January 11, 2018

"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?"

Said Donald Trump, according to unnamed sources who heard about a meeting Trump had to with some members of Congress in the Oval Office, WaPo reports.
In addition, the president singled out Haiti, telling lawmakers that immigrants from that country must be left out of any deal, these people said.

“Why do we need more Haitians?” Trump said, according to people familiar with the meeting. “Take them out.”...

The remarks were quickly met with scorn from Democrats and some Republicans and could throw another wrench into bipartisan discussions on immigration, which had shown promise in recent days, according to legislators.

Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) said the comments “will shake the confidence that people have” in the ongoing immigration policy talks.
I agree with Gutierrez, so I wonder who it was who chose to break the confidence of the meeting to serve the important goal of breaking people's confidence in the immigration policy talks, which had shown promise in recent days. Who would want to "throw another wrench"?

But also, why would Trump talk like that? Did he think it was funny and that it signaled to the people at the meeting that they were insiders, close to him and able to see him in an especially casual, chummy mode? But that would be just a trick, wouldn't it? I suspect that Trump put that word in there and even picked on Haiti intentionally. Not that I can figure out why!

ADDED: Scott Adams explains:

218 comments:

1 – 200 of 218   Newer›   Newest»
Drago said...

Is it time to list all the terms used by lefties to describe US states won by Trump?

Not to mention how the lefties refer to the voters in those states.

chickelit said...

Trump’s comments are transcribed in the indicative mood as if they were recorded. Other languages (i.e., German) would use the subjunctive.

Bay Area Guy said...

A lot of these places are shithole countries. That's why many want to leave and come here.

mockturtle said...

At least three flags are raised here, as indicated in italics:
Said Donald Trump, according to unnamed sources who heard about a meeting Trump had to with some members of Congress in the Oval Office, WaPo reports.

rhhardin said...

Well, it's sort of true. You want immigrants who are more or less of the same average IQ, not smarter and not dumber. Assimilation is more likely to work.

Chinese are hated in countries where they're a lot smarter than average, and the native population is resented in countries where they're a lot smarter than large immigrant groups.

It's part of being human.

where's my standard link

https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

Haiti has an average IQ of 67.

wild chicken said...

Truth is, one mustn't question immigration from said shitholes even without the epithet.

Because compassion.

rhhardin said...

The humanitarian cover is that you don't want to cherry pick the smart top of the population from countries that need them.

As has been happening with importing foreign doctors.

rhhardin said...

If the whole population comes from a single IQ group, then comparative (not competitive) advantage works without social discord. The country winds up doing things it should in world trade and everybody's better off, with no force or fraud.

BamaBadgOR said...

The Dems think they can use Trump's comment to embarrass him into a better immigration deal.

I'd like a dollar from everyone who thinks Haiti is a shithole country.

traditionalguy said...

The Trumps are a Norge fishermen . Surprise, surprise. The shit hole countries are potato based economies. The Viking countries are fish based economies.

Wisconsin of all places should understand this.

Big Mike said...

I assume Trump appreciates immigrants from Slovenia. One of the immigrants, anyway.

Not that Slovenia is a shithole.

Inga said...

“President Donald Trump prompted an outcry on Thursday after a bombshell report surfaced that he had referred to Haiti and African nations as "shithole countries" during a meeting on immigration with lawmakers.

But some White House staffers are unfazed by the remark because they believe it will resonate with Trump's supporters, CNN's Kaitlan Collins reported.

Instead, they predicted that Trump's base will be receptive to the comments in the same way they were when the president repeatedly attacked NFL players who knelt for the national anthem, according to CNN.”

I can believe that.

Hari said...

I can see why Trump would say this, knowing full well that it would be reported. Trump is arguing what he believes--that we need more people from Norway and fewer people from Hati.

The media is thrilled to be able to label Trump a racist, and Trump is happy to have the country see his actual position.

If this blows up, the country is going to think it was because Trump doesn't want people from what he describes as shit-hole countries, which presumably also includes people from the "depleted and food starved regime" of North Korea.

Humperdink said...

Trump should have said: "Economic basket cases, run by corruptocrats, filled with a population of unskilled poverty stricken human beings". Feel better?

dreams said...

If they're not shithole countries then what's the problem with sending them back?

robinintn said...

Now the news cycle will be filled with people outrageously outraged about Trump's [alleged] comment, and in their hysteria, they will inevitably box themselves into the position that the world's shitholes are really wonderful, fabulous places. It's almost as if he did it on purpose.

robinintn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Browndog said...

I can't figure out if these countries full of black and brown people are shitholes, and that's why they should come to white America to improve their lot in life-

Or, if White America is a shithole, and we need black and brown people to come to America to improve our lot in life.

Liberalism...(oh, and I'm deeply offended by the term 'shithole'. That level of crude and offensive language has no place in this shithole)

rhhardin said...

Trump's supporters aren't receptive to the characterization shithole countries, but to the idea of focusing immigration on merit. They're prefer there weren't shithole countries but don't know what to do about them. Taking their population doesn't seem like a good idea though.

There's the shithole country problem and there's the immigration problem. We have no idea what to do about the former problem. We do about the latter.

rhhardin said...

Econtalk.org has a couple podcasts on why corrupt countries don't reform, but IQ is left out. It's about structural disincentives to reform, like the ruling class and the people they buy off are worse off if they reform.

There's some truth to that. The Chinese are smarter than whites but run a corrupt country.

There's a theory that IQ isn't the only thing you need, but some behavioral inclination to cooperation as well, which the Chinese don't have. This is the Goldilocks theory of good genes.

Jupiter said...

Inga said...

"But some White House staffers are unfazed by the remark because they believe it will resonate with Trump's supporters, CNN's Kaitlan Collins reported.

I can believe that."

So can I, Igna. Now answer the question. Why should want to import people from shithole countries? Is Francisco D right about you? Are you so hard up the only way you can get any is from imported rapists?

Limited blogger said...

Are you folks still listening to what Trump says, instead of watching what he does.

Inga said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Drago said...

I wonder how many votes in actual swing states Trump lost by potentially calling out s***hole countries for being s***hole countries?

Whats next, shoving cigars up interns?

Wait, that is actually approved of by the left so that wouldnt be a problem.

Jupiter said...

That must be what they mean about "jobs Americans won't do".

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Haitians only recently finished paying off their purchase price for freedom from France who had made them agree to a 'promissory note' for it. Clinton went ahead and added more shit in the shithole.

FullMoon said...

Ah, heck, nobody wants to talk about Haiti

How Clintons Hurt Haiti

Inga said...

“Are you so hard up the only way you can get any is from imported rapists?”

Are you in a contest with your buddy to see who can be the bigger most vulgar jerk?

Lydia said...

Mia Love, a Republican member of Congress from Utah, has released this statement:

The President’ comments are unkind, divisive, elitist, and fly in the face of our nation’s values. This behavior is unacceptable from the leader of our nation. My parents came from one of those countries, took an oath of allegiance to it, and took on the responsibilities of everything that being a citizen comes with. They never took a thing from our federal government. They worked hard, paid taxes, and rose from nothing to take care of and provide opportunities for their children. They taught their children to do the same. That’s the American Dream. The President must apologize to both the American people and the nations he so wantonly maligned.

rhhardin said...

So Mia Love's country was deprived of some smart people who thought they could do better in the US.

FullMoon said...




Is a shithole same as a cesspool?

Inga said...

Stop and think how ridiculous you've become. I'm

fine with becoming persona non grata. Your blog has

become the cesspool it once was. I'm pretty much

done here. 2017, 6:33 PM

Inga said...

Sen. James Lankford, R-Oklahoma, called the reported comments "disappointing."

"If these comments are accurate, they are disappointing." Lankford said. "I would not talk about nations like this, because I believe the people of those countries are made in the image of God and have worth and human dignity."

Republican Ohio Gov. John Kasich tweeted following the news of the remark, "America was built on the backs of immigrants from around the globe. We must honor that history, not reject it. It starts with respectful rhetoric and signing bipartisan DACA legislation."

Spiros Pappas said...

I don't think Chinese people are smarter. Chinese students may have a very small advantage in visuo/spatial ability over their White counterparts, but this advantage disappears in adulthood. Many studies conclude that there is no difference in general intelligence (at least between Asians and Europeans). That seems right, but who knows...

Tank said...

I wish he said that, but I don't believe he did.

readering said...

Althouse overthinking POTUS as usual. He's a 71 year old non-career politician speaking as he would in his office in Trump Tower in the good old days.

rhhardin said...

Well I don't know. They work pretty hard on measuring something to call IQ, in genetics.

William Chadwick said...

The language may be crude; but how are Haiti and similar Third World countries NOT "shithole" countries? Just wondering.

I used to know an insurance investigator who specialized in phony death claims, which (from what he said) was pretty much a leading industry in Haiti. Every time he went there on a case, and somehow came back alive, he said he understood why people talked about kissing the ground of their homeland upon returning from some Third World hell.

rhhardin said...

The German for shithole is Shithole, according to google.

It's apparently neuter. Das Shithole. Let's try a plural

die Schithole, it says. Which proves it has no idea what it's talking about.

I'd go with das Scheissloch.

Khesanh 0802 said...

Mockturtle makes the best point. This is second hand hearsay printed in the unreliable WaPo. The report rings a bell because almost all of us at one time or another have thought of these countries as "shitholes". Given the state of their sanitation many of them, quite literally, are.

So far the White House has done the right thing and remained silent.

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"Shithole countries" is an absolutely typical remark I hear all the time from ordinary people, Deplorable, liberal, and otherwise. I believe Trump said it, because it's just the kind of thing that will provoke an overreaction which will not resonate with the middle.

I am extremely reluctant to ascribe 3D chess skills to any politician but, Good God, everything suggests that Trump is coaxing the Left into self-herding themselves over a precipice. Slowly, but definitely.

Inga said...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Donald Trump is a racist," Democratic Rep. Ruben Gallego of Arizona tweeted. "Bigotry should have no place at the White House."

"The president calling #Haiti a 'shithole country' ignores the contributions thousands of Haitians have made to our #SoFla community and nation," Republican Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen said in a tweet. "Language like that shouldn't be heard in locker rooms and it shouldn't be heard in the White House."

Browndog said...

Mia Love's comments and subsequent outrage proves the point that all people have an inherent loyalty to the lands of their origin.

The Founders were wise to dissuade their path to American leadership, and sharply illustrates the flaws with the current immigration system, or lack thereof.

Khesanh 0802 said...

This "report" quite likely was planted by someone trying to derail the coming agreement. If so, who suffers? The so called Dreamers. Good work!

Jack Wayne said...

Jeez Althouse! Here in Texas we refer to Californication and New Jerk as shitholes. And no one here wants to live in a lefty shithole like Wisconsin.

Dad29 said...

Ms. Love's parents left one of those countries......why??

They are exactly what Trump said they are. So was Ireland after the famine.

rhhardin said...

The president calling #Haiti a 'shithole country' ignores the contributions thousands of Haitians have made to our #SoFla community and nation," Republican Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen said in a tweet. "Language like that shouldn't be heard in locker rooms and it shouldn't be heard in the White House."

Now it's getting into outright humor.

Fabi said...

"He can't call our country a shithole! Only we can call our country a shithole!"

h/t Boon (Or was it Otter?)

FullMoon said...

"The president calling #Haiti a 'shithole country' ignores the contributions thousands of Haitians have made to our #SoFla community and nation," Republican Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen said in a tweet

And every one of those thousands agree that Haiti is a shithole.


See, now the conversation will be whether Haiti is a shithole, or not.

Big Mike said...

Mockturtle makes a couple excellent points, as usual.

rhhardin said...

The whole galazy is held together by a shithole at its center.

Browndog said...

Detroiters call Detroit a shithole. So does the rest of the State. And country. I bet Haitians would too-

chickelit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

There are no atheists in shitholes.

chickelit said...

Scott Adams just earned my vote for senator, no matter which party.

Achilles said...

I thought Mia Love was smarter than that. Same with Ann.

The people of Haiti are not hurt by the people who call Haiti a shithole. They are hurt by the people who pretend it is something other than what it is. They don’t need unicorn farts. They need people who will honestly address their problems.

Notice all of the outrage on the left over calling Haiti a shithole who also know the Clintons raped that country financially and didn’t care. You are all part of the problem.

BamaBadgOR said...

Imagine the Dems fighting for more immigration from shithole countries. This is going to be a pay-per-view event.

Achilles said...

"The president calling #Haiti a 'shithole country' ignores the contributions thousands of Haitians have made to our #SoFla community and nation," Republican Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen said in a tweet. "Language like that shouldn't be heard in locker rooms and it shouldn't be heard in the White House."

Said by a douchebag that feeds off the poor and copy/pasted by an idiot.

mockturtle said...

Rovinintn conjectures: Now the news cycle will be filled with people outrageously outraged about Trump's [alleged] comment, and in their hysteria, they will inevitably box themselves into the position that the world's shitholes are really wonderful, fabulous places. It's almost as if he did it on purpose.

;-) Trump is always several steps ahead of the media.

walter said...

If true, would love to know what preceded that.

rhhardin said...

It's holistic.

Achilles said...

Some people are so stupid they think calling a country a shithole is racist.

rehajm said...

Consider the source.

traditionalguy said...

Best comment heard, " If Trump keeps this up, by tomorrow he will have CNN saying fuck, fuck, fuck over and over on TV.

rhhardin said...

Curiously, Trump may get black support on it. Immigrant blacks do better than US blacks.

Hagar said...

The trouble with the whole immigration "debate," is that we first need to that we indeed are a nation and entitled to have national policies. Then we can begin debating what should be in those policies.
Assuming that the answer to the first question comes out positively in favor, of course.

Kansas Scout said...

Haiti IS a shithole country.

David Begley said...

Why don’t Haitians fix Haiti? Didn’t the Clintons try and fail? Or was the Dominican Republic?

No surprise that MSNBC and CNN in a major meltdown. It is all about race.

Mark Steyn noted that Haiti is dysfunctional but not St. Kitts. Race has nothing to do with it.

n.n said...

That would explain the mass exodus from some second and third-world nations.

Well, that, and social justice adventures that deny individual dignity, promote diversity, replace production with welfare profits, and open abortion fields.

Lem said...

I hate to break it to you all... there are a lot of shithole places in the world. Surely we don't have to take people from all of them.

Rabel said...

It's shitholes all the way down!

wareagle69 said...

In light of the media's never ending Trump hysteria, did he really say this? If he did, so what? They are "sh**hole" countries based most comparisons to first world nations. Why do we want them here as opposed to folks with more education and higher skill sets?

Before anyone starts on the "racist" rant, I don't care what color people are who come here. Race is immaterial to me. What skills do you bring to the table and what is the likelihood that you can readily integrate into American society? That should be the criteria.

A merit based system similar to ones used by Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand and Austria should be our goal.

Trump, if he said it, may not have used the most elegant language, but his point is valid.

anti-de Sitter space said...

"I suspect that Trump put that word in there and even picked on Haiti intentionally. Not that I can figure out why!"

Yes, Althouse and I see DJT as a human, not like the librul lamestream media and such who try to say he's a racist human.

So, we can't figure out what could make him not see that there are some very fine people in those shitholes.

We're stumped!

n.n said...

Immigration reform treats symptoms, increases welfare (e.g. Foundation) profits, and gerrymanders districts, while ignoring and progressing the causes. It's a diversitist solution that should be rejected in favor of emigration reform, immigration that does not exceed the rate of assimilation and integration, and unPlanned Parenthood.

David Begley said...

Lem

Yes we do. It is our moral and constitutional duty to allow anyone from any country into the United States. Right in the constitution. Amendment One: Diversity is our strength. America is a country of immigrants. If you can get here, you can stay here.

Drago said...

"Language like that shouldn't be heard in locker rooms and it shouldn't be heard in the White House."

LOL

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/330238-dnc-chair-raises-eyebrows-with-frequent-swearing

"Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Tom Perez isn't afraid to swear in his speeches...."

"Perez, who has been traveling the country on a unity tour meant to unite the party after a bruising election season, regularly uses curse words in his speech, often to say some variation on his claim that Republicans "don't give a s--- about people"

Looks like the p****-hatters and the #MeToo hypocrites have moved on to language hypocrisy!

Why not?

Why. Not?

JaimeRoberto said...

Sometimes a shithole is just a shithole.

J. Farmer said...

"Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?"

Great question! In fact, it is the question. It is the different between maintaining a recognizably American nation and having that transformed into some kind of multinational polyglot likely to be as unified as the former Yugoslavia. What was the first thing the South Asians did when granted national self-determination? Fight a vicious civil war leaving over a million corpses in its wake. Take the island of Hispaniola and divide it between two peoples and see the differences you get in Haiti versus the Dominican Republic. "Latin America" is a recognizable cultural unit, because it was populated by Latin Catholics. The US and Canada were populated by Anglo Protestants. But over the recent decade the Ango-Protestant cultural core of the country has been systemically dismantled by competing ethnic interests. Amy Wax's infamous Paying the price for breakdown of the country's bourgeois culture in the Philadelphia Inquirer is an obituary for the cultural core.

There were some secondary reasons I voted for Donald Trump (e.g. trade, entitlements, possibly a more limited foreign policy), but the primary reason, as I've always said, was immigration. If Trump fails on immigration, his presidency is a failure. Period. Every other interest is secondary to national suicide. And even then, it is a hail mary pass. How the DACA issue is settled may be a harbinger. Wait and see.

Rabel said...

I'm just a little surprised at the number of politicians who have made damning, formal statements so quickly without stronger sources.

Jupiter said...

Blogger Inga said...

"Are you in a contest with your buddy to see who can be the bigger most vulgar jerk?"

Well, it's nothing formal. He says something. You say something. Damned if I don't say something. Pretty soon, some things have been said.

Now, back to the question, Igna. Why should we be importing Muslim criminals from Somalia? How is that in any American's interest? If it's not so you can get laid, what is the justification?

David Begley said...

I want to see Anderson Cooper spend a week in Haiti and give a week of honest reports. Voodoo and all.

Drago said...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/04/clinton-white-house-the-residence-excerpt-116706

"White House Florist Ronn Payne remembers one day during the Clinton presidency when he was coming up the service elevator with a cart to pick up old floral arrangements and saw two butlers gathered outside the West Sitting Hall listening in as the Clintons argued viciously with each other. The butlers motioned him over and put their fingers to their lips, telling him to be quiet. All of a sudden he heard the first lady bellow “goddamn bastard!” at the president—and then he heard someone throw a heavy object across the room."

Well, I never....

Browndog said...

Voodoo being the most popular religion, I sense a shortage of chicken blood and blonde goat hair coming in the very near future.

gg6 said...

Sources say.
BFD.
Haiti is iINDEED a complete shithole as is Somalia, Detroit and a sad number of other places....what is new and frankly refreshing is that we apparently have a POTUS who actually talk facts and truth like a human being and not a phony poster-boy, professional Pol or Nanny. God forbid we hear the actual talk of Kennedy, LBJ, Obama, etc...probably Jefferson, Ghandi, the Pope, Buddha and Aristotle as well.

Jupiter said...

I mean, I understand they weren't criminals when they left Somalia. The things these vermin do aren't crimes where they come from. I'm surprised Harvey Weinstein doesn't move there, in the Muslim World he could pass for a feminist. But why the Hell would you want to bring them here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395390/The-Arabic-gang-rape-Taharrush-phenomenon-sees-women-surrounded-groups-men-crowds-sexually-assaulted-spread-Europe.html

Drago said...

Jupiter: "Now, back to the question, Igna. Why should we be importing Muslim criminals from Somalia? How is that in any American's interest? If it's not so you can get laid, what is the justification?"

Clearly insufficient adolescent girl female genital mutilation and inability of muslims overseas to cultivate sexual slavery rings here in the US.

Plus, not enough acid attacks, heads being lopped off and clearly too few kosher deli's being firebombed.

But the hummus! Oh, the hummus!

Michael said...

Fly over Hispanola and note the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Shocking that you can see the demarcation from thity thousand feet. One side lush the other stripped of trees, a virtual desert, a shithole.

Drago said...

New lefty rule:

From now on, s***holes everywhere must be referred to thusly: "(Insert Country Full Of America Haters Here) is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful country I've ever known in my life."

Drago said...

Michael: " Shocking that you can see the demarcation from thity thousand feet."

Demarcations are literally white supremacy and a tool of the heteronormative patriarchy.

walter said...

Some of them trying to escape rape by UN "peacekeepers"...

Browndog said...

"Shithole" is about to become so popular, Lake Superior State College will put it No. 3 on it's list of banned words a year from now.

n.n said...

So, is there corroboration, or is this a progression of Water Closet, where JournoLists scrambled fast and furious, with their anonymous and hearsay sources, in order to cover-up the DNC denying the nomination to the left-wing Jew, Obama spying on Republicans, and Clinton colluding with foreign assets?

Jupiter said...

Shithole si, Norway no!

gg6 said...

Blogger David Begley said...
I want to see Anderson Cooper spend a week in Haiti and give a week of honest reports. Voodoo and all.
Oh, yes, yes, I LUV that..Anderson Cooper or Sen. Schumer, Pelosi, Clinton or Bernie doing a deep-dive report from Haiti. The mind boggles in forbidden delight.

walter said...

Shhhh, nn.
Trump said a naughty word.

n.n said...

Also, do we ignore emigration reform, force immigration reform (e.g. refugee crises), deny the people left behind in some second and third-world nations, and the progressive impact and disruption to communities of native women, men, and children at their source and destination, including compensation for selective-child/recycled-child under the Pro-Choice Church's Planned Parenthood division?

Hagar said...

As for more immigrants from Norway, I doubt Trump will have much success with that. As long as the North Sea oil lasts, they are doing great where they are, and the birth rate is pretty low, so there is little pressure for emigration.

As for the "shithole" comment - so crude that CBS said they could not bear to repeat it, though they just did - what is so different about Santo Domingo and Haiti? I doubt the skin color differences between the two halves of the island are as stark as usually depicted, so what else could have caused the radical differences in government? Why is San Salvador and, I think, Honduras in so much worse shape than than other Meso-American countries?
The United Mexican States is a federation of 31 states, of which the U.S. State Dept. has issued travel warnings against just 5. Why is that?

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Trump will not play the PC game. I'm Ok with that. Why do we need to let everyone in? All sorts of EU nations have strict immigration laws.

Try to move to New Zealand. Guess what - you can't. NZ's immigration laws are strict. Is New Zealand racist?

William Chadwick said...

I think the description of Haiti as a "shithole" is notionally accurate. And isn't that the only kind of accuracy that matters these days?

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Q: What power couple helped turn Haiti into a shithole?

?

Paul said...

News flash folks!!! Most illegals do come from Shithole 3ed world countries.

You think they come from paradises?

Trump is just being honest about where they come from.

chickelit said...

Rabel said...I'm just a little surprised at the number of politicians who have made damning, formal statements so quickly without stronger sources.

I agree. The news doesn't pass the smell test.

n.n said...

walter:

You're right. "Shit," which, under normal conditions, ranges from brown to black shades (colors excluded in a rainbow spectrum, and with good pretext), and "hole," which is an NAACP-registered synonym for "whore". Rabidly diverse, profitable, and incongruent.

walter said...

"The news doesn't pass the smell test."
;)

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

"Dreamers" - who came up with that? The media or the democrat party?

Jupiter said...

Wow. Sending Trump $50 every time he does something that gives my soul release is getting expensive. But like the tactical theorists say, "Reinforce success!".

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

J Farmer @ 8:27
Excellent post.

Seeing Red said...

Some people think certain cities and states are shitholes.

Sometimes I actually look into my child’s room and think.....

When you move out, it’s going to be interesting.

n.n said...

News flash folks!!! Most illegals do come from Shithole 3ed world countries.

Yes. In particular mass exodus, which does not happen for light or even marginal causes. That's why it's humane and critical to raise the issue of emigration reform and identify social justice adventures that conduct elective regime changes, replace production with welfare profits, and force immigration reform (e.g. refugee crises).

The Cracker Emcee Activist said...

"I love people from shithole countries! They make the best toilet bowls!!"

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

I'd like to move to Norway. Think they'll let me in?

Browndog said...

Puerto Rica was a shit hole. Then a hurricane hit, they blamed America and moved to Miami. I wonder how that's going to work out for Miami.

jacksonjay said...

"He's a Master Persuader, ... here, let me translate."

Dilbert

n.n said...

Now that we have identified the shit holes, what can we do to help them help themselves?

Perhaps a Protestant religion and work ethic. The Catholics are also self-moderating and industrious. The Chinese effectively colonize countries of interest.

walter said...

If Laslo were here, he would extol the virtues of shit holes..

walter said...

Make a list..for no one to see.

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...

Shorter leftwing machine: Trump is a racist.

Shorter shorter leftwing machine: We must import democrat voters because Americans outside of the Robert DiNiro/Meryl Streep entertainment/media bubble are fed up with corruptocratics.

Browndog said...

Yes, I know-

Everyone not me is tougher than me and will beat me up because I'm American and they're not.

Comanche Voter said...

Having travelled on business to Nigeria frequently during the early and mid 1980s, I have some views on Nigeria. I wouldn't call it a shithole. But I can recall walking down a street in the middle of downtown Lagos where raw sewage was flowing into the middle of the street and on the sidewalks. Didn't do my leather wingtips any good, I can tell you that. Lagos's problem at the time was that a perfectly adequate sewage system built by the Brits in the colonial 1950s was entirely overwhelmed by all the folks cramming into the capitol in the late 70s and 80s. The same thing happens in nearly every third world country.

And I travelled to Caracas on business several times in the late 90s. It too is a country well on its way to "shithole" status. It was no day at the beach in the late 90s--people's hotel rooms being broken into, and people were assaulted.

I'll agree with another commenter about the second hand hearsay nature of this "report" by the WaPo. Maybe he said it that way, maybe he didn't. But I don't care. Many will think that truth is a defense for statements such as this. Unpresidential to say it? Heck yes! Do I care? Heck no!

Richard Dillman said...

The word shit has a long historical lineage and today has a bad reputation as a taboo word. In the Middle Ages,major British authors routinely used forms of the word in literature meant for large audiences, frequently including the cultural andpolitical elites. For example, in "The Canterbury Tale," Chaucer used forms of shit at least twice in widely understood ways. Someone is said to say a " shitworde", the word for foul language in 1390, and a dirt encrusted shepherd is
described as a "shitten shepherd." We are still hung up on the Victorian taboo sense of the word.

Apparently Trump used shitwordes in semi-polite company.

Seeing Red said...

As my dad said long ago, we can’t have civil unrest on our southern border.

eric said...

Here's the problem and I mean this sincerely.

The only way this works is if you're going to get the President to apologize.

In the past, the reason this sort of reporting has worked, is because it has gotten the Republican to "back down" and voice "regrets" and spend several news cycles acting like a wimp in front of the cameras.

Trump isn't going to do any of that.

I suppose a secondary way that they get this to work is that it takes down other Republicans. Notice how gleeful people like Inga are on reporting the Republicans, like Mia Love, who go out there and cry and say what a terrible thing it is that the President said such a thing? I believe this is the 4th of 5th time they've gone to Mia Love for a quote. She has become rather reliable in this area (As well as others like Flake, Sasse, etc).

They don't do it because people in swing states will care. They do it because they want the subsequent back down.

And many Republicans are still falling for it.

Fortunately, Trump is not.

chickelit said...

Trump has opened the window on what we can discuss by over a ton.

wwww said...


Electorally, I find it curious he would say these things. People from Puerto Rico are citizens, yo. Last I looked, over 200,000 had moved to Florida since the hurricane. I do not see how Trump can loose Florida and win in 2020. His margin of winning Florida in 2016 does not allow for much error.

Josh Barro:
"I'm not sure how badly this stuff plays nationally, but what Trump is doing seems like a way for Republicans to lose Florida forever.

"Trump won Florida by 120,000 votes out of over nine million cast. Up the Hispanic share of the electorate by a couple points and shrink the GOP share of the Hispanic vote by a few points and...

"Mishandle a hurricane in a way that helps maximize the number of Puerto Ricans who move to Florida, and then make statements that activate and alienate Hispanics in a state where the GOP has long gotten a decent share of the Hispanic vote."



anti-de Sitter space said...

I like that one, chick.

Big Mike said...

@Jupiter, be careful. There are legal limits on campaign contributions (except for folks named Clinton or Obama).

chickelit said...

Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...Shorter shorter leftwing machine: We must import democrat voters because Americans outside of the Robert DiNiro/Meryl Streep entertainment/media bubble are fed up with corruptocratics.

Did you read that Terry McAuflle has join DeNario by threatening to slug Trump if they ever met?

chickelit said...

McAuflle is the VA Guv who opened the VA election to felons -- just enough to swing an election.

jacksonjay said...

Thirty-one House Republicans have announced they will not seek re-election. That is not good for DJT. Bannon has gone down in flames. He will not be providing those primary candidates he crowed about. Maybe, just maybe the GOPe can hold on to save Trump! Does Trump realize he needs to keep the House? Swing state talk is premature.

Browndog said...

Infrastructure built by the British, French, and Dutch colonialists 80 years ago is still somewhat functional in these 3rd world countries despite no maintenance or improvements. Yes, the rail cars are now slow rolling shanties, but are vital transportation.

chickelit said...

jacksonjay said...Thirty-one House Republicans have announced they will not seek re-election.

Have they endorsed their would-be Democratic opponents like William Kristol embraced his ideological opponent?

Browndog said...

Trump called a spade a spade, in the language we all use.

I applaud it, even if I'm the only one.

n.n said...

Did you read that Terry McAuflle has join DeNario by threatening to slug Trump if they ever met?

Knockout game? I wouldn't have thought them as players.

Old English scitte "purging, diarrhea," from source of shit (v.). Sense of "excrement" dates from 1580s (Old English had scytel, Middle English shitel for "dung, excrement;" the usual 14c. noun seems to have been turd). Use for "obnoxious person" is at least since 1508; meaning "misfortune, trouble" is attested from 1937. Shit-faced "drunk" is 1960s student slang; shit list is from 1942. Up shit creek "in trouble" is from 1937 (compare salt river). To not give a shit "not care" is from 1922. Pessimistic expression Same shit different day attested by 1989. Shitload (also shit-load) for "a great many" is by 1970. Shitticism is Robert Frost's word for scatological writing.
- etymonline.com

There are too many second and third-world countries, including Haiti, that suffer from anthropogenic and Nature-made misfortune and trouble.

n.n said...

Trump called a spade a spade, in the language we all use.

I wouldn't have used those semantics, but it does force the issue (e.g. anthropogenic trouble, Nature-made misfortune, and immigration reform) to the forefront.

Michael said...

Trump should invite McAullif and DeNeiro to the WH and call their pussy bluffs. They won't hit shit.

n.n said...

by over a ton

A gross ton.

Michael said...

Drago:
"Demarcations are literally white supremacy and a tool of the heteronormative patriarchy."

Good point, but the brown people on the DR side are not letting the browner people on the Haitian side whack down their trees for fuel. The less brown like their lush lush country and don't want it fucked up by patois speaking ton ton macutes.

chickelit said...

@rhhardin: Regarding your German neologism Scheissloch, I think the closest German word would be Schweinerei (lit., "swinery" or pigsty). I also thought that Scheisserei (shitery) would be it, but that word means diarrhea.

chickelit said...

Micheal mused: Trump should invite McAullif and DeNeiro to the WH and call their pussy bluffs. They won't hit shit.

Yeah, I'd especially like to see Hollywood tough guy DeNiro take on the Secret Service.

chickelit said...

Trump should tweet DeNiro: "You talkin' to me?"

Jason said...

Ich bin ein Shitholer.

Luke Lea said...

Well, for one thing, Haiti has been so completely drained of human capital (almost all Haitians with college educations have emigrated to the US or other countries) that if anything the flow of immigration should flow in the other direction: we should be sending them our best, not the other way around.

chuck said...

Clinton's 1994 invasion of Haiti may have ruined the last best chance to start fixing the place. I don't know that the generals would have succeeded, but I think they intended well. Clinton, OTOH, fucked the place up with bad advice and the usual Clintonian corruption.

Gahrie said...

Prior to the present obscenity that is our immigration laws, the United States set strict quotas on who could come here from which country. Some countries at various times were explicitly excluded, such as Japan. Any immigration reform should include a return to such a system, and such a system should favor immigration from countries with populations most likely to assimilate with us.

n.n said...

Trump should tweet DeNiro: "You talkin' to me?"

Knock, Knock.
Who's there?
Trump.
Trump, who?
You talkin' to me? There's no one else here. You must be talkin' to me.

That works. Take it to the press.


Also...

Knock, Knock.
Who's there?
De Niro and McAuliffe.
De Niro and McAuliffe, who?
De Niro and McAuliffe, sitting in a tree...

Uh, I mean, De Niro and McAuliffe, gonna knock you out.

Guildofcannonballs said...

Why don't anti-sitter de Sade just solve Haiti, seeing as how we know how rich and amazing be is?

Fucking racist shitheel is why. A black-hater cheapo racist hanging around Althouse instead of being even more amazingly richly amazing.

Us normals are unable to do anything about, or even understand what, if anything, is wrong with Haiti while de anti sitter-sadist could instantly solve the (seeming) problems he racistly compounds.

chickelit said...

Luke Lea said...Well, for one thing, Haiti has been so completely drained of human capital (almost all Haitians with college educations have emigrated to the US or other countries) that if anything the flow of immigration should flow in the other direction: we should be sending them our best, not the other way around.

That's a fair and reasoned opinion. Unfortunately, it doesn't square that notion that Trump be racist.

jacksonjay said...

Chick,

I'm not worried about Bill Kristol. You think Kristol is an opinion leader? I'm concerned about losing men like Darrell Issa and losing the majority. These GOP Congressmen aren't quitting because they think they can win.

Gahrie said...

Clinton's 1994 invasion of Haiti may have ruined the last best chance to start fixing the place.

What is most damning is that the other half of the island, the Dominican Republic is actually doing quite well comparatively.

The Dominican Republic, like Mexico, receives billions of dollars in remittances from the United States every year, much of it from people who are illegal immigrants to the U.S.. However, in a bit of irony, the Dominican Republic itself struggles with the issue of illegal immigration from Haiti.

Johnny Sokko said...

Let's be perfectly honest, those countries are absolute shitholes. You ever been to Haiti?

That isn't a polite thing to say (especially for a head of state) but it sure as hell is true.

Mac McConnell said...

Trump is wrong, Haiti can't be a shit hole, because Bill and Hillary got rich fixing it. Trump used Haiti as an example because of the Clintos . See how it works?

jacksonjay said...

My beautiful wife has added a few pounds in 35 years. So have I. I would never ever call her fat. The King of the World should temper his honesty, at least occasionally.

Trumpit said...

Better to be from a shithole country than to be a shithead yourself.

Shithead definition, a stupid, inept, unlikable, or contemptible person. -Dictionary.com

Quaestor said...

The always avoided question is why are shithole countries shitholes. (I will assume we all agree that Haiti is a shithole country. If Inga disagrees I will hold her obliged to explain why it is not.) Is Haiti a shithole because of climate or some other detail of geography? Somalia is another shithole. However, Somalis is mostly an arid wasteland, much like southern California, therefore the local climate may indeed be the problem... though I doubt it. SoCal is well on its way to shitholedom, even though its climate has been more or less arid since the end of the Younger Dryas. The reason for California's incipient decline into a societal cloaca is entirely the responsibility of the shitheads who reign unchecked in Sacremento who have poured billions into an astounding array of harebrained projects while simultaneously exhausting the ability of the tax base to finance the golden retirement expectations of hundreds of thousands of state employees. A non-shithole American Sovereign State would fix the potholed highways before traipsing into Bullet Train Oz, would it not? Of course, California is a constitutional republic. The shitheads who run amok in Sacremento didn't sprout there like noxious weeds. They were elected by shitheads who are probably even more addled than the legislative shitheads who can't put the hooka down long enough to think rationally about trains and pension plans.

Somalia, Haiti, SoCal and every other shithole on the map are what they are because shitheads live there and take shitheaded choices. Granted Haiti has bad storms and occasional earthquakes, just like Japan. And Haiti is rather overcrowded, just like Singapore. And Haiti has been afflicted historically by rapacious colonizers and grossly overbearing religious dogma and superstition, just like Ireland... oops! Yep, just like Ireland, or at least somewhat like Ireland. Ireland is a beautiful place with a very agreeable climate when compared to another North Atlantic island nation, namely Iceland. Iceland has had its share of shitheads, read Njal's Saga if you doubt me, but they never got control of the place because they were in the minority. And in spite of their shitheaded propensity to murder and rapine, the non-shitheads prevailed. For seven hundred years the Irish blamed the English for their troubles, and for hundreds of years before that, they pointed accusing fingers at the Norse. If only the foreign devils would leave Ireland to the Irish they moaned in their marvelously poetic language. But what was the result when the Gaels themselves alone were finally put in charge of green and lovely Erin? Quite a lot of shitheadery, that's what. The Irish shitheads didn't quite succeed in turning their island into a shithole, but that may have only been because of the Irish talent for benign incompetence.

People who demanded unfettered immigration of shitheads need to explain why America will be better for having them. We have an abundance of native-born shitheads who do quite enough damage all on their own, thank you very much.

TwilightofLiberty.com said...

There are countries that are indeed shitholes. This is not even debatable.

If they were not shitholes, their citizens would not be fleeing them. We are such a nation of crybabies.

Anyone who thinks no other president has ever referred to other nations as "shitholes" in private conversation is a dunce.

Browndog said...

Quaestor said...

Art. Beautiful, poetic art.

chickelit said...

Chick, I'm not worried about Bill Kristol. You think Kristol is an opinion leader? I'm concerned about losing men like Darrell Issa and losing the majority. These GOP Congressmen aren't quitting because they think they can win.

Issa is my former Congressional rep. I've voted for him several times. But that portion of CA (North County San Diego) is turning blue. The military presence (Pendleton) is really all that keeps it red.

Mimi Walters is my new Congressional rep. I met one of her upcoming challengers the other day as he canvassed the neighborhood.

jacksonjay said...

Private conversation with Dicky Durbin.

chickelit said...

Parts of the South Side of Chicago? Shitholes where people shit on their own. Let Oprah, and Obama, fix that -- in their hometown -- before they go trying to lead the country.

I agree with this.

John Pickering said...

Ann says

Not that I can figure out why!

Truly Ann, you could have shown that you were better informed about Trump's long history of racist acts and speech. But you have chosen not to: you have examined the evidence of how our masterful chief behaves and thinks it's all pretty funny.

Is it something like, Ha ha, the libtards get upset over a little word like shithole. Hilarious! Snowflakes! Ain't my hair blonde! Mine too! Why is that funny?

Well done Ann -- up to a point -- with your graceful and subtle analysis. Scott Adams too, so clever.

Ann, go ahead and figure out why. I think you actually probably have. This business about Trump as humorist has lost its steam. He's the American President, give him some respect.


MaxedOutMama said...

Maybe Trump was just saying what he thinks? Without worrying about the "optics"? It would seem characteristic.

But do we want all the Haitians to move here?

Quaestor said...

Another always avoid question is why are the anti-Trumpists such poltroons, such candy-assed milquetoasts, such sniveling cowards? Why won't the source of the shithole controversy come forth and testify in the daylight of public discourse? Of what is he afeared? Trump? Trump is nothing but a windbag, correct? Terry McAuliffe says he will "deck" him. And McAuliffe's a stand-up guy, right? So why the fear? Why the dread of a silly septuagenarian bully?

WaPo's own self-styled motto is "democracy dies in darkness", is it not? It seems to me that Jeff Bezos is determined to kill it all by himself.

MaxedOutMama said...

Not sure I believe that Trump said this, btw. It kind of seems off. Never watched his show, don't follow his tweets, so I distrust my own Trump sensors, but still, it doesn't seem like the way he would speak.

Sebastian said...

"I agree with Gutierrez" Why?

Is Haiti not a "shithole" country? If not, what is?

Do we want more Haitians to immigrate? Why more Haitians than Poles or Indians?

Or should we just not say things that aren't nice about other countries? Or just about other countries where most people are black?

But actually, the biggest thing that shakes anyone's "confidence" in immigration reform is Dems' unwillingness to enforce any law.

William said...

Shithole is the wrong metaphor. They're leaky colostomy bags. You're not supposed to notice, but, if you do, you should express sympathy for the fate that has been inflicted on the person afflicted with that condition........Nobody likes being called deplorable, and nobody likes being told he comes from a shithole. I voted for Trump despite not because of the stupid shit he says. I do not regret my vote but this was an unforced error.

Drago said...

Trumpit the Hopeless: "Shithead definition, a stupid, inept, unlikable, or contemptible person. -Dictionary.com"

Hey, easy there Tiger. Even obambi said Hillary was "likeable enough".......

Well, no she wasn't it turns out!

Leora said...

Trump just proved that he cannot have a private negotiation with Democrats without anything he says being immediately leaked to the press.

I personally don't approve of using scatological or obscene language in business meetings, but it is not uncommon. Jimmy Carter is probably the only president in my lifetime who couldn't have used a swear bank to put in quarters for every obscenity, blashphemy or scatology.One of the political jokes I remember from my childhood had the punchline "at least Bess got him to say 'manure.'" which is one president before my lifetime.

I also think the folks hearing "shithole countries" as necessarily racist may be the racists.

I'm with Senator Hatch - looking forward to the clarification.

William said...

German people are hard working, disciplined and intelligent. Pulling together, they managed to create a cratered shithole out of their country. Shitholes happen.

MaxedOutMama said...

PS: I'm totally bored with the obsessive focus on what Trump said or, for heaven's sake, tweeted. I am quite interested in his policies. I might support any one of them or not, but I'd like to know about his policies. But no, that's not what I get from journalists any more.

I feel as if the media has been stuck in a Gold Curtain Frenzy for over a year, and it IS STAGGERINGLY BORING. Anyone else remember the Gold Curtain tantrum? I never would have seen it if Ann hadn't covered it in a post on this blog. A large portion of the media never moved on, and apparently never will move on:
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-most-interesting-sentence-in-george.html

I feel like the media is constantly standing there howling "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! Look at the gold curtains - they are what matters!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyCCJ6B2WE

D.E. Cloutier said...

Comanche Voter: "But I can recall walking down a street in the middle of downtown Lagos where raw sewage was flowing into the middle of the street and on the sidewalks."

I'm a white American businessman. In the 1990s I was the sole passenger in a Peugeot that was in a head-on collision with a Mercedes truck on one of those streets in Lagos. I refused to get out of the car. I was wearing a new pair of Gucci loafers.

"Do you or the other driver want to call the police?" I asked my Nigerian driver.

"No police," the driver said, shaking his head vigorously.

A female passerby banged on my car window. "Tell your driver to get you out of this neighborhood," the Nigerian woman told me. "It's not safe for you."

I thanked her for the information.

"Let's follow the lady's advice," I told my driver. "I'll buy you lunch. Afterward, I'll talk to your boss and tell him the accident wasn't your fault."

Shitholes can be fun.

walter said...

Again..we get one (supposed) quote..as opposed to the conversation..

walter said...

MaxedOutMama ,
I'm far more intrigued with the Comey Curtain Hideout.

chickelit said...

Anderson Cooper is particularly fluent in boorish tonight, considering that his most famous line about Trump concerned shitting on a desk.

EDH said...

It's better in a hell hole
You know where you stand in a hell hole


Hell Hole

I'm living in a hell hole
Don't want to stay in this hell hole
Don't want to die in this hell hole
Girl, get me out of this hell hole.

I rode the jet stream
I hit the top
I'm eating steak and lobster tails
The sauna's drafty
The pool's too hot
The kitchen stinks of boiling snails.
The tax man's coming
The butler quit

This ain't no place to be a man
I'm going back to where I started
I'm flashing back into my pan.

It's better in a hell hole
You know where you stand in a hell hole
Folks lend a hand in a hell hole
Girl, get me back to my hell hole

walter said...

If true, I wonder why Trump would think Norwegians want to come here.
I would have expected them to hate him.
Maybe he sees their oil wealth and is impressed.

walter said...

(Their guv site attributes their social welfare specifically to oil wealth)

chickelit said...

Leora wrote: Jimmy Carter is probably the only president in my lifetime who couldn't have used a swear bank to put in quarters for every obscenity, blashphemy or scatology.


Hah! I had one of those "swear banks." I bought it at Wall Drug Store during a family vacation/rode trip, ca. 1972. It was made of aromatic cedar and was embossed with: "Swearing is bad and it just ain't funny, so if you cuss it will cost you money."

walter said...

https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/oil-and-gas/norways-oil-history-in-5-minutes/id440538/

"Petroleum activities have contributed significantly to economic growth in Norway, and to the financing of the Norwegian welfare state. Through over 40 years of operations, the industry has created values in excess of NOK 12 000 billion in current terms. In 2012, the petroleum sector accounted for 23 percent of value creation in the country. This is more than twice the value creation of the manufacturing industry and around 15 times the total value creation of the primary industries."

Bay Area Guy said...

I think the protocol requires one to pretend that shithole country "X" is not really a shithole, and to never, ever, EVER, refer to shithole country "X" as a "shithole" - at least not in public.

Quaestor said...

Irish ARE Nordic.
Not according to genetic surveys.

Who built Dublin
Who cares? The first Medieval urban center built at the confluence of the Poddle and Liffey was built by Norwegian colonists in the late 900s AD. The principal economic activity appears to have been slave trading. According to Heimskringla, the Viking Age town that eventually became Dublin paid tribute to Eric Haraldson, the king of Norway. So, though Dublin is in Ireland, its origins are not Irish.

...and the old Irish men today are fairly indistinguishable from the old Swedes.
And Swedes are fairly indistinguishable from Finns, who are hard to tell by looking from Latvians, who strongly favor the Poles, who if you didn't know better might be taken for Czechs, who in a certain light are dead ringers for Bulgarians. Sheesh.

The Irish successfully fought their colonizers, and pushed the next door neighbors back to their own lands. The sun set on the British Empire. Ireland doesn't need you to visit. But oh Lord, Europe visits... And marvels at the scenery, the food, the people, the simple and uncorrupted ways.
Well, no one can accuse Mary E. Glynn of not being passionate on the subject of simplicity. In truth, I suspect my personal experience of Ireland tops yours, Mary. I have hunted with the Blazers and the Tipperary, and I made a horseback trek from Galway to Armagh which took me down many a dirt road and farm track. I've seen it and lived it. I love Ireland, but the Irish are the Irish — a people hobbled by persistent myths.

Same blood, with some Spanish conquistadors mixed in too.
And you called me stupid.

D.E. Cloutier said...

Bay Area Guy: "I think the protocol requires one to pretend that shithole country "X" is not really a shithole, and to never, ever, EVER, refer to shithole country "X" as a "shithole" - at least not in public."

That's usually true unless the folks you are talking to need you more than you need them. If they need you more, they will smile and agree with almost anything you say."

walter said...

"the Irish are the Irish — a people hobbled by persistent myths."
Damn that Bono...

Yancey Ward said...

Trump is pretty much factually correct, though- most 3rd world countries are basically "shitholes" by pretty much any definition you want to give. Shithole is how most of human existence has been up until about the last couple of centuries, and even now over half the world's population still lives a close to subsistence lifestyle. Even the US has shithole areas in every single state. I know Trump's enemies think this remark (if it is true that he actually made it) will hurt him, but I am doubtful it can do much damage since the only voters who are likely think it beyond the pale to speak a truth in a harsh way won't vote for him or Republicans in any case.

Anonymous said...

The framing works to Trump's advantage. Why the media isn't a bit more careful after being tricked into associating Trump with genius this last week is a mystery, but now Trump's also gotten them to associate poor countries with shitholes after literally using the word in every sentence uttered the last 12 hours trying to make Trump look bad. The association between poor country and shithole is going to last a lot longer than remembering that Trump made the connection.

Trump gets to have the debate on his terms, and arguing that places like Haiti are not shitholes (or should not be called that) is a much worse hand to be playing than the usual sympathetic framing of people from these countries as refugees and victims.

Jay Elink said...

Spiros Pappas said...
I don't think Chinese people are smarter. Chinese students may have a very small advantage in visuo/spatial ability over their White counterparts, but this advantage disappears in adulthood. Many studies conclude that there is no difference in general intelligence (at least between Asians and Europeans). That seems right, but who knows...
*************************************

Then explain why the Chinese who come here excel, far beyond their numbers.

Jay Elink said...

Spiros Pappas said...
I don't think Chinese people are smarter. Chinese students may have a very small advantage in visuo/spatial ability over their White counterparts, but this advantage disappears in adulthood. Many studies conclude that there is no difference in general intelligence (at least between Asians and Europeans). That seems right, but who knows...
*************************************

Then explain why the Chinese who come here excel, far beyond their numbers.

Tens of millions of Americans are agreeing tonight: "They ARE shitholes. If they weren't, why are their populations fleeing to the US."?

If the US is such a cesspool of racism and misery, why don't those people want to go back to their homelands?

Why should the US help the kleptocracies abroad by allowing their citizens to come here, instead of cleaning up their own...shitholes?


Jay Elink said...

You want shittholes? I got yer shittholes right here......Detroit...Chicago...Philly...NYC...Gary....most of LA....Harlem...almost all of New Jersey....

Name a country populated by a majority of black people that any American--white, black, or what-ev-- would want to migrate to...or who DO move to in significant numbers....

(insert "Jeopardy" theme here....)



Kevin said...

Josh Barro: "I'm not sure how badly this stuff plays nationally, but what Trump is doing seems like a way for Republicans to lose Florida forever.

"Trump won Florida by 120,000 votes out of over nine million cast. Up the Hispanic share of the electorate by a couple points and shrink the GOP share of the Hispanic vote by a few points and...

"Mishandle a hurricane in a way that helps maximize the number of Puerto Ricans who move to Florida, and then make statements that activate and alienate Hispanics in a state where the GOP has long gotten a decent share of the Hispanic vote."


Exactly the kind of reporting we've come to expect, which is to say substituting the anchor's preferred narrative for fact.

Puerto Ricans are Americans. He's not talking about them. The first people who know Puerto Ricans come from America are Puerto Ricans.

You know who really thinks Haiti is a shithole? Puerto Ricans. Puerto Ricans and the Dominicans who actually share the island with the Haitians. Start talking to a Puerto Rican or Dominican and casually mention the local Haitian population. Then just listen.

Gospace said...

Browndog said...
Trump called a spade a spade, in the language we all use.

I applaud it, even if I'm the only one.


Trust me, you're not the only one.

Stephen said...

Professor Althouse,

You really can't figure out why Trump would say what he said? Really?

Can you entertain or discuss the following explanation?

Why would he say "shithole countries" about a wide range of countries that are predominantly black or brown, including every African country, while preferring Norway, a poster child for whiteness? Especially, why would he say it if it had any chance of derailing the bipartisan compromise bill he earlier said he'd be delighted to sign, largely without regard for its content?

One strong inference, based on the racial composition of the disfavored and favored countries, would be that he is a racist, is speaking to and for those who share his views, and doesn't think or care very much about whether expressing racist views advances any coherent legislative agenda. Even Scott Adams admits that it "sounds" racist.

Now you could argue for other inferences. But you'd have to deal with the history, which Adams does not: the Trump cos history of intentional discrimination, Trump's birtherism, his original proposal for a blanket ban on Muslims and his baseless attacks on Muslims in this country, his reflexive endorsement and forwarding of unverified anti Muslim tweets from a racist/nationalist organization, his comments about Mexican rapists and bad hombres, amplified by his recent tweets that reducing immigration from the south will save thousands of lives, his comments that all Haitians have AIDS and Nigerians live in "huts," his remarkably ignorant and indifferent comment that Frederick Douglass is doing "really great work," his suggestion that there were good people "on both sides" in Charlottesville, his defenses of Confederate monuments, his attacks specifically on black athletes who refuse to stand for the national anthem. And so on...

Many of these, too, have other possible explanations, but collectively they point strongly in one direction: he is an anti black and brown racist and he doesn't care much about concealing it, because he thinks it actually helps him.

And it does, with some people. The comments on Scott Adams' video are overwhelmingly positive, far more than Adams' own comments. And they are largely positive here, too--strikingly laced with a lot of blanket generalizations, racial and national stereotyping and amateur genetic theorizing that feels dangerously close to racism itself.

Given the number and intensity of the incidents involved, it's hard to argue that this is about overcoming PC speech, correcting the excesses of affirmative action, or a great sense of humor. It seems more like playing with overt racism based on skin color and racial and cultural stereotyping and making it respectable. It's hard to argue, given the history and evidence, that its hysteria to say that. And isn't it important to you that its clearly the emotional truth, certainly for almost all people of color in this country, even for many whites, and for many overseas observers, whose views are relevant even though they don't vote here?

It's an extra bonus that Trump's racism threatens to derail many opportunities for productive change and politics across the left right divide in many policy areas, not just immigration.

Your blog has an category for racial politics, though you didn't put this in that category. I've not seen one for racism. And apparently you have lost your ability or willingness to to see it or to entertain in print the idea that it is a real phenomenon and live in the White House.

So again, do you really have no explanation?

Tim at large said...

It’s a reasonable question crudely phrased. Why doesn’t the US have a right to pick and choose immigrants in a way that suits our best interests?

Why should we bring in people who don’t believe in democracy or equal rights, would be one question I ask. Why is it that we need more and more unskilled labor, is another question.

It’s not racist to ask those questions, sorry.

Ronald Barbour said...

How do we know for certain Trump made a "Shithole Country" remark? Once again its the infamous "unnamed sources close to the president" and this was originally reported by NBC and re-reported by the Washington Post = Fake News, INC.

dreams said...

It's sad that we have to treat liberals like children but they are childlike in their liberal bubble ignorance. A sad situation but also very dangerous.

BUMBLE BEE said...

Browndog is right about Detroit. With family in the police and emt, you wouldn't believe the stories. Crack babies and fetal alcohol syndromes walking the streets. BTW, have you seen Canada's immigration requirements lately? Makes one envious.

iowan2 said...

I thought everyone would have learned by now, but I guess the media is truly nothing but theater.
President Trump, just not bending to PC pressure and does't use PC words. Like Clinton's wife.

What he should have said is why do we take these people from these deplorable and irredeemable countries.

sparrow said...

The issue is that shithole countries don't necessarily have shitty people. I don't blame the average Haitian for the disaster that country has become. It's completely understandable for someone from Haiti to want to come here. Letting them in is a question of charity rather than merit.
Trump wants only those who'll provide needed skills. While I understand that I think there's a place for the poor. The charity we show is good for us too because it teaches us the reality of a shared humanity, we see ourselves in others and it erodes our arrogance. Note I mean real charity, that actually helps a person not a government hand out. Often these new immigrants become the best defenders of the US because they appreciate what it offers while we natives take it for granted.

Kevin said...

The racist attitude is to believe we have to let Haitians and people from other so-called "shithole" countries immigrate because someone has to do the work Americans don't want to do.

Bay Area Guy said...

It might be racist to pretend that a shithole country isn't really a shithole.

Just sayin'

isthmus legend said...

Hurt fact:

NPR "Port-au-Prince, Haiti, is one of the largest cities in the world without a central sewage system."

Port-au-Prince, with a metro population of 2.6 million people, is a literal shithole. Don't think too hard neo-libtards.

virgil xenophon said...

Wanna see how fast an American city can become a "shithole?" Try East St. Louis, Illinois. In 1960 it was 95% white and designated an "All-American City" (award) for good government. Today it is 95% black and an utter hell-hole of crime and municipal corruption..

Bob said...

Meanwhile the same ones complaining are taking the knee because we're all a bunch of racist bastards.

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