February 10, 2018

"But I’m being asked to give up on Charlie Rose, Kevin Spacey, Al Franken, Louis CK and Garrison Keillor, just to name a few. In a way, I’m starting to feel violated."

From the top-rated comment on "The Smearing of Woody Allen" (NYT):
Dylan Farrow’s memory could plausibly have been altered by the intense atmosphere surrounding the charges, and she may have a perfectly sincere but false memory of the events. It’s telling that her story changed during the initial investigation, but that she’s absolutely certain now, many years later.

Or maybe I’m wrong. If so, I’m deeply sorry. But I’m being asked to give up on Charlie Rose, Kevin Spacey, Al Franken, Louis CK and Garrison Keillor, just to name a few. In a way, I’m starting to feel violated. I don’t want to give up on Woody Allen, and it will take more than an unsubstantiated accusation to make me do so.
From the op-ed itself, which is by Bret Stephens:
Soon after Rolling Stone published a sensational — and, as it turned out, false — account of a gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity, Richard Bradley, the editor of Worth magazine, suspected that something was amiss.... [W]hat most stirred Bradley’s doubt was how perfectly the story played “into existing biases,” especially the sorts of biases Rolling Stone readers might harbor about fraternity life at Southern universities. Since the account of the rape “felt” true, it was easy to assume it was....
That makes me think of Michael Wolff. Remember him?

(By the way, you strike a chord, not a cord.)

201 comments:

1 – 200 of 201   Newer›   Newest»
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Bret Stephens is a a dud. He was a dud at the WSJ and now he is a dud at the NYT. The NYT has exactly two readable columnists Dowd and Douthat. And if you don't like Catholics - none. It's a fucking disgrace.

David Begley said...

In the last year we have learned that many top Dems were essentially sex criminals. We have also learned that many in the MSM are in the business of NOT reporting the news, attacking Trump and covering up. Finally we are finding out that a large crew in the Deep State were spying on Trump and were actively trying to get and spread dirt on Trump.

MayBee said...

I still don't get why we've had to give up Louis CK. I don't get why the people who had jobs and earned money because of him no longer can.

That one is the most baffling to me. I don't know why there isn't more push back.

Bay Area Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt Sablan said...

"I don't get why the people who had jobs and earned money because of him no longer can."

-- Here's my thoughts, and I could be wrong. It is more that now, in public, if you admit you still like his material, you're going to be looked at as "accepting" or "tolerating" his rude and crude behavior. I don't remember anyone actually accusing him of physically touching or harming them like Weinstein or others, but basically, he's been turned radioactive in a lot of circles. I never listened to him, I think maybe once or twice someone linked me to one of his riffs/acts, but if you actually still like his stuff, there's a lot of social pressure to acknowledge him as tainted goods.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Leftwing journalism = FEELZ.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Leftwing "journalism" = wishfacts is real!

Humperdink said...

Journalisming?

Yesterday we had Trump not releasing the Schiffless memo, government shutdown averted, debt increasing another trillion, CIA paying some Rooskie $100K for dirt on Trump, more DOJ officials resigning, Sen Mark Warner (D-No Paper Trail) colluding with the aforementioned Rooskies, ... et al. So what did MSLSD run all day? A story on Trump's most important adviser, Rob Porter. Never heard of the guy a week ago.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Modern journalism continues to give this guy a platform. His book is a tabloid.
Katy Turd believes that Trump and Nicki Haley are having an affair and there's nothing you can do about it.

did modern journos give "Clinton Cash" the respect it deserved?
Nope.

Modern journalism is democrat party. It's corrupt.

rhhardin said...

Women actually like hysteria. It sells. They take it up. It makes them feel at home.

Lloyd W. Robertson said...

Ronan Farrow has apparently always bought his sister Dylan's story about Woody completely--even if there has been more than one version of the story. Ronan worked hard to get the Weinstein story out--and that seemed to establish that progressives would go after people who were known to be progressives, liberal Democrats, even feminists. (Bill Cosby is arguably a somewhat Republican African American). As our host has suggested, one may doubt whether this would have happened if Hillary had been elected--there would have been reasons for progressives to keep on covering up instances of harassment in their ranks.

The possibility of sincere but false memories. Long before the internet, this was a disgraceful example of false news. A few people offered dramatic testimony that they suddenly, as adults, remembered being abused as children; this seemed to trigger a flood of such cases. I remember reading that Freud probably downplayed stories that patients told him about being abused as children, because if these stories were true, his theories about children fantasizing about sex in classical mythical terms were questionable. In short, we were supposed to believe this was a great example of modern enlightenment--now we can heal people who were damaged as children. Eventually there was serious criticism led by experts: one could have a long career in relevant fields without discovering a single adult who suddenly "recovered" memories of trauma; and conversely it is easy for a skilled therapist or interviewer to plant or suggest memories which can later be recovered. Oprah rode or led the wave in favour of finding more victims; to her credit, she at least later gave air time to critics of the wave.

Rob said...

It’s truthiness, back from before Stephen Colbert lost his mind.

Carol said...

The whole "pee-party" scenario sounded like it was made up by someone who watches a little too much porn.

They always assume everyone else is like them.

Professional lady said...

I stopped reading Dowd a long time ago. I realized how easy it is to just be snarky and tear people down. It got boring. Interesting and intelligent commentators have a coherent and consistent philosophy underlying their viewpoint and/or questions. Sometimes they even have something constructive to suggest.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

If someone accuses you of something, you cannot ever hold a job again. Welcome to leftwing America. Welcome to Katy Turd Maddow America.
Where Harvey Weisten and Bill Clinton walk. The statute of limitations never runs out on anyone else who is accused without proof or even a police report.

Tommy Duncan said...

"I’m starting to feel violated."

Violated indeed.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

It's rather telling how Michal Wolff is STILL making the rounds on the DNC-Hack networks.

David Begley said...

Katy Tur is a pure example of the loons and idiots employed at MSNBC. And the Left thinks Sean Hannity is a loon and idiot. Contrast and compare.

MayBee said...

Matthew Sablan said...

I agree completely with what you said, and I do think it's about fear of sounding like you think women should be treated like sex slaves if you aren't on board with shunning these guys.

But I still want us to find a way to get past that. I don't think this over-reaction on one side, and fear of reprisal for disagreeing with that side is a good trait in Americans right now.

MayBee said...

I would like to know if there is anybody who really thinks

- Louis CK should not be seen anywhere on tv or in movies
- Al Franken should not be allowed to be a US Senator

Is there anyone who truly agrees with those decisions? Or is everyone being bullied into letting those things happen. I think the latter.

tim in vermont said...

It's lent until Hillary rises again to the White House and Bill is on once again prowling the West Wing or hanging out with good friend Harvey. All will be forgiven, it will be a sex crimes Jubilee. It's a day worth fighting for ladies!

Tommy Duncan said...

Blogger MayBee said...

I would like to know if there is anybody who really thinks

- Louis CK should not be seen anywhere on tv or in movies
- Al Franken should not be allowed to be a US Senator


Yes, but for different reasons.

tim in vermont said...

Al Franken is Trump's whipping boy, in the original sense of the term, they all are.

Jon Burack said...

I own copies of "Usual Suspects," and "LA Confidential," two films I find enjoyable multiple times. Spacey is brilliant in both. (As I do not think he is in House of Cards, I have to say, though he was surely the best thing in it compared to the others.) I intend to watch these two films with him that I like yet again in the future, and will not shed a tear or feel a single pang of guilt as I do. I also like a lot of Woody and will never hesitate to watch what I think I will enjoy. Sorry. It's entertainment, that's all. Just as the entire #Metoo "movement" is nothing but entertainment for its participants. Each to his own poison, I guess. I like mine just fine, and frankly, I do not care to know a thing about the actual lives of the actors whose job it is to entertain me. I really don't know a thing about my plumber's life either, but he fixes the toilet. That's all I require.

Matt Sablan said...

Like I said, I'm not a fan of Louis CK, but if he's able to make a living doing TV or movies, good for him.

As for Al Franken, eh, I just wouldn't want to kick him out of the Senate for what he did purely because it makes the Senate less functional. There are mechanisms in place, and while he should be "allowed" to be in the Senate, I see no problem with the people of his state and his colleagues pressuring him to leave. He could have stayed, if he wanted to. With that cloud over his head, he probably wouldn't have survived a primary challenge (especially since he's not been a stellar Senator to begin with.) So, I'm willing to bet he's either going to retire, become an activist, get a Netflix/Hulu show going, or in some other way, go make a bunch of money. Kind of a win-win for him, really.

But, I also think rules need to be enforced on everyone. So, unfortunately, what I think/want doesn't matter. The current culture/rules requires both of them to be "given up," and if we want to renegotiate to saner rules I like, fine. I'd prefer that. But I don't see that happening any time soon.

Lucien said...

@May Bee:

I agree. Where are the Op-Eds and stories about the women of color who are single mothers and lost their high-paying jobs in entertainment because they were aon a Louis CK production, or one with Kevin Spacey in it, or even James Franco? Why haven't people like that been given any platforms?

And why is that people who claim you are entitled to "your truth" are so eager to accuse anyone who disagrees with them of using "alternative facts"?

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

We're drawing the line at Woody Allen, of all people?

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

The shunning of Harvey Weinstein (D - big phat democrat donor) ended pretty fast.

Hillary will be the nominee in 2020. She and Bill want it SOOOO bad. America, your punishment is waiting.

tim in vermont said...

If you don't believe that Franken should have lost his job for assumptions grabbing, how are you going to believe that Trump should lose his over a comment? The halcyon days of unquestioned double standards between Packwood and Clinton are,alas,gone.

tim in vermont said...

Fucking auto correct!

Curious George said...

"That makes me think of Michael Wolff. Remember him?
Michael Wolff asked on MSNBC about the factual errors in his Trump book.

His actual response: "If it makes sense to you, if it strikes a cord, if it rings true, it is true."

Do I remember him? Yep. I was reminded of him when our resident dullard #IngaKnew copy and pasted from his book yesterday.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

I woke up this AM thinking about some local news. A high school assistant coach was fired because he had sex with a 16 year old student.

I was thinking --why on earth would you risk your career? Answer: Because sex with a 16 year old girl.
The male brain must switch off, because sex with a 16 year old girl. It was consensual. The deal is, no way a 16 year old girl stays quiet about it. 16 year old girl is going to brag, or talk, or cry (whatever the experience) to her friends. boom. It's over. Lesson: keep your pecker in your pants. Ponder the logical conclusion.

tim in vermont said...

These guys all cheered along "When they came for conservatives," as the saying goes. Fuck 'email, let them swim in it.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Woody Allen's problem is that he married his stepdaughter. That's creepy enough for me. I don't get why that isn't enough and people focus on Dylan without considering his marriage. It's like that's off limits or something.

After that, why wouldn't Ronan believe his sister? Wouldn't you?

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Yes, fuck email. Especially the spam.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Woody marries his adopted daughter. How f-ed up is that? no matter. He's quirky, he's a democrat and we enjoy his movies.

Ann Althouse said...

One reason to stop at Woody Allen is that he has for decades written great roles for women. He’s incredibly woman-focused. You can’t say that about the other men.

tim in vermont said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Virgil Hilts said...

Re Jackie Coakley "Since the account of the rape “felt” true, it was easy to assume it was..." WTF - how did this "feel" true. Nine upper middle class guys at a great school like U VA conspire to gang rape a young coed as part of a frat ritual? To whom does this story "feel" true. A lot of us called "this has to be BS" within hours of the story coming out, just as we did with Duke LaCrosse.

Oso Negro said...

It is not just left-wing journalists who have adopted the credo "If it makes sense to you, if it strikes a cord, if it rings true, it is true." That is a great deal of the progressive movement these days. It means, in essence, that they have created a mental world that is no longer falsifiable by reality. It won't end until their lifestyles are no longer funded at public expense. I firmly believe that day of reckoning will come. But it will be a cataclysm that will sweep all before it. Trump, for all his entertainment value, is a cheerful spender of public funds. Our debt keeps going up and up. It just can't last. Post-socialist societies do not harbor the illusions that power American progressives. But getting there will be frightful.

Ann Althouse said...

Soon-Yi was never Woody’s srep-daughter or adopted daughter. She was the adopted daughter of his longtime girlfriend and sister to his son.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

OK, I stand corrected. Thank you.

Virgil Hilts said...

The Woody Allen abuse story does not feel true to me, Mia was an abusive mother (says her children) and sounds like a complete lunatic. I believe Woody Allen and would gladly bet $10,000 even money on his innocence if there was a way of proving it.

tim in vermont said...

The only one they want to give up over it is Trump. They don't mean any of it beyond an Aunt Polly style tongue clucking at the lovable scamps.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

OK - Thanks for the clarification on Woody. Still mighty weird.

Roughcoat said...

And if you don't like Catholics - none. It's a fucking disgrace.

You can always go to the Stormfront website. They don't like Catholics either.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Ann Althouse said...
One reason to stop at Woody Allen is that he has for decades written great roles for women. He’s incredibly woman-focused. You can’t say that about the other men.


I don't even agree with this. His movies are unwatchable, for most. A good role is something that people want to watch.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Roughcoat said...
You can always go to the Stormfront website. They don't like Catholics either.


We have a winner.

Phil 314 said...

I still like and will continue to watch "Chinatown", "LA Confidential", "Manhattan", "Shakespeare in Love", etc.

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

Yeah, ARM must LOVE the Supreme Court. Sotomayor, especially.

Fernandinande said...

But I’m being asked

Aww, poor little guy!

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

"Soon after Rolling Stone published a sensational — and, as it turned out, FALSE — account of a gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity..."

The entire leftwing progressive machine wanted the false rape story to be true. So - it was true. I'm all but certain "journalists" list Katy Turd(D) certainly wanted to believe it.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bob Boyd said...

"I still don't get why we've had to give up Louis CK. I don't know why there isn't more push back."

It wasn't pushing that got Louis CK in trouble. It was pulling.

Michael K said...

In Decision Theory, Confirmation Bias is probably the most powerful and dangerous mental heuristic.

It happens all the time in Emergency Rooms. God help the AIDS patent who comes in with a fever and cough during a flu epidemic.

The old expression is "If you hear hoofbeats, you don't look out the window expecting to see a zebra."

Zebras don't do well in those circumstances.

Right now we have a national hysteria going on. It is not that different from the "Recovered Memories" and Day Care hysterias.

Bob Boyd said...

Maybe Louis CK and Franken and Garrison Keillor slunk away grateful that worse stuff hadn't come out.

Ryan said...

Althouse had obviously never had to chop wood.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Wish-facts be true. It's on ongoing leftwing phenomenon.

What explains the FBI's deep faith in Trump dossier author Christopher Steele?


One of the most remarkable takeaways from the new documents released in the Trump-Russia investigation is the degree to which FBI officials were determined to believe dossier author
Christopher Steele — even after it became clear he had lied to them.

...

n part, the FBI trusted Steele because it had to; the bureau had no other evidence that would have sufficed to win a warrant to wiretap Page. "The application appears to contain no additional information corroborating the dossier allegations against Mr. Page," the Grassley-Graham referral said, "although it does cite to a news article that appears to be sourced to Mr. Steele's dossier as well." At another point in the referral, Grassley and Graham wrote that the FBI "relied more heavily on Steele's credibility than on any independent verification or corroboration for his claims."

Trumpit said...

Dylan Farrow's allegations predated the recent sexual harassment (sexual abuse/assault, etc.) scandal. Each case stands or falls on its own merits. I believe Dylan (she is believable), and she is brave to finally confront her biological father. Woody Allen is not Roman Polanski, Harvey Weinstein, or Donald Trump. But he allegedly molested his own daughter. I don't think it went so far as penetration, but I haven't studied the case carefully. He married his adopted daughter, which indicates a pattern of lecherous behavior when it comes to females that are around him. Woody is a physically ugly man, so his sex appeal has to be based on something other than good looks. People who slam Dylan, belong in the slammer. Okay, maybe not, but it made for a good sentence with which to end my comment

Sebastian said...

"I’m starting to feel violated. I don’t want to give up on Woody Allen"

#MeToo or #NotMe: what's a good prog to do?

Get Trump, that's what: then all will be well with the world, and #MeTooers can dream pleasant dreams of a world without mean men, where mothers sing McKinnonite lullabies to their babies.

bgates said...

Yes, but for different reasons.

Agreed. Al Franken might as well say, "yes, I assaulted those women, but convicted felons are an essential part of my constituency", and if Louis CK says "yes I masturbated in front of those women, but the whole time I was just thinking about hate-f*cking Sarah Palin" he'd be back on tv by the end of the day.

Having their careers end the way they did is like nailing Capone on tax evasion.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Al Franken's step-down was a political calculation. Nothing more. Everyone on the political spectrum from left to right understand that he, at most, behaved badly, but certainly he never assaulted anyone.

Roughcoat said...

Yeah, well, I don't feel at all sorry for all these lefty/progressive entertainers and politicians who've been crushed by the Reckoning. They never sent people like me any bouquets, if you get my drift. E.g., the Duke La Crosse team. Etc., etc., etc.

As the King of Saxony said upon being forced to abdicate in 1918:

"Sie haben ihren eigenen Mist gebaut, jetzt lasst sie darin sitzen!"

So let it be written ... so let it be done.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Nobody is being asked to give up, they are being told to take down.

By me.

Because I should have been the one, single now mind you, person with all the poontang at my feet.

Now everybody, every single last damn one, is gonna have to make amends until I reach a state of certain satisfaction.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

It's all a giant cluster-F to get Trump. No doubt. It is fun watching the left eat their own. But at some point soon, the witch hunt will fall down the thought-crime worm-hole. Katy Couric's wet dreams of a socialist-communist police state where kids cannot play video games between midnight and 6AM will come true.

Diogenes of Sinope said...

I do not agree politically with most of the men vilified and punished in today's abused women madness. I for one will stick with the standards spelled out in the US Constitution for crime and punishment and not the new standard of uncorroborated accusations.

David Begley said...

Woody Allen is a creep and I haven’t watched one of his movies in decades.

Inga...Allie Oop said...

Most of Woody Allen’s movies are unwatchable. Nothing about Woody Allen is admirable.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

So much pressure to worship Hillarywood

Resist.

Ryan said...

Woody Allen is a great filmmaker. Since when do artists need to be moral people??

Wince said...

That makes me think of Michael Wolff. Remember him?

Funny, Michael Wolff makes me think of Fred Armisen's impression.

Mika: Baby races...is that real?

Wolff: (shrugs) Yeah?

Diogenes of Sinope said...

In the state I live in I cannot refuse to hire an ex-convict with a felony conviction unless my company can prove that the conviction would materially affect and disqualify the person from the particular job. For example, a convicted embezzler handling cash, a convicted drunk driver as a school bus driver....

But, in the current hysteria, it's perfectly acceptable to fire a person based on allegations with no evidence, no arrests, no charges, no trials and no convictions??

NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...

I don't like connecting art with the personal lives of artists. Everyone is a creep if you look hard enough. Conversely, how good the art is doesn't excuse the artist.

I suspect that Shakespeare's personal life was awful. His anonymity saves him from infamy.

William said...

If I were a juror in a courtroom, I would probably not vote to convict Woody Allen. If, however, in the unlikely event that I ever became an anonymous commenter on a blog, I would comment that there's a quite a lot of evidence leading one to believe that Allen is guilty.......Allen is a celebrity. He has put his life in the public domain. That especially includes his sex life which was an important part of all his many semi autobiographical films. The zeitgeist of those films does not point to his innocence but neither do they conclusive evidence of his guilt. Allen's guilt or innocence will remain speculative, but his predicament is of his own making.

Humperdink said...

Virgil Hilts said: "Mia .... sounds like a complete lunatic."

David Begley said: "Woody Allen is a creep .."

I agree on both counts. That must have been some marriage. It's a wonder their kids are still alive.

Roughcoat said...

I suspect that Shakespeare's personal life was awful.

Based on what evidence?

Oso Negro said...

Blogger Ann Althouse said...
Soon-Yi was never Woody’s srep-daughter or adopted daughter. She was the adopted daughter of his longtime girlfriend and sister to his son.

2/10/18, 8:19 AM


Yep. But it is a better smear the other way. People used to marry cousins! And the whole hatred of older male/younger female relations is a product of second wave feminism. I have been re-watching the first season of the Beverly Hillbillies (which I HIGHLY recommend to all Althouse readers as a cultural artifact) Each episode contains enough politically incorrect humor to trigger an entire university. Examples: 1) in an episode where Elly is to be paired off with Sonny Drysdale, Granny quips "she's been ready since she was 14! What we're wondering is if you are ready!" 2) Jed's grandfather is reported to have married an 18-year-old girl when he was 97 and have outlived her because she was worn out bearing children 3) there are continual references to girls becoming old maids at the age of 18. Let's remember - The Beverly Hillbillies was THE number one show in 1963 and the humor was never thought to be "edgy", "dark", or "daring".

Bob Boyd said...

Nobody pushed Louis CK out.
Louis CK pulled himself out.

tim in vermont said...

I always liked Woody Allen movies, and will continue to like them. What have been ruined for me are the Mirimax movies, because I just can’t watch those pretty young starlets in the same way. Now Harvey is in the corner masturbating into the ficus tree every time one of their pretty faces comes on the screen, and he drags in Bill and Hillary to cheer him on. Room gets too crowded with their deplorable shades dancing around the place.

tim in vermont said...

She was the adopted daughter of his longtime girlfriend and sister to his son.

Why does the song “I am my own grand pa” come to mind?

Fernandinande said...

Roughcoat said...
You can always go to the Stormfront website. They don't like Catholics either.


Actually, Stormfront does like Catholics, e.g.:

"It is undeniable that there is a very strong Catholic connection to National Socialism. This movement started in Bavaria where virtually all of the earliest party members were members this faith."

tim in vermont said...

Waiting for woody to film one of his sumptuous opening scenes with this playing

Now, many many years ago
When I was twenty three
I was married to a widow
Who was pretty as could be

This widow had a grown-up daughter
Had hair of red
My father fell in love with her
And soon the two were wed

This made my dad my son-in-law
And changed my very life
My daughter was my mother
'Cause she was my father's wife

To complicate the matters
Even though it brought me joy
I soon became the father
Of a bouncing baby boy

My little baby then became
A brother-in-law to dad
And so became my uncle
Though it made me very sad

For if he was my uncle
That also made him the brother
Of the widow's grown-up daughter
Who, of course, was my step-mother

I'm my own grandpa
I'm my own grandpa
It sounds funny I know
But it really is so
I'm my own grandpa

William said...

The only Hollywood scandal that truly shocked me concerned James Franco. That low life removed a woman's plastic shield during the filing of an orgy scene. If a woman cannot feel safe and inviolate while filming an orgy scene, what kind of society have we become.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

Grassley-Graham Memo Affirms Nunes Memo — Media Yawns

Democrat hack press yawn. Doesn't fit the narrative.

Humperdink said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David said...

Katie Tur is perhaps the most annoying person on television. Reeks of smug.

MayBee said...

Bob Boyd- hahahahah stoooooop!

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

I look through stupid MSM magazines like Vanity Fair (which is 100% leftwing) and Cosmo - while I wait for a haircut.

The magazines are FILLED with photos of famous celebrities standing around wearing expensive glittery gowns grasping awards ceremony statues. I laugh. The absurdity is lost on most people. America is drunk giving these people who play dress-up and cry on Q for a living - these people who supposedly "entertain" us - endless awards, adulation, and hero worship.

These jerks and hypocrites are not heroes.

The only person in Hillarywoodland to understand this is Clint Eastwood.

tim in vermont said...

It would be pretty funny if Weinstien did a remake of The Scarlet Letter.

Annie C. said...

MayBee said...
I would like to know if there is anybody who really thinks

- Louis CK should not be seen anywhere on tv or in movies
- Al Franken should not be allowed to be a US Senator

Is there anyone who truly agrees with those decisions? Or is everyone being bullied into letting those things happen. I think the latter.

....

I don't know about Louis C.K., but from what I read of Franken, when she complained about the tongue he tried to slip her, he then retaliated by treating her poorly and limited her time on stage.

If that is true, and I don't know that, but if it is, that's a bonafide definition of workplace harrassment. Denying work, or promotion, or workplace camaraderie because your advances were spurned. So should his workplace standing suffer? Yeppers.

IgnatzEsq said...

Doesn't a piano strike a chord by literally striking cords?

MayBee said...

Annie C-

Do you think Frankin stands out in the US Congress with this poor behavior? I suspect no.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

When Leo Tolstoy was young, he had frequent sex with the female serfs on his estate without worrying about their consent. Late in life, he posed as a saintly character while continuing to treat his wife like crap.

He was a dreadful misogynist and hypocrite - who created Anna Karenina. Life is complicated.

I stopped reading biographies of writers and artists a long time ago because so many of them were such awful people that it depressed me.

Annie C. said...

Agreed MayBee. Fear of lawsuits tamped down a lot of that behavior in the corporate world, but Hollywood, and its ugly step-cousin, Politics, are lagging indicators.

Michael K said...

One of the most remarkable takeaways from the new documents released in the Trump-Russia investigation is the degree to which FBI officials were determined to believe dossier author
Christopher Steele — even after it became clear he had lied to them.


Even The Nation, of all places, is getting suspicious of the FBI.

Listening almost daily to the legion of former US intel officers condemn Russiagate skeptics ever more loudly and persistently in the media, we may wonder if they are increasingly fearful it will become known that Russiagate was mostly Intelgate. For that we will need a new bipartisan Senate Church Committee of the 1970s, which investigated and exposed misdeeds by US intelligence agencies and which led to important reforms that are no longer the preventive measures against abuses of power they were intended to be. (Ideally, everyone involved would be granted amnesty for recent misdeeds, ending all talk of “jail time,” on the condition they now testify truthfully.) But such an inclusive investigation of Intelgate would require the support of Democratic members of Congress, which no longer seems possible.

The torpedo has acquired its target, even though the target is the DNC ship that first launched it at Trump.

chuck said...

> a new bipartisan Senate Church Committee

I don't think that is possible, there are so few Democrats with even a shred of integrity that it would be impossible to find them.

tim in vermont said...

It was only a matter of time before some “progressives,” at least realized that they were on the wrong side.

Roy Lofquist said...

There's the SOB who was driving the Cord. He just blew through the light.

https://www.amazon.com/Cord-Automobiles-L-29-Photo-Archive/dp/1583881026

Matt said...

Why do supposedly "adult" humans develop such personal relationships with people they don't actually know, have never and will never meet? People whose every interaction that their fans see in the movies or on TV is scripted and made-up to make them look as flattering as possible?

It is depressing to live in a society with so many people who never seem to outgrow junior-high-level emotional maturity.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"Even The Nation, of all places, is getting suspicious of the FBI."

It has been for a while. Or at least Stephen Cohen has been. Cohen, a Russia expert and Nation contributor, has been a guest on Tucker Carlson's show a number of times. As the article points out, he coined the term "Intelgate" in early 2017. Cohen was quick to point out how ridiculous the dossier was as soon as it came out.

It's a strange world when a conservative Fox News host and a writer for the Nation are in agreement about the corruption of the intel services, the Democrats, and the media. Cohen has said the Russians must really be relishing the way in which the Democrats have played right into their hands.

WK said...

Cords are more typically used in lynchings.....

Trumpit said...

"It was only a matter of time before some “progressives,” at least realized that they were on the wrong side."

No, you're on the "wrong side" for being a reactionary, and for backing Donald Trump, a loathsome person.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

When Leo Tolstoy was young, he had frequent sex with the female serfs on his estate without worrying about their consent. Late in life, he posed as a saintly character while continuing to treat his wife like crap.

He was a dreadful misogynist and hypocrite - who created Anna Karenina. Life is complicated.


Maybe he imagined women could be more ennobled than those with whom he was most familiar.

I don't find that unlikely at all. I find it plausible and extremely supposable.

For instance, the more I interact with exiledonmainstreet the more I desire the company of a classy woman.

FIDO said...

Picking and choosing who is 'really' a bad person and who is not. This is the norm: Republican accusations are 'always' true and accusations against Liberals are 'up for intense scrutiny'.

Honestly, I'm amazed at how many they have taken down on their side without a quibble so far.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"One of the most remarkable takeaways from the new documents released in the Trump-Russia investigation is the degree to which FBI officials were determined to believe dossier author
Christopher Steele — even after it became clear he had lied to them."
It has been observed that even after the FBI dismissed Steele for being unreliable, he was described as reliable by Comey in the FBI's FISA application.
I want to see the FISA warrant application, because the system is broken -- e.g., not working as it is intended to work, if every communication you have ever made can be scrutinized by the feds based on the hearsay of a person who hates you.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Put Bill Clinton alongside Donald Trump. Tell me why Trump is loathsome Bill Clinton is not. Then repeat with Donald Trump & Hillary Clinton.

Comanche Voter said...

Ah you need to read Robin Abcarian in today's LA Times. It's a nasty job, so I did it for you. She totally buys into the malarkey spread by Adam Schiff. She wants to believe--therefore she believes.

Robert Cook said...

"Woody Allen's problem is that he married his stepdaughter."

Actually, she wasn't his step-daughter. Woody and Mia were never married, and they never lived together. As Woody put it, she was his girlfriend's adopted daughter.

This is a small distinction, perhaps, and I do not absolve Woody from the betrayal of his girlfriend that this relationship certainly was. However, even small distinctions are worth making.

That said, I think Woody is entirely self-serving, and ever since that whole incident, I have been put off of my prior interest in his films, and I don't bother to see any of them anymore.

Comanche Voter said...

Ah Michael K, that's an acoustic torpedo gone wrong--and circling back to the noise made by the screws of the SS Hillary Rodham Clinton, pride of the DNC submarine fleet.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...

I bet Katy Tur-d has a shrine next to her bed that consists of images of Hillary and Bill Clinton and Harvey Weinstein.

Because it's a wish-fact, it's true.

Bill said...

I suspect that Shakespeare's personal life was awful.

Assuming he wrote all that's attributed to him, I wonder if Shakespeare had time for a private life.

Robert Cook said...

"Woody Allen is a great filmmaker. Since when do artists need to be moral people??"

They don't, but sometimes it helps to know little or nothing about an artist's private life.

Robert Cook said...

"...how good the art is doesn't excuse the artist."

No, but that's not important to anyone not personally acquainted with the artist. What's important is the art.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

For instance, the more I interact with exiledonmainstreet the more I desire the company of a classy woman.

2/10/18, 10:13 AM

Certainly. Because, as your numerous comments here illustrate, you're a really classy guy.

Guildofcannonballs said...

"It is depressing to live in a society with so many people who never seem to outgrow junior-high-level emotional maturity."

That is very mature, thank you. If only girls back in junior high would have complained/nagged about a lack of maturity, just imagine how well off we all would be now.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Cord could refer of course-wise alsoly to how many cords of wood a boom Chuck cuck could indeed cuck if a boom Chuck cuck could cuck wood.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...


"Maybe he imagined women could be more ennobled than those with whom he was most familiar."

Like the many serfs he basically raped? Tolstoy acted no differently than an American slaveower who raped the female slaves on his plantation. Why give him a pass? Because the women Tolstoy raped were white?

I agree with Robert Cook about this:

Robert Cook said...

"Woody Allen is a great filmmaker. Since when do artists need to be moral people??"

They don't, but sometimes it helps to know little or nothing about an artist's private life.

2/10/18, 10:34 AM

One can still enjoy Tolstoy's work without harboring any illusions about his character. The same is true of Allen.

buwaya said...

Shakespeare was an amateur compared to some of his Spanish contemporaries. Lope de Vega wrote something like 500 produced plays.
Besides 3000 sonnets, and novels, and etc.
Others in that era wrote at a similarly blistering rate.
The reason is that the Spanish market for the theater was orders of magnitude greater than in England. There was more theater, as an industry, there, at that time, than all the rest of Europe altogether.
There was so much Spanish literature produced at that time that much of the rest of Europe spent a couple of centuries cribbing off it.
The modern stature of any given body of literature depends on economic and political circumstances.

Can Of Cheese for Hunter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James Graham said...

I miss Charley Rose.

We need someone who can interview rock stars, CEOs of major oil companies and novelists.

Amanpour? Don't think so.

Come back Charley!

buwaya said...

I don't think people have an imagined personal relationship with writers, really. Tolstoy is words on a page. Shakespeare is, at best, words spoken by an actor who isn't Shakespeare.
They are just names attached to text.

These other fellows are personal because they are visible as persons, they are actors or performers. They are mentioned in the news and the gossip pages, with photographs. They are celebrities.

Danno said...

After someone takes Wolff to the woodshed and beats him (with a piece of firewood taken from a cord-size bundle) to within an inch of his life, that might justify using "stikes a cord".

Danno said...

strikes

Robert Cook said...

"Shakespeare was an amateur compared to some of his Spanish contemporaries. Lope de Vega wrote something like 500 produced plays."

Are you comparing quantity or quality? Were Lope de Vega's many works as good as or better than Shakespeare's?

bagoh20 said...

Nearly all the #Metoo women, whether admitted or not, have kept quiet till now because they made a personal decision to protect their careers rather than expose their assailant. People who decide to keep consuming the art of the assailants are doing similarly. They are making a decision to keep what they get from the assailant rather than punish him, and lose it. These consumers have much less ability to punish him than his victims, but they get far less in return as well. I'd say it's the same kind of transaction. You are saying "yea, he is foul, but I'd rather get what I get than take a stand" - just like his victims did. After you get tired of enjoying his art, and you don't really need it anymore, you can then speak out and boycott them. See, you can have it all, but accept what you are doing honestly. You just don't really care enough to make a sacrifice. You can wait till the price goes down.

rcocean said...

You can strike a cord of wood.

Mark said...

All this crying for the accused and "aren't we being to hard on them?" skepticism about some of the accusers is a bit late. This stuff has been going on for decades -- only before it was a less-favored sector of society that was being targeted and smeared and for whom it was demanded that there be zero-tolerance, so that even the whiff of a suspicion of an allegation was enough to destroy the accused forever.

glenn said...

“By the way, you strike a chord, not a cord.”

You spelling Nazis give me a pane.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Ludwig Van had his domestic problems too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1xRjNIGSsI

rcocean said...

Burt Stephens seems to know the right people. Somehow he got a top job at WSJ despite supporting Hillary and then jumped right over to the NYT and got their coveted "Phony Conservative" slot.

Like Bill Kristol each wrong step seems to make him more popular with the Publishers and editors.

rcocean said...

Jennifer Rubin is another one. No matter how much she lies about being a conservative or how crazy her writing is, the WaPo loves her.

rcocean said...

Woody is 82 - its time we ALL gave him up.

Why has our pop culture petrified?

Mark said...

As for Al Franken who, let's face it, doggonit, really isn't good enough or smart enough or, doggonit, people really don't like him --

Sure, constitutionally he's "allowed" to be in the Senate. But he first took office only by very likely stealing the election with fraudulent votes, and by having an opponent who was smooth as a Ken doll and didn't fight him on it.

rcocean said...

"degree to which FBI officials were determined to believe dossier author
Christopher Steele — even after it became clear he had lied to them."

You can add Rosenstein to that list, since he signed off on the FISA warrant.

rcocean said...

Glenn:

You can be a pane in the glass sometimes.

YoungHegelian said...

@RC,

Are you comparing quantity or quality?

Well, there was the famous play by Lope De Vega Toledo Dick Parade. Does that count?

It certainly compares with the Bard's "Gay Boys in Bondage".

buwaya said...

Tolstoy was a traditional man with a modern education.
An uncomfortable fit.
I doubt his behavior was in any way unusual, for a chieftain, which he was, throughout human existence.
And he spent most of his military career among genuine barbarians.
Traditional Russian/Slavic social and economic arrangements were fundamentally prehistoric and pagan. This is a typical comment. Christianity had not modified them anywhere near as much as it had in western Europe.

Unknown said...

A cord can be used to do the striking... whipping to be more precise!
Pianos are fillled with wound strings, I guess cord is an acceptable substitute if needs be.
I can’t pass judgement on disputes between famous people with larger-than-life lives when there’s no supporting evidence... people dramatize their own lives all the time and I suspect it’s an even greater likelihood among highly paid pretenders.
People seem very happy to go with their gut feelings based on watching video performances. Authenticity is 2D in the 21st century!
-willie

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Certainly. Because, as your numerous comments here illustrate, you're a really classy guy.

Looks like someone certainly missed the point.

buwaya said...

Good question on literary merit - Shakespeare vs Lope de Vega. I have no opinion, and I'm not equipped to answer. You are asking about, mainly, the qualities of language, and this requires appreciating nuances of two very different languages.

If you were to try this properly it would require an excellent education in both worlds.

Roughcoat said...

Fernandistein @9:07:

You're referring to the early Nazi movement. That's not what Stormfront has on offer. Stormfront is a white-supremacist Aryan movement which is firmly Protestant Christian and decidedly anti-Catholic. In the event, by the late 1930s the Nazis had turned against the Catholic Church -- and Christianity in general.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Nabakov told his English lit students that knowing the biography of a story's writer was not important to the task of appreciating his or her work.

Nevertheless, I find it more and more difficult to give my custom to people I know would hate me. I won't watch the second Stranger Things Netflix series after David Harbour went off on an anti-Trump tirade at the SAG awards. I imagine that if we were in the same room & he knew my political leanings he would punch me.

Fabi said...

"Journalisming" -- that's a keeper.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Like the many serfs he basically raped? Tolstoy acted no differently than an American slaveower who raped the female slaves on his plantation. Why give him a pass? Because the women Tolstoy raped were white?

Oh, I get it!

So you're saying they were beta females.

She-cucks.

Makes sense.

Fabi said...

"It's lent until Hillary rises again to the White House and Bill is on once again prowling the West Wing or hanging out with good friend Harvey. All will be forgiven, it will be a sex crimes Jubilee. It's a day worth fighting for ladies!"

Well played!

Rusty said...

Robert Cook said...

"Woody Allen is a great filmmaker. Since when do artists need to be moral people??"

"They don't, but sometimes it helps to know little or nothing about an artist's private life."

Which is why I was a little annoyed when Pynchon started writing for the Rolling Stone.

Drago said...

rcocean: "Jennifer Rubin is another one. No matter how much she lies about being a conservative or how crazy her writing is, the WaPo loves her"

Fox Butterfield call your office!

WaPo loves Rubin because she lies about being a conservative and how crazy her writing is.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"Are you comparing quantity or quality? Were Lope de Vega's many works as good as or better than Shakespeare's?"

Dude, they were in Spanish! Who knows?

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Makes sense.

2/10/18, 11:39 AM

Nothing about your comment makes any sense whatsoever, Ritmo.


Charlie said...

How many wrong turns do you have to make in life to get to the phrase "I miss Al Franken"?

William said...

Tolstoy was never held legally accountable for his rapes. He did, however, hold himself accountable. There's a late novel called Resurrection. In that novel, the protagonist tries to make amends to a servant girl he raped. The girl tells him that much as he used her body for his own physical needs, he is now using her soul for his own spiritual needs. It's a damning indictment......Hardy used a similar plot turn in Tess of the D'Ubervilles. Polanski made a fine movie of this novel.....,, Make of this what you will. I find it confusing.

William said...

I'd put Tolstoy in the same class as Shakespeare. Woody Allen not so much. Tolstoy was haunted and tormented by his past crimes and misdemeanors. Woody Allen not so much.

Yancey Ward said...

Shorter version of the top-rated comment:

"Since it is looking like no one but us progressives care about the accusations against Trump, I won't try to fool people that I actually care about such stuff any longer."

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Nothing about your comment makes any sense whatsoever, Ritmo.

You believe in a dominance hierarchy.

Those in charge can do to those beneath them whatever they want.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

William said...
I'd put Tolstoy in the same class as Shakespeare. Woody Allen not so much. Tolstoy was haunted and tormented by his past crimes and misdemeanors. Woody Allen not so much.


Yes. He comes across as borderline autistic rather than as fully functional man, which heightens suspicions rather than allay them.

Left Bank of the Charles said...

When someone on the planet can call you Uncle Grandpa, you’re at least a little bit creepy. But you knew that you dropped your last name and starting using a nickname for your pecker as your first name - and not really a first name, a title that goes with your real first name Allen. Still, I love that Althouse is married to Woody’s filmography. Like Hillary, she stands by her man, even though it’s a lost cause.

But I think we should drill down on the assertion that Woody Allen has created great roles for women. What is a great role for women? How does what we call a great role for women differ from a great role for men? I think men would define a great role as one that pays well. If the role carries the movie, that counts too. Awards help to the extent they advance the career. Beca Mitchell as played by Anna Kendrick in the Pitch Perfect movies is a great role. So is Amy Mitchell as played by Mila Kunis in the Bad Moms movies. But would we call those great roles for women?

So what great roles for women has Woody Allen created? There’s Annie Hall, but perhaps Dianne Keaton should get some of the credit for that.

Narayanan said...

How many Catholics Christian know Augustine's private life?

Narayanan said...

Or most of the world about Gandhi's?

Lewis Wetzel said...

"You believe in a dominance hierarchy.
Those in charge can do to those beneath them whatever they want."
Like putting words in their mouth?

Mark said...

I've long said that Augustine is a perfect patron saint for today.

Mark said...

How many people know that the Church is actually a field hospital for the spiritually broken and wounded, particularly self-inflicted wounds?

Dr Weevil said...

Is Lope de Vega as great as Shakespeare? Only someone equally fluent in English and Spanish and equally familiar with both their oeuvres would be in a position to tell, and I doubt there are more than a dozen people in the world who've actually read even half of Lope de Vega's 300-500 plays. (I assume there are a few Lope specialists in the Spanish-speaking world who have done so, but how many also read Shakespeare fluently?)

However, when it comes to pre-1800 drama that is still staged, Lope is one of the few authors you're likely to see on stage in English translation. I've only seen one of his plays (a grad-student production of Fuenteovejuna) but (a) it was quite good, even in a grad-student production, and (b) the only other non-English post-classical pre-1800 plays I've ever seen live have been one German (Schiller's Wallenstein) and three French (two productions each of Moliere's Tartuffe and whatsisname's Cyrano de Bergerac, one of Moliere's That Scoundrel Scapino), zero Italian, zero from any other European country. I'd like to see more Lope de Vega, and maybe some Calderón, the second-most-admired Golden Age dramatist.

Also Lope de Vega may have been uniquely productive - Cervantes called him a monster of nature - but writing more plays than Shakespeare (34 + halves of 3 more) is not all that rare. Among the Greeks, Aristophanes wrote 44, Aeschylus 70+, Euripides 90+, and Sophocles 120 or so, and they were all prosperous enough they didn't have to write by the page or crank out crap for money. They wrote because they had something to say. There's nothing the least bit inept or sloppy or dashed-off about any of the ones that survive by any of the four (42 out of 320+). Whether Lope's massive output included pot-boiler crap as well as the few titles that are still staged, or whether, like Shakespeare's, even his worst plays are pretty damned good, I do not know.

Dr Weevil said...

Should have checked Wikipedia first. Apparently Lope de Vega actually wrote 1800 secular plays and 400 shorter religious dramas, of which we know 637 titles, and roughly 450 survive. Scholars are said to consider 80 of them masterpieces - a low percentage, but an impressive total. "Monster of nature" seems about right.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Blue Jasmine was great. Blanchet was in LOTR so gets lifetime admiration.

Guildofcannonballs said...

I said it was lazy for folks or professors to see BJ based on my bias against Allen, but when I saw it a few months ago I liked it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I also like Cate Blanchett and as a consequence have tried to watch Blue Jasmine at least twice. Completely unwatchable.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

"You believe in a dominance hierarchy.
Those in charge can do to those beneath them whatever they want."
Like putting words in their mouth?


I prefer putting penises in the mouths of cucks like you. Lol.

All joking aside, she does believe in a dominance hierarchy. Her fondness for applying the Greek alphabet to every social perception she asserts is direct evidence of that.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Ritmo said:
You believe in a dominance hierarchy.

Those in charge can do to those beneath them whatever they want.

2/10/18, 12:05 PM

I am afraid you have mistaken me for a Hollywood liberal.

Lewis Wetzel said...

"Blogger Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I also like Cate Blanchett and as a consequence have tried to watch Blue Jasmine at least twice. Completely unwatchable."

That is marvelous. Blue Jasmine is a near perfect aristotelian tragedy. Allen hits all of Aristotle's points. The catharsis is magnificent. The film starts with Jasmine talking to herself in public out of narcissism or excessive self-regard, and ends with Jasmine talking to herself as a crazy lady sitting on a park bench. We see each step she takes as her pride drives her to make decisions that destroy the basis for her pride.

Lewis Wetzel said...

All joking aside, she does believe in a dominance hierarchy. Her fondness for applying the Greek alphabet to every social perception she asserts is direct evidence of that.
Power is the ability to define others. You overreach yourself, TR.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

William, I will have to look up "Resurrection." I confess, I haven't read Tolstoy since my college days and that work was not on my radar.

I read "War and Peace" when I was 17 and was quite proud of that accomplishment, especially since I didn't cheat by skipping over Tolstoy's long philosophical digressions. Of course, reading them and understanding them are two different things.

And yes, I did not mean to imply that Allen is anywhere near Tolstoy in terms of artistic achievement.

Mark said...

I've long said that Augustine is a perfect patron saint for today.

2/10/18, 12:31 PM

I believe you're correct.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

I am afraid you have mistaken me for a Hollywood liberal.

Do Hollywood liberals use Greek letters and words like "cuck" to indicate a fixation on thinking certain people superior and others inferior?

bolivar di griz said...

I haven't investigated lope De Vegas full oevre, but ill take your word for it.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Lewis Wetzel said...
The catharsis is magnificent.


I'll have what he's smoking.

Just to complete the marvellousness here, I didn't like Annie Hall either, and I can see why people might be moved to defend Polanski.

Lewis Wetzel said...

Grand Inquisitor TR likes to pass judgment on other peoples passing judgment on people.

dustbunny said...

William said “Tolstoy was haunted and tormented by his past crimes and misdemeanors. Woody not so much.” Woody made the film Crimes and Misdemeanors about a man haunted by his past, it was a fascinating movie. He also made Match Point, about a man who got away with killing a bothersome woman. He certainly thought a lot about the subject of crime and justice for someone not tormented.

bolivar di griz said...

I liked his earlier work, when he funny and neurotic, take the money, sleeper bananas.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

Do Hollywood liberals use Greek letters and words like "cuck" to indicate a fixation on thinking certain people superior and others inferior?

2/10/18, 1:29 PM

No, but one of them did refer to Harvey Weinstein as "God."

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

bolivar di griz said...
I liked his earlier work, when he funny


I didn't like those either.

Big Mike said...

I don't like connecting art with the personal lives of artists. Everyone is a creep if you look hard enough. Conversely, how good the art is doesn't excuse the artist.

Very good point. Are Caravaggio’s paintings less of a masterpiece because he was a murderer?

(Interestingly enough, an art historian once showed me evidence that Caravaggio suffered from anosmia. Coincidence?)

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

"Conversely, how good the art is doesn't excuse the artist."

Remember Norman Mailer's pet criminal, Jack Abbott? Mailer said "Art is worth a little risk." Too bad some poor waiter had to pay for that "risk" with his life.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Ok, so one person.

And surely there's no way the reference could have been tongue-in-cheek or metaphorical.

Michael McNeil said...

I’m enjoying reading (re-reading with my partner) science fiction author Harry Turtledove’s alternate history novel Ruled Britannia, wherein the Spanish Armada won the War (in 1588!), conquered and occupied Elizabeth I’s England — and William Shakespeare and Lope de Vega (there as part of the Armada) are the principal characters! Lope de Vega, by the way, despite his voluminous output, famously managed an extremely active private life.

I don’t know how well Turtledove himself knows Spanish so as to be qualified to make an evaluation on his own of the overall merit of Lope de Vega’s corpus of work — his novel Ruled Britannia, of course, is in English — but one might note that as a trained Byzantine scholar Turtledove has earlier published his own translation of works in medieval Greek.

John Nowak said...

>People who decide to keep consuming the art of the assailants are doing similarly.

I'm uncomfortable admitting it, but this is true.

Personally, I've only avoided two artists I'd probably enjoy because of their pasts - Herbert von Karajan and Roman Polanski. I find myself watching older films because I just don't think the new ones are very good. The fact that most of the people involved are dead sort of takes the sting away.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...



"Ok, so one person."

Yes, I'm sure just one solitary Tinseltown resident flattered Weinstein and ignored any gossip about his behavior.


"And surely there's no way the reference could have been tongue-in-cheek or metaphorical"

Uh, nobody thinks Streep literally believes Weinstein created the heavens and the earth.

These are pretty half-assed arguments, Ritmo. Try harder next time.

Now I'm off to make soup...





Roughcoat said...

How many Catholics Christian know Augustine's private life?

I'm one. 'Augustine' is my confirmation name. I chose it because I was, like my namesake, a fuck-up who came to the Light.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Yes, I'm sure just one solitary Tinseltown resident flattered Weinstein and ignored any gossip about his behavior.

Oh. So gossip is the way Republicans make decisions about law and order, now.

Did you hear the one about Trump and Putin? And the tape? And the porn star? (That one actually has a lot of factual basis for it, though).

Uh, nobody thinks Streep literally believes Weinstein created the heavens and the earth.

These are pretty half-assed arguments, Ritmo.


So you expect me to make an argument against what you now admit wasn't actually even an argument, but just half-assed innuendo.

That's how you people roll.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Whatever we do, let's not ignore all that gossip in Michael Wolff's book.

gadfly said...

It is certainly a stretch for adults to remember in great detail what happened more than 20 years ago, so the sudden appearance of Dylan Farrow can be questioned as to why "another trial by media" on another celebrity, Woody Allen makes sense. Dylan's mother spent a good deal of her time and efforts in the 1990's to get even with Woody because of his affair with another member of Mia's family, her "of age" adopted daughter.

Remember the Day-Care Sex Abuse headlines prevalent back then? Wiki remembers:

Day-care sex-abuse hysteria was a moral panic that occurred primarily in the 1980s and early 1990s featuring charges against day-care providers of several forms of child abuse, including Satanic ritual abuse. A prominent case in Kern County, California first brought the issue of day-care sexual abuse to the forefront of the public awareness, and the issue figured prominently in news coverage for almost a decade.

Children are vulnerable to outside influences that lead to fabrication of testimony. Their testimony can be influenced in a variety of ways. Maggie Bruck in her article published by the American Psychological Association wrote that children incorporate aspects of the interviewer's questions into their answers in an attempt to tell the interviewer what the child believes is being sought.


By and large, the initial charges against Day Care businesses and their owners and employees, were found to be imagined, despite a grand amount of money spent on investigations. Millions of dollars in legal and medical fees were spent on the Woody Allen trial as well - but despite Allen getting saddled with the costs, he kept on doing "Woody Allen."

Now 28-year-old Dylan can read about what Vanity Fair thinks are the facts from 1994 and that is a whole lot easier than remembering what actually transpired when you were seven.
Next she can worry about losing her memory altogether.

Mark said...

It is certainly a stretch for adults to remember in great detail what happened more than 20 years ago

That's right. So where was all the concern when only a few years ago a lot of states started extending (or eliminating) their statutes of limitation to allow for lawsuits to be filed claiming that sex abuse had happened many decades earlier, including lawsuits where the alleged perpetrator had died years earlier, such that their estates had no way of defending against the suits?

Drago said...

TTR: "Oh. So gossip is the way Republicans make decisions about law and order, now."

Golden Showers crew says what?

Leora said...

I find it odd that people thought the Rolling Stone article felt true. It felt false to me - especially when I got to the part about the broken glass table top. And I absolutely believe that drunken gang bangs have occurred at fraternity parties.

Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...

Well, she was the one who said it, Drago.

Follow the thread.

rcocean said...

There's no evidence Tolstoy went around raping peasant women.

And comparing him to a turd like Polanski or Woody Allen in terms of intellect, morality, or talent is insane.

That a Leftist or a liberal would do it, doesn't surprise me.

exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...

rcocean, in his book "Intellectuals," Paul Johnson, (who is hardly a leftist) wrote that Tolstoy routinely helped himself to the prettier serf girls on his estate when he was a young man and fathered a son with one of them. He never acknowledged the child. Johnson cites Tolstoy's diaries and several different biographies as his sources.

Anonymous said...

" I’m being asked to give up on Charlie Rose, Kevin Spacey, Al Franken, Louis CK and Garrison Keillor, just to name a few. In a way, I’m starting to feel violated."

That is why we ought to leave justice to the people who do the due process thingy.

Or at least we ought to listen to our own conscience, instead of the groupmobthink.

RigelDog said...

By the way, you strike a chord, not a cord }}}}---Speak for yourself; I play a mean wood-pile.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

I gave up Woody Allen years before I heard of Soon Yi Previn and Dylan Farrow. I don't care for his art, but I still don't think he's guilty

furious_a said...

That is a great deal of the progressive movement these days. It means, in essence, that they have created a mental world that is no longer falsifiable by reality.

The Community-based Reality, it is.

Lem said...

200!

Resisting is futile.

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