November 4, 2017

"JFK files: FBI documents allege Martin Luther King Jr. had secret lovechild, orgies."

The Sacramento Bee reports.

The material is less salacious than it seemed when it wasn't revealed. The man had a longstanding affair and other sex outside of marriage, it is said. And he "enjoy[ed] the abnormal by engaging in group sexual orgies."

Amazing how little it matters now... other than to make me ask Where is this person? about the "love child."

And it's interesting that one of the lovers was, allegedly, Joan Baez.

77 comments:

AReasonableMan said...

Where is this person? about the "love child."

A question that should be prefaced by, 'Is any of this true?'.

Otto said...

Take a rest from wallowing in shit.

Hagar said...

Given the reputation of the agency whence these rumors come, file under "to be verified."

Narayanan Subramanian said...

Can this be called ... King Dossier

Mark said...

Meanwhile, the sexually-depraved, tyrannical racist bigot J. Edgar Hoover was all too eager to falsely slime people with over-exaggerations or outright fictions.

The FBI files from back then are about as trustworthy as they were under Comey.

Richard said...

Tear down those statues of MLK!

Mark said...

Tear down monuments to the deviant, power mad, hatemonger J. Edgar Hoover and his enabler Bobby Kennedy.

mockturtle said...

Hoover had a deep animosity toward MLK. I don't trust the 'files'. Yes, I believe he was adulterous but orgies? It would seem there is a concerted effort to somehow dilute/excuse the current sex scandals by digging up dirt on dead folk who can't defend themselves against the allegations.

The surest way to opprobrium is to accuse someone of sex orgies. Remember the allegations by the DoJ against David Koresh? Pedophilia? They had zero evidence of that but they knew they could incite the public's wrath against the Waco compound and clear the way for the deadly raid.

Sebastian said...

Old news, no? At least the sex. The love child, that's a new one to me. You'd think, with the King family penchant for monetizing his legacy, any other descendants would have gotten in on the act by now.

Ann Althouse said...

"A question that should be prefaced by, 'Is any of this true?'."

It's a question that already asks your question. I'm saying: If there is such a person, where is he/she? I think the son or daughter of MLK would be aware of his/her status and would have come forward in some way long ago. Without the evidence, I regard the assertion as untrue.

See why I asked the question my way?

Unknown said...

It’s amazing how Althouse posts this filth, while consistently not mentioning Trump’s sexual abuse of minors and the girls that accused him of it. A new low for the Althouse blog.

Unknown said...

“Sexual-Assault Allegations
Where and when: Various, 1970s-2005

The dirt: Even before the release of a 2005 video in which he boasted about sexually assaulting women—“Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything,” he said, as well as “I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything”—there’s a long line of allegations against Trump. Jill Harth says Trump assaulted her in the 1990s. Trump’s ex-wife Ivana Trump once suggested he had raped her, though she has since recanted her story. Former Miss Utah Temple Taggart said he kissed her on the lips inappropriately. But since the release, more women have come forward. Two told The New York Times that Trump had assaulted them, one saying he tried to put his hand up her skirt on a flight in the 1970s and another saying he forcibly kissed her. A Florida woman says Trump groped her. A former People reporter recounted an alleged assault at his Mar-a-Lago debate, and says he told her, “You know we’re going to have an affair, don’t you?” Several former teen pageant contestants said Trump walked in on them while they were naked or partially dressed.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-scandals/474726/

D said...

It was a different time. There were no climate models identifying the need to reduce your orgying footprint.

jwl said...

I just read this on Tom Holland's twitter feed, humanity has long fixation with orgies:

“Drunken orgies, incest, & horrid rituals involving a tethered dog” - Caecilius Natalis on Christianity

David said...

"If there is such a person, where is he/she? I think the son or daughter of MLK would be aware of his/her status and would have come forward in some way long ago."

Strom Thurmond's daughter did not do this. I don't recall how it came out but for decades she was silent, even though (because?) he was regularly in touch with her and involved in her life.

You never know what people will choose to reveal or hide.

My question is, why is a memo about MLK from 1968 in the Kennedy assassination files in the first place?

Unknown said...

“Update, 2 November, 6.12pm ET: Jane Doe cancelled the press conference citing "great fear" after receiving "terrible threats", per attorney Lisa Bloom.

The woman who accused Donald Trump of child sex abuse is expected to speak out for the first time since filing a lawsuit against the Republican presidential nominee.

Mr Trump has faced numerous sexual assault allegations following the release of audio that captured him bragging about groping and kissing women without their consent. In the last month of his presidential campaign, Mr Trump was accused of sexual misconduct by nearly a dozen women.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-child-rape-victim-speaks-out-13-year-old-jane-doe-accusations-allegations-sexual-a7394356.html

Pinandpuller said...

Was JFK mad he didn't get invited to the orgies? Was he trying to avoid cross pollination?

walter said...

But..TRUUUUUMP!

Unknown said...

I hate this blog so much I just can't stay away.

Unknown said...

I love being here to point out the inconsistencies and the rank hypocrisy of the Trumpists who inhabit this blog.

rhhardin said...

Joan Baez played on my lute for a while, in 1960.

William said...

I read Neil Gabler's bio of Walter Winchell. Hoover used to leak information to Winchell about the wrongdoings of the America Firsters and the German-American Bund. Some of this information was obtained by "black bag jobs", i.e. break-ins. Winchell was universally praised and celebrated for breaking these stories. Later on, Hoover tried the same m.o. with Winchell for the Communist Party. That was the beginning of the end for Winchell.......The FBI was always politicized. Perhaps Mark Felt didn't leak harmful info on Richard Nixon because he was solely interested in truth and justice. I'm pretty sure that if there were any negative stories about Hilary being leaked by the FBI we would realize how the FBI was staffed with fascists.

Fabi said...

"I love being here to point out the inconsistencies..."

We know you're virtue signaling -- you don't have to remind us.

William said...

During his lifetime, Hoover was, for the most part, revered and respected. He didn't really hit the skids until after his death. MLK was respected but criticized during his lifetime. He didn't really reach full sainthood until after his assassination. I think posterity has got this one right, but the trouble with posterity is that you never live long enough to enjoy it.........If JFK can survive all those scandals, this shouldn't be any kind of problem for MLK.

Earnest Prole said...

And it's interesting that one of the lovers was, allegedly, Joan Baez.

If you knew anything about Joan Baez, you'd know this is about as likely as Russian hookers urinating on Donald Trump.

William said...

If,at some time in your life, you were sexually mistreated by Bill Clinton, any of the Kennedys, or MLK, my advice to you would be to shut up. The game isn't worth the candle. It's now ok to complain about mistreatment by Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein, but not so long ago, such complaints would not have been tolerated against these blameless men. If you have any cause for complaint against Donald Trump or, for that matter, any Republican run--do not walk--to the nearest news outlet. You will be celebrated as Joan of Arc.

D said...

...played your lute you say, hmmm...

Rhhardins my name, and I once had my own damn plane
Til no more stewardesses came,
And the dogs needed walked again
Dont matter if youre 65
When the grass is long, you get out your scythe
I watch Dvds, and the plots I will tell,
That is, if its one I can remember oh so well...

FullMoon said...

"If there is such a person, where is he/she? I think the son or daughter of MLK would be aware of his/her status and would have come forward in some way long ago."

Why? If they even are aware of the supposed MLK connection, they may not believe it. They may not want to be publicly known. They may assume the family would deny it and embarrass them. They may have been raised by a "father" and do not want to hurt or embarrass him.


Earnest Prole said...

Speaking of the term love child, remember Diana Ross’ searing take:

You think that I don't feel love
But what I feel for you is real love
In other's eyes I see reflected
A hurt, scorned, rejected

Love child — never meant to be
Love child — born in poverty
Love child — never meant to be
Love child — take a look at me

I started my life in an old, cold, run-down tenement slum
My father left, he never even married mom
I shared the guilt my mama knew
So afraid that others knew I had no name

This love we're contemplating
Is worth the pain of waiting
We'll only end up hating
The child we maybe creating

Love child — never meant to be
Love child — (scorned by) society
Love child — always second best
Love child — different from the rest

I started school, in a worn, torn dress that somebody threw out
I knew the way it felt, to always live in doubt
To be without the simple things
So afraid my friends would see the guilt in me

Don't think that I don't need you
Don't think I don't wanna please you
No child of mine 'll be bearing
The name of shame I've been wearing

Love child, love child, never quite as good
Afraid, ashamed, misunderstood

But I'll always love you
I'll always love you

William said...

Didn't Dylan and Baez have a thing. I just hope she wasn't cheating on him with MLK. That would be scandalous.

mockturtle said...

I just read this on Tom Holland's twitter feed, humanity has long fixation with orgies:

“Drunken orgies, incest, & horrid rituals involving a tethered dog” - Caecilius Natalis on Christianity


Yes, and the RCC used similar accusations against the Waldensian and Albigensian sects as well.

Oso Negro said...

Happy Martin Luther the King Day! Get your freak on!

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Hey, fake Unknown, with blogger id ending in 05650-

Not cool. If you disagree with what Unknown posts, then give a reasoned reply. Or at least come up with a clever ad hominem attack. This fake posting as someone else to put words in their mouth is dishonest.

Not my blog. If it was, that would be an instant lifetime ban.

Michael K said...

"A new low for the Althouse blog."

Says the idiot who believes all the Dossier.

YoungHegelian said...

@Sebastian,

Old news, no? At least the sex. The love child, that's a new one to me. You'd think, with the King family penchant for monetizing his legacy, any other descendants would have gotten in on the act by now.

LBJ's love-child keeps a very low profile. The last photo I saw of him years ago (he now must be in his late 60s or early 70s), he looked exactly like a slightly thinner version of LBJ.

rcocean said...

Hoover was providing information on MLK's sexual promiscuity to JFK and Jackie O.
Its one reason why Jackie O is so critical of MLK in her post-assassination talks with Arthur Schlesinger.

I have no idea whether MLK had a "love child" but its been well known for years that MLK liked the ladies and orgies. Its also well known, and bragged about by the CPUSA that several of his closest associates were Communists.

One more reason he attracted the attention of Hoover AND RFK AND LBJ.

rcocean said...

One of the silliest things in my lifetime has been the Canonization of MLK.

He was a great civil rights leader, but he wasn't a saint.

Char Char Binks said...

The number one goal of the civil rights movement was black access to white vag. Blacks have been on a quest for the Golden Pussy ever since.

Mark said...

The number one goal of the civil rights movement was black access to white vag. Blacks have been on a quest for the Golden Pussy ever since.

And people claim that there is no racism today.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

David said...

My question is, why is a memo about MLK from 1968 in the Kennedy assassination files in the first place?

Maybe MLK was the shooter on the Grassy Knoll?

Luke Lea said...

So orgies are ok now?

mockturtle said...

Hoover was providing information on MLK's sexual promiscuity to JFK and Jackie O.
Its one reason why Jackie O is so critical of MLK in her post-assassination talks with Arthur Schlesinger.


Seriously?! Are you suggesting that Jackie didn't know about her husband? She wasn't terribly bright but I can't believe she was that stupid.

Patrick said...

Did the miss this nugget from the JFK files release?

Hitler WWII 'escape' investigated by the CIA, bombshell document reveals
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2017/11/02/hitler-wwii-escape-investigated-by-cia-bombshell-document-reveals.html

Mark said...

What we did not know for certain before this past election was just exactly how deep and extensive disinformation operations have been in elements of our government and political system.

At least (most) of the Soviet people knew that nothing could be trusted, but the U.S. has been idiot enough to actually believe a lot of the BS that our own Pravda media and despotic government have been.

Bitch and moan and whine and whine and whine all you want about Trump -- it was his election that thrust all of that into the light of day.

buwaya said...

MLK was necessary as an official symbol, or perhaps an element of civic religion, a saint, martyr or demigod.

It is, or was, required to invoke MLK as a shorthand sort of palliative for black anger and white guilt.

It is one of those fundamental problems that can never be resolved, so it requires an element of civic religion to mask it.

mockturtle said...

Mark@4:36: Agree 100%. I would also credit Wikileaks to some extent.

The Godfather said...

MLK "was a great civil rights leader, but he wasn't a saint." Many saints, in fact, were sinners. My favorite is the "good thief" who was crucified with Jesus. As he was dying on the cross for his crimes, he acknowledged Jesus as one who has "done nothing wrong”, and said “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” The good thief is now known in the RCC as St. Dismas.

Personally, I don't have any need to beatify MLK. The man who said that his children should be judged for the content of their character not the color of their skin is an example to men and women of good will, and a corrective to others. And I have no doubt that he is with Jesus in paradise, orgies or not.

mockturtle said...

Many saints, in fact, were sinners.

Yes, we are all sinners. Some of us are saved by grace.

SDaly said...

I guess you're very jaded to think that orgies, and hiring prostitutes to perform sex acts on tables for the guests viewing is not salacious. More interesting, though, is the memo where his lawyer (who is presumed to have written his speeches) warn people about letting MLK speak unless very well prepared ahead of time because he was not a great thinker. Most likely true of a lot of public figures.

rcocean said...

"Seriously?! Are you suggesting that Jackie didn't know about her husband? She wasn't terribly bright but I can't believe she was that stupid"

I'm just relaying what Jackie O she said about MLK to Schlesinger in 1964 taped discussions. I recommend listening to them, they're quite fascinating.

I'm sure Jackie O, knew JFK was "fooling around" but sexual perversion and orgies seem to have been off JFK's menu. For example, he only boinked his white house assistant when Jackie was out of town. He was quite the Gentleman.

rcocean said...

"So orgies are ok now?"

Yep, especially when done by the Clergy.

rcocean said...

One more thing, Hoover was giving all this info on Rev. King to RFK, JFK, and later Ramsey Clark, and LBJ.

And they didn't put a stop to it. Instead they approved the FBI continuing its wiretaps of MLK.

But somehow, its only "right-wing, nazi, fascist" Hoover that gets blamed.

LOL!

Clyde said...

I hope that all of that extracurricular sex MLK was allegedly having was consensual. I'd hate to lose a holiday if he suddenly got Weinsteined. Not to mention that there would be riots in certain communities if that happened, and people kneeling in protest.

mockturtle said...

I'd hate to lose a holiday if he suddenly got Weinsteined.

Here in AZ, MLK's birthday is not observed [except by federal agencies]. And no daylight savings time, either.

mockturtle said...

OK, I confess. I've never been to an orgy. What is involved? Is it the same as a 'group grope'? Do people have sex with more than one person at a time? About the only reference I have is what is shown in old movies about the ancient Romans and that's a bit vague.

EMyrt said...

If you've ever been to an orgy, you would know that they are much drearier affairs than the salacious fantasies about them.

EMyrt said...

mockturtle

The Orgy Room was a standard feature in heterosexual swing clubs of the 70s & 80s. It generally contained a large play space with multiple contiguous mattresses. The usual rules (which varied from club to club) were that anyone who joined the orgy was open to sexual contact with anyone else in the orgy room. This generally meant a real shortage of women, and a buncha guys standing around jerking off.

One variant was that individual participants could say yes or no to particular other participants or acts (e.g., no anal). Those orgies attracted more women, but there were always more men, mostly watching and jacking off, since there were never enough women to reach parity (and this in couples clubs that strictly kept a 1:1 sex ratio overall!).

Even under orgy circumstances, men and women approach sex very differently.

I understand from second hand reports that the orgy thing went off better in gay clubs, but I was not qualified to do that field work.
Hope that helps.

AReasonableMan said...

Unknown said...
It’s amazing how Althouse posts this filth, while consistently not mentioning Trump’s sexual abuse of minors and the girls that accused him of it. A new low for the Althouse blog.


Unknown has a point here. Althouse repeats a salacious rumor that she claims not to believe herself. So she is effectively peddling bullshit in order to besmirch the reputation of a dead man. Genuinely disgraceful.

grackle said...

Didn't Dylan and Baez have a thing.

Dylan fucked her for awhile and used her as his entry point in the music scene but ditched her when she began trying to use his concerts for her politics. Dylan was never an ideologue. As soon as a poet becomes political the art suffers; Dylan seemed to understand this basic truth.

mockturtle said...

Thank you, Emyrt. Sounds a little like the gay bathhouse scenes that Randy Shilts described in And the Band Played On. Sounds pretty depraved but I guess that's the point. I know I wouldn't have liked it. Nor would I have liked swingers clubs and have never really understood why anyone would. What kind of person wants to see their spouse have sex with someone else?

mockturtle said...

Grackle explains: As soon as a poet becomes political the art suffers; Dylan seemed to understand this basic truth.

Yes, I'll give him that.

rcocean said...

"It’s amazing how Althouse posts this filth, while consistently not mentioning Trump’s sexual abuse of minors and the girls that accused him of it. A new low for the Althouse blog."

Hyperbole - the mating call of the Left-wing troll.

Surprised you didn't get more customers. Guess they're on the other threads.

AReasonableMan said...

rcocean said...
"It’s amazing how Althouse posts this filth, while consistently not mentioning Trump’s sexual abuse of minors and the girls that accused him of it. A new low for the Althouse blog."

Hyperbole


No, Althouse is actually behaving badly here, posting in bad faith. She admits that she doesn't believe the slander but promulgates it nonetheless.

EMyrt said...

mockturtle,

You're welcome.

Swinging works best where both members of a couple are extremely secure with each other and extraordinarily low in jealousy.

Most couples had elaborate and idiosyncratic rules for themselves, such as not swapping with an unmarried couple.

The biggest takeaway from that fieldwork was that sex requires rules and rules will emerge in the social sexual scene.

mockturtle said...

Swinging works best where both members of a couple are extremely secure with each other and extraordinarily low in jealousy.

I should think, rather, that they simply don't give a shit. :-(

Do the men all wear condoms? I hope?

Lyle Smith said...

ARM,

You peddle bullshit about living people everyday. That's even worse. And everyone knows MLK was an adulterer similar to the Kennedy's and Lyndon Johnson. The horror!

rcocean said...

Orgies are rather pathetic.

But different strokes, eh?

rcocean said...

Althouse is actually behaving badly here, posting in bad faith.

Magical thinking. Can you see inside her head? Read her thoughts?

Sads.


gadfly said...

On CNN , Anderson Cooper announced the King document discovery by declaring the FBI document containing never-before-seen information about Martin Luther King to be "explosive and unsubstantiated" with "no way of corroborating" the allegations regarding MLK's extra marital affairs and other sexual activites, as well as ties to alleged communists, would if true, have been devastating To Reverend King and his movement.

Apparently, the cable news network has not yet learned to Google these allegations. They would soon have found many of these details in the writings of David J. Garrows, "Bearing the Cross, Martin Luther King and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference." Ralph Abernathy, whom the NY Times called "Dr. King's best friend, found it necessary in his book "And The Walls Came Tumbling Down" to describe King's sexual escapades with two women during the night before MLK was assassinated in Memphis.

As early as March 23, 1957, long before the FBI surveillance of King had begun, the Pittsburgh Courier, one of the nation's leading black newspapers at that time, warned ominously that "a prominent minister in the Deep South, a man who has been making the headlines recently in his fight for civil rights, had better watch his step." Detectives hired by his opponents were hoping "to create a scandal by catching the preacher in a hotel room with a woman other than his wife, during one of his visits to a Northern city." No one in King's inner circle likely had any doubt as to whom the Courier referred.

gadfly said...

JAN. 6, 1964, WAS A LONG DAY FOR Martin Luther King Jr. He spent the morning seated in the reserved section of the Supreme Court, listening as lawyers argued New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, a landmark case rising out of King's crusade against segregation in Alabama. The minister was something of an honored guest: Justice Arthur Goldberg quietly sent down a copy of King's account of the Montgomery bus boycott, "Stride Toward Freedom," asking for an autograph. That night King retired to his room at the Willard Hotel. There FBI bugs reportedly picked up 14 hours of party chatter, the clinking of glasses and the sounds of illicit sex--including King's cries of "I'm f---ing for God" and "I'm not a Negro tonight!"

Newsweek; U.S. Edition - January 19, 1998

AReasonableMan said...

rcocean said...
Magical thinking. Can you see inside her head? Read her thoughts?


Moron, she wrote that she didn't believe the story. Reading comprehension not a strength?

Shane said...

Joan Baez was apparently very friendly.
Dylan.
John and Paul apparently in the same cabana in Miami in February 1964.
MLK.

dreams said...

So what, I can remember reading about the FBI snooping on him and his lovers and showing the newspaper article to my fellow co-workers back before he was killed.

Bill R said...

"...one of the lovers was, allegedly, Joan Baez."

Of COURSE it was.

mockturtle said...

That night King retired to his room at the Willard Hotel. There FBI bugs reportedly picked up 14 hours of party chatter, the clinking of glasses and the sounds of illicit sex--including King's cries of "I'm f---ing for God" and "I'm not a Negro tonight!"

While I don't doubt King's philandering, this sounds like bullshit. And I trust the FBI about as much as I trust Newsweek.

dave said...

Lies ! It’s all lies they want to dirty his name after this viral video leaked out and the real reason the US Government killed him , https://youtu.be/-Doi_U0f8OA

Bad Lieutenant said...

Isn't this a case of whether to print the facts or the legend?