"A video shows an encounter between a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program," from "Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program" (NYT).
The Defense Department has never before acknowledged the existence of the program, which it says it shut down in 2012.... The shadowy program — parts of it remain classified — began in 2007, and initially it was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time and who has long had an interest in space phenomena. Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow, who is currently working with NASA to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space....Something screwy is happening.
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152 comments:
My first thought is, if you are an organization given thousands and millions of dollars by the government to investigate strange "space phenomena", you damn well better find some, and quick. If, as reported, it shut down after five years, then it didn't find anything of too much interest.
This video aside, which is pretty cool, dude.
There are a lot of funny things that happen with energized gasses. The interface between the upper atmosphere and space is very energetic. You have thin gas, sunlight, the solar wind, and the interplanetary medium all reacting with the earth's magnetic field.
No need to bring "space aliens" into the equation.
I like to remind people (esp. SF fans) that no evidence has ever been found proving that life exists outside of the earth's biosphere.
Very good point. There is *something* going on. And I despair that soon this comment thread will fill up with the usual Uranus, X-File and Harry Reid jokes...
But there is *something* going on. Unexplained aerial phenomenon, Chinese or Russian advanced vehicles, or, yeah, ETs. Listen to the pilots' voices. These isn't Bubba or Martha in a trailer park watching their pet heifer getting hauled up into the air.
And we should find out what it is.
My wife loves this stuff. She is convinced she saw an alien ship some years ago.
I showed her the video.
It says "A video shows a 2004 encounter near San Diego between two Navy F/A-18F fighter jets and an unknown object", but it shows a still of two chubby guys wearing green t-shirts in a swimming pool, which is confusing because they're two objects.
Apparently neither of the chubby guys have been identified - SCARY!
"Sexual misconduct from outer space!"
I think there is alien life on other planets.
I would not be surprised if there is Archea-like life on Mars.
Had any of the Mars explorers had the ability to dig a trench about four feet deep, they would probably find Extremeophiles, which are probably related to Archea there.
The trouble with all this is that earth is about 5 billion years old and intelligent life is about 200 million years old.
That counts intelligent as being able to adapt to environment as a fish might. Or a dinosaur.
Many people assume that a civilization at about the same stage of development as ours exists and uses radio frequencies to communicate.
That's another matter altogether.
Anything promoted by Harry Reid is suspect.
Where is Mulder and Scully when you really need them?
Frisbee.
"Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow"
Take us to your leader, President Donald J. Trump.
Giorgio A. Tsoukalos says I TOLD YOU SO!!!!
Most of the money went to a .... longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow,
Of course it did. Because Harry Reid just happened to know the most qualified person to investigate this. Or because the entire Democratic Leadership is corrupt.
It's Santa, dummies. They bring a video like this out every Christmas Eve.
OK, he's a week early. Maybe he has extra toys this year.
Blogger David Begley said..."Take us to your leader, President Donald J. Trump."
Now that would be bigly.
"Or because the entire Democratic Leadership is corrupt."
Or because the entire Democratic Leadership is looney tunes.
$22 million would give 220 deserving students full scholarships at a four year public university.
BADuBois said...I despair that soon this comment thread will fill up with the usual Uranus, X-File and Harry Reid jokes...These isn't Bubba or Martha in a trailer park watching their pet heifer getting hauled up into the air.
Thank goodness we have you here to keep the conversation elevated.
I think there is alien life on other planets.
I, also, think that there is alien life on other planets. It would be more amazing if there was no life elsewhere.
The problem with Humans is that we are so vain. We think that life must look like we do, breathe the same atmosphere, tolerate the same temperatures.
Life on other planets will probably be so completely different or so incredibly tiny, like the Archea, that we will never recognize it as being 'life/life' and probably accidentally destroy it.
It’s obviously Fat Bastard.
Sorry, but there's only us.
I wonder if Bigelow happened to kick back a hundred mil of government coin to progressive PAC's along the way... no I don't. Corruption, thy name is Democrat.
The shadowy program — parts of it remain classified — began in 2007, and initially it was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time and who has long had an interest in space phenomena. Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s...
"Hadden?"
"S.R. Hadden."
A part of me simply loves the fact that pilots flying multi-milliion-dollar fighter planes call each other "bro" and "dude" over the radio.
The pilots all have call signs, which anyone who watched "Top Gun" would know. "Dude" may even be a call sign.
Two Marine pilot friends of mine had "Fokker" and "Dodger" as call signs.
Klaatu Barada Nikto
Forget the Russians. I think Trump is colluding with aliens. It would explain a lot. We need an investigation!
"I like to remind people (esp. SF fans) that no evidence has ever been found proving that life exists outside of the earth's biosphere."
I hope you don't mean to suggest there may be no life outside the earth's biosphere.
That life exists here, in a multitude of forms and levels of complexity and intelligence, suffices to prove life can appear and proliferate somewhere in the universe. Given the vastness of the universe, vast beyond our capacity to really comprehend, that life exists somewhere suggests beyond doubt that life exists in other places, probably in countless other places.
AllenS said...
Sorry, but there's only us.
But they want to believe . . .
In SF, the 2 paradigms are 1) aliens who threaten us and need to be vanquished, and 2) aliens who are wiser than we are and who seek to instruct or control us.
“Man doth usurp all space, Stares thee, in rock, bush, river, in the face. Never thine eyes behold a tree; 'Tis no sea thou seest in the sea, 'Tis but a disguised humanity. To avoid thy fellow, vain thy plan; All that interests a man, is man.”
-Henry Sutton
There is never a time that Uranus jokes aren’t awesome.
Gort, Klaatu Barada Nikto. . .
I must say that I have never even slightly believed that aliens have visited earth.
Why would they happen to visit right in the time when we have space flight?
Why would they come all this way and then just flit around and screw with us?
It's such a ditsy thing to believe.
Whether there's life somewhere else in the universe is another matter. If I had to bet on whether humans ever have encountered them or ever will encounter them, either by their coming here or our going elsewhere, I would bet no.
When I can’t sleep, my goto is Ancient Aliens on the History Channel. Unless they get just a little too over the top, like an overly cringe inducing episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. In fact, maybe in those episodes? They would have been better off curbing their enthusiasm.
@tim in vermont
I think I accidentally deleted you while trying to delete a duplicate of mine.
I can't restore it, but don't hesitate to redo it yourself. Complete accident.Sorry.
It was such a brilliant comment too! Lost forever in the ether...
It's a scam, when Harry Reid is involved. You just have to figure out the details.
There is never a time that Uranus jokes aren’t awesome.
Except in an office setting where there are fragile women around to be insulted and sexually harassed by your juvenile sense of humor (kidding...I find the jokes funny)
I'll invoke Occam's razor. Which is more probable?
1. Harry Reid funneled some money to one of his rich pals.
2. Aliens have invaded the earth
Free flights for the Reid family and a few other Democrats using private jets at his friend's company. Land purchases for "lab" sites. Could be hundreds of others,
At budget time, in budget-slashing Trump time, the DOD alien life study section releases a video. Hmmm. But I'll tell you what. Put Mueller on it. When Mueller can't find the aliens he can at least indict them for lying to the FBI about whether they have talked to us. THAT will be a public record of their existence.
I hope you don't mean to suggest there may be no life outside the earth's biosphere.
I hope you don't mean to suggest that science includes assertions made without evidence.
Silly me. All of Cookie's comments are assertions made without evidence.
So, the two paradigms in my 10:02 show that, in the human imagination, Aliens are either just like us, or are like god.
Or in Progressive terms, aliens are either like we used to be (bad), or like we aspire to be (good). "Klaatu Barada nikto," indeed.
Ann Althouse said...
@tim in vermont
I think I accidentally deleted you while trying to delete a duplicate of mine.
You won't believe this, but for some time now, including earlier today, for some strange reason when I look out the corner of my eye I repeatedly confuse Tim in VT's avatar (the "Wilson" volleyball from Castaway) with Althouse's profile picture for some reason.
Now there's evidence Althouse does too!
Althouse, when you deleted TIV's comment, did his avatar appear with it?
I'm sorry, Althouse... Althouse, I'm sorry!
Did they have audio? Was it saying: “Get in my belly!” Or was it humming along “I want my baby back baby back baby back baby back baby back baby back ribs...”? Dr Evil has to be behind this!
EDH, same thing happens to me. I am going to change it soon anyway. I have left Vermont permanently now, so it’s time to move on from that handle, I think.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...[Aliens visiting Earth] is such a ditsy thing to believe."
It sure is.
Next, a search for intelligent life inside the blogosphere.
I don't want to be no space alien's cosmic hors d'oeuvre.
The simplest explanation for this program has been alluded to above- funnel government money to a friend, friend refunnels the money to a PAC supporting the politician who got the program into legislation.
Angels don't need Flying Machines. They are spirits. And Biblical angels come and go in Armies of war angels fighting through other angel armies when they are sent to earth to help men in need. Maybe Reid saw that conflict was intensifying. And then along came The Donald accompanied by an Angel named Melania.
Naw, it could not be true...
mork from ork nanu nanu
an Angel named Melania
Maybe, but these extra-universal entities are known for their ability to evade establishment in the very limited (time and space) scientific logical domain where humans live and perceive.
If the only life in the universe is here on Earth, than the universe is a very lonely place.
Why would they happen to visit right in the time when we have space flight?
People who believe in aliens visiting Earth believe it has been happening for thousands of years.
Why would they come all this way and then just flit around and screw with us?
The same reasons we study primitive tribes in South America and chimps in Africa.
In SF, the 2 paradigms are 1) aliens who threaten us and need to be vanquished, and 2) aliens who are wiser than we are and who seek to instruct or control us.
That's why I liked "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." It introduced, at least in a simple way, the concept that they might not communicate like we do.
"Life as we do not know it, " also introduces the idea that they might be nothing like us,
Truly alien life, he argues, might have completely different origins; even Earth has untold numbers of viruses composed entirely of RNA, and scientists have created similar genetic material in laboratories, so who's to say silicon-based life-forms are impossible? After introducing readers to the building blocks of life and the new ways they might be arranged, Ward speculates on what types of microbes we might find on other planets and their satellites. He recommends that future manned space expeditions include paleontologists and biochemists to follow up on suggestive evidence collected by space probes. The science is neatly laid out, and readers willing to follow his daring, scientifically based speculations will find their imaginations spurred.
Again, this book does not assume that intelligent life will be found. It is probable that it will be something else.
Remember that Michael Crichton got his start with "The Andromeda Strain," written when he was a medical student.
>>Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow"
The next line should be "And of course a few million of those public funds made their way into Harry's pocket. That's how a "public servant" goes from poverty to a $10M fortune."
"You won't believe this, but for some time now, including earlier today, for some strange reason when I look out the corner of my eye I repeatedly confuse Tim in VT's avatar (the "Wilson" volleyball from Castaway) with Althouse's profile picture for some reason. Now there's evidence Althouse does too! Althouse, when you deleted TIV's comment, did his avatar appear with it? I'm sorry, Althouse... Althouse, I'm sorry!"
LOL... from both me and Meade.
It's a cookbook!
Over a lifetime in the air, my father saw numerous items like the one in the video. He always claimed to have a banal terrestrial explanation for every one.
Otoh, he was also suspected by various foreign agencies of working for the CIA, so I suppose I should take that into account.
There is a guy at the bar who swears he saw a UFO back in the Seventies. Fast dating movements, strange lights, hovering. I do not doubt he saw a UFO: a UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object, and I believe he saw a Flying Object he could not Identify. But he obviously means alien spaceship, so, for him, it is actually an Identified Flying Object: he has identified it.
It makes for good bar banter from time to time. Uranus jokes, alien anal probes; I was trying to think of something to add to that list but it is those two, mainly. Maybe cattle mutilation gets mentioned, but that is probably because I mention it.
On space aliens I am agnostic. Maybe they are there, maybe not. It doesn't play much of a role in my wonder of the universe. I'm still excited that we landed men on the moon. And disappointed that we pretty much stopped there.
But if a space alien arrived, he could do worse than visiting the bar to learn about human behavior. Pretty much all behaviors happen here at one time or another. And maybe: Mars Needs College Girls.
- james james
I didn't read all the comments so if someone already brought this up I apologize for the redundancy but all this is covered in Fermi's Paradox isn't it? Except for the, "Mars Needs College Girls," part that I'm seeing just above this comment box.
My favorite SF novel, which I was given when a boy, is "Needle," which in includes the concepts that they might, even if intelligent, be very different ad not communicate as we do.
I still have a copy and read it every once in a while. It is, of course, very dated
Blogger Gahrie said...
If the only life in the universe is here on Earth, than the universe is a very lonely place.
Not necessarily. If life exists only on the earth, and human beings have free will, there really isn't anything important happening anywhere else. By making a choice, I am doing something more wonderful than the evolution of a group of galaxies a billion light years across. The matter that makes up the group of galaxies is clockwork. I am not.
If the only life in the universe is here on Earth, than the universe is a very lonely place.
Unless people think that the laws of physics, chemistry are unique to Earth and apply only to the Earth and nowhere else in "this" universe....(there are other universes out there you know), the idea that there cannot be life elsewhere is completely illogical.
Assuming that the mechanics of the universe are universal.....The actions of chemicals and the laws of physics as well as the mathematics of probability actually dictate that at some point there will be "life".
Now....how you want to define life is another issue. Is it only life if it walks, talks and such that we can interact with it on an intellectual level. OR...is it life on the level of slime molds, bacteria, fungi, viruses?
Be it Einstein or a jellyfish, life is life.
I hope you don't mean to suggest there may be no life outside the earth's biosphere.
The meager evidence that does exist points more to that conclusion than to the notion of a universe teeming with life.
1) Planet Earth is around 4.6 billion years old and has been more of less bio-friendly for the last 3.8 billion years. In all that time there is no evidence whatsoever of any form of life not firmly rooted in the same evolutionary tree of descent which includes humans, dinosaurs, sperm whales, and potted petunias (Not again!). This points one and only one origin of life on this planet. Those who advocate for the existence of extraterrestrial life based on arguments of scale (The Universe is so vast...blah, blah) should first account for the absence of a second origin of life on this planet given the vast scale of time involved.
2) There was a time when our solar system was considered to be typical. Current evidence suggests it is not. Though several hundred planetary systems have been discovered only a handful resemble ours. Current research suggests only 20% of "Sun-like" stars have "Earth-like" planets orbiting in the habitable zone. So far zilch evidence of even breathable atmospheres on the few candidate second Earths yet found.
3) The Fermi Paradox is still paradoxical.
4) SETI projects are so far notably shy of results. (It was about 20 years ago when Frank Drake estimated a signal detection within 10 years.)
UFO nuts just can’t grasp how mind-fuckingly vast the galaxy, never mind the universe, is. Sure, there’s life out there. But we’ll be long extinct before anyone ever chances upon us out here in the galactic fringe.
This is one of those areas like climate models and economics where proofs begin with “Assuming that...”
But that video is of something. Something that didn’t come hurtling blindly in from outer space a slave to gravity. Assuming it’s not some kind of joke.
Well , Dingy Harry didn't get all his money from his Senate paychecks. The aliens were obviously sending him money. Probably made from that lucrative anal probing business they been running for years. I think they call it "near space tourism".
Assuming that the mechanics of the universe are universal.....The actions of chemicals and the laws of physics as well as the mathematics of probability actually dictate that at some point there will be "life".
The mathematics of probability cannot be applied to sets of one or fewer members. Find me another life-sustaining planet and then we can talk about probabilities.
"Bell flight fourteen you now can land
Seen you on Aldebaran, safe on the green desert sand
It's so very lonely, you're two thousand light years from home
It's so very lonely, you're two thousand light years from home"
I think they call it "near space tourism".
Considering the little guys' preoccupation with the human posterior it should be called "rear space tourism".
I have no idea what I am suppose to be seeing here. I have concluded it is either (a) a prank or (b) something on the lens/glass. That is all.
It's so very lonely, you're two thousand light years from home...
65, actually.
I read somewhere, maybe here, that based on the probabilities, our planet and it's life development is, even if not unique, likely one of the first to appear and therefore unlikely to be visited before we figure out how to get there first. That said, a planet with less gravity and other features that would develop a life form better adapted to space travel would have a head start. It took us so long just to get off the damned ground.
Also evolution being mutation driven, it's not hard to imagine a life form that took a big shortcut due to a mutation or set of them that produced a much faster development of intelligence.
I still think it would be interesting to test subsurface matter on Mars and, eventually, on Titan.
Mars would be the easiest and I'm a little surprised that it hasn't been done.
"Extremophiles would be the most likely.
For example, analogous deserts of Antarctica are exposed to harmful UV radiation, low temperature, high salt concentration and low mineral concentration. These conditions are similar to those on Mars. Therefore, finding viable microbes at the subsurface of Antarctica suggests that there may be microbes surviving in endolithic communities and living under Martian surface. Moreover, further researches have suggested that it is unlikely that microbes will live on neither the Martian surface nor at shallow depths, but they may be found at depths around 100 meters below the Martian surface.
That might be more difficult to test,.
Find me another life-sustaining planet and then we can talk about probabilities.
I know. Usually I can suspend logic in dreams, but within seconds of waking up, none of it makes enough sense to even be able to think about it anymore. The only statistical evidence we have so far is that SETI hasn’t found anything yet, but that’s like drawing inferences about the number of scorpions in the desert after looking at a liter of sand. Well you know that the desert isn’t 100% paved with scorpions, anyway.
Blogger The Cracker Emcee Activist said...
@ 12:07 And since the universe is expanding the distances are getting greater.
AJ Ford @12:27
My guess it's a plasma. Glowing balls of plasma have been known to appear around seismic activity. We are not now nor have we ever been visited by beings from another planet. The physics preclude it.
We're gonna need a bigger wall.
"when I look out the corner of my eye I repeatedly confuse Tim in VT's avatar (the "Wilson" volleyball from Castaway) with Althouse's profile picture"
Me too.
"This is a [expletive] drone, bro"
"... Althouse's profile picture"
Me too, all the time, but I thought it was just me.
Denying Life exists elsewhere in the Universe demands the proof of a negative report from places we cannot see or find. That factoid that we cannot disprove life exists somewhere else does ZERO to prove that it does exist. Checkmate.
"Look at that thing! It's rotating!"
This can only mean one thing:
Mueller is getting closer.
It seems to me that it's highly unlikely that we're the only intelligent life in the universe. And if other intelligent life is as interested in finding other intelligent life as we are then our little blue ball would be of high interest to them.
This is nothing new.
On January 21, 1967, SAC dispatched US Air Force Captain John Christopher flying an F-104 out of Omaha to intercept an unknown object flying rapidly at high altitude over the continental United States.
Years later he went into therapy. Under hypnosis he told a weird story that his fighter broke up and his body was never retrieved, which, of course, would have been impossible.
He also told another even more bizarre tale...You can see it here.
The physics preclude it.
Hmmm... Not necessarily.
Suppose the existence of an advanced civilization able to send a colonizing expedition to a nearby star requiring about 1000 years of transit time, a speed well below that of light — a technology beyond our current capabilities, but not in violation of classical relativity. Further, suppose that the colony. once established on its new world, after about a thousand years sends out its own colonizing expedition using the same technology — a one thousand year flight to a nearby solar system, followed by one thousand years of consolidation and the dispatch of yet another colonizing expedition, et cetera. Under these constraints, such a civilization could colonize the galaxy in 20 million years. Compared to the age of the galaxy 20 million years is chump change. There are no physics which preclude this scenario. All that is required is the will to do it.
If there was life in, say the Andromeda galaxy; and it was, say, a MILLION years more advanced then us; then we'd notice them in like when? maybe a million and a half years from now?
(assuming our nearest galactic neighbor is about 2.5 million light years from us)
Unless you ASSUME that these inter galactic aliens have faster than light drives, we're Never going to know about them.
If the aliens are local (say; just across town, on the far side of our milky way), AND they're 50,000 years more advanced then us; then we should be able to easily notice them by the time the next ice age has come and gone.
It's just possible that there are amazing things about Physics that we don't know yet.
A part of me simply loves the fact that pilots flying multi-milliion-dollar fighter planes call each other "bro" and "dude" over the radio.
My neighbor across the street not only flies such planes but teaches student pilots to do so, and he burned down half his house last winter by misunderstanding how to use a gas grill.
When we moved into our house it had previously been used as a sort of boardinghouse for student pilots (was rented by someone who then sublet the bedrooms out to the kids), none of whom could evidently figure out how to change the high-end lightbulbs in the kitchen (they were all burned out) and let the dead batteries sit in the garage door opener so long that they corroded it out and it had to be replaced.
I don't understand how you have to be some kind of sooperjenyus to become a fighter pilot.
(that said, yes smart people have gas grill accidents and smart people are too lazy to change lightbulbs...and yet...it amuses me to observe "and we trust these guys with jets that cost dozens of millions of dollars")
"when I look out the corner of my eye I repeatedly confuse Tim in VT's avatar (the "Wilson" volleyball from Castaway) with Althouse's profile picture"
Ditto.
My fighter pilot cousin once told me that the only difference between a fighter pilot and a serial killer is the answer to one question on a multiple-choice personality test.
"when I look out the corner of my eye I repeatedly confuse Tim in VT's avatar (the "Wilson" volleyball from Castaway) with Althouse's profile picture"
MeToo, to coin a phrase.
The best reason for believing we are not being visited is that we are 25 trillion miles from the next closest solar system, and who knows how miles many from the next closest solar system with life. But, if we are being visited, it would make sense that they started after we developed jet travel and space flight, if our technological development was being monitored, or maybe before that we just weren’t able to record the visitors on video.
Unless you ASSUME that these inter galactic aliens have faster than light drives, we're Never going to know about them.
That's why the book "Contact" which was pretty good, aside from the politics, postulated worm holes.
Even approaching C will result in some pretty serious effects on the inhabitants of such an object,
There is a cable show called "Strange Evidence" that examines strange things caught on video surveillance cameras. Many you can figure out right away, but some seem unexplainable. Until one of their worldwide panel of experts offers an explanation, usually with models and demonstrations. Last week they had long footage from a Chilean military helicopter of a UFO. That one turned out to be a combination of things--false readings from the sensors of the distance to the object (explaining why ground radar didn't pick it up), atmospheric distortion and perspective error. They were seeing commercial aircraft around a major airport, miles away.
should first account for the absence of a second origin of life on this planet given the vast scale of time involved.
Is there proof of absence of a second origin? How do you know that there has not been multiple instances of life beginning and being snuffed out? 4 Billion years is not all that vast either.
Life forms, such as we, are based upon is primarily Carbon based,among some other common (to earth) elements. There are also existing and extinct forms of life that require sulphur and arsenic to survive. That some of those extinct or unknown forms of life (most likely bacteria or microscopic) do not exist today or have not yet been found in the fossil, does not preclude a single origin of life.
This finding of an alternative biochemistry makeup will alter biology textbooks and expand the scope of the search for life beyond Earth. The research is published in this week's edition of Science Express.
Carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur are the six basic building blocks of all known forms of life on Earth. Phosphorus is part of the chemical backbone of DNA and RNA, the structures that carry genetic instructions for life, and is considered an essential element for all living cells.
Phosphorus is a central component of the energy-carrying molecule in all cells (adenosine triphosphate) and also the phospholipids that form all cell membranes. Arsenic, which is chemically similar to phosphorus, is poisonous for most life on Earth. Arsenic disrupts metabolic pathways because chemically it behaves similarly to phosphate.
"We know that some microbes can breathe arsenic, but what we've found is a microbe doing something new -- building parts of itself out of arsenic," Arsenic life NASA This is on our Earth.
Given enough time, who can say that an arsenic building life form could not qualify as a second origin instead of an interesting anomaly. Given conditions on another planet this could be the dominant life form and WE are the weird life forms.
Just because we haven't evidence on THIS Earth of such alternative types of life, doesn't preclude it from existing on other planets and in other parts of this Universe.
Note: I am not specifically discussing "intelligent" life, but life in general. Whether there is "intelligent" life or even that we would recognize it if it slapped us upside the head is another issue.
To assume that WE are the only life in the Solar System or in the Universe requires a huge amount of Hubris and/or a very small ability to imagine. Don't think small. Think BIG.
That some of those extinct or unknown forms of life (most likely bacteria or microscopic) do not exist today or have not yet been found in the fossil, does not preclude a single origin of life.>
Edit: Does not mean that there is a only single origin of life.
Maybe it's not aliens.
Maybe this is what Sasquatch does most of the time. He only hikes in the mountains when he's on vacation, which is why he's so rarely seen there.
OK, Now that I have had my “me too” moment, I will repent by changing my avatar.
Michael K said...
Even approaching C will result in some pretty serious effects on the inhabitants of such an object,
Heh, no it wouldn't.
We're already moving faster than the speed of light. It's all relative.
Dust Bunny ...
"We know that some microbes can breathe arsenic, but what we've found is a microbe doing something new -- building parts of itself out of arsenic," Arsenic life NASA This is on our Earth.
"Studies refute arsenic bug claim"
My fighter pilot cousin once told me that the only difference between a fighter pilot and a serial killer is the answer to one question on a multiple-choice personality test.
In World War II the kills by fighters were made by 25% of the pilots. The rest were not shooting or shooting and missing.
It's probably easier now since you are miles away when that missile launches.
SLA Marshall found the same thing in infantry combat, A few guys did the killing.
The high and mighty can so easily be brought down by accusations of extremophilia.
Or panspermia.
I'd like to hear a plausible explanation for what that thing they're tracking could be, other than some sort of intelligently guided or programmed flying mechanism.
If we don't get a plausible explanation, and quick, the only thing we can do is assume it's an intelligently guided or programmed flying mechanism.
Oh, and SLA Marshall's "Men Against Fire" theory has been thoroughly refuted.
"I'd like to hear a plausible explanation"
The Russians were meddling.
Most refutations are made by 25% of theoreticians.
Robert Cook said...
I'd like to hear a plausible explanation for what that thing they're tracking could be, other than some sort of intelligently guided or programmed flying mechanism.
Ball lightning.
"Ball lightning"
I said "plausible" explanation.
90% of people fired for sexual harassment claimed to have seen ball lightning.
Oh, and SLA Marshall's "Men Against Fire" theory has been thoroughly refuted.
A lot of it has been but the figures on the percent actually shooting has other evidence,
I read a theory, perhaps here, that it's highly likely that other intelligent life has existed, does exist, and will exist in the universe, but because intelligent life tends to extinguish itself within a relatively short amount of time, the likelyhood of two intelligent species making contact with each other across the time and distance obstacles is virtually zero.
Ball lightning is no defense against a sexual harassment charge.
Questor.
Thereare a lot of"supposes", "what ifs" and "Just mights" to make any sense.
Yes. Anything is possible. Not everything is probable.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
"Ball lightning"
I said "plausible" explanation.
Charged plasma is the only logical explanation. The tell is the description of the ocean surface bubbling.
We are nor being visited by beings from another planetary system. As I said. The physics is the same throughout the universe. That makes it highly improbable that we are being visited from other worlds.
"We are nor being visited by beings from another planetary system."
Speak for yourself. Maybe Cook IS being visited by space folk.
Just playing devil's advocate here:
"Why would they happen to visit right in the time when we have space flight?"
Anecdotal evidence and 'UFO lore' would say that they have been visiting us for a very long time. It was only when we began to develop space flight for ourselves that we could really even conceive of 'visitors from outer space'. The seeming coincidence is an illusion based on our own limited and self-centered point of view.
"Why would they come all this way and then just flit around and screw with us?"
I'll posit a few possible reasons:
1. We're a 'protected species' and direct verifiable confrontation is a no-no. Kind of like the Galapagos islands.
2. A more conspiratorial take would be that an agreement was reached with some aspect of our government. The aliens agree to stay mostly out of site in order to help the government save face by not having to admit that there's a foreign power out there with technology that we are utterly powerless against. If that were true and people found out, it could de-stabilize government control and also de-stabilize society as people 'give up' on helping themselves and instead wait for our 'magic space brothers' to fix everything for us. This kind of goes back to the 'protected species' or planetary quarantine idea.
3. Did I say 'a few'? Sorry, should have said a couple!
Oh shit! Earthlings!
Go go go go go!
"I read a theory, perhaps here, that it's highly likely that other intelligent life has existed, does exist, and will exist in the universe, but because intelligent life tends to extinguish itself within a relatively short amount of time, the likelyhood of two intelligent species making contact with each other across the time and distance obstacles is virtually zero."
THIS!
"I read a theory..."
I doubt it.
Continuing Rt1's idea, maybe we are 'quarantined' as a race until a certain threshold is crossed, indicating that we are viable for long term survival. The danger of propping up and supplying star-faring technology to a still suicidal/homicidal race is too great. Even letting them know for certain that such things could be done would be dangerous.
Earth
Come for the ball lightning
Stay for the flitting and screwing
"Anecdotal evidence and 'UFO lore' would say that they have been visiting us for a very long time."
Anecdotal evidence and "spirit lore" says that the spirits have been visiting us for a very long time.
Also the faery. Lots of parallels between people abducted by aliens and people abducted by the faery. Lost time, being transported from place to place in the wink of an eye, etc.
If you believe that this means the faery are really space aliens, you lack imagination. By which I mean, perhaps both aliens and faery are historically acceptable ways to describe a third phonomena.
What do you think steers ball lighting, Robt. Cook? What do you think gives ball lighting its shape and appearance?
"In World War II the kills by fighters were made by 25% of the pilots. The rest were not shooting or shooting and missing."
In the European theater, an American fighter pilot (not a Brit fighter pilot, far as I know) would be awarded a kill for shooting down an unarmed German trainer. The idea was that the Germans had a far smaller pool of potential fighter pilots than the US, so get them before they are trained.
The consequence was that the Germans either could not train new pilots or their pilots were killed in training.
Not everything is probable.
You missed the point, evidently.
Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...
. . .
"Is there proof of absence of a second origin? How do you know that there has not been multiple instances of life beginning and being snuffed out? 4 Billion years is not all that vast either."
In geology I was taught that 800 M year ago or so, there was something called the "oxygen disaster." Before that time there was little oxygen in the earth's atmosphere, and the major life form was cyanic bacteria living in the sea. The oxygen disaster killed off the cyanic bacteria & oxygen neutral or oxygen breathing bacteria began to predominate. This was studied in geolgy because it explained the iron deposits geologists love to find -- the cyanic bacteria swept the oceans of iron (can't remember how) and allowed it to become concentrated enough to mine in historical times.
The Germans also did not have limits to missions and there was very little R&R.
The Japanese lost their carrier pilots at Midway and the training system they had was not up to training those replacements.
I once commented at a faculty meeting that the greatest educational institution in our history was the US Army. It trained 200,000 pilots in WWII. A leftist female professor objected but it is still true.
The Navy lost far fewer than they expected and stopped training in 1944. Alvin Kernan had been returned to the UD for pilot training but it was cancelled.
"Ball lightning is no defense against a sexual harassment charge."
Perhaps not, but it is usually the goal.
Ahhhhh.... Necromongers!
Man, the Times must be getting hard-up for eyeballs.
Was Bat Boy inside and can he tell stories of the Age Of Aquarius?
"Speak for yourself. Maybe Cook IS being visited by space folk."
Ahem...maybe I am space folk, here setting up plans for the coming invasion...er, "migration."
"Most likely" has little meaning in a situation where we have a sample size of only one, and have no idea what the real likelihood is of anything, but nevertheless - what seems most likely is that life will turn out to be quite common throughout the universe, and that virtually all of it will be primitive one-celled slime of some sort. There are excellent reasons to believe that intelligent life with a technological civilization is *extremely* rare. Most of those reasons have to do with the necessity that it have billions of years of relatively stable planetary conditions to evolve. It apparently takes billions of years of stability to even get to Eukaryotes, fer chrissakes. As in, it would be a huge shock to even discover something as advanced as mushrooms, let alone Marvin the Martian and his Explosive Space Modulator.
The scale of the universe argues that even if ridiculously rare, such intelligent life is likely to exist somewhere, but then that same scale works against us if our real interest is in having some kind of meaningful contact with it. If the nearest such civilization is in the Andromeda galaxy, for example, well then it may as well not exist at all, because we're very unlikely to even find out it's there, let alone communicate with it.
Ahem...maybe I am space folk, here setting up plans for the coming invasion...er, "migration."
That would explain a lot, like how you don't understand life on Earth, and do t seem to like it much.;)
This airplane is probably a two seat F-18, we are hearing the conversation between the pilot and backseat Flight Officer.
"That would explain a lot, like how you don't understand life on Earth...."
We understand it all too well, stupid human! That's why we must cleanse the universe of your kind!
I remember viewing a film from the Project Blue Book at a drive-in back in the fifties that showed un-explained phenomena and thinking well yes UFOs but it was quickly removed from public viewing and little said about it in public, but of course this current study is just a continuation of Blue Book with the same un-explained results.
We understand it all too well, stupid human! That's why we must cleanse the universe of your kind!
I knew it was you, Kang!
Or is it Kodos?
Boy, this explains a lot.
We have melded; we are KangDos. (But you can call us "Michelle.")
Quaestor said...
Not everything is probable.
You missed the point, evidently.
Won't be the first time, but your right. I think I got those backwards.
For all our claims and suppositions there is no objective scientific proof. So far every "incident" can be explained as a hoax or natural phenomenon.
"So far every 'incident' can be explained as a hoax or natural phenomenon."
Every incident? The phenomenon seen in the video hasn't been explained. It may not be an extraterrestrial craft, but what it is hasn't been established.There are other as yet unexplained sightings.
If you want to say "every incident can be passed off (or disregarded) as a hoax or natural phenomenon," you would be more accurate.
(And why the quote marks around "incident?" Even if most or all of the incidents are phenomena other than extraterrestrial craft, they are still actual incidents in which objects seen in the sky are puzzling to viewers on the ground.)
Yes, Robert every one.
Provide me or anyone else for that matter with objective scientific proof that we are being visited by beings from another solar system in advanced space craft.
I'll save you some trouble. There isn't any.
"Yes, Robert every one.
Provide me or anyone else for that matter with objective scientific proof that we are being visited by beings from another solar system in advanced space craft.
I'll save you some trouble. There isn't any."
I'm not asserting this or any other particular incident involves alien visitation and that's not what I'm disputing about your comment. None of the incidents may be extraterrestrial craft, but this doesn't mean they have all been satisfactorily explained, which is what you asserted. If you look at the video presented and simply say, "It's a hoax or natural phenomenon," it doesn't explain it in the least, or answer the questions such a dismissal raises: What kind of natural phenomenon? What kind of hoax? How was the hoax perpetrated? Who could have perpetrated it? etc.
Until such incidents can be satisfactorily explained, no one can say for sure what they're not.
OK Robert. Fair enough, And yes. There is a million dollars for anyone who can prove we are being visited by extra terrestrials. When investigated this incident will turn out to be a natural phenomena.
We are not now nor have we ever been visited by alien space ships. No matter how much others want it to be true.
The answer about what this is, is already given in the comments of the pilots in the video. "It's an L&S". Search the internet for L&S spacecraft and LS-1300LL. See also http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/LS-1300
Basically just a satellite.
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