February 15, 2018

"A lot of people were saying that it would be him. They would say he would be the one to shoot up the school. Everyone predicted it."

Said one of the students of Stoneman Douglas High School, where 17 students were shot to death yesterday, about the suspect, Nikolas Cruz (NYT.)

145 comments:

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Fortunately he had easy access to an AR-15 or his rights might have been curtailed.

sykes.1 said...

A typical weekend in Chicago. But avert your eyes.

rhhardin said...

My high school would have been safe. About 30 kids were in the rifle club and had guns in their lockers.

Dan said...

Sounds like there were a lot of red flags but you cant arrest someone for thinking.

Robert Cook said...

"My high school would have been safe. About 30 kids were in the rifle club and had guns in their lockers."

Having a gun in your locker is no help if you're trapped somewhere else in the school building with a shooter outside your door or in the same space as you.

Jersey Fled said...

Funny that the "educators" at the school all knew about this kids problems and all they did was kick him out. Where was the school psychologist in all this? Every school has one. This kid had obvious mental health problems, yet no one apparently reported him to the authorities who could have prevented him from getting a gun permit.

etbass said...

Looks like we are headed for metal detectors in all schools and armed guards. My granddaughter's high school has a police office within and city police are there during school hours.

We have removed God from public schools and replaced him with police.

I am Six Words or Less said...

School shootings: covered by Title IX?

-6W

traditionalguy said...

After knowing he was a threat that could not come on campus with a back pack of guns, there were zero security measures taken such as hiring off duty police. The football coach was made the "security guard, " but he was forbidden to carry a weapon.

No weapons were allowed on campus, which fixed nothing at all, unexpectantly.

Rob said...

Seventeen people killed—students, faculty and one hapless guy standing on the corner.

Tank said...

I'd like to see a drug test to see what, if anything, was involved.

roesch/voltaire said...

Now we can hear more thoughts and prayers while politicians continue to line their pockets with more NRA money.

etbass said...

Short of restoring the teaching of morality and godliness in our society, which is not to happen, we need for everyone to be armed. Yes there would be occasional shootings. But it probably would prevent mass shootings.

etbass said...

Yes, we could completely disarm the public as in Britain. That probably would greatly curtail mass shootings. And it would be perfect for the installation of the dictatorship so fervently desired by our superiors.

Henry said...

I will tell my kids the truth. They need to wear their bike helmets and stay to the right.

Kevin said...

Having a gun in your locker is no help if you're trapped somewhere else in the school building with a shooter outside your door or in the same space as you.

Robert Cook for High School concealed carry!

rhhardin said...

School shooting after school shooting, I just heard a politician say.

We need a school shooting day, so they're not sequential all the time.

Tank said...

I wonder if he had a two parent loving home life.

I am Six Words or Less said...

Duck and cover: just nukes, previously.

-6W

Tank said...

Did he and his parents attend church regularly?

roesch/voltaire said...

Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin.

Rob said...

To add a question to Tank’s: was he a Dreamer?

Ralph L said...

Some of his Instagram photos on a foreign newsite.

rhhardin said...

Thoughts and Prayers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SKkd79AjQ

Anthony Jeselnik

Unknown said...

It seems to me that mass shootings always happen in places where the shooter is confident that nobody else will be armed.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

If you trust BuzzFeed:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/the-fbi-was-warned-about-a-school-shooting-threat-from?utm_term=.hdazP6jWRA#.dorayJKDYm

The FBI was alerted to this guy but did nothing.

#FBIknew

rhhardin said...

Jeselnik: the audience for the coverage are wedding photographers who only take selfies.

Bob Boyd said...

Everybody is already armed. If you try to disarm them you will "turn this country into an NRA OK Correl".
The mention of "Putin" just reminds us how much we need our guns to back up our votes.

Annie C said...

Banning all weapons is a losing proposition. With the advent of 3D printing, as the price drops on the machines and materials, anyone will be able to make a weapon.

Banning gunpowder, fertilizer, ball bearings, pressure cookers, nail guns, and anything else that could be made into a projectile is a fruitless task.

When something is not allowed, people will find a way. See prohibition and the war on drugs.

The only way to stop people from shooting, blowing up others, or bullying someone into suicide is to look at the person behind the act.

We cannot arrest people for their thoughts. We can get them mental help, but just putting them on drugs does not seem to work since so many school shooters were on mental health drugs.

There only seems to be two imperfect solutions to the problem of murderous humans. Stopping them while they are still in the thought process or stopping them during the act.

Either we violate their civil liberties or we have armed people in more places than we do now.

The common line, "you can't fix stupid" could also apply. You can't fix evil.

rhhardin said...

There isn't a weekend when one of the neighors within earshot isn't banging away on his home target range. Yet nobody is shot.

I am Six Words or Less said...

Some students need to aim higher.

-6W

rhhardin said...

It's not stupid. There's always been stupid. It's media support of the genre.

Hey look I could do that and be infamous too.

There's a small price in lives and big bucks for the news media, who have to be a profit center or die.

rhhardin said...

Rate the coverage as child pornography. That would solve it.

rhhardin said...

Child pornography would be a fairly accurate analysis, too.

Quaestor said...

Having a gun in your locker is no help if you're trapped somewhere else in the school building with a shooter outside your door or in the same space as you.

Robert Cook makes an obvious point, as usual, but fails to follow the logic, as usual.

Fabi said...

They should make the lids of the new Harvest Boxes out of steel so the kids can use them as shields. Two problems solved!

Quaestor said...

One solution to school shootings.

Another solution for those who object to teachers carrying rifles.

Freder Frederson said...

The common line, "you can't fix stupid" could also apply. You can't fix evil.

So what are you saying, should we help people with mental illness or are they just evil that can't be fixed.

You are contradicting yourself.

Lem said...

I’m at the jury waiting room. It’s useless to attempt to spot the would be shooter. The courthouse has metal detectors.

Freder Frederson said...

A typical weekend in Chicago. But avert your eyes.

Chicago had 650 murders last year, so 17 murders in a few minutes would be very atypical.

Lem said...

The last time I was here I was looking forward to moving to Florida.

Freder Frederson said...

Short of restoring the teaching of morality and godliness in our society,

So when exactly did the teaching of morality and godliness in our society actually prevent violence? Did it prevent lynchings by church going men in the south? Did their pious Catholicism prevent the rise of the Italian and Irish Mafias in this country

Annie C said...

Perhaps Freder what some would like to call mental illness could be just plain evil.

Stacy M said...

For the guy bashing the NRA. The NRA is made up of individuals like me, a single mom, who has had her car and house broken into so I carry a gun to even the odds and protect myself and my kids. Yeah, I fight like hell when people want to leave me and my kids defenseless against criminals who see me as a target.

Bob Boyd said...

I'm looking at the Telegraph page Ralph L posted.
At the top is a cropped pic of the shooter with a handgun. Scroll down and you can see the uncropped pic. The barrel has an orange tip. So it's a toy, probably an Airsoft gun.
In the next block of images, he just has knives, the toy gun and a little Christmas tree.
The text of the article makes the guy's social media all sound so scary, but that's hindsight. If you look at what is actually posted it wouldn't have seemed very threatening beforehand. It's not the kind of thing where his teachers or somebody should have said, "Oh my God!".
His fellow students joking about him being the school shooter was alienating ridicule. I doubt anyone of them thought it was seriously predictive at the time. It's probably very common for kids to say that kind of thing about loners in schools these days.

Virgil Hilts said...

I could see federal task force focused on trying to minimize school/other spree shootings. TF takes calls/emails from public (students at this school, blogger from Miss. who contacted FBI, teachers/counselors/relatives/social workers/hotel workers/bartenders who think they know of someone who may go postal, etc.).
TF would check out tips, check on teenagers setting off home-made bombs (Columbine), check tips against profiles, set up social media tracking, send local cops to interview where appropriate, add tags to NICS so gun purchases refused and/or delayed and TF alerted, track unusual multiple gun buys.
Do we already have something like this? If so, have not heard about it and it wouldn't work unless people know about it and how to call/email in tips.
I think we now have the AI/other tools to actually do something like this. But the # of people killed annually in spree shootings has averaged (I think) only about 1% of total homicides, so not a budget priority. Given what we've seen over last 12 months, time to make it one. JMHO.

Kristian Holvoet said...

Funny that the "educators" at the school all knew about this kids problems and all they did was kick him out.

Anyone see the problem with the way colleges handle sexual misconduct? Bueller?… Bueller?… Bueller?

Annie C said...

Oh, and Freder, I don't mean evil in the God/Satan way. I mean evil as in a bad person that would not respond to any attempts at diagnosing or "curing" their mental health issues.

There are people in this world who are just plain bad. Call it broken, call it evil, call it psychopathy, call it Satan. It means the same and I don't think at this point in our evolution that we can fix it.

rhhardin said...

The joke about Barron being the first home school shooter was good.

Michael K said...

This kid had obvious mental health problems, yet no one apparently reported him to the authorities who could have prevented him from getting a gun permit.

The kid was reported to the FBI by a YouTube guy who is a bail bondsman. The kid posted a comment, "I want to be a professional school shooter."

The FBI interviewed the You Tube guy and nothing happened.

The fact that there was no armed security after all this kid had said and done is a mystery.

It's interesting that he did not kill himself. We may learn a motive.

Probably enjoying the publicity.

Kristian Holvoet said...

“God Created Men and Sam Colt Made Them Equal!”

Except that we have declared all schools official fish in barrel zones. Except for token SRO who spend more time rifling through phones looking for sexting or trying to bust kids for pot than actually keeping the school safe.

Fernandistein said...

"A lot of people were saying that it would be him."

I bet just about every school has someone they say that about.

It's not newsworthy when they're wrong 99.99% of the time.

sykes.1 said...A typical weekend in Chicago.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/tag/weekend-violence/
More like two or three weekends - because of their poor gun control (bad shots):
"25 Wounded In MLK Day Weekend Shootings"
"6 Killed, 22 Wounded In Weekend Shootings"

Rusty said...

roesch/voltaire said...
"Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin."

You want to join Trumpit on the moron bench?
Once again. For you and the other public sector employee at the top.
There are 100 million-MILLION- firearm owners in the US. Between them they own approx. 300 million-MILLION- firearms.
Here's the reality of any half assed gun control proposals you might entertain.
When just 5% of those 100 million say no there is absolutely nothing you or fedgov.org friends can do.
We're an armed country. Get used to it.

Freder Frederson said...

Short of restoring the teaching of morality and godliness in our society,

And societies (e.g., Europe, Australia) that are a lot less godly than ours, do not have this problem. And you can't blame minorities for our school shooting problems (like you try to do when it is pointed out that countries with much stricter gun control have fewer murders), almost all school shooters are white males.

Quaestor said...

We cannot arrest people for their thoughts. We can get them mental help, but just putting them on drugs does not seem to work since so many school shooters were on mental health drugs.

Anti-psychotics only work if the patient takes them, and the only way to ensure that is to confine the patient. Long ago, thanks in part to such entertainments as The Snake Pit (1948) and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975) this country essentially made psychiatric treatment voluntary. Just about the only way to treat a mentally ill person involuntarily is to find him not guilty by reason of insanity of a capital crime in a court of law.

This was not the case in the not too distant past when the plain fact that the most dangerously ill persons are also the most resistant to voluntary treatment was confronted directly rather than being swept under the carpet as is customary today. It is very common for paranoid psychotics to consider themselves more healthy than most people and especially favored with insights beyond the ken of the hoi polloi. They often resent the silencing of those "angelic" voices which haunt them and stop taking their medication to make the voices return.

We have already banned the possession of guns by the mentally ill and by convicted felons, which may come as a surprise to ARM, but these bans are ineffective. Felons do felonies, which means that the fear of incarnation usually does not deter them from crime, and among the crimes they are not deterred from are unlawful possession of firearms. They are enabled in these crimes by drug traffickers, who usually traffick in other contraband as well. The unlawful possession of firearms by the mentally ill is currently unsoluble because we have instituted laws which make mental illness virtually untreatable.

rhhardin said...

Erving Goffman's _Asylums_, a very entertaining and informative analysis of the social structure of mental institutions in the 50s and 60s, was responsible for getting involuntary committment banned.

That missed the point of the book. That both patients and staff organized so as to get something out of it was an analysis of any total institution, and of society in general, not something about mental institutions.

The supposed scandal was that staff got something out of it, and so the whole thing was banned.

"The simplest sociological view of the individual and his self is that he is to himself what his place in an organization defines him to be. When pressed, a sociologist modifies this model by granting certain complications : the self may be not yet formed or may exhibit conflicting dedications. Perhaps we should further complicate the construct by elevating these qualifications to a central place, initially defining the individual, for sociological purposes, as a stance-taking entity, a something that takes up a position somewhere between identificaiton with an organization and opposition to it, and is ready at the slightest pressure to regain its balance by shifting its involvement to either direction. It is thus _against something_ that the self can emerge. This has been appreciated by students of totalitarianism ...

I have argued the same case in regard to total institutions. May this not be the situation, however, in free society, too?

Without something to belong to, we have no stable self, and yet total commitment and attachment to any social unit implies a kind of selflessness. Our sense of being a person can come from being drawn into a wider social unit ; our sense of selfhood can arise through the little ways in which we resist the pull. Our status is backed by the solid buildings of the world, while our sense of personality identity often resides in the cracks."

Goffman _Asylums_ ``The Underlife of a Public Institution'' p.320

Quaestor said...

The ineffectual hero of "Metropolis" wrote: ...almost all school shooters are white males.

Almost all Nobel laureates in physics, chemistry, and medicine are white males.

Kristian Holvoet said...

Virgil Hilts said...
I could see federal task force focused on trying to minimize school/other spree shootings. TF takes calls/emails from public (students at this school, blogger from Miss. who contacted FBI, teachers/counselors/relatives/social workers/hotel workers/bartenders who think they know of someone who may go postal, etc.).
TF would check out tips, check on teenagers setting off home-made bombs (Columbine), check tips against profiles, set up social media tracking, send local cops to interview where appropriate, add tags to NICS so gun purchases refused and/or delayed and TF alerted, track unusual multiple gun buys.


1984 was a cautionary tale, not a How to Manual.


Search and replace 'go postal' with another crime, say 'illegal residence' or 'sell drugs'. Or say this was implemented 40 years ago, 'homosexual acts' or 65 years ago 'civil disobediance'

See any civil liberty issues with that?

You set up that surveillance, it will be used, and expanded to justify it's cost.

Fernandistein said...

Freder Frederson said...
almost all school shooters are white males.


Whites are under-represented when compared to % of population.

Blacks and especially Asians are over-represented.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

From the archives:

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

FBI too busy with Carter Page

Guildofcannonballs said...

Schools are a deadly anachronism.

Stay online and stay alive.

No murderous rage builds when watching skinny blondes in a g-string spinning through the air, so maybe society ought to do a little more encouraging of pairs figure (good golly wasn't hers amazing) skating.

Ralph L said...

societies (e.g., Europe, Australia) that are a lot less godly than ours, do not have this problem.
In Europe, the allahly cause some problems on occasion.

Guildofcannonballs said...

The problem with blaming Trump is he and his supporters want dead kids, need dead kids, and only find satisfaction in their lives from dead kids.

So blaming Trump encourages more of this. It is kinda a blast though.

Dr Weevil said...

It seems both ignorant and tasteless to claim that "almost all school shooters are white males" while discussing a school shooter named Nicolas (notice: no H) de Jesus Cruz. Maybe he's the second "white Hispanic" in the history of journalism.

mockturtle said...

Rhhardin suggests: We need a school shooting day, so they're not sequential all the time.

That would never fly. While it might provide a more directly competitive exercise, it would tend to dilute the instant fame and lasting notoriety of the perpetrator.

JZ said...

How about a quick trial and execution? Seems like an appropriate response in this case.

Curious George said...

"roesch/voltaire said...
Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin."

Name one place where the concealed carry has led to the "OK Corral." One place.

Now compare that to your stupid "Gun Free Zones." which should be renamed "Fish in a Barrel Zones."

Fritz said...

Not to make excuses for his actions, but I'm going to guess he was one those "throw away" male students that schools just don't want to deal with. It's much easier to expel them.

Fernandistein said...

Dr Weevil said...
Maybe he's the second "white Hispanic" in the history of journalism.


"Hispanic" isn't a race and a "white hispanic" is no big deal: Spaniards are white Hispanics. But the MSM did lie when they called Zimmerman a White-Hispanic because his mother is 'Proudly Afro-Peruvian'.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

The shooter was not a member of the NRA.

Responsible gun owners and NRA members DO NOT SHOOT UP SCHOOLS.

Leftwingers are all liars.

Hollywood inspires more gun violence that any other organization.

Etienne said...

Florida is like a third world country. The fuckers can't even punch a chad without help from the Supreme Court.

Etienne said...

I think it's high time we bring back public executions. Hang them to an inch of their life, then disembowel them, feeding the city dogs, and quarter them to feed the Lions in the Zoo. Put their heads on spikes at city hall.

MadisonMan said...

I wonder about how to fix this. Better than nothing is a high standard. To reflexively take away others' freedom seems wrong to me.

Would this child have done better in a trade school I wonder -- was he ever given an opportunity, or a choice, or was he just square-pegged into the round hole of today's Educational System? Misfit as a teen is a cruel part to play.

Fernandistein said...

Dr Weevil said...
Maybe he's the second "white Hispanic" in the history of journalism.


You are correct in that if he had been a white Hispanic activist or college nerd or politician, and was either cool or a victim of something, the MSM would call him plain "Hispanic" based on his name:

http://www.unz.com/isteve/quiz-can-you-pick-out-white-hispanic/
(unfortunately a lot of the pictures are now missing...)

But he's bad, so he's just "white" (See: FBI stats).

Oso Negro said...


Blogger roesch/voltaire said...
Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin.

2/15/18, 7:23 AM


Holodomor. Holodomor. Holodomor. Holodomor. Holodomor. No, hysterical bitches, it is not a quote from Game of Thrones. You can't steal the seed grain of an armed populace. The Putins of the world, like the Stalins, Pol Pots, etc, prey on UNARMED populations. Mass shootings of unarmed civilians are frightful in all circumstances. But governments with guns kill the most people of all. Please try to understand that.

etbass said...

Correlation is not necessarily causation.

But we didn't have mass shootings a few decades when morality and godliness were taught in public schools. We did have widespread gun ownership then.

Annie C said...

Curious George said...
"roesch/voltaire said...
Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin."

Name one place where the concealed carry has led to the "OK Corral." One place.

Now compare that to your stupid "Gun Free Zones." which should be renamed "Fish in a Barrel Zones."

The Twin Peaks Bar in Waco, Texas was quite the free fire zone for a bit. But it appears there was some law enforcement shenanigans, as many charges against the bikers are being dropped.

Oso Negro said...

That asshole in Florida would have to kill 17 people every day for 274 years to equal the bloody work of the Khmer Rouge. Who were led by college-educated progressives. THAT is why we have the 2nd Amendment. An ultimate defense against murderous government.

mockturtle said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Virgil Hilts said...

Blogger Kristian Holvoet said...

KH, I read the Church Report. It seems to me that the spree shootings are increasing and that (1) there is going to be greater call for gun control (which won't work), and (2) we are not going to go back to locking up all mentally unbalanced people (which might help).
The Vegas guy killed 69 and injured over 850 - one asshole in 10 minutes generated 10% of the 9-11 casualties (9k). The Columbine kids wanted to kill 400 but their bombs in the cafeteria failed to go off (they still could have shot/killed dozens more if they had wanted to (and maybe set the record) -- since the cops refused to go in -- but offed themselves after about 45 minutes).
Fortunately most spree killers are retarded and imbalanced. But I am worried that we are going to see more Vegas events and there will need to be some response.


mockturtle said...

Etienne suggests: I think it's high time we bring back public executions.

Yep. Maybe us a guillotine. Heads on spikes a great idea. This way, the perp would get even more air time.

MadisonMan said...

But we didn't have mass shootings a few decades

A few decades ago we didn't live under the "You have to go to College to succeed" umbrella either.

Leland said...

A good way to fix this is to allow better access to psychological counseling and assistance. If he had been committed to a mental institution, which seemed, based on community sentiment, what was needed; this may have been prevented. Even if he didn't have a gun, the comments by the community suggests he would have eventually killed someone in some manner. If you want to stop such crimes, threat the problem, which is the mental condition of the person.

CWJ said...

"Not to make excuses for his actions, but I'm going to guess he was one those "throw away" male students that schools just don't want to deal with. It's much easier to expel them."

I think we may find over time that Fritz's description has a lot of truth to it. I've heard that both parents are dead, mother died just last November, and kid is living with "friends."

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Anyone blaming social media?

A lot of blame should be directed at Facebook and Zuckerberg et al.

traditionalguy said...

At first glance the banner on the bottom of the screen on Fox said,"Florida School Officials give up on School Shooting."

On a doubletake it really said "...give update on School Shooting."

But they did indeed give up on having armed school protection guards.

Tom Gallagher said...

Those making light of this tragedy just shut the hell up; show a little respect for the victims and their families.

Etienne said...

When you put an executed criminals head on a spike, the birds get to peck his eyes and tongue out.

prairie wind said...

I suggest that we require gun safety classes for all students.

I also suggest that nationwide media coverage of a local event only encourages more of these events.

bolivar di griz said...

Surprise surprise


https://www.dailywire.com/news/27160/suspected-gunman-florida-school-shooting-ryan-saavedra

Unknown said...

In a nation of 320 million people there are going to be some crazy and evil ones. There is nothing we can, nor will, do to stop a very small minority of them from doing really bad and evil things such as this most recent shooting. Hurling pre-conceived notions and proposing demonstrably ineffective actions only serves as therapy in the hours and days following such an atrocity.

-sw

mockturtle said...

But they did indeed give up on having armed school protection guards.

It would appear that there were no restrictions on entry. Anyone, even a heavily armed individual who had been expelled could just saunter in. You'd think surveillance videos would be in place to show who is approaching the building. Even private companies do not give fired employees access to the premises.

Robert Cook said...

"Funny that the 'educators' at the school all knew about this kids problems and all they did was kick him out. Where was the school psychologist in all this? Every school has one."

Do they? My high school (in Florida) didn't have one. I doubt very much if most, much less all, public high schools in America have school psychologists. Heck, we didn't even have a school nurse, and we were one of the best public high schools in the county.

Jeff said...

Anti-psychotics only work if the patient takes them, and the only way to ensure that is to confine the patient.

Not really. Another alternative is mandatory outpatient treatment, with the threat of confinement to ensure compliance. Mandatory monthly injections of long-acting antipsychotics could also be used. I don't know whether there are such things or not, but I would expect that if there were a demand for such medications, the pharmaceutical industry could engineer them in pretty short order.

The real problem is that we seem to lack the will to confront mentally ill people and force them to get treatment. It is extremely difficult for family members, for example, to get someone they think needs help committed to treatment. This probably won't change until many hundreds more are murdered by psychotics.

Robert Cook said...

"We have removed God from public schools and replaced him with police."

God never was in the public schools, rightly so. The problems with children in schools comes from their lives outside the schools.

Curious George said...

"Annie C said...
The Twin Peaks Bar in Waco, Texas was quite the free fire zone for a bit. But it appears there was some law enforcement shenanigans, as many charges against the bikers are being dropped."

And that two rival motorcycle gangs shooting it out so not really an every day circumstance. Closer to the gang violence we see in Chciago than a bunch of unrelated people carrying guns in the same location...

Robert Cook said...

"Short of restoring the teaching of morality and godliness in our society...."

This is the responsibility of the families, not the schools.

"...we need for everyone to be armed. Yes there would be occasional shootings. But it probably would prevent mass shootings."

Ridiculous.

Robert Cook said...

"Maybe he's the second 'white Hispanic' in the history of journalism."

"White hispanic" is a U.S. racial category.

Robert Cook said...

"I think it's high time we bring back public executions. Hang them to an inch of their life, then disembowel them, feeding the city dogs, and quarter them to feed the Lions in the Zoo. Put their heads on spikes at city hall."

Yes...just like a third world country!

William Chadwick said...

The "A attacked B, which gives State-shtupper C the right to attack D" idiocy. I'm guessing this is a variant on the Argument from Pity fallacy, a favorite of "liberal" boneheads.

Instapundit today has an interesting discussion on the FBI being warned that the shooter was a threat. There are amusing comments on the theme, "Hey, don't bother the FBI with this nonsense. They're busy helping the attempted coup."





n.n said...

White Hispanic, African-American, etc. are politically congruent classes of half-breeds that have been normalized by personal and institutional diversity.

n.n said...

An untreated psychotic individual and a public deprived of the means for self-defense is a Plan to open an abortion field.

Lem said...

Wasn't isolation believed to breed this kind of behavior?

"Everybody knew" sounds like the guy was on the outside of pier groups.

Curious George said...

"Lem said...
Wasn't isolation believed to breed this kind of behavior?

"Everybody knew" sounds like the guy was on the outside of pier groups."

He should have seen a dock.

Lem said...

Did I misspelled that?

funny.

Curious George said...

"Lem said...
Did I misspelled that?

funny."

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Gospace said...

Recent drug bust in Poughkeepsie, NY, 16 arrests, 14 from Poughkeepsie. In addition to the drugs, guns were confiscated! I'm waiting for Governor Cuomo and legislature Democrats to explain how criminals obtained all those guns with the SAFE act in effect that hinders us law abiding citizens from obtaining guns, and a permitting process for handguns that in some state jurisdictions ensure only the politically connected get the permits.

Gun control laws don't stop criminals from obtaining guns. Just as criminal laws don't stop criminals from committing crimes. And drug laws don't stop druggies from using drugs. The difference between them is that gun laws are specifically designed to severely hamper the rights of citizens to obtain and purchase arms, and do nothing, absolutely nothing, to reduce crime.

mockturtle said...

Gun control laws don't stop criminals from obtaining guns. Just as criminal laws don't stop criminals from committing crimes.

Like the cartoon that showed two would-be armed robbers stopped at the door of a convenience store because of a sign. "We can't rob this place. It's a gun-free zone!"

Yancey Ward said...

You can't arrest someone for thinking, but you can for terroristic threats- and you can definitely monitor them closely in such instances. This is going to be a big black eye for law enforcement and the FBI if the allegations that they were warned by multiple parties about Cruz, and that the social media accounts where he made these direct threats prove true (I don't know they are true, but it looks increasingly likely they are).

320Busdriver said...

I've seen the screenshots of his iirc youtube account showing his threat that the fbi "supposedly" investigated. If that was not the red flag, then there is no red flag. Big black eye is the understatement of the year. At least we know there is no corruption at the fbi....

320Busdriver said...


Blogger prairie wind said...

I also suggest that nationwide media coverage of a local event only encourages more of these events.

It was nauseating watching that recent press conference as each and every speaker, save maybe the medical docs, seemed more than pleased to bask in the bloody limelight. Pam Bondi is especially good at this. No likey Pam.

Jim at said...

Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin. - R/V

Explain to me why we never - ever - see mass shootings at gun shows, Mr. Smart Ass.

traditionalguy said...

The 19 year old shooter has won more fame now than all the Olympics winners put together.

He earned great fame for his Gold Medal at School Shooting, scoring a perfect 10. He is beome the talk of the town.

But no one can figure out why he did it.

Gahrie said...

Everyone knew this kid was dangerous, and yet no one did anything about it.

hombre said...

Freder: "So when exactly did the teaching of morality and godliness in our society actually prevent violence?"

So when exactly did the passing of laws intended to reduce violence actually prevent violence?

William Chadwick said...

"Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin. - R/V"

"Explain to me why we never - ever - see mass shootings at gun shows, Mr. Smart Ass."

On today's Instapundit there's a link to an interesting article about how there were once guns in schools and yet no mass shootings. (And apparently few one-off shootings.) Mr. Smart Ass might want to crawl out of the "liberal" Cocoon and give it a look-see.

Mr. Smart Ass also doesm't know that the biggest, bloodiest gun-toter in history is the State, so beloved by "liberals." One academic, R. J. Rummel, has made a career out of studying the subject, and his estimate of "democide" (his term for "murder by government"), just in the 20th Century alone, is staggering. I forget the figure but it's in the millions, if not billions. And that's not counting war casualties.

langford peel said...

People like to put themselves in middle of a story. It is human but not very edifying.

Sure everyone knew he was going to blow. I know a lot of people who should be locked up. But we have laws.

The only sure defense is self defense. Period.

hombre said...

Let's see, the students and school officials knew Cruz posed a potential danger. The FBI had his name as an aspiring "professional school shooter." At the time he purchased his weapon there were federal laws restricting sale to mentally ill people. What went wrong here?

Maybe the gunphobes running the schools need to focus on protecting students instead of waiting for the passage of ineffectual laws. Maybe the FBI needs to focus on dealing with reported threats instead of phony political investigations.

Rocket science for Democrats and other rubes.

hombre said...

Blogger roesch/voltaire said...
"Now we can hear more thoughts and prayers while politicians continue to line their pockets with more NRA money."

The money given by the NRA is a pittance compared to the money given by teacher's unions who prefer expenditures on teachers' salaries and benefits instead of effective security measures.

Additionally, recipients of NRA fund support the Second Amendment before receipt, unlike recipients of union money who do as they're told by their union masters.

mockturtle said...

Has there been any evidence shown that this perp was mentally ill? Is it assumed that someone who shoots lots of people at a school is mentally ill? People with antisocial personality disorders are not legally insane nor can they be successfully treated [yes, there is plenty of evidence]. As in A Clockwork Orange, there are questions about violent behavior that we still can't answer.

mockturtle said...

BTW, I am an NRA member and know offhand of NO NRA member that has shot anyone in the criminal sense. More gun laws aren't going to protect anyone.

mtrobertslaw said...


Freder F. doesn't like the idea of teaching virtue and vice in our public schools. He apparently sees this as teaching religion. If he took the time to education himself he would learn that our concepts of virtue and vice originated with the ancient Greek philosophers and not religion.
If a growing number of children do not get any moral instruction from their parents or from religious institutions, where will they get their notions of right or wrong? From the street where it is easy to conclude that justice is nothing but the will of the stronger? Or from that amorphous thing called the "self" that invents "rules" for its behavior that feed its insatiate will to power?

MadisonMan said...

Yes...just like a third world country!

Include sh!thole next time!

I understand that the inclination to "do something" is strong after events like this, I really do. But will more laws help? Will banned armaments bring an end? I lean towards an answer of No. I think it's sad that the answer is no. But there it is.

mockturtle said...

Here is an article listing the top 50 lobbyists. I don't see the NRA on the list.
Top 50 Lobby Groups

hombre said...

Cook: "God never was in the public schools, rightly so."

Really? What was going on when I ordered my first Bible through Longfellow Elementary, a public school, so I could attend Bible class every Friday afternoon. Or when we spent an occasional moment in prayer for our troops overseas or sick classmates.

Like most SecProgs, Cookie believes history begins on the occasion of leftist landmarks like Engel v. Vitale or Murray v. Curlett.

exiledonmainstreet said...

Jim at said...
Yes arm everybody and turn this country into an NRA OK Correl much to the delight of Putin. - R/V

Explain to me why we never - ever - see mass shootings at gun shows, Mr. Smart Ass.

2/15/18, 1:15 PM

R|V is just shoveling the mouth diarrhea of Adam Schiff-ty, who claimed last week that Putin is all in favor of the 2nd Amendment. Schiff-ty spewed his droppings to divert from the fact that he's a corrupt, lying piece of pig shit.

And also because he knows dullards like R/V will unthinkingly parrot anything he says, any stupid theory he dreams up. If Schiff-ty claims Trump is sending sooper sekrit messages to Putin via his red neckties, Adam's idiot fan club will believe him.

Paul said...

Why is it you never see these mass shootings at parochial schools yet so often at public?

Is it a better class of student? Is it a more caring set of parents? Or is it the fact parochial schools have GOD in their schools while public ones do their best to erase God from their teachings?

How about the answer being all three. More caring parents, and thus a better class of student, tend to be willing to send their children to schools where morals are taught. And morals come from religion (where there is no vote on what is 'moral' and what is not. Where there is no 'choices' that none are good or bad.)

We need to reform our snakepits we call 'public schools'. They used to have prayer in such schools. They used to read passages from the Christian Bible over the PA system once a day. They used to teach morals in schools. Nowdays it seems it's all about 'transgender rights'. You cannot even wear a Christian t-shirt to schools these days!

Think about it folks. Mass shootings at parochial schools just don't happen (except at St. Mary's Parochial School in Newburgh, N.Y. in 1891 and Bremen school shooting in 1913!)

langford peel said...

roesch/voltaire is just upset that Russia is not Communist anymore.

Poor guy.

Henry said...

Why is it you never see these mass shootings at parochial schools yet so often at public?

Because of math.

There have been many shootings at churches.

Freder Frederson said...

On today's Instapundit there's a link to an interesting article about how there were once guns in schools and yet no mass shootings. (And apparently few one-off shootings.) Mr. Smart Ass might want to crawl out of the "liberal" Cocoon and give it a look-see.

Ah yes, a look back at the halcyon 1980's, where every school had a rifle club (bullshit, I graduated in 1979 from high school in the suburbs of Chicago, and there were no rifle clubs), people respected guns and morality prevailed.

Except of course the murder rate was twice what it is now.

Etienne said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Cook said...

"Gun control laws don't stop criminals from obtaining guns. Just as criminal laws don't stop criminals from committing crimes."

Given the precipitous drop in crimes nationwide over the past two decades, something is stopping criminals from committing crimes.

The Toothless Revolutionary said...

Every time a kid mows down dozens of classmates with firearms, a right-wing conservative feels more free.

Right-wingers can't feel free without a few firearm-facilitated mass murders on a fairly frequent/regular basis.

bolivar di griz said...


About that hot scoop:

https://mobile.twitter.com/alimhaider/status/964299405196255232?p=v

Anonymous said...

The only way to fix this is to change our culture. Which takes time and a ridiculous amount of sustained effort by millions of people. How long did it take after the 1964 Surgeon General's report for smoking to become uncool?

The culture of violence that we currently have has been evolving at least since the demise of the Hayes Code (and I would argue that the seeds were planted even before the Civil War). It would take decades to roll it back. And we haven't even started.

Sacto_Dave said...

etbass said: Looks like we are headed for metal detectors in all schools and armed guards. My granddaughter's high school has a police office within and city police are there during school hours.

We have removed God from public schools and replaced him with police.


I went to high school in 1966-1969. We had a uniformed and armed school cop, a member of the local police force, on campus. He mostly busted kids for trying to cut school or smoking in the bathrooms. But he was there when race riots broke out and called in support. It's not exactly a new idea.

narciso said...

https://mobile.twitter.com/ComfortablySmug/status/964304745082089474

Achilles said...

The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Every time a kid mows down dozens of classmates with firearms, a right-wing conservative feels more free.

Every time a kid mows down his classmates totalitarians try to disarm their political enemies and propose things that would do nothing to solve the problem.

Like every leftist post on this topic you have zero policies that would have actually stopped it or provided mitigation. But lots of hate for your political opponents.

There would have to be a school shooting that killed 17 kids a day for over 3000 years to equal the number of disarmed people Stalin killed.

Rusty said...

Blogger Robert Cook said...
"Gun control laws don't stop criminals from obtaining guns. Just as criminal laws don't stop criminals from committing crimes."

"Given the precipitous drop in crimes nationwide over the past two decades, something is stopping criminals from committing crimes."

Though not scientific evidence, the drop appears to coincide with the advent of concealed carry laws.

Rusty said...

Something for Freder

http://www.ihsa.org/NewsMedia/IllinoisHStoric/IllinoisHStoricArticle.aspx?url=/archive/hstoric/marksmanship_boys.htm

mockturtle said...

Achilles observes: Every time a kid mows down his classmates totalitarians try to disarm their political enemies and propose things that would do nothing to solve the problem.

Never let a crisis go to waste!

William Chadwick said...

Every time a dictator has unarmed and helpless "enemies of the State" liquidated, the Toothless State-fellator feels a tingle in his crotch.

320Busdriver said...

The news is not good for the FBI. Much worse than we thought.

JAORE said...

ARM, I know about the Trump action you reference. But the NBC article conveniently left out the fact that the ACLU supported the NRA position.

So, yeah, Trump stopped the act, because it was bad legislation painting with an extremely broad brush.

Focus in on people with evidence of violent tendencies and we can talk. This proposal was not the way.

But I suppose I am more hesitant to strip people of their rights than some.