangsta.
-6W
I just want them to lock crazy people up.
Like commenters that add "Beloved" to their handles. . .
Dr. Weevil: all I've read is "calls," with no specific info regarding the substance. If the "calls" were of the sort that should have resulted in charges, I hope that will be revealed at some point.
Just fyi, I've gone on ridealongs with my LE kid to "domestic calls" where, for example, a parent called the cops because their 13 & 15 year old kids were arguing over what TV program to watch. I kid you not.
He apparently had nothing in his record that would prevent him from purchasing his firearm:
"Florida has a three-day waiting period for handgun purchases. But anyone without a felony record, domestic abuse conviction, or a handful of other exceptions — such as a commitment to a mental institution — can walk into a gun store, wait a few minutes to clear a background check, and walk out with an AR-15 -style rifle, magazines and ammunition."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/ar15-mass-shootings-guns.html
PS: Dr. Weevil.
"Unless the police are doing what many police forces do these days: charge all felonies short of murder as misdemeanors, and ignore misdemeanors entirely."
I think you may be confusing police with prosecutors. The police do not determine what charges to bring. The prosecutor's office does that.
His defense attorney states that her client is willing to plead guilty to avoid the death penalty. Isn't that special???!!! Hope they don't accept a plea deal. It should be an easy case to try so long as they pick a jury that isn't anti-death-penalty.
Details about the calls to the Broward County Sheriff’s Office — obtained from police records by CNN — were not immediately available and it was impossible to determine if all involved Cruz.
But the nature of the emergencies at his Parkland home included “mentally ill person,” “child/elderly abuse,” “domestic disturbance” and “missing person,” KTLA reported.
https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/deputies-called-to-suspected-shooters-home-39-times-over-seven-years/
And then there's this: obviously, LE feels somewhat powerless when dealing with this kind of situation.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sheriff-florida-shooting-calls-power-detain-over-social-media-n848486
Mr. Cruz?
Ted Cruz?
Republicans love themselves mass shootings. Every time one happens it helps make them feel more "free."
They're a weird and violent bunch. Normal people just go to the beach or take off work when they want to feel free.
But not Republicans. They need a mass firearm casualty to lighten their spirits.
Pity about all the dead people and dead little schoolchildren. But Republicans run things in this country and they seem to really enjoy having these sorts of things happen.
You never know when those little kids were about to ally themselves with King George the IIIrd or orchestrate a tyrannical government takeover.
You know, the things really concern the right wingers. Because they are so likely to happen.
Keeping young children alive? Not so much.
Which do you think is more likely to happen?
A kid in America will be gunned down or tyranny will come to the red states due to "low" firearm ownership?
And by "low," keep in mind that America's firearm ownership rate is already the highest in the world by more than double, at 0.9 guns per person. (Only Yemen's rate even comes close - at ~0.55 guns per person, and we know how peaceful a society theirs is).
I think every Republican should be forced to go door-to-door to every school in America after one of these massacres and explain to all the little kids why they think it's important to get more guns into the hands of more people, and why they find the lives that are taken in the course of these events to be an acceptable trade-off to them.
We are literally sacrificing children as pagans would to the Gun God. The One True Gun God that keeps the tyranny that's always somehow right around the corner from actually being in charge. Except for Putin. He and Trump are friends and business "partners" so that's ok.
I'm sure Putin wouldn't mind seeing the American population reduced through greater gun use. He seems to share this aim with his Republican friends.
Fu, TTR. You’re nothing but a ghoul.
Remember: Every time a schoolchild gets gunned down a Republican gets a nice pin to put on their jacket from the NRA chair to show their support.
To them it feels like being an angel and getting their wings.
Fu, TTR. You’re nothing but a ghoul.
Ahh... Nice to see that the truth hurts.
I'm not the one supporting pro-schoolchild massacre policies.
Go to those schools and tell those kids why it's so important for you to put more guns in the hands of more people who love guns.
Go on. Go face them.
I can face them. I did nothing to contribute to this. I feel no guilt.
You are a shameful piece of gun-fired excrement.
Go and tell the kids how you will keep them safe.
Tell them about the police state you'd like to turn their schools into.
You’re nothing but a ghoul.
Are you saying that I am invisible to your Republican gun-utilization policies?
Probably. I am a ghost in gun country to all the Republicans doing all they can to put more guns in more potential murderers' hands. They cannot see me. Or the kids, for that matter.
They see right through those kids.
And are deaf to their cries.
This is what defines a Republican: Contempt and dismissiveness for the people they do their most to help get killed.
That is all your party is.
Darrell said...
Like commenters that add
Didn't you get blocked as a troll a while back?
How many kids did you help get killed this week, I Callahan?
Remember: You did it for the freedom.
And for NRA lobbying contributions to the Republican Party.
Those kids lives were taken not in vain. They were sacrificed so that you could feel more free and so that Republicans could get more NRA campaign funds.
I am not a ghoul. I am the ghost of Valentine's Day Present.
Look at all the kids you got killed.
Was it worth it?
Maybe the NRA could pay for those coffins.
Decorate them, even. Emblazon their logo on them.
With a little, red white and blue elephant on the bottom.
It's important for Republicans to also take credit for all the (psychological) freedom they purchased with those kids' lives.
Some common sense. From a Dem, no less.
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/13308322-74/democrat-conor-lamb-says-new-gun-laws-not-needed-to-prevent-violence
an easy case to try so long as they pick a jury that isn't anti-death-penalty
If the guy is guilty as charged, then the sentence should be capital punishment.
However, if there is any doubt, or if he is wholly innocent, then he can always be sentenced to an elective abortion.
Either way, his sentence can be carried out humanely with a flip of a switch or a flick of a scalpel at the local Planned Parenthood, then reduced, reused, and recycled at their Mengele division.
democrat-conor-lamb-says-new-gun-laws-not-needed-to-prevent-violence
That's right. The issue is a known high risk individual who passed a background check. As well as an FBI entangled by partisan priorities.
#BLM = Baby Lives Matter
Some common sense. From a Dem, no less.
Who's running against a Republican with an "A+" rating from the NRA for his pro-gun votes.
Common sense: Morality can be purchased for a job. It used to be called "bribery."
Republicans: The party that lacks the common sense to not even figure out how to get fewer kids from being gunned down, but to even understand how bribes and votes and campaign funding and election promises work.
But don't worry. I'm sure the kids understand. It helps you feel "free" and that's the important thing.
There are kids in school right now who won't be around by the end of the year because of the votes of immoral dupes like "Murph."
In school. Right now.
But not by the end of the year.
Which ones will be killed for the sake of fulfilling your ideological fetish, Murph? Which ones?
Some will probably even be killed by the end of the month.
Don't you feel good about that? It's all in pursuit of your higher goal. You don't mind cracking a few eggs while trying to make your freedom omelette, do you?
Even Stalin and Mao and Hitler had to get people killed to achieve their political dreams so you're in good company.
Robert Cook said...
Stupid people! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
The well-known prevalence among among Americans for applauding (or passively accepting) the abuse of subjects under police interrogation--because the subjects are "bad people," don't you know?--reveals how little we understand or value our rapidly diminishing-unto-vanishing civil liberties, (not to mention how little mercy we "exemplars to the world" hold toward our fellow humans).
Even if one believes suspects in custody deserve to be abused--(and the withholding of medical care from injured or sick suspects in custody is as much abuse as is the infliction of pain or humiliation)--because of what one thinks they've done or what they're are accused of doing, even assuming they're actually guilty of the accusations against them, it is always wrong and should be prohibited, and police personnel should always be punished for such breaches.
It does not matter if the suspect is guilty, or if he is the worst human being who ever lived; aside from any humanitarian concerns we should have--as a prominent Republican senator and former candidate for president put it, in repudiating torture: "It's not about who they are; it's about who we are;" that is to say, we should not relish becoming as savage as those we purport to hate for their savagery--there is also the matter of self-protection. Tools that we permit to the authorities will be used against all of us. Even if we don't care in the least for how badly a malevolent human being is treated, there is no way to insure that only truly malevolent human beings end up in police custody, accused of crimes, assumed to be guilty. There is no way to insure that you won't end up in police custody, subject to the not-so-tender mercies we have granted them through our cheers or acquiescence.
8/22/13, 8:20 AM
TTR, you remind me of one of those guys who wear sandwich board & walk up and down the sidewalk shouting, "The end is near! The end is near!"
You make about just as much sense, too. But it is amusing to read your babble.
Signed with love and understanding,
Immoral Dupe Murph
Rabal said Maybe the tip line routes through Mumbai.
I see what you did there.
What "end," Murph?
Not for you. You don't have to go to school.
We can survive as a nation while still getting a few hundred kids shot up each year. That's obvious.
We have tens of millions of other kids to offset those "losses." Nationally.
Just not morally. So thank you for providing your explanation here about how each of those lives lost this week didn't really matter to you. I knew that already.
We all knew that.
You fucks missed it I bet.
The brilliance dipshit:
Robert Cook said...
Stupid people! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
The well-known prevalence among among Americans for applauding (or passively accepting) the abuse of subjects under police interrogation--because the subjects are "bad people," don't you know?--reveals how little we understand or value our rapidly diminishing-unto-vanishing civil liberties, (not to mention how little mercy we "exemplars to the world" hold toward our fellow humans).
Even if one believes suspects in custody deserve to be abused--(and the withholding of medical care from injured or sick suspects in custody is as much abuse as is the infliction of pain or humiliation)--because of what one thinks they've done or what they're are accused of doing, even assuming they're actually guilty of the accusations against them, it is always wrong and should be prohibited, and police personnel should always be punished for such breaches.
It does not matter if the suspect is guilty, or if he is the worst human being who ever lived; aside from any humanitarian concerns we should have--as a prominent Republican senator and former candidate for president put it, in repudiating torture: "It's not about who they are; it's about who we are;" that is to say, we should not relish becoming as savage as those we purport to hate for their savagery--there is also the matter of self-protection. Tools that we permit to the authorities will be used against all of us. Even if we don't care in the least for how badly a malevolent human being is treated, there is no way to insure that only truly malevolent human beings end up in police custody, accused of crimes, assumed to be guilty. There is no way to insure that you won't end up in police custody, subject to the not-so-tender mercies we have granted them through our cheers or acquiescence.
8/22/13, 8:20 AM
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Boomer cucks tell us dimwits why you love how principled the above quoted is.
That makes you smart! You are open minded. You accept different viewpoints.
You don't understand why getting slapped around over and over is bad.
Okay.
The idea hardin is emotionally somehow compared to his IQ is a limiting factor.
Althouse incorporates ideas diminishing to other's arguments, because she argues superior, sometimes.
Especially when referencing a subject repeatedly discussed.
Emotion and reason aren't the same but aren't different either.
It's so easy for Catholics.
THere wa t this dude, gyy from gerogis,
said orient.
You got to orient yo' self.
Then you decide what do too's it.
Then fucactitupsyo
He said "ooda" I said "that's what she ain't said bro"
Thousands of kids have died in Chicago from gunshot wounds.
The reason it isn't in the news, is that they were all colored people. The FBI doesn't want to help there either. They're too busy in Iraq and Syria.
I don't give a shit if the FBI or Florida State Police or the local police had drug that nutjob into their interrogation room.
All I care about is they DIDN'T!!! Not a damn one of them took the time to take him 'down town' and question him about it.
Question him about what? Oh...
a) The FBI was warned about a YouTube user named Nikolas Cruz after he posted in September that he was “going to be a professional school shooter yet they 'forgot' to warn the local police.
b) Deputies called to killer's home 39 times!
c) Was investigated after cutting himself on SNAPCHAT!
d) He was expelled for disciplinary reasons from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida (expelled for allegedly for bringing knives to school.)
e) A teacher at the school said Cruz had been identified as a potential threat to fellow students in the past. Math teacher Jim Gard told the Herald, “There were problems with him last year threatening students, and I guess he was asked to leave campus.”
f) He posted on instagram photos of guns and knives and wanted more.
g) Police Received a Tip That the Suspected Shooter Was Watching Videos About Making Bombs
h) Friends have said he was known to always be mentally ill and would kill animals.
i) A YouTube account believed to be associated with him was also flagged for making troubling comments on various video posts in the past.
The comments include: "I wanna die Fighting killing shit ton of people," "I am going to kill law enforcement one day they go after good people," and "I'm going to be a professional school shooter." A YouTube user reported the latter comment to law enforcement officials after it appeared on his video last September, and officials confirmed to CNN that the FBI had received a report about the post, which was promptly taken down.
Yes folks, everybody knew and everybody did nothing. Kind of hard to tell kids to 'see something, say something' and the authorities don't do shit.
Yes they didn't do SHIT but they want to take my guns from me!!!!
Honey we shrunk our collective ego, because we allowed it, so why not allow more?
It made us better!
IT DEFINES US!!!!!!!!!
You know if it didn't what would.
I think it right and proper Mitt rule in the Senate.
You fucks probably are anti-Mormon bigots though.
And stupid, alcoholic pill-selling cherry-not-popping Trumpits.
First evidence I've seen of the Honey Bu Bu Prophecy is the greatest television actor of all time, bar none, Mr. Jeffrey Tambor, being fired.
Art meats life.
Jeff ain't no Hank Kingsley Junior neither, like some fuck weren't no damn fucking band leader.
Capiche.
Even the -one-step-above-a-tapeworm Johnny Casparo, a self-admitted schnuck, knew enough to remark upon his getting slapped-around.
Per the Coen's Miller's Crossing anyway.
Fuckin' Casparo.
Yes they didn't do SHIT but they want to take my guns from me!!!!
No, Paul. The didn't do shit because they want to take your guns from you.
We can survive as a nation while still getting a few hundred kids shot up each year. That's obvious.
@Toothless, I see you're still pushing Barack Obama's line about Muslim terrorism. Except we don't at this point know whether Cruz was a Muslim.
Except we don't at this point know whether Cruz was a Muslim.
If you think it makes a difference whether it's a muslim or non-muslim who murders you I can arrange to have the religiously appropriate henchman of your choosing do the deed when he runs into you next.
The caller who warned the FBI probably should have said Cruz was a Trump supporter who had spoken about contacts with Russians.
Just throwing this out for discussion.
Can You buy a car w/o DL?
Can you drive it off the lot w/o DL?
Why not require gun safety and shooting safety training before selling gun and for ammunition?
The Toothless State-fellator still appears unaware that the bloodiest gunslinger in history is his beloved, Der Staat. (Google "R J Rummel Democide." Prof. Rummel specializes in what he calls "democide"--the State's propensity to murder us. Just who'd you want to surrender your weapons to.)
Why not require gun safety and shooting safety training before selling gun and for ammunition?
Because owning a gun is a Constitutional right...driving a car isn't.
We already know that the FBI's priorities have been questionable, to say the least. The Mueller thing just makes this revelation all the more painful.
@Toothless, I figured you’d miss my point. When it came to terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists, St. Barack thx Lightbringer took the position that they did not constitute an “existential threat,” i.e., the US could afford to lose a few dozen people annually. And Democrats, by and by large, fell right in line. It’s not far-fetched to think that he would have asked for calm and told us that the Psrkland shooting was not an existential threat, if only Cruz was a Muslim.
"So many options after 39 calls to his house." Such a snarky response to a question that is at the core of this: What, exactly, can legally be done when an individual has not committed any crime, has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent, nor ever committed to a mental institution (if they still exist at all.)
Our society de-institutionalized the mentally ill, made it difficult if not impossible to involuntarily commit an "adult," and generally has relinquished management of the mentally unstable to law enforcement -- and that should NOT be their job.
Where are the mental health "professionals" in all this blame and shame?
It seems your solution is the police get to come to your house and lock you up if the people around you feel you're somehow threatening. For what, an indeterminate time? Or are we just going to pass the baton to the mental health people to determine when you can freely walk the streets again?
That's not a society, it's a police state. You won't find many here advocating for it.
What I'm saying is rather than tell the kid you think he's crazy, throw him in a room and decide you've done your duty, why aren't the police - for starters- engaging this kid into productive interests which get him voluntarily integrating himself into the community?
Remember, it was the community that cast him out. And it was the community that kept investigating and signaling he continued to be an outcast, and it was the community that ultimately bore the wrath he'd built up against it.
And what do the liberals in positions of power want to do about this situation? Take away his civil rights and lock him in a cell when he hasn't done anything illegal.
When that fails, we'll probably hear the next logical thing is to make him wear a special jumpsuit should he get out with the letter "N" for nutcase prominently displayed.
That way everyone who comes in contact with him will know just how much he should be shunned.
And if you're going to come back and suggest that you didn't mean forceful help but voluntary, then I think my prior post about how the police might have fruitfully engaged him after 39 trips to his house stands on its own.
Let's just start with this, how many ride alongs did he go on with local police?
Did they ever suggest hanging out with them, or did they just show up, shake their heads, and walk away from him....
...39 times?
Narayanan Subramanian said...
"Just throwing this out for discussion.
Can You buy a car w/o DL?
Can you drive it off the lot w/o DL?
Why not require gun safety and shooting safety training before selling gun and for ammunition?"
Safety training might prevent some gun accidents, but accidental shootings aren't the problem at hand.
When did the police become the Big Brothers of America?
The school system are the ones who kicked him out and left him to drift.
Narayanan Subramanian said...
"Just throwing this out for discussion.
Can You buy a car w/o DL?
Can you drive it off the lot w/o DL?
Yes and yes as long as it's not on a public road.
Why not require gun safety and shooting safety training before selling gun and for ammunition?"
Gun safety isn't an issue. There are very few accidents involving guns. In fact you're probably safer in the woods during deer season in almost any state thn on the streets of Chicago.
Firearm owners tend to be a pretty safe bunch.
Gahrie asserts: The school system are the ones who kicked him out and left him to drift.
He had already been placed in an alternative school for behavioral issues. Why should our public schools be required to accommodate antisocial behavior?
It looks like The Toothless One is taxing for a take off. It maybe time to report him to the FBI.
Even more teens are speaking up carrying signs that read The NRA is a Terrorist Organization-- but of course these too will be ignored.
As they should.
Why do you exaggerate these common sense approaches? r/v
Because a ban on semi-automatic weapons is not a common-sense approach, you totalitarian ass.
He had already been placed in an alternative school for behavioral issues.
That was before he was transferred to the school he was expelled from and then shot up. I guarantee you he was in the special ed program and labeled severely emotionally disturbed while there.
In the old days this kid would have been institutionalized and not allowed to drift, especially after the death of his adoptive mother.
While we continue to speculate à la Michael Chrichton let me throw this in the mix. An FBI committed to getting rid of Trump might find continued acts of mass violence helpful. 4 times we know of they let things unfold without intervening. This is deep conspiracy theory but we are talking about the most powerful government in the history of the world.
"The school system are the ones who kicked him out and left him to drift."
We shouldn't be letting the schools, or any system, raise our children. It takes a parent, preferably two.
Everyone has a breaking point, and the school system is perfect for breaking the fragile. Schools are pretty much overcrowded rat cages, behavioral sinks, where the strong eat the weak. High school is the best time of your life, if you're one of the favored, or a member of Archie's gang; it's not necessarily a pleasant or worthwhile experience for others.
How many home schooled kids shoot up their schools? Even the per-capita rate must be much lower.
In 1963 at my high school, every other car in the student parking lot had one or more guns in it, every boy had a 3"+ pocket knife, and 1/2 of the girls ('60s terminology) had a smaller knife in their purse. WE WERE AWASH IN WEAPONS but no one was shot, stabbed, or slashed.
The technology was identical and available to everyone but WE, the students, were different. Banning guns (whoops, already done) will not fill the void left by the absence of personal responsibility in the students (and their parents).
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