Reports The Daily Mail.
ADDED: From the WaPo article on the subject:
McGowan writes in her book that after the alleged rape, one of her first calls was to Messick. Messick “counseled me to see it as something that would help my career in the long run,” McGowan writes. “I threw up. I felt like I was in a fun house and all the mirrors were reflecting my horrors. And my manager’s instinct was to squash everything, which just freaked me out more. How could she not have known? And if she did, how could the woman I trusted with my life set me up? I was terrified.”...
“When we met up the following day, she hesitantly told me of her own accord that during the meeting that night before she had gotten into a hot tub with Mr. Weinstein. She was very clear about the fact that getting into that hot tub was something that she did consensually and that in hindsight it was also something that she regretted having done,” Messick is quoted as saying.
According to Messick’s family, the quotes came from an email she sent to Weinstein months before the allegations came out against him. The legal team chose to release the email without Messick’s consent, her family said.
“Seeing her name in headlines again and again, as part of one person’s attempt to gain more attention for her personal cause, along with Harvey’s desperate attempt to vindicate himself, was devastating for her,” the family’s statement read. Messick, they said, “chose to remain silent in the face of Rose’s slanderous statements against her for fear of undermining the many individuals who came forward in truth. What makes Rose’s inaccurate accusations and insinuations against Jill ironic was that she was the first person who stood up on Rose’s behalf, and alerted her bosses to the horrific experience which Rose suffered,” the family stated.
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63 comments:
Me sick over one sick mess?
Like with Hillary and Comey, it's always the messenger to blame, never the initial act.
She has the look of disaster and despair at the link.
The suicide aftermath scene from the movie "Absence of Malice" comes to mind...
"Couldn't you stop scribbling for a second, just put down your goddamn ballpoint pen?"
"Didn't you see her?"
"Didn't you like her?"
Crazy chicks - believe every word!
"One of her first clients was Rose McGowan, and one of Jill’s first duties was to set up a breakfast meeting with Harvey Weinstein during the Sundance Film Festival. Following the meeting, Rose told Jill what had happened — that she made the decision to remove her clothes and get in the hot tub with him (so she was "sexually harassing" Weinstein) — a mistake which Rose immediately regretted. Rose never once used the word rape in that conversation. Despite this, Jill recognized that Harvey had done something untoward to Rose, if not illegal."
A "now look what you made me do" story.
The self-righteous revenge fest of the "victim" is piling up real victims. We are all "collateral damage." Anyone who thinks anything good is coming of it is deluded.
Usually, the deepest meaning of a suicide is " fuck you asshole!"
Rather than blame McGowan, maybe they ought to examine their own conduct in failing to give Messick help. Also, yes, words do matter, and someone’s life does depend on it. So perhaps they ought to direct their ire towards those who have glorified past people who killed themselves and towards the overall cultural trend of making suicide socially acceptable. And remember too, that even in the deepest depression and most severe anxiety, despite all the pain, killing yourself is still a choice.
There was a story in the Post a couple of days ago about the spike of suicides in the aftermath of Robin Williams' last act on earth being an act of murder.
This is all you need to know about McGowan/Weinstein:
"Rose continued making films with the Weinsteins."
Let me add the following: If you can stand to watch this, it is actually instructive.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/rose-mcgowan-cancels-public-appearances-screaming-match-article-1.3796491
Rose McGowan verbally attacked by a trans woman for not being supportive enough of trans women, and Rose then going ballistic that anyone else might dare to try to outdo her in the outrage department. Meanwhile, McGowan's agent, who recalled McGowan's initial account of her tryst with HC as "consensual" has committed suicide.
Greek tragedy could not capture the hubris, the irony and absurdity of it all better than this.
>"Rose continued making films with the Weinsteins."
That's a very troubling detail.
It does give the impression that we're being asked to be more outraged than the victim was.
There was a statement in that statement which paraphrased is that someone spoke mean words, and that is why she’s dead.
I don’t like the feeling I’m getting about words having the ability to inflict physical damages. It’s hard for me to not invision a future in which free speech falls victim to this type of logic. It’s already the case in many parts of the world.
Chivalry was a system that protected women and men by putting certain restrictions on each.
One of the restrictions would have been don't take your clothes off and get into a hot tub with a man who is not your husband.
Yeah, I know, victim shaming. OTOH, there were fewer victims to shame back in the day.
The lot of them are corrupt. Its an ugly, corrupt industry.
There is no clean split between villain and victim. Almost all are both to some degree.
Some of them get depressed out of guilt, contemplating their lives so far.
The way out is confession, repentance, and, especially, penance.
>I don’t like the feeling I’m getting about words having the ability to inflict physical damages.
It's harsh, but I'm inclined to agree. "You should be ashamed of telling the truth" is kind of a non-starter, and too obviously an attempt to cover things up.
Suicide is so selfish. She has two children
Assrat said...
It does give the impression that we're being asked to be more outraged than the victim was.
I surprised Weinstein continued to work with her after she sexually harassed him by getting into his hot-tub naked.
"for fear of undermining the many individuals who came forward in truth" No, most of them are not telling the truth. They are telling a version of their story that leaves out anything they did wrong. Messick made the mistake of telling the actual truth, in a private email to another woman. Bad idea.
(Not to be misunderstood: Obviously, none of this exculpates Weinstein. But it will become an issue if these cases come to court.)
No, no, we’re the victims!
McGowan did nothing wrong but speak the truth. She spoke it too late, but regardless of what the Left insists, the truth has no expiration date. I’d like to feel sorry for the family but their choice of victimhood over responsibility just invites contempt. What a fucked-up little culture.
'The self-righteous revenge fest of the "victim" is piling up real victims. We are all "collateral damage." Anyone who thinks anything good is coming of it is deluded.'
:O Couldn't disagree more. Some of us have enough sense to stay away from compromising situations with our co-workers, and we are safe. Those who didn't will start doing that. Certain industries will have to move in the direction of leaving behind their barbarian ethics and joining the rest of civilized society in how co-workers and subordinates are to be treated. It's all good. #KeepItUp
Anyone else share my suspicion that McGowan comes off as a little too saintly in all this? Shaved head of shame and all.
Rose has a book to sell, so hush.
Funny how that continued-working-with-the-Weinsteins bit is conveniently left out of the reports on brave Rosie.
Is the lure of stardom so great that you will work with the man that raped you?
So great that she stayed silent over so many years while HW continued to prey on young actresses?
Is the spotlight today so warm and comforting that she had to explode in rage on the trans person that dared sneak into the surrounding glow for a moment?
In the end, the only one responsible for a suicide is the person taking their own life.
What a dreadful thing for Messick's family.
"In the end, the only one responsible for a suicide is the person taking their own life."
Yeah, but that won't stop some people from feeling guilty and maybe questioning their own motives and actions.
Rose McGowan is enjoying her victimhood now or was, probably less so now but I predict will become increasingly bitter as she ages and loses her good looks.
Anyone else share my suspicion that McGowan comes off as a little too saintly in all this? Shaved head of shame and all.
No, she comes off to most people as a wacko, I would think.
But also a wacko who happens to be right.
So hearing the truth about her past conduct caused her to commit suicide.
McGowan had nothing to do with it.
Blogger chickelit said...
Rose has a book to sell, so hush.
I thought Harvey's Irish Rose cancelled her book tour after that trans person yelled at her in the book store?
This brings up the old cliche:
You can't wallow with the pigs....
Pretty much all the good stuff has already been a comment here. rhhardin said it best.
Suicide is so selfish. She has two children
Bad pharma combo, I suspect. It distorts your thinking.
Hollywood types really go in for that kind of "treatment."
"Can one so rich in love be so poor in pity?"
-- Moses, The Ten Commandments (1956)
The real outrage was a fat old guy getting some.
The trouble with calling out dysfunctional cultures is that almost everyone can be charged with participating in it. The "like you're any better" argument dissuades a lot of people from calling out the problems. So they continue. Sociopaths and narcissists play on the shame and guilt of others to keep them silenced. They use willing involvement of others at one point to make a person feel they lost all moral responsibility to talk about misbehavior.
A morally pure person wouldn't have been in the setting to begin with, and so anyone who has first hand knowledge is going to have their own issues. But that doesn't mean they should stay silent. Because the bigger issue is how the behavior continued to victimize both the willing and the unwilling in perpetuating a pattern of abuse and illegal behavior (defined by sexual harassment laws that every other workplace must follow).
>A morally pure person wouldn't have been in the setting to begin with, and so anyone who has first hand knowledge is going to have their own issues.
That's a very good point. One of the awful things about this is that a potential actress who left Hollywood in disgust and spent the rest of her life in a job where she didn't need to disgrace herself probably won't be heard, even though she's more worthy of being heard.
"Anyone else share my suspicion that McGowan comes off as a little too saintly in all this?"
McGowan is no saint, and I strongly dislike her because of something totally unrelated to this, but I think it's very good that she's pushing the press and the culture to force Hollywood to clean up regarding the treatment of women. That push is long overdue.
If Messick committed suicide over Rose comign out with her story, I'm forced to believe that Messick is in fact guilty
So, please explain to me why i should be bothered that a guilty person decided that the proper punishment for her crimes was death?
I certainly wouldn't feel bad if Harvey, or any of his other enablers, committed suicide. So why should I care about this one?
'Rose McGowan verbally attacked by a trans woman for not being supportive enough of trans women, and Rose then going ballistic that anyone else might dare to try to outdo her in the outrage department. Meanwhile, McGowan's agent, who recalled McGowan's initial account of her tryst with HC as "consensual" has committed suicide. '
1: There's not such thing as a "trans woman." There are severely psychologically screwed up men who like to play dress up while they pretend to be Joan of Arc, or whatever it is that their delusion is
The fact that one of those nutcases came down and attacked Rose for not caring more about his "victimhood" (because, you know, people refuse to admit he's really Joan of Arc), and that she told him to STFU, is a great mark in her favor, NOT against her
2: Should she have gotten in the hot tub with him? No. Was tht a screwup on her part? Yes.
Does getting naked in a hot tub with a guy == consent to have sex? No. Does doing it make you more likely to be raped? Yes
3: She'd already been raped, which is to say, she'd already paid the admissions price to get into movies. Is it a mark against her that she made Harvey pay off his half of the deal, and give her roles? no. Why should it be?
4: Did she lead other women into Harvey's clutches? I don't know. If so, then that was wrong, and she should be criticized for it. But merely making movies w/ Harvey doesn't count
5: McGowan's agent's suicide is an indication that the agent believes she screwed up, and an indication of how guilty she feels about it. Sympathy level: 0
The take on this story Is not blaming McGowan, it's about questioning her credibility.
Young starlet sheds clothes, jumps into hot tub with naked, randy producer.... Young starlet's agents negotiate $130k payment from producer (no non-disclosure agreement). Young starlet becomes star, continues to make movies, etc., with producer's company. Young star poses for smiling photos with producer. Aging, fading star, no longer working with producer's company, years later, accuses producer of raping her on the night of the hot tub.
In a rational world does McGowan become the face of #metoo, or do people question her story? If they believe her story why aren't they questioning her silence and its impact on other women assaulted by Harvey?
Public life in America is becoming a soap opera unfit for serious, thoughtful people.
What Gregq said.
"El Borde de Noche"
Harvey's Irish Rose has a very specific niche in the entertainment world.
She was the full breasted dewey skinned Irish colleen that pasty faced small dicked Irishmen of all ages could lust after. As opposed to the hooked nosed Semitic seductresses like Natalie Portman or the greasy guinea charms of the Alyssa Milano.
This type of ingenue was embodied by Maureen O'Hara and continues to this day with Rooney Mara. Sadly Rose's ingenue days are far behind her as her tits are drooping and her porcelain skin is developing wattles and wrinkles that are not very flattering.
She did not take the very respectable route of being the sexy non nonsense mom or grandmom like another Dublin Doll Fionnula Flanagan who works all the time. That is the career Rosie can have and there are a ton of roles in that genre.
Instead she decided to go the shaven headed political harpy route. The Sinead O'Connor.
Everybody knows you don't go the full Sinead O'Connor.
Then your future is living alone in a motel room in New Jersey soliciting anal sex on the internet.
Come to think of it that is about the best Rosie can look forward to these days. Because I don't think any man would touch her with a ten foot pole.
The first role I remember her playing was the slutty girlfriend to a Back Street Boy in the movie "Southie" where she was typecast as an Boston Irish slutbag.
The last time I remember seeing her was playing a slutty wench in "Once Upon A Time."
Art imitates life.
There are different levels and methods of coercion but no one volunteers to take off their clothes and join Harvey in the hot tub....,Rose is more than a little flaky. Maybe that and not some gimlet eyed calculation motivated her to speak out. She's not the ideal rape victim, but she's the one who motivated the others to speak out.
MikeR said...
"Some of us have enough sense to stay away from compromising situations with our co-workers, and we are safe."
No one is safe when the witch-finder is in town.
hombre said:
“Public life in America is becoming a soap opera unfit for serious, thoughtful people.”
Or
“Public life in America Has become a soap opera unfit for serious, thoughtful people. A long time ago.
If somebody offered her a good enough role she would would get right back in that hot tub.
We have already established what she is.... now we are just haggling about the price.
We have established what Harvey Weinstein is, but there's still quite a lot of ambiguity about Rose McGowan. A lot of women have come forward and documented his mistreatment of them. Not a lot of Hollywood producers have come forward and claimed that she bartered sex for roles in their pictures........,Harvey has got to be the most successful serial rapist of all time. It's not just the numbers, but look at the women he assaulted: Some of the most connected, self confident and successful women in Hollywood. Harvey's career demonstrates that women react to sexual assault in wildly idiosyncratic and muted ways. Good for McGowan for blowing the whistle on him. It's not necessary to vouch for her character or motivation. There are other victims among Harvey's victims with greater character and purer motivation, but they remained quiet until McGowan blew the whistle instead of Harvey.
Peel (who are you?), I think the shaved head means genuine koo-koo. Not many women go that far. Even Emma Suckowitz didn't shave her head.
Which doesn't mean she's evil or wrong. What I would say is that whatever her experience or experiences were, they seem to have broken her.
BTW it's OK if I can't lust after her, she always chilled me, though objectively beautiful. Just don't get between me and Christina Hendricks, whatever her heredity. Yowza!
Blogger Bad Lieutenant said...
... BTW it's OK if I can't lust after her, she always chilled me, though objectively beautiful. Just don't get between me and Christina Hendricks, whatever her heredity. Yowza!
100% on McGowan you could always sense the crazy in her eyes. Like you, I always liked Strawberries and Cream.
Harvey's Irish Rose always had that cold Irish bitch aspect of her around her eyes. Not the blowsy bar maid style.
Maureen O'Hara had that imperious look too. It took a very strong male presence to stand up to her on screen.
Gillian Anderson does this bit to a T in The Fall.
A more subtle strong yet slutty style can be found in the work of one of my favorite Irish actress Maria Doyle Kennedy most recently in "Orphan Black." She is the real deal that Rosie can only wish to reach someday.
She needs to keep putting out if she wants to work in this town again.
Who am I?
The new boss.
Same as the old boss.
You won't get fooled again.
is the opposite of a Moby a Dick?
Where's Bette Midler's overwhelming guilt when we need it?
Bad Lieutenant said...Peel (who are you?), I think the shaved head means genuine koo-koo. Not many women go that far.
The shaved head means "slept with a Nazi." That she self-inflicted the look only makes her more like the latest victim.
hombre said...
The take on this story Is not blaming McGowan, it's about questioning her credibility.
Young starlet sheds clothes, jumps into hot tub with naked, randy producer....
Let's go to rewrite on that.
Young starlet gets trapped into a bad situation. She thought there were going to be other people around, then all of a sudden there weren't. We've got lots of stories from a lot of women about that situation. Look up Daryl Hannah talking about what he pulled with her post Kill Bill, and she was a big star.
So I'm pretty sure it's reasonable to believe that Rose got trapped, didn't run away screaming in time, and ended up getting screwed.
Young starlet's agents negotiate $130k payment from producer (no non-disclosure agreement). Young starlet becomes star, continues to make movies, etc., with producer's company. Young star poses for smiling photos with producer.
Young starlet can't make that night not happen. She can make him pay for it. Good for her for doing so.
If you can't pose for smiling pictures with someone you hate, you're not much of an actor / actress.
Aging, fading star, no longer working with producer's company, years later, accuses producer of raping her on the night of the hot tub.
He can no longer pay as he has been, so let's make him pay another way. And, in the process, let's also make sure he can't do it to anyone else, and you also put the screws to the biggest enablers of the system.
In a rational world does McGowan become the face of #metoo, or do people question her story? If they believe her story why aren't they questioning her silence and its impact on other women assaulted by Harvey?
How many testimonials did she give Harvey (I'm asking for real)? I'm pretty sure she didn't do a Judy Dench, and tattoo him on her butt
Let's consider this part (which was news to me):
Young starlet's agents negotiate $130k payment from producer (no non-disclosure agreement).
Solid rule: no one gets paid $130,000 after the fact for "consensual behavior".
Negotiated ahead of time? Sure!
After the fact? Well, maybe a "wow, that performance was awesome, I'll pay you $X for what you did, and 10X for you to do it another 10 times!" But he wasn't paying her $130k for the great acting job she did in his movie, he was paying her $130k for screwing in the hot tub. Which, so far as we know, did not generate any repeat performances.
He behaved badly, and tried to buy her off. I'm glad his attempt, eventually, failed
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